♪ opening music ♪ ♪ ♪ Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

This week with Congress on spring break, we catch up with two members from our congressional delegation, Congressman Jim Clyburn and Congresswoman Nancy Mace.

I started off by asking Congressman Clyburn about the disaster at the Port of Baltimore, where a cargo ship took out the Francis Scott Key Bridge on Tuesday and what effect this might have on South Carolina.

Clyburn> Well, I have not heard from anybody... the office may have.

But tomorrow I will be in the Lowcountry and on Friday, I will be in the Charleston area.

I do believe that the designs, as far as a new bridge in Charleston is concerned, we'll be okay.

I don't know if you can design anything to withstand what I understand to be a ship weighing 2 million pounds That's a lot to ask one structure to withstand.

The problem is, is we don't know exactly what caused this, and that would not venture to find one way or the other.

They are going to do an extensive investigation.

They have now located what would be tantamount to the black box on the ship.

And maybe that will tell them something.

We all do know that the ship did have a local navigator on board, and that navigator did contact authorities with a mayday.

And that is what limited the casualties.

And it seemed as if the only casualties were people who were working on the bridge with all the traffic that would have ordinarily been going across that bridge was stopped in time.

So this tragedy was seen as it was developing.

And I suspect you would have to say the people on that ship did a good job.

Gavin> Yes, indeed, sir.

President Joe Biden saying that the federal government is set to move heaven and earth to get to port reopened and that bridge rebuilt.

Congresswoman Nancy Mace will be on the show later said the disaster was because not enough money has gone towards roads and bridges.

She and other Republicans voted against the Infrastructure and Investment Jobs Act in 2021.

Is the Biden administration to blame for this disaster?

>> Well, my Republican friends will not miss any opportunity to lie about what's going on with the government.

That's just it.

I'm tired.

Call it misinformation.

Call it exaggeration.

They're just outright lying about everything.

And it's time for us to call them out for that.

We know what happened here.

No amount of money can stop a ship when it gets out of kilter.

And what we ought to do is think about what we need to do to bring everybody together to respond to this.

I would say to anybody, including my colleague from Charleston, that we have bridges in Charleston, a lot of ships in Charleston, and a port down there.

We may be next.

We hope it never happens.

We should stop this foolishness when something like this happens.

Let's come together, try to help those people up in Maryland and in the Baltimore Harbor, because we may need their help in the Charleston harbor in the future.

So I'm not going to respond to that directly.

They just ought to grow up.

Gavin> And when we talk about this Naval,... we talk about bridges, we look in our own state.

We'll talk about the needs here, of course.

But is there a push for more infrastructure investment on the congressional level at this point?

Clyburn> Well, you may recall this administration has put forth a bipartisan infrastructure bill.

The infrastructure didn't go out yesterday.

We have been complaining in South Carolina for at least 15 or 20 years about bridges needing to be repaired, and every time they try to do it, we cannot get help from the other side.

We had an administration prior to this one that talked about infrastructure every day for four years and didn't spend one dime on infrastructure.

And these Republicans who are aiding and abetting...him and wishing to return him to office, that is the kind of foolishness that got us in this.

Now, Joe Biden comes along and thankfully, about a dozen or so...Republicans voted for this infrastructure bill and the rest of them said it was a waste of money.

And now they are out holding press conferences, taking pictures and claiming what they brought back to their districts.

They voted against it and they voted against it because it was a waste of money.

Now, I'm going to talk to a group tomorrow and I'll be talking the scripture that I learned my dad, where there is no vision, people perish.

Joe Biden brought vision to this office...office.

And that's why we were able to respond, because we perished under COVID 19 and everything else that the previous administration failed to do for the American people.

Gavin> And, Congressman, along that line, we did see that Congress passed a $1.2 trillion spending bill that you were referencing earlier.

Last Friday, you and Republicans, Congressman Joe Wilson and Senator Lindsey Graham, were the only in the delegation to vote for this spending measure.

Tell me why you supported it.

>> Well, for one thing, it's got more infrastructure money in it.

