REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO A MAGICAL EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE BECAUSE OUR GUEST IS ICONIC NEW MEXICO AUTHOR, JOHN NICHOLS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>JOHN: THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME TO JOIN YOU.

>>LORENE: WELL, I GOT MY HANDS ON YOUR LATEST MEMOIR, I GOT MINE: CONFESSIONS OF A MIDLIST WRITER AND IT IS A WONDERFUL, ROLLICKING, HILARIOUS READ.

IT IS VERY HUMBLE OF YOU TO CALL YOURSELF A MIDLIST WRITER BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYONE IN THE STATE WHO HASN'T READ ONE OF YOUR BOOKS, MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR.

>>JOHN: YES.

>>LORENE: PART OF A TRILOGY, THE SECOND ONE IS THE MAGIC JOURNEY AND THE THIRD ONE IS THE NIRVANA BLUES, THAT IS ONE OF YOUR TRILOGIES.

BUT ANYWAY, I AM DELIGHTED TO HAVE YOU HERE, WELCOME.

>>JOHN: WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THE TRILOGY IS NOTEWORTHY AND WE HAVE GOT TO REMEMBER THAT NEW MEXICO HAS ONE MILLION EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE, NEW YORK CITY HAS SOMETHING LIKE THIRTEEN MILLION PEOPLE AND NOBODY IN NEW YORK CITY HAS PROBABLY EVER HEARD OF THE NEW MEXICO TRILOGY.

>>LORENE: I BET THEY HAVE HEARD OF THE MOVIE THAT WAS MADE FROM MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR .

>>JOHN: MAYBE, YEAH.

>>LORENE: AND MAKING THAT MOVIE IS A STORY THAT WE'LL GET TO BECAUSE IT WAS NOT SMOOTH SAILING.

>>JOHN: IF I HAD HAIR, I WOULD TEAR IT OUT AS AN EXAMPLE.

>>LORENE: SO YOU HAVE BEEN WRITING SINCE YOU WERE 16.

>>JOHN: YES.

>>LORENE: WHEN DID YOU KNOW YOU WANTED TO BE A WRITER?

>>JOHN: I STARTED WRITING STORIES WHEN I WAS 10 YEARS OLD AND 11 YEARS OLD AND WHEN I WAS 15 YEARS OLD, I STARTED, MY DAD DIVORCED MY STEPMOTHER AND I LIVED IN A LITTLE APARTMENT WITH MY DAD OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON, DC.

HE WAS IN WASHINGTON, DC WORKING FOR THE CIA EVERY DAY AND I WAS AT HOME, AND I WOULD PUSH LAWN MOWERS TO EARN A LITTLE MONEY AND THEN TO KILL TIME I WOULD JUST WRITE STORIES AND I WAS FASCINATED BY DAMON RUNYAN.

>>LORENE: OH YES.

>>JOHN: HE IS FROM PUEBLO, COLORADO, BUT BECAME A NEW YORK BIGSHOT AND ALL HIS STORIES IN THE PRESENT TENSE ABOUT GANGSTERS, USING SLANG, I LOVED.

AND SO THE FIRST STORIES I WROTE WHEN I WAS LIKE 15 AND 16 WERE ALL IN GANGSTER SLANG IN THE FIRST PERSON AND THAT SORT OF THING.

AND FINALLY, WHEN I WAS A JUNIOR AND SENIOR IN PREP SCHOOL, AT THE LOOMIS SCHOOL OUTSIDE OF HARTFORD, CONNECTICUT, I HAD GONE OUT WEST FOR A SUMMER AND I WROTE A NOVELLA, MY FIRST EXTENDED WORK.

IT WAS ABOUT A MESTIZO KID, WHO WAS HALF-HISPANIC HALF INDIAN, WHO TAKES HIS NATIVE AMERICAN GRANDPA UP INTO THE MOUNTAINS TO DIE, BECAUSE SOMEWHERE I HEARD THAT IN SOME INDIAN CULTURES IF YOU'RE BLIND YOU CAN'T SEE YOUR WAY TO HEAVEN OR THE HAPPY HUNTING GROUNDS AND SO THE GRANDFATHER WANTED TO DIE AS CLOSE TO PARADISE AS HE COULD GET.

