>> Ted: NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, IT'S THE JOURNALIST'S ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING ENSHRINING ABORTION RIGHTS.

THIS IS NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

>> Announcer: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION.

THANK YOU.

>> Ted: WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALIST'S ROUNDTABLE AND JOINING US IS JIM SMALL OF THE ARIZONA MIRROR, JEREMY DUDA OF AXIOS PHOENIX AND WE'LL START WITH THE LAUNCH OF THE ABORTION RIGHT'S INITIATIVE AND THE ACCESS ACT.

>> THIS FOLLOWS LAST YEAR IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF THE DOBBS' DECISION AT THE SUPREME COURT, A DECISION TO GET SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT THAT WOULD BE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WAS SOME CONSTERNATION OF THE LANGUAGE AND WHAT THE AMENDMENT WOULD ACTUALLY SAY.

IT DIDN'T GET ON THE BALLOT, SO THERE WAS THINKING, LET'S TRY IT AGAIN NEXT YEAR.

THEY HAVE LESS THAN A YEAR TO COLLECT A LOT OF SIGNATURES TO REFER THIS, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SUPPORTERS HAVE TALKED ABOUT IS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RAISE.

THEY'RE TALKING LIKE 40 MILLION OR $50 MILLION TO COLLECT SIGNATURES AND RUN THE CAMPAIGN THEY WANT TO RUN.

THAT'S BIG-TIME MONEY.

>> Ted: A LOT OF SIGNATURES, 384 SOME ODD THOUSAND BY EARLY JULY OF NEXT YEAR.

THAT'S A BIG HAUL.

CAN THEY DO IT?

>> WITH 40 OR 50 MILLION, THEY CERTAINLY CAN.

THEY WON'T HAVE THAT MUCH TROUBLE GETTING THE MONEY THEY NEED.

THEY'VE BEEN PLANNING THIS A LONG TIME.

THESE ARE MAJOR ORGANIZATIONS AND A LOT OF MONEY COMING IN FROM NATIONALLY, AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL AND THIS IS -- YOU'RE SEEING THIS IN A LOT OF OTHER STATES, AS WELL, DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO PUT THE ABORTION ISSUE ON THE BALLOT AND THIS IS TO ENSHRINE THE RIGHTS WITH THE DOBB'S DECISION AND A MAJOR TURNOUT DRIVER IN THE SWING STATES LIKE ARIZONA, ESPECIALLY, TO BRING YOUNG VOTERS AND DEMOCRATIC VOTERS TO THE POLLS.

THEY WON'T HAVE ANY TROUBLE GETTING THE MONEY THEY NEED.

>> Ted: THE WORDING, JIM, WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM WITH THE WORDING BEFORE AND WHY IS IT OK NOW?

>> I THINK, YOU KNOW, LAST TIME -- THINGS HAVE CHANGED AND CHANGES TO THE RULES TO WHAT IS ALLOWED TO GO ON THE BALLOT AND STRUCTURED.

THEY HAD KIND OF A LEGAL MAZE TO WALK THROUGH THIS YEAR IN ORDER TO STRUCTURE THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO MAKE SURE IT DIDN'T VIOLATE THE SINGLE SUBJECT RULES AND GET TOSSED OFF THE BALLOT.

AND SO, THEY'VE SPENT THE LAST EIGHT, NINE MONTHS WORKSHOPPING THIS TO FIND OUT HOW THEY WANT TO BUILD IT AND WHAT RIGHTS THEY WANT IN THERE AND HOW DO THEY WANT TO, BASICALLY, COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT ENSHRINES THE RIGHTS THAT THEY THINK SHOULD BE IN THE CONSTITUTION, AS WELL AS TO PRESENT TO VOTERS AND PALATABLE TO VOTERS.

WHAT THEY WOUND UP IS THIS IDEA THAT ARIZONANS HAVE A RIGHT TO ACCESS ABORTION, BASICALLY, WHICH CURRENTLY IS THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT ABOUT 23 OR 24 WEEKS OF GESTATION AND LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES FOR ABORTIONS AFTER THAT POINT.

