>> Ted: COMING UP NEXT ON"ARIZONA HORIZON," PHOENIX MAYOR KATE GALLEGO JOINS US IN STUDIO TO DISCUSS A VARIETY OF CITY ISSUES INCLUDING AN UPCOMING BOND ELECTION AND WE'LL CRUNCH NUMBERS FROM LATEST JOB'S REPORT WHICH WAS STRONGER THAN EXPECTED.

WE'LL LEARN HOW GENETIC CHANGES IN GRAY WOLVES AN ALTER AN ENTIRE FOREST ECOSYSTEM.

THAT'S NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

>> WELCOME TO ARIZONA.

A NUMBER OF AMERICANS KILLED IN HAMAS WAS UPDATED TODAY.

>> WE CAN UPDATE THE NUMBER OF AMERICANS THAT WE KNOW HAVE BEEN KILLED TO 27 AND THE NUMBER OF UNACCOUNTED FOR STANDS TODAY AT 14.

WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO SUPPORT AND INFORM THE FAMILIES.

NOW SADLY, FIVE MORE FAMILIES HAVE GOTTEN THE WORST POSSIBLE NEWS THAN ANY FAMILY CAN CONCEIVE.

>> Ted: ISRAEL CONTINUES BOMBING WITH A GROUND INVASION.

THE UN REPORTS MORE THAN 300,000 PEOPLE IN GAZA HAVE BEEN FORCED FROM THAT HOMES AND U.S. OFFICIALS SAY THINGS COULD GET WORSE BECAUSE OF, QUOTE, OTHER COMPLICATED CONDITIONS IN GAZA.

>> HA MARYLANDHAMAS IS USING SHIELDS TO TRY TO PROTECT THEMSELVES OR INFRASTRUCTURE OR WEAPONS.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE BASIC FACTS THAT ISRAEL HAS TO DEAL WITH.

OF COURSE, CIVILIANS SHOULD NOT BE USED IN ANY WAY AS THE TARGETS OF MILITARY OPERATIONS.

THEY ARE NOT THE TARGET OF THE ISRAEL'S OPERATIONS.

>> Ted: SO FAR THE ATTACKS HAVE KILLED 1200 PEOPLE AND 1400 1400 PALESTINIANS KILLED.

>>> STEVE 60s SCALISE WAS NEAR NARROWLY NOMINATED AND ELI CRANE OR HOW THEY'LL VOTE.

>>> KRIS MAYES IS INVESTIGATING THE CITY OF TEMPE'S USE OF PUBLIC FUNDS TO INFLUENCE THE FUND OF THE MAY 16th VOTE ON THE ARIZONA COYOTES ARENA AND ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT.

THE PUBLIC REPORTS THIS IS AN OPEN MEETING LAWS AND HIRING A CONSULTING FIRM AND PAYING THAT FIRM FOR SERVICE TAZ ARE SERVICES AS OPPOSED TO GOVERNMENT BODIES.

CURRENT AND FORMER CITY OFFICIALS TELL THE REPUBLIC THEY DID NOTHING WRONG AND VOTERS DEFEATED THE ARENA PROJECT.

>>> ONLY SEVEN MILLION AMERICANS HAVE RECEIVED THE UPDATED COVID VACCINE COMPARED TO 18 MILLION RECEIVING AN UPDATED SHOT LAST YEAR AT THIS TIME.

NUMBERS FROM THE U.S. HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND CDC OF REPORTS OF SHORTAGES TO BE A FACTOR IN THE LOWER RATES OF IMMUNIZATION AND THE VACCINES ARE SHIFTED TO THE PRIVATE MARKET WHICH MEANS THERE'S PROBLEM WITH INSURANCE COVERAGE.

>>> AN UPCOMING SPECIAL BOND ELECTION AND MASSIVE HOMELESS INCANTMENT AND FOR AN UPDATE, WE WELCOME PHOENIX MAYOR KATE GALLEGO.

BOND ELECTION, A BIG DEAL.

BUT I WANT TO START WITH THE ZONE BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS THROUGHOUT THE WEEK.

A DEADLINE TO GET THIS THING CLEARED OUT.

WHAT'S THE STATUS RIGHT NOW?