SO THIS KID, HIS GRANDSON, LEADS HIM INTO THE MOUNTAINS SO THAT HE CAN DIE AND THAT WAS THE FIRST KIND OF NOVEL TYPE BOOK THAT I WROTE.

AND THEN, IN COLLEGE, I PROBABLY WROTE TWO NOVELS A YEAR JUST FOR FUN, NEVER FOR GRADES, NEVER FOR CLASSES, NEVER FOR ANY OF THAT AND I JUST LOVED WRITING.

I MEAN INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE BAR ON SATURDAY NIGHT, I WOULD JUST SIT IN MY ROOM AND TYPE OR WRITE ON PADS OF PAPER OR WHATEVER AND I LOVED IT AND THEY WERE TERRIBLE BOOKS, THE WRITING WAS JUST AWFUL.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU WEAR MANY HATS BECAUSE YOU ARE AN AUTHOR, A SCREENWRITER, A PHOTOGRAPHER, A MUSICIAN, AS WE WILL SEE LATER.

BUT THERE IS ALSO AN ELEMENT OF YOU ARE ALSO POLITICALLY VERY ACTIVE AND PERHAPS SOME OF THOSE EARLY NOVELS WERE YOUR POLITICAL SCREEDS OR I DON'T KNOW, MANIFESTOS DISGUISED AS NOVELS.

>>JOHN: ONE OF THE NOVELS I WROTE WHEN I WAS ABOUT 18 YEARS OLD, WAS CALLED DON'T BE FORLORN .

>>LORENE: OH.

>>JOHN: AND IT WAS BASED ON THE MURDER OF EMMETT TILL.

>>LORENE: OH GOSH.

>>JOHN: WHICH HAD HAPPENED JUST A FEW YEARS EARLIER AND I WAS VERY ENRAGED.

I WAS LIVING IN VIRGINIA AT THE TIME, WE LIVED IN RURAL VIRGINIA, WHICH WAS TOTALLY SEGREGATED, TOTALLY, IT WAS APARTHEID, IT WAS JUST TERRIBLE.

>>LORENE: OH YEAH.

>>JOHN: I DID WRITE THAT BOOK WHEN I WAS ABOUT 18, BUT I WROTE IT SO BADLY, I WAS OUTRAGED AT EVERYTHING.

BUT EVERYTHING THAT I WROTE WAS A CLICHÉ, SORT OF, THAT I CAN IMAGINE AN AFRICAN AMERICAN PERSON READING AND JUST GOING, "OH MY GOD," AND FLIPPING IT ON THE TABLE AND STOMPING ON IT.

IT WAS VERY SELF-CONSCIOUS, BUT I HAD THE RIGHT IDEA BUT THE WRONG WAY OF DOING IT.

AND I DIDN'T REALLY BECOME POLITICAL UNTIL I GOT OUT OF COLLEGE AND WOUND UP IN NEW YORK CITY, LIVING IN A TENEMENT, IN A LITTLE THREE ROOM APARTMENT WHERE YOU COULD PUT YOUR HANDS OUT AND TOUCH EITHER WALL.

AND I VISITED GUATEMALA AND WAS JUST TORN APART BY THE POVERTY OF GUATEMALA AND THE FACT THAT THE UNITED STATES KIND OF CONTROLLED EVERYTHING.

>>LORENE: THE UNITED FRUIT COMPANY.

>>JOHN: THE UNITED FRUIT COMPANY, AND YADA YADA YADA, AND SO GUATEMALA JUST BLEW MY HEAD OFF, I HAD NEVER SEEN PEOPLE SO POOR, FILARIAL WORMS IN THEIR EYEBALLS, PEOPLE WHO DELIBERATELY MAIMED THEMSELVES IN ORDER TO BEG AND IT WAS ALL ON US.