ALTHOUGH, CERTAINLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATS IN ARIZONA, VERY, VERY FEW.

THERE HAVE BEEN EXCEPTIONS FOR THE CURRENT STANDARD AND NONE OF THEM THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

>> Ted: CRITICS SAY IT'S INTENTIONALLY VAGUE HERE REGARDING THIS VIABLE ISSUE.

ABILITY ISSUE.

>> IF A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER DETERMINES IT'S NEEDED LATER, THEN THEY CAN PROVIDE THE ABORTION LATER ON AND THAT'S SOMETHING GROUPS LIKE THE CENTER FOR ARIZONA POLICY HAVE LATCHED ONTO AND SENT OUT PRESS RELEASES SAYING THIS WILL ALLOW ABORTIONS UP UNTIL THE MOMENT BEFORE BIRTH.

BUT TO JIM'S POINT, HE'S RIGHT, THAT THE STATS HAVE SHOWN THAT THERE ARE ALMOST NO ABORTION EASYSTHAT HAPPEN AFTER THE VIABILITY STANDARD.

>> THE BAN THE REPUBLICANS ACTED, THIS IS FOR EMERGENCIES AND PHRASED DIFFERENTLY.

BUT THE BASIC CONCEPT IS STILL THERE AND EVEN MOST PLACES WITH EVEN STRINGENT ABORTION RESTRICTIONS STILL HAVE SOME LANGUAGE LIKE THAT WHERE YOU HAVE TO LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCIES, LIFE OF THE MOTHER, A SEVERE HEALTH PROBLEM.

>> IF YOU DON'T BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN IN A LOT OF STATES, A LOT OF REPUBLICAN-LEAD STATES THAT PASSED LAWS THAT ARE ONEROUS AND DON'T HAVE EXCEPTIONS AND SOME OUT OF LOUISIANA AND TEXAS AND OHIO AND INDIANA.

I THINK THAT THOSE THINGS HAVE, I THINK, BEEN USED BY THE REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS COMMUNITY.

HERE ARE LAWS THAT ARE STRICT AND HAVE NO -- DON'T ACCOUNT FOR THE CONTINGENCIES IN THE REAL WORLD, HERE ARE THE PROBLEMS YOU HAVE FOP.

>> Ted: THIS ISSUE ON THE BALLOT NEXT YEAR, THAT COULD BE A DRIVING FORCE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS?

>> IT SEEMS LIKE IT COULD BE.

I MEAN, WE SAW JUST THIS WEEK IN OHIO THE ISSUE ONE WHICH WASN'T ABOUT ABORTION AND FRAMED THAT WAY AND THE QUESTION TO MAKE IT HARDER TO RAISE THE THRESHOLD FOR APPROVING CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS IN OHIO AND THAT DREW INCREDIBLE TURNOUT THERE.

THERE'S A FEELING NATIONALLY, A FEELING NATIONALLY THAT THIS WILL DRIVE TURNOUT AND I HAVE HEARD THAT IT COULD CERTAINLY HELP PEOPLE ON THE LEFT, FOLKS WHO BELIEVE IN REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND MAYBE POTENTIALLY REPUBLICANS WHO IF IT TURNS OUT TO BE A BIDEN-TRUMP REMATCH, REPUBLICANS WHO ARE MAYBE NOT SO STRONG OH REPRODUCKTIVE RIGHTS MIGHT VOTE AGAINST THIS.

>> I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS VIEWING THIS TO DRIVE THAT MUCH REPUBLICAN TURNOUT.

THIS IS SOMETHING REPUBLICANS USE TO DRIVE TURNOUT AND ROE V. WADE AND A POLITICAL GIFT TO BOTH SIDES.

WITH DOBBS LAST YEAR AND A LOT OF FOLKS WHO VOTE REPUBLICAN, LEAN TO THE RIGHT WHO WERE NOT SO HAPPY TO SEE THE SUPREME COURT RULE THAT WAY.

