>>> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HIGHWAYS ARE HORIZON THE JOURNALISTS ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>>> Good evening and welcome to "Arizona horizon" I'm Ted Simons.

It's Friday and that means it's time for another edition of the journalists' ROUNDTABLE.

Joining us tonight Howie Fischer of capitol media services.

Laurie Roberts of the Arizona republic and azcentral.com.

and Ronald Hansen of the Arizona republic Azcentral.com.

WHAT WAS ARIZONA'S PLACE AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION.

>> WELL, IT'S SORT OF FUNNY BECAUSE EVERYONE NIG -- FIGURED THIS IS A SWING STATE WE WERE PARKED IN THE BACK WITH NORTH DAKOTA WHICH IS REALLY INTERESTING IF YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE NICE.

THEY GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION.

MAYBE ARIZONA STARTED THAT LITTLE THING ABOUT PUTTING BANDAGES ON YOUR EAR IN SYMPATHY.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU HAD KARI LAKE ON THE PODIUM WE'LL TALK ABOUT HER.

WHAT'S ALSO INTERESTING IS WHO WASN'T THERE FROM ARIZONA IN TERMS OF SOME OF THE MODERATES IN THE PARTY.

WHAT YOU HAD WAS LET'S SEE WE HAVE IN GUIDED FAKE ELECTORS AND WE HAVE STATE LAWMAKER WHO OR FORMER LAWMAKER WHO WAS EJECTED FROM THE HOUSE, BASICALLY, TYPICAL ARIZONA.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY WELL REPRESENTED HERE.

WE DID HAVE SHELBY BUSH, LIZ HARRIS, TALK TO US ABOUT WHO SHELBY BUSH AND LIZ HARRIS IS.

>> SHELBY BUSH I THINK WAS THE CHAIRMAN SHE'S THE PERSON WHO ANNOUNCED ARIZONA'S DELEGATE VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

SHE IS THE, WE THE PEOPLE ALLIANCE FOUNDER WHO ALSO IS AN OFFICER IN MARICOPA COUNTY REPUBLICAN COMMITTEE.

BEST KNOWN PERHAPS THOUGH FOR HER STATEMENT AT A REPUBLICAN EVENT NOT TOO LONG AGO, I THINK IN MARCH THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO LYNCH STEPHEN LYNCH MARICOPA COUNTY RECORDER WHO IS RUNNING IN THE PRIMARY AGAINST TWO REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER.

THE IMPLICATION BECAUSE HE'S NOT A GOOD CHRISTIAN MAN, BECAUSE HE'S JEWISH, I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S REALLY BECAUSE OF THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO SPRING HIM UP OR HANG HIM BECAUSE -- STRING HIM UP AND HANG HIM.

OR IF BECAUSE SHE'S THE REPORTEDDER.

>> PLEASE TELL ME IT'S NOT BECAUSE HE'S JEWISH?

THAT SHE'S GOING TO LYNCH HIM.

I DO NOT KNOW.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW.

YEAH, THEN YOU ALSO FORGOT THE ALLEGED SPEEDER WHO STORY BROKE TODAY THAT SHE'S BEEN ACCUSED OF GOING 71 IN A 35 MILES PER HOUR ZONE.

INTRODUCED HERSELF TO THE POLICE OFFICER AS SENATOR JUSTINE AND DIDN'T OBJECTED WHEN HE CALLED HER MRS. CLEARLY TRYING TO AVOID A TICKET.

APPARENTLY SHE'S NOT GOING TO.

>> WE HAD A COUPLE FOLKS SPEAKING AS HOWIE MENTIONED SOME FOLKS THAT WEREN'T THERE INCLUDING CANDIDATES AND SOME PRETTY CLOSE RACES.

DOUG DUCEY THERE WAS ON THE CANDIDACY YOU FIGURE HE WOULD BE AT SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

DOES IT NOT SURPRISE YOU?

>> NO NO I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THERE IS JUST A DEEP DIVIDE WITHIN REPUBLICAN CIRCLES IN THIS STATE IF NOT NATIONALLY, THAT DOUG DUCEY, AND SOME OF THESE OTHER MORE MODERATE IN STYLE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT ON BOARD WITH THE TRUMPCENTRIC AMERICA FIRST SORT OF MESSAGE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THEY ARE BOTH IN TOUGH RACES.

SO I THINK THEY HAVE TO FOR TACTICAL REASONS MAINTAIN AT LEAST SOME DISTANCE AT THE MOMENT FOR GOVERNOR DUCEY.

