MING: This week on Simply Ming, one of my all-time faves... Pirouette?

Joanne Chang is in the house.

She, of course, is known for her Flour bakery.

She has eight of them in Boston and Cambridge.

She's an unbelievable pastry chef.

But she also does savory food at Myers + Chang.

Today she is actually making something out of her new book.

It's going to be pavlova, which, of course, is a French meringue and with delicious passion fruit curd.

One tip is that you never want to just dump sugar onto egg yolks, because it will cook the egg yolks.

You'll get little hard lumps.

MING: I'm going to take that same meringue and do my version of an île flottante.

This is going to end up being a thicker crème anglaise, but it's going to have the nice flavor of coconut.

We're cooking at home, right here, right now, on Simply Ming.

♪ ♪ MING: Joanne.

Hello!

MING: You're the best.

Thanks for coming, back.

I'm thrilled to be here.

MING: You've been here so many times.

We're going to make a cocktail together, okay?

Okay.

This is called the Harvest Moon.

So I'll go ahead and load you up here, and we're going to shake together.

And the reason we can't just do it in one is 'cause there's egg whites.

So you need air to give it a little frothiness.

Got it.

MING: So we start with a little bit of... Japanese whiskey.

Okay.

MING: That has coffee flavor in it.

I have never made a drink before.

MING: Really?

Yeah.

MING: All right.

So I'm going to be learning.

First time.

MING: I've seen you drink before, so I know that.

So this is an amaro from Sicily, right?

Tons of herbs and spices.

Has a bitterness to it, but it has a nice background of sweetness.

Okay.

MING: Then we have a little bit of cinnamon syrup.

Is that what all the dots are?

MING: That's what the dots... Yeah, there's a little vanilla, too.

Got it.

MING: Very observant.

These Harvard people are very observant.

Freshly squeezed lemon juice.

Okay?

Then, last but not least, we have a little bit of honey syrup, which is literally just honey, local honey, with a little bit of water.

All right?

Then, we take one egg white each.

Okay?

Yup.

MING: For you.

So dump it in like that.

Dry shake.

This dry shake, we want to get, we want the egg white to really, really get nice and frothy.

That's right, go, harder, come on.

Like you're running the marathon.

(Chang grunting) Do you still run?

I do.

MING: Okay, that's good.

All right, then.

Find the spot that's closest, and if you hit it hard, it will come out.

Yeah?

Try it, yeah, there you go.

There you go.

Whoa!

MING: Perfect.

Not really.

MING: You had it.

Yeah, you had it.

Got it.

MING: All right.

See how frothy that is?

Oh, wow, great.

MING: Beautiful.

Can you dump that for me, please?

Absolutely.

MING: So now that it's nice and frothy, I'm just going to add just a little ice, just a touch, because, obviously, we want to, to chill it out now, right?

But if you do the ice in the very beginning, you won't get any froth at all.

Okay.

MING: So I'm just a little bit, just to get it cold, because you can't have a drink that's not cold, right?

All right, that smells good.

It's still really frothy.

MING: Yeah, it does.

Because by icing it afterwards, you're still going to have... look at that.

Oops.

Beautiful.

MING: There we go.

Awesome.

Cheers.

Cheers.

MING: Cheers.

What do you think?

Delicious.

MING: Pretty good, right?

I love it.

MING: A little coffee.

Could have this for breakfast.

I love it.

MING: Let's go make some meringue.

Sounds good.

MING: All right, come on.

All right, Joanne, pavlova, love it.

Yes, I'm so excited to show this to you.

MING: What's the creation of pavlova?

So pavlova is a meringue dessert.

MING: Right.

It's actually named after a Russian ballerina.

Her name is Anna Pavlova.

MING: Right.

It was, I think, in the 1920s.

It's beautiful, it's fun.

MING: Do you think it's because she was such an amazing dancer and so light on her feet...

Exactly, it's ethereal.

MING: Which is like Pavlova.

All right, so egg whites.

We start off with some egg whites.

We're just going to make a very simple French meringue.

(mixer whirring) So I like to start it on kind of a medium, medium-high speed.

And you'll see that it starts off as viscous, right?

MING: Right.

The yellow, and it was, like, kind of gluey.

And then as the air gets whipped into it, it gets lighter and lighter and whiter, because of all the bubbles.

