>> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING A JUDGE TOSSING YET ANOTHER LAWSUIT FILED BY FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL CANIDATE ABE HAMMADEH.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT, ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US TONIGHT: JEREMY DUDA OF AXIOS PHOENIX.

AND JIM SMALL OF THE ARIZONA MIRROR.

OF GOOD HAVE YOU BOTH HERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

JEREMY, LET'S GET RIGHT INTO IT HERE WITH SOMETHING WE SEEM TO TALK ABOUT SOME REGULARITY ON THIS PROGRAM.

COURT.

>> SAME THING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, REALLY.

HE'S STILL CLAIMING HE WAS THE RIGHTFUL WINNER OF THE 2022 ATTORNEY GENERAL'S RACE EVEN THOUGH HE IS RUNNING FOR THE 38th CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT AS WELL, I'VE LOST TRACK OF HOW MANY OF THESE LAWSUITS HAVE BEEN AND WHERE THEY'VE ALL GONE BUT THIS ONE LIKE ALL THE OTHERS GOT TOSSED OUT, THE JUDGE BASICALLY FUND HAS THERE IS NO LEGAL MERIT TO THIS.

IT WAS A BAD FAITH, YOU KNOW -- TO THE POINT WHERE SHE'S INVITING ELECTION OFFICIALS WHO GOT SUED TO ASK FOR ATTORNEY FEES SANCTIONS FOR BOTH HIM AND HIS ATTORNEY.

AND THIS WAS CHALLENGING THE PROCEDURES USED TO VALIDATE AND VERIFY THE SIGNATURES ON EARLY BALLOTS.

SOME ARE SAYING IT'S ONLY THE ORIGINAL VOTER REGISTRATION FORM, THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE USING OTHER SIGNATURES THAT ARE PART OF THE RECORD, EXCEPT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS STATE LAW AND THE ELECTION PROCEDURES MANUAL BOTH SAY REGISTRATION RECORD, NOT JUST THE ORIGINAL FORM THAT YOU SIGN, AND THERE'S LITIGATION SURROUNDING THIS.

BUT IF YOU WANTED TO CHALLENGE THESE THINGS, A, I THINK IT'S FAIRLY CLEAR, B, HE KNEW THIS BEFORE THE ELECTION, AND I THINK THAT WAS THE CRUX OF THE JUDGE'S ARGUMENT.

>> AND HASN'T HE ALREADY LOST ON THIS BEFORE?

>> YES.

>> AND DID THE JUDGE BRING THAT UP, SAYING, HEY, WE'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH THIS?

>> YES, THE JUDGE DID BRING THAT THAT UP.

THIS WAS A DIFFERENT -- THIS WAS THE SAME ARGUMENTS BASICALLY SAYING THE SAME THINGS WERE WRONG WITH THE ELECTION, BUT KIND OF USING A DIFFERENT LEGAL MECHANISM TO GO ABOUT IT.

ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS WOULD HAVE DONE IT WOULD HAVE HAD THE COURT DECLARE -- IT DID DECLARE CHRIS MACE NOT TO BE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE ASKING FOR, CHRIS MAIZE.

AND THE JUDGE POINTED EXACTLY THOSE THINGS OUT, LOOK, THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN LITIGATED, ALREADY BEEN DECIDED.

THE LAST TIME YOU MADE THIS CLAIM THE TIME TO DO THIS WAS BEFORE THE ELECTION.

IT STILL IS BEFORE THE ELECTION, AND I THINK ALL OF THAT FEEDS INTO THE IDEA OF REALLY WHAT THE JUDGE SAID, WHICH IS -- THE ARGUMENTS WERE MADE IN BAD FAITH.

THESE ARE NOT -- THESE ARE SO OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDS OF KIND OF NORMALCY FOR WHAT WE EXPECT WITHIN A COURT, THAT THAT'S WHY THEY'RE OPENING UP HIM AND THE ATTORNEY FOR SANCTIONS.

>> YEAH, INDEED.

AND THIS WAS COALESCED INTO ANOTHER SUIT AND KIND OF A TWO FOR ONE HERE, RIGHT.

>> YEAH.

THERE'S SIMILAR ARGUMENTS BEING MADE IN A SEPARATE LAWSUIT BY SOME REPUBLICANS, ONE OF CROCE'S SUPERVISORS, ONE OF TWO WHO'S UNDER INDICTMENT FOR SOME OTHER STUFF AND ELECTION ISSUES CHALLENGING THAT.

HE WAS CHALLENGING THE PROCEDURES IN MARICOPA COUNTY SPECIFICALLY.