I THINK IT'S SORT OF A MINIATURE OF WHAT WE SAW WITH FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH NOT PRESENT.

>> AS FAR AS ARIZONANS AND THE IDEA OF THE DIVIDE, AS YOU TALKED ABOUT WHICH IS IT'S CLEARLY MAGA AND TRUMP THIS IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NOW.

IF YOU'RE NOT ON BOARD YOU'RE AT THE STATION.

HOW IS THAT AFFECTING THINGS HERE IN ARIZONA?

>> YOU KNOW IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IN NOVEMBER HOW THIS REALLY PLAYS OUT HOW CLOSE THIS STATE ULTIMATELY WILL BE.

IT'S BEEN PRETTY SAFE FOR A WHILE TO -- COULD FACE A REAL TOUGH TIME IN A SOUTHERN ARIZONA ENVIRONMENT WHERE KIRSTEN ANGLING WAS VERY COMPETITIVE IN 2022 WITH NO RESOURCES FROM NATIONAL DEMOCRATS.

SHE CONTINUES TO OUTRAISE HIM.

THAT'S A TOUGH RACE.

IT JUST IS BY ITS NATURE HOWIE KNOWS ALL ABOUT THAT AREA.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT DAVID I THINK THERE'S A SENSE THAT HIS NORTH CENTRAL PHOENIX DISTRICT CONTINUES TO BE THE KIND OF DISTRICT THAT IS JUST PEELING AWAY FROM TRADITIONAL REPUBLICANS.

>> THE PARTY TENDS TO EAT ITS OWN.

LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING, FOR EXAMPLE, KAREN TAYLOR WHO RAN UNSUCCESSFUL TO KARI LAKE FOR GOVERNOR, HAS BEEN MAKING SOME NOISE PUTTING SOME STUFF UP ON THE SOCIAL MEDIA AND ALL THAT COMES BACK IS WELL, SHE'S, SHE'S A McCAIN, SHE'S A DUCEY REPUBLICAN AS IF WAIT A SECOND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR DOUG DUCEY A LOT OF PEOPLE CREDIT THE STATE'S FINANCIAL CONDITION TO DOUG DUCEY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO LIKE JOHN McCAIN REGARDLESS OF SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF HE DID.

THEY WOULD MUCH RATHER CRITICIZE ANYBODY WHO MIGHT SOME OF.

>> WELL, THAT'S THE KARI LAKE MODEL.

>> WELL, THE MODEL BRAIN TRUST, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN CHARGE HAVE NOT YET GOTTEN THE MESSAGE FROM VOTERS THAT WE DON'T LIKE THAT.

A LOT OF US ARE McCAIN VOTERS, A LOT OF US LIKE DOUG DUCEY.

A LOT OF INDEPENDENTS WHO HAVE TRADITIONALLY AWARDED REPUBLICANS MODERATE MORE MODERATE I SHOULD SAY THEY'RE NOT REALLY MODERATE BUT ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS WITH OFFICE HAVE STARTED USHERING DEMOCRATS INTO THE JOBS.

IT'S WHY WE HAVE A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR AND THE SECRETARY OF STATE, AND AN ATTORNEY GENERAL AND TWO SENATORS.

IT'S LIKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS TO EVERY TWO YEARS BE KICKED TO FIGURE OUT YOU GOT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND THEY HAVE NOT FIGURED IT OUT.

>> IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE KARI LAKE FIGURED IT OUT AS FAR AS HER SPEECH IS CONCERNED SUPPOSED TO BE UNIFYING BUT THAT'S NOT A UNIFYING SPEECH.

>> NO, THIS HAD A LOT OF THE SAME LINES AND SAME THEMES IT TO THAT WE'VE HEARD ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL FOR HER FOR MONTHS NOW.

THERE WERE REALLY NO SOCKS TO DEMOCRATS OR NATIONAL UNITY.

NO OVERARCHING IDEAS THAT REALLY EXPANDED AN OLIVE BRANCH EVERYONE TO ELSE.

I WILL SAY IN FAIRNESS TO KARI LAKE THERE WASN'T A LOT OF THAT ANYWHERE IN THE CONVENTION TO BE REALLY HONEST.

I THINK FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP STARTED IN THAT DIRECTION IN HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEECH BUT KIND OF ABANDONED THAT FAIRLY EARLY ON AND LEFT IT THERE.

>> CAN YOU, CAN YOU BE THAT UNIFIER, THOUGH, IF IT MEANS EMBRACING THINGS THAT SO MUCH MAGA THINKS IS DOWNRIGHT EVIL?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE CHALLENGE OF THE MOMENT.