MING: Right.

And you want to wait until you see the tines of the whisk in the whites.

MING: Okay.

So you don't want to add the sugar too soon.

MING: So none at all?

Not yet.

MING: Because a soufflé, I was trained to add a pinch of sugar in the beginning and then the rest.

Yeah, that's true.

That's because you don't want to overwhip.

MING: Okay.

But we're not going to overwhip.

So now you can start to see the tines.

MING: Right.

So then I start adding the sugar little by little.

And as soon as you add sugar, that helps prevent it from overwhipping.

MING: Okay.

It's all about the chemistry of making a meringue.

So what you're doing is, the sugar is actually tightening the egg whites that are in there, so that they can hold more air.

MING: Awesome.

The more sugar you add, the more air it can hold.

So you can see that it's starting to get really glossy.

MING: Yep.

Nice and white.

And I'm just adding a little bit at a time so the sugar can slowly, slowly absorb.

So as you add all of the sugar... MING: Right.

I turn it up just a little bit.

MING: Right.

We're going to let it go for about ten or 15 more seconds as it tightens up.

MING: Right.

And thank God for standing mixers, because this would take... Oh, my gosh.

MING: I mean, that would take us a long time by hand.

Okay, so now when it's starting to look really stiff... MING: Right.

It kind of looks almost like marshmallow... MING: Yeah.

We're going to stop it.

MING: All right.

Beautiful.

We're going to take it out.

And then we're going to fold in a little bit of cornstarch.

MING: Cornstarch.

Yeah, this will help absorb the sugar that we just beat in there.

It will help absorb it.

And a little bit of salt for flavor.

Thank you.

And some vanilla extract.

MING: Oh.

And the corn starch will absorb the sugar, so that it doesn't leach out.

Because sometimes... MING: And you don't want to put it... you don't need to whisk it in.

No, just folding it in.

And it's going to absorb all of that sugar, so when you bake it, we're going to bake this really slowly for about three or four hours at 175 degrees.

So you're just drying it out.

MING: Got it.

So if you didn't do the cornstarch, then the sugar might kind of leach out... MING: Interesting.

And then you'd end up with... MING: But it's still gluten-free.

It's cornstarch, not flour.

It's totally gluten-free, yes.

It's a great dessert if you're celiac.

MING: Yeah.

Or gluten-intolerant.

MING: Which, you take a lot of care at Flour.

We do.

MING: Right?

You have...

I've seen the gluten-free buns, the gluten-free croissants...

Exactly.

We have gluten-free bread... MING: It's hard.

It is really hard.

MING: It is so hard, because without the gluten, which is the elasticity, it doesn't have that same mouthfeel.

Okay, so now we just make little mounds.

We're going to do about eight mounds.

Here, do you want to do some?

MING: Oh, I don't know if I can handle it.

It's my first time, like your first cocktail.

Very easy.

MING: Oh, my God, I did it!

And you should have just enough for about eight.

MING: Okay.

And then... And then we make a little well.

So while you're doing that, I'm just going to finish them off.

And we make a little well because we're going to be filling them with some whipped cream, and then some passion curd.

MING: I'm going to do six.

Let's do six.

MING: I ran out of space.

I think I made it a little big.

MING: But by the way, this Silpat, this pat we're using... Oh, right.

MING: ...is one of the best non-stick things in the world.

When I first started in pastry, they didn't exist, or at least I didn't know about them.

And then I learned about them, and I use them for everything.

MING: Yeah.

It's this magic, like, plastic surface.

MING: Yeah.

Nothing sticks to them.

MING: Nothing, you don't have to oil it.

You don't have to spray it.

It's just, nothing sticks.

Great, okay.

MING: Oven?

Into the oven.

MING: What was the temp again?

So about 175.

MING: Okay.

It's really low.

Again, you're just kind of drying it out.

MING: So if you have a gas oven, just the pilot light.

Yes, uh... MING: A little bit more?

I would make it a little bit more.

MING: Okay.

Yeah.

But then watch it carefully, and then maybe you need to turn it off after a while.

MING: Passion fruit curd.

Okay, now we're going to make passion fruit curd.

MING: All right, low heat?

Low heat at first.

We're going to add some... this is just passion fruit purée.

