>> Ted: COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, THE JOURNALIST'S ROUND KANSAS CITY TABLE AND WE WILL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING THE END OF THE LONGEST LEGISLATIVE SESSION IN HISTORY.

THAT'S NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

WELCOME.

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALIST'S ROUNDTABLE.

WE HAVE JEREMY DUDA AND MARY JO AND CAMRYN SANCHEZ.

JEREMY, 204 DAYS OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, OVER AND FINISHED AND WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG?

>> AT THE TIME THIS STARTED, WE WEREN'T SURE AND SEEMED LIKE A WASTE OF TIME.

THEY WERE OFF FOR SEVEN WEEKS AND IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED AND IT TURNS OUT THEY DID GET SOMETHING DONE DURING THAT TIME.

THE PROPOSITION 400 NEGOTIATIONS DRAGGED OUT ALL SESSION LONG AND DID NOT LOOK LIKE THERE WOULD BE A DEAL AND PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO SCRAMBLE AND FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, PLAN B AND C, WHATEVER FOR THIS HALF-CENT TRANSPORTATION TAX IN MARICOPA COUNTY AND THEY DID WORK OUT A DEAL TO HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WHEN THEY CAME BACK FOR SINE DIE BY FAR THE LONGEST LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS.

>> THEY WERE PAYING, WHAT, AND I FORGET THE NUMBERS NOW BUT 119 A DAY FOR RURAL LAWMAKERS, TEN BUCKS A DAY FROM THE PEOPLE IN THE METRO AREA.

IF YOU GOT A DEAL, THE GOVERNOR WOULD CALL A SPECIAL SESSION AND BRING THEM BACK.

>> Ted: CAMRYN, THE NUMBERS SUGGEST 143 VETOES AND 203 BILLS SIGNED INTO LAW AND THE IS THAT ONE THE DEALS THAT KEPT THIS GOING?

>> PROP 400 IS PART OF IT AND PART WAS TENSION BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS AND LEADERSHIP AND THE GOVERNOR FROM A DIFFERENT PARTY AND HIM, I THINK WANTING AND HOPING TO KEEP THE SESSION GOING.

I'M GLAD WE SINE DIED BECAUSE THAT WAS AWFUL.

>> Ted: AGAIN, HEARING SOME ANALYSTS AN CONSULTANTS AND ELSEWHERE SAYING A LOT OF POLITICAL POSTURING AND A LOT OF THIS AND A LOT OF THAT AND A LOT OF NOISE, BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE MOST PRODUCTIVE SESSION.

>> NOT REALLY.

THAT'S A LOT OF VETOES AND NOT A LOT OF LEGISLATION IN REALITY AND A LOT OF BILLS GOT FILED BUT NOT A LOT MADE IT TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BILLS SIGNED, A LOT ARE AGENCY BILLS WHERE THEY'RE FIXING A TWEAK HERE OR THERE IN DIFFERENT STATE AGENCIES AND OTHERS,.

I MEAN, THERE'S GOOD THAT COMES OF THEM AND APPEAL TO SMALLER CONSTITUENCIES AND THE REAL BROAD-BUSH IS THE BUDGET AND THE PROP 400 WITH THE SIDE CAR OF THE REPEAL OF THE RENTAL TAX.

>> Ted: WHICH WE WILL GET TO IN A SECOND HERE.

JEREMY, WE HAD RESIGNATIONS.

MORE THAN USUAL AND EXPULSIONS?

>> RESIGNATIONS, NOT SO MUCH AND A COUPLE PEOPLE RUNNING FOR CONGRESS AND OTHER STUFF AND RESIGNATIONS, I THINK LAST YEAR, I THINK, WE HAD AN EXTRAORDINARY NUMBER OF RESIGNATIONS AND I THINK IT SEEMED LIKE FEWER THAN USUAL, BUT EVERY SESSION WILL BE SOME HERE AND THERE AND NOT USUALLY EXPULSIONS.

UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES AND NOT AN EXPULSION OF SOMEBODY THAT HAS BEEN THERE A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

>> Ted: THAT ALSO DOESN'T SPEED THINGS UP, DOES IT?

>> NOT NECESSARILY.

I MEAN, BECAUSE IT DID HAVE -- THIS WAS AN EXPULSION OF A REPUBLICAN MEMBER AND DID DIVIDE THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS AND WHETHER THAT HELPED SOME PEOPLE DIG IN MORE, IT'S UNCLEAR.

>> THAT REDUCED THE NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE TO 30 AND NOT ENOUGH TO PASS ANYTHING ON A PARTYLINE VOTE AND THAT HELD UP THINGS GOVERNOR HOBBS WOULD VETO AND IT'S NOT GETTING SIGNED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THAT IS, OF COURSE, WHAT THEY SPENT A LOT OF THEIR TIME DOING, SENDING THINGS TO HOBBS SHE WOULD VETO TOE.

THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS THEY WERE HAVING THE RUN AND THIS IS DIFFERENT AFTER THE ELECTION, WHICH A LOT AREN'T SUPER HAPPY ABOUT.

>> Ted: THEY WORKED OUT THIS DYNAMIC AND THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR AND THEY WON'T LAST THIS LONG NEXT YEAR, CORRECT?

>> I WOULD NEVER, EVER SAY THAT ON TELEVISION.

[ Laughter ] >> I HOPE IT DOESN'T LAST THIS LONG AND NEXT YEAR WILL BE SUPER FUN BECAUSE OF THE ELECTION STUFF THAT WILL BE SWIRLING AROUND.

BUT WE WON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH PROP 400 AGAIN.

IF THAT IS WHAT WE'RE CALLING THE FACTOR, THAT IS OUT OF THE WAY.

>> Ted: WHAT ABOUT BUDGET CONCERNS?

>> BUDGET IS A CONCERN.

>> Ted: THAT WILL COME UP STRONG.

>> I WOULD EXPECT THAT AND SAY EVEN NOW, THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT IT.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE TARGETS, REPUBLICAN TARGETS REGARDING THE BUDGET AND THE DEMOCRATS, ESA, NEVER GOING TO GIVE THAT UP AND REPUBLICANS, WHAT ARE THEY LOOKING FOR?

SHARED REVENUE?

>> FOR NEXT SESSION?

>> Ted: NEXT SESSION, YEAH.

>> THERE IS A BELIEF THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING MORE ON WATER AND THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT AND MORE ON HOUSING BECAUSE, BECAUSE OF WATER, AS WELL AS JUST WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING WITH COSTS.

BUT THE BUDGET WILL BE AS CAMRYN SAYS, REVENUES HAVE TAKEN A DOWNTURN AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THAT WILL LAST AND MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS ON WHAT TO, MAYBE, CUT OR WHAT YOU CANNOT FUND.

THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM WOULD BE, LOOK, IF YOU HAVE TO CUT THE BUDGET, THERE'S NOT MUCH TO DEBATE OVER AND YOU GET IT QUICKLY.

IF THERE'S A SURPLUS, YOU CAN ARGUE FOREVER.

THE DYNAMIC IS DIFFERENT WHEN YOU HAVE A SPLIT GOVERNMENT.

>> Ted: THAT ELECTION YEAR DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE, DOESN'T IT?

>> OH, YEAH.

>> Ted: PROP 400, THE BILL PASSES AND THE LEGISLATURE DEEMED IT OK FOR MARICOPA COUNTY FOR RESIDENTS TO VOTE ON THE EXTENDED TAX.