There are $23 million in this bill.

One of Lake Marion, Lake Moultrie projects.

Lake Moultrie serves Charleston.

Lake Marion serves Orangeburg, Dorchester and Berkeley.

And we are trying to improve the infrastructure around those lakes.

And that's why one of the reasons I voted for it.

There are many other things in this legislation that would benefit South Carolina.

And I think it's short-sighted for us to think that you can do the things that need to be done by clipping coupons from the Sunday papers.

That's not the way you do things.

We have a government that should be responding to people's needs, people's dreams, people's aspirations.

And that's what this budget does.

And that's why I voted for it.

And people who continue to tell lies about what is or is not happening will not do justice to the future of this great country.

>> And some more needs that folks are talking about, is the need for more funding for Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan.

There is $3 million in this bill for Ukraine, but that was in the previous year.

So the money's already been spent essentially.

Do you see Congress moving forward at some point soon hopefully, possibly, when it comes to this foreign aid package?

>> I certainly hope so.

Once again, we cannot live in isolation.

We have to support our allies.

And I want to remind folks who may be tuning into this program, the United States made a deal with Ukraine.

Give up your nuclear weapons and we will be there to help protect you.

They gave up their nuclear weapons.

And now it's time for us to be there to protect them.

And we are not going to keep that promise?

Look, this is a country dependent upon our allies around the world.

And we had better, do the things that are necessary to keep faith with those allies.

We are not the only ones fighting this war.

Ukraine is not the only one.

You've got a bunch of our allies in NATO that is coming to the end, ...to the aid of Ukraine and for the United States of America to renege on this, it will woe detriment to the future of this great country.

Gavin> Congressman, when you were talking a little bit about the chaos going on in Congress, what do you make of this call from Georgia Congresswoman Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene, again, filing that motion to vacate the speakership when it comes to House Speaker, Mike Johnson, it wasn't a privilege motion, so it's not happening right now, but it could be something that you all take up or or commands conversation when you all get back from recess.

What do you make of this call?

>> Well, I would just say to the people who are tuning in, just look at the resignations that are being made.

You've got people that are, who are really, bona fide conservatives.

I have nothing against conservatives.

I am a conservative in some aspects of my life and I'm a very progressive liberal in other aspects of my life.

I tell people all the time my parents were very conservative.

They taught us to conserve.

But my dad, the minister, never asked his audience for a conservative offer.

He asked for a liberal offer.

We have to conserve sometimes.

We have to be liberal sometimes.

When it comes to defending this democracy, we have to be liberals in defense of this democracy.

And what Marjorie Taylor Greene is doing down there in Georgia is doing everything she possibly can to destabilize this democracy.

And that's what they're doing, getting rid of the speaker every time they disagree with him.

That is a childish.

We don't always agree on everything.

We can't always agree on everything.

We should not always agree on everything.

We ought to learn from each other.

We have different sets of experiences.

We bring these experiences to Congress and we ought to sit down around the table and try to learn from each other rather than to do, as one of my Republican colleagues said, "My idea of a compromise is "when the other side comes around to my way of thinking."

That is silliness, and that's childish.

Gavin> And, Congressman, to that effect, I believe that the Republicans are now down to a two vote majority margin in the House.

And it's been pretty touch and go with this entire Congress.

A lot of people say it's one of the most dysfunctional.

You've been in Congress since 1993.

Is anything getting done?

Is this one of the most dysfunctional Congresses that you've been a part of?

>> It is.

Absolutely the most dysfunctional that I've been a part of.

And I studied the history of this country and it's politics, pretty much all of my life.

And this is one of the if not, the... most... juvenile group of people ever gathered.

Gavin> What's the remedy to this then, sir?

How do you fix this problem?

>> Well, the voters have to fix it.

We can't fix it.

I don't vote for Marjorie Taylor...

I would never vote for Marjorie Taylor-Greene.

And when she is sent here by constituents down there, they have to look at themselves when they need something and they can't get it done, look to that, congresswoman, and see why it did not get done.

