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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING A LAWSUIT FILED BY THE ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL OVER DELAYS IN THE SWEARING-IN OF AN ELECTED ARIZONA CONGRESSWOMAN.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AND JOINING US TONIGHT, JESSICA BOEHM FROM AXIOS PHOENIX.

CAMRYN SANCHEZ FROM KJZZ RADIO, AND DENNIS WELCH FROM CBS 5 AND 3TV.

PANEL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

JESSICA, THIS IS A WEEKLY OCCURRENCE NOW.

ADELITA GRIJALVA IS STILL NOT IN OFFICE.

WHAT'S THE LATEST?

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>> THAT'S CORRECT.

OUR ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES DECIDED TO GO TO COURT OVER IT.

WE WERE SAYING USUALLY SHE'S SUING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THIS TIME SHE'S SUING THE U.S.

HOUSE, SAYING THAT IT IS PAST TIME FOR CONGRESSWOMAN-ELECT GRIJALVA TO BE SWORN IN, AND ASKING THE COURT TO, IF SPEAKER JOHNSON IS NOT GOING TO SWEAR HER IN, TO MAKE SURE SOMEONE ELSE IS ABLE TO DO SO.

TED: I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE INTERESTING PART OF THIS LAWSUIT.

HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO DO THIS, YOU CAN FIND SOMEBODY ELSE.

>> RIGHT, DELEGATE A LITTLE BIT.

NOT LIKE A STATUTE THAT SAYS THE SPEAKER HAS TO DO IT WITHIN 24 HOURS OTHERWISE THEY'RE BREAKING THE LAW AND GET A SLAP ON THE WRIST.

THEY'RE ARGUING THIS IS A TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION ISSUE.

SOMETIMES THE ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE A LOT OF DISCRETION WHEN THEY WANT TO MAKE DECISIONS.

>> THERE'S THE LEGAL AND THE PR ASPECT.

EARLIER THIS YEAR, TWO REPUBLICANS, I BELIEVE FROM FLORIDA, WHO WON THEIR SPECIAL ELECTIONS AND THEY WERE SWORN IN ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.

A MONTH PAST ADELITA GRIJALVA WINNING HER ELECTION PRETTY HANDILY.

THE RACE HAS BEEN CERTIFIED BY THE STATE, AND SHE SITS AND WAITS AND HAS NO OFFICE.

I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF INTERVIEWS WITH HER.

FIELD OFFICES HER FATHER HAD HAVE BEEN CLOSED DOWN, SO THERE'S CONCERNS ABOUT WHETHER THE CONSTITUENTS DOWN IN SOUTHERN ARIZONA ARE GETTING THE HELP THEY NEED, IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS.

ALSO MOVING FORWARD, ADELITA GRIJALVA WOULD ALSO TELL YOU THE REASON WHY SHE THINKS SPEAKER JOHNSON IS NOT BRINGING HER AND SEATING HER RIGHT NOW, AND HAS TO DO WITH THE EPSTEIN LIST.

GRIJALVA HAS COMMITTED TO BEING THE 218th SIGNATURE ON A DISCHARGE PETITION TO FORCE A VOTE TO HAVE THE D.O.J.

RELEASE THE INFORMATION ON THAT SO-CALLED EPSTEIN LIST.

TED: AND YET THE SPEAKER'S RESPONSE TO THE LAWSUIT IS, IT IS A, QUOTE, PATENTLY ABSURD LITIGATION.

>> CORRECT.

HE SAYS YOU HAVE NO JURISDICTION OVER CONGRESS.

WHAT'S YOUR ROLE HERE?

AND IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE AS CAMRYN MENTIONED, THERE'S NOT A SPECIFIC STATUTE SAYING IF YOU DON'T DO IT WITHIN THIS AMOUNT OF TIME, IT'S HARD.

IT'S NOT LIKE THERE IS A SPECIFIC STATUTE YOU CAN POINT TO, THIS IS WHY I'M SUING UNDER, WHICH IS WHY THE LAWSUIT GETS IN THE WEEDS.

TED: AGAIN TO THE POINT, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE YOU, IT CAN BE SOMEONE WHO ADMINISTERS OATH.

>> I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING HE GIVES UP POWER.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING THIS IS ABOUT THE EPSTEIN FILES AND THE FACT THAT GRIJALVA WOULD BE THE VOTE TO PUSH THE FILES.

