♪ >> Hello and welcome to another edition of Canada Files .

I'm Jim Deeks.

For some time, we've been wanting to have a episode featuring a Canadian woman entrepreneur.

Because it seems to us there are more and more dynamic, creative and courageous women starting their own businesses in the 21st century.

We didn't have to look very far.

Here in Toronto, Joanna Griffiths has set the world on fire with her now 10-year-old company called Knix.

It offers an expanding line of women's intimate apparel that initially confronted and solved an age-old issue for women of all ages.

Joanna's success has been phenomenal.

And it's only just begun.

>> Joanna Griffiths, I know you're a very busy woman.

So we appreciate you taking the time for Canada Files .

>> Thanks so much for having me, Jim.

>> Many young women like you, when you started out, go into the supposedly glamorous world of entertainment and PR.

And you did for a few years.

One would hardly think that's the foundation for starting a business in women's undergarments.

>> Tell us how you moved on from one world into the next.

>> A great question and maybe not something I've reflected on all that often.

I started my career in media and entertainment.

I worked at a large record label.

I had, for all intents and purposes, the dream job for someone coming out of university.

What I took away from that experience, having worked with some of the top celebrities in the world really is that at the end of day, we're all just people.

We have one life.

It's up to us what we want to use that life for.

How we want to use the platforms we build and to apply ourselves.

What I found was either I was really inspired by the work that the people were doing, and the change they were instilling in the world.

Or I was disenfranchised and felt like what a waste.

That gave me the confidence to really recognize at the end of the day, we're all just people.

It's up to us what we want to do with our voice and platform.

So I went back to school to do an MBA.

Had big dreams of running a media company someday.

As it turns out, I had a bigger dream which was starting Knix.

And a bigger calling.

So I was grateful for that opportunity.

>> What led to starting a women's undergarment service?

>> I always say I'm the most unlikely person to have done this.

Because I'd worked in media and entertainment.

I'd never worked with a physical product before.

I'd always worked with people or stories.

Had no experience in apparel.

But I had an idea to create and invent what is now leakproof underwear.

Something that didn't really exist at the time.

That, by 2026 is going to be a $1.6 billion category.

Wild, right!

I had this idea and knew a lot people needed it.

When I started doing the research, taking and interviewing people, really understanding how big the need was for this product and category.

I felt this is my chance to make a difference.

My chance to make the most of things.

I ended up moving forward with the idea in starting Knix.

I haven't looked back since.

>> Identifying the problem, and coming up with a solution.

Then actually putting that solution into practice is trying to jump the Grand Canyon!

I'm sure you'd agree that's probably what you went through.

First of all, you need the guts to do it.

You need the time to do it and the seed capital to get it started.

How did all of that fall into place for you?

>> I started by just talking to people.

I had this idea and wanted to validate if this was something people would be interested in.

I did a lot of digital anthropology .

Which is a snazzy way of saying online creeping.

Spending time in chat rooms and forums.

Getting people to talk about intimate and personal things.

What I discovered through that research was two huge themes within the intimate apparel market.

The first was products hadn't really evolved.

Despite all the innovation we'd seen everywhere else in the world, women's intimates hadn't really changed very much.

The most recent innovation had been the thong.

Which I don't expect you to understand!

But as a woman, it leaves a lot to be desired.

The second big theme I picked up was when Instagram was starting to take off but still really early.

If you really talked to people, the entire intimates landscape was making them feel not included.

Like they didn't belong, they weren't enough.

Out of all of the different industries and players, the role that some of the big intimate apparel behemoths were playing in devaluing women.

Damaging their self-esteem, hurting their self confidence.

I felt there was an opportunity to re-invent products.

Then re-invent what a brand can be.

>> Why do you think through all these years...centuries, that women's undergarments, until Knix came along, were so fundamentally badly designed?

Specifically to the issue you've identified.

>> ...there's two things.

The first one is, I don't necessarily think that intimates were badly designed.

The purpose was wrong.

A lot of intimate apparel products and lingerie was being designed to be worn for five minutes.

It was being designed to appeal to men instead of to appeal to the person that was wearing it.

So when we create products, we think about how does our customer feel in 5 minutes and in 15 hours.

Is this actually delivering the promise?

Is it making their life easier and their day better?

