♪♪ >> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

A LOOK AT THE TOP STORIES, INCLUDING THE SWEARING IN OF CONGRESSWOMAN ADELITA GRIJALVA SEVEN WEEKS AFTER SHE WAS ELECTED TO CONGRESS.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

>> MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTORS TO PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR TELEVISION STATION.

>> Ted: GOOD EVENING, WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON, I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US RAN HANSEN FROM THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC AND AZCENTRAL.COM, JIM SMALL AND JEREMY DUDA.

RON, WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU, THE LONG WAIT IS OVER AND ADELITA GRIJALVA IS NOW CONGRESSWOMAN ADELITA GRIJALVA.

>> YEAH, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT JUST, IT FELT LIKE IT WAS HUNG UP FOREVER.

THERE WAS LITIGATION AROUND THIS, CERTAINLY A LOT OF HEATED RHETORIC, BUT IN THE END, THE END OF THE SHUTDOWN SORT OF PRECIPITATED WHAT WE HAD ALL EXPECTED FOR A WHILE NOW.

SHE WENT IN AND OBVIOUSLY MADE WAVES JUST WITH WHAT SEEMED TO BE A FAIRLY UNPLEASANT INTRODUCTION TO THE SPEAKER, WHO SHE HAD NOT SPOKEN WITH PREVIOUSLY AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE UNLEASHING OF THE EPSTEIN FILES ONCE AGAIN.

>> Ted: YEAH, AND THE EPSTEIN FILES, WE'LL GET INTO THAT LATER ON IN THE PROGRAM.

OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS A FACTOR HERE, MANY THOUGHT IT WAS A FACTOR HERE AND SHE LOST NO TIME, WHERE IS THAT PETITION, I'M SIGNING IT NOW.

>> YEAH, YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSE, HASN'T BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR TWO MONTHS AND, YOU KNOW, WAY BACK IN AUGUST, THEY-- IT WENT TO RECESS EARLY, TO, YOU KNOW, TRY TO SNUFF OUT A VOTE ON PETITION TO RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT GOING ON AND A LOT OF EXCUSES, WHY SHE WASN'T SWORN IN, A LOT OF DEFLECTION AWAY FROM THE EPSTEIN FILES, BUT IT'S HARD TO SEE THAT THAT'S THE SUN AROUND WHICH ALL OF THESE THINGS WERE ORBITING AND OF COURSE, ADELITA GRIJALVA HAS BEEN MAKING WAVES ABOUT THAT FOR WEEKS NOW, THAT, HEY, LOOK, I'M GOING TO SIGN THIS AND THIS IS WHY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SWEAR ME IN.

OBVIOUSLY, WITH THE SHUTDOWN OVER, I THINK THAT WAS THE LAST OF THE FLIMSY EXCUSES FOR WHY SHE WASN'T BEING SWORN IN AND THEY REALLY KIND OF HAD TO SHOW UP THERE AND DO THAT, AS WE SAW ON THE INTRO THERE, THE PAINED SMILE, GRIP AND GRIN, AND MOVING ALONG WITH TWO PEOPLE CLEARLY WHO AREN'T ENAMOURED WITH EACH OTHER AND NOW SHE'S DONE AND SHE'S IN.

>> WHEN SHE WAS SPEAKING AFTER THE SWEARING IN AND WHEN SHE WAS ON THE HOUSE FLOOR, AND THERE WERE CHANTS, ADELITA, ADELITA.

IF YOU'D SWORN HER IN, IT WOULDN'T MADE SUCH A BIG DEAL OF THIS PERSON, SHE'S A DAUGHTER OF A LONGSTANDING MEMBER, BUT STILL IN ALL, IT SEEMED LIKE A BIG DEAL MADE OUT OF SOMETHING THAT REPUBLICANS DIDN'T NECESSARILY NEED TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OF.

>> THIS IS USUALLY A PRO FORMA PROCESS.

I CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN THE WINNER OF A HOUSE SPECIAL ELECTION WAS GOING TO BE SWORN IN, DEBBIE LESKO OR RON BARBER WHO ANYONE WHO HAS COME TO OFFICE THIS WAY.

BUT BECAUSE OF THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE IN THE HOUSE AND FOR CONGRESSWOMAN GRIJALVA, THIS MAY BE A HIGH POINT OF YOUR CAREER.

HOW OFTEN DO YOU GET TO BE THE DECIDING VOTE ON ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, A CHAMBER OF 435, SHE GETS THE SECOND SHE'S SWORN IN, SHE'S THE DECIDING VOTE 218th SIGNATURE ON THIS PETITION.