NOT IN CHO COCHI COUNTY WHERE IT'S THE EXACT SAME SIGNATURE VERIFICATION, BUT SOMEHOW THAT DILUTES THE VOTES OF VOTERS DOWN IN CROCE COUNTY AND THE JUDGE DID NOT WANT TO HAVE ANY OF THAT.

SO IT WAS CONSOLIDATED AND TOSSED OUT, AS WELL, THEY COULD BE FACING SANCTIONS AS WELL FOR THIS.

>> TO SHOW INJURY, AS WELL.

YOU'RE DOWN THERE IN COCHI AND WORKED ABOUT MARICOPA COUNTY, BASICALLY SAYING SHOW ME WHERE IT HURTS.

>> YEAH, THE JUDGE WAS NOT IMPRESSED BY USING THE WRONG PROCEDURES AND MARICOPA DILUTES OUR VOTES IN COCHI, YEAH.

>> SO THE JUDGE BASICALLY SAYS SANCTIONS, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE SECRETARY CAN SEEK SANCTIONS TO ACCOMMODATE, AND THE MARICOPA COUNTY CAN SEEK SANCTIONS FROM THE OTHER TWO?

>> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

BECAUSE THERE'S DIFFERENT PLAINTIFFS AND DIFFERENT DEFENDANTS.

AND THE JUDGE DID BASICALLY JUST OPEN IT UP AND SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW, THE DEFENDANTS IN THESE CASES ARE ABLE TO GO OUT AND NOT JUST GET THE ATTORNEY'S FEES FOR THE TIME AND THE MONEY THAT THEY SPENT ON THE CASE, BUT TO GET PUNITIVE SANCTIONS AGAINST THE PLAINTIFFS.

>> AND THEN IT USED TO BE VERY RARE, AT LEAST THIS IN DAY TO SEE SANCTIONS BE LEVIED AGAINST THE ATTORNEYS THEMSELVES.

YOU SEE THAT AGAINST THE PLAINTIFFS, THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT THE LAWSUITS BUT THE JUDGE FINDS THAT IT WAS IN BAD FAITH.

PRIOR TO THESE ELECTION LAWSUITS THAT FOLLOW THE FALSE CLAIMS FROM THE 2020 ELECTION AND 2022, I THINK MAYBE I'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN ONCE AND SURPRISED TO SEE IT NOW.

A PRETTY REGULAR OCCURRENCE WHICH PROBABLY SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE MERITS OF ALL OF THESE LAWSUITS WHETHER IT'S TRUMP, MOHAMMED, LAKE OR ANYONE ELSE TRIANGLE CHALLENGING THE RESULTS, THE LAWSUITS ARE NOT GOING WELL.

I MEAN, I COULDN'T TELL YOU WHAT THE TRACK RECORD OF THEM.

BUT IT'S ZERO AND A LOT.

>> YEAH.

IT SUGGEST WITH THE MONETARY, WITH THE RESULTS WHAT WE SEE, DOES THAT SUGGEST THEY'LL BE PRETTY HIGH OR BECAUSE IT'S SO RARE, RELATIVELY LOW?

>> THAT IS HARD TO SAY.

THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO THAT.

I THINK THERE'S BEEN TIMES WHERE WE'VE PROBABLY SAT ON THE STAGE AND BE SURPRISED AT HOW LOW SOME ARE, OTHERS HAVE PROBABLY BEEN PRETTY HIGH, PRETTY PUNITIVE, DEPENDS ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES AND KIND OF THE JUDGE'S THINKING THAT WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY PRIVY TO.

>> AND MR. HOM -- MR. ABE HAMMADE WAS THE TARGET OF A PRETTY STRONG AD.

BLAKE MASTERS CALLED HIM THE ANN EARLY BABY.

>> YEAH.

IT WAS REALLY -- I THINK THERE WAS TIME TO KIND OF KICK OFF THE CAMPAIGN SEASON, RIGHT, OUT OF ALL OF THE CANDIDATES FILED TO OFFICIALLY BE ON THE BALLOT, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK VERY SHORTLY AFTER, THAT WE SAW THIS AD THAT WAS RELEASED ONLINE THAT REALLY DOES GO AFTER ABE HAMMADE BOTH FOR -- HOW HIS PARENTS IMMIGRATED TO AMERICA FOR THE FACT THAT HIS PARENTS WERE -- HAD A VISA WHEN HE WAS BORN, WHICH, YOU KNOW, GIVES THINK THAT PA MAJORTIVE KEY OF ANCHOR BABIES AND MIGRATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND ALSO I THINK IT GOES OUT OF ITS WAY TO POINT OUT ABE HAMMADE'S CULTURAL RELIGIOUS BACKGROUND SHOWING SOME PICTURES OF HIM, YOU KNOW, ON TRIPS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK TRYING TO REALLY SET THE NARRATIVE FOR THAT DISTRICT.

