>> America has a big and historic choice to make.

Who will be the next president.

>> The first woman or the first convicted felon earlier this year.

Author Jonathan Alter who grew up in Chicago was among a small group of journalists in the courtroom for former President Donald Trump's conviction for illegally concealing hush money payments to adult film star.

Alter wrote a book on it called American Reckoning Inside Trump's trial and my own and he joins us now with more.

Jonathan, thanks so much.

Snow.

You grew up again in Chicago.

He says a blue block, but really much of Illinois otherwise.

And of course, we've got battleground states as our neighbors, heavily Republican.

So outside of the candidates themselves, do you feel like we are at a point in America where there is a divide and is there a risk of it becoming irreparable?

Well, I wouldn't that far, but we're clearly tremendously divided.

And this is a national moment of truth.

This is the most significant election.

I would argue.

>> Since another Illinois native Abraham Lincoln ran for re-election in 18, 64.

That's how big the stakes are.

It's really about what kind of country do we want to be when you have?

Donald Trump's former chief of staff, retired general and his former top military commander, the chair of the Joint Chiefs.

Both saying he is a fascist, does not believe in our system of government and he's this close to going back to the presidency.

And that's what they learned for morning.

Was there the last time this is a a crisis is an American crisis.

So the question becomes.

What do all of us do about it?

And in the book, in addition to covering the trial, I write about when Franklin Roosevelt was president and he he had people at the depths of the depression, hang decal in the window and and a blue eagle on it.

And it said underneath we do our part.

So what does each of our part?

So for me, it's bearing witness writing.

That's what I can Other people they can do all kinds of things beyond just voting.

They can use these Cole tools to call in the battleground states from the comfort of their own home.

They can go over the border into Wisconsin and help get out the vote.

There's a lot that people can do.

You need to stop wringing hands and start ringing doorbells to save our Republic.

You know, I think that you write in your book is well I guess it should be a point that American reckoning for you.

It's a double meaning.

It is that the reckoning and trumpet your own reckoning.

>> With what it means to be an American You write that you believe that there's an assault on your assumption that most Americans have common sense.

So is this beyond It's way beyond partisanship.

I mean, this is.

>> This is not shouldn't be about, you know, whether you want taxes to go up for the wealthy are down for whatever those are minor issues compared Our system of government.

I mean, we have a a candidate, Donald Trump who wants to use the military or the National Guard against American citizens.

>> Why do we have about half the country behind with?

This is the great puzzle that I try to sort through in the book.

And and I think that my reaction to what's happened in this country and to Trump's criminality.

I think it patterns reaction of a lot of people out there.

Not just Democrats, by the way, look at Liz Cheney.

Now there's quite a number of Republicans, including many conservative Republicans who don't believe Trump is a conservative, budget.

He's protectionist.

Also, he He doesn't at American values of freedom and democracy.

He wants to be a strong man.

He wants to be an American who so we have to ask ourselves.

What do we do it like how do we respond?

So let's affect you because you were one of the few people that had a window into this trial.

He got close to him.

What did you learn during the trial that?

>> Most Americans don't know.

It didn't have the opportunity to see because there were not cameras in the court.

The extent of his criminality he, you know, he was guilty on 34 counts and was 34 counts of the same offense.

But during the trial, we saw a picture of criminal operation.

And you know that they they they basically.

We're undertaking a conspiracy to change the 2016 election.

Everybody knows that he tried to stage a coup to overturn results of the 2020 election.

But this trial is about the 2016 election.

I barely scratched the surface.

The New York Times of the drama of this trial, like just imagine seeing this jury foreperson go guilty, guilty, guilty 34 times and they see Donald Trump.

He looks like he's been punched in the gut before he puts on his game face for the cameras and witnessing all of this.

and have witnessed a lot of stories 40 years in journalism.

This was a hugely dramatic moment.

And so I try to take the readers into the courtroom and really paint a picture of what was like in a very entertaining trial as well.

>> Your story and sort of your career is also connected to your mother broke barriers in Cook County politics.

And of course, this is a potentially historic election with the chance to see the first woman elected president of the United States.

No.

Let's look at a clip of a woman candidate >> in Cook County, it talking about the importance of representation.

This is from 1990.

>> I think it's important for our political establishment and our elected officials reflect our society.

And when we can put up and ticket completely man, Sheriff States, attorney, president of the County Board Assessor.

All men were not reflecting our society.

Now there are women who are qualified to run for higher office.

And I believe I'm one of those.

And I think that it's important for men and women to understand that we have to have a representative government and representative means young and old and black and white and men and women and presenting a ticket without any women on it is a disgrace.

I think in 1990.

>> There, of course, is your very own mother tear to What did you learn from her about sort of the travails of breaking gender barriers and what does that have for this race now just to be accurate, she lost that race for county that what she had previously 18 years.

Earlier in 1972.

>> She became the first woman elected to office in Cook County commissioner of district called the water Reclamation district and she broke barriers.

I kind of thought of her as like the Jackie Robinson of gender politics in Chicago.

But you know what I learned from her and she learn from a very brief meeting with Eleanor Roosevelt when she was in college is that you have to?

Think about how you're going to try to make a better world.

And that it's not enough to just.

Send it out and sure other things that you can do and people are very busy, but they have to take some time trying to work for social progress and some at least some time right now, if you are alive, she would be saying it's all hands on deck to try to save our democracy.

>> Now in your book briefly is well, speaking of another powerful woman, Nancy Pelosi, you had the opportunity really learn from her.

Her role in getting as a vice President Harris to be the Democratic Party nominee.

>> The story that I tell book, which is all new, does not come directly from her, but it comes from somebody very close to her and somebody very close to Joe Biden.

And it tells what I think is a very dramatic and historically important story of how she maneuvered Joe Biden off the ticket this past summer.

she did so with great skill.

It was a very deft operation at first she thought that the men, Schumer, you know, Jeffries Clinton.

Obama, that they were kind that the women had more courage to step forward and do it.

The Democratic Party needed, which was to get a candidate who could win and she achieved that.

It was it was very tough going and it cost her her 40 year friendship with Joe Biden.

If it wasn't for COVID.

I report for the first time in this book, Joe Biden would probably at the nominee today COVID I was told by somebody very close to him was the last straw and he was ready play out the clock and stay on the ticket.

You really did not want Bow out.

We will leave it