THAT ONE OF THE DEFINING CHARACTERISTICS IT SEEMS OF THIS WHOLE AMERICA FIRST MOVEMENT IS THEY ARE REALLY JUDGING WHO EVEN IS IN AMERICA AND WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE A VIEW ON PUBLIC POLICY OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

IT'S A VERY MUCH SORT OF TOW THE LINE OR GET OUT OF LINE APPROACH THAT HAS BEEN MARKING THIS PARTY AND THIS MOVEMENT FOR YEARS NOW.

>> YES YET I HAVE TO NOTE IF YOU LOOK AT THE REPUBLICAN PLATFORM NOWHERE IN THERE WILL YOU FIND TALK OF NATIONAL ABORTION BAN.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS BEDROCK REPUBLICAN AND THEY EJECTED THAT QUICKLY.

>> THEY EJECTED IT BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T WANT THAT IN.

>> RIGHT.

IF THIS IS ONE OF YOUR BEDROCK IDEALS IT KIND OF GOES BACK TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING WHAT IS IT THAT YOU REALLY STAND FOR IF YOU ARE WILLING TO THROW IT OUT SO CAVALIERLY?

>> .

>> THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE EVEN WITHIN MAGA YOU HAVE THESE DIFFERENCES YOU KNOW WE SEE PEOPLE LIKE ALEXANDER WHO IS A STATE REPRESENTATIVE YOU KNOW BEING VERY CRITICAL OF THE PARTY.

HE WAS ONE OF THOSE WHO TALKED ABOUT WHY AREN'T WE PROTECTING UNBORN HUMANS AND ALL THE REST OF THAT.

KATHY HAR ROD FROM THE CENTRAL ARIZONA POLICY WAS SAYING GREAT CONVENTION BUT WHY AREN'T THEY TALKING ABOUT ABORTION.

AND SO, MAGA IS TRYING TO FIND A SPOT PART OF WHAT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING AS WE TALK ABOUT WHAT MESSAGE WILL BE SENT IN NOVEMBER, HERE WE ARE SITTING HERE ON A FRIDAY NIGHT WE DON'T KNOW WHO'S HEADING THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET AND GIVEN EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S GOING ON IF DONALD TRUMP WINS THE MESSAGE TO MAGA WILL BE WE HAD IT RIGHT.

>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT KARI LAKE'S CONTENTIOUS WEEK AGAIN.

WE HAD THE SPEECH AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION THEN AN INTERVIEW WITH 12 NEWS' THAT DID NOT GO VERY WELL.

>> IT IS AT EVERY LEVEL ATTACK, ATTACK, FAKE NEWS, YOU'RE FAKE, YOU'RE FAKE YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE, YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE.

BUT IF YOU REALLY GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT EVERY TIME A JOURNALIST DOES THEIR JOB AND ASKS HER QUESTIONS AND HOLDS HER ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT SHE DOES AND SAYS SHE TURNS IT AROUND ON THEM.

ATTACKS THEM, AND I THINK HER HOPE IS THAT NO ONE WILL NOTICE THAT SHE NEVER ANSWERS THE HARD QUESTIONS, THE CHALLENGING QUESTIONS LIKE IF YOU WANT TO BE A SENATOR WHY DID YOU JUST APPEAL TO THE STATE SUPREME COURT TO OVERTHROW THE 2022 GOVERNOR'S ELECTION.

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LET IT GO.

ALL SHE DOES IS DEFLECT AND ATTACK.

>> AND SHE DID IT AGAIN WITH THE BBC EVEN MORE.

SO I REALLY DOUBLED DOWN MAYBE TRIPLE DOWN WITH THIS BBC REPORTER.

CALLED IT FAKE NEWS SAID YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT ARIZONA AND SAID WHAT WAS IT YOU'RE JUST A SAD CASE FOR A HUMAN BEING.

WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

>> WELL, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT WE'RE NOT DOING IF YOU'RE KARI LAKE YOU ARE NOT BROADENING YOUR BASE YOU'RE NOT DOING THE THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAT CAUSED YOU TO LOSE IN 2022 THAT COULD HELP YOU WIN IN 2024.

AT THIS POINT MOST PEOPLE IN THIS STATE HAVE AN OPINION OF KARI LAKE THEY REALLY LOVE HER OR THEY DON'T LIKE HER AT ALL.

FRANKLY I'M NOT REALLY SURE AT THIS POINT THAT IT DOES HER ANY GOOD TO DO HER ANYTHING THAN TO JUST SPEAK TO THE CHOIR BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE IS LISTENING.