>> And, sir, what we're talking to, let's pivot to the election really quick.

There was a headline in The New York Times this week saying Obama fearing Biden lost to Trump, is on the phone to strategize.

You're a Biden campaign co-chair.

Are you fearing a Biden loss at this point?

We're months away.

What do you see that needs to be done for the president to shore up his support?

And are you fearful at this point?

>> I'm always fearful for the future and I'm always hopeful for the future.

And I'm always optimistic about the future because the future is unknown.

It is okay for us to be fearful.

In fact, the kind of fear I'm talking about, is not to be scared.

It's to be respectful.

And so I believe very strongly that we in this country, are at an inflection point.

We see someone who wants to be a dictator, someone who wants to get rid of the Constitution, someone who has no respect for others under 40, some odd...

I think it's over 70 indictments, someone who has been found guilty of sexual assault by a court, someone who never, ever makes a mistake, according to him.

And he is running neck and neck to be president again?

A total failure as president for four years.

And all he ever did was to give big tax breaks to wealthy people, and we are going to put him back in office.

That's something to be fearful of.

So I have no idea what the election will yield in November.

But everybody better be fearful of this election.

And everybody better be respectful of the process because we've been down this road before.

I've studied the election of 1876, another example of what happened in this country in 1876.

And that's exactly what Trump and his minions were trying to do on January sixth in 2021, repeat what happened in 1876.

All everyone has to do is Google it and you'll see that what happened in January 2021 is exactly what took place in 1876, and that led to Jim Crow Gavin> -and then Clyburn> -that led to apartheid.

That led to a country divided.

But we finally got it behind us in 1954, over a hundred years.

This country lived under that.

And that's what they were trying to repeat.

Gavin> And, Congressman, 30 seconds, you have represented the sixth Congressional District since 1993.

You recently filed to run for your 17th term.

You've stepped down from your assistant Democratic leader position.

Is this your last run?

How do you put this in perspective?

>> I don't know if it's my last run or not.

That will be decided sometime next year.

I'll do so with friends and family.

But, I'll remind people here in South Carolina, I've heard more about my age, than I ever heard about Strom Thurmond, who was still sitting in office when he was almost a hundred years old.

No one ever asked him about his age.

Yeah, I am a young 83, and everybody every other day asked me about my age.

Well, let me tell everybody.

On July 21st I will turn 84 years old and I will decide in concert with constituents, family and friends when to retire to my front porch.

Gavin> Very good, sir.

We wish you a happy early birthday and all the best.

That's 6th district... 6th district Congressman Jim Clyburn.

Sir, thank you, as always.

>> Thank you.

>> Joining me now to discuss the latest out of Washington is first Congressional District Republican Nancy Mace.

Congresswoman, welcome back to This Week in South Carolina.

Mace> Thank you for having me.

Gavin> So, Congresswoman, I want to start off by asking you about the latest news out of this tragedy out of the Port of Baltimore, where early Tuesday morning, a cargo ship lost power and took out the Francis Scott Key Bridge.

It closed the port up there.

I want to ask you if you've been in contact with folks down here in South Carolina, the Ports Authority officials, about what impact this might have on your district, which includes the Port of Charleston.

>> I have been in touch with the South Carolina Ports Authority since this tragedy happened.

Number one, I want to say that our heart and our prayers go out to every single person and their family who suffered a tragic loss yesterday.

Watching the video, which is very difficult to watch, to see this container ship singularly take out the Frances Key Bridge, and over 20...20 or so plus, people lose their lives yesterday was really, really sad and tragic, but also is reflective of the crumbling infrastructure that we have in this country.

And if you live along the coast, all of us know you're in the Lowcountry and across South Carolina's coast, that this is a real concern.

Just a couple of years ago, the Wando Bridge, we found corrosion and rusting out of some of the cable wires and the bridge shut down for several weeks until it was resolved and fixed.

We know that when you're dealing with infrastructure along the coast, it costs more, not just to create roads and bridges, but to also maintain them.

And infrastructure should be a priority for...for Congress.