>> AS LONG THEY DON'T GET TO VOTE ON THE EXTENDED LIGHT RAIL, WHICH IS ONE OF THE MAIN STICKING POINTS, THAT THE REPUBLICANS DID NOT WANT ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO EXPAND THE LIGHT RAIL TRACKS BEYOND WHERE THEY'RE AT AND DID NOT WANT THE CITY OF PHOENIX TO EXPAND IT IN CERTAIN AREAS WITH THEIR OWN MONEY WITHOUT MAKING A LOOP AROUND THE CAPITOL AS SOME OF THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP TOOK GREAT OFFENSE AT.

THE WAY SPEAKER TOMA AFTER SINE DIE, WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD ENCASE A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE WITH LIGHT RAIL ON ALL SIDES.

>> A PERSON INSULT.

>> Ted: WE HAVE THREE WAYS, ROADS 21% AND TRANSIT 37% AND TRANSIT IS NOT AN EXTENDING OF LIGHT RAIL AND SOMETHING 3% TO MAINTAIN WHAT YOU HAVE HERE.

BUT THERE WAS A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS AND THEY THOUGHT THE 37% WERE TRANSIT WAS TOO MUCH AND JUST BUSES?

>> A LOT OF CAVEATS AND THE GIVE AND TAKE AND ONE IS THAT YOU CAN LOWER -- YOU CAN INCREASE THE AMOUNT YOU'RE SPENDING ON OTHER THINGS AND NOT TRANSIT.

TRANSIT CAN'T GO UP AND THE YOU CAN ONLY GO DOWN.

>> Ted: WHY IS THAT?

>> BECAUSE THEY DON'T IT.

>> Ted: WHY?

>> I THINK KERN TWEETED CITIES BEING COMMUNISM AND FREEDOM CAUCUS NUMBERS THAT DEMOCRATS WANT TO TAKE YOUR CARS AWAY.

I HAVE NEVER HEARD DEMOCRATS SAY THAT.

IT'S NOT THE MOST LUCRATIVE THING AND THAT'S NOT THE POUND, THE POINT, BUT PEOPLE THAT DON'T USE PUBLIC TRANSIT OFTEN.

>> FOLKS TOOK ISSUE WITH THE WAY PROP 400 WAS STRUCTURED.

SOME OF THE SPEECH IS WHAT THEY VIEW AS A RELATIVELY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO USE PUBLIC TRANSIT COMPARED TO THE RELATIVELY LARGE AMOUNT OF THE PROP 400 REVENUE AND THE WHAT THEY PUT IT, HELD HOSTAGE.

THE ROADS ARE HELD HOSTAGE TO THIS.

THE VERSION THAT GOVERNOR HOBBS VETOED THIS YEAR HAD A BIFURCATED QUESTION.

PEOPLE WOULD VOTE ON 400 AND VOTE SEPARATELY ON THE PUBLIC TRANSIT FUNDING.

THAT'S WHAT THEY WANTED SEE AGAIN.

THAT'S A NONSTARTING WITH GOVERNOR HOBBS.

THE SPEAK SAID ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

>> THUS, THE DEAL.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A DEAL.

I UNDERSTAND THERE WAS DIS-MAY THAT THEY WOMAN WOULDN'T GET BILLS FROM JUNE.

SEPARATE QUESTION ON ROADS AND I THINK IT WAS LIGHT RAIL.

BUT THAT WAS VETOED AND SO YOU HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE TABLE AND WORK SOMETHING ELSE OUT.

>> Ted: SOMETHING ELSE NIXED WAS USING CLIMATE CHANGE AND AIR POLLUTION CALLED BY REPUBLICANS.

IT WAS UNATTAINABLE GOAL ESTABLISHED BY THE RADICAL LEFT.

>> IF HE'S TALKING ABOUT FEDERAL OZONE STANDARDS, WHICH WE'RE CLOSE TO VIOLATING AND THEN WE WOULD BE DOWNGRADED AND THEN THAT WOULD ENTAIL MORE RESTRICTIONS ON TRAVEL, BUT YEAH, PETERSON WAS PROUD THE FINAL PRODUCT GOT RID OF SOME HORRIFIC MEASURES ON AIR QUALITY THAT WE COULD GO WILD ON.