I MEAN WE CONTROLLED THREE-QUARTERS OF THE COUNTRY.

THEN I CAME BACK AND GOT INVOLVED IN CIVIL RIGHTS, THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT, AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO BY THE TIME I WAS 22 OR 23, THEN I STARTED TURNING OUT REALLY RADICAL NOVELS THAT WERE HORRIBLE, BUT THEY WERE REALLY SELF-CONSCIOUSLY POLITICAL.

I MEAN I WOULD START A BOOK LIKE F. SCOTT FITZGERALD, A LOVELY PARTY YOU KNOW IN THE NORTH OF LONG ISLAND AND AFTER ABOUT 20 PAGES, MY MAIN CHARACTER WOULD JUMP ON A TABLE AND START YELLING AT EVERYBODY ABOUT THE LAST 200 YEARS OF IMPERIAL WESTERN HISTORY IN SOUTHEAST ASIA, THE FRENCH IN VIETNAM, THEN THE AMERICANS IN VIETNAM AND THAT DESTROYED EVERY BOOK THAT I WROTE.

>>LORENE: YOU MOVED TO NEW MEXICO IN 1969.

>>JOHN: YES >>LORENE: YOU HAD COME AS A TEENAGER.

>>JOHN: I CAME WHEN I WAS 16 YEARS OLD.

I WORKED AS A FARMER FOR A FARMER IN VIRGINIA WHO HAD A BROTHER IN LLANO QUEMADO JUST SOUTH OF TAOS, NEW MEXICO.

I TOOK A BUS OUT TO ALBUQUERQUE, HITCHHIKED UP TO TAOS AND I HELPED THIS MAN MUD PLASTER HIS HOUSE.

>>LORENE: OH MY.

>>JOHN: FOR ABOUT 10 DAYS OR TWO WEEKS OR WHATEVER AND HE TOOK ME OUT TO THE TAOS PUEBLO AND I WATCHED WOMEN "ENJARADORAS" MUD PLASTERING THE RANCHOS CHURCH, WHICH REALLY IMPRESSED ME AND I LOVED THE FACT THAT EVERYBODY SPOKE SPANISH.

>>LORENE: YOU WERE RAISED VERY MULTILINGUAL, FRENCH, SPANISH.

>>JOHN: WELL I WAS RAISED IN A MULTILINGUAL FAMILY.

MY MOM WAS FRENCH, BUT SHE WAS FROM BRITTANY SO SHE ALSO COULD SPEAK THE BRETON LANGUAGE, AS WELL AS THE FRENCH LANGUAGE, AND THEN MY FRENCH GRANDFATHER HAD A JOB IN BARCELONA, SPAIN.

SO MY MOTHER ALSO SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN BARCELONA, SPAIN AND SO SHE SPOKE MULTIPLE LANGUAGES BUT SHE DIED WHEN I WAS TWO YEARS OLD.

BUT MEANWHILE MY DAD SPOKE FRENCH AND HE SPOKE RUSSIAN AND HE SPOKE SOME CHINESE AND SO I ALWAYS FELT REALLY COMFORTABLE BEING IN MIXED ETHNIC GROUPS AND LANGUAGES AND THAT KIND OF THING.

AND ALSO, I REMEMBER READING THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA BY HEMMINGWAY, I THINK IT WAS IN LIFE MAGAZINE WHEN I WAS ABOUT 12 YEARS OLD AND JUST READING THAT MADE ME ALSO WANT TO LEARN SPANISH AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I AM IN NEW MEXICO AND 16 YEARS OLD "Y TODO EL MUNDO HABLANDO, PLATICANDO EN ESPANOL" AND I WAS SO EXCITED, I WANT TO COME BACK SOMEDAY.

>>LORENE: AND YOU DID.

>>JOHN: I DID.

>>LORENE: YOU DID AND YOU ARE HERE, YOU'RE GOING TO STAY PUT.

>>JOHN: YEAH.

>>LORENE: YES.

YOUR MOM I DO WANT TO GO RIGHT TO THERE SINCE YOU MENTIONED YOUR MOM.

THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL BOOK CALLED GOODBYE, MONIQUE: REQUIEM FOR A BRIEF MARRIAGE.

>>JOHN: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND SO YOUR MOM DIED WHEN YOU WERE TWO.

>>JOHN: I WAS TWO AND SHE WAS 27 YEARS OLD AND SHE DIED OF AN ENDOCARDITIS INFECTION INSIDE HER HEART, A STAPH INFECTION, AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE PENICILLIN YET, IT WAS 1942, AND IT WAS JUST COMING OUT ONTO THE MARKET AND IT KILLED HER IN TWO WEEKS.

AND WHEN I WAS 53, I GOT THE SAME DISEASE IN MY HEART.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.

>>JOHN: AND IT ALMOST KILLED ME, THROUGH A HEPERIN LOCK IN MY THROAT I TOOK PENICILLIN AND GENTAMICIN FOR A MONTH AND THAT KILLED THE INFECTION, BUT THEN THE INFECTION HAD KILLED MY MITRAL VALVE, SO I HAD TO HAVE OPEN-HEART SURGERY.

>>LORENE: DID THEY REPLACE THE VALVE?

>>JOHN: YEAH.

>>LORENE: SYNTHETIC OR PIG VALVE?

>>JOHN: EXCUSE ME?

>>LORENE: WHICH KIND OF VALVE DID THEY PUT IN?

>>JOHN: YOU KNOW THEY PUT IN AN ANULO PLASTIC RING VALVE.

>>LORENE: AH.

>>JOHN: WHICH MEANT, THAT I DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE COUMADIN ALL THE TIME.

>>LORENE: YES, THE BLOOD THINNER.

>>JOHN: I HAVE GOTTEN 26 YEARS OF LIFE SINCE THEN.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>JOHN: YOU KNOW, IT SAVED MY LIFE.

>>LORENE: BUT PEOPLE WOULDN'T TALK TO YOU ABOUT YOUR MOM, YOU KNOW.

>>JOHN: NO, MY DAD COULDN'T TALK ABOUT IT, HE ALWAYS CONSIDERED HER THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE AND HE COULDN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT HER.

AND HE GOT INTO A BIG FIGHT WITH MY FRENCH GRANDMOTHER OVER CUSTODY OF ME WHEN I WAS A LITTLE KID AND SO MY DAD MARRIED MY STEPMOTHER WHO ADOPTED ME.

>>LORENE: TO PRESENT A MORE STABLE DOMESTIC SITUATION.

>>JOHN: SO I WOULD BE IN A LEGAL DOMESTIC SITUATION.

AND MY STEPMOTHER WAS LIKE A BORDERLINE MOTHER WHO HAD A TERRIBLE TEMPER AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT LIVING WITH HER AND SHE WAS VERY ABUSIVE.

AND MY DAD DIVORCED HER, LEFT HOME WHEN I WAS FIFTEEN YEARS OLD.

AND MEANWHILE HE SENT ME TO A PREP SCHOOL IN CONNECTICUT, LOOMIS SCHOOL OUTSIDE OF HARTFORD, CONNECTICUT TO GET ME OUT OF THE HOUSE AND I NEVER REALLY WENT BACK TO THE HOUSE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: I DID THAT SO THAT I WOULD NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH MY STEPMOTHER, BUT I KEPT UP A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER UNTIL SHE DIED AT AGE 90.

BECAUSE SHE HAD TWO CHILDREN WITH MY DAD, MY BROTHERS DAVE AND TIM AND I REALLY LOVE MY BROTHERS.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>JOHN: AND SO I KEPT MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY STEPMOTHER ALTHOUGH I WAS MORE AFRAID OF HER WHEN I WAS 71 YEARS OLD THAN WHEN I HAD BEEN FIVE YEARS OLD.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, OH MY GOODNESS.

>>JOHN: SO YEAH, MONIQUE GOT WIPED OUT OF MY LIFE.

