- In Chicago, 1982, seven people swallowed poison Tylenol capsules and died.

The murder shocked the country, changed how consumer products are packaged and remains officially unsolved.

Joseph Cibelli is the author of “The Tylenol Murders: A Fathers Confession to His Son.” In this book, Joe argues that the man responsible for one of the most infamous unsolved crimes in recent history was his own father, who he says terrorized his family as well as the nation.

- Joe, thank you for coming today.

- Thank you for having me.

- Joe, take us back to that time and the... the day that your father made his deathbed confession.

What was going through your mind when you heard him speak to you?

- Oh, well, he and I had not spoken very much at all since 2015.

And he... he said a few things, but the main one was he sat up in his, in his bed and he said, “Cyanide pills, I did it.” And everybody just froze.

Like what?

And then a few minutes later he said it a second time in case you didn't hear it the first time.

And now you have to understand that I-- when in 1982 when this was happening, I had the realization that my father was not only capable of doing this crime, I actually had suspected that he was doing it.

So I've carried that all those years.

So when he said that on his deathbed, I... I was not surprised.

I was shocked, but I-- it was it floored me.

But I also knew that, okay, I was right all along.

I stood firm in that belief that it was him.

And then at the very end, he gave me the final piece to the puzzle.

- When I was reading your book, The Tylenol Murders, the thing that struck me was it was this combination of telling a life history, but almost like a forensic report in terms of really threading the needle of all of the facts, circumstances and events that led up to essentially the nation being paralyzed over these murders and how it kind of destroyed a piece of innocence that people had about that they could rely on the products that they acquired from their neighborhood grocery store or drugstore.

When you decided to write the book, what was your objective?

- Well, actually, when I started to write the book, I was starting to not write the book is what I was hoping to do-- - Really?

Tell us a little bit about that.

- Well, I like I said, I've always had this suspicion that he did it, and I knew 100% that he was capable of it.

However, I think is a, you know, a child, you don't want to actually think that your parent could do this.

So even after he said that and after I had the the gut feeling, I'm like, I know he did this.

I was... I kept thinking, you know, we were in a very abusive home.

And one thing anybody from an abusive home could tell you is that you're trained to protect the abuser.

So even though he and I had been worlds apart, my first instinct was like, no, he didn't do this.

I got to find out that he did not do this.

So I started going down some avenues looking for exculpatory evidence.

Anything that could say he couldn't have done this.

He was out of town.

He was out of the country, anything.

And every time I went down one of those paths, I was finding more and more and more clues that put me right back to where I started.

So it actually did not start to be a book.

It was looking to kind of exonerate him, in my own mind at least.

And then the more evidence I found in the more dots that connected, I said, I've got to put this into a format somehow.

And I had this, this fear that something could happen to me and I would not get to tell this story.

So I was kind of on fire to get this book done.

- Well... I'd like to know how you felt in writing the book.

You say that you were on fire to get it done.

As a reader, reading the book was kind of painful, um, in just vicariously reading the experience, living the experiences that you and your brother and sister and your mom went through.

And so it raises the question.

Reliving all of that through the experience.

Was it painful or cathartic or something else?

- The whole process itself was painful.

Just having to sit with with these memories and what happened.

And I didn't put every act of violence that happened in our house into the book purposely.

I didn't want it to be a litany of woes about myself.

I wanted it to focus on the story, but I had to put enough in there to paint a picture of this person.

So as I was writing it, I kind of started feeling a little bit freer, but also terrified because we were raised to protect and we were raised to keep silent.

When we left our house, we were perfect.

I mean, nobody would have guessed anything.

It was what was going on behind the doors.

So for me to expose everything that has happened in my life on a very major scale was terrifying and at the same time cathartic.

Once it was done, my whole life I had kind of spent I had a veneer and I never I would never let people in past that veneer, maybe just slightly.

And then it was like, nope, you're getting too far.

And I feel now, as people would say, you know, my life is an open book.

And it is.

And I feel... I feel like people are now knowing me, who I really am, behind the veneer.

And it's so in that way it's been cathartic.

- Take us all back to the moment that these deaths are happening, set the stage for us in terms of the facts and circumstances of the Tylenol murders, for just a moment.

- Okay.

The facts of the murders as they happened?

- Yeah.

Yes.

In terms of the facts of what happened.

How many people it happened to essentially, and what the reaction was.

- Okay.

So the way that it started, there was a girl who was 12 years old and her name was Mary Kellerman.

And I like to say the victims names to it keeps it in their own way.

It keeps them alive in that way.

Mary Kellerman was 12.