>> THE CITY OF PHOENIX HAS BEEN WORKING DAY AND NIGHT TO ADDRESS CHALLENGES AROUND HOMELESSNESS AND WE KNOW THIS IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF RESIDENTS ARE FEELING RIGHT NOW AND WE'RE SEEING RECORD EVICTIONS AND PEOPLE ARE FEELING UNCERTAIN AROUND HOUSING.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR YEARS TO FRIDAY ON BRING ON A BETTER SUPPLY OF HOUSING OR SHORT-TERM HOUSING OR SHELTER BEDS AND WE HAVE SEVERAL NEW PROJECTS OPENING SOON.

THERE'S HOTELS CONVERTED TO HOUSING AS WELL AS PURPOSE-BUILT PROJECTS FOR HELPING PEOPLE WHO FACED HOUSING CHALLENGES.

WE'RE LOOKING AS FAR AHEAD AS POSSIBLE TO GET PEOPLE IN THESE BEDS AND LOOKING AT THAT DEADLINE TO GET PEOPLE HOUSED.

YOU MENTIONED A BOND ELECTION AND ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT OUR VOTERS HELP US SUPPORT IS MORE MONEY MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AS WELL AS FACILITIES FOR SOCIAL WORKERS WHO CAN HELP PEOPLE NAVIGATE THESE CHALLENGES.

EACH INDIVIDUAL HAS A STORY ABOUT HOW THEIR HOUSING SITUATION CAME TO BE AND FOR SOME ADDICTION IS A PART OF IT AND WE HAVE WONDERFUL NON-PROFIT PARTNERS DOING HEROIC WORK TO HELP PEOPLE FIGHT ADDICTION.

WE WANT TO PLAY A ROLE IN THE CITY IN MATCHING UP SERVICE PROVIDERS AND PEOPLE WHO NEED THAT.

>> Ted: BACK TO THE ZONE, WHAT IS THE STATUS RIGHT NOW DOWN THERE AND HOW MUCH HAS BEEN CLEANED UP AND HOW MUCH NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP BY THE NOVEMBER 4th DEADLINE.

>> SO WE HAD ANOTHER EVENT YESTERDAY WHERE WE HAD SOCIAL WORKERS AND SERVICE PROVIDERS OUT THERE HELPING PEOPLE MOVE.

WE CLEARED A FEW BLOCKS AND ABOUT 80% OF THE PEOPLE APPROACHED ACCEPTED SERVICES AND THEY HAD A GOOD OUTCOME.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO REALLY STEP UP CONSTANTLY AND FIND MORE SOLUTIONS.

IF YOU'RE WATCHING AND YOU KNOW SOMEONE WITH A HOTEL WHERE THEY WOULD BE OPEN INTO PARTNERING WITH THE CITY, WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR AND WE'RE HOPING OTHER BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT CAN PARTNER WITH US.

WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE IF THE STATE HAVE FACILITIES OR BUILDINGS USED TEMPORARILY.

THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

I MET WITH FELLOW MAYORS AND SAID, YOU KNOW, BEING ARE BEING EVICTED IN YOUR COMMUNITY AND 78% OF THE NEW BEDS ARE IN PHOENIX.

I HOPE PARTICULARLY ON THE WEST SIDE OF OUR COUNTY THERE'S MORE CHANCES FOR PEOPLE FACING HOUSING CHALLENGES TO GET SERVICES WITHOUT COMING TO PHOENIX.

WE'RE PROUD THAT WE HAVE A WONDERFUL INVESTMENT IN SERVICE PROVIDERS BUT WANT PEOPLE TO GET SERVICES CLOSER TO WHERE THEY LAST LIVED.

>> Ted: AS FAR AS PEOPLE CLEARED OUT, A, WHERE ARE THEY GOING AND ONE DAY YOU SEE A MASSIVE INCANTMENT AND THEN IT'S GONE.

HOW DO YOU CONTROL THAT SITUATION LOGISTICALLY?

>> SO WE HAVE VERY SPECIFIC GUIDELINES FROM DIFFERENT LEVELS OF COURTS.