>> Ted: LAST QUESTION ON THIS, WINNERS, LOSERS, AND WHO CAME OUT ON TOP ON THIS?

>> WELL, THE WAY I LOOK AT IT, THE CITIES LOST A FAIR BIT.

THEY LOST THE MONEY FROM THE RENTAL TAX, WHICH AND PHOENIX LOST THE CAPITAL LOOP.

ALTHOUGH, I'M HEARING TAKE THAT THIS IS A BLESSING IN DISGUISE.

BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD A RAIL LINE OUT WEST FROM DOWNTOWN, GET AT LEAST CLOSE TO THE CAPITOL AND PIT WHERE PHOENIX CAN CONTROL THE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS AROUND LIGHT RAIL AND MAYBE REVITALIZE VAN BURAN STREET.

>> Ted: THE CONSERVATIVES GOT ROLLED AND WHO GOT ROLLED?

>> THEY ALL DID IN A WAY.

IT WAS A COMPROMISE AND JUST LIKE THE BUDGET, YOU KNOW, THE SAME CONVERSATION WE HAD.

WELL, YOU KNOW, THE DEMOCRATS COMPLAINED ABOUT ALL OF THE MONEY THAT THE REPUBLICANS GOT FOR SPENDING SMALL PROJECTS, BUT THEY GOT THE STUFF THEY WANTED.

SO IT'S A COMPROMISE AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'LL SEE FOR THE NEXT YEAR, AS WELL.

>> Ted: WINNERS, LOSERS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE PROP 400 BUSINESS.

>> IF YOU'RE ENJOYING TWITTER NOTETHEATER LIKE I DO, THE ANGRY PEOPLE WHO ARE UPSET AND TALKING WOULD BE THE FREEDOM CAUCUS MEMBERS WHO VOTED NO.

I WOULD SAY THE BIGGEST WIN FOR THE OTHER REPUBLICANS, THE NON-FREEDOM CAUCUS REPUBLICANS BECAUSE THEY GOT A PROP 400 DEAL THROUGH THAT HAS A LOT OF CONSERVATIVE WINS IN IT.

>> AND I THINK YOU HAVE TO ADD THERE WERE WINS FOR DEMOCRATS BECAUSE THEY KEPT LIGHT RAIL FUNDING IN THERE.

THE ABILITY AND THIS IS WHAT HAS THE FREEDOM CAUCUS SO UPSET, BUT THE WAY THE LAW WAS WRITTEN, NO, YOU WON'T GET NEW MONEY FOR LIGHT RAIL, BUT IF IF A CITY WANTS ALL ALLOCATION ON LIGHT RAIL, THEN THEY CAN TAKE PROP 400 ON TRANSIT AND USE LOCAL FUNDS FOR LIGHT RAIL.

>> Ted: JEREMY, WINNERS, LOSERS.

>> THE FREEDOM CAUCUS IS THE ONES WHO WALKED AWAY EMPTY HANDED.

>> Ted: LET'S GET TO THE RENTAL TAX BECAUSE THAT WAS A PART OF THE BARGAIN AND DEAL.

THE GOVERNOR VETOED THIS EARLIER AND NOT THIS TIME.

>> YEAH, THEY MADE SOME CHANGES TO THE BILL THAT WAS VETOED EARLIER IN THE YEAR TO ALLEVIATE HER CONCERNS TO THE POINT SHE COULD SIGN THIS AS A PART OF THE PROP 400 AGREEMENT.

IT DELAYED THE EFFECT TO THE BEGINNING OF 2025 AND PUT IN A PROVISION THAT SAYS IF A TENANT ACCUSES OF LANDLORD OF NOT REDUCING THE RENT, THAT THE RENT BY THE AMOUNT OF THAT TAX AND THEY GO TO COURT, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE LANDLORD.

WHO KNOWS HOW OFTEN SOMEONE WILL BE WILLING TO GO TO COURT FOR THAT.