THEY MAY SEE A LOT OF THE SAME THING THIS YEAR AND YOU HAVE YOUNGER VOTERS, NONTRADITIONAL WHO CAN BE DRIVER DRIVEN TO THE POLLS ON THIS ONE ISSUE.

YOU LOOK AT LAST YEAR'S SURPRISING GAINS, THE REVEREND TALKS ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES AND PUTTING UP THESE KIND OF ELECTION DENIER, MAGA TYPES.

THE LESS SPOKEN ABOUT IS THE DOBB'S DECISION AND BEHIND THE SCENES, THESE YOUNGER, NONTRADITIONAL VOTERS CAME OUT BECAUSE OF THAT AND IT KILLED THEM.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE'S A REASON.

YOU ELUDED TO IT EARLIER THAT THIS WOULD BE IN THE BALLOT IN A LOT OF STATES.

I'M SURE IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THE SWING STATES AS THEY EXIST, YOU WILL SEE IT ON THE BALLOT WHERE THEY HAVE TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT THROUGH THE INITIATIVE PROCESS.

THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT.

A, BECAUSE THEY'RE PROTECTING REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND IN A PRESIDENTIAL YEAR WHERE YOU HAVE JOE BIDEN ALMOST CERTAINLY AS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE RUNNING AGAINST A REPUBLICAN AND TRYING TO AVOID SOME OF THE CLOSENESS THAT EXISTED IN 2020, THESE THINGS MAYBE INCREMENTAL AND MAYBE AN EXTRA 1% TURNOUT AND THAT MAY BE IN HOW MANY CLOSE RACES IN 2020.

>> Ted: WILL WE KNOW HOW CONCERNED REPUBLICANS ARE BY THE FIGHT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY?

>> I'M NOT SO SURE.

I WOULD EXPECT A FIGHT REGARDLESS.

THE OTHER CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATIONS, BOTH IN THE STATE AND OUTSIDE OF THE STATE WILL BE SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY.

>> Ted: AXIOS, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH AXIOS AND REPORTING THAT KARI LAKE IS STAFFING UP AND DO SOME INTERVIEWS IN SEPTEMBER FOR A POSSIBLE U.S. SENATE RUN.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S HAPPENING.

>> IN OCTOBER, IS WHAT MY COLLEAGUES ARE REPORTING AND KIND OF HARD TO TELL THAT SHE WOULD BE GEARED UP FOR A SENATE IN ARIZONA BASED SHE'S IN IOWA AND IN OHIO AND MAR-A-LAGO AND IN THAT ORBIT THAT REVOLVES AROUND DONALD TRUMP, BUT SOUNDS LIKE SHE IS, IN FACT, GETTING READY.

WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT HER LIKE THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE AND THE LIKELY REPUBLICAN NOMINEE AGAINST R RUBIN GALLEGO.

WE'VE SEEN POLLING THAT SHOWS SHE'S THE RUN AWAY FAVORITE AND THEN THE PINAL COUNTY SHERIFF AND THE POLL NUMBERS FROM EMER EMERSON DID NOT LOOK GOOD.

SHE CAN GET IN HER LEISURE THAT MOST OTHERS COULDN'T.

>> Ted: IN SEPTEMBER AND MAYBE A POSSIBLE THREE-WAY RACE AND THIS THING IS STILL SO FLUID AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT SINEMA WILL DO.

>> I THINK THAT'S THE BIG UNANSWERED QUESTION, IS WHETHER SHE'LL SEEK REELECTION AS AN INDEPENDENT AND A PATHWAY TO VICTORY TO CARVE OUT VOTES FROM THE CENTER, I GUESS, AND TO PULL FROM BOTH, YOU KNOW, CENTER RIGHT REPUBLICANS AND CENTER LEFT DEMOCRATS TO COBBLE A COALITION TO GET RE-ELECTED.