>>LORENE: WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH AUTHOR JOHN NICHOLS AND SO YOU MUST HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT HER, YOU DID ALL THIS RESEARCH, IT'S ALMOST LIKE FORENSIC BIOGRAPHY.

HOW MUCH DATA DID YOU FINALLY ACCUMULATE BECAUSE IT WAS WAY MORE THAN THIS LOVELY BOOK WORTH.

>>JOHN: I ACCUMULATED 20 YEARS OF DATA, IT TOOK ME 20 YEARS TO WRITE THE BOOK.

I WENT THROUGH, WHEN MY DAD DIED IN 1998, I WENT TO TEXAS TO A LITTLE TOWN, SMITHVILLE, WHERE HE MOVED AND I GOT ALL HIS ARCHIVES, BROUGHT THEM BACK TO TAOS AND I SPENT THREE YEARS GOING THROUGH EVERY FILE FOLDER AND LETTER IN THAT DIARY AND A LOT OF THAT WAS ABOUT MONIQUE.

AND I ALSO HAD RELATIVES IN EUROPE WHO WENT INTO THEIR BASEMENTS AND FOUND CARDBOARD BOXES FULL OF LETTERS AND JOURNALS, YOU KNOW, I GOT LETTERS THAT MY MOM WROTE IN FRENCH WHEN SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD AND SEVEN YEARS OLD, I GOT HER TEENAGE JOURNALS IN FRENCH, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.

AND SO IN THE BEGINNING I WROTE A BIG FAMILY SAGA BECAUSE I HAD MY DAD'S DIARIES, I HAD MY MOTHER'S DIARIES, HAD ALL THIS STUFF WHEN THEY WERE GROWING UP.

BUT I COULD NEVER... >>LORENE: IT WAS TOO BIG.

>>JOHN: IT WAS TOO BIG, IT WAS TOO BIG TO CONTROL AND FINALLY I JUST NARROWED IT DOWN TO THE FOUR YEARS THAT MY MOM AND DAD HAD TOGETHER.

>>LORENE: IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

>>JOHN: BECAUSE I STARTED OUT JUST WANTING TO GET TO KNOW AND HONOR MY MOTHER.

>>LORENE: WELL, IT IS A DREAM OF EVERYONE WHO HAS AN ABSENT LOVED ONE THAT THEY NEVER GOT TO KNOW.

TO BE ABLE TO FLESH HER OUT OF WHAT A LOVELY WOMAN AND SOME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE SO ALIVE, I SEE YOUR RESEMBLANCE TO YOUR MOM.

THIS IS A BOOK THAT I REALLY, REALLY LOVE.

NOW WE HAVE SO MANY BOOKS TO TALK ABOUT BUT I COULDN'T... >>JOHN: WHEN I WROTE THAT BOOK, I THOUGHT, OKAY, NOW MY LIFE IS COMPLETE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE TO WRITE ANYMORE STUFF.

>>LORENE: NOW YOU KNOW YOUR MOM, NO LONGER THAT MYSTERIOUS, YOU KNOW AND YOU WERE ONLY TWO.

SO YOU HAVE TWO MEMOIRS, ONE, THIS ONE, I GOT MINE , WHICH IS WHEN THE PHONE JUST CAME OUT, I AM SO HAPPY.

BUT YOU ALSO HAVE ANOTHER MEMOIR FOR THE OTHER SIDE OF YOU, ONE OF YOUR OTHER SIDES MY HEART BELONGS TO NATURE: A MEMOIR IN PHOTOGRAPHS AND PROSE.

>>JOHN: YEAH.

>>LORENE: SO WE ARE GOING TO DO ANOTHER INTERVIEW, WE WILL TALK ABOUT YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR FATHER AND YOUR GRANDFATHER.

>>JOHN: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND THE SKILLS AS A NATURALIST THAT YOU WERE RAISED WITH THAT MAKES THAT SUCH AND EXTRAORDINARY BOOK, BUT YOU ARE SO WELL KNOWN FOR THE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR AND THE WHOLE TRILOGY, AGAIN WE WILL LOOK AT THEM AND THIS WAS MADE A MOVIE, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT AND THE MAGIC JOURNEY, IS THIS YOUR FAVORITE BOOK?