I was 11 at the time, so she was my age.

So she had woken up one day and she had a cold, and her father gave her a Tylenol.

And then he heard that she boom, she crashed in the bathroom and it just everything exploded from there.

And doctors at that point did not know what had caused this.

She was 12, so they weren't thinking it was a stroke or a heart attack or anything like that.

And it was kind of a mystery.

And then the next day and that was in Elk Grove Village, Illinois, and then just north of there in Arlington Heights, Illinois, there were actually three people who passed away from the tainted Tylenol.

One had taken it.

His family was gathering back at the house after he had died.

And then two more people ended up taking Tylenol, and then they died.

So there was there was quite a scene, from what I understand in Arlington Heights, that they were trying to figure out what is going on in this house.

Why did three people just die, this mysterious death?

Is there a gas leak?

Was there poisoned food?

And what is going on?

And there was a nurse.

Her name was Helen Jensen.

She's still alive.

And Helen Jensen got there.

And the only thing that she could come up with was the bottle of Tylenol sitting there.

She said she counted out the Tylenol and she's like, okay, there's three people dead.

There's six Tylenol missing.

It's got to be the Tylenol.

And those were kind of her famous words were, “It has to be the Tylenol.” And so one of the officers who was on the scene had said that he had just heard about a young girl the day prior who had taken a Tylenol, and then she died.

And so that's when everything exploded.

And I actually had a chance to talk to Helen Jensen.

And that was lovely.

So I was like, you're kind of a hero.

So, um, thats- - Well, you know, Tylenol, one of the most trusted brands, not just in America but around the world.

And so, in a way, I would say that this set of murders pierce the veil of some of the fundamental assumptions people had, you know, in terms of just how they went about their daily lives and bought products and consume them and that sort of thing.

How do you think after the murders, America was different?

- We- like I think you said it earlier.

We lost some innocence when that happened.

Um, you know, you would go to the store and you would buy a box of Tylenol and it was not glued shut.

You could pop it open, the cap just would pop off.

There was some cotton in there and then it was exposed.

And after that, I mean, as you know, I mean, I do this all the time.

I'll be trying to open something and there's like four seals on it, and I'd think about my father.

And I was like, well, that must be the legacy that he wanted to leave.

Was this because at that point in 1982, we did not have the Federal Anti-Tampering Act that came into effect in 1983 after the murders.

And it was after that that all of the packaging changed.

And I do think, honestly, my father was of the mentality of the type who would think, “Well, yes, you know, seven people died, but look how many people didn't because of what I did.” - Yeah.

- That is it's a very sad fact.

But that was his how he worked.

- Take... your father was two people or actually he was many people.

- Many.

- Okay.

You refer to him as bad Dan, this Dan, that Dan.

And, um... But when he was in the home, describe for us what life was like when he was at home with you and the rest of the family.

- I think to sum it in one word, it was volatile.

You did not know from moment to moment what was going to come at you.

And I had trained myself to listen and to watch and to hear and to observe every move he made, because I felt really like your safety depended on it.

And I was also at that point I had a younger brother and a younger sister who were, you know, quite a bit younger than I was, and I was looking out for them as well.

And so he could come home from work, and I could tell when I heard how he shut the car door, what kind of mood he was in and what direction we would have to go.

So it was volatile.

It could go from he could be laughing, you know, sitting.

He had this, uh, chair in the living room and he would be sitting in his chair, and he could be laughing and having a good time.

And then like that, I mean, he could throw an ashtray at you.

- One of the most disturbing scenes in the book is where it is that one day he grabs a gun and he puts it to your head and makes you repeat after him uh, a... a... a sentence.

- Yes... he- - What was the sentence?

- Sir.

Yes, sir.

The gun is always loaded, sir.

- And then he did this - made you say the same thing, pointing it at your toddler brother.

- Mhm.

He was three.

- And infant sister.

- Mhm.

- What do you think that was about?

- For him, it was control.

He wanted to see us scared.

He was in some way.

He was training us for something.

And I mean that story in the book that was very painful to write because, I mean, I could still envision it how he kind of.

He invaded the house and the door flew open, and we had two steps into the living room, and he leapt over the steps.

And before he even landed, he had a service weapon in his hand.

He was a police officer.

He had the service weapon in his hand.

And he just grabbed me, and he put that gun to my head and he asked me, he said, “Do you think this gun is loaded?” And I said, “Yes.” And so he told me, he goes, “When I ask you that question, from now on, you answer it and you say, ”Sir, yes, sir.

The gun is always loaded, sir.” So he said, “I'm going to ask you again.” So he put the gun back to my head, asked me and I said, “Sir.