THIS WAS A CONCERN THAT GOVERNOR HOBBS CITED WHEN THEY VETOED, THAT HOW WILL WE KNOW LANDLORDS WILL REDUCE THE AMOUNT?

IF YOU GO TO SAFEWAY, THEY REDUCE A TAX ON FOOD, THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY WON'T CHARGE THAT.

BUT A LANDLORD, WHO KNOWS?

YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT AN ITEMIZED LIST OF THE COSTS.

>> THIS IS AN EXACT DEBATE WITH PETERSON AND HE'S PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS RENTAL TAX AND HAPPY IT GOT THROUGH AND WE HAD THE EXACT SAME DISAGREEMENT, ARGUMENT, DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHY CAN'T THEY RAISE THE RENT IN THAT AMOUNT AND HOW WILL ANYONE PROVE THAT IT IS OR ISN'T BECAUSE OF THE RENTAL TAX?

DOESN'T THAT AFFECT THE MARKET?

>> Ted: THAT ISN'T SOLVED WITH THIS LEGISLATION?

>> I WOULDN'T SAY SO.

THE BILL SAYS DON'T DO IT BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM OTHERWISE?

THERE'S NO FINE OR PENALTY AND JUST SAYS, DON'T DO IT.

>> Ted: IMPACT OF KILLING THIS TAX ON SMALLER COMMUNITIES.

>> FOR A LOT OF THEM, IT'S A BIG CHUNK OF THE GENERAL FUND, WHICH MOST GENERAL FUND CITY BUDGET MONEY GOES TO PUBLIC SAFETY AND SO DEMOCRATS AND CITIES ARE BILLING THIS AS A WAY TO, YOU KNOW, DEFUND THE POLICE AND WHY WOULD REPUBLICANS WANT TO DEFUND THE POLICE?

THE CITY OF PHOENIX WOULD LOSE 85 TO $90 MILLION IN THE COMING YEARS AND THAT'S REAL MONEY AND SOME IS ALLOCATED TO SPECIFIC PROJECTS IN THE CITY, SPECIFIC POTS OF MONEY.

>> Ted: THE REPUBLICAN RESPONSE ARE THE CITIES ARE A WASH IN CASH AND THIS IS A BOGUS ARGUMENT ON THEIR PART.

>> RIGHT.

THIS IS BECAUSE THERE WAS THE WAYFAIR AGREEMENT WHICH ALLOWS THE LOCAL CITIES TO TAX ONLINE PURCHASES.

THIS HAS BEEN A DEBATE GOING BACK AND FORTH FOR A LONG TIME, BUT A LOT OF THE CITIES CONTEND THE WINDFALL FROM WAYFAIR IS NOT AS BIG AS REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE.

>> YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT WE'LL HAVE TO DEFUND THE POLICE THING FROM THE CITIES IS A SCARE TACTIC AND I HIGHLY DOUBT WE WON'T HAVE POLICE ANYMORE.

THAT'S THE FIRST THING ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK.

>> I'M SURE THEY SAY THAT ANYTIME TO LIMIT CITY REVENUES.

>> Ted: WHY IS THIS THE FIRST THING YOU MENTION WHEN WE BRING THIS UP?

CAMR GALAXY, WE HAVE A CONFIRMATION CITING AT THE LEGISLATURE?

>> CONFIRMED GLOVER, OUR GPS DIRECTOR.

HE HAD AN EASY TIME THROUGH THE SENATE AND 5-0 VOTE IN THE DYNO COMMITTEE AND THAT WAS A CORDIAL COMMITTEE MEETING AND NOT ALL OF THE DIRECTORS BY A MILE.

>> Ted: WAS THIS IS PART OF THE PROP 400 DEAL, DO YOU THINK?

>> I COULDN'T SAY AND I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THAT BEING A PART OF THE DEAL.

IF GOVERNOR HOBBS WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT, THERE'S A LOT OF AGENCY HEADS OUT THERE.

WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THE SEVEN MANUFACTURE WEEK VACATION THEY TOOK AT THE LEGISLATURE AND THE REASON TO 104 DAYS, ONE OF THE REASONS TO STAY IN SESSION, ALL OF THESE EXECUTIVE APPOINTEES AND WE NEED TO VET THROUGH CONFIRMATION AND DIDN'T DO MUCH OF THAT.

THESE FOLKS ARE HANGING OUT THERE AND THERE'S NO GOOD ANSWER.

WE SPOKE WITH PRESIDENT PETERSON AFTER THE SINE DIE AND THE COMMITTEE CAN HAVE HEARINGS THROUGHOUT THE OFF-SESSION AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A SPECIAL SESSION OR SOMETHING OR MAYBE COME BACK IN THE BEGINNING OF THE NEXT SESSION AND CONFIRM THEM.

YOU ASK JAKE HOFFMAN AND NOT UNTIL GOVERNOR HOBBS GETS RID OF THESE TYRANNICAL ORDERS.

IF YOU WOULDN'T GO QUITE AS FAR TO 100% CONDITION, BUT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A MAN KEY ON HOLDING CONFIRMATION HEARINGS UNLESS YOU GET CONCESSIONS OF HIS OWN.

>> Ted: THE CONCEPT OF A SPECIAL SESSION SEEMS FAR-FETCHED.

HOWEVER, WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE PEOPLE?

HOW LONG CAN THEY SERVE WITHOUT BEING CONFIRMED?

>> THEY CAN SERVE FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF THEIR APPOINTMENT.

SO FOR SOME OF THESE PEOPLE, THAT DEADLINE WILL HIT PROBABLY IN, YOU KNOW, LATE JANUARY, FEBRUARY, A COUPLE OTHERS, FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD.

SO I WONDER IF THE GLOVER CONFIRMATION WAS A LITTLE BIT OF AN OLIVE BRANCH TO SAY, LOOK, WE'LL GET THIS DONE IN TIME, BUT I HAVE NO INSIGHT ON THAT.

IF THE ONE YEARS YEAR PASSES AND NO NOMINATION, CONFIRMATION VOTE, THEY'RE OUT AND THEN YOU HAVE TO FIND SOMEBODY ELSE.

AND YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF EFFECT THIS WHOLE PROCESS HAS HAD ON RECRUITING PEOPLE TO THE JOBS.

WHO WANTS TO COME TO ARIZONA AND TAKE A JOB WHERE YOU MAY BE OUT AFTER A YEAR.

>> Ted: IS THIS THE KIND OF THING WE'LL SEE FIRST THINGS FIRST NEXT SESSION?

>> POSSIBLY.

I THINK PETERSON WANTS TO DO IT AND MORE SENATE COMMITTEE MEETINGS IN THE INTERIM BUT THE WHOLE SENATE THAT HAS TO OFFICIALLY CONFIRM SOMEONE.

SO SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN NEXT YEAR.

>> Ted: JEREMY, MOJAVE COUNTY WENT THROUGH LOOKING AT HAND COUNTING BALLOTS AND NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE, THOUGH, HUH?

>> YOU CAN SET ASIDE THE ARGUMENTS OF HOW MUCH MORE INACCURATE THAN MACHINE COUNTING, WHICH IS TRUE.

IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ELECTION INTEGRITY, MACHINE COUNTING IS MORE ACCURATE, BUT TALKING ABOUT DOLLARS AND CENTS, THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE WILL HAVE PROBLEMS.

ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A COUNTY FACING A SEVERE BUDGET DEFICIT, IT SOUNDS LIKE AND THE ELECTION DIRECTOR SAID WE'LL TAKE HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF TRA EXTRA HOURS OF WORK.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL BE WILLING TO DO THAT.

IT'S A 3-2 VOTE AND THEY DECIDED NOT TO GO DOWN THAT WAY.