>> Ted: WITH THE PRESIDENT ARRIVING AT THE GRAND CANYON REGARDING THE NATIONAL MONUMENT UP THERE, RUBIN GALLEGO GREETED THE PRESIDENT AT THE AIRPORT AND NOT AT THE GRAND CANYON AND SINEMA WAS NOT AT THE AIRPORT AND AT THE GRAND CANYON, AT THE MONUMENT.

INTERESTING THEY'RE DOING A LITTLE DANCE.

>> A LITTLE BIT, BUT SINEMA HAS BEEN DISTANCING HERSELF FROM THE PRESIDENT OVER THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS AND VOTED AGAINST SOME OF HIS BILLS OR OPPOSED HIS NOMINEES AND THE SHE'S PICKING HER SPOTS A LITTLE BIT IN TERMS OF SORT OF BE WITH THE PRESIDENT AND NOT BE WITH THE PRESIDENT.

>> Ted: GALLEGO HAS OUTRAISED SINEMA IN THE LAST QUARTER AND SHE HAS $11 MILLION CASH ON HAND FOR THE LAST QUARTER.

SO THEY'RE OUT THERE AND CIRCLING AND STILL A POSSIBILITY.

>> SURE.

SINEMA WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM AND THE SIGNATURES SHE NEEDS FOR THE HIGHER THRESHOLD ON THE BALLOT AS AN INDEPENDENT.

RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, CONGRESSMAN GALLEGO IS RAISING A LOT OF MONEY OFF OF BEING KARI LAKE'S POTENTIAL AND THESE DAYS, DONATING MONEY TO DEFEAT KARI LAKE.

>> Ted: JIM, WOULD THE ESTABLISHED PARTY, WILL THEY SUPPORT A KARI LAKE AND A KYRSTEN SINEMA, IF IT'S THAT OR RUBIN GALLEGO?

>> THAT'S THE QUANDARY THEY FACE.

WHERE DO THEY THROW THEIR MONEY OR BACK AND IT MAY BE A SITUATION WHERE NOMINALLY, THEY'RE BACKING THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, BUT BEHIND THE SCENES OR THE MONEY, THE INTEREST THAT FUND A LOT OF THOSE EFFORTS MIGHT LINE UP BEHIND SOMEONE LIKE KYRSTEN SINEMA WHERE SHE'S PROVEN HERSELF GOOD AT LINING UP MONEY FOR HER CAMPAIGNS AND THERETHERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK IF SHE RUNS AS AN INDEPENDENT, THERE WILL BE A ROBUST OUTSIDE FUNDING EFFORT.

>> I THINK IT'S REALLY INTERESTING THAT IN ALL OF THE TIME THAT THE SENATE RACE HAS BEEN SOMETHING TALKED ABOUT, EVEN JUST SINCE THE LAST ELECTION, AS JEREMY POINTED OUT, ONE REPUBLICAN HAS GOTTEN IN AND THIS IS A U.S. SENATE RACE AND IT SEEMS AS THOUGH ALL OF THE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN WAILINGWAITING TO SEE WHAT KARI LAKE WOULD DO, IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND NOT GETTING IN WITH THE ANTICIPATION SHE WOULD.

>> Ted: ANY REPUBLICAN OUT THERE THAT WOULD GO IN EVEN WITH KARI LAKE IN THE PRIMARY?

I MEAN, SHE'S TOUGH TO BEAT WITH THE BASE HERE, BUT IS THERE NO OTHER REPUBLICAN OUT THERE WILLING TO STEP UP AND SAY, LET'S GIVE IT A SHOT?

>> I MEAN THERE MIGHT BE, BUT I MEAN, THE NUMBERS JUST DON'T SHOW A GREAT PATH FOR THEM WITH LIKE THE IN RACE.

>> Ted: WHAT DO YOU THINK, JEREMY?

>> WHATEVER HER PERFORMANCE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION AND I THINK A LOT OF REPUBLICANS ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS PROBABLY NOT GREAT, IN THE PRIMARY, SHE HAS SO MUCH SUPPORT FROM THE BASE, FROM THE GRASS ROOTS AND FOLKS WHO LARGELY SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP AND SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THAT IS GOING TO MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR A DOUG DUCEY TYPE.

