Hi, I'm Hermine Hartmann, and I want to welcome you to N'digo Studio.

We've got some special guests for our living room today.

We're going to talk about politics.

Politics of now.

Politics of today.

Headlines.

They change absolutely.

Every single hour.

And the rhetoric?

Well, it's louder than ever before.

And the nation seems caught between transformation.

Turmoil.

Is it change?

What is it?

So joining me are some of the sharpest journalists covering the political frontline voices who help us make sense of the chaos.

They write about it.

They think about it, they talk about the characters, and they look at the consequences.

We're going to talk about leadership.

We're going to talk about what has happened in media, misinformation, social media, and the mood of the American people.

What's real, what's spin and what's next?

Politics in real time, through the eyes of those who write the very first draft of history.

My guests, they are Curtis Lawrence.

He's a former journalist with the Chicago Sun-Times and Block Club and Darcel Rocky.

She's with the Chicago Tribune.

They are both award winning journalists, and we want to hear what they think about today.

N'digo Studio, N'digo Studio Funding for this program has been provided by Illinois Student Assistance Commission, Community Trust.

CineCity Studios, Lamborghinis Chicago, Gold Coast and Downers Grove.

Commonwealth Edison Broadway Chicago and Illinois Health Plan get covered.

N'digo Studio Welcome.

Welcome to the living room, N'digo Studio.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

So my question is where are we in the political world that we live in now?

The politics of now.

What do you think we are doing?

Where are we?

Good place, bad place.

Change in place.

Where are we?

I think we're at least I don't know.

I say we, as in the collective, you know, Chicago in, citizen.

Taxpayer, are just in an ambiguous kind of, you know, not limbo, but, like, we don't necessarily know, you know, the ebbs and flows where what's the next thing is going to jump out and do you know, the jump scare?

So I think just because and again, we're in uncharted territory at the moment.

So I want to say that's where I'm at at the moment.

I don't know if I'm speaking for all of Chicagoans.

I know, but because you don't know what to about church, I do this or should I do that?

And then something happens, and should I?

You dance?

What do you think?

I think.

It's this.

I mean, for many of us, this a state of chaos right now.

In our neighborhoods with ice and homeland security, especially for black and brown people.

But we're seeing that this impacts everyone.

Recently, the Homeland security people went into this daycare up on the North side, right.

And, and went into the daycare to, to, apprehend this woman and a teacher and a teacher.

And so they're, they're they're seeing these up the this up where the, the the, the cardinal was getting involved.

The the, clergy community is, is is getting involved.

So this is impacting the whole city.

This chaos that started in January from a national.

So before we got started on camera, you were telling me about something that happened in front of the beam with the, homeland Security.

Yeah.

Block Club Chicago, where formerly worked, which just done a great job of covering, ice and the developments here.

So Colin Boyle, their photographer, was out there at, like, 6:00 in the morning.

They came out and were posing for pictures in front of the beam and, shouting out things like, you know, little village like, there in this conquering, state of mind.

When, when, Bovino, who is leading the charge in the city, noticed that there was a, journalist there.

He told his people to mask up, so they put their mask on.

And it just shows, you know, how, you know, thuggish, they have been here is terrible.

The only good news is, we recently heard you guys reported.

The Tribune reported that hopefully they're leaving soon, that they're saying, what?

Here you are.

This is this is the thing that that really kind of I look at.

You're in from front of the beam.

Yeah.

Grant Park, middle of Chicago shout little village.

Yeah.

Like.

And then you put that on social media.

Yeah.

And it's like you have cleaned up Little Village and you're not even there.

And a non Chicagoans may not know that.

Yeah.

That's you know the the the switcheroo, the change, the adjustment, the manipulation of the media.

I think it's this whole thing of this intimidation is what they're trying to do.

There intimidate People.

- Scared - Scare tactics, fear factors yeah pushes fear where people are in some of these communities scared to go to work, scared to go out to get their groceries.

The good thing about it, I think, if there's a silver lining, is how these communities are coming together with the whistles.

They're they're you know, we're Chicago.

We're not scared.

We're reacting.

We're responding to coordinated efforts.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I feel like we're already, you know, I can't tell you how many people come to Chicago and they just, like, I love this city.

There's something about.

It's a it's a small village, but it's a big city.

Yeah.

Because everybody knows everybody.

And we like to think everybody watches over everybody.

But this is like, you know, if we thought we were together and coordinated with after, you know, George Floyd's, murder, then this for sure is rallying the troops and, hopefully strengthening, the community ties.

So it's a thicker, fabric.

We're media people, and I want to talk about how the media has changed, how it has responded, to the Trump administration.

Just recently, BBC, some of the top executives resigned because Trump did not like the edit that they did, that they were doing for documentary.

Same thing.

This is a repeat of what happened with ABC.

He didn't like the edit.

And I'm like, how is he seeing these edits and editing as a part of television is as natural as breathing.

I mean, you've got to edit everything doesn't go ins and is a time factor, blah, blah, blah.

What are you feeling about the media right now?

Same thing.

It's just I think this intimidation tactic, I don't know if people think that, you know, this being, you know, still this is still the first year in this term.

So there's this like I don't know how long, you know, we can fight this.

I will say I kind of really expecting more pushback, more maybe if one the first, it always kind of depends on the first person making the first move.

Like if it says like you can't go across this line and then they do all they can't and they might be like, I don't know, I don't know people's pockets, but they might have to go or, you know, be sued and go on to litigation for the next four years.

But if you if that stance is held, then I feel like the subsequent other suits and other people but ABC, CBS, NBC, they followed exactly then.

But now it's just I feel like everybody's like, well, I just don't know or what the retaliation might be.

So I guess I didn't really expect the media, since I've been in this for so long, to be so, nervous.

I kind of expected.

More and comply.

With and comply.

ABC was, they gave Trump $20 million, and then George Novelis had to pay out of his pocket $1 million.

But these companies had their businesses on the line.

I mean, yes, we are reporters and yes, it is the media, but these are also big businesses.

And the transactions that they were trying to do were going to be halted or going to be stopped completely if they didn't comply.

So it's kind.

Of CBS as well, has lied with what they did with cobia, and that has a bled over into the news of the whole 60 minutes.

Then, you know, Trump came after them too, because he's an autocrat.

That's what they to point.

That's what they do.

I think, though, locally I've been proud of the not only the coverage from the local press, but also, several of the media, I believe the Tribune, too, and also the, the, the the headline club, which is this the, SP Chicago.

Chapter.

Chapter of SPG has gone to court to stop them from, harassing and, targeting journalists along with protesters.

So they have stood up, to this and, and I think the, the journalists have been out there covering, covering what the, what Homeland Security and Ice has been doing.

So I think they've done a good job, I think too.

So new politics we have seen in our city the, the, the resignations of I'm not going to run.

We've seen, Durbin he's not running again.

Congressman Garcia not running again.

We've seen Bobby Rush.

He has retired, and we're seeing Danny Davis.

So we're seeing new.

What do you think about the new generation of politics versus the old guard?

I think it's a good thing, frankly, that, people, it's forcing people to to step up.

So so we have, you know, you know, and, and all these races are going to be competitive too.

So it's not going to be, for the most part, anyone stepping into office.

I mean, it's some of the races recently, but.

It's not enough to step into office.

No, no it's not.

It's got to run for in most cases not not not guaranteed.

So I think it's a good thing.

You know, we look at things us I say we as you know, I'm going to say people over 50 or so who came up a certain way and it's time to listen to other voices and, new voice, other people take charge.

We want we are always saying we want younger people to be responsible.

And that's what I think.

We we see what's happening, not only here, but you talked earlier about New York.

Yeah, we got to talk about New York.

What do you think?

A new generation coming forward?

I'm excited about it.

And like you say, I mean, mentorship should be, you know, the proteges passing and passing the baton.

So we do need new blood.

But the question is, does the new blood have kind of a semblance of like, instead of, like, throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Maybe we should just be all like, instead of maybe doing a 360.

Maybe I just do a 180 at the moment, get my bearings, and then go, you know, I'm.

I'm a little nervous.

Yeah, yeah.

There you go.

For the reasons that you express for a new generation to come in and Congress runs on seniority.

That is how it really, really, really works.

What about New York is that the New Democratic Party?

Is that the New.

Democrat, I think, is a part of it.

I mean, it's definitely a part of it.

And we're talking about the new mayor.

Yeah, that was elected mayor.

Mom done.

Mayor London and 2 million votes.

Yes.

I they voted.

Yeah.

That's the good news.

They voted.

I think people were just fed up.

I mean, it's been reported that affordability was an issue, but I also think that, they were it was also like local politics from the different bureaus of New York.

And people were standing up.

They didn't want more the same.

They weren't ready to do, Cuomo repeat.

And they, they, they, they, they spoke up.

And they ousted Eric Adams.

Yes.

What I thought was, yeah, I thought he was on top of the world for a while.

He was right for.

A minute, but not so much recently in their mind.

And I think him, you know, taking this, allowing Trump to, use him the way he did, I think was terrible.

And I think.

People talked about Eric Adams.

Yeah, I think people reacted to that negatively.

In some of the early interviews after Trump, came into office and was going to, you know, free Adams from the, from the corruption, corruption charges he was under.

And Adams would just sit there with these Trump officials, you know, just.

Yeah.

And, I think that yet.

Reduced.

Him.

Yeah.

Made a lot of people.

What's amazing is, Madani lived in a one bedroom.

Yeah.

No political experience, I mean, limited, I'm going to say no, but I mean very young, limited political experience.

No great following.

But he had such a strong message.

Affordability.

And he walked the streets.

Yeah, I was going.

To say that was amazing.

And he built a real following, a real movement.

From that, you think we'll see more of that?

I think that's the for shifting toward that goal.

Yes, because it's also getting back to the media aspect of this.

Right.

It's how many times do we hear that readers don't trust us or they're, you know, because, again, it shouldn't take, like you say, Trump saying, you know, fake news.

The like derail like the fourth estate as much, you know, as it has or, you know, little, you know, the strategy to weaken it in some way.

But, I feel like walking the streets, like you said, in like really people see what you're standing for and what you're talking with.

They, I feel like they can connect with you as a human being, and they can relate to that.

And that's what people vote for.

That's what people attach to.

But too, too often, right.

Like, we are born or we follow either our mom and dad's kind of like voting or whatever.

Tradition.

Yeah, tradition.

And then you don't really get to the heart of it.

And so at this point, if you need to disrupt, like you said, you need to like, disrupt but connect to this, you know, human being.

And it's the same way I feel like with media like you connect with the reporter because you follow them and you understand them and like, maybe what they're, what they're fighting for or going for writing about.

So it's this distrust in this humanity that the connection.

I think that's the shift that we're kind of see.

One of the things I read, and it really impressed me, and then I became, I really started following him is they were asking him, you know, kind of like, well, what's your secret to success and what are you doing?

What do you think you're doing right, that no one else is doing?

And his his answer was, oh, I went to the black press.

Yeah.

Did you see that?

And he says, I went to the black church.

He had developed a real strong black following.

I thought that was so bodacious and so interesting.

But, I mean, he was scared of nothing and that he was fearless.

Yeah.

And I thought that was.

Well, he's very nice.

He had to do that because of, I think he the, the, the word on the street.

And I don't know how accurate this was, but that, you know, the black voters were loyal to Adam, so he had to go on and win their support.

And he did that not only with the black community, but other communities.

He took community by community by community.

And he was even on the street walking with the peddlers.

Yeah.

And saying so what's your small business like and what should you do?

And but I mean, he really walked amongst the people.

He connects.

People.

Yeah.

I mean we've seen that Harold Washington, he did the same thing.

We've seen that there's no shortcuts.

And I think, we've been living in a world where, you know, these long term politicians, right?

It's their career.

Instead of just being of service, making an impact, getting out, making moves for the next person to come in and and disrupt the system, make a change.

I think this is what needs to happen.

Well, one of the things I think that that gives me hope and, you know, you mentioned people like Danny Davis and Chuy Garcia and well, back in the 80s, they were the one starting out and walk some.

Yeah.

And so they were doing that and they were responsible for, you know, Mayor Washington getting control.

They were part of that coalition that helped him get control of City Council, and which, you know, I don't think the, the mayor, the, the, the best mayor we've ever had.

Mayor Washington gets enough credit for changing how, you know, Chicago works in many ways.

I mean, we still got a long ways to go.

But as far as neighborhoods and communities, you know, many of us remember, you know, like our our alleys getting paved for the first time and things like that.

Well, it was Danny Davis and Chuy Garcia were part of that movement.

How do you think social media has played a part, in politics?

Because now you have traditional media as we are.

But you've got to pay attention to social media because that is where another whole message comes into being.

Trump is true.

And it's it's amazing to me how when something every day they're showing Trump's social media on major news, this is how he is making announcements as opposed to holding press conferences.

This is transformational.

What do you think about that?

Not only for the president of the United States, but what about the candidates, because they can have totally different campaigns than the traditional campaign?

The television ad.

I think I feel like the look on ourselves face is, I it she.

Responded.

Yeah.

She she made it look at that side.

And I was like, you.

Know, well, I want to say again, you can't avoid something because you don't understand it.

And I feel like for whatever reason and Chuck might be again, is the exception or maybe has a fantastic social media team and he is just like the cherry on the Sunday, but you it you just have to go with that trend and really, study it, learn it, you know, can't just say like, I'll just, you know, hire somebody.

And like, when I think about it, put it out there.

Now that should be like the first way to go.

Now, I hate the fact that, you know, like you say, that should not be how you're making announcements.

That should not be how you're doing any kind of press conference.

But again, you see how he treats the media anyway.

So it's, I feel like if this is the only avenue in which we can come back or, like, make sure we're at the front and talking about this, then you definitely need to be on your game.

And like, that's, you know, just like, again, technology should be first, digital first.

I mean, we had, you know, the traditional, journalist.