ARE MODERATES ARE THEY CHARMED BY THIS?

>> THE POLLS CERTAINLY DON'T SUGGEST IT.

SHE HAS BEEN CONSISTENTLY TRAILING I THINK THE POLLING REALLY SORT BECAME MORE MEANINGFUL AFTER SENATOR KIRSTEN SENATOR SAID SHE WOULD NOT SEEK A SECOND TERM IN THAT TIME WE HAVE SEEN A PRETTY UNBROKEN LINE OF POLLING THAT IS PUBLIC FACING THAT SHOWS RUBEN LEADING IN THAT RACE FOR THE DEMOCRATS AND HER FUND-RAISING HAS BEEN MEDIOCRE TO BE CHARITABLE.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OF THE INVESTMENT FROM NATIONAL REPUBLICANS.

THE RESOURCES ARE NOT THERE FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN TREATED AS A NOMINEE IN WAITING FROM THE DAY BEFORE SHE ENTERED THE RACE.

SO, IT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE RESONATING AND WE KNOW THAT BEHIND THE SCENES NATIONAL REPUBLICANS HAVE URGED HER, EVEN BEFORE SHE ENTERED THE RACE TO DROP THE ELECTION DENIALISM, WHICH SHE HASN'T DONE.

THEY HAVE ALSO TRIED TO GET HER TO STAY FOCUSED ON THEIR MORE IMPORTANT THEMES OF INFLATION, BORDER SECURITY, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS SHE HAS MEANDERED ON ALL THESE OTHER DETOURS AND PRINCIPLELY ATTACKED THE MEDIA.

>> SPEAKING OF TRYING HER TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND BIGWIGS BACK EAST SAYING KNOCK IT OFF THAT THAT AND THE:NOW WE'RE HEARING THAT HER OPPONENT IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY IS SAYING SHE TRIED TO DO THE SAME THING.

WHAT'S THIS ALL ABOUT?

>> WELL, AS YOU POINT OUT, YOU KNOW, HER ARGUMENT WAS THAT JEFF DUE IT WITH HAD -- DEWITT SAID LOOK IF YOU DROP OUT WE WILL FIND YOU SOME POSITION SOMEWHERE.

WE WILL GET YOU SOMETHING MAYBE EVEN A JOB IN PRIVATE SECTOR.

OF COURSE, MONTHS LATER SHE SOMEBODY FOUND THIS TAPE AND THAT WAS THE END OF JEFF DEWITT AS CHAIR OF THE PARTY.

NOW YOU HAVE MIC MARK LAM SAYING SPEAKING OF WHICH, SHE SAID TO ME IF YOU DROP OUT I WILL GET YOU A POSITION IN A TRUMP CABINET.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE.

OBVIOUSLY, WE LOVE THE IRONY OF THE WHOLE THING AND THE TURNAROUND BUT FIRST OF ALL SHE WILL EVEN DEBATE LAMM THE POLLING DOESN'T SHOW IT WITH A PROVERBIAL SNOWBALL'S CHANCE IN HELL.

B DOES SHE REALLY HAVE ANY SWAY WITH TRUMP MAYBE SHE WOULD WANT ONE FOR HERSELF IF SHE'S GOING TO LOSE THE SENATE.

AND SEE, WHO, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO TO BELIEVE IN THIS RACE.

LAMM IS OFF IN HIS OWN LITTLE WORLD YOU KNOW WALKING AROUND IN HIS BODY ARMOR AND HIS GUNS AND EVERYTHING ELSE SAYING I AM THE TRUE REPUBLICAN AND KARI IS BUSY GETTING A LOT OF TV COVERAGE.

>> IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER IF SHE WOULD GET HIM A POSITION SHE'S JUST GOING TO SAY IT ANYWAY.

>> SHE HAS MADE SUCH POLITICAL HEY OUT OF THE FACT THAT SHE SECRETLY TAPED JEFF DEWITT TRYING TO SAY WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO GET YOU NOT TO RUN FOR THIS OFFICE I TOOK THAT TO MEAN WE SEE DISASTER ON THE HORIZON WE WANT TO GET A DIFFERENT CANDIDATE WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO GET YOU OFF TO THE SIDE FOR NOW.

YOU CAN COME BACK AND RUN FOR GOVERNOR IN TWO YEARS.

BUT SHE SAYS OH, NO, IT WAS BRIBE AND I STOOD TOUGH I WON'T LET THE CORRUPTION HIT ME, FROM THESE TRUMP PEOPLE.

YET IF LAMM IS TO BE BELIEVED SHE'S RATHER SWAMPISH HERSELF IN DOING THIS.