I THINK DOUG DUCEY WOULD DO WELL THAT POSITION, BUT HE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SENATE RACE.

THERE'S REALLY NO ONE ELSE I SEE ON THE HORIZON FROM THAT WING OF THE PARTY WHO COULD STEP IN AND REALLY MOUNT A CHALLENGE TO LAKE FOR THAT G.O.P PRIMARY.

>> Ted: COULD A MORE ESTABLISHED REPUBLICAN JUMP IN, THOUGH, IF LAKE AND LAM SPLIT THE MAGA VOTE?

>> POTENTIALLY.

BUT IF SOMEONE WERE LOOKING TO DO THAT, YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN PEOPLE MAKING MOVES.

THE ELECTION IS A LONG TIME AWAY AND NOT A LOT OF POLITICAL INSIDERS PAYING ATTENTION.

IF YOU WANTED TO RUN THAT KIND OF RACE, YOU NEEDED TO MAKE THOSE KINDS OF MOVES.

>> Ted: MAKE MARK FINCHEM AND THE SANCTIONS, HE LOVE IN MOHAVE COUNTY, HE HAS TO PAY SANCTIONS.

>> HE DOES.

ESSENTIALLY, THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED IN BAD FAITH.

THEY FILED A LAWSUIT THAT ULTIMATELY THREW OUT THE PROCEEDINGS AND ACKNOWLEDGED THAT EVEN IF YOU FIND IN OUR FAVOR, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH VOTES HERE TO WIN, TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME WHICH IS THE SIGN THAT, WELL, WHY ARE WE HERE?

THIS IS A GROUNDLESS LAWSUIT AND YOU'RE WASTING THE COURT'S TIME.

>> Ted: THE SANCTIONS WERE LEVYING IN MAY BUT ONLY UNTIL HE HAS THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO COVER IT AND BOOM, IT'S PAID!

>> FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS.

>> Ted: IS THAT WHAT YOU READ INTO IT, JEREMY?

>> YOU HAVE TO START LOOKING AT THE BOOKS AND BANG ACCOUNTS AND ASSETS THEY MIGHT HAVE.

>> Ted: REPORTEDLY VEHICLES AND REAL ESTATE HOLDINGS AND RIGHT AFTERWARDS, PLEA FOR MORE FUNDS.

>> I THINK A CONSISTENT THING FOR HIM AND IN PARTICULAR RAISING MONEY FOR LEGAL DEFENSE FUNDS AND, YOU KNOW, SOME HALF-TRUTHS AND CAMPAIGN DEBT.

BUT CERTAINLY, IT'S A THING NOW AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE'S MORE SANCTION TAZ ARE BEING FACED NOW AND YOU KNOW, IN A DIFFERENT CASE AND COMING OUT OF YUMA COUNTY WITH FORMER DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATIVE LEADER.

YOU KNOW, ANOTHER TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF SANCTIONS THAT FINCHEM AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE TASKED WITH.

>> Ted: THE DEFAMATION CASE WITH HERNANDEZ.

>> SHE WROTE A LETTER THAT A NUMBER OF OTHER PEOPLE, DEMOCRATS AND LEGISLATORS SIGNED ON FOR TO BE INVESTIGATED IN THE JANUARY 6th RIOT AT THE CAPITOL.

THAT CASE DID NOT GO ANYWHERE.

BASICALLY, MY UNDERSTANDING, THEY'RE WAITING TO SEE WHAT THE LEGAL BILLS ARE BEFORE FINCHEM ASSESSED SANCTIONS ON THAT ONE.

>> Ted: LET'S MOVE ON TO THE DEMOCRATS AND WE HAVE A BIT OF A SCABBLE, A DUST-UP, BROUHAHA WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE DRAKE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

>> THEY, LOOKING TO SEND OUT 100,000 MAILERS, STANDARD, PREELECTION CAMPAIGN STUFF.