It was switching the lens of who these products were designed for.

Instead of them being designed ultimately for the observer, it was being designed for the wearer.

The second is that up until very recently menstruation leaks...these are some of the last big taboos.

That just weren't spoken about.

Actually it's quite common.

when you look at the broader landscape that women's and health issues have oftentimes been overlooked.

Because it wasn't part of what was socially acceptable to talk about things like menstruation.

To talk about these, no-one was working on a solution.

Because it wasn't part of the cultural zeitgeist .

What you see now is this huge and really inspiring onslaught of fem-tech products and companies.

That are re-inventing products specifically to meet this growing consumer base that has real needs that have been overlooked for years.

>> Do you think you've been, either the generator of a lot of those new femtech products?

Or were you just one of the early adopters?

>> I think a bit of both.

In business, in the world more broadly speaking, we all benefit from role-modelling.

From seeing others that look and sound like us succeed.

I was greatly impacted by Sara Blakely who started Spanx, and her journey building Spanx.

Youngest self-made female billionaire in the US.

And authentically herself.

When we see others succeeding, we start to change the narrative.

We start to believe this could be possible for me.

Then the funders, the people with the money who are backing these companies also start to identify, "Hey, there's something going on here."

We should change the way we're pattern matching, so to speak.

>> At the start, talking about fund raising, you would have been one of the very first people certainly in Canada to do serious money-raising through crowd-funding.

Which is essentially the online version of passing the hat.

You're getting $100 from somebody, $25 from someone else.

It's not normally the way you raise money to start a new business.

Did crowd funding provide you with the seed capital you needed to get going?

Or did you have to go to other sources as well?

>> It helped.

I went to every source.

I think every founder and entrepreneur you speak to will say you have to literally pound on every single door.

To get the resources that you need.

>> One of the other problems that entrepreneurs and start-up companies run into is how to meet initial demand.

Especially if your product just hits the mark and demand is huge!

How did you manage growth and supply in those early years?

>> Not well, to be honest!

>> Good for you for admitting that.

>> It took us awhile to figure that piece out.

Part of it has to do with the journey I took with our company to begin with.

I spent the first three years of building Knix selling to wholesale partners.

Relying on third parties to sell our brand and products.

What that did was it removed us from the end consumer that we wanted to connect with so badly.

So we got good at things, broadly speaking.

We started seeing tremendous success when we made the very difficult decision to cut 70-80% of our revenue to pull out of the 800 stores we were in.

To focus to just selling online.

We basically started over.

We had to do less in order to do more.

That was a lesson I learned along the way.

I learned the power and importance of saying no.

>> You are now in the marketplace selling products against well-established, long-established brand names.

Including most universally-known would be Victoria's Secret.

You mentionned some of the brands that you started against were selling to a very different kind of... not market but with a different mindset.

Victoria's Secret has been seducing women and men for 40 years with a very different marketing approach.

Is Knix up-ending the women's lingerie market?

>> We forced a lot of change.

That's something I'm really proud of.

When we started Knix, with this idea making sure customers felt seen in our marketing.

That they were co-creating the brand with us.

That was unique.

We were the first brand to use our customers in our photo shoots.

First brand to show what a product looks like on every single size.

There's countless firsts.

What I've seen happen over the past decade is that the tables have turned.

That's actually a really positive thing.

That kind of community-driven approach, ensuring inclusivity and diversity in your marketing, that was a very strong point of difference for us in the beginning.

Now it's table stakes.

We've come so far and demanded so much change that now it says more when you're not doing that... than when you are.

I do think there's been a profound amount of change that's taken place within the industry.

What we've done is we've shown customers that they have a voice and a role.

That they're worthy of being included and represented.

Once you empower people to feel that way, you start demanding more of the competition.

>> You mentionned that when you started out your business model was to sell through stores.

Through whole-sellers and ultimately getting into department and women's stores.

Then you stopped that, went online only.

But now you've done a bit of an about-face .

In that you've started your own bricks-and-mortar operation.

Is that now an area of expansion and focus for you?

Or are you just doing that in certain markets?

Where you think it's more convenient but online will still be the main business driver.

>> We're always going to be digital first.

It's where our roots came from.

And how we're able to connect with so many people.