JOHNSON IS USING THIS AS A BARGAINING CHIP, WE'RE GOING TO USE HER IF AND WHEN THE DEMOCRATS BACK OFF AND ALLOW US TO REOPEN THE GOVERNMENT THE WAY WE WANT TO.

HE'S TYING IT TO THAT ISSUE.

TED: YEAH.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY TOO, IT IS INTERESTING WHAT LAW ARE YOU CITING FOR THE LAWSUIT AND WHAT NOT?

FOR KRIS MAYES, SHE'S TRYING TO CEMENT HERSELF AS THE FACE OF THE DEMOCRAT RESISTANCE IN ARIZONA.

AS JESSE WAS JOKING EARLIER, SHE TOOK A BREAK FROM SUING TRUMP THIS WEEK TO SUE THE HOUSE SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON.

SHE REALLY HAS BEEN PUSHING BACK HARDER THAN ANY OTHER STATEWIDE ELECTED OFFICIAL AGAINST THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

TED: YOU AGREE WITH THE SPEAKER, SHE'S LOOKING FOR NATIONAL ATTENTION?

>> I THINK EVERYONE IS LOOKING FOR NATIONAL ATTENTION AT THIS POINT.

THERE'S A LOT OF POLITICAL STUNTS GOING ON AND EVERYONE IS TRYING GET THEIR MINUTE OF FAME AND PUBLICITY FOR THEIR SIDE.

TED: ONE MORE POINT ON THIS, THE LONGER THIS IS DELAYED, THE MORE PEOPLE THINK THE SPEAKER CAN TALK TO THE REPUBLICAN HOLDOUTS ON THE 218th VOTE AND PULL THEM BACK ONTO THE FARM?

>> EXACTLY RIGHT.

IF THAT IS THE REASON THAT HE IS DELAYING THIS, THIS GIVES HIM A LITTLE MORE TIME.

YOU CAN GET THOSE ONE OR TWO PEOPLE TO SAY, HEY, THE PRESIDENT REALLY WANTS THIS OF YOU.

I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY NOW, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN THE FLORIDA REPRESENTATIVES WERE SWORN IN, THE GOVERNMENT IS SHUT DOWN.

SO THAT'S LIKE THIS EXTRA LITTLE THING HE GETS TO USE TO SAY, WELL, THERE'S ONE WAY TO DO THIS.

TED: DID WE FIND OUT ABOUT THE JUDGE IN THIS CASE TODAY?

I THOUGHT I SAW SOMETHING ABOUT THE FACT THAT A TRUMP APPOINTEE WOULD BE LOOKING AT THIS?

>> I DID SEE THAT.

WE'LL SEE WHAT IT MEANS.

TED: INTERESTING.

MOVE ON.

FAKE ELECTORS CASE.

SOUNDS LIKE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS MAYBE A LITTLE MORE TIME ON THIS?

>> THEY'RE ASKING FOR MORE TIME.

BASICALLY THE LAST WE HEARD IN THIS CASE WAS THEY SAID THE GRAND JURY NEEDED MORE INFORMATION, SO YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THAT AND GIVE THEM NEW INFORMATION, AND WE CAN TAKE UP THE CASE AGAIN, MAYBE.

BUT THE BALL IS IN MAYES' COURT AND ASKING FOR AN EXTENSION ON THIS.

WE'RE WAITING TO SEE IF SHE'S GOING TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN.

KNOWING MAIZE, SHE'S A FIRE BRAND.

SHE LIKES TO BE AT THE FRONT OF THINGS.

THIS IS A BIG PROJECT OF HERS, I COULD SEE HER GOING FORWARD AGAIN.

>> SHE LIKED TO REMIND EVERYBODY SHE GOT A REALLY LATE START ON THIS.

WE SAW SIMILAR LAWSUITS FILED BY SIMILAR ATTORNEYS GENERAL IN OTHER STATES, BUT THEY WERE WORKING ON THIS A LOT SOONER THAN KRIS MAYES WAS.

THIS GOES BACK TO 2020.

WE'RE IN 2025 RIGHT NOW.

THIS THING HAS BEEN PLAYING OUT FOR A VERY LONG TIME, AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S CRITICISM THAT'S BEEN THROWN HER WAY ON THE HANDLING OF THIS CASE FOR THE REASON WHY IT GOT REMANDED BACK TO THE GRAND JURY, BECAUSE APPARENTLY, PEOPLE IN HER OFFICE DIDN'T FOLLOW THE PROPER PROCEDURES OR INFORM THE GRAND JURY ON EVERYTHING THEY NEEDED TO INFORM THEM ON.