SO THE GO-TO CONSULTANT THEY USED GO AGAVE STRATEGY, WELL-KNOWN TO FOLKS IN POLITICAL CIRCLESES.

BUT WHAT WASN'T KNOWN, AT LEAST NOT PROVEN, SUSPICIONS AT THE TIME, IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE PARTY, A WOMAN NAME ALEX YA ALEXIA GALLOWAY, THEY SAID, HEY, USE BLACK PRINT AND USE FRANK'S COMPANY AND DON'T TELL ANYONE.

THE REASON IS THERE WAS A NEW CONFLICT OF INTEREST POLICY AT COUNTY PARTY BECAUSE THIS HAS HAPPENED A FEW TIMES THROUGHOUT LAST YEAR AS THE CONTRACTS WENT THROUGH THERE.

EVERYTHING WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE EXCEPT THE MAILERS NEVER WENT OUT.

WHEN PEOPLE STARTED REALIZING THAT AND ASKING QUESTIONS, PEOPLE WERE ASKING FOR PAPERWORK.

PAPERWORK WAS PROVIDED FROM BRUCE FRANKS ALLEGEDLY, TO AGAVE STRATEGY WHICH WAS PASSED TO THE PARTY.

THE TREASURER OF THE PARTY STARTED LOOKING TO THIS AND THIS DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT AND CONTACT THE POSTAL SERVICE AND PRO EVERYONE SAID WE NEVER HEARD OF THIS, WE DON'T HAVE THIS JOB.

ALL KIND OF DIED DOWN UNTIL THESE DOCUMENTS SURFACED RECENTLY AND PUTTING OUT PUBLIC STATEMENTS.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, RESIGNATIONS AND THE CHAIR OF PARTY WHO SEEMED ODDLY UNINTERESTED IN ASKING ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT SUSPICIOUS THINGS ALSO RESIGNED AND AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION AND POSSIBLE REFERRAL TO LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Ted: JIM, I'M HEARING FRAUD, POSTAL SERVICE INVOLVED AND THIS IS NO FOOLIN' AROUND HERE.

>> NO FOOLIN' AROUND.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY FRAUDULENT POSTAL RECORDS AND YOU OPEN UP THE DOOR INTO FEDERAL CRIMES.

STATE FRAUD IS BAD ENOUGH AND OPENING YOURSELF UP TO INTERSTATE FRAUD BECAUSE A COMPANY IN CALIFORNIA VERSUS IN ARIZONA AND SO, YEAH, THIS COULD BE SERIOUS.

I THINK WHAT WE'VE SEEN REPORTED SO FARTHER AND WHAT JEREMY AT AXIOS AND WHAT OTHER FOLKS DUG UP IS CONCERNING.

DEMOCRATS, A LOT OF DEMOCRATS IN THE COUNTY ARE REALLY TRYING TO GET THEIR ARMS AROUND THIS AND FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED AND WHO KNEW WHAT WHEN.

>> WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, FOR THE COUNTY PARTY, ABOUT $24,500, WHICH WAS THE TREASURER WHO GOT SUSPICIOUS AND THIS IS WAY TOO LOW FOR THE A LOT OF MAILERS THEY WERE SENDING OUT.

THEY WERE ASKING FOR THE MONEY BACK SAYING THEY DIDN'T GO OUT.

WE NEED THE MONEY BACK.

THREE FABRICATED DOCUMENTS SHOW UP SAYING EVERYTHING IS FINE.

IT'S EASY TO VIEW THAT AS AN ATTEMPT TO DEFRAUD THE PARTY.

FROM THERE, YOU GET INTO QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY NOBODY REFERRED THIS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AT THE TIME.

>> Ted: THAT'S A QUESTION, AS WELL, AND IF YOU WERE A DEMOCRAT -- THERE HAS TO BE CONCERNS AMONG DEMOCRATS, WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE?