HIS MISTAKE WAS IN NOT SECRETLY TAPING EVERYBODY THAT HE COMES INTO CONTACT WITH THEN HE CAN PRESENT THE TAPE AS HAPPENED WITH LAKE.

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY ON THAT NOTE, THAT IS ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES THAT WE MAY OR MAY NOT GET ANSWERED SOMETIME LATER THIS YEAR COURTESY OF THE MARICOPA COUNTY RECORDER'S DEFAMATION CASE.

THE EXTENT TO WHICH KARI LAKE MAY HAVE RECORDED A NUMBER OF PEOPLE UP AND DOWN THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

SHE MAY HAVE EVIDENCE OF THIS THAT WOULD BACK UP THE SHERIFF'S CLAIM OR NOT BUT THERE ARE A HOST OF DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

I THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN PRETTY WELL ESTABLISHED IS THAT IN CONSERVATIVE CIRCLES, THERE'S A WARINESS OF HOW MUCH ANYONE CAN REALLY BE CANDID WITH KARI LAKE AFTER ALL THIS.

>> YEAH.

LET'S TALK ABOUT -- LETS TALK ABOUT AND SHIFT GEARS HERE MARK KEL WRITE AND THE IDEA OF MARK KELLY AS POLLING BETTER THAN JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS.

ORIGINALLY WE HEARD HEY, HE COULD POSSIBLY BE A POTENTIAL DEMOCRATIC REPLACEMENT OR CANDIDATE SHOULD THERE BE AN OPEN CONVENTION.

I THINK THE CONVERSATION SHIFT NOW TO MOSTLY VICE PRESIDENT.

IT'S A CONVERSATION WORTH TALKING?

>> IT'S ALWAYS WORTH TALKING ABOUT.

BEING AN ASTRONAUT IS A VERY GOOD THING, IT GETS YOU A LOT OF PUBLICITY.

YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO JOHN GLENN IF YOU WILL FROM OHIO.

I THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HIM.

HE PUTS OUT A LOT OF PRESS RELEASES, USUALLY IN CONJUNCTION WITH KYRSTEN SINEMA WE DID, THIS WE DID THAT, WE DID THAT.

I DON'T KNOW THAT PEOPLE REALLY KNOW WHO HE IS THAT BECOMES A REALLY WHY NOT HE'S AN ASTRONAUT, HE'S MARRIED TO GABBY GIFFORDS WE KNOW ALL BETTER HAD.

WE KNOW THAT HE'S -- WE NOWL ALL ABOUT HER.

EVEN GAB BY HAS MADE THAT CLEAR HE'S POSITIONED HIMSELF SORT OF LIKE KYRSTEN SINEMA TRIED TO DO AS SOMEBODY WHO CAN WORK WITH BOTH SIDES.

>> BUT HE'S GOT SOMETHING THAT WOULD COUNTER J.D.

VANCE AND THAT IS COMBAT PILOT, THAT'S PRETTY GOOD STORY RIGHT THERE.

ASTRONAUT.

DEVOTED HUSBAND OF A WOMAN WHO WAS SHOT IN THE HEAD IN AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT.

HE CERTAINLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT THAT MEANS AND WHAT THAT'S LIKE TO BE TARGETED FOR YOUR POLITICAL VIEWS OR FOR WHATEVER REASON SHE WAS TARGETED.

I THINK HE'S GOT A GREAT STORY.

HE'S GOT THE RIGHT PLACE THAT HE'S FROM WHICH IS ARIZONA, A BATTLEGROUND STATE.

IN THE END I DON'T THINK HE WOULD DO IT.

I THINK THE SMART THING WOULD TO BE GET SOMEBODY LIKE REPRESENTATIVE WHAT'S HIS NAME?

ADAM -- I THINK SOMEBODY LIKE THAT.

GET A MODERATE REPUBLICAN A NEVER TRUMPER TYPE THAT PEOPLE COULD COALESCE AROUND AND DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN McCAIN WAS TALKING ABOUT DOING THAT WITH.

WHY NOT TRY IT?

>> THERE'S ONLY PROBLEM WITH THE THEORY AND I REALIZE THAT MARK WASN'T BORN HERE.

ARIZONA IS THE ONE PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE NOT TOLD BY THEIR PARENTS YOU CAN GROW UP TO BE PRESIDENT.