TED: WE SHOULD SAY THE SUPREME COURT SAYS WE'LL GIVE YOU MORE TIME, THAT'S IT.

NO MORE EXTENSIONS HERE.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S THE LAST-MINUTE NEWS OF THE DAY, THAT HAS BEEN GRANTED.

I THINK IT'S MIDDLE OF NOVEMBER, END OF NOVEMBER.

TED: 21st, I THINK, YES.

>> YEAH.

TO THE BIGGER CONVERSATION WE'RE HAVING HERE, I THINK PROBABLY EVEN ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES DOESN'T NECESSARILY WANT TO KEEP HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, BUT, A, IT CAME UP LATE, AND B, NOW, THERE IS THE ISSUE, IT'S THE ORIGINAL INDICTMENT.

IT PUT HER IN A DIFFICULT POLITICAL POSITION WHERE I THINK VOTERS IN 2024 KIND OF TOLD DEMOCRATS, HEY, WE'RE KIND OF DONE TALKING ABOUT 2020, BUT NOW SHE'S PUT HERSELF IN THIS SITUATION WHERE SHE'S SAYING THIS IS ABOUT LIKE PROTECTING DEMOCRACY, SO YOU CAN'T JUST NOW SAY, EH.

TED: CAN SHE SAY EH AND GET A NEW GRAND JURY?

>> SHE'S NOT AN EH KIND OF PERSON BUT SHE CAN GET A NEW GRAND JURY FOR SURE.

>> THAT FEELS LIKE THE MOST LIKELY.

TED: HOW LIKELY DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE?

>> THAT SHE KEEPS GOING WITH THE NEW GRAND JURY?

TED: YEAH.

>> I WOULD GIVE IT A 60.

>> WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

>> I THINK SO.

CAMRYN IS RIGHT.

SHE IS -- AS CAMRYN USUALLY IS, SHE'S RIGHT ON THE LINE.

TED: SHE IS.

>> BUT I WAS GOING TO SAY, SHE IS THE FACE OF THE RESISTANCE, AND I DO THINK BELIEVES THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS DONE WRONG IN THE 2020 ELECTION, AND THEY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AND PURSUE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT.

I BELIEVE SHE BELIEVES IT IS ABOUT PROMOTING AND PROTECTING DEMOCRACY.

TED: GIVE ME NUMBERS, 60/40?

>> I'M GOING TO SAY ABOVE 60.

I'M GOING TO SAY 75.

SHE LETS THIS GO POSSIBLY BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS SHE REALLY DOES BELIEVE THIS, POSSIBLY BECAUSE I THINK POLITICALLY IT'S DIFFICULT TO LET IT GO AT THIS POINT.

TED: CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 1 LOOKS LIKE IT HAS A NEW REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE, AND THIS REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE HAS ALREADY RECEIVED A TRUMP ENDORSEMENT, AND GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES?

TED: >> STARTING OFF THE CAMPAIGN WITH A BANG.

GINA SVOBODA, ARIZONA REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIR.

SHE'S GOT A LOT OF FRIENDS BUT ALSO ONE PARTICULAR FACTION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS AN ENEMY OF HERS, JAKE HOFFMAN, PRETTY MUCH THE TURNING POINT WING.

SHE'S ANNOUNCED HER CANDIDACY AND ACTING AS THE CHAIR, WHICH FOR SOME FOLKS IS A HUGE PROBLEM AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

TED: WHY A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE YOU'RE THE CHAIR AND RUNNING?

>> SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THE CHAIR IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE BIASED AND NOT SHOW INTEREST IN PARTICULAR CANDIDATES AND SHE IS A CANDIDATE.

SOME FOLKS ARE SAYING IT'S INHERENT CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND SHE SHOULD STEP DOWN.

>> I'M FASCINATING BY THIS RACE.

I LOVE THE FIGHTING FIRST IN ARIZONA HERE'S.

IT'S BEEN DAVID SCHWEIKERT'S SEAT FOR A LONG TIME, IT'S LIKE LUCY AND THE PROVERBIAL FOOTBALL AND CHARLIE BROWN, WITH SCHWEIKERT STEPPING AWAY, GOING TO BE FASCINATING TO SEE HOW GINA SVOBODA CONNECTS WITH THE VOTERS IN THE DISTRICT.

THIS IS A TRUE SWING DISTRICT.

ONE OF TWO IN ARIZONA, ONE OF A FEW ACROSS THE STATE, AND I WONDER HOW SHE'S GOING TO CONNECT WITH THE VOTERS IN THE DISTRICT.

REMEMBER SCHWEIKERT REPRESENTED THAT DISTRICT FOR YEARS.

TED: IF SOMEONE TO HER RIGHT, CONSIDERABLY TO HER RIGHT CAMPAIGNS, AGAIN, IN THE PRIMARY, AND THERE HAS TO BE A FIGHT AND HAS TO BE A DIFFERENCE THERE, WOULD THAT HELP HER IN THE GENERAL, TO SAY, SEE, I'M NOT MAGA, AND THAT DISTRICT DOES NOT SEEM MAGA FRIENDLY?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM PRIMARY CANDIDATES GET INTO, RIGHT?

THEY HAVE TO GO ONE WAY DURING THE PRIMARY.

IF YOU'RE IN A TOUGH DISTRICT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF INDEPENDENTS AND DEMOCRATS SUPPORT YOU TO GET TO WHERE YOU NEED TO GO.

SO I THINK, YES, THAT COULD HELP HER, BUT ALSO LIKE THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM HERE, NOT TO MAKE A PUN, IS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SAYING FULL TOTAL ENDORSEMENT, BASICALLY SAYING I'M NOT GOING TO DO THAT THING I'VE DONE IN THE PAST WHERE I DO TO ENDORSE YOU.

TED: DID HE SAY THAT OR -- HE COULD ENDORSE 15 DIFFERENT PEOPLE?

>> HE COULD SAY.

THAT IT'S A GOOD STRONG START FOR HER.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO TOUT.

TO JESSICA'S POINT, GINA SVOBODA REMINDS ME OF THE PRIMARY DANCE OF GETTING TRUMP'S SUPPORT, BUT NOT BEING SUPER CLOSE TO HIM, AND NOT SCARING THE INDEPENDENTS AWAY, AND KEEPING HOLD ON THINGS IN A DELICATE BALANCE.

>> ONE OF THE MORE INTERESTING STORIES OVERALL IS HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR ANY BIG-NAME CANDIDATE TO JUMP INTO THE RACE.

THESE THINGS ARE POLITICAL PRESSURE VALVES.

ANY TIME A CONGRESSMAN OR CONGRESSWOMAN SAYS THEY'RE STEPPING DOWN, NOT GOING TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION, YOU GET A CATTLE CALL OF CANDIDATES.

HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO WAIT?

IT'S BEEN WEEKS SINCE SCHWEIKERT ANNOUNCED HE WASN'T GOING TO RUN IN THAT SEAT, AND CONFIRMED WHAT I THOUGHT WAS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES, IT WAS ALL ABOUT WHO CAN SECURE THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT BECAUSE IT IS SO PIVOTAL IN REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES.

TED: WILL THERE BE OPPOSITION TO HER IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY?

>> THERE WILL BE SOMEONE, BUT WHETHER IT'S AN ACTUAL, LEGITIMATE CHALLENGE IS A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

IT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION, AND I DON'T KNOW, I GOT A KICK OUT OF THAT LANGUAGE THAT WAS USED IN THE ENDORSEMENT, IT WAS LIKE FULL AND TOTAL, AND I WONDER, THE PRESIDENT HAS TO HAVE PEOPLE AROUND HIM SAYING THIS, WE NEED THIS SEAT.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH YEAR FOR REPUBLICANS, WE NEED THIS SEAT.

WE NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN WIN THIS SEAT.

TED: DO YOU THINK SCHWEIKERT WILL DO ENDORSEMENT OF GINA SVOBODA ANY TIME SOON, LIKE NOW?

>> I ASKED HIM ABOUT ENDORSEMENT.

HE DIDN'T RULE IT OUT COMPLETELY.

IT'S POSSIBLE.

IN TERMS OF ANOTHER REPUBLICAN PROMINENT OF JUMPING IN, I NOTICED THAT TURNING POINT FOLKS HAVE BEEN TWEETING, NUDGING JAY FEELY, FORMER CARDINALS KICKER, JAY FEELY WHO PUT A STATEMENT OF INTEREST TO RUN IN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 5, NOT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 1.

SAYING YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE GREAT?

IF YOU JUMPED TO CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 1, YOU WOULD DO GREAT THERE.

TED: HE'S FRIENDS OR HUNG OUT WITH THE PRESIDENT.

FULL AND TOTAL BECOMES HALF AND MAYBE.

>> REMEMBER, WITH THIS PRESIDENT, YOU NEVER KNOW IF YOU ARE GETTING A DOUBLE ENDORSEMENT.

I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THIS RACE, AND IT WOULD BE A LOT FOR JAY FEELY TO GO OVER AND RUN IN THE 1st DISTRICT.

WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE CD5 RACE IN A BIT.

WHAT IF JAY FEELY GETS THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT IN CD5.

TED: LET'S TALK ABOUT CD5.

WE HAVE THE FIRST ANNOUNCED CANDIDATE, MARK LAMB, NOT THE FIRST CANDIDATE, BUT IMMEDIATE FRONT-RUNNER.

MARK LAMB HERE?

>> I THINK SO.

JUST ON NAME RECOGNITION ALONE.

HE MADE QUITE A NAME FOR HIMSELF AS PINAL COUNTY SHERIFF, IN ADDITION TO BEING THE BIG BORDER SECURITY GUY.

WE HAD HIM MAKING NATIONAL HEADLINES FOR NOT ENFORCING COVID-RELATED THINGS IN 2020.

THIS SOMEONE WHO MADE HIS MARK ON A CERTAIN WING OF THE PARTY.

TED: YEAH, AND HAVE THERE BEEN OTHER CANDIDATES?

DID FEELY ANNOUNCE -- >> GRANTHAM.

TED: GRANTHAM, OKAY.

>> GRANTHAM HAS THE CURSE OF BEING ONE OF THOSE FOLKS WOULD NOT CONSIDER TO BE TURNING POINT ENDORSED.

I WOULD CONSIDER HIM -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CALL IT KIND OF REPUBLICAN.

HE IS A FORMER STATE LAWMAKER, BUT DON'T HAVE MUCH NAME RECOGNITION AND COMPARED TO LAMB, HE DOESN'T REALLY, AND FEELY HAS THE CONNECTION OF BEING WITH A CELEBRITY, WHICH WORKS SOME OF THE TIME.

BASED ON THE COMMENTARY, FEELY IS THE GREATEST THREAT TO LAMB.

>> PEOPLE WORKING ON FEELY'S CAMPAIGN, BEHIND THE SCENES MECHANICS HERE, ARE PEOPLE THAT WORKED WITH TRUMP IN THE PAST IN ARIZONA IN THE 2016 TO 2020 AND THE 2024 ELECTIONS HERE, SO THAT'S WHY I POSE THE QUESTION, WHY WOULD HE MOVE OVER TO CD1 IF HE CAN SECURE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT IN CD5.

I THINK LAMB, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL WITHOUT THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT, YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER HIM THE FAIRER AND HE NEVER WAS CONTESTED.

TED: BUT DID OPPOSE KARI LAKE, AND KARI LAKE WAS TRUMP'S ANOINTED CANDIDATE.

DOES THAT SPILL OVER?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING WITH THAT FACTION OF THE PARTY.

I THINK PEOPLE THINK MAGA, TURNING POINT, ALL THE SAME THING.

NOT ALWAYS.

IN THIS CASE, FORMER SHERIFF LAMB HE MADE ISANNOUNCEMENT ON THE CHARLIE KIRK PODCAST THAT YOU HAVE TURNING POINT BEHIND THEM, AND JAY FEELY AND HE'S FRIENDS WITH THE PRESIDENT, HOW DOES THAT SHAKE OUT?

I DON'T KNOW.

TED: AND THE INCUMBENTS, ANDY BIGGS, WILL HE MAKE AN ENDORSEMENT HERE?

>> I COULD SEE HIM ACTUALLY ENDORSING MARK BECAUSE ANDY BIGGS HAS BECOME VERY MUCH A CHILD OF TURNING POINT, HAS BEEN ALIGNED WITH THEM AND RUNNING AROUND WITH THEM.

I SAW HIM SPEAK WITH THEM.

I COULD SEE IT HAPPENING.

NOT YET.

>> BIGGS IS COUNTING ON HEAVY SUPPORT FROM TURNING POINT IN HIS OWN GUBERNATORIAL RACE BECAUSE ANDY BIGGS HAS NEVER BEEN ONE KNOWN TO RAISE BIG MONEY, SO HE'S GOING TO NEED A LOT OF MONEY IN HIS GOVERNOR'S RACE.

TED: DOES HE HAVE TO WATCH HIMSELF AS FAR AS ENDORSEMENT BECAUSE HE HAS HIS OWN CAMPAIGN TO RUN STATEWIDE?

>> JUMPING INTO ENDORSE ANYBODY WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT SOON.

WE'RE NOT THROUGH 2025, LET ALONE -- SO YOU MAY WANT TO WAIT OUT AND SEE HOW THINGS SHAKE OUT NEXT YEAR, SO YOU'RE NOT ENDORSING AGAINST DONALD TRUMP OR RISK ANGERING HIM BECAUSE WE KNOW HE'S DOUBLE ENDORSING THAT RACE.

YOU DON'T WANT TO COST YOURSELF THAT AS YOU ARE TRYING TO WIN THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR IN ARIZONA.

TED: THERE IS A NEW LABEL FOR THE NO LABELS PARTY, CALLED THE INDEPENDENT PARTY?

>> CORRECT.

THAT WAS FUN TO SAY, FOR SURE, AND NOT CONFUSING FOR ANYONE.

YES, THE NO LABELS PARTY, WHICH KIND OF HAD A PRESENCE IN ARIZONA PREVIOUSLY, HAS REBRANDED ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY, WHICH IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE NOT TO REGISTER WITH A PARTY WHICH IS NO PARTY DESIGNATED, WHICH WE'VE INFORMLY ALWAYS HAVE CALLED INDEPENDENTS.

THIS IS A LITTLE CONFUSING, BUT THIS IS A DIFFERENT POLITICAL PARTY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO BE A PART OF POLITICAL PARTIES.

TED: WAS THIS A FRIENDLY TAKEOVER HERE?

THE NO LABELS PARTY PUSHED OR SHOVED?

>> IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING.

THE NO LABELS PARTY, THERE'S A NATIONAL MOVEMENT CALLED THE NO LABELS PARTY, AND THEY SEPARATED FROM THE STATE NO LABELS PARTY, AND THERE WAS A LAWSUIT.

WE ONLY WANT TO PICK CANDIDATES FOR CERTAIN RACES LIKE PRESIDENT.

AND THE COURT SAID NO.

THAT'S TOO BAD.

YOU CAN'T KEEP PEOPLE OFF THE BALLOT FOR OTHER RACES BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR GUYS'S PARTY.

THEY'VE UNDERGONE A WHOLE REBRANDING AND HAVE A NEW PERSON AT THE TOP, THE PERSON, THE CHAIR IS PAUL JOHNSON, AND ANNOUNCED THIS NEW NAME, THE ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY, WHICH IS SUCH A HEADACHE, I CAN ALREADY TELL YOU AS A RADIO REPORTER, IT'S BAD ENOUGH IN PRINT, SO ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AFFILIATED WITH A PARTY.

TED: FIND A NEW WAY TO CALL PEOPLE WITHOUT AN AFFILIATION.

>> I KIND OF SMELL A LAWSUIT.

YOU ALWAYS SEE LAWSUITS IN THINGS MOVING FORWARD, AND SOMEBODY IS GOING TO MAKE UPSET AND MAKING THE SAME ARGUMENT YOU ARE MAKING RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS CONFUSING THE VOTERS.

THE QUESTION IS, I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO PAUL JOHNSON, WHAT'S THE MOTIVATION FOR CALLING IT THE ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY?

WHAT ARE YOU HOPING TO ACCOMPLISH?

HE'S GOING TO SAY I DON'T KNOW.

>> THEY DID AN INFORMAL SURVEY AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WANTED IT TO BE CALLED, BUT WE GO BACK TO THE POINT OF HOW DOES THIS ACTUALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD, WHEN THERE IS SOMEONE RUNNING UNDER THE ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY LABEL, IS THAT CLEAR TO VOTERS THAT THIS IS NOT A PERSON WHO IS INDEPENDENT?

TED: DOES THE INDEPENDENT PARTY -- NEW INDEPENDENT PARTY -- HAVE A PLATFORM?

>> YES AND NO.

>> JOHNSON'S ARGUMENT IS THIS IS A WAY TO GET AROUND THE IRRITATING SIGNATURE REQUIREMENTS FOR UNAFFILIATED VOTER.

TED: THAT'S THE BIGGIE HERE.

>> THEY HAVE TO GET WAY MORE SIGNATURES THAN A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE TO GET ON THE BALLOT, AND SURPRISE, SURPRISE, IT WAS DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS WHO WROTE THOSE LAWS.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT'S UNFAIR.

THEY'RE UNFAIRLY KEEPING THOSE PEOPLE OUT OF THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

WE'RE GIVING THEM AN AVENUE THROUGH THE PARTY AND WE'RE GOING TO RECRUIT CANDIDATES -- HERE'S THE RUB -- RECRUIT CANDIDATES WHO ARE PERFECTLY IN THE MIDDLE WHO EVERYBODY IS GOING TO LOVE.

THAT IS INTERESTING.

HOW DO YOU GUARANTEE THAT?

WHAT THEY STAND FOR?

IS THAT WHAT INDEPENDENTS WANT?

ET CETERA.

INDEPENDENTS ARE NOT PEOPLE WHO ARE PERFECTLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

INDEPENDENTS ARE EVERYWHERE ON THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

TED: INDEPENDENTS LIKE ONE THING BUT NOT THE OTHER THING, THERE IS BACK AND FORTH.

>> THERE IS NO POLITICAL STAR FOR INDEPENDENTS, NO POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN INDEPENDENTS THEY ARE -- THEY LEFT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT FAR RIGHT ENOUGH FOR THEM.

THERE ARE INDEPENDENTS WHO AREN'T HAPPY FOR DEMOCRATS, AREN'T AS PROGRESSIVE ENOUGH FOR THEM.

I CAN'T STRESS THIS, AND WE GO THROUGH THIS EVERY ELECTION CYCLE, THEY ARE A VERY DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE, NO POLITICAL GUIDANCE BINDING THEM TOGETHER.

TED: CAN YOU FIND A MIDDLE GROUND AMONG ANY VOTER COMPLETELY IN THE MIDDLE OF EVERYTHING?

>> I MEAN, NO.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT GETS FRUSTRATING WITH NATIONAL COVERAGE OF THE ARIZONA INDEPENDENT AND IT'S THIS MAVERICK PERSON, AND IT'S NOT AN INDIVIDUAL PERSON.

LIKE YOU SAID, THEY ARE EXTREMELY RIGHT-WING, EXTREMELY LEFT-WING INDEPENDENTS.

BUT TO GO BACK TO THE ISSUE AT HAND HERE, THE ISSUE BECOMES HOW DO YOU ENFORCE -- THIS IS PART OF THE LAWSUIT, RIGHT?

HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THAT THIS PERSON DOESN'T BE LIKE, WELL, I WANT TO RUN, AND I'M SUPER FAR LEFT AND I'M GOING TO USE THIS PLATFORM TO DO IT, TECHNICALLY YOU CAN.

>> MAKES ME WONDER IF A DEVIOUS PERSON ON THE FAR RIGHT OR LEFT GOING TO FIELD -- I WAS GOING TO SAY WEIRDOS -- FIELD UP PEOPLE TO MUCK UP THE PRIMARIES FROM THE RIGHT OR THE LEFT.

>> COULD THIS BE A SPOILER.

TED: THEY WILL HAVE PRIMARIES.

THEY'RE A PARTY, THEY HAVE PRIMARIES, RIGHT?

>> WHO'S GOING TO BE IN THEM?

YEAH.

>> DEFINE DOWN THE MIDDLE.

DEFINE THAT FOR ME BECAUSE, YES, TEN PEOPLE, POLITICAL QUESTIONS LIKE THAT, YOU GET TEN DIFFERENT ANSWERS.

>> THAT MAKES ME THINK IT'S THE REPUBLICANS EDGED OUT OF TURNING POINT.

TED: CAMRYN, DEFINE SOMETHING FOR ME.

THE ELECTIONS PROCEDURES MANUAL, THE ARIZONA ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT.

>> IT IS A GUIDEBOOK FOR ELECTIONS WORKERS WHICH HAS TO COME OUT EVERY ELECTION CYCLE AND BE APPROVED BY STATE LAWMAKERS AND SERVES AS INSTRUCTIONS AND HAS THE RULE OF LAW, WHICH IS WHY THERE WAS A -- MANY LAWSUITS ABOUT THE PARTICULAR EDITION OF THE EPM THAT CAME OUT BY ADRIAN FONTES, THE SECRETARY OF STATE, WHO'S A DEMOCRAT, BUT THE QUESTION IS, IS THIS PART OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT, WHICH IS HOW ARIZONA STATE AGENCIES AND GOVERNMENT RULES HAVE THE RULE OF LAW, BUT ARE NOT THEMSELVES STATE LAW.

IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

TED: YES.

>> IT'S A LITTLE CONFUSING.

TED: OKAY, BUT THE SUPREME COURT, ALL I KNOW IS THE SUPREME COURTS SIDE WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE ON THIS.

>> AND SAY NO.

TED: YES.

COURT SAID NO, YOU SAY YES.

DENNIS, YOU WANT TO CHIME IN ON THIS?

>> I'M A REPORTER.

[LAUGHTER] >> I LEFT A COPY OF THE PROCEDURE MANUAL IN THE CAR.

THE THING IS THIS IS ALWAYS ONE OF THOSE UNDERGROUND FIGHTS.

HAPPENS EVERY OFFELECTION CYCLE WITH PEOPLE TRYING TO GET AN EDGE SOMEWHERE IN HOW THEY RUN ELECTIONS IN THE CYCLE.

TED: IN A NUTSHELL, THIS IS ABOUT HOW MUCH OF THE STRENGTH OF LAW IT HAS AND HOW WE APPLY THE LAWS IN THE BOOK.

YES, AND I BELIEVE THIS PARTICULAR CHALLENGE IS THE SECRETARY OF STATE DIDN'T GIVE ENOUGH TIME FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.

THERE ARE A BUNCH OF CHALLENGES ON THE ELECTIONS MANUAL?

>> YEAH, THAT WAS THE ONE THEY WERE USING TO GET THE WHOLE THING THROWN OUT.

TED: YEAH.

>> AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS ALWAYS A POLITICAL FOOTBALL, DEPENDING ON WHICH PARTY THE SECRETARY OF STATE IS WITH, THIS BECOMES MORE CONTROVERSIAL.

SO RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE REPUBLICAN GROUPS FIGHTING TO GET THEIR INPUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE INTO THIS ELECTION MANUAL IN A WAY THEY HOPE WILL BENEFIT THEIR CANDIDATE.

TED: HOW BIG A FACTOR IS THIS CONSIDERING HOW IN THE WEEDS IT IS?

IS SOMEONE GOING TO MOW THE GRASS AND ALLOW VOTERS TO FIGURE THIS OUT FOR NEXT YEAR'S RACE FOR SECRETARY OF STATE?

>> I WOULD SAY THIS IS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE ON THE EPM.

THERE ARE SO MANY LAWSUITS ON THE PARTICULAR PORTION OF THE EPM.

DID WE GET ENOUGH TIME ON IT?

HOW POWERFUL IS IT?

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROCEDURES MANUAL GOING FORWARD.

IT'S A MATTER OF WHAT THE COURT ALLOWS US TO PUT INTO IT.

TED: THE ELECTIONS PROCEDURE MANUAL.

THIS WAS NEVER A BIG DEAL.

>> NEVER USED TO BE A BIG DEAL.

JOKE OR LAMENTED, DEPENDING ON WHAT MOOD I'M IN.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO KNOW GRANULAR DETAIL EVERYTHING ABOUT ELECTIONS UNTIL A FEW CYCLES AGO, AND WE'VE ALL HAD TO LEARN EVERYTHING ABOUT ELECTIONS, INCLUDING PAYING MORE ATTENTION TO THE ELECTIONS PROCEDURE MANUAL, CAMRYN SUMMED IT UP PERFECTLY, IT'S A POLITICAL FOOTBALL, AND DEPENDS WHO IS IN CHARGE, WHO IS IN THE OFFICE, AND YOU KNOW YOU GOT DEMOCRAT ADRIAN FONTES THERE, SO, OF COURSE, REPUBLICANS ARE FINDING CHALLENGE AFTER CHALLENGE IN THIS AS THEY MOVE FORWARD AND TRY TO GET AN ADVANTAGE OR SEE THEY CAN GET AN ADVANTAGE HEADING INTO THE ELECTION YEAR.

TED: WE'LL STOP IT RIGHT THERE.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.