AND I THINK IT'S A CLEAR SIGN THAT HAMMADE IS THE FRONTRUNNER.

>> WITH TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT.

>> AND I THINK THAT IF HE WINS, IT'S A FIELD HE NEEDS VERY MUCH TAKE ON AND CHALLENGE SOME OF -- REALLY WHOM HE RAN ARM AND ARM WITH JUST TWO YEARS AGO.

>> WAS IT A CLEAR SIGN THAT THEY WERE WAITING TO RELEASE THIS THING UNTIL THE COURT MADE A DECISION?

>> I THINK IT'S PROBABLY MORE RELATED TO THE ELECTION ITSELF AND THAT THE CANDIDACY AND GETTING 60S AND AT THE END OF THE WEEK, WE WILL KNOW WHO WILL BE ON THE BALLOT.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO WONDER MAYBE THERE'S A PERSONAL ANIMUS HERE TOO BECAUSE THEY RAN ARM AND ARM, ON THE SAME TEAM BACK IN 20 22, AND THEN AFTER THE ELECTION, YOU SAW MASTERS TAKE A DIFFERENT TASK THAN ABE HAMMADE, MASTERS WHOD A MUDSLIDELY HIS MARGIN OF DEFEAT WAS BIGGER, HE CONCEDED AND SAID HE LOST AND GOT KIND OF TRASHED FOR IT FROM MUHAMMAD AND LAKE AND THAT WING OF THE PARTY WHO DID NOT LIKE THAT NARRATIVE.

>> AND ONE MORE THING ON THIS, DID LOSING IN COURT, THAT THE SUIT FILED, WE HAVE A NEW ELECTIONS DIRECTOR?

HOW MANY ELECTIONS DIRECTOR DOES THEY HAVE DOWN THERE?

>> YOU KNOW, WE DO.

I WANT TO SAY THIS IS THE THIRD OR FOURTH THAT WE'VE SEEN -- >> I THINK THEY HAD A LONG TIME ELECTION DIRECTOR WHO RESIGNED AFTER SOME CONFLICTS AND LITIGATION WITH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.

AND SINCE THEN, IT SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN SOMETHING OF A REVOLVING DOOR.

>> HOW CONCERNED SHOULD WE BE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING AT COCHI COUNTY.

THIS IS PART OF THE STATE RESULTS.

>> I MEAN, THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

WE'RE SEEING IT ALL OVER THE STATE WHERE YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED ELECTION OFFICIALS AND ADMINISTRATORS KIND OF RESIGNING IN DROVES OVER THE PAST YEAR, THOUGH, COCHI IS PROBABLY A LITTLE MORE CONCERNING, MOST OF THE REVOLVING DOORS ARE REVOLVING FASTER THAN YOU'VE SEEN ELSEWHERE.

WHEN YOU'VE SEEN THREE ELECTION DIRECTORS LEAVE SINCE THE LAST ELECTION, ARE WE GONNA HAVE FOUR, BEFORE NOVEMBER?

YEAH, DEFINITELY CONCERNING.

>> JIM, IT SOUNDS LIKE ANDY BIGGS AND PAUL GOSAR HAVE BEEN SUBPOENAED AND ORDERED TO TESTIFY BEFORE GOING IN FRONT OF A GRAND JURY REGARDING ELECTION CONSPIRACY.

SOUNDS LIKE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS MOVING FORWARD, BUT SHE STILL JUST WON'T SAY WHEN IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT'S ALWAYS "SOON."

GETTING SOONER?

>> IT DOES SEEM THAT THINGS ARE CLOSE TO COMING TO A HEAD.

I KNOW AT ONE POINT I KNOW THEY HAD SAID THEY WERE LOOKING TO WRAP UP THE INVESTIGATION BY THE END OF MARCH.

WE'RE A LITTLE BIT INTO APRIL NOW AND THINGS SEEM TO BE ONGOING.

YOU KNOW, THE SUBPOENAS TO THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN, THAT'S THE LATEST DEVELOPMENT OUT OF THAT.