>>JOHN: YEAH, THE MAGIC JOURNEY HAS EVERYTHING BUT THE KITCHEN SINK IN IT.

IT IS ALSO MUCH MORE OVERTLY POLITICAL THEN THE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR .

THE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR IS ABOUT A COMMUNITY FIGHTING NOT TO BE DESTROYED BY DEVELOPMENT RIGHT?

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>JOHN: THE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR REALLY IS KIND OF ABOUT CULTURAL GENOCIDE, AN ATTEMPT FOR CULTURAL GENOCIDE.

BUT IT IS ALSO VERY HUMOROUS.

>>LORENE: AND IT IS VERY TENDER.

>>JOHN: IT IS TENDER, BUT PEOPLE LAUGH A LOT AND THEY DON'T TEND TO UNDERSTAND JUST HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO BE REALLY POOR AND TO BE REALLY, YOU KNOW TO FIGHT PREJUDICE EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE.

POVERTY ISN'T FUN AND THE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR IS FUN DESPITE ITS POVERTY AND THE BOOK YOU KNOW HAS SOME HEAVY-DUTY STUFF IN IT.

BUT I FELT AFTER WRITING THE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR THAT I REALLY WANTED TO PRODUCE A BOOK THAT REALLY GOT TO THE TRUTH OF WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE A VICTIM OF THE PARTICULAR ECONOMIC SYSTEM THAT WE LIVE UNDER.

>>LORENE: AND IT IS SET IN A MYTHOLOGICAL OR FICTIONAL CITY CALLED CHAMISAVILLE, IN CHAMISAVILLE COUNTY IN NEW MEXICO, ABOUT LAND, WATER, RACE AND HISTORY AND HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU WROTE IT?

>>JOHN: I WAS 34 WHEN MILAGRO GOT PUBLISHED AND I WAS 38 WHEN MAGIC JOURNEY GOT PUBLISHED.

>>LORENE: AH HA.

>>JOHN: BUT I WORKED ON IT FOR YEARS.

>>LORENE: I AM SURE.

>>JOHN: I MEAN BEFORE I WROTE THE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR CAME OUT.

>>LORENE: THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME TO TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH IN THE PROCESS OF HAVING A MOVIE MADE, BECAUSE THE ONE THAT FINALLY WAS MADE BY ROBERT REDFORD WAS NOT ALL HAPPY EXPERIENCE FOR YOU.

LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW LONG IT TOOK, WHO WROTE THE SCREENPLAY, BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF SCREENPLAYS.

>>JOHN: THERE WERE A LOT OF SCREENPLAYS WRITTEN, IT WAS A VERY UNHAPPY EXPERIENCE.

IT WENT OUT ON FILM OPTIONS ALMOST THE YEAR IT WAS PUBLISHED AND I LIVED ON OPTION PAYMENTS, MY FAMILY LIVED FOR YEARS AND THEN THE PRODUCERS WHO HAD THE OPTION, WHO HAD MADE A FILM CALLED THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MISS JANE PITTMAN.

>>LORENE: OH YES.

>>JOHN: WHICH WAS QUITE WELL KNOWN.

BUT THEY NEVER COULD GET THE MOVIE MADE AND SO THEN ROBERT REDFORD WANTED THE OPTION, CHEECH MARIN, A COMEDIAN WANTED THE OPTION.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE WANTED OPTIONS INCLUDING A MAN NAMED MONTEZUMA ESPARZA, WHO HAD NO MONEY.

>>LORENE: HE HAD A LITTLE PBS CONTRACT.

>>JOHN: WHAT HE DID WAS HE GOT A GRANT FROM THE ENDOWMENT OF THE HUMANITIES AND FROM THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA TO MAKE BASICALLY A SMALL FILM WITH PROBABLY A LOT OF NORTHERN NEW MEXICO AND NEW MEXICO CHARACTERS IN IT.