A little bit... MING: Which you can store, you can buy it, right?

Oh, you should buy it, yeah.

MING: It's so hard to make passion fruit purée and syrup.

I tried to make it from scratch.

It's really hard.

MING: Besides, there's, like, 8,000 seeds in one little passion fruit, and then to just to get it out.

So that's butter?

So that's butter, a little bit of lemon juice.

MING: Okay.

Some of the passion fruit, and now we're going to do a little bit of egg yolks.

MING: Okay.

And then we're going to do some, four egg yolks.

MING: When I worked at Fauchon, with Pierre Hermé, in France, we would have to do, some recipes would be, like, 180 egg yolks, and, and he insisted we do it individually, right?

Oh, really?

MING: But that takes so long.

Because he doesn't want one little shell, one anything.

Yeah.

MING: But when he wasn't looking, of course, we'd crack a huge bowl, and then we'd take out the yolks.

And then it was, like, "Chef!"

And we'd hear him-- that's our code-- then we'd hide the bowl and start whistling.

Oh, my gosh.

MING: And then he would go by, and then we'd bring it... Because it would take forever.

Okay, so while you're melting the butter, I took some egg yolks, and then I'm whisking in some sugar.

MING: Okay.

And one tip is that you never just want to dump sugar onto egg yolks, because it will cook the egg yolks.

You'll get little hard lumps.

MING: Right.

So up to the whisk constantly after you add sugar.

MING: Great tip.

Yeah, a lot of times, I see people, they crack the egg yolks, and they put in sugar, and then they walk away and go measure out other ingredients.

And by the time you come back, you get these little hard lumps.

MING: Right.

And you can't get rid of them, right?

They're there.

You can strain them out, but then you basically have strained out the egg yolk and the sugar from your recipe.

MING: And your recipe is different.

Right.

MING: All right, do you temper?

Yes, and now we temper.

Just a little bit of the heat.

MING: A little bit, right.

This technique, tempering, do you want to talk about it?

Yeah, so tempering, it's sort of like when you go into the swimming pool, instead of jumping all the way in, you put your toe in, and then you put your leg in, and then you slowly ease your body in.

That's what we're doing, is, we're slowly heating up the egg yolk and the sugar so that it gets to this temperature, so that we don't shock the whole egg system.

MING: Interesting.

You know, I just jump in, though.

I have to admit, I don't do the toe thing.

That's why you're not a baker.

(both laughing) So when you have about half of it in... MING: Right, which is like that.

Then it should be about the same temperature, at least warm enough that it's not going to be a shock to the system, and then we put the whole thing... MING: You have to do that technique, guys, tempering.

Absolutely.

MING: If you tried to dump those egg yolks into this, with the sugar, sweet scrambled eggs.

Right.

MING: Literally.

So now we just cook this slowly.

MING: So it's on... Kind of a medium.

MING: Yeah, it's medium, got it.

Yeah.

And slowly, slowly, the egg yolks will start to cook.

MING: Right.

It's going to thicken up the mixture.

MING: And you can't walk away, go watch TV... No, no, this is a nice...

Honestly, one of the reasons why I love pastry is that there are times that you can be really meditative.

MING: Yep.

And this is good meditation, just stare into the eggs.

MING: It's so true.

Just be calm.

Be in the moment.

MING: Don't pick up your cell phone.

I do that a lot, though.

MING: Do you?

So you're like this?

I'm like this.

So what you're looking for is when you can start to see a little bit of a trail at the bottom.

MING: Yep, the line.

Yeah, and when this starts to hold.

MING: Right.

But right now, it's still pretty runny.

MING: But this takes what, another two minutes?

One or two minutes.

I can actually feel it right now.

Here.

if you mix it around, can you feel... MING: Yeah, oh, yeah, absolutely.

You can start to feel something on the bottom.

And that's why you want to constantly stir it, because if you just sit here, it will cook from the bottom.

And then you'll get scrambled eggs on the bottom, and the top will still be liquid.

MING: 100%, and you don't want to whisk here.

You don't want to add more air to this, right?

No, because that will make it, yeah, hard for you to tell when it's done.

MING: Absolutely, so let me change your bowl out here.

Okay, great.

MING: I'm just getting this ready, because I know she has to whip some cream.

Right.

MING: You want to make sure there's no water ever on your whisk.

Right.

Okay, so this is nice and thick.

MING: Coming together for you?

Yup, it's started to hold, hold its shape.

Mmm.

MING: That looks good.

Yup.

MING: Can I get your whipped cream going for you?

Yeah, so let's start whipping the cream.

MING: Heavy cream...

So this is just heavy cream and a little bit of confectioners' sugar.

MING: And here you can add the sugar in now, correct?

Right.

MING: And do you go low, and then eventually...

I go low just so that you don't overwhip.

MING: Yeah.

And then I'm going to strain this curd.

So we always strain... Any time you make a cooked egg... MING: Right.

You want to strain it, because there might be a little bit of egg yolk or there might be a little shell.

MING: Eggshell, yeah.

If you don't do it one by one.

And this way, you catch any of that egg yolk or shell.

So you have a perfectly smooth curd.

MING: That looks awesome.

And then I assume this goes in the fridge.

This goes in the fridge, right.

MING: Okay.

And you're going to chill it until it's totally firm.

MING: Awesome.

Yeah.

MING: All right, we've got meringue in the oven, whipped cream coming.

We're going to chill this out, and come back, and we're going to put together pavlova.

We're going to plate, beautiful.

MING: Pirouette?

Was she as good as us?

She was not as good as us, there's no way.

All right, stick around.

We practice more.

MING: Those look beautiful.

These look great.

These look great.

MING: All right, let's put this together.

So these have been sitting out now for a couple of hours, so they can totally cool and then they'll come off.

MING: So four hours in at 175, then a couple of hours hanging out.

Exactly.

MING: Okay.

Just so they can dry out.

And you can see that they're kind of imperfect, which is totally fine.

I mean, that's what meringue does when it goes into the oven.

It kind of grows a little bit and then it cracks.

It especially cracks when it cools down.

MING: I'm not sure Anna Pavlova would have said it's okay to not...

I think she would have thought these were beautiful.

MING: Okay, good point.

Okay.

MING: She was a perfect dancer, was my point.

So whipped cream?

Yeah, a little bit of sweetened whipped cream.

MING: Right.

Just a really simple dessert.

This is a great dessert to kind of make in advance and then put together last-minute.

MING: If you have company, you could have everything done.

Right, and then... MING: And it's this.

Just a little bit of whipped cream.

And then we have the passion curd, which has been in the fridge for at least an hour.

It thickens.

MING: Right.

You can see how nice and thick it gets.

MING: Smell it, you can smell it, passion fruit.

It's my favorite flavor of all, passion fruit.

It's such a great flavor.

So you want to stir it up so that you can... and then just take a little dollop and put it just right on it.

It looks a little bit like an egg.

MING: Oh, cool, I love it.

It's, it's really strongly flavored.

So you don't need a lot.

It's got a lot of really great, tart flavor.

And just for color, and also for flavor, I like to serve this with some raspberries.

I think it's a really pretty dessert for the summer.

MING: That looks so good.

Just some fresh raspberries on top.

And, again so simple, so easy to put together.

MING: It's awesome.

Just like that.

MING: Well, before we eat, can you hang and help me lift egg whites again, because I'm going to make my île flottante.

Yes.

MING: First dessert I ever made in France.

Let's do it.

MING: Then we get to eat.

Perfect.

MING: Stick around.

♪ ♪ That pavlova looked awesome.

Thank you.

MING: I can't wait to bite into it.

I can't wait to try it.

MING: So I'm making an île flottante, which literally means, "floating island."

But we're going to do it dairy-free.

So Joanne is doing the exact same meringue, the French meringue.

So we had it started...

I don't agree with you.

I put a pinch of sugar in at the very beginning.

I think a pinch of sugar makes sense.

You're right.

MING: It just stabilizes it.

Totally.

MING: So a half a cup of total sugar.

This is eight egg whites, and then she's going to get this just like she did, nice and shiny.

I'm going to make a crème anglaise.

So traditionally, crème anglaise is sugar, eight yolks to about half a cup of sugar.

Because I'm making it dairy-free, I'm using coconut milk to make the crème anglaise, and I'm going to use this cinnamon syrup.

And it's the cinnamon syrup that we used for the cocktail.

For the drink.

MING: Right?

And I'm going to not use all of this-- this is half a cup-- because I don't want it too sweet, and because, obviously, this has liquid in it, right?

So I think that's about right.

So that's all I need.

Because I want a little bit less sweet.

Right?

We add the vanilla.

That goes in, as well.

And we're going to get our coconut milk, just a can of coconut milk, shaken, which, obviously, is thicker than milk and cream.

Thank you, Joanne.

And then this, we're just going to... Like any, just like you saw her make... Joanne make the curd, we're going to heat this up, and then we're going to temper the egg yolks.

This is going to end up being a thicker crème anglaise, but it's going to have the nice flavor of coconut.

And right here is this simmering liquid.

So when you make île flottante traditionally, it's milk, right?

Milk actually with a little vanilla.

You can do it in water, because I'm just going to poach the egg white, and then I've added one star anise here, and one cinnamon stick, just to give it a little bit of flavor.

All right, so we're going to just wait for this to come to a simmer.

Same technique, temper, we'll add the hot liquid to the yolks, then add it back, we can make the anglaise.

MING: How's our... Is that good to go?

The meringue is good, yeah.

Do you want to start poaching?

MING: Yeah, let's do it.

Yeah, nice.

Nice having a master pastry chef in the house.

So it's important that it's just simmering.

You cannot have it boiling because you will overcook it.

Grazie.

So you literally just take and you just lay it in, all right?

Kind of an oblong shape.

And these egg whites will cook.

You're going to have to flip it one time because, obviously, you want to cook the egg whites all the way through.

All right.

And we can probably get a fifth one in here.

All right, perfect.

So these... Those are awesome.

MING: This will take about, I don't know, two minutes a side, maybe.

Three minutes a side, then we'll flip it.

All right, how's our coconut milk here?

Not quite hot enough yet.

So it's important to not rush this, right?

Okay.

MING: It has to be hot, because you want it to cook the egg yolks.

So just let this come... see how these are so cool?

They just move around, right?

They'll hold their shape, but you really want to not fuss with it too much.

I'm just separating, because I don't want them together.

You want them to cook on one side, and then we'll flip them.

All right, so in about two minutes, we're going to take a quick break.

We're going to flip these up.

The coconut milk's going to be hot, and we can make our coconut anglaise.

So, normally, with milk.

It still works pretty well with water, right?

Those look great.

MING: Right?

So this is about five minutes, all in.

Give at a flip like that.

All right, so about two minutes on that side.

Okay.

MING: Because it's basically already cooked.

We have our coconut milk.

Same tempering technique.

We're going to add just a little bit of coconut milk in the beginning.

There's fat in coconut milk, right?

Yeah, you can see how thick it is.

MING: Right?

Same thing, you put in about 50%.

Don't rush this, right?

There's no rush.

You dump this all in... All right, so just like Joanne said, about 50% is fine.

I think when you hit it off a wooden spoon, that cools it already, takes it from, you know, 212 to, like, approximately 198.2.

Don't you think so, Harvard girl?

196.

MING: 196.

Oh, there's 194.

(Chang laughs) All right, so that looks about good.

So then we can dump it back in here.

Add the rest.

MING: So, again, the protein of the egg yolks is what's going to thicken this up.

And a little less sugar than normal in both the meringue and actually the anglaise, because coconut milk is naturally sweet, right?

It's already sweet, yeah.

MING: And, obviously, the meringue has plenty of sweetness, so this is a dairy-free île flottante.

Just a touch less sugar.

I don't do diets, you don't do diets, right?

Just be moderate.

Right, everything in moderation.

MING: You can't eat four Flour sticky buns a day.

Although I've tried.

(both laughing) I can barely even eat one.

MING: So I love... We were discussing, I love...

So Flour is a lot of wheat, a lot of eggs, a lot of sugar, right?

Yeah.

MING: And with this whole trend in this country and the world about, you know, gluten-free, you have a lot of gluten-free products, but you also have lowered your sugar.

We have.

MING: And you've changed flour using whole wheat, right?

You want to tell us what you're doing at Flour?

Yeah, we have a whole-grain campaign, where we're taking as many products as possible and introducing whole grains into them.

So our brownie is made with 50% rye flour.

Our double chocolate cookies, 50% rye flour.

We just changed, our carrot cake and our midnight chocolate cake are both made with a strain of wheat flour called khorasan flour.

MING: Right.

So we've been slowly introducing whole grains into all of the pastries.

MING: That's awesome.

And it makes it more flavorful, as well.

MING: I mean, I love whole grains, but the hardest thing-- correct me if I'm wrong-- is trying to make a really good bread, with the chew, using gluten-free flour.

Oh, that's really hard.

MING: That's the hardest thing of all, I think, with gluten-free.

I don't think you can get, like, the chew that you're used to with an artisan bread.

MING: A vraie baguette, that crisp within the chew... Yeah, no, not yet.

MING: No, not yet.

Yeah, but I've had some great croissants and, you know, pastries, you know.

Oh, you have?

MING: Laminated... Gluten-free?

MING: Yeah, gluten-free.

Wow.

MING: Right, but it's laden with butter, so that kind of covered it, you know?

Yeah.

MING: All right, so we've got to go, same thing.

I'm waiting for, I can hold a line.

It's almost there, right?

Just like you did.

So do you have to be careful, right?

Because scrambled eggs can happen.

Just, you're, like, "Oh, shoot, scrambled eggs."

And so you keep going.

It's almost there.

You can see it getting thicker.

MING: Yeah, thicker on the side.

And traditionally, crème anglaise... And traditionally this dessert, the crème anglaise is served cold, right?

But I'm going to try, just...

I like temperature differences.

We're going to serve this, you know, warm, not hot, but warm with the île flottante on top.

All right?

What do you think there, pro?

All right, I think we're good there.

Yeah, I think it looks good.

MING: And this you have to strain, because...

In case there is a little bit of eggs that overcooked.

Or eggshell.

Awesome.

Great.

MING: Thank you.

If you don't mind, just keep that stirring.

Yep.

MING: And I'm going to go ahead and plate up our île flottante.

So this looks great.

Take one of these.

Like that.

Take our second one.

It's beautiful.

MING: And, again, light flavoring from the star anise and the cinnamon stick in the water.

So can you make these ahead of time?

MING: 100%.

Okay.

MING: Oh, yeah, you can totally make these ahead of time.

And of course you could have the anglaise chilled, if you want.

So, you know what, we're going to let this chill.

This is too hot-- I don't want to melt the flottante.

So we're going to go put this in the fridge for about three, four, five minutes.

Okay.

MING: Then we'll plate this up.

Don't go away.

Île flottante, dairy-free.

Excellent.

MING: So, you know, about five, eight minutes in the fridge.

That looks beautiful.

MING: Thicked up, but it's still a little bit warm.

Okay.

MING: Which I don't mind.

So we'll cover this.

Floating island, this is... Lay some Ming on top of that for me.

Amazing that it's dairy-free, too.

MING: Yeah, right?

I love that.

Île flottante, floating island.

Awesome.

Beautiful.

Just a little cinnamon on top, please, Jojo.

Yeah, there you go.

Just a little bit of mint.

All right.

We are in business.

Beautiful.

MING: Let's go eat some meringue.

Boom-- come on, wah!

MING: All right, Joanne, a little blanc de blanc from Napa Valley.

Cheers to you.

Cheers.

MING: Champagne and dessert always goes well together.

Delicious.

MING: Top that.

All right, let's try this pavlova.

I am so excited.

MING: Oh, I love this.

Let me try your curd first.

Oh, my God.

That curd is so good.

It's really rich.

A lot of butter.

Oh, this meringue is beautiful!

MING: It did come out nice.

Your meringue is so good, because it's crunchy then chewy, right?

Exactly.

That's why you bake it for a couple of hours and then let it sit.

MING: Oh, my God, this is a great dessert.

How did that come out?

This is fabulous.

MING: Is it all right?

I can't believe it's dairy-free.

It's so good.

MING: Wow.

So how many books do you have right now?

Four books, I'm working on my fifth.

And, actually, this pavlova will be in the new book, Pastry Love, which comes out next fall.

MING: Cheers.

Cheers!

Thank you!

MING: You're the best.

Thank you so much.

MING: No wonder you won the James Beard Award for best person in the world, right?

You're the only one ever... Love you.

Thank you.

MING: Thank you so much, continued success.

I love you all out there.

And as always, peace and good eating.