WE'LL SEE WHAT A FEW OTHER COUNTIES DO.

>> Ted: WHO ARE THE STATE LAWMAKERS REPRESENTING?

WEREN'T THOSE STATE LAWMAKERS VERY ANTI-MACHINE?

ABOUT THE SENATOR FROM THAT DISTRICT, BORELLI, IMPLORED THEM TO GO TO OTHER COUNTIES, AS WELL, WITH WENDY RODGERS WHO DOESN'T REPRESENT THAT AREA.

ANOTHER PRO-HAND COUNT PERSON.

>> Ted: THE TESTS SHOW IT WASN'T AS ACCURATE AND MORE COSTLY AND IT TOOK LONGER TO GET THE RESULTS.

AND FOLKS STILL THINKING IT'S A GOOD IDEA?

>> THERE'S A LOT OF DISTRUST IN THE TABULATION MACHINES.

IN ELECTION PROCESSING, BALLOTS ARE CASTS, TABULATED BY A MACHINE AND THERE IS A SAMPLE THAT IS PULLED OUT OF THAT.

THEY DO A HAND COUNT AND THOSE THINGS ALMOST PERFECTLY MATCH, YOU KNOW, THE MACHINE COUNT.

SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME THIS FAR, MAINTAINING THIS POSITION SINCE 2020, AND HAND COUNT, I'M SURE, WE'LL SEE ANOTHER BILL NEXT SESSION SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE MUST HAND COUNT ELECTIONS.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT NOTHING CHANGED WITH ELECTION BILLS AND MOST GOT VETOED AND NOT SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE ELECTION PROCESS AND WE'LL HAVE A 2024 ELECTION GOING BY, BASICALLY, THE SAME RULES AS 2020 IN 2022.

>> Ted: NEXT SESSION, AGAIN, I KEEP LOOKING FORWARD, WILL THEY DUMP THE SAME THING AGAIN, DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THE OPINIONS ARE MIXED AND EARLY.

ONE OBSERVER SAID, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT ALL OVER AGAIN?

BUT THE ANSWER IS BECAUSE IT'S GOOD FOR YOUR CAMPAIGN LITERATURE.

>> Ted: AGAIN, DOES THIS MEAN THE LEGISLATURE MIGHT BACK OFF A LITTLE BIT ON HAND COUNTS?

MOJAVE COUNTY, IT'S HARDLY A BASTION OF LIBERALISM.

NOT AS ACCURATE AND THE WHOLE NINE YARDS HERE.

>> EVERYTHING THAT MARY JO AND JEREMY SAID, THEY DON'T TRUST THE TABULATION MACHINES AND IF THEY DO IT WITH THEIR HANDS, IT'S BETTER AND WHO WILL DO IT AND THE MONEY AND IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

BUT DO I THINK THE LEGISLATURE WILL BACK OFF OF THE POSITION?

NO, NOT REALLY.

I MEAN, I COULD SEE PEOPLE DROPPING THE SAME STUFF AND NOT CARING IF IT IS PASSED OR NOT.

YOU SAY YOU TRIED.

>> YOU HAVE THE TRUE BELIEVERS AND WENDY ROGERS AND BELIEF IF HAND COUNTING NO MATTER WHAT THE ACTUAL FACTS SAY AND THIS HAS BECOME MAGA WORLD AND THE ELECTION INTEGRITY STUFF STARTING WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP IN 2020 FALSELY TELLING PEOPLE THAT VOTING BY MAIL IS, YOU KNOW, NOT GOOD AND THE ACCUSATIONS ABOUT THE MACHINES AROUND ELECTION TIME AND THE CASCADING EFFECT OF ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND THE HAND COUNT STUFF.

THE MACHINES, THE CENTRAL ONES.

>> Ted: MARY JO, MARK FINCHEM CHALLENGING THE SECRETARY OF STATE RATE AND I THINK HE FILED A MOTION TO DISMISS?