THE CITY OF PHOENIX IS FOLLOWING LITIGATION TO THE CIVIL LIBERTY'S UNION, ACLU WITH SPECIFIC GUIDELINES MAKING IT COMPLICATED AND THEN WE HAVE COMPETING LITIGATION IN SUPERIOR COURT.

IT CAN BE CONFLICTING AND WE'RE WORKING AS HARD AS POSSIBLE TO SHORE UP.

WE HAVE LITIGATION TELLING US THAT WE HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL AND FOLLOW UP A FAIRLY PRESCRIBED SET OF POLICIES AND PROPERTY PROTECTIONS AND ANOTHER SET OF LITIGATION THAT GOES AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

AND SO WE ARE DOING OUR BEST TO COMPLY WITH ALL ORDER ORDERS.

IF THE TWO COURTS COULD TALK, TO EACH OTHER, THAT WOULD BE A GIFT AND IF WE COULD JUST AGREE.

>> Ted: NOVEMBER 4th IS COMING UP AND IS IT GOING TO BE CLEAR BY THEN IN.

>> OUR TEAM IS MAKING A HEROIC EFFORT AND THERE ARE TRADE-OFFS BETWEEN HOW MUCH TO PROVIDE PERSONALIZED SERVICE AND SUCCESSFUL NAVIGATION AND MOVE QUICKLY.

>> Ted: THE BON BOND ELECTION, THERE'S ROOM FOR SHELTERED HOPELESSHOMEAND THIS IS HOW LONG?

>> 2006, THE BON ELECTION THE BOND ELECTION THAT BROUGHT THE MEDICAL ELECTION.

>> Ted: FOR THOSE NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THIS MEANS TO RESIDENTS AS FAR AS TAXES AND SECONDARY TAXES, MAKE IT SIMPLE TO US.

>> WHEN WE DO BIG PROJECTS, WE FINANCE THIS OVER A LONGER TIME PERIOD PEOPLE ARE USING IT.

SIMILAR TO YOU AND I DOING A MORTGAGE AT OUR HOUSE.

WE'RE ISSUING DEBT FOR A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT PROJECTS AND THE BIGGEST IS PUBLIC SAFETY TO REDUCE RESPONSE TIMES FOR 9-1-1 IF YOU NEED EMERGENCY MEDICAL SUPPORT OR FIREFIGHTERS.

WE'RE BUILDING NEW FIRE FACILITIES AND INVESTING IN THE QUALITY OF OUR ROADS.

WE KNOW NO ONE LIKES POTHOLES AND QUALITY OF LIFE INVESTMENTS SUCH AS LIBRARIES AND MAKE SURE MAKING SURE WE HAVE THE FACILITIES.

WE KNOW SOME ARE OLDER AND WE HAVE TO KEEP INVESTING TO HAVE THE QUALITY THAT PEOPLE DEMAND.

>> Ted: HOW WERE THE LINEUP OF THINGS GETTING ATTENTION FROM THE BOND MONEY?

HOW WAS THAT SELECTED?

>> WE HAVE HAD A COMMITTEE OF CITIZENS LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENT PROJECTS IN OUR COMMUNITY AND FROM A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS AND LIVED IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF OUR CITY TO HELP US SELECT THE TOP TIER PROJECTS.

IN A CITY OUR SIZE, WE COULD HAVE DONE THREE TIMES THE AMOUNT OF BOND WE DID AND WE AS THE COUNCIL DECIDED THAT WE COULD NOT RAISE THE TAX RATE.

RIGHT NOW PEOPLE ARE TELLING US THAT WE JUST CANNOT SEE THE TAX RATE WITH SO MANY CHALLENGES AND EXPENSES.

>> Ted: THAT'S WHY $500 MILLION?

>> WE'RE TRYING TO TIGHTEN OUR BELTS.

>> Ted: AS FAR AS THOSE TAXES ARE CONCERNED, SECONDARY TAXES, NO INCREASE FOR RESIDENTS?

>> SO THE TAX RATE WILL NOT GO UP AND THAT WAS THE GUIDANCE THAT WE DESIGNED THE PROGRAM AROUND.

>> Ted: AS FAR AS THE BOND IS CONCERNED AND AS FAR AS SOME OF THESE FACILITIES ARE CONCERNED, LET'S SAY -- WHEN IS THE VOTE, BY THE WAY?

