Everybody and welcome.

Thanks for joining us here.

Tonight.

We are back at Potomac Station Coffee House in Dormont.

We have a great show.

But first I'm Valerie, that's David.

And this is our Gen X Pittsburgh podcast.

Joining us tonight is John Schisler.

He is the frontman of New Invisible Joy and, oh, the moody textures of New Invisible Joy.

I'm glad he's here with us tonight I am too.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, he New Invisible Joy is one of those bands where you can sort of to me anyways, you can tent pole certain bands in Pittsburgh sort of sound.

Right.

And so if you start with there's a whole bunch of bands don't matter.

I'm not going to talk about.

Right.

But when we get into the 90s, we'r talking about The Clarks, right?

I mean, you say, all right, I know The Clarks.

I know Dharma Suns, Gathering Field, right?

And then as you move to shor and then as you get a little bit further, you New Invisible Joy and the Buzz Poets, right?

Yeah, obviousl Kelsey's in there before that.

Obviously the Portable Floor were a big band, right?

Right.

But they are really when I think of that sort of second generatio of Pittsburgh alternative music.

Yeah.

That's it.

Yeah.

They weren't following the Seattle sounds.

They were creating their own right, their own mood and everything.

So.

Right.

And in fairness you know, it's so interesting.

Pittsburgh, the sound they had because it was really almost a coffee house sort of sound.

Right.

Nixon Clocks and and Gathering Field.

It was a little more gentle than the, you know, if you weren't listening to Kelly Affair.

Yeah.

Right.

What was happening on the Southside.

And then you had a band like Rusted Root and Psoas which are completely different from everybody else, you know.

And then there's a long period where not much happened until you get to this next wave of bands that were really important, I think on the Southside.

Yeah.

You know.

And so what were some o your favorite clubs for music?

Oh my gosh.

Oh, I have to say I the one I went t most of the time was Metropol.

Yeah.

And Graffiti.

That was m those were my stomping grounds.

I saw a lot of bands in Metropol.

Yeah, I was o more of the alternative, like, you know what I mean So Metropol was like my thing.

I liked Nicks Fat City a lot.

I used to go see a lot of the Southside shows.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I remember when my band played there, I don't know, we played there like three times Nicks Fat City?

Yeah, we sucked, but I felt like we made it when we were.

We were playing Nicks Fat City, you know, like it was a big deal.

Right.

And that was a really big time.

Well, they had a great stage.

They did.

That's exactly it.

They that guitar that looked like a Har Rock Cafe, you know what I mean?

You felt like you were something when you played there.

So I really liked Nicks Fat Cit I liked Graffiti, I used to interview a lot of bands for Graffiti.

I'll tell you just a real quick funny story.

So my friend and I are interviewing, there's a progressive rock band called Fates Warning.

Okay.

And this is back in the 90s when, you know, you couldn't download music or anything.

And so they were playing Pittsburgh the day their album came out.

And so we got, we were able to interview them, writing, I guess probably for the college radio station.

And so my buddy Rob, who plays drums, sai to the drummer of Fates Warning, you know, you're my favorite drummer.

You're just amazing.

And he's like oh, would you think of the new album?

And Rob said, well, I haven't listened to it yet.

You know, I just got out of classes and came down.

And he, like the drummer from Fates Warning, goes to the lead singer, our biggest fan over here.

So that was our brush with Fates Warning Very nice, very nice.

Probably nobody should listen to Fates Warning based on that story, right?

But this is kind of on a different subject, but has anybody been to Dees Cafe lately?

Not anybody in our audience tonight.

They had a wall with a bunch of caricatures on it.

I'm just trying to figure out if those caricatures are still there.

Have you been there?

Are the okay?

I cant remember if they took them down.

I hope not.

That was just something kind of cool back in the day.

My mom and I our pictures are on that on that wall.

In Dees.

We have to check it out.

But that was somewhere else that I like to hang out because it was right across the street from the Beehive where I worked.

So we were there a lot, a lot.

Yeah.

Metropol was great for shows though.

Yeah.

And Rosebud was too.

Club Cafe, you know, I used to see a lot of more mellow acts a Club Cafe when it first started.

You know, it was more jazz.

And so I would see a lot o clubs, or a lot of bands there.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Yeah.

Well, I can't wai to talk to John in a little bit.

Yeah, let's get to it.

Welcome back to GXP.

We're here with John Schisler.

Oh my gosh.

Thanks for being here with us.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah yeah.

So we were talking about Dees Cafe earlier, and I just found out tha in order to have your caricature on the wall, you had to drink a lot.

So that that says something about me and my mom.

What to say about your mother?

That was going to be my question.

And Tom Coleman.

Yeah, he painted all those caricatures.

Did you hang out at Dees back in the day?

Yeah.

We.

Of course you did.

That was our our place that we hung out the most would be Dee' every Friday and Saturday night if we weren't playing, we would go to do Dees and just meet all our friends there.

You know, we would hang out upstairs a lot.

Yeah, right.

And so we'd go up there and I was just thinking about how they had a cigarette machine there that you would go.

This is when I smoked an you would go, and everybody was.

It was just a cloud of smoke.

I'd have a friend that would come with us in, like, a bathrobe and just drank.

And it was great.

Yeah, it Dees was.

Yeah.

I don't yeah.

I haven't been so long, but it was my favorite spot.

They had really good food, too.

And they, they got rid of their grill several years ago, which was very sad because I know it's good.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I kno they had food a long time ago.

Yeah.

It's Steel Mills, right?

I never ate there.

Yeah.

Me either.

I drank a lot.