AND THEN ROBERT REDFORD WENT TO ESPARZA AND SAID, "LET'S SIGN A JOINT VENTURE AGREEMENT."

AND ESPARZA'S EYES WENT OUT OF HIS HEAD, HE SAID, "OH, MY GOSH, THIS IS MY OPPORTUNITY TO BREAK INTO HOLLYWOOD."

AND SO HE AND REDFORD SIGNED A JOINT VENTURE AGREEMENT WHERE UPON EVERYTHING WAS BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION.

AND WHEN ROBERT REDFORD CAME TO NEW MEXICO TO ACTUALLY DIRECT THE MOVIE, EVERY EDITION OF THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN AND THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL HAD AN ARTICLE ABOVE THE FOLD ON ROBERT REDFORD BUYING AN ICE CREAM CONE YOU KNOW IN SANTA FE OR ROBERT REDFORD DOING THIS OR ROBERT REDFORD... >>LORENE: BUT THERE WERE OTHER ARTICLES TOO, THAT REFLECTED ON YOU BECAUSE THEY WERE ARTICLES THAT SAID, "FILM CREW, FILMING JOHN NICHOLS' MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR LEAVES GUM WRAPPERS ON THE BEACH," SO YOU HAD GUILT BY ASSOCIATION.

>>JOHN: GUILT BY ASSOCIATION AND ALSO WHEN REDFORD CAME TO NEW MEXICO HE WAS PROBABLY THE MOST SUCCESSFUL ACTOR IN THE UNITED STATES AND HE HAD JUST MADE ONE MOVIE, ORDINARY PEOPL.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: WHICH JUST GOT EVERY ACADEMY AWARD AND EVERY ACADEMY AWARD NOMINATION ON EARTH.

MILAGRO WAS HIS SECOND BOOK AND HE WAS TOTALLY JUST DISTRACTED BY EVERYTHING ELSE, I MEAN HE WAS SO CONFUSED AND DISTRACTED AND IT WAS A MOVIE THAT WAS A MIRACLE IT EVER GOT PUT TOGETHER.

IT WAS SO CLUMSY, AND REDFORD, I WAS HIRED TO DO A SCRIPT FOR A WHILE AND REDFORD HIRED ANOTHER SCRIPTWRITER AND THEN ANOTHER SCRIPTWRITER THEN ANOTHER SCRIPTWRITER.

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM FOR ME IS I AM THE ONE PERSON THAT LIVES IN NEW MEXICO.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: AND THAT I HAD WORKED FOR 17 YEARS TO BUILD, YOU KNOW, A POLITICAL FOUNDATION WITH PEOPLE I WAS WORKING WITH ON JUSTICE AND WATER RIGHTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND PEOPLE ALL OF A SUDDEN STARTED COMING UP ON ME AND SAID, YOU'VE SOLD OUT, YOU MUST BE A MILLIONAIRE NOW.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>JOHN: ROBERT REDFORD IS MAKING YOUR MOVIE.

AND I COULDN'T TELL PEOPLE THAT I ACTUALLY SOLD IT FOR A SONG, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T MAKE MUCH MONEY OFF OF IT OR ANYTHING.

AND PEOPLE GOT BITTER BECAUSE THEY WANTED JOBS ON THE MOVIE AND I HAD NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT GIVING JOBS ON THE MOVIE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: SO THEN THEY SORT OF HATED ME FOR NOT HELPING THEM GET JOBS ON THE MOVIE.

>>LORENE: WHAT AN AWFUL EXPERIENCE.

>>JOHN: SO IT WAS REALLY A VERY UNCOMFORTABLE EXPERIENCE AND FINALLY THE MOVIE GOT MADE, I DON'T KNOW HOW BECAUSE IT WAS SO UNCOORDINATED AND SO DISORGANIZED AND THEN EVERYBODY LEFT NEW MEXICO.

THEY WEREN'T FROM NEW MEXICO EXCEPT ME.

>>LORENE: AND THERE YOU WERE.

>>JOHN: THE MOVIE GOT SUED BY REIES TIJERINA AND PEOPLE WORKING ON THE MOVIE ABOUT HIS LIFE.