>> TODAY MAY BE THE FIRST DAY PEOPLE WILL SEE THE BALLOTS AND THE ELECTION DAY IS NOVEMBER 7th.

WE ASK PEOPLE TO MAIL THEM BACK BY HALLOWEEN.

>> Ted: ONCE THEY'RE MAILED BACK AND IT GOES THROUGH, WHEN DOES DIRT START GETTING GETTING SHOVELED AND NEW LIBRARIES START BEING BUILT AND WHEN IS ALL OF THIS A REALITY?

>> WE WOULD ISSUE THE DEBT IN JANUARY AND A FEW MONTHS AFTER THAT WHEN YOU WOULD SEE PROJECTS MOVE FORWARD.

SOME OF THEM ARE MUCH QUICKER THAN OTHERS AND THEN WE'RE CONTINUING TO INVEST, AS WELL, BUT THIS WOULD ALLOW US TO DO THE FULL SCALE OF WHAT WE THINK WE NEED TO MEET YOUR NEEDS.

>> Ted: AS FAR AS ISSUING THE DEBT, SERVICING THE DEBT, IS THE CITY FINANCIALLY ABLE TO DO THIS AND DOES THIS MEAN ANYTHING ELSE MIGHT BE SACRIFICED?

YOU HAVE $500 MILLION HERE TO TAKE CARE OF THINGS, CORRECT?

>> WE'VE WORKED HARD ON FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT.

THIS WEEK, WE RATED WATER BONDS AND THIS IS SEPARATE FROM THE GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS THAT WE'LL BE INVESTING IN OUR WATER SYSTEM.

WE GOT A TRIPLE A RATING AND TAKING CARE OF FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT AND FACING A LOT OF DIFFERENT CHALLENGES.

WE HAD A LARGE TAX CUT THAT THE STATE CUT OUR TAXES AND SO, AGAIN, A LOT OF TIGHTENING OUR BELTS TO MEET THE NEEDS OF A GROWING CITY AND AGING INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> Ted: THAT RENTAL TAX, HOW DID THAT IMPACT PHOENIX?

>> THE FIRST FULL YEAR, $90 MILLION, EQUIVALENT OF 800 PEOPLE'S JOBS.

>> Ted: WE'VE GOT A NEW SET OF DISTRICTS NOW AND REDISTRICTING, NEW MAPS.

DOES THAT CHANGE MUCH IN WHAT HAPPENS AT CITY HALL?

>> THE DISTRICTS WILL CHANGE IN JANUARY AND EVERY TEN YEARS, WE DO NEW MAPS SO THAT EACH DISTRICT HAS THE SAME AMOUNT OF "PEOPLE" WE SAW THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF GROWTH AND THAT DISTRICT LOST THE MOST PEOPLE.

BUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, WE TRY TO HAVE DISTRICTS CONSISTENT AND SO THAT YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS WILL STAY THE SAME.

>> Ted: YOU STILL HAVE ARCADIA AND ALATUKI IN THE SAME DISTRICT?

YES.

>> Ted: DISTANT NEIGHBORS.

>> WE UNDERSTAND THERE'S SOME CHALLENGES WITH THAT, BUT THE COUNCIL DECIDED THAT HAVING THOSE VOTING RIGHT'S ACT DISTRICT WAS IMPORTANT TO RESPECT.

>> Ted: PHOENIX MAYOR KATE GALLEGO, SO MUCH GOING ON.

THANK YOU.

WE APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Ted: UP NEXT, WHY WAS LATEST U.S. JOB'S REPORT SO STRONG AND WHAT IS IT SAYING ABOUT THE ECONOMY?

>> Ted: THE U.S. ECONOMY ADDED 336,000 JOB LAST MONTH AND MORE THAN MOST ECONOMISTS PREDICTED.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN IT COMES TO INFLATION AND INTEREST RATES?

JOINING US NOW IS DENNIS HOFFMAN.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> Ted: JOB'S REPORT, WERE YOU SURPRISED?

MOST ECONOMISTS WERE SURPRISED AND HOW ABOUT YOU?

[ Laughter ] >> ECONOMISTS IN GENERAL HAVE BEEN SURPRISED FOR THE BETTER PART OF THE LAST YEAR AS THE MAJORITY OF THE ECONOMISTS FORECASTED A RECESSION, AS YOU KNOW.

THEY JUST KEEP KICKING THAT FORECAST DOWN THE ROAD.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE NEXT YEAR NOW.

SO WHY ARE THEY FORECASTING IT?

IT'S BECAUSE THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS GETTING TIGHT WITH CREDIT, INTEREST RATES ARE HIGH.

HISTORICALLY, THAT'S BROUGHT ABOUT RECESSIONS AND BROUGHT ABOUT PAIN IN THE LABOR MARKET.

WE'VE NOT SEEN THAT PAIN YET.

IT'S BECAUSE THE MARKET IS SO TIGHT AND SO RESILIENT.

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH WORKERS FOR THE JOBS THAT NEED TO BE DONE AND THAT'S A COMPLICATED LONG ISSUE, BUT UNTIL THAT UNEMPLOYMENT RATE SPIKES ABOVE 5%, IT'S NOT LIKELY TO SEE A RECESSION.

WE'RE NOT ABOVE 4%.

>> Ted: IT'S AT 3.5%.

>> WELL, UPPER THREE'S.

>> Ted: MORTGAGE RATES AT A 20-YEAR HIGH AND CREDIT CARDED RATES AT A 20-YEAR HIGH AND NOT GOING ANYWHERE SOON.

>> IT'S NOT.

>> Ted: HOW MUCH OF A BREAKING ACTION DO YOU NEED TO STEER CLEAR OF RECESSION AND TO GET THE NUMBERS BETTER?

>> THE NUMBERS ARE IN INTEREST RATES?

>> Ted: AND TO GET THE ECONOMY MOVING IN A WAY THAT ECONOMISTS DON'T SEE A RECESSION.

>> WHAT WE NEED TO SEE IS IMPROVEMENT IN THE INFLATION NUMBERS.

WE'VE GOT A NATIONAL REPORT OUT TODAY THAT INFLATION IS HANGING THERE ON AN ANNUAL BASIS IN THE UPPER THREE'S.

WE NEED TO SEE THAT FOR MORE PARTS OF THE BASKET OF GOODS, END OF THE TWO'S BEFORE THE FED IS GOING TO BE LETTING LETTING THEIR FOOT OFF THE BRAKE.

>> Ted: ARE WE STILL LOOKING AT REMNANTS OF COVID?

>> OH, SURE.

>> Ted: IS THIS THE REAL WORLD BEFORE 2020?

>> OUR LABOR MARKET HAS BEEN STRONG FOR THE LAST TEN TO 12 YEARS.

PEOPLE LIKE TO PLAY THIS GAME LIKE WHO CREATED THE MOST JOBS AS PRESIDENT AND ALL OF THAT KIND OF THING.

TEN MILLION WERE CREATED UNDER THE SECOND OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

OF COURSE, UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, ABOUT THREE MILLION WERE LOST BECAUSE OF COVID.

WE GOT 14 MILLION CREATED UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WHICH IS KIND OF IRONIC GIVEN HIS POPULARITY RIGHT NOW.

>> Ted: POLLS AND SURVEYS SHOW THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE ECONOMY.

THERE'S A NEGATIVITY OUT THERE.

>> OH, THEY'RE NOT HAPPY.

>> Ted: WHY?

>> THEY THINK IT'S WORSE THAN IT WAS IN THE SPRING OF 1980 WHEN INTEREST RATES WERE 15% AND INFLATION RATES WERE DOUBLE DIGITS, AS WERE UNEMPLOYMENT RATES.

THIS IS COULD BE FAR, FAR WORSE.

>> Ted: WHY THE IMPRESSION?

YOU GO TO THE GROCERY STORE AND GAS PUMP AND SEE THESE PRICES?

>> LITTLE THINGS THAT ARE ANNOYING.

GAS PRICES ARE ANNOYING, GROCERY IS ANNOYING.

FOR SOME PEOPLE RENT.

I'M VERY FORTUNATE.

MY WIFE AND I OWN OUR OUR OWN HOME AND IF YOU'RE A RENNER AND RENTER AND BUYING GAS, THERE'S A LOT OF PAIN.