I smoked a lot of cigarettes and drank.

Great.

Great.

But to my kids I didnt smoke at all.

Well, you know, it's kind of funny.

My son is turning 21 in the next few days, and I, as you're talking about the cigarette machine, I remembe the guy that used to card you.

Do you remember?

You would have to get carded as you walked in, right?

That's my neighbor.

As soon as you walked in on the Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My my neighbor is that guy.

Yeah.

You don't see that anymore.

And, I mean, maybe I don't go to the right clubs anymore, right?

We're older.

I don't get carded they just wave you along.

Right.

Remember, like he would go out at 10:00 at night.

That's when we got ready.

I was getting ready.

Right after dancing at the Upstage.

White Eagle, we would go to, oh my God.

Chiefs, remember Chiefs?

Oh, yeah.

Oh my God.

Oh, gosh.

The guys when I first once I was in New Invisible Joy for a little bit.

But you're talking about Chiefs And then when John Bechtel left Kelly Affair and I joined Kelly Affair Michael and, Jack Schmitt.

Yeah.

They hung out at Chiefs all the time.

All the time I know.

So I hadn't, I hadn't been, but I bet you we ran around together at some point because I was friends with Jack too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were really tight back in the day.

I forgot that you were in Kelly Affair for a while there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So could you talk about your background?

Pre, pre Kelly Affair.

You know, like childhood?

Yeah.

Where did you grow up?

Did you have a Huffy?

I had a Mongoose.

All right.

I had a Predator.

So.

Yeah.

See, I grew up in Easton, PA on the border of Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

I grew up right down.

I was called a walker.

I walked right to my school, which was five houses down from the school.

I was a latchkey kid.

And when I started, like, I guess first grade is when I came home, my mom would be there and then fourth, fifth grade.

Then they they started.

My mom started working, so, I. Was like a normal kid, bi wheel, all that kind of stuff.

See, I'm dating myself.

Big wheel, all the things.

Green machine, you don't know anymore.

You know, we had.

I had one of these things where it was like a six wheel and you turn it.

Oh, yeah.

Skid out kind of thing.

All that stuff.

Saturday morning cartoons and and everything like that.

And then I went to a Catholic, I was at a in a public school but I was fighting all the time.

My parents pulled me out of out of middle school to go to a Catholic school.

And I did that until my junior year.

And then I went back to public school because I was kind of a problem child.

And then after that, I went to Indiana University of Pennsylvania.

And as a matter of fact, the guys in The Clark used to rehearse in our basement because Scott was a Theta Xi I believe, in a fraternity across the street.

And so they rehearsed in our basement, or so the lore says, I, I went to school there in 87, so or 88 spring 88.

And it's so remarkable to m that you say you used to fight because you're such a seriously like a laid back, sort of calm guy.

I would never picture you.

Well, I used to fight a lot.

Yeah, yeah.

But I mean, just, you know, my brother was like that, and that's how we kind of grew up, and and it was very like, you know, middle class, blue collar, middle class.

My father was an engineer.

And so and my mom was lik the hospital auxiliary and like, as women did back then and but I don't know, I think I was it kind of moved into me being a, like a singer and a frontman and stuff.

I always wanted to be the center of attention and not sometimes not in the best way, you know?

And I was always in trouble.

So, what did you study in college?

Communications media.

Okay.

It was in the beginning was journalism.

And I wondered actually be a writer.

And then I got into journalism because it was just it was more reactive and.

And then I picked up photography as a free elective, just on a whim fell in love with photography.

And then I just stuck with that.

I was like, wow, you can take photos and get paid for it.

And it didn't seem like a desk job to me.

And it kind of, fulfilled this artistic expression.

Then I kind of clamored on to.

What came first music or photography?

Music.

So I sang in this thing called the Pocono Boy Singers, which was, when I was 12, 13 years old, and it was very performative chorus kind of stuff.

And it was very strict.

It was extremely strict, but it was an amazing experience.

And then I kind of discovered my brother started turning me on to like, Black Sabbath and then Supertramp.

Oh, yeah and then Kansas and Foreigner.

Right.

And Foghat, like, all these.

All over the place, yeah.

So it was a turntable and headphones, and we shared a bedroom when I was seven.

He's seven years older.

And so I would listen to his music all the time.

And just that's really what I wanted to do.

Is music really, spoke to me as it does many people, and I sang, but I didn't really get into bands or anything until I was like 14 or 15, started messing with, you know, kids that played music, and that's when you kind of pick up the guitar and stuff that age 13, 14 years old.

So.

It took me a lot longer and I spent probably eight years trying to learn how to play Iron Man by by Black Sabath and realized probably wasn't gonna make it as a guitar player.

Well, I know Mike, our guitar player said, you know, his parents said you can play a sport, but, you know, it's just like one thing that you can do.

And he just practiced guitar.

And that's really what a lot of kids did, was practice guitar for 8 or 9 hours.

As soon as you got home from school all day.

Sure.

Fall asleep at the guitar in bed.

You know, that was really the tim when you had time to do things right, you know?

Now you just squeeze some stuff in.

That's why we're.

We're recording now, and I'm mixing at night when everybody's kind of a sleep.

I was going to ask.

Yeah, we'll talk about that.

Yeah I won't jump all over You fired at me.

Thats the conclusion of the journey, right?

Yeah.

So I know that you went to college.

Not in the city.

How did you end up coming to the city?

Can you can you talk about that?

Yeah.

So I went to IUP, and I woul come every once in a while to.

For photography classes.

The only place you could get film would be Bernies.

So we'd have an infrared project.

We would go to Bernie's.

Yeah.