I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF REPORTS THE KIND OF WAVE OF SUBPOENAS THAT HAVE GONE OUT AND EVEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TAKING THE UNUSUAL STEP OF REQUIRING SOME OF THE SUBJECTS THAT THE INVESTIGATION, TO SHOW UP BEFORE THE GRAND JURY IN ORDER TO PLEAD THE FIFTH AMENDMENT WHICH IS ATYPICAL, NOT THE KIND OF THING THAT OFTEN HAPPENS, YOU KNOW.

SO I THINK THAT ALL OF THIS DOES KIND OF HINT TO THE FACT THAT THIS THING SEEMS TO BE DRAWING TO A CLOSE AND WE'RE GONNA GET SOME DECISIONS ON, YOU KNOW, FOR SOME GRAND JURY ACTION AND DECISIONS FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HERE I WOULD IMAGINE FAIRLY SOON.

>> YEAH, FAIRLY SOON.

TO QUOTE THE SMITHS, HOW SOON IS NOW?

>> WE'LL FIND OUT VERY SOON, I GUESS, ACCORDING TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> THREE OTHER STATES HAVE ALREADY DONE THIS, AND ARIZONA IS KIND OF PLAYING ITS CARDS CLOSE TO THE VEST, I SUPPOSE.

>> AND POINTED OUT YESTERDAY SHE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF A LATER START THAN OTHERS.

YOU KNOW, JANUARY OF LAST YEAR, MARK VERNON WAS IN OFFICE NOT PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN INVESTIGATING THE FELLOW REPUBLICANS AND MAYS QUICKLY TOOK OVER AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF ACTIVITY IN THE LAST WEEK OR TWO, THE SIGNALS THAT WERE NEARING A CONCLUSION OR AT LEAST THE NEXT PHASE IT.

>> SPEAKING OF CHRIS MAYS, THE REPUBLICANS, TALKING ABOUT INVESTIGATING HER AND HER SELECTION PROCESS AND WE HAD THE FIRST HEARING ON THIS.

HOW DID THAT GO?

>> AS EXPECTED.

WE HEARD A LOT OF -- A DISSERTATION FROM THE FORMER SUPREME COURT -- ARIZONA SUPREME COURT JUSTICE ANDREW GOULD.

A FORMER CANDIDATE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL IN '22.

WE DID NOT DISCUSS CHRIS MAYS' ACTIONS ON HER OWN, MORE KIND OF THE BROADER ISSUE OF WHAT KIND OF LEGAL AUTHORITY DOES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAVE IN THE STATE AS OPPOSED TO A LOT OF OTHER STATES THAT HAVE THE AUTHORITY PRESCRIBED BY STATE LAW.

THERE'S COURT CASES GOING BACK DECADES ABOUT LIMITING THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAN TAKE ACTION IN TERMS OF LIKE FILING LAWSUITS ON AN HONOR INITIATIVE.

WE SAW THAT UNDER A PREDECESSOR, AND THE RULE WAS AGAINST HIM, I BELIEVE.

>> AND THE FOCUS ALSO SEEMS TO BE NOT DEFENDING THE ABORTION BAN, THE 1864 ABORTION BAN.

COCHI COUNTY GOES UP AGAIN, GOING ON TO WHAT'S HAPPENING DOWN THERE.

WHAT WAS THIS ALL ABOUT?

>> POLITICS.

I THINK REALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT'S ABOUT.

AND DEMOCRATS CERTAINLY -- THAT'S THE WAY THAT THEY PRESENTED IT.

THE DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE DIDN'T SHOW UP.

THEY BOYCOTTED IT.

ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYS HELD A PRESS BRIEFING YESTERDAY TO BASICALLY KIND OF A ADVANTAGE IT AND TALK ABOUT -- SAVAGE IT AND TALK ABOUT HOW -- HOW IT WAS A SHAM, I THINK IS THE WORD SHE USED.

I THINK A LOT OF THIS IS ABOUT POLITICS.

ATTORNEYS GENERAL HAVE THE ABILITY TO DEFEND OR NOT DEFEND LAWS.

ARIZONA LAW GIVES THEM THAT ABILITY TO KIND OF PICK AND CHOOSE, AND IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, BY NO MEANS IS SHE THE FIRST ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO SAID I DON'T THINK I CAN DEFEND THIS LAW, I'M GOING TO NOT DEFEND IT.

WE SAW MARK DO THE EXACT SAME THING JUST LAST YEAR-- TWO YEARS AGO, ABOUT A LAW THAT HAD TO DO WITH THE FILMING OF POLICE OFFICERS ON THE STREET, RIGHT.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO DEFEND THIS.