WE LIVE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD.

POLITICS IS EVERYWHERE.

A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO POUND DAILY, DAILY, DAILY THAT THIS ECONOMY IS TERRIBLE AND THERE'S SOME BRIGHT SPOTS.

>> Ted: WITH GAS PRICES A THEY ARE AND INFLATION, RENT, THE WHOLE KIT AND CABOODLE HERE, EVENTUALLY WILL PEOPLE SAY I'VE HAD IT AND I WON'T BUY AS MUCH OF THIS AND THE ECONOMY SLOWS DOWN?

WHAT IS KEEPING THIS ECONOMY HUMMING?

>> PENT-UP SAVINGS.

RED HOT JOB MARKET AND PENT-UP SAVINGS AND THE CONSUMPTION ENGINE CONTINUES ALONG.

INTEREST RATES ARE HIGH.

I FIND IT A LITTLE BIT HUMOROUS BEGIN MY AGE, OF COURSE.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WILL SAY THE HIGHEST INTEREST RATES IN TEN, 20 YEARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, WELL, WHAT'S THE AVERAGE MORTGAGE GREAT OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS?

OF COURSE, IT'S LIKE 7.5%, 8%, THE AVERAGE.

MANY OF US IN OUR YOUNG YEARS LIVED TEN AND 12 12 -- IT WAS 15.

>> Ted: AT ONE TIME, WASN'T IT THE UPPER TEENS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Ted: THE LAST QUESTION, KICKING THE CAN OF RECESSION DOWN THE ROAD.

ARE YOU KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD OR DO YOU THINK THERE IS A CAN?

>> WELL, I THINK WE CAN DO THIS OFFLANDING THING AND AVOID THE SEVERE RECESSION AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THE STRONG POCKETS THAT WE HAVE HERE AND THERE.

AGAIN, IT MAY BE EASY FOR ME TO SAY I'M COMMUNITY FORTUNATE AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND I SEE DATA AND I CAN SEE BRIGHT SPOTS.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN, TED, THERE AREN'T PEOPLE OUT THERE SUFFERING.

>> Ted: DENNIS HOFFMAN, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANKS, TED.

GREAT TO BE HERE!

♪♪ ♪ OH THE SHARK HAS.

♪ AND HE SHOWS THEM.

♪ PEARLLY WHITES >> Ted: A NEW STUDY LOOKS AT GENETIC CHANGES IN GRAY WORLDS AND HOW THOSE CHANGES IMPACT WORLD POPULATIONS WHICH, IN TURN, IMPACT ECOSYSTEMS.

PROFESSOR, HARDWOOD TO GOOD TO HAVE YOU ANDING FOR JOINING US.

THIS WAS INTERESTING STUFF AND HOW THIS ONE PREDATOR IMPACTS SO MANY THINGS.

TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

>> IT'S AN AMAZING STORY.

IT'S IN LAKE SUPERIOR, A NATIONAL PARK AND THERE IS ONE PREDATOR, WOLVES AND ONE PREY ITEM, MOOSE.

AND SO WE WOULD HAVE A PREDATOR PREY INTERACTION AND SO THE WOLVES EAT THE MOOSE AND THEN THE MOOSE EAT WHAT IS CALLED BALSAMFIR, A TREE.

THERE'S ACTION AFFECTING THE MOOSE NUMBER AND THE MOOSE NUMBER AFFECTING THE FOREST.

WHAT I GOT INVOLVED THIS IS IT GENETICS OF THE WOLVES AND THE WOLVES ARE AN ISOLATED POPULATION AND OUT ON AN ISLAND.

THIS IS A NATIONAL PARK ABOUT 15 MILES FROM CANADA IN THE NORTHERN PART OF LAKE SUPERIOR.

AND IN 1997, A WOLF CAME ONTO THIS ISLAND ON WHAT'S CALLED AN ICE BRIDGE.