So it would be, you know, if I was dating someone at that time, like, let's go to the city and make a day of it.

You know, it's like this thing, right?

And so once I graduated, I moved back home.

I interned at our hometown newspaper.

And then I got my first job was in West Virginia, which I loved West Virginia.

It was amazing just to be outside.

But, it was kind of a clash, a cultural clash.

You know, where I grew up, we were an hour and 20 minutes away from Philadelphia, about an hour and 15 minutes from New York City, because we were kind of in that triangle.

And so that's kind of what we would do.

Not all the time, but it was kind of an urban environment, you know, environment.

So when I went to West Virginia.

It was I was considered an outsider, even though I was in Pennsylvania.

It was very insular.

And one of my fraternity brothers said, hey, we're opening up this newspaper in Pittsburgh because they were the Greensburg Tribune-Review at the time, right?

Yes.

And we opened up a thing where Buca Di Beppo was in Station Square.

I remember that and said, you know what, don't you come down, you'll make more.

I was making $12,000 a year.

Yeah.

He said, why don't you come down here?

You could, you know, do your band thing because I was singing in a college band and you can, you know, do play in a band and, you know, be a photographer part time.

And within a year, they hired me full time.

And so.

But we were talking about the Southside when I had my interview to be here.

Listen, what, like Kroger's was where you would go get like, you wanted to feel international and you'd get, like, ramen noodles or something like that.

So we I had a job interview over on the Southside, I mean, at Station Square and then my girlfrien at the time, and I went to Mike and Toni's got a gyro, and we would walk up and down the sidewalks and were like people, you know, spilling out of the Beehive, right?

You know like nose piercings, different color hair, right?

Mohawks.

I mean, this was all like crazy to me coming from, you know, whitewater rafting and, you know, the other things that we were doing in West Virginia.

And it was awesome.

I was like this is where I'm going to be.

You know, to me, I was only, what, 23 at the time, 24 right around there.

And it was an eye opener for me to live on my own, to be in a city to kind of carve my own niche.

You know, I worked for the gu that owned the Tribune Review.

He owned a radio station with somebody else, KQV.

Oh, oh.

And Scaife.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're talking about the salary.

Yeah.

I was the production director, you know, KQV is the oldest radio station in the United States that was getting paid $5.75 an hour.

Yes.

When I Kim and I first started talking.

But you were still happy.

That's that's the problem Like, now the more money you have or if you're you know, lucky to have money, I don't know.

I was living o Mt.

Washington with three guys.

It was $475 a month for the rent.

Yeah, yeah.

And we still had trouble finding, you know.

Oh, yeah.

Exactly.

But I can remember I went to th general manager of the station and I said, I need to make more money.

And he said I could get a monkey to do your job.

Oh, yeah.

Were you better?

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And that's I mean, that was the thin when you're dumb and young and, you know, really hungry and you'll, you know, you can do anything to and and it's survivable.

Yeah.

You know, I could lean on m parents every once in a while.

Okay How long were you at the Trib?

I was at the Trib from 1995 to 2016.

I took a buyout in 2016 That's when they left the city.

That's when everything was kind of.

When Richard Scaife passed away and everything was up in the air, and they were offering buyouts, and I just figured maybe it was the time I was getting burned out.

I was the manager and chief of photography.

I was doing more management type stuff.

I wasn't really shooting that much.

And and it was I was burned out and we just had twin newborns and, and so I just decided.

Twins, wow.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm only 25.

Yeah.

My hair fell out in a week.

Yeah, I get it.

Trust me.

Yeah.

Yeah, I have one.

Yeah.

This is somewhere, right?

Don't touch my hair.

Right, right.

Yeah.

They ask me all the time, whe are you gonna have another one?

I say when I can afford th first one.

Right?

Yeah, right.

But that.

Yeah.

And that was it.

Once I left in 2016, then I kind of just took time off, you know, I wasn't even in the band at that point.

There was no band and I was just being a dad.

A work from home, dad.

You know, my wife's career took off and it was great to be a part of their lives, my children's lives.

But, you know, it's, You're always itching for something more.

You know, we're trying to be creative and stuff like that, and you kind of get caugh in that mother's little helper kind of thing instead, so.

Well, can you talk about the band?

How did it come together?

How did you meet everybody?

Sure.

So I when I first moved here, I was at a party and I bumped into Mike Gaydos, who's the guitar player for New Invisible Joy.

But at the time, he was in a project and he was looking for a guitar player, and I'm sorry.

He's a guitar player looking for a singer.

And I said, well, you know, I sing and and I, I'd be interested in doing this with you.

He said, well, I'm kind of like in a band right now, bu we're getting rid of our singer.

And I said, you should just kick him out.

I want to join.

Yeah.

He's like, well, we have a gig.

There was a place in West Mifflin.

Oh, yeah across from.

City Limits, right?

No, it wasn't City Limits.

What was it?

I know exactly what it is, and I can't.

It was on.

Was it on Lebanon Church Road?

I feel like it was like on the way to Kennywood and on that main drag, but I can't remember it.

Like, Mike would know right off the bat, you know.

And so they had a show there.

And I apologize for not remembering that.

Wasn't even your show.

No, he was like he said, just kick him out.

I was like, kick him out and I'll just make stuff up.

I'll just sing.

And that's what we did.

And I sang our first show.

I just made up lyric to all their song unbelievable.

And then they let me join the band and we.

The band was called Vent, and so we just played a couple, you know, shows.

It wasn't really that big.

We weren't, you know, huge.

Made a cassette, which you did at the time.

And what kind of music was it?

It was coming off of like Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains like that whole kind of thing.