But oftentimes, as I'm sure we're going to get into, those aren't our priorities, unfortunately.

Gavin> Congresswoman, I want to see if you can clarify a little bit what you said on that Newsmax interview where you faulted the Biden administration for this situation, even though the cargo ship lost power and hit this bridge that was in fair condition.

How is this the Biden administration's fault, in your opinion?

>> Well, look at the $1.7 trillion infrastructure bill just a couple of years ago that was passed by Congress.

Joe Biden and his administration, liked to laud that bill, but unfortunately, only $40 billion of that bill out of $1.7 trillion went to traditional roads and bridges or surface transportation.

So the $1.7 trillion, only $810 billion went to roads and bridges, surface transportation.

And of that, $110 billion, $70 billion was for public transportation.

A lot of money in that bill went to Green New Deal.

And look at the millions of miles of road and bridges that we have in this country today that don't get to be upgraded, that don't get to be replaced and look at...

I look at the Lowcountry right now, the Wando Bridge, the Don Holt Bridge.

To replace either of those bridges, it's going to cost the state of South Carolina a billion dollars each.

And in that infrastructure bill, the Joe Biden administration likes to say that the state of South Carolina was getting $6 billion over five years when the truth of the matter is, 5 of the $6 billion we were already getting no matter what.

So the state of South Carolina only got $1 billion extra out of that bill over a five year period.

And if infrastructure really is a priority, let's put our money into infrastructure and not to AOC's Green New Deal and a lot of wasteful spending that the government shouldn't be doing.

Gavin> But Congresswoman, also in that bill you're talking about, the Green New Deal.

You're talking about, you know, EV infrastructure.

South Carolina is a big part of this electric vehicle industry right now.

Whether it's chargers or batteries or vehicle manufacturing itself.

That's part of the bill, incentives for that.

Then there's also money there for broadband expansion, which is also benefiting the state.

And there's $40 billion for new funding for bridge repair.

That's the biggest investment in bridges in the nation's history.

So is that also part of the problem, in your opinion?

Mace> Well, absolutely.

If you look at EVs, look at the Lowcountry.

We are leading the charge in EV battery manufacturing and EV cars, but we don't need the government intervening here because that was already happening before this bill.

The state of South Carolina has put several deals together.

Governor Henry McMaster on bringing battery manufacturers here before that bill was passed.

And the other thing is that especially in the Low country, we have EV charging stations everywhere.

They're at...they're at C stores.

They're at retailers They're at restaurants.

All of that was already happening in the private sector.

So now because of that bill, you're going to have entrepreneurs and businesses competing with the government who's now going to put up EV charging stations where maybe they're not needed, where maybe there are already businesses that are running.

That's really a private sector endeavor, not the government.

>> Yeah, you voted against that bill, like you said, in 2021 with virtually all House Republicans.

In fact, only Senator Lindsey Graham was the only South Carolina Republican to vote for that.

You called it a socialist wishful- wish list and a fiasco.

So tell me again- Mace> Cause it was.

It was a socialist wish list.

And look, 3% of that bill went to service transportation.

That's kind of outrageous when you think about the amount of money that was spent.

Gavin> So what's the solution then, Congresswoman, if it's just about infrastructure, but not some of this other... all these other items, too?

And how do you get that done in a Congress that's pretty dysfunctional right now?

>> Congress is completely dysfunctional.

And I look at the spending bill that was led by Republicans just last Friday.

I voted against that, too.

I voted against the debt ceiling measure last year.

I mean, the debt ceiling bill led by Republicans was a complete shameful endeavor to add $50 trillion to the debt over the next ten years.

And if you look at the last 200 days, every hundred days we have...we're adding another $1 trillion to the debt on the backs of our children and grandchildren.

So I blame both Republicans and Democrats for the out of control spending that we have today.

Basically, last year under Kevin McCarthy, the disgraced former speaker, he used COVID, the highest level spending, we've had in our nation's history, under COVID as the baseline.

And when we go back to Congress in a week or two, the next thing we're going to do is pass a supplemental aid bill for Ukraine.