BARRY GOLDWATER, BRUCE BABBIT, JOHN McCAIN, AND SO, I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE'S ANYBODY FROM ARIZONA IS EVER GOING TO MAKE IT ANYWHERE NEAR THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> HISTORY LESSON ASIDE, KELLY'S STORY BECAUSE HE'S NOT ALL THAT WELL-KNOWN, COULD THAT BE A GOOD THING IN A WHAT WOULD BE A VERY SHORT POLITICAL SEASON?

>> I'LL ACTUALLY DISAGREE.

I THINK MARK KELLY IS FAIRLY PROMINENT.

HE MAY NOT BE SOMEONE WHO IS A FIXTURE OF SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOWS, HE MAY NOT BE THE PERSON WHO IS JUMPING UP AND DOWN HOLDING PRESSERS EVERY OTHER DAY BUT THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT ELEMENTS OF HIS LIFE STORY THAT HAVE BEEN VERY BROADLY KNOWN AND UNDERSTOOD ON SOME LEVEL WHETHER IT'S THE SHOOTING OF HIS WIFE, WHETHER IT'S AS AN ASTRONAUT, WHETHER IT IS SOMEONE WHO IS YOU KNOW SEEN AS SOMEONE WHO CAN MAKE DEALS AND TRY AND MOVE FORWARD IN THE SENATE.

HE IS NOT SOMEONE WHO IS JUMPING UP AND DOWN CLAMORING FOR ATTENTION.

HE'S SOMEONE WHO CAN PRESENT THE RECORD OF ACHIEVEMENT.

I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT HE MIGHT BRING TO A POSSIBLE DEMOCRATIC TICKET, IF THIS HAPPENS, WHICH I THINK IS STILL UNLIKELY, BUT, IF HE DID, HE PROJECTS STRENGTH.

HE PROJECTS EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE WEAKNESS RIGHT NOW FOR THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET.

EVERYTHING THAT APPEARS TO BE OFF WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN IS REALLY NOT THE CASE FOR MARK KELLY WHO LIKES TO APPEAR IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIALS IN TIGHT BLACK SHIRTS AND RIDE MOTORCYCLES.

>> RON SAYS UNLIKELY.

YOU THINK UNLIKELY AS WELL.

>> EITHER WAY.

I THINK WE'RE FOCUSING ON VICE PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE ONE OF THOSE MENTION ASSUMING WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A TOP OF THE TICKET AND LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO FILL IT OUT.

HAVING SOMEBODY FROM THE SENATE.

A LOT OF THE BEST TICKETS ARE A GOVERNOR AND A SENATOR.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE TWO DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THE WORLD.

SO IF YOU FIND A GOVERNOR A GRETCHEN WHITMER.

>> THAT'S ANOTHER NAME, BY THE WAY.

YOU COULD PUT A MARK KELLY IN THERE AND YOU GET TWO SWING STATES AND TWO PEOPLE WHO HAVE STORIES.

>> WELL, WHAT HAPPENS IF MARK KELLY DOES WIND UP ON THE TICKET.

WE GOT, WE GOT TO GO THROUGH, WE GOT TO GET APPOINTMENT, GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE THING AGAIN?

>> IT'S ONLY AN APPOINTMENT.

REMEMBER THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH MARTHA McSALLY AFTER SHE LOST THE RACE THEN THE GOVERNOR GETS APPOINTED.

FROM THE SAME PARTY.

ESSENTIALLY OUR GOVERNOR KATIE HOBS WOULD FIND SOME DEMOCRAT WHO WOULD BE APPOINTED TO THE SENATE WHO KNOWS MAYBE IF HE LOSES HE MAY GET IN THE SENATE THAT WAY.

>> TO BE CLEAR I DON'T THINK HE HAS -- THIS IS MORE ANALOGOUS TO SENATOR TIM KAINE A FEW YEARS WHEN HILLARY CLINTON NAMED HIM TO THE TICKET HE WOULD JUST KEEP HIS DAY JOB.

>> IT'S NOT LIKE THEY DO ANYTHING IN WASHINGTON IT'S NOT HARD TO BE ABSENT FROM THE SENATE.

>> THE DEMOCRATS ARE ON THEIR HEELS AT THIS POINT.

THEY HAVE BEEN KNOCKED DOWN.

HAD PROBABLY THE WORST THREE WEEKS I HAVE EVER SEEN OF ANY PARTY IN POLITICS.

I THINK THEY SHOULD SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

I THIS IF I SHE WENT WITH A COALITION KIND OF TICKET THAT WOULD ADD AN ENERGY TO THE CAMPAIGN, I KNOW SHE WON'T BUT I THINK SHE SHOULD AT LEAST CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE TRUMP BUT DON'T REALLY LIKE THE DEMOCRATS AND WHAT THEY STAND FOR MIGHT GET ENERGIZED BY THE IDEA OF LET'S REACH ACROSS THE AISLE AND FIND MIDDLE GROUND.