Yeah.

Our drummer had this huge, like, cage that.

Right?

Yeah.

Drum kit on.

And I remember, like, lugging this thing, this huge cage.

And, you know, it was very much part of.

I got to see this.

I, you know, I might have something, but, you know, I had hair, everybody had hair, you know, shaved on the sides, long hair to be dyed and it would be the thermal white thermals with the shorts and like, all that kind of stuff.

The timberlands.

Oh yeah.

Oh, it was all that.

And we played that for a little bit.

And then I joined We wanted to start a new band.

It really wasn't working.

Two of the guys left in the band, and so we pulled together New Invisible Joy, and we just started writing things.

And this was in 99 going to 2000.

So my God, 26 year old was 26 years ago.

That sound is so different from what you play, right?

How did you make that jump different?

We just started getting turned into turne onto different kinds of music.

You know there was a little bit of stuff that I listened to in college I mean, it it all has kind of.

Sprinklings of it.

Like I would listen to The Residents.

I don't know if anybody heard of The Residents, but that would be a thing or XTC, you know.

And then we starte the whole thing with like suede that would move into sued and a lot of like Britpop stuff.

And that was the Verve.

I saw them before I moved here to Pittsburgh.

I saw the at the first Lollapalooza, okay.

And they were on the second stage, and I was just blown away by a band that could be have such a wall of sound.

And it was just like this tapestry of music, and it was just so amazing to me, and that that kind of music spoke to me the most, you know, coming from being turned on to like, Rush.

Yes.

And all that other stuff that, you know, kind of seeped in.

So we were just really listening to all these bands.

A band called Kent The Motorhomes, all these bands that were kind of fringe but really appealed to us and kind of developed our sound from, from that.

And I wanted to have my voice be like, try to treat it as an instrument and not just singing on top of music or with music and just have it be more of an instrument.

I play guitar a little bit and I write music, but I'm, you know, nowhere near a guitar player or anything like that.

But singing was always my instrument.

I'm sorry.

No.

How did you come up wit the name?

New Invisible Joy was, it's so ridiculous.

I was at a friend's house, and he lived in Brookline at the time, right up from Fioris.

We went to Fioris, went up to his house, and I was like, well, we need a name for this band.

You know, we're going to start recording soon.

And I picked up a Bible and I was just like, all right, I' just going to pick three words.

Everybody was The something.

Thus The Strokes, the, you know.

Well, not The Strokes back then.

Right.

But it was just there was a lot of the and I wanted a three name title on it just was like New Invisible and then Joy and that was it.

And I mean, I'm not a, not, not against the Bible.

Right.

But I'm not a Bible guy.

Then I went to Catholic school and everything, but that was jus the three words that spoke to me as far as that.

You could string them togethe and it made some kind of sense.

You know what's amazing to me, though, is that so you were sort of developing this sound just based on your influences.

Correct.

But it became so contemporary.

And what you're talking about doing with the vocals, I've heard Maynard I can't think of lasting from Tool and Thom Yorke both say that they were experimenting with, you know, trying to do something different with their voice making more than just sing on top.

And here so your sound is, I mean, exactly lined up with where you were.

That's amazing to me.

Well, that was the thing.

I mean, you would.

Jeff Buckley was huge, right?

And 94 right around in there.

And that you could.

That was the first time I heard somebody where you was like, wow, this guy other than like Robert Plant or something like that, this was like a guy that was my age at the time, that really explored himself vocally.

And I started getting turned on to like, Indian music and where it was just your, your throat and your voice was just carrying this tune, but you weren't saying a lot.

And and this would really appealed to me.

And the music was powerful, but the voice just soared.

And so I tried to do that too, as well as well as I could.

And it was exciting for me, you know, to I wanted to have something.

What we wanted to wasn't me, but we wanted to have a sound that was kind of like the Verve and kind of where it was a wall of sound.

And but the thing was, is when we first started doing that, that's kind of what came out in our first record.

But we kept being told, like, like, where's your hit?

Or it was that was the thing when we were chopping around, it was always, that's all.

I don't hear it on the radio, I don't hear it on the radio.

And it kind of I feel bad, like these days with YouTube, kids can play music however they want to, and they'll reach an audience, right?

And they can reach it on their own terms, and then they have a built in following.

And then companies might say, hey, you already have this following and we don't have to build this anymore, right?

But for us, it was flyering and and talking to ANR people about how we should sound and where our songs are and why isn't it more, why is it more than three minutes and, and it was really stifling and we were there was a lot of infightin after a couple albums.

It had to be frustrating.

It was because you'd second guess when you would when we first started writing, you would just sit and you'd play and whatever kind of made you have goosebumps would you're onto something, right?

And you're feeling i and you're really in this moment and it's hard to reproduce that, and you're trying to harnes and bottle this lightning to us.

And then when you start writing something, you're like, well, where's the hook or where?

And you know, you're you're starting to put the cart before the horse and you're not exploring this creative outlet anymore.

You're just really thinking about how you'll be judged and you're not doing it for yourself anymore.

There was a lot of infighting because of it.

Yeah.

Oh, do you want?

It looked like you.

It was like a tennis match.

Back and forth.

So I'm actually interested in I mean, not to bring up, but the infighting.

Yeah.

You guys broke up.

I was I was the jerk.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I don't even want.

I dont even want to talk about that if you don't want to.

No, but that's Ill.

Yeah, I'll I'll own up to it.

I pushed a lot of buttons, you know.

Yeah.

I mean, eventually you kind of feel like you, you feed into this ego, which I shouldn' even have had an ego, you know?

I mean, it was.

Well, you gonna lead singer, right?

But.

Yeah, but I mean, it was just silliness and and some life choices that I made just weren't the best and just wasn' got away from why I would do it.

And it was more about going out.

Yeah.

And being seen righ and picking clothes out to go.

It was like it was really kind of ridiculous.

I mean, I look back on it no and it's it's sad because these, you know you don't get those years back, those really creative years, there's bands that still write and still write music, but, you know, you look at a lot of a lot of bands.

They make, you know, their best stuff when they're in their 20s, getting maybe into their 30s, you know, you just have all this stuff, you know, you're just very prolific.

Yeah.

And then as you get older and life experiences, you know, everything isn't new anymore.

And so the infighting was we weren't getting we really thought we were going to get signed.

Of course, you know, that was it.

Like I thought when I was like 14 or 15 years old, like, this is what I want to do.

I want to be a singer in a band.

It's probably the best thing that ever happened to me is not happening because I'd probably be dead.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, the way I lived it, it was.

Yeah.

I wasn't the smartest that I could have been, but in the same sense, we were going to ANR show showcases in New York at Arlene's Grocery and the Lion's Den.

And we were doing these things, but we weren't getting any traction like we had TVT records, you know, Guided By Voices was on TVT and we were really excited about that.

And Sony, it was in Columbia and, and but this is at the, you know, it was a weird time, right?

Myspace was happening.

Things were happening.

LimeWire people sharing music.

And so it was it was this weird time and we, you know, it was you haven't made i unless you get a label interest.

And it just wasn't happening for us.

And we were just getting burned out and sick of each other.

We were rehearsing three days a week, playing shows on the weekend.

We were playing almost every weekend.

We were playing a lot of shows and dumping all that money into a van or recording again.

We wouldn' see any of the money, you know?

Right?

We would all have jobs, you know?

So but it was a dichotomy because on the one hand, you're doing these ANR, you know, showcase and maybe nothing's happening, but then you're coming back to Pittsburgh and you were one of the biggest bands in the city.

You know, we were a band.

It was weird We weren't super popular.

Like, there were bands tha were more popular than we were.

What we had was a lot of bands came to see us, you know?

So there was a lot of a lot of our friends were in different bands.

So like when we would play Nicks Fat City, it would just be a lot of bands and stuff like that.

You know, it was funny.

We opened up for a band called Hoobastank.

Oh yeah.

So there was this band that were big right at the time, and we were outside passing out what we'd have like CD singles thing.

Right?

And we're outside of Metropol.

You had mentioned Metropol.

We were outside Metropol an we had played a gig with them.

It was Hoobastan and who else did we play with?

Was it Dave Navarro?

But we were out with the drummer with Hoobastank, and he's like, you know, when you guys, who are you signed with?

Yeah.

Like, we're not, we're just a local band.

You know, I can't believe you guys aren't signed.

Yeah, but, you know, that's just the way it is.

It takes, you know, hard work is the the main thing, right?

Right.

Luck is some of it.

And a lot of it is like, wh you know, or somebody believes in you and nudges you along and it just, you know, it didn't happen for us and it doesn't happen, there's a lot of talent bands, that just never.

Yeah.

And and there's a lot of people there's like there's a lot of really bad bands that are huge.

That's right.

Right.

But like you said, it was a strange time.

I was working for a, a CD distribution, a music distribution company at the time, and I can remember it's a Limewire.

Was it CD Baby or?

it was called Baker and Taylor.

Okay.

And so they were the largest distributor of books movies and music in the country.

But all three, like they were biggest.

Bigger music distributors, bigger book.

But all three.

They just all under one umbrella.

And so I can remember we went to LA for a sales thing that they were having, and Warner Brother came and they said, so we've got, we've got it, we're going to beat LimeWire now, we're going to beat Napster.

We're like, okay, great.

How?

And they hold up this CD and they're like this.

And we're like, what?

It's a CD and.

No, it's a wrinkle.

We're like, what the hell's a wrinkle?

And they're like, all the record labels are signed on to this Universal, Sony.

You know, there were four EMI yeah, all of them is signed on to this.

It's not only does it have a single, but it has a ring tone.

You can't crack thi and put this on Napster.

Right.

And then by the time we flew back to Pittsburgh, Universal dropped out, right?

Because they found out that you could crack it pretty easy if you really wanted to walk around.

And it turns out that most people probably weren' so interested in having a ring ring tone, right?

I mean, so crazy, like cars.

No CD players anymore.

Anything like that.

A lot of vinyl is pressed from CD recordings and, well, you want to talk about how dumb I was.

I worked in radio and I was like, I gotta get out of radio.

It's going away.

I know I'll go sell CDs, right, right, right.

Oh, yeah.

The new hotness.

Yeah.

Right, right.

That's so crazy.

Yeah, I that was the thing.

We had the cassettes and we would do our own work.

And then the CD and we recorded at Mr.

Smalls was our first CD, and because we were friends with Mike Speranzo and Liz Berlin from Rusted Root at the time.

And so we recorded there.

Our bass player, Evan he borrowed money from his mom and we paid for the CD that way.

And that was our first time like in a studio, and it was a really cool experience.

But it's just so odd that you think about doing this on CDs and recording it on a CD, and all we do now i just put everything streaming.

Yeah.

You know.

Right.

And and to the point where now you can do things in your basement which we're recording right now, and then I'm mixing and I learned I'm learning to mix just so we can put our own stuff out.

Sure.

But it's, you know, it's more it's kind of like more grassroots in the DIY than it was just, you know, dumping our own money into recording the stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

What gives you goosebumps these days, creatively?

Creatively, still listening to, you know, it was crazy.

I listened to some of the demo tapes the other night for of Jimmy Page doing stuff for Physical Graffiti that he had recorded, and he was doing all the guitar himself.

And I was just thinking about, you know, he's in his 20s and he's writing this, these amazing things.

And just to listen to the demos and then what it turned into is just fascinating to me.

Just, you know, getting into learning how to mix and things like that.

And so what really turns me on now, I just, I, I think Radiohead still does it for me.

There's I'm listening to a lot of post-punk from the early 80 that kind of flew past my radar.

And then I started getting into it like a band called The Sound and Snake Corps.

And who else is there?

The Chameleons, an amazing band.

And these aren't band that got huge, but they had this great following and still had amazing music, you know, and it was just, you know, still speaks to me.

I don't really go see bands anymore.

I think the last band I saw was Queens of the Stone Age.

Last is that last year?

Last summer?

Or maybe the previous summer.

And it was amazing.

Yeah.

You know, and I saw The Chameleons when they're in Lawrenceville and they were really good too.

I mean, there's a guy, you know, talking abou doing something that you love.

He has to be in his 60s.

Right.

And we got there and it's it was a spirit.

Yeah.

And so he's there selling his own merch, right.

Signing stuff.

You know.

And he's an older guy and just very unassuming.

And it was amazing to see like that's what you know that was his calling.

And he's doing the exact same thing he did when he was a teenager in the late 70s.

And still doing it now.

Right.

You know, they're just it speaks to him.

Yeah.

There's really been a right sizing or not a right sizing, a wrong size, but there's been a downsizing.

Do you know who Alex, Alex Skolnick is?

He was a guitar player for Testament, and he used to not only did he play with this like huge metal band, right.

But he did a bunch of jazz CDs and he used to write a column for Guitar Magazine.

I mean, he was just big as you could get in, like guitar players in the late 80s, early 90s.

That was huge back then.

Shredding.

Right?

And now he's talking about he has to sell shirts from his closet, right, to be able to make it.

Yeah.

You know, and I think that bands that were huge, yeah.

Probably have a harder tim now than the bands that sort of were middle of the road and were driving in their own van, you know.

And now that I think a lot of people are kind of, find like the whole to me, the whole post-punk stuff was.

It was kind of fringy.

So they were doing it for the love of it.

I'm sure everybody wanted to be big.

Right, right.

Because you have those dreams like a dream.

And it's a fantasy.

It's a daydream.

But you you obviously you have talent, but they made great music and you still have that.

A lot of, you know, music is cyclical.

And it went from in the 80s like huge production.

70s were huge.

And then 80s was there was a lot of reverb on snares and drums, and it was hair metal.

And then Nirvana things got kind of, you know, more like Bad Brains and all that kind of stuff.

People were turned on to that you know, of these influences by Nirvana, like, who are you influenced by Bad Brains, Minor Threat or like whatever it might be.

And I think a lot of people are seeing or hearing this music that it's pared down and it's very garage-y and underground-y and, but just still resonates.

Yeah.

So it's a it's still amazing to, to to hear for me anyway, I'm still hearing a lot of stuff that I haven't heard being, you know, the 50 some years old man.

I know it, I know it.

Yeah.

What is the Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast?

Let me take you back.

Remember when coffee was king and pizza bagels ruled on the corner of 14th and Carson at The Beehive?

Or how about that tim you stumbled upon art all night?

How cool was that?

Or when your evening started instead of any at 10 p.m.?

Yeah, we miss those days, too.

So we're bringing them back one Gen X story at a time.

Join David Rullo and I, Valerie Christofel, as we sit down with the movers and shakers, the artists and the voices who helped shape Pittsburgh back in the early 90s.

Subscrib to the Gen X Pittsburgh podcast.

Oh my God.

Welcome back to Gen X Pittsburgh.

Were here with John from new, New Invisible Joy.

Question.

You talked about how the band kind of separated.

How did you fall back in love with music?

Tell us how you you guys came back around.

Well, it's strange, so we.

I started singing with, like, a band called the Mandrake Project, which I would do was more progressive music and so progressive rock.

So I sang with them and that would kind of like scratch the itch.

And then we found out our drummer's father had passed away.

So we all met up at the viewing and we just hit it off like we hadn't talked in a couple years.

And, you know, every once in a while we would text and but other than that, this is the universal for texting.

And what an old guy.

So then we were doing this show on your age on.

He's doing it over there.

Hey, at least you were doing it with two thumbs.

You're not like that.

Yeah.

So I we bumped into each other and we had a blast.

And we just said, hey, we should get together and just hang out.

Let's have a couple beers an and jam or something like that.

And we.

It was weird.

We just started writing right off the bat.

We had one rehearsal and we just had ideas and and started doing stuff.

And I think we've done 4 or 5, you know, songs so far and just doing them piecemeal, one at a time, writing something and, and just hanging out.

And we started like Mike our guitar player would have a gathering at his hous and we would bring the families and make it a family affair.

And so we just kin of reconnected our friendship.

And, you know, like I had touched on earlier, I, I burned a lot of bridges.

As far as the friendships were concerned, I wasn't my best person.

Yeah.

And so I kind of really wanted to, to make up for lost time.

And, and so that's what we're trying to do.

And as long as I can sing, you know, my voice isn't as good as it was when I was 30, 25.

But, you know, thankfully, I can still sing.

Yeah.

And we're having a blast.

And so we're just doing it to create, to write music.

Well, you know, you said that you didn't have a lot of people that showed up at your shows, you know, mostly bands.

The beginning is always your friends.

Right.

But but I got since you've reformed, I kno that you've played at Star Lake.

You closed Club Cafe before it reopened.

And then I think we're a Pittsburgh winery.

Yeah, we played that a few times.

And the Club Cafe.

Yeah.

And when Ive seen you though the room's been sold out.

Yeah.

We've gotten a good response, which was really, you know, kind.

Yeah.

I think it's also like a nostalgic thing.

Right?

Like, a lot of bands are, are kind of reconnecting with a nice time in their lif and they like to look back on.

It was just as a as much a privilege for us to play for these people, or so you would think.

Then you know, that we shared something and we got a lot of a lot of people that came to see us, were friends or became friends.

And so a lot of faces, familiar faces would come when we first sold out, our first show there.

Well, we first started with Vine Rewind, right.

So that was that thing over in the with Tim Gaber in the Strip District.

And, you know, we were kind of just it was just a one off show, right?

And then when Brian's fathe passed away, then we were like, let's try to do this agai just as a for kicks, you know?

And then the response is had been really good.

And we were like, wow, this is really neat.

And we made money which we had never done before.

Like, I've left there with money in my pocket and it was amazing.

Like, wow, this is you know, it was exciting, was a rush.

It was kind of like feeling how you did, how I did.

When we first started playing where you were just you would get goosebumps just singin and or playing your instrument.

And that's how I felt after that show.

It was such a high.

Yeah.

And it was so amazing.

Well, that was really a lead up on Facebook.

I can remember people there were like rumors about, you know, and then you maybe you did the one off sho and people were like, are they?

Is this happening Are they getting back together?

And then it became it's going to be new music, right?

Where are they going to be at?

And then when I went to see you at the I think it was the final show with Club Cafe, everyone was mesmerized there.

You could hear a pin drop in certain parts, but it's because everyone was really into the music.

It was amazing to and I have a lot of photography of photographs.

I'm not a photographer, so I have a lot of pictures of my thumb with, like for you guys, you know, behind my thumbs, right?

Right.

Yeah.

So it was really cool to see.

It was I mean, that was kind of a full circle moment.

We had a lot o really good shows at Club Cafe.

They always treated us really well.

We developed a lot of really nice friendships.

It was an intimate setting and, I mean, we would go there all the time too.

Like I said, these go to Lava Lounge, D's and Club Cafe, but we saw a lot of really good bands.

They would have national bands that would come, and they would let us in for free because we were friends with everybody.

We felt special.

Sure.

You know, when we went there because of our band, we it was like this, just this touch of success.

And it was amazing to see national act play Club Cafe and be able to.

There was a band called Tahiti 80, that played there and I love them.

At the time they were really big and Jeff Buckley's guitar player was in a band.

He played there, you know, so we would go to these shows and it was really neat to hang out to at Club Cafe, but it was like I said, it was a full circle moment.

We had a CD release there.

Our last CD release was there at Club Cafe.

No, not our last CD.

Our last was at the Rex.

Oh, and when that turne into a kind of a venue, right.

For a for a minute.

A hot minute as the kids say.

I saw Ozric Tentacles there.

Yeah.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So I, going back to your question, the response has been great.

I mean, you know, I didn't think that as many people would be into it as they were, you know, because it was 20 some years ago, our last album came out.

The last time we played was 2012, right before we, you know, we got together for the Vine Rewinds and then these recent shows, and I'm sorry I keep turning away from you.

These last shows that we played at Pittsburgh Winery and Millville Music Festival, we just did recently, and we're going to be doin that again coming up.

But yeah.

What are you playing?

It's the Millville Music Festival.

We're playing the stage right next to the Funhouse that's on that little hill.

So I believe that's where we're playing because we played The Sanctuary last yea and now we're playing outside.

Do you know the day?

Is it the 13th?

No, it is May 16th.

Okay.

Okay.

Right.

So that's a it's a Friday night I know it's May 16th.

Okay.

Ill take your word that it's Friday night.

It's definitely going to be.

Yeah I'm going to be there.

So I hope we're playing all right.

What can w look forward to in the future?

In the future?

We're in the midst of, I was laying down vocals last night for a new song that actually was really crazy is I started to write music and bring it to the band.

Oh that's great.

And they have been receptive.

And so this is one of those songs and I'm laying the vocals down right now, learning to mix, mixing this stuff and, and mastering.

And so that's what writin new music is, is the thing now that we're trying to do and then play shows, we have one in the summer, one in May, and try to book more shows after that.

Very cool.

Right.

Yeah, great.

What about your legacy?

What do you want Pittsburghers to remember about you?

I want the to think I wasn't such a jerk.

Me too.

Yeah, exactly.

That.

That we're a decent band, that we were a decent band and that people felt something when we played music and and we inspired people to to listen to other music.

I don't know I don't, I don't have a legacy as far as I want my kids to be good people.

Right?

I kind of how things shift, you know, how you none of my kids are into music, which is absurd to me, right?

Like, not one I couldn't get.

We had a piano in our house.

Yeah, I couldn't get it to stick.

Right.

But that was the same thing with me.

Like, you know, I think when you find something on your own, it's when it sticks, you know because it's on your own terms.

I don't want us to.

I don't want anybody to think that we were the band that could have been.

I think we were just a band that was you know who they could be.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Well, we still have one more thing.

Yes, we have some questions for you.

Yeah.

Is this like a rapid fire thing?

Don't think about this.

Don't think about it.

Just answer the question.

It's that simple.

It's not that hard.

Okay.

All right, you ready?

I'm ready.

Okay.

Iron City or Rolling Rock?

Rolling Rock.

Sorry.

Three Rivers or Heinz Field?

Oh, man.

Three Rivers.

Favorite alternative band from the 90s?

Favorite alternative band from the 90s?

My God.

I mean, what would you consider an alternative?

I know I'm going to come up with, like, ten when I'm driving home, right?

You could have been cool.

Said something really awesome.

Soundgarden was the band.

Louder Than Love was probably the album that I that turned me on to, like, being hard, but being raw and not sounding like anything else.

I love it, and a cool name.

Turner's or Schneider's?

Well, I get Schneider's milk now.

Exactly.

That's all right.

Not, not.

I still can tolerate lactose.

Good for you.

Oh my God.

Favorite 90s movie?

Favorite 90s movie?

You can expand it to 80s, Gen-X.

Yeah.

See, My God.

Blade Runner.

All right.

That's probably my favorite movie of all time.

Blade Runner Obviously the Star Wars.

Yeah.

I remember going to the theater to see saw Star Wars.

But I would say Blade Runner is like the, or maybe the first Alien movie.

Okay.

Okay.

How about Donzis and Chaunceys or Metropol and Rosebud?

Oh.

Metropol and Rosebud.

That was like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was, you know, I saw Jane's Addiction at Metropol, and we came in to the city to see that this was.

I was still going to IUP at the time when we came in, and I was blown away, but not only like just the club itsel with those steel girder columns.

Yeah, yeah.

And it was so big.

And to see a band there, it was small enough that you could have a good view, but big enough for it to sound so large.

And yeah, Metropole was amazing.

Great venue.

It was such an awesome place to be.

My friend Robin Fernandez.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

How about is Die Hard a Christmas movie or not?

I'm a fan of Emmet Otter's Jug-Band Christmas That's my jam.

Yeah.

No.

Diehard.

Is is it a Christmas movie?

I it seems to air a lot around Christmas.

I think they're trying to make it a Christmas movie.

Yeah, I like I still like my wife hates a Christmas Story, and I love it.

That's my.

That's my film, A Christmas Story.

How about Nirvana or Pearl jam?

That's a tough one.

When Ten came out, I thought it was an amazing album.

But when Never Mind came out, it was groundbreaking, right?

I mean it turned so many people on to.

I mean, it killed what I loved.

one point I was into like, Rat, like, all these bands, Talking, like all this stuff.

I would drive when I first drove around and I had my driver's license and my dad said, go ahead and take the car.

And I would listen to like, Rat.

And, you know, I just cruise around.

I had, like, a mullet.

I'm with you.

I had a perm, so Im with you.

And then when I was in college and Never Mind came on, I, you know, that came out.

It was lik I think it was never heard of.

It was crazy.

It was almost like how I looke at Okay Computer for Radiohead, where it was just defied everything to me and it was amazing Pearl Jam was good, but I just, it's not my thing anymore.

You know?

People are still really into Pearl Jam.

And God bless them, they're still selling right arenas and stuff like that.

But no one will ever sound lik that first Nirvana record to me.

Yeah.

You know where you didn't have to be a master of your instrument, right?

But it you know, it was great.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously they they were all good.

Yeah.

Dave Grohl, obviously.

Oh, yeah.

Which character from The Breakfast Club can you relate to the most?

Oh, God.

I was an amalgamation between Michael C Hall's character and Judd Nelson character.

Right?

Yeah.

A little bit of a burnout, but still very much a nerd.

I was like, no, not.

It was weird, like I would when I was 14 years old.

13 years old.

We lived down near a shopping center and I would hang out at Radio Shack.

Oh, yeah.

During the summe and just hang out at Radio Shack and play on their computer, right.

And listen to music and burn records like.

And they would let me use their, their turntables and I would make cassettes.

And so I was like that it was Michael C Hall.

Right.

Is that the character?

Yeah.

So I was him.

Anthony Michael Hall.

Anthon Michael hall.

Oh that's right.

It's a good thin we have somebody that knows film Yeah that's right.

Yeah.

And Judd Nelson like appealed to, you know, being that kind of outsider which I always wanted to be.

But I was more of a, you know, like, you know, every getting drilled walking down the hall right in your, you know, like a senior would come by and just spill your books.

Right.

And you're like, what a jerk.

Like, I always dude was walking down the hall, so yeah, that was more like it.

Either that or a, like a closet Ally Sheedy, you know?

Right.

Well, so last one, Southside Beehive or Oakland Beehive.

I was the Southside Beehive.

It was just so much more for me over there.

You know, it was right next to like, Slacker.

And you would go there an and kind of just go up and down.

But yeah, I didn't do Oakland a lot.

We played the upstage and, and stuff and and the although we played good, I mean, there was great shows at The Beehive like Guided By Voices multiple times.

Yeah, it was really good shows at The Beehive there, but coffee wise and stuff, everybody I kind of knew was on the Southside.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know the Scots.

Right.

Well, thank you so much for being here.

We really had a good time.

No, it's my pleasure.

I mean, to actually have one Want somebody to listen to me.

No one wants to listen.

I talk to myself, you know, or when I'm walking the dog.

Right?

Who are you talking to, man?

Yeah.

So it's either that or Alzheimer's.

The two I'm getting.

Well, I appreciate it.

Thank you, thank you.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for being here.

All right, guys, thank you for tuning in.

And we'll see you next week.

The Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast hosts are David Rullo and Valerie Christofel Executive producer, David Rullo.

Producer and graphic designer, Kim Rullo.

Producer, Valerie Christofel.

Video production and editor, Brent Isaac.

Music by NeoStem.