>> ESPECIALLY WE ARE STILL AS JEREMY AND JIM POINTED OUT, QUITE AWAYS AWAY FROM NEXT YEAR'S ELECTION.

AT THE SAME TIME, THIS IS WHEN THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS LAID DOWN AND THIS IS WHEN PEOPLE START REALLY GETTING THEIR PLANS TOGETHER TO GET READY FOR NEXT YEAR SO THEY'RE NOT CAUGHT OFFGUARD.

IF THE COUNTY PARTY IS DEALING WITH THIS AT THAT TIME, THERE ARE LEGITIMATE QUESTION.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN IF WE'RE A DEMOCRAT IN MARICOPA COUNTY NEXT YEAR.

>> Ted: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR DEMOCRATS AND DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGNS EASY AND OVERALL WHEN DEMOCRATS, THEY HAVE THE ABORTION INITIATIVE ON THE BALLOT.

YOU HAVE BIDEN REELECTION.

IT'S A BIG ELECTION NEXT YEAR AND DEMOCRATS FEEL THAT WAY FROM THE PREVIOUS ELECTION AND NOW THIS POPS UP.

>> SURE.

YOU LOOK AT JOE BIDEN, RUBIN GALLEGO, THE ABORTION MEASURE AND FUNDING IS COMING FROM D.C. FROM THE COUNTY PARTY, THIS IS PUTTING BOOTS ON THE GROUND AND PUTTING VOLUNTEERS OF PEOPLE'S DOORS, KNOCKING AND THE REAL GRASS ROOT'S OPERATION AND A LOT OF THAT WILL GO THROUGH THE COUNTY AND NOT JUST MAILERS.

AND YOU HAVE LOCAL RACES, LOWER LEVEL RACES, COUNTY RACES WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE CANDIDATES FOR ALL OF THESE SPOTS YET.

BUT THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE MIGHT START BEING CONCERNED IF THE PARTY CAN'T PICK UP THE PIECES.

WE HAVE A NEW CHAIR OVER THERE.

I WOULD IMAGINE THEY'RE HOPING TO GET THIS OFF THEIR PLATES AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND RESTORING TRUST AND GETTING THAT GAME PLAN IN PLACE FOR NEXT YEAR'S ELECTION.

>> Ted: JIM, WHAT IS THE NO-LABEL'S PARTY AND WHY IS IT GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT?

>> THE NO LABEL'S PARTY IS KIND OF A NATIONAL EFFORT, CERTIFICATELY, TO CREATE A THIRD PARTY AND A UNITY PARTY AND WHAT SPLITS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

I THINK WHAT THEY TALK ABOUT IS IF THE TWO PARTY'S NOMINEES ARE TOO EXTREME TO FIND SOMEONE IN THE MIDDLE AND BRING FOLKS TOGETHER WHO DON'T WANT TO GO SUPER FAR LEFT OR SUPER FAR RIGHT.

THEY HAVE WORKED TO GET PARTY STATUS IN A NUMBER OF STATES, PARTICULARLY IN SWING STATES.

ARIZONA BEING ONE OF THEM.

ARIZONA FILED A LAWSUIT CHALLENGING THE PAPERWORK, SAYING PAPERWORK ERRORS IN WHAT THEY SUBMITTED IN ORDER TO GET ON THE BALLOT AND THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN APPROVED AS A PARTY FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE AND THE JUDGE THIS WEEK SAID, NO, THEY'RE FINE.

THEY'RE OK.

BUT ONE THING BROUGHT UP LATER IN THE PLEADINGS WASN'T PART OF THE ORIGINAL LAWSUIT AND SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU WANT TO INVESTIGATE THAT MORE AND COME BACK AND FILE ANOTHER LAWSUIT.

>> Ted: IS THAT THE SIGNATURES?

IS >> I THOUGHT THE WAY THE ORDER THAT THE SIGNATURES WERE COLLECTED, THERE WAS A CONCERN THERE BUT I WASN'T SURE.

>> I THINK THAT WAS PART OF OF IT.