WE THINK IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

SO.

>> SO SHE USED THE WORD "SHAM" BUT BASICALLY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT POLITICS, SHE BASICALLY SAID, I WON SO TOUGH LUCK, TRY AGAIN, COME BACK IN THREE YEARS AND TRY TO BEAT ME.

BUT DON'T START SOME SHAM INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE.

A LITTLE ROUGH AND TUMBLE THERE.

>> YEAH, SHE DID SEEM TO ENJOY A LITTLE CHIN MUSIC THERE.

SHE DID WIN VERY NARROWLY BUT SHE DID IN FACT DID AND REPUBLICANS OBVIOUSLY NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.

BUT THAT IS -- THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, THIS IS INHERENTLY POLITICAL POSITION IN A LOT OF WAYS.

EVEN IN ARIZONA WHERE THE THINGS ARE -- YOU'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE LIMITED IN YOUR FREEDOM OF ACTION, BUT, YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATIC ATTORNEY GENERAL IS GOING DOWN DEMOCRATIC PRIORITY, JUST LIKE THE REPUBLICAN ATTORNEYS GENERAL.

WE'VE SEEN THE REPUBLICAN PRIORITIES AND SOMETIMES THERE ARE ABOUT TO BE THINGS WHERE NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE OFF THE OTHER SIDE AND THERE WILL BE THINGS ALWAYS SUBJECT TO POLITICAL PERSUASION SUCH AS ATTORNEY GENERAL MADE A DECISION I THINK NOT TO DEFEND THE TRANS ATHLETE BANS, STUFF LIKE THAT.

>> AND THEY ALSO MENTIONED -- THESE GROUND WATERTOWN HALL THINGS THAT SHE'S ON, THEY HAD A PROBLEM WITH THOSE, AS WELL, BECAUSE WHAT SHE'S PICKING -- THEY THINK SHE'S PICKING ON FARMERS?

>> YEAH, THEY'RE GATHERING INFORMATION ABOUT THE LARGE SCALE WATER USES WHERE IT'S LARGELY NOT REGULATED AND POTENTIALLY TO THE DETRIMENT OF, YOU KNOW, ALL THE LOCALS, FOLKS WHO LIVE OUT THERE AND MAKE THEIR LIVING, YOU KNOW EITHER IN THE AGRICULTURAL FIELD OR SOME ADJACENT INDUSTRY.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLICANS ARE PRESENTING IT AS, WELL, SHE'S USING THIS AS A WAY TO BASICALLY START TO GO AFTER THOSE SMALL LOCAL FARMERS AND NOT THE BIG GIANT COMPANIES YET.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, UNCLEAR I THINK REALLY SORT OF WHAT THE END RESULT OF THESE TOWN HALLS, THESE MEETINGS ARE GOING TO BE AND KIND OF A FACT FINDING MISSION OF THE AG IS APPARENTLY ON.

>> THE CHAIR OF THIS COMMITTEE, NOT GONNA BE AT LEGISLATURE NEXT GO-AROUND?

AM I GETTING THAT RIGHT?

WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS THE SURPRISE FOR MOST PEOPLE WHO WERE WATCHING ALL OF THIS STUFF.

JACK JUAN PARKER CHAIR OF THE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE AND CHAIR THIS COMMITTEE AND IS APPARENTLY NOT GOING TO BE RUNNING.

>> INTERESTING.

INTERESTING.

ALL RIGHT.

SOME VETOES THIS WEEK.

WE GOT SOME VETOES LIKE 15 BILLS.

WHAT GOT THE HEEF-HO?

>> WELL, THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN PRETTY QUIET SO FAR.

WE SAW SOME FAIRLY PREDICTABILITY VETOES HERE.

ONE WAS INCREASING THE PENALTIES TO A FELONY FOR PROTESTORS WHO BLOCK HIGHWAYS, BRIDGES, STUFF LIKE THAT.

WE SAW SPEAKER TOMEZ VICTIMS OF COMMUNISM CURRICULUM LEGISLATION, WHICH GOVERNOR HOBBS BASICALLY SAID IT'S UNNECESSARY, WE PASSED SOMETHING SIMILAR A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR FOOD STAMP RECIPIENTS, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING REPUBLICANS -- A LONG-TERM PRIORITY FOR REPUBLICANS, THEY WANT TO CRACK DOWN IF THEY SEE ABUSE OF THE PROGRAM.

AND DEMOCRATS WANTING TO MAKE SURE THERE'S AS MUCH ACCESS AS POSSIBLE.