But in part of listening to our customers, we found there is still a large group of people that want to touch and feel the product.

They want help with sizing-- go to a retail environment that they feel really comfortable in.

So that's how we set up our store strategy.

We followed our consumers and set up stores in the markets where people are asking us for it.

>> All the while you've been making these decisions and facing these challenges, you've built a very successful company.

Tell me basically, what are your metrics now?

Your annual sales?

How many employees do you have?

What is the geographical scope of Knix.

>> We do nine figures in revenue a year.

And have been for quite some time now.

>> What do you mean by nine figures?

>> Dollar revenue in excess of hundreds of millions.

>> That's fantastic!

>> That's my Canadian in me.

>> We're all very shy.

>> The world needs to know Canadians are shy about this.

>> The last time we looked, we sell an item every six seconds online.

So millions of customers that choose to shop from our brand, which is something I don't take lightly.

I believe our team is around 250 people now.

>> All the while, you've been building a huge company you became a mother of three children.

With twins, no less.

You're certainly not alone in being a mother & business woman.

How do you manage a multi-million dollar company along with the responsibilities of being a mom and a wife?

>> I get a lot of help.

That's something we need to say more often than less.

I have a tremendous nanny that's a key part of our family.

That helps me every single day.

I have a really supportive partner and extended family.

Then I'm comfortable in chaos .

I think every entrepreneur has to live in that world.

Believe me, Jim, when I found out I was going to have three kids under the age of two, I was like, "Okay, not everything in my life has to be this intense!"

I think we're made for it.

I'm comfortable in chaos.

I get a lot of help.

And I give myself a lot of grace.

>> You might have created some chaos for yourself when you went out on a capital-raising campaign 2 years ago.

I think you were pregnant with your twins.

You met with a number of venture capital firms throughout North America.

In going to those meetings, you had one stipulation.

that you put forward, related to possible attitudes coming from men.

Explain what that was and how it went over at the time.

>> Sure.

About a year ago, we set to do our first significant capital raise for Knix.

Because we've been really capital efficient since starting the brand.

I was raising the money while I was expecting twins.

I think our deadline to close was the Friday.

I delivered my girls on the Monday.

So really cutting it close.

The rule you're talking about was just this idea that anyone in the process who questionned my ability to build a company and be a mother was cut from the process.

They had no place, space or opportunity to be owners, investors in Knix.

The rationale behind that was pretty simple.

If that's what they questionned, then they obviously didn't understand what Knix is about and what I'm about.

And ultimately wouldn't be champions of us-- sort of delivering against our mission.

>> When you became a mother, you discovered quickly that nursing your babies wasn't as easy as you might have thought it would have been.

Because like everybody else, you'd seen pictures in magazines of serene mothers with beautiful babies at their breasts.

All looking happy and content.

You found that wasn't the case for you.

But you did something about it.

What did you do from that experience?

>> I kicked off a project called The Life After Birth Project .

Which was a travelling photography exhibit.

It ultimately became a coffee table book.

What we did was we brought together the stories of life after birth.

What the postpartum experience really is like.

Honouring that every person's journey is different.

Both to get to the point of becoming a parent as well as their experience after.

Really shining a light on building community around these collective experiences.

That make people know that they're not alone.

A common thread I've seen throughout Knix is this notion that women are expected to have it all.

But it can't be hard.

Right?

Even this stigma behind periods.

This notion of have this monthly experience.

But don't complain or talk about it or pretend like it's not happening.

is very indicative of the pressure we put on women in society in general.

A lot of what we've done at Knix is encouraging people to say it's okay to talk about the good, bad, the journey and process.

In doing so, we might all end up collectively being stronger.

>> By that, by not just including postpartum.

It's basically women's issues.

We have to recognize what they are.

Do you plan to expand on that campaign?

Beyond women's apparels?

>> Yeah...it's so funny.

We sell underwear.

But that's not what we really do at Knix.

No-one who comes to work at Knix views that as their job.

We're here to empower our community to be unapologetically free.

To do that, we have to change the narrative.

We have to help undo the damage that's been done by our industry and the collective media at large.

Of ...time again, telling people they're not good enough.

And they're not worthy enough.

We've tackled a bunch of different things in isolation.