Yes, sir.

The gun is always loaded, sir.” He kind of tossed me off to the side.

And then my brother - and I can picture this still- he was three and he froze.

What- I mean now, I would call it he went catatonic and I would say it was at least a good 20 minutes before he started to come back.

He was just frozen.

He looked like a little mannequin standing there outside of my sister's playpen.

And so my dad grabbed my brother and had him almost in a headlock and put the gun to him like this, and he looked at me and he said, “Do you think this gun is loaded?” And I said, “Sir, yes, sir.

The gun is always loaded, sir.” And then, my little sister, who was just barely a year old in the playpen, he picked her up and held her in his arms and he did it.

“Your sister's life is in your hands.

Do you think this gun is loaded?” And I said, “Sir.

Yes, sir.

The gun is always loaded, sir.” And he put her back down, and he went about his business as if nothing happened.

And I just- my brother was still standing, catatonic.

And I just grabbed my sister.

I was, um, I was 11 at this point.

I might have still been ten.

And I just held her by me.

Like I could feel her heart beating.

And it just I held her like both of our lives depended on this.

And it was it was a terrifying moment.

And that unfortunately, that's not the only time that happened.

But I needed to put that incident in the book to paint the picture.

- Your mother went through her own version of hell along with you and your brother and sister.

There will be people who are empathetic to the horrors that she had to deal with.

There will be others who will say, “Why stay?” How did, in hindsight, as a grown man, looking back at being in that home and your mother being there, what feelings did that engender with you in terms of how you felt about how your mother dealt with things?

- When it comes to my mom, I was there as a witness as of what she went through.

She had made a decision to go back to nursing school, and my father would beat her up on a regular basis about going to school.

So I saw what she was going through.

And she was at school or she was still working.

She she did hair like I followed in her footsteps not long after that, before I started going back to school.

And she she was gone.

And I have had this conversation with her.

And I said, “What- what were you thinking?

What did you know?

What didn't you know?” And she said, “I swear to you,” she said, “I took his beatings because I knew that we had a home.” And she said, “I would have never imagined that he would have done the things that he did to my children.” Because he did not do these things when she was around.

It was generally the second she was out the door.

Um... You could call him, you know, he was a sadist.

He liked to see us scared and he liked to see us suffering.

But it was not when she was around, because when she was there, she took it.

So in my own way, I feel like-- - To protect you all.

- Yes.

She took it.

And she honestly- I mean, if she was here today with us, she would tell you that I honestly did not think he would hurt his own children.

- The thing that was chilling as a reader again, of the book was that your father operated in many spaces where he was liked, respected, valued.

He was a cop, he was a firefighter.

Um... He was a deacon in a church, I believe, and in all of those roles, um... seemingly well thought of.

And the term banality of evil, um... sort of came to mind.

When you think about all of those spaces where your your father operated... How did everyone miss what lay underneath?

- He... he was a manipulator.

He would let you see what he wanted you to see.

There are still people who are like, “I just am having such a hard time with this because he was always so nice to me.” And what I will tell people is people act one way in public and then they act completely different behind a closed door.

So he did have a lot of different personas, and people who were behind closed doors with us saw what I saw.

And the minute we were all of us, we were conditioned as soon as we were outside.

Everything's perfect.

He's wonderful, you know, we're all great.

Everything is lovely in our house.

- And in the intervening years, share with us what's happened to your sister and brother who also experienced this trauma in this home life?

- To me, it is heartbreaking because I love my brother and I loved my sister so much.

- Loved your sister?

- Yes.

My sister passed away in 2013.

Um, to talk about my brother.

Since my brother was young, my brother was the one out of the three of us who got what I would call the worst of the abuse.

From what I could see, when I got to about ten years old, my father, I could stand up to him.

I wouldn't flinch, but my brother was a child.

He was a baby.

And I mean, my father had thrown him down the stairs.

My father would just belt him across the room.

And my brother at a young age started to drink, and he got into marijuana.

And that led to other things and that led to other things.

So my my brother has suffered with his own demons his whole life.

And, you know, when you when you're in that situation and you're looking at somebody and you want to you want to look at them and be like, you know what, just snap out of it.

And people will say that, “I wish he would just grow up.” And I'm like, you don't understand.

I saw what my brother went through and I understand why he is the way he is, and I am constantly reaching down into the fire for him and just grabbing him.

And I told him, you know, when you go off the rails, I'll still be standing right here waiting for you.

And he is doing better now.

He actually wrote the the post-log in the book and it was really well done.

And I'm very proud of him.

He's taking a lot of steps in the right direction now.

And for... for him... him addressing the truth of what happened in our house has been like a ray of sunshine for him.

I think he was always so on our dad's side, and anybody who was against our father was against him too.

And when I wrote the book, he read it once, and then he read it again and he started understanding.

He was like, “You know what?

None of this was normal.

Nothing that happened in that house was normal.” Aside from the murders.

Just the day to day life in our house was not normal.

- And what happened to your sister?

- Oh, it's the biggest heartbreak in my life.

My sister, um... We were ten years apart.

My birthday is July 17th, 1971.

Hers is July 15th, 1981.

So we were almost exactly ten years apart.

And I kind of I feel like in a way I helped raise her because I was actively trying to protect her and keep her away from things.

So in 2013... Well, actually about 2009, my sister had had a surgery and it was not quite done right.

And she started becoming addicted to prescription painkillers.

And her life evolved down that track.

But because of how we were raised, like, if you saw my sister, you would not think there was anything going on.

But behind the scenes she was a mess.

And she had attempted suicide a few times.

And I mean, I understand that and I would ask her, I'd say, “Liz, what is going on?

What is going on?” And she's like, “I can't.

I just can't even talk about it right now.” So towards the end of her life, she had started in a new therapy program, and she kept telling me before she went in, she said, “I'm scared.” And I said, “What are you scared of?” And she said, “There's things that people don't know and I'm going to address them.” And I was like, oh, this should be interesting.

So she had written some journals, and then she had some books that she had taken notes in, and my sister had gotten married and they bought a house.

And when they were moving in the house, my sister did not bring those books into the house.

She gave them to a friend of hers to hold, because she didn't even want her husband at this point to know what had happened to her.

So a few years after my sister died, it was just it was eating me alive.

I wanted to know what happened.

So I called this friend of hers who had these books, and I did not know that she had these books and journals.

And I called her and she said, “I've been waiting for this call.” I said, “What?” - Really?

- She said, “I was waiting to see how long it would take you to figure out what I know.” And I said, “What do you know?” And she told me that in these group sessions that my sister had said that my father raped her from the time she was six until she was 13.

And you know, when you hear that over the phone, you just... what reaction do you have?

And I was like - I said her name.

Her name is Sandy.

She would be fine with me saying her name - “Sandy, what what do you know?” And she said, “Joey, I have journals in your sister's handwriting telling what happened to her.” And I said, “I need those journals.” So she had originally sent me screen pictures of them, and then she did send me the journals.

And I mean, it's gruesome.

It's-it's-it's very... what happened to her - and nobody had any idea.

- And so what ended up happening to your sister?

- She died in 2013.

She had actually gotten clean off the painkillers, and she was getting ready to go to, um... to work.

She was a teacher and, you know, she was doing very well.

And my mom went over to the house and walked in the door, and she heard the shower running.

And she was like, “Where is she?

Where is she?” And I sister was face down in her bedroom naked.

She had been getting ready to get into the shower and she-she died.

She had a pulmonary embolism.

- I want to go back to your father.

There are some people - the case is still open, and some people, um... have different theories.

When you hear the contrary theories that it wasn't your father, what's the most compelling piece of evidence that you would... you concede that it maybe was not your dad?

And then how do you refute that?

- The most compelling evidence that I have to say that it was him?

- Yeah.

What's the most compelling argument against it being your father?

- Oh, against it.

Everybody, um... in 82, there was a-- there was a guy and everybody knows his name is James Lewis.

He wrote an extortion letter to Johnson & Johnson saying, you know, “If you want the killings to stop wire $1 million to this bank account.” And it was a bank account in Chicago, and it was actually his wife's former boss bank account.

It was like he was setting this up.

I mean, he was clearly not right in the head, but they focused on him.

The FBI was focusing on him.

All law enforcement was focusing on him.

- And if, if I recall, ultimately he was not charged.

- No, he was never charged- - He was not charged.

- with the murders.

He was charged with extortion.

And he did go to prison for extortion.

And a lot of people in their minds think that that was the end of it.

Like, well, he went to prison, but he didn't go to prison for this crime.

He went to prison for the extortion.

- And in our final moments, just a very quick response.

Are you okay?

- I am okay.

Thank you.

It's been a road, it's been a journey.

And I feel like I'm coming out at the other end and there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train this time.

So yes, I am well, thank you.

- Thank you for sharing your story.

- Thank you.

- The book is “The Tylenol Murders: A Fathers Confession to His Son.” Joseph Cibelli, thank you, again.

- And you.

And that's our show.

Thanks to our guest and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time right here on KVIE.