>> LAST QUESTION ON THIS.

USUALLY WE SEE BUMPS AFTER CONVENTIONS ARE WE GOING TO SEE MUCH OF A BUMP AFTER THIS CONVENTION, THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION?

>> I THINK MAYBE A SMALL BUMP BUT REALLY A POLARIZED COUNTRY IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME HOW MUCH OF A BUMP IS REALLY SUSTAINABLE AT THE END ANYWAY.

I THINK BOTH SIDES ARE GOING TO MOSTLY COALESCE AROUND THEIR TICKET FOR DEMOCRATS IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHO THAT TICKET WILL EVEN BE AT THE MOMENT.

BUT I THINK ONCE THERE'S CLARITY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER YOU WILL SEE MOST DEMOCRATS FALL BACK TO WHATEVER THEIR SIDE IS PRESENTING.

I THINK THAT THE REALITY IS ONE OR TWO POINTS IN THIS ENVIRONMENT IS REALLY A LOT ANYWAY.

>> YEAH, DID YOU SEE ANY BUMP AT ALL?

>> NO, I MEAN NOTHING.

EVERYBODY WHO WAS THERE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

YOU KNOW, I'M SORT OF WITH RON.

IF TRUMP HAD JUST SHUT UP AFTER ABOUT 40 MINUTES MAYBE THERE WAS A BUMP TO BE HAD.

HE CAN'T HELP HIMSELF.

SO I THINK WHATEVER BUMP HE WAS GOING TO GET HE WASTED.

>> YEAH, I SAW SOME ANALYSTS SAYING THAT SPEECH WAS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN IN DEMOCRATS IN THE PAST TWO WEEKS.

IT'S OPEN PRIMARIES THE BALLOT MEASURE.

WE HEAR THIS HAPPENS QUITE A BIT.

THEY'RE NOT HAPPEN -- HAPPY WITH THE WORDING WHAT'S GOING ON HERE AS FAR AS TAKING MEASURES.

>> TO A CERTAIN EXTENT THEY'RE NOT HAPPY WITH THE ORDER THAT THINGS WERE PLACED.

THE MEASURE DOES TWO THINGS, THE BIG THING IT DOES IS IT CREATES A WIDE OPEN PRIMARY.

EVERY CANDIDATE FROM EVERY PARTY, INDEPENDENTS ALL RUNNING IN THE SAME PRIMARY, ANYBODY WHO'S A REGISTERED VOTER INDEPENDENT, VEGETARIAN, WHATEVER VOTES IN THE PRIMARY.

THEN YOU CAN WEED OUT AND GET RID OF MAYBE SOME OF THE CRAZIES ON THE OTHER END.

THE CONTROVERSIAL PART IS THE PART THAT THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL PUT FORWARD WAS THAT THIS OPTION OF THIS RANKED CHOICE VOTING AND THAT CONFUSES PEOPLE BECAUSE IT SAYS THAT IF THE LEGISLATURE WERE TO DECIDE OR SECRETARY OF STATE DECIDES WE GO WITH RANK CHOICE VOTING MAYBE YOU TAKE THE TOP THREE, FOUR, OR FIVE OUT OF THE PRIMARY THEN YOU HAVE THE SYSTEM WHERE YOU RANK THE CANDIDATES ONE THROUGH FIVE.

YOU GIVE THEM TO THE NEXT PERSON.

THE CONCERN WAS THEY PUT THAT FIRST WHEN IN FACT THE LEGISLATION THE INITIATIVE SAYS IT IS UP TO THE LEGISLATURE OR THE SECRETARY OF STATE TO HAVE RANK CHOICE VOTING.

>> YOU WOULD THINK WHEN THEY ARE SUMMARIZING A BALLOT INITIATIVE TO PUT IN THE PUBLICITY PAMPHLET WHICH GOES EVERYBODY TO THE FIRST THING YOU WOULD DO IS SAY HERE IS WHAT THIS PROPOSAL IF YOU VOTE YES WOULD REQUIRE.

AND THAT WOULD BE AN OPEN PRIMARY.

BUT IT WILL ALSO ALLOW RANK TRACE VOTING IF THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR DECIDE THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO INSTEAD OF JUST HAVING THE TOP TWO MOVE ON FROM THE PRIMARY HAVE YOU TOP THREE OR TOP FOUR WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO.

BUT THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE LEGISLATURE.