SO VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR.

>> AND THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS CAN GUARANTEE INCOMES, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU MENTIONED THAT OR NOT.

BUT I THINK THAT WAS ON THERE, AS WELL.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF THOSE, GUARANTYING PERHAPS FOR LOW INCOME FOLKS.

>> ARE THESE A SURPRISE TO YOU?

>> NO, NOT REALLY.

I MEAN, I THINK WHAT JEREMY SAID, I THINK A LOT OF THESE WERE HARDER IN NATURE, YOU KNOW.

THEY HAD SUPPORT FROM REPUBLICANS, LEGEND TOUR, OPEN SIGNIFICANCE DEMOCRATS.

I THINK THAT IN A LOT OF CASE IT'S A PRETTY CLEAR SIGNAL BUT A BILL WILL PROBABLY GET VETOED.

THE WATER STUFF I THINK -- YOU KNOW WHAT'S INTERESTING IS I THINK THERE WILL BE MORE WATER LEGISLATION THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE COMING UP THAT IS MORE NEGOTIATED AND KINDS OF HAS THE BUY-IN MUCH A LOT OF STAKEHOLDERS AND IT'S BEEN AN ISSUE, I THINK REPUBLICANS AND GOVERNOR HONEST AND DEMOCRATS HAVE TALKED ABOUT OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

SO IT DOES LOOK LIKE SOMETHING THAT IS INCHING TOWARD A FINISH LINE ON THAT.

>> WELL, SPEAKING OF THAT, THE BUDGET.

SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY TALKING HERE.

>> YEAH, AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT, MORE THAN WE'VE SEEN SO FAR.

I COULDN'T BEGIN TO TELL YOU HOW CLOSE THEY ARE OR HOW MUCH THEY HAVE LEFT TO WORK OUT OF.

I'M GUESSING PROBABLY A LOT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA START TO PAIR BACK THE SCHEDULE OVER THERE AND THAT SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON IS SOME BIG TICKET ITEMS TO WORK ON, THE ITEM OF COURSE IS THE BIGGEST ONE.

THEY HAVE NOT AGREED HOW MUCH THE MONEY THE STATE HAS IN ADDITION TO DOING THIS PROJECT.

>> IS THAT WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S BEEN WAITING FOR IS THE PROJECTIONS?

>> THE GOVERNOR HAS THEIR OWN BUDGET STAFF THAT COMES UP WITH HER PROJECTIONS FOR REVENUES AND SPENDING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND THEN THE LEGISLATURE HAS THEIR STAFF.

THE LEGISLATIVE STAFF IS I THINK LATER THIS MONTH SUPPOSED TO COME OUT WITH ITS LATEST FORECAST AND LOOK AT THE REVENUE SITUATION.

AND RIGHT NOW I THINK BASED ON WHAT LEGISLATIVE BUDGET ANALYSTS SAID BACK IN JANUARY, WE'RE LOOKING AT A $1.7 BILLION SHORTFALL BETWEEN THE TWO FISCAL YEARS.

IT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

DOUBLE WHAT THE GOVERNOR SAID SHE SAW THE SHORTFALL AS WAS THEIR SUGGESTION.

SO THEY'VE GOT A LONG WAY TO -- THERE'S A LOT OF GROUND YOU NEED TO COVER THERE IN ORDER TO FIND A STARTING POINT.

BECAUSE REALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE BUDGET STARTS WITH THAT REVENUE NUMBER.

HOW MUCH MONEY ARE WE GONNA MAKE AND WHERE ARE WE AT IN TERMS OF SURPLUS OR DEFICIT?

ONCE THEY AGREE ON THOSE, THEN THEY CAN START TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY APPROPRIATE AND ALLOCATE THAT MONEY.

>> AND WITH THAT SAID, ESA IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL, ALMOST TOP OF MIND FOR ALMOST EVERYONE DOWN THERE AND YET, IT SEEMS UNTOUCHABLE, AS FAR AS THE REPUBLICANS ARE CONCERNED.

IS IT COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY UNTOUCHABLE?

>> COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY.

AND I THINK GOVERNOR HONEST LAST YEAR LEARNED A VERY IMPORTANT LESSON ABOUT MAKING A PRIORITY OUT OF SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE A 0% CHANCE OF EVER RECEIVING.