That money will be greater than the amount of money we spend on our U.S. Marine Corps every year.

So, yeah, I would I would tell you that Republicans and Democrats alike, they're to blame for inflation.

They're to blame for the excess spending this nation does, as opposed to getting to the nuts and bolts of things that matter in this country that we absolutely need to pay for.

We are neglecting because of the lack of leadership on spending and reining in out of control spending in both parties.

Gavin> So, Congresswoman, not you don't want to support any additional money to Ukraine at this point, even though some folks say that makes the world safer, that makes America safer?

Mace> I want to look at what the package is going, what it's going to be.

I haven't seen it yet.

I know that there's talk about it.

I have partially supported Ukraine so far.

And then in other cases I have not.

It depends on the fine print.

It depends on what's in the bill.

But I will tell you, if we're going to spend more money to another country's border than to our own, it's a nonstarter.

I look at just today it was announced that there was an illegal alien running around Dorchester County, running around the Lowcountry with...and in possession of illegal firearm right now.

Every state has become a border state.

We've had instances of MS-13 gangs here in the Lowcountry.

Fentanyl deaths, all sorts of issues related to human trafficking and sex trafficking.

Border security and illegal immigration is the number one issue of voters in South Carolina, no matter where you live.

Gavin> But then, Congresswoman, how can you talk about border security and that being a top issue, which a lot of people are concerned about legitimately?

But then you see what Republicans in the House did in Congress at the behest of former President Donald Trump and killing that immigration bill.

That was a bipartisan bill.

How do you mesh that and how do you fix that and go forward and actually pass a bill that folks who vote for?

Mace> Republicans in the Senate actually voted down that bill?

So it wasn't as bipartisan as the media likes to say that it was.

I read the bill.

It took me about 8 hours.

But I will tell you, in the fine print, like the debt ceiling bill.

That was a massive mass amnesty bill.

For every good idea that bill had on the very next page, there was a loophole to get around it.

That bill gave Joe Biden and Secretary Mayorkas singular and sole authority to get around all of the limits, the 5000 limit a day.

And no one can tell the American people with a straight face that they can shut the border down for a day if we hit 5000 illegals in this country.

Everyone knows that, that is not true and that is a lie.

And everybody knows that we don't have to pass another bill to secure the border.

Joe Biden, by the day, by the time the sun set on his first day in office, he turned back every good border security measure led by Donald Trump in his administration.

He turned it all back.

He turned off Title 42.

He turned off Remain in Mexico.

He literally stopped building the wall on day one.

We still have steel rusting along the southern border because Joe Biden stopped building a wall.

Donald Trump built over 550 miles of wall while he was president.

Joe Biden has asked for only this year in an election year to build 21 miles of new wall.

I mean, it's just sort of...it's ridiculous.

It's paying lip service to border security and immigration.

Gavin> And Congresswoman, we about 90 seconds left, and I ask you a couple more questions.

One of them being about Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who you spar with from time to time.

She was calling for a motion to vacate the speaker's role, get rid of House Speaker Mike Johnson over the spending bill.

She says it's time for our conference to choose a new speaker.

Do you agree with that?

Do you think you need a new speaker?

Mace> No, I disagree with that.

and...frankly, if...the mainstream media would actually read what's going on, that bill isn't going to go anywhere.

It was not a privileged motion, so we're actually never going to vote on it.

It was sort of moot.

It's never going to happen.

And quite frankly, Mike Johnson, whom I support, everything that he has done, he has inherited every bad deal that was negotiated by the disgraced former speaker, Kevin McCarthy.

Kevin McCarthy put together the debt ceiling bill.

He screwed the-it was... he tarnished the I guess, appropriations process last year.

And the reason we're in this situation today is because of the bad deals that Kevin McCarthy negotiated last year.

I will not defend Kevin McCarthy.

I will not carry the water for Kevin McCarthy and I certainly won't defend the lies he told the American people.

>> That's First District Congresswoman Nancy Mace, thank you so much.

>> Thank you.

>> For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson, Be well, South Carolina.

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