THESE ARE REAL NITTY-GRITTY RULES AND NOT A LOT OF PARTIES THAT POP UP.

YOU HAVE A HANDFUL THAT ARE ALWAYS ON THE BALLOT OR COME ON AND OFF AND NOT A BIG DEAL.

THIS ONE, DEMOCRATS ESSENTIALLY, MORE OF A REPUBLICAN, SHADOW REPUBLICAN GROUP TO GET ON THE BALLOT AND SYPHON DEMOCRATIC VOTERS AWAY TO PAVE THE PANEL FOR DONALD TRUMPTHE PATH FORWHOEVER THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE IS.

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE CONCERNS IS THAT WE -- UNLIKE POLITICAL PARTIES, NO LABELS DOESN'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE ITS DONORS AND THAT WAS A CONCERN THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAD IN SAYING, LOOK, IF THEY'LL BE A POLITICAL PARTY, THEY HAVE TO PLAY BY THE SAME RULES AS THE REST OF US.

>> Ted: WHERE ARE THE REST OF US CONCERNED AND THE REPUBLICANS NOT SO MUCH?

>> THE DEMOCRATS BENEFITED FROM A LOT OF CROSS-OVER VOTERS, FOLKS IN THE MIDDLE, RIGHT OF CENTER WHO CAN'T STOMACH DONALD TRUMP FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS AND I CAN'TYOU PUT IN LEFT OF CENTER, SEVEN CENTRIST, AND THE KYRSTEN SINEMA TYPE AND PEOPLE FLOCK TO THAT CANDIDATE AND PULL THE VOTES MAY HAVE GONE TO JOE BIDEN WHO WERE DEFECTING FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE TO THE CENTRIST CANDIDATE.

IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE CANDIDATE AND WHERE THEY STOOD.

BUT I THINK DEMOCRATS VIEW THIS AS SOMETHING IN THE WAY OF THEIR ATTEMPTED DRAW, CROSS-OVER VOTERS AWAY FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.

>> Ted: EXTREME CANDIDATES, MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

>> THE REPUBLICAN PORTING ON NO LABELS SHOWS THAT FROM WHAT PEOPLE TRACK DOWN, A LOT OF MONEY COMES FROM WALL STREET AND BIG INDUSTRIES THAT GENERALLY SUPPORT REPUBLICANS.

IN FACT, SOME DONORS WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, VERY UPFRONT AND WRITING LARGE CHECKS TO HELP CONSERVATIVE OUTFITS.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT FEEDS A LOT OF THE DISTRUST FROM LIBERALS AND PRO PROGRESSIVES.

>> Ted: COULD A PARTY LIKE THIS MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> DEPENDING ON RIGHT CANDIDATE, SURE.

IF THEY GET AN INFRASTRUCTURE FOR A KYRSTEN SINEMA TYPE, LIKE THAT KIND OF CANDIDATE, SURE.

I MEAN THE RIGHT RACE AND RIGHT YEAR WITH THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF MONEY, SURE.

>> ABSOLUTELY IT COULD.

LOOK HOW CLOSE THIS ELECTION COULD BE AND LOOK BACK AT 2020.

ARIZONA WAS THE CLOSEST OF THE PRESIDENTIAL STATES, TEN THOUSAND, 11,000 VOTES IN THE STATE.

IT WAS LESS THAN A PERCENT, LESS THAN A PERCENTAGE POINT.

IF YOU GOT A CANDIDATE WHO ISN'T A GREAT CANDIDATE BUT SYPHONS 4% OR 5% OF THE VOTE, THAT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN ARIZONA.

THAT MARGIN WOULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE IN GEORGIA AND IN OTHER STATES.

>> Ted: IT WOULD BE INTERESTING, AS WELL, TO SEE WHAT KIND OF CANDIDATE WOULD AGREE TO RUNS A A NO-LABEL'S PARTY CANDIDATE.

GENTLEMEN, GOOD TO HAVE YOU AND THANKS FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.