BECAUSE IT WAS A LOT OF BIG TALK WHEN SHE GOT INTO OFFICE LAST YEAR, HERE'S HOW WE CAN SAVE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, WE'RE GOING TO GET RID THIS PROGRAM, SAYING IT BACK -- SCALE IT BACK AT LEAST TO WHAT IT USED TO BE, AND WHEN SHE INEVITABLY AGREED TO A BUDGET THAT DID NONE OF THOSE THINGS, THE DEMOCRATS WERE VERY UPSET WITH HER, EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KIND OF KNEW FROM THE GET-GO THAT THERE'S NO CHANCE IT COULD ACTUALLY A HAPPEN.

>> YEAH, NO WAY, NO HOW, HUH?

>> YEAH.

I DON'T SEE ANY CHANCE OF REPUBLICANS BUYING IT ON ANYTHING.

EVEN SMALL REFORMS, SMALL THINGS FOR ACCOUNTABILITY.

WE JUST RECENTLY SAW THE FREEDOM CKS.

REPUBLICAN SENATORS SENT A LETTER TO THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION BASICALLY SAID, FOLLOW THESE RULES YOU'RE CONSIDERING ABOUT LIMITING EXRAFN GANTT PURPOSE.

THOSE GO AGAINST THE BALL BECAUSE WE INTENDED FOR THIS TO HAVE NO LIMITS ON WHAT YOU CAN SPENDS YOUR MONEY ON AS LONG AS THERE'S AN EDUCATIONAL PURPOSE FOR IT.

AND STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION AND THE SUPERINTENDENT OF REPUBLICANS BACKED OFF OF THAT.

AND THEY ARE GOING TO COME BACK AGAIN NEXT YEAR IN THEORY TO RELOOK AT THOSE.

BUT, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S THE POSITION THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DEAL WITH IS ESSENTIALLY THIS PROGRAM EXISTS, THERE ARE VERY FEW RULES AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO IMPOSE ANY RULES WITH THAT.

>> AND WITH THAT SAID, WHAT ARE REPUBLICANS WILLING TO NEGOTIATE?

IF THAT'S UNTOUCHABLE, IF THAT'S THIRD RAIL HERE, WHAT ARE THEY WILLING TO WALK BACK?

>> I THINK THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, THESE NEGOTIATIONS.

THERE'S PROBABLY SOME OF THE SPENDING PERKS FROM LAST YEAR, A LOT OF THAT MONEY HAS BEEN SPENT AND A LOT OF IT IS LOCKED IN.

SOME CAN CAN BE DEFERRED FOR FUTURE YEARS WITHOUT ACTUALLY SCRATCHING THE PROJECTS THAT THE LAWMAKERS PROPOSED.

AND PAST THAT, A LOT OF -- I THINK RIGHT NOW IT'S HARD TO SAY EXACTLY WHERE THOSE ARE GOING TO COME FROM.

>> OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO -- DEMOCRATS AREN'T GOING TO GET EVERYTHING THEY WANT.

REPUBLICANS AREN'T GOING TO GET EVERYTHING THEY WANT IF THIS IS A TRUE NEGOTIATION AND COMPROMISE HERE.

WHAT DO THEY GIVE UP?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK A LOT OF IT WILL BE -- THEY'LL COME IN WITH A BIG ASK FOR SPENDING CUTS.

I CAN IMAGINE THAT THE INITIAL REPUBLICAN PROPOSAL WOULD BE, WE'VE GOT $1.7 BILLION WE'RE GOING TO CUT.

WE'RE GOING TO CUT A LOT, YOU KNOW, THE BULK OF THAT WILL BE TAKEN BACK THROUGH CUTS.

YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT'S THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE NEGOTIATION WILL BE, IN TERMS OF WHAT CUTS ARE GOING TO BE INCLUDED AND AT WHAT SCALE.

AND WHAT OTHER MECHANISMS ARE AVAILABLE FOR THE STATE TO ESSENTIALLY TRY TO TREAT THIS AS A TEMPORARY SHORTFALL THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO TURN AROUND AND, YOU KNOW, CAN THEY USE SOME MECHANIC TRICKS, CAN THEY USE SOME OTHER METHODS TO KIND OF FOREASSAULT MAKING DEEP CUTS INTO STATE SPENDING IN ORDER JUST TO GET THROUGH THE NEXT BUDGET YEAR.

>> YEAH.

AND THIS ALL HAPPENED WITH LEADERSHIP AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE RANK AND FILE, WHAT, JUST SHOW UP ONE DAY A WEEK AND CATCH THE PER DIEM AND HAVE A NICE DAY?

>> MOST OF THE BILLS ARE TAKEN CARE OF.