THERE WAS ICE OVER THIS 15 MILES.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, IF HE WAS BIGGER AND MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN THE WOLVES THAT WERE THERE AND HE BECAME THE DOMINANT MALE, THERE WERE INVOLVES THAT HAD BEEN THERE 30 OR 40 YEARS AND HE BECAME THE DOMINANT WOLF AND HE MADE WIT A WOLF THERE AND PRODUCED TEN OFFSPRING AND THEN, THAT MATE DIED AND HE MATED WITH ONE OF HIS DAUGHTERS FROM THE FIRST WOLF AND THEY HAD 21 OFFSPRING.

SO THIS ONE WOLF CAME OUT THERE AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, HE WAS THE FATHER OR THE ANCESTOR OF VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE THE WOLVES ON THE ISLAND.

THIS ENDED UP CAUSING A LOT OF IMBREEDING.

THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE CYCLE THAT I GOT INVOLVED IN STUDYING.

>> Ted: IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THE IMBREEDING MEANS THE POPULATION IS AFFECTED AND ONCE THAT POPULATION IS AFFECTED, MOOSE POPULATION IS AFFECTED, WHICH MEANS THE VEGETATION POPULATION IS, SO TO SPEAK, AFFECTED.

>> IT'S AN AMAZING STORY.

SO WE WERE ABLE TO PUBLISH THIS IN ONE OF THE SCIENCE MAGAZINES AND SO, WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT THIS ONE WOLF, M93, MALE 93 IS WHAT HE WAS CALLED, OLD GRAY GUY BECAUSE HE HAD KIND OF LIGHT COLORED HAIR, HE WAS BIG AND DOMINATED EVERYTHING.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, HIS ANCESTRY DOMINATED EVERYTHING AND THEN THERE WAS IMBREEDING FROM THIS AND THEN THE OFFSPRING DIDN'T DO WELL.

IN FACT, ONE OF THE LAST MALE WOLVES THERE HAD AN UNDESCENDED TESTICLE AND THIS OFTEN HAPPENS WHEN INDIVIDUALS GET IMBRED.

SO HE WAS UNABLE TO MATE.

SO THE WOLVES WERE ORDINARILY 20 TO 30 AND AFTER A FEW YEARS, THERE ARE ONLY TWO LEFT AND THIS ONE MALE, AS I SAID, ONLY HAD ONE DESCENDED TESTICLE AND HE HAD ONE JUSTIFY SPRING BY THE FEMALE AND THAT JUSTIFY OFFSPRING TIED AND THE WOLVES DIED OUT AS A RESULT OF THIS.

>> Ted: BEFORE THIS ONE WOLF CAME, THAT SEEMED LIKE THAT WAS THE CLOSED CIRCLE OF WOLVES, TOO, AND WHY DIDN'T IMBREEDING AFFECT THEM?

>> THIS WAS BEFORE GLOBAL WARMING AND EVERY OTHER YEAR, THERE WAS AN ICE BRIDGE AND THE WOLVES WERE COME FROM CANADA ACROSS THE ICE AND IT'S AMAZING.

15 MILES TO FIND THIS ISLAND AND BECOME WOLVES ON THIS ISLAND AND THIS HAPPENED DECADES BEFORE THIS AND THEN THIS WAS ONE OF THE LAST ONES THAT CAME OUT ON THE ISLAND, THIS ONE OLD GRAY GUY.

>> Ted: LAST QUESTION, BUT AS FAR AS CONSERVATION EFFORTS ARE CONCERNED, WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THE STUDY?

>> I THINK THIS IS A SIMPLE SYSTEM AND IT TELLS US WHAT HAPPENS.

GENETIC CHANGES CAN AFFECT IN A SYSTEM.

IT CAN AFFECT THE ANIMAL THAT CHANGES GENETICALLY AND AFFECTS ITS PREY AND THEN IT CAN AFFECT THE WHOLE FOREST ECOSYSTEM.

SO THIS IS REALLY A WAY WE CAN SEE THE EFFECTS OF ALL OF THIS TOGETHER.

THE SYSTEMS ARE SO COMPLICATED THAT WE CAN'T SEE THIS DIRECT EFFECT.

BUT THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE WE REALLY CAN SEE THESE IMPACTS.

>> Ted: S SOUNDS LIKE >> Ted: PHILLIP HEDRICK, CONGRATULATIONS ON THE STUDY AND THANK YOU FOR SHARING WITH US.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> PLEASURE, THANK YOU.

>> Ted: THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.