Be it inclusivity, diversity, body positivity, fertility, the postpartum experience.

Recently we released a campaign called Big Strong Woman .

Which honours all of the ways women are big and strong.

By showing up, learning to love ourselves in a society that tells us not to.

By enduring all of these different pressures.

Writing our own path.

Redefining what society expects of us.

Really hoping that people take a minute and feel proud and good about themselves.

>> From the last 10 years and your success in building this company and taking on issues like you've just described, what have you learned about yourself?

That you probably didn't know existed?

>> I've been so lucky.

I've grown up alongside Knix.

I've been on this journey.

I would not be the person I am today if it weren't for our customers and our community.

I say that every time we photograph a customer.

We involve them in our campaigns.

That harm, self-doubt in myself undoes just a little bit more.

What have I learned?

I'm a lot tougher than I gave myself credit for.

I'm a lot more resilient.

I've learned to step into this seat of using my voice, platform and that opportunity to ultimately deliver what it was that I learned from working in music.

Which is, this is my one shot.

My one chance to have an impact.

I've learned to use Knix and all of the resources and tools that we have available to make that impact be as profound as possible.

>> What have you learned about running a business that perhaps you didn't get out of doing your MBA?

>> So much.

Everything takes 10 times longer than you think it's going to.

...I love the saying which is people overestimate what they can accomplish in a year.

They underestimate what they can accomplish in 10.

That's been universally true for Knix.

One of the things I didn't fully appreciate until recently is the importance of team.

The importance of surrounding yourself with incredible people.

Who share a passion and a vision.

Where Knix is today is a by-product of hundreds of people that works at our company.

It's not just me anymore.

That's been a great learning along the way.

>> One thing you probably would have learned in MBA school is there is a lot of historical evidence that entrepreneurs-- the people with the ideas and the energy to get them launched don't necessarily make good CEOs.

Here you are, the entrepreneur.

You've got it up and running and now you're the CEO.

Do you sometimes sit in your office or lie in bed at night, saying I don't know if I can do both roles.

>> Constantly.

A certain sense of being on your toes and checking in is something really important.

The second the people feel they've "got it in the bag" is when things usually tend to fall apart.

I'm always asking myself that question... am I the best person for this job?

Can I really take this company where it deserves, and has the potential, to go?

For the time being that answer is yes.

I'll stick in this seat for as long as that makes sense.

>> What's ahead for Knix for the next 5 - 10 years?

Growth or expansion of the product line?

Perhaps into non-undergarments?

Acquisition of another competitive or similar company?

Or conversely as so many start-ups will do being acquired by a bigger and larger conglomerate or competitor.

Where do you go from here?

>> I'm not going to show all my cards.

>> Okay, next question Jim.

>> I think the amazing thing about Knix is everyday we feel like we're just getting started.

...doing what we're doing bigger, bolder, reaching more people & following what our customer says.

Ultimately, that's what's gotten us to this point.

That's where we're going to continue to go, going forward.

We've expanded our assortment a lot.

We've ventured into active and swim wear.

We've encompassed the entire intimate and active wear landscape at this point in time.

We'll continue to be guided by our customer and what it is that they want.

>> Our Canadian viewers will be very pleased to know you're Canadian, of course.

You wouldn't be on Canada Files if you weren't.

Knix began, and is still headquartered, in Canada.

You and your husband, Dave, and your kids live in Canada.

And will presumably continue to do so.

So you and your company are proud Canadians.

Let me ask a question I ask all our guests on Canada Files .

What does being Canadian mean to you?

>> Such a great question.

For me, ultimately it's about the values I've learned living in this country.

Which is to practice humility.

To be a community advocate and player.

To be proud of where we've come and what we've built.

That's what keeps me here.

The people are incredible.

We are open to admitting our mistakes and always learning, growing and evolving.

we've seen that more than ever over the past couple of years.

Which has been an incredible thing to see.

There's a sense of camaraderie and pride that comes from living in this country.

>> I agree with you 100%.

Joanna, thank you so much for your insights and charm.

That's probably a chauvinistic thing to say.

But I genuinely mean it.

Thanks for being with us on Canada Files .

>> Thanks for having me.

It's been a pleasure.

>> And thank you for watching.

We'll see you next time with another edition of Canada Files .

♪