I MEAN, THE ONES THAT ARE ALREADY WORKING THROUGH THE PROCESS AND, I THINK PRESIDENT PETERSON DID NOT SEE A LOT OF UTILITY AND HAVING FOLKS COMING IN TO PRAY EVERY DAY AND NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE.

THEY CAN COME IN ONCE A WEEK, ANY BUSINESS THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE MUCH CAN BE DONE.

BUT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF REASON FOR FOLKS TO BE DOWN THERE UNTIL THERE'S AN AGREEMENT ON SOME OF THESE BIG TICKET ISSUES, PROP 123, CONGRESS AUTHORITY CONTINUATION I THINK IS SOMETHING THE SPEAKER MENTIONED, THAT WILL PROBABLY GET ROLLED INTO THE BUDGET NEGOTIATION.

THE WATER STUFF THAT JIM WAS MENTIONING.

THERE'S SOME BIG ISSUE WAS IT NEED TO BE RESOLVED.

THIS ISN'T THAT THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN NEXT WEEK AND VOTE ON THEM MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT KIND OF REQUIRES DAILY PRESENCE FOR FOLKS RARING TO GET GOING ON THEIR CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

>> AGAIN, PER DIEM THOUGH STILL APPLIES.

>> YEAH.

IT APPLIES.

IT APPLIES ON THE DAYS THEY DON'T SHOW UP EITHER.

$238 PER DAY IF YOU'RE OUT OF MARICOPA COUNTY AND $35 BUCKS A DAY FOR MARICOPA COUNTY.

>> YEP.

SO THEY MAY ONLY BE COMING IN ONCE A WEEK FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS BUT THEY WILL ALL BE GETTING THEIR PER DIEMS FOR SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

>> SO FAR IT'S A FAR CRY FROM WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR.

GETTING THAT PER DIEM FOR TAKING FIVE, SIX-WEEK BREAKS FOR REASONS THAT DID NOT MAKE A LOT OF SENSE FOR FOLKS.

WHEN THEY DRAG ON TO JULY, THE LONGEST SESSION IN ARIZONA HISTORY EVEN THOUGH IT WAS PROBABLY AT LEAST TWO SOLID MONTHS OF THAT WHERE NO ONE IS ACTUALLY COMING IN AND DOING ANYTHING.

>> THAT BEING SAID, IT IS ELECTION YEAR AS YOU MENTIONED, AND PEOPLE GOTTA GET THROUGHOUT AND START CAMPAIGNING.

HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO TAKE?

HOW LONG BEFORE SONY GUY COMES DOWN THE ROAD?

>> IT'S HARD TO SAY.

IN AN ELECTION YEAR, YOU USUALLY SEE THINGS MOVE FASTER.

BUT A LOT OF THEM -- SOME ARE FACING OPPOSITION, NOT GOING TO MATTER.

BUT IT WILL FOR ENOUGH OF THEM.

THEY WANT TO GET OUT THERE KNOCKING ON DOORS, THEY CAN'T TAKE MONEY FROM LOBBYISTS WHILE IN SESSION.

SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT WORKS WITH DIVIDED GOVERNMENT.

THERE'S GOING TO BE I THINK LESS INCENTIVE TO SAY, OKAY, LET'S JUST DO THIS AND GET ALONG AND GET OUT OF HERE AND YOU HAVE A DEMOCRATIC SENATOR AND REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE... >> WELL, I HAVE -- REAL QUICKLY, OLD PEOPLE GOING OUT AND NEW PEOPLE COMING IN, TRUE?

>> YEAH.

QUINOAS SAID HE'S NOT GOING TO SEEK RECOMPLEX AND THERE HAD BEEN RUMORS THAT HE WAS GOING TO RESIGN AND LOW AND BEHOLD I THINK WITH YESTERDAY, GET HIS FEET ON THE FLOOR AND SAY, OKAY, THIS IS MY LAST DAY.

>> YEAH.

AND NOT LONG AFTER WE FOUND ANOTHER APPOINTEE, AS FAR AS DEMOCRATS ARE CONCERNED FOR LDA, CORRECT.

>> YEAH, DEMOCRATS FINALLY GOT UP TO FULL STRENGTH FOR THE CAUCUS AND HOUSE.

THERE WERE A LOT OF INDOORS STILL REVOLVING THERE, AS WELL, BUT MAYBE ONCE THE THINGS WERE REREPLACED, THINGS WILL SETTLE DOWN A LITTLE BITS.

>> YOU NEED A PROGRAM OVER THERE, THE REVOLVING DOOR.

GENTLEMEN, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.