THIS BILL DOESN'T DO THAT.

DOESN'T MANDATE THAT.

IT JUST SIMPLY ALLOWS IT.

YET THEY PUT THAT FIRST IN THE REQUIREMENT TO TRY TO CHASE PEOPLE OFF, MISLEAD VOTERS.

NEITHER PARTY LIKES THIS PROPOSITION.

>> LOOK, THEY CONTROL THE STATE AND REALLY WHO CONTROLS THE STATE IS THE BASE OF THEIR POLITICAL PARTY BECAUSE THEY, RIGHT NOW, NOMINATE IN THE PRIMARY.

ONLY THE MORE IDEOLOGICAL HARD-CORE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT REALLY VOTES IN A PRIMARY.

INDEPENDENTS RARELY VOTE YET THEY'RE A THIRD OF THE STATE.

THIS SIMPLY WILL CHANGE THAT NEITHER PARTY LIKES IT AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE TRYING TO MISLEAD VOTEDDERS.

>> AGAIN IT'S THE 1A1B KIND OF A SITUATION WHERE BACKERS SAY YOU ARE PUTTING B ABOVE A.

>> YEAH, I MEAN I THINK THIS SPEAKS TO THE BROADER ANXIETY THAT A LOT OF ARIZONANS HAVE ABOUT OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS THEY CONVENTION AND WHERE THEY STAND IN THE UNIVERSE OF ORDERLY REPUBLICAN DELEGATIONS AND SUCH WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT KYRSTEN SINEMA AND HER EFFORT TO TRY AND BE ON THE BALLOT AND COMPETE IN A STATE WITH SO MANY INDEPENDENT VOTERS THERE'S A SENSE THAT THERE'S A RUSH TO THE CORNERS IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

ANY OF THE REFORM EFFORTS THAT ARE INTENDED TO TAKE SOME OF THOSE SHARP CORNERS OFF THAT WHO ARE DOOMED TO FAIL BECAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL RESISTANCE IT TO.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION TO IT THE PHRASE RANK CHOICE VOTING DO MOST VOTERS CARE ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR CARE.

>> I DON'T THINK MOST VOTERS EVEN KNOW WHAT IT MEANS.

>> IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S STILL SORT OF NOT WELL UNDERSTOOD.

IT'S NOT ON THE TABLE HERE IN ARIZONA ANYWAY AND I THINK IT'S ALMOST A CODE FOR SAYING THAT WE'RE GOING TO TRY SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THOSE CRAZY LEFTIES WANT TO DO AND THAT FOR ARIZONA IT'S JUST STEP AWAY FROM THAT.

>> THAT'S THE POINT.

HISTORY HAS SHOWN US IN ARIZONA WHEN PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED BY A BALLOT MEASURE THEY VOTE NO.

THE COUNTERARGUMENT THAT'S PRESENTED BY THE MAKE ELECTIONS FAIR COMMITTEE IS OK, EVEN ASSUMING YOU DON'T KNOW THIS IT CAN'T BE ANY WORSE THAN WHAT WE'VE GOT NOW WITH THE DIVISION AT THE LEGISLATURE.

>> YOU HAVE TO MENTION HERE THAT THE LEGISLATURE ITSELF HAS PUT ONTO THE BALLOT THIS YEAR A PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL NOT IN AN INFANT THAT JUST TELLS WHAT YOU THE MOTIVATIONS ARE HERE.

WE'RE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME.

WE ARE JUST ABOUT 45 SECONDS NOW.

MICHAEL GRANT PASSED AWAY THIS WEEK I KNOW YOU WORKED WITH HIM FOR MANY YEARS HERE IN ARIZONA.

>> I MET MICHAEL IN 1982, SHORTLY AFTER HE STARTED THE SHOW.

YOU DID A GREAT PIERCE EARLIER THIS WEEK ABOUT THE GENESIS OF THAT IN TERMS OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT CONFIRMATION OF SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR.

HE WAS ONE OF THE MOST NICE AND HUMBLE PEOPLE YOU WOULD EVER WANT TO MEET.

HE WAS ALWAYS AWAY DOING THE FRIDAY SHOW IT'S A NICE DISCUSSION.

IT DIDN'T AGAIN GRATE INTO THE OH, -- DIDN'T DENIGRATE INTO THIS OH, YEAH, KIND OF THING.

SOMETIMES I REMEMBER HIM SAYING, FOR EXAMPLE, DON'T VOTE IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THEM.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE REMEMBERED MICHAEL GRANT AS WE HAVE ALL WEEK.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE PANEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW I'M TED SIMON.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.