>> HE LOST THE RACE BY 120 VOTES AND WENT TO COURT TO CONTEST THAT AND LOST IN THE SUPERIOR COURT AND APPEALED IT TO THE COURT OF APPEALS AND THEN OVER THE WEEKEND, HIS ATTORNEY FILED A MOTION TO DISMISS, SORT OF POINTING THAT WE'VE HAD KARI LAKE AND ABE HAMADEH.

>> Ted: BUT ARE THEY DONE BECAUSE, PLEASE, THE NEXT DAY.

>> MARK FINCHEM STILL HAS A LAWSUIT GOING BECAUSE HE SAYS THE GOVERNOR LEVIED SANCTIONS.

HE'S JUST A BUSY MAN BECAUSE ALONG WITH GOING AROUND WITH ROGERS AND SENATOR BORELLI TO TALK TO COUNTY OFFICIALS ABOUT THE VALUES OF HAND COUNTING, HE'S GOING TO RUN FOR THE STATE SENATE AGAINST KEN BENNETT AND WHOMEVER ELSE FILES IN THAT COUNTY.

>> Ted: HE HAS TO FIND A HOME.

>> NEAR NOTTHEY'RE NOT RUNNING FOR ANYTHING.

HE'S GOING FROM PIMA AND REGISTERED TO VOTE IN MARICOPA AND RUNNING FOR COUNTY RECORDER AND NOW, APPARENTLY, CLAIMING RESIDENCE IN YAVAPAI AND THEN SECRETARY OF STATE AND SO, HE'S ALL OVER THE PLACE.

>> Ted: I WAS GOING TO ASK IF THIS ENDS THE CHAPTER OF ELECTION DENYISM AND ABE HAMADEH SAYING SUPREME COURT, COME SAVE ME.

[ Laughter ] >> I WOULD NOT SAY IT ENDS THAT.

HAMADEH IS A MORE COMPELLING CASE THAN FINCHEM BECAUSE HIS EMAILS ARE LESS WEIRD AND HE LOST BY A SMALLER MARGIN.

FINCHEM LOST BY THE LARGEST MARGIN OF MY STATE-WIDE CANDIDATE AND THAT'S HARDER FOR ANYONE TO GET BEHIND.

>> THE 280 VOTE FOR HAMADEH LOSING TO AG KRIS MAYES AND HE'LL KEEP FIGHTING.

>> THE COURT SAID HAMADEH DIDN'T PRESENT ENOUGH AND HOW DO YOU TRY TO CONVINCE ANYONE THAT YOUR 120,000 VOTE LOSS CAN BE REVERSED?

>> HAM DAY ISHAMADEH IS SAYING, YEAH, I HAVE GOOD EVIDENCE AND LET ME GET SOME.

>> Ted: WILL THE SUPREME COURT GO FOR THAT?

>> THE LOWER COURT SAID, YOU HAD YOUR TIME AND YOU QUESTION ELECTION RESULTS, ARE THEIR PROVISIONAL BALLOTS TO GET COUNTED ON YOUR SIDE.

YOU DON'T GET AN ENDLESS SUPPORT OF TIME AND CLAIMING THIS PERSON DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE REGISTERED TO VOTE HERE AND DIDN'T MEAN TO REGISTER TO VOTE THERE.

THAT'S NOT GENERALLY THE WAY THE SYSTEM WORKS.

BUT WE'RE IN UNCHARTERED TERRITORY.

>> Ted: WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, YAY OR NAY, IS IT THE END OF ELECTION DENIALISM?

>> OH, NO.

HELLO?

2024 PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

[ Laughter ] >> Ted: FOR THE 2020 CAMPAIGN, IS IT THE END OF THAT DENIAL?

>> NOT WITH TRUMP.

>> Ted: 2022, JEREMY?

>> NO, AND CAMRYN.

>> I'M IN PRE-2020 DENIAL MODE.

>> Ted: THANK YOU ALL, PANEL.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.