Right?

We had to learn.

That if you could change one thi in our coverage, what would that one thing be?

We'll.

Media literacy.

That'd be like, the first thing I would think we would, like, get media literacy in as soon as humanly possible.

I mean, the babies, like in the schools in the schools, like fourth or fifth grade, because now, I mean, I was just hanging out with my niece, who's ten, and she's basically saying like, oh, well, you know, it's on the internet and must be true.

And I'm just like, no, there's like, you know, let me talk about primary sources.

Let's talk about this for a second.

And then, you know, at ten, like if it's not like a video game or like something to that effect, it's like, going to sleep.

I think we're moving in this direction, but I think we need to continue to do a better job of what we were talking about, what we were expecting of politicians like mom to get out, get to the primary source of people to.

So actually getting out into the neighborhoods more and more and more.

And I think we're starting to do more of that.

With, I think Block Club is doing that where they actually are centering themselves.

And I, you know, I think that's locally the Sun-Times and Tribune are doing more of that as well.

It reminds me of how shocked people were when, when Washington won and someone said, because you weren't out there in the neighborhoods talking to people.

Thank you, thank you then.

Yeah, yeah.

The way I see it now is there's no little media.

There might be somebody in their bedroom, there might be somebody in their in their basement, and they are writing and they're doing in the Herald Washington thing is a good case because mainstream media, white media was stunned and shocked.

How did this happen?

When did this happen?

What happened when Herrell won, but on the other side of town that nobody was covering, nobody was paying attention.

We all knew, yeah.

That Harrell, predictably, would probably win because it was such a united front.

I think that happened in New York, this town.

Yeah, I think that happened.

Yeah, Madame.

It was, it wasn't.

It wasn't corporate.

Yeah.

That was looking and determining and they were turning off.

But the people it's still we the people.

The people speak.

The people run it.

Yeah.

If, again, more people kind of come to the forefront and, and want to disrupt the situation doesn't mean this election.

I felt like that was the shift, that was what was going on in different states.

But I would just also like more resources and just more, trust in the fact that, again, traditional in journalism, even small outfits, are here to be of service.

We don't not the economy.

That's the main point.

And just in trust in that.

There's still, unfortunately, a lot of, mess out there that that that is not accurate or doesn't reflect what's going on.

And frankly, that that's what Trump is, is, is living off that mask.

Right?

He has absolutely mastered it, whether we like it or not.

He has absolutely turned it upside down.

You know.

Just recently he saw us say, you know, prices are down, prices.

And, you know, they let him say this over and over again.

A lot of people were upset about the recent 60 minutes interview because they have kind of stopped fact checking him.

And, you know, remember not too long ago when, you know, fact checking in real time was becoming a deal.

And I think we've backed away from that.

So these, Trump and his, his, his people are just saying anything again.

And we're letting it go.

But what what I keep waiting for is a reporter to say, Trump.

That's wrong.

Yeah.

You know, that's wrong.

I went to the store yesterday and eggs are not down and gas is not down.

And this is not down.

I think some of the reporters are very have become very docile.

I don't know if they're intimidated.

If they're scared, I'll lose my job if I say this.

But a real reporter.

Yeah.

I mean, could you see Trump talking to Walter Cronkite?

Right.

You seen Trump talking to Dan Rather, like, what the hell are you talking about?

I'm waiting for that kind of reporter to come to come through forcefully and very honestly at the end.

Because Trump's insulting, right?

That's a dumb question.

Why would you ask me that dumb question?

And I'm waiting for a report to say, well, why don't you give me a dumb answers and just say.

Yeah, what you say, little makers of it.

Should be in the white House press corps.

Right?

Yeah.

Well, you know someone who would do that, and she, you know, paid the price for it, for getting that.

But she stood up, was, Yamiche Alcindor, who had put up, you know, she put up a lot of stuff with him, but she, she kept jammed.

Yeah, yeah.

Curtis Lawrence, thank you very much for talking to us today about, journalism and politics in our world.

And Darcel Tribune, thank you very much for being with us.

And we watch the World Turns.

We make history every single day and every article that we write.

We're given a perspective on it as to how they'll look back at it and how it reflects on our world that we live in.

Thank you for making sure that the story gets told.

Absolutely.

Thank you for keeping the narrative strong.

Of what it's about.

Thank you.

Well, we've had a couple of write headlines in our day.

Well, you said we saw Barack covered in Tribune with like, what are you talking about?

Okay, I got it right.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you for being with us.

Another wonderful episode of Indigo Studio.

Thank you.

For more information on this program, follow us on social media.

Funding for this program has been provided by Illinois Student Assistance Commission.

Community trust.

CineCity Studios.

Lamborghini Chicago Gold Coast and Downers Grove.

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