>>LORENE: WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT IN THIS SEGMENT, BUT YOU HADN'T SEEN THE MOVIE AT ALL.

>>JOHN: NO.

>>LORENE: AND YOU WENT INTO THE THEATER.

>>JOHN: YEAH.

>>LORENE: FULL OF FEAR AND TREMBLING THINKING, "OH MY GOD."

>>JOHN: IT IS GOING TO BE A RACIST, PATRONIZING MOVIE.

>>LORENE: AND SO WHAT WAS YOUR VERDICT?

>>JOHN: THE VERDICT WAS THE FIRST PEOPLE THAT SAW THE MOVIE WERE ALL FROM TRUCHAS AND CORDOVA AND THAT AREA AND WHEN THE FIRST TITLE CAME ON, THEY GOT A STANDING OVATION.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE IT HAD A PICTURE OF THE TOWN.

>>JOHN: A PICTURE OF THE TOWN OF TRUCHAS, IT HAD A CORRAL.

THE CORRAL GOT A STANDING OVATION.

THERE WAS A HORSE IN THE CORRAL, IT GOT A STANDING OVATION.

A KID RODE BY ON A BICYCLE, HE GOT A STANDING OVATION.

SO I REALIZED THAT AT LEAST I WASN'T GOING TO JUST GET, YOU KNOW, LYNCHED AND SLAUGHTERED WHEN THE MOVIE WAS OVER.

I WAS GRATEFUL FOR THAT.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, I KNOW, WE HAD A DIALOGUE BEFORE AN AIRING, WE HAD IT AT THE BELOVED JEAN COCTEAU THEATRE HERE.

>>JOHN: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND YOU WERE UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT IT AGAIN.

BUT THE AUDIENCE WAS THE SAME WAY, THEY LOVED WHAT YOU HAD TO SAY, THEY LOVED THE MOVIE.

>>JOHN: AND PEOPLE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHEN I TOLD THEM IT WAS THE WORST EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE.

THEY JUST COULD NOT UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT IT MUST BE WONDERFUL TO HAVE THE FILM MADE IF YOU ARE THE WRITER.

>>LORENE: WELL, I AM GLAD THAT YOU MADE IT THROUGH THAT SHOW.

>>JOHN: YEAH, I GUESS I MADE IT THROUGH.

>>LORENE: AND A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW JUST SEE THE MOVIE, I REALLY WANT PEOPLE TO READ THE BOOK TOO, IT'S REALLY HAS SO MANY OTHER DIMENSIONS.

I DO LOVE THE MOVIE.

>>JOHN: THE MOVIE IS FRIENDLY, IT IS NOT VIOLENT OR VICIOUS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

BUT PEOPLE CAN CRITIQUE IT BY SAYING, OH, IT IS A REALLY CHARMING MOVIE OR THEY CAN CRITIQUE IT BY SAYING, OH, IT IS REALLY CHARMING MOVIE.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE IT THERE, BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD A WONDERFUL HALF AN HOUR WITH A VERY CHARMING AUTHOR, JOHN NICHOLS.

THANK YOU, WE WILL BE BACK.

>>JOHN: ALL RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND TALK ABOUT OTHER OF YOUR LIFE AND WORKS.

BUT OUR GUEST TODAY IS JOHN NICHOLS, AUTHOR.

YOU GOT TO SHOW THIS COVER, LOOK AT THIS COVER, THE MILAGRO BEANFIELD WAR , TA DA.

>>JOHN: FOR MANY YEARS THEY WERE CALAVERAS BY JOSE GUADALUPE POSADA THAT WERE ON THE COVER OF THE BOOK.

>>LORENE: THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL, HERE IS ONE MORE AND THEN WE WILL CLOSE OUT.

OUR GUEST TODAY JOHN NICHOLS AND WE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK TO TALK ABOUT THIS MORE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>JOHN: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON A VERY SPECIAL EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE.

WE WILL CONTINUE IT NEXT REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM