>> I'm Rhonda Carey, and I live in Beaufort, South Carolina.

And I have the privilege of working in assisting and building programs about African American history specific to South Carolina, focused in the reconstruction era.

I'm an armchair supporter and advocate of African American culture and heritage, and so I've been able to work alongside folks who are steeped in that work and it's been a privilege.

I think the book is just beautiful.

The photographs are inspiring, as well as really, they really capture the essence of the beautiful extent sites and places around the state and just on face value it's a useful tool, a very useful tool when you look at tourism and how people can get around the state and learn about all these important sites.

And so I think that it's a very practical book in how it's been laid out and formatted, but also a very inspiring book at the same time.

I think it really has a place with the book being organized and featuring sites and places throughout the state.

I think what it does is it really allows the reader, the user to understand, their community and their place in South Carolina history, because the sites and the places that are featured are right in lots of folks' backyard.

And so I think what it does is it brings light to the importance and the legacy that exists in each of the communities around the state.

I'm Holly Jackson.

Join us as we bring you powerful stories from both new and established southern authors as we sit by the river.

♪ music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Major funding for By The River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina for more than 40 years.

The ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

Additional funding is provided by the USCB Center for the Arts, Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB and the Pat Conroy Literary Center.

Hi, and welcome to By the River.

I'm your host Holly Jackson.

It's another beautiful day here at our Waterfront Studio in Beaufort, South Carolina.

As part of our love letter to southern writing, we are bringing you powerful stories from both new and established southern authors and photographers, today, in this case.

This season we are focusing on unexpected southern stories and writers and storytellers.

And we are here with the author or the photographer, rather, of South Carolina Green Book, Joshua Parks.

And Joshua, thank you so much for joining us.

I have so many questions.

We have little time, so we're just going to get right at it.

Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became part of this project and what this project really is.

<Joshua> So thank you for having me.

So, a little bit about myself.

I was actually raised in Jacksonville, Florida, but my entire dad's side of the family is deeply rooted in the low country, particularly James Island, South Carolina, which is near Folly Beach off the coast of Charleston.

I'm sure if you've been to Charleston, or you've been to Folly Beach, you had to pass through James Island.

So the majority of my family is actually from a small island on an island.

So, Sol Legare Island is located right near the coast of James Island.

So small Gullah, Geechee Island.

I've been going there since I was a kid and I always was just very interested in, in my family on that side because growing up in Jacksonville, you know, it's more of an urban city.

And coming to Charleston, well, James Island, growing up, it was a lot slower.

The pace was a lot slower and it was a lot more rural.

So just that change of pace always kind of intrigued me.

So I think I had a special connection with, with James Island since I was a kid.

But, you know, I actually got into photography as a documentarian, just shooting photos of my family, shooting photos of places that I've been.

And I really like to credit my uncles who subconsciously, and not even just my uncles, but a lot of the elders in my family who always had, we always had large photo books and photo collections.

So as a kid I would always go through the photo collections of our family and I always loved going through the photos.

And I think that's what subconsciously led me to photography, because I didn't study it, you know, in school as a, as a discipline.

I studied political science and history, but I fell in love with the camera.

And so that's what really brought me to this project.

When I got hired at the International African American Museum, Dr. Brenda Tindel, who was at the time, who hired me and who I was working with.

And she told me about the Green Book project.

And this was actually the first project that I got put on when I got hired.

So this is my very first project and you know, I just, I just thank Brenda because she, she, you know, she had the trust in me to, you know, to take this project with care in a level of seriousness and creativity.

So she put me onto this project and, you know, the rest is history.

Yeah.

<Holly> So for those who don't know what the Green Book of South Carolina is, how would you describe it?

<Joshua> I would describe it as a...it's a, it's not only a travel book.

Just for some background context, the Green Book is inspired, the Green Book of South Carolina is inspired by, you know, the Green book, which Black travelers used during the Jim Crow era to travel throughout the south, the, even the Midwest and the north, because during that time, obviously, segregation and Jim Crow made it very dangerous for Black people to travel.

So there was a green book by Victor Green that was published, I want to say the first year it was published, was 1936, all the way up until the 60s.

And this is inspired by that green book in the spirit of traveling, in the spirit of Black cultural and heritage sites.

But this, this book is a little bit different because it highlights cultural sites that some may not necessarily be functioning right now.

Some are small houses, and churches that are trying to be converted into museums and into cultural sites.

So this really just highlights a lot of the cultural sites throughout the state of South Carolina right now.

And it highlights the people as well who are doing the work, who are like stewards in those communities and who are trying to, you know, get these historical sites up and running and functioning.

So that they can serve their community like they did in the past.

A lot of them are sites that would've been featured in the, you know the original Green Book, but now they're not necessarily utilized the same way.

<Holly> And so, you know, one thing that I'm always amazed by when it comes to a photographer in a, in a situation like this or even, you know, writing or for a newspaper, you have to pick that one image and you want that one image to tell, you know, such a big story.

And it's just this, you know, it's not moving.

It's still one, one look.

How difficult was that in this case, especially the ones that are not just, you know, a building or a land, whenever you're incorporating the people, how did you, what kind of challenge was it to pick that one photo?

<Joshua> That's the hardest part.

So I took a lot of photos.

It was difficult to arrange, you know, people to be in some of the locations because, it was statewide and some of the folks had difficulty, some of them were elders, so they had difficulty moving around and stuff like that.

So I really want to credit Dawn Dawson-House, who is with the WeGOJA Foundation, who was really the architect of putting this book together.

She, <Holly> a lot of logistics.

>> A lot of logistics.

And I believe she is from Beaufort.

<Holly> Okay.

>> But - Yeah, a lot of logistics.

And she would basically put me in contact with some of the stewards, the community stewards of those historic sites.

And then we would meet up and they would usually take me on a tour and tell me about the site.

I would get to explore the site and, you know, I would take a lot of photos, but I, I really made it a point, you know, that I didn't want the book just to be, you know, buildings or landscapes.

I really wanted it to be people and faces.

So I took a lot of photos, I took a lot of portraits and luckily I would send them to Hub City Press, Meg, who had the privilege of choosing a lot of the photos because <Holly> Oh, nice.

>> It would've been, I couldn't do it.

<Holly> You just couldn't do it.

>> I was just like- I just sent her a batch of photos and, she would, she would do the honor of, of actually selecting which photos, you know, from a more, I guess a more objective place.

<Holly> Sure.

>> Because I fell in love with a lot of the photos and would've been very difficult for me to choose one or two, you know, to represent, you know, a certain site.

So luckily I didn't have the job of, of selecting the photos that got into the book.

You know, I just kind of sent over what I felt were the strongest photos and I trusted.

Man, you know.

<Holly> Well, I really want to get into the emotional component, and there are a few angles of that I want to talk about.

The first one is the people who you photographed, you know, they may have thought, you know, that they get an email, they get a phone call, they're showing up at this place, they're going to get in front of a picture, but once they're there, they hear about the project.

Was there a time whenever things got emotional for them in some cases?

<Joshua> Yeah, because a lot of these sites, you know, the people who are the stewards of these communities, they have been struggling to get funding, struggling to keep the sites up and running, struggling to keep them from being demolished, just struggling to like, keep the story going and tell the story and keep that legacy.

So I think this book is special because so many of these sites in this book, they aren't the sites that you would necessarily see in an academic book or a history book or a textbook.

A lot of these sites are sites that have been overlooked.

They've been, they're, you know, they're off the beaten path.

They're not somewhere that you'll necessarily go as a tourist or it's not a tourist destination.

So these are sites that I feel like a lot of people, you know, not the people who, who understand the importance of all of these sites, but you know, some people who feel like, you know, their, that their history isn't that important.

That, you know, that church from 1889, that's in your neighborhood that you pass by every day.

You know that it's just, it's just an old building, but it's actually, you know, it's actually important and actually tells a story.

So there were times when, you know, I met with particularly elders who, who really, it really was emotional for them because they were re-telling the stories and the fact that there was interest in, in these stories.

And, you know, from a genuine place.

I think that really touched a few of 'em.

And I really want to go back to a story when I was on Daufuskie Island, and that was my first, this was my first time on Daufuskie Island.

<Holly> Okay.

>> You know, and for those of you who have never been, you can only get there by ferry.

<Holly> Yeah.

Don't forget anything in the car.

>> Don't forget it in the car.

There's no bridge.

You can't drive there.

So I get on the ferry and, you know, we go meet some of the people who are, you know, there to receive us.

And I met this 96 year old gentleman and he, we went to his house and he showed me around his house and he showed me his, a trailer that was in his yard that really was a bus that he turned into this like almost just local museum of just all this stuff from decades, from photos to little trinkets to, to books, to magazines, to articles, to everything you can name, you know, was just in this small little bus that was sitting on his property.

And you know, it's just so many of those types of stories that aren't being told right now.

And, you know, just being able to spend that time with him, you know, beyond the photographs and beyond, you know, the book, the project, just being able to meet these people in a, you know, build relationships.

Because I've built so many relationships across the state of South Carolina.

<Holly> It seems like the elders were the most impactful for you.

<Joshua> Yeah.

>> What was kind of your takeaway collectively from them that they want, what message do they want to get across to the generations who follow?

<Joshua> I think really what they want to get across is that, you know, our history is important.

That we have to be the stewards and the storytellers of our own history.

That, you know, that they have paved the way and that they've, they've done their part.

<Holly> Right.

<Joshua> A lot of 'em, they're tired, you know, and they really want the younger generations to step up and really, you know, pass that baton.

And like, you know, now you have to be the one who makes sure that, make sure that the taxes are paid for this building that makes sure, you know, the building isn't falling into disrepair or to take it to the next level.

You know, we...renovated the building.

We kept the building intact for generations.

Now we're trying to turn it into a museum or a cultural center.

You need to figure that out.

<Holly> Right, right.

Trying to inspire.

<Joshua> It's your job to figure that out, you know, so, and really the only way to preserve, you know, the history is to, you know, build these institutions and these organizations.

So I think they've definitely led by example.

And if I could take away, you know, one thing from my journeys across the state is that, you know, it's time to pass the baton and it's time to get, you know, for my generation to really get serious about preserving, preserving this history.

<Holly> Do you feel like - how long did this, this project last for you?

<Joshua> This project took about <Holly> -to take all photos <Joshua> about a year.

Roughly.

Give or take.

<Holly> About a year, Okay.

So yeah, I mean you were, you were really focused for a year on this thing, at least.

So do you feel like you are a different person because of this project?

And if so, in what ways?

<Joshua> Absolutely.

I think that this project made me a better photographer and not even a photographer, like in a, in a technical sense, but like, photographer as, you know, ethnologist or a photographer as anthropologist or a photographer as someone who not only takes pictures of pretty things and, and you know, pretty people, but takes photos that become historical records, because I think this book serves as a historical record because a lot of these sites, they're end- I would...consider them endangered, you know, and some of them in 20 years might not exist unfortunately.

So I think that, you know, this project definitely gave me a deeper understanding of, the role of the artists and the role of photographers when it comes to preserving history and, and culture.

<Holly> You know, one thing I love is that you used your education and your passion and put it together and it's represented in this one project.

<Joshua> Right.

Right.

>> So that's really cool.

What kind of stories have you heard from readers?

People who've gotten their hands on the books?

And I'm sure there's this, wait a minute, I didn't know that this existed.

<Joshua> You know, it's funny now that this book is out, we get more emails and calls about what we missed.

<Holly> Oh yeah.

<Joshua> of what we left out.

So, which is a good thing.

<Holly> Yeah.

>> Because now people are realizing that, "Oh, like I said before, that church down the street, "that from 1889, that's just an abandoned building.

"It actually is wor- it is, it's important.

It's history.

And it's worth being documented because I think this is like a bottom up version of history.

Usually we, we, you know, we learn history from the top down, from the generals and the, you know, the military men and the statesmen.

But this is a history, like a people's history.

And I think this really democratized what people feel is history and what's worthy of being recorded, you know, and put into a book.

You know, once it's, once it's in a book now it's legitimate, right?

<Holly> Right.

That's right.

<Joshua> So it's funny, but like I said, we got a lot of emails about, you know, what we missed.

And I think that's good because version one almost necessitates a version two.

<Holly> Absolutely.

Absolutely.

>> Now, you know, people are like, oh yeah.

I want my grandmother's church to be documented.

<Holly> And that shows you the passion that's there.

<Joshua> Yeah.

<Holly> So I really love that.

I'm from Bishopville, by the way, home of Pearl Fryer's <Joshua> Oh, that's nice.

<Holly> topiary garden.

So what you think about that?

<Joshua> I got to visit.

Beautiful, beautiful.

That's like a dream, like as far as landscapes, that's a dream.

And the fact.

<Holly> I love his story.

<Joshua> Yeah.

<Holly> That, you know, I don't know if you heard this part that it all started with trying to win Yard of the Month.

<Joshua> Yeah.

<Holly> That's where it all began.

He's in this competition, I'm gonna win, I'm gonna win.

And boy did he won Yard of the Century, Decade.

<Joshua> Century.

<Holly> Exactly.

So yeah.

<Joshua> That was an amazing visit.

<Holly> Whenever people ask me where I'm from, I say, Bishopville home of Pearl Fryers Topiary Garden, because in some way, people have heard of that.

So.

<Joshua> Right.

Yeah.

That was one of my favorite spots to go to.

Just the amount of time and effort that it would take.

Because I mean, I grew up having to cut the yard.

and like, I'm like, ugh, I got to cut the yard.

And I'm like this, this guy is literally cultivating a whole, (laughs) a whole art museum on his yard.

<Holly> Yes.

And it's just, yes.

<Joshua> It's amazing to see that.

So, you know, and it just shows so many hidden gems that are in South Carolina that people wouldn't know about, you know, if it wasn't for, you know, books like this or publications like The Green Book, which was already online.

But, you know, we wanted to make a print copy because we know people like actual books and you might be able to carry around.

<Holly> Who do you hope will be the readers of this book?

<Joshua> I hope particularly...everyone.

But I think this book is like a love letter, to Black Charlestonians, Black South Carolinians.

<Holly> Sure.

<Joshua> Excuse me.

To really, you know, appreciate their history and hopefully a younger generation can pick this book up and see, you know, that this history is worth telling and that, you know, we are, we're still making history.

<Holly> Right.

>> You know, It's 2022 and we still have a lot of stuff to record.

We still have a lot of things to do and we're still doing a lot of important things.

So hopefully this is an example, of the importance of building organizations and institutions because almost every last one of these sites were once organizations and institutions that served the Black community.

<Holly> You talked about Daufuskie standing out.

Who, what are some other ones that really stood out to you?

Either people or locations that you just, you'll never forget?

<Joshua> I want to say, so being my family's from the low country, so I'm very low country oriented.

<Holly> Sure.

<Joshua> But this book forced me to break out of that.

And I had to travel throughout the state.

I had to travel all the way from the low country through the Midlands, to the Pee Dee region, all the way to the upstate, Piedmont.

And I think one of the sites in the upstate that really stood out was, it was in Seneca, the Bertha Lee Strickland Museum and Cultural Center.

And essentially this is a home that was converted into a museum and cultural center, which a lot of these sites are in a sense.

But this really stood out because of a lady named Ms. Shelby Henderson, who is the executive director of that, that museum.

And it stood out because, you know, I was going there to photograph the site and I just showed up and I just started photographing outside, not thinking much of it.

<Holly> Right.

<Joshua> And I see this woman walk out the building, I didn't know anyone was in the building.

And she's kind of like suspiciously looking at me like, whatcha doing here?

<Holly> What are doing here?

<Joshua> What are you doing here?

And I told her who I was and I told her what I was doing and she was already familiar with the project, very integral in this project.

And once she realized who I was and what I was doing, she just kind of welcomed me with open arms.

And she took me to lunch and we just talked.

She just told me all about, the history of Seneca and the history of, you know, Black people in the upstate in general.

And, you know, just the stories that I heard, and what she shared with me gave me like a very deep appreciation for South Carolina history in general because the low country does get a lot of shine when it comes to, you know, telling the story of South Carolina.

And I think just being able to go to the upstate and meet so many people from the upstate gave me a broader perspective of and appreciation of Black history in Black people throughout, you know, the whole state of South Carolina.

<Holly> Yeah, you're right.

It's something I haven't really considered, but it is - <Joshua> Yeah.

>> Mainly the stories that we see nationally hear about and read about are, you know, more low country.

And so this, this shows that it's all state All statewide.

<Joshua> Yeah.

>> And that you went all throughout.

So what are some other standouts?

I imagine you've made a lot of friends through the way.

Are there are a lot of people who I see in these pictures who - <Joshua> Yes.

>> are people you talk to regularly now?

<Joshua> Another standout I would say is historic Jamestown.

And that is right outside of Florence.

And I went there and I met a man named Terry James.

<Holly> Okay.

<Joshua> Who I'm pretty sure a lot of people who are, who are watching this program probably know or heard of Terry James.

He's a very interesting person in his field especially.

So I went to Historic Jamestown and basically this was a settlement community, and a settlement community essentially is after the Civil War, a lot of newly freed African Americans were setting up these self-sustaining communities, you know, that were usually agricultural communities.

And historic Jamestown basically is representative of that in Florence, South Carolina.

So he took me down this, this dirt road and all the way to this, the location that's in this book, which is the last standing structure of Historic Jamestown, which is a small wooden house.

And I believe that it, that it was his great-grandfather's or great-great grandfather's home, and just to know that's the, the last structure standing from what was once, you know, a flourishing settlement community.

And you know, him just telling me the story about, you know, the struggle to maintain the land, to retain the land when it comes to development, when it comes to just the cost in general, to really renovate the space and turn it into one of those, you know, like you say, house museums.

That's, what he's trying to do right now.

So just him telling me that story and being able to see that and know that there are so many other, you know, historic James towns in South Carolina that probably aren't getting shine or aren't getting the attention that they need or support that they need, also made me think about this book in a different way because it's also a guide to, you know, what sites to support, because a lot of these sites are, they're active.

<Holly> Right.

And they're in the midst of upgrading, renovating, reviving.

So this also can guide you toward, you know, what sites should I put some money or resources into so that they can, you know, the people who are stewards in these communities can actually, you know, make good on that, you know, accomplish their goals and whatever it is that they're doing with these sites.

<Holly> Well, you know what an honor it was for you to, I know it was work, but also.

<Joshua> Yeah.

<Holly> To be a part of, all of the story, and be able to document it.

It must be so special to you.

We've joked about a part two, but I have to ask, do you plan on making it a part two?

<Joshua> That is a question for do we go to foundation?

<Holly> Okay, but would you like to see that?

<Joshua> Hub City Press and the International African American Museum?

<Holly> Do you think there's enough?

<Joshua> I do.

I think that people have received it very well and people definitely would, would want a part two.

And like I said before, part two.

<Holly> Do you think there are enough places to support it?

<Joshua> We could have did a Green Book on only the low country <Holly> Wow!

>> Or only the Midlands.

<Joshua> Like it's that much rich history.

So I think it's definitely, you know, the history is out there.

It's just we have to do it all over again.

<Holly> That's right.

<Joshua> I would love to do I had fun.

<Holly> Yeah.

I can tell just by the way you talk, I can tell that your heart's in it.

>> I love the concept.

I love the way it's, you know, bite sized pieces.

<Joshua> Yeah.

>> And I love a book that I can just open anywhere and start so I really like the way it's put together.

Unfortunately we're out of time, but it's really been a pleasure hearing from you.

<Joshua> Thank you so much.

<Holly> Like I said, I can just tell that your heart's in it too and that makes it all the more enjoyable to read.

<Joshua> Thank you so much - <Holly> Thanks for joining us.

<Joshua> Appreciate it.

And thank you everyone for joining us for By the River.

I'm your host, Holly Jackson.

We look forward to seeing you next time.

♪ music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Major funding for By the River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina for more than 40 years.

The ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

Additional funding is provided by the USCB Center for the Arts Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB and the Pat Conroy Literary Center.

♪