SO THAT'S KIND OF PERHAPS ONE OF THE MOST MEMORABLE MOMENT OF HER CAREER, EVEN IF SHE'S THERE AS LONG AS HER FATHER WAS.

>> Ted: HOW MANY TIMES DOES CNN BREAK AWAY FROM COVERAGE TO SEE THE SWEARING IN OF A REPRESENTATIVE ON CAPITOL HILL?

IS SHE AN INSTANT STAR BECAUSE OF ALL OF THIS?

>> SHE CERTAINLY IS ON THE LEFT.

SHE HAS COME TO PERSONIFY, I THINK, FOR DEMOCRATS A LOT OF THE FRUSTRATION THAT THEY HAVE FELT BOTH WITH ELECTIONS, BUT ALSO, WITH THEIR AGENDA.

AND I THINK THAT SHE SORT OF HAS BECOME THE WAY FOR THEM TO SEE A WAY FORWARD, TO GET POINTS ON THE BOARD.

YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT STANDS OUT TO ME IS THAT IF THINGS HAVE BEEN REVERSED SLIGHTLY IN CHRONOLOGY, YOU WOULD HAVE HAD HER SWORN IN AND YOU WOULD HAVE HAD PRESUMABLY THE RELEASE OF THE EPSTEIN FILE DOCUMENTS THAT WE SAW SHORTLY THERE AFTER AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A SHUTDOWN.

INSTEAD IT'S THE OPPOSITE AND I THINK THAT THAT PROBABLY FEELS LIKE A GUT PUNCH TO THE RIGHT.

>> Ted: AND JIM, SAME QUESTION TO YOU, DOES THIS MAKE -- THIS MAKES HER A PRETTY BIG NAME FROM DAY ONE.

>> SHE COMES IN NOW AFTER SEVEN WEEKS WITH A HIGHER PROFILE THAN SHE HAD BEFORE BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING THAT WENT ON.

YOU KNOW, SHE REPRESENTS A SOLIDLY BLUE DISTRICT, THE DISTRICT, HER FATHER, YOU KNOW, WAS ELECTED TO REPRESENT FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A -- IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE KIND OF WHERE SHE GOES FROM HERE.

I MEAN, I DO THINK THAT THIS MIGHT BE THE HIGH POINT FOR HER.

YOU KIND OF COME IN, CRESTING THIS WAVE OF SUPPORT AND KIND OF NOTORIETY THAT YOU WEREN'T NECESSARILY GOING OUT TO SEEK, BUT THAT WAS KIND OF THRUST ON YOU BY THE SITUATION AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER SHE'S GOING TO CAPITALIZE IT OR HOW HER AND, YOU KNOW, SHE AND THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT ARE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD FROM HERE.

>> SHE CERTAINLY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY IF SHE CAN FIND A WAY TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP AND CONTINUE THAT MOMENTUM.

SHE'S GOTTEN NATIONAL PRESS IN A WAY THAT PROBABLY NONE.

OTHER EIGHT MEMBERS OF OUR HOUSE DELEGATION HAVE.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW POLITICS IN OTHER STATES THEY PROBABLY DON'T KNOW WHO SCHWEIKER OR POMDAY OR-- ARE, BUT THEY KNOW WHO ADELITA GRIJALVA IS.

>> Ted: AND WE KNOW WHO ANDY BIGGS AND HE IS A CONGRESSMAN WHO WANTS TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

I CAN'T THINK OF ANYONE WHO IS MORE SUPPORTIVE OF DONALD TRUMP.

THEY'RE OUT THERE IN CAPITOL HILL, HARD TO THINK.

HE'S NOW SAYING, I'M GOING TO VOTE TO RELEASE THOSE FILES.

>> WHAT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE HERE IS THAT ANDY BIGGS, WHO YOU'RE CORRECT, IS ONE OF THE MOST STAUNCH PRO-TRUMP SUPPORTERS THERE IS ON CAPITOL HILL.

I THINK IT'S CLEAR, IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, HE DID KNOW THE JOIN THE PETITION TO RELEASE THESE DOCUMENTS WHEN IT WAS STILL SOMETHING THAT WAS UP IN THE AIR.

IT HAD THE BAREST NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS IT COULD MUSTER TO THEN ALLOW GRIJALVA TO GET IT OVER THAT THRESHOLD ONCE IT SURPASSES THAT, NOW, HE IS SUPPORTIVE OF THIS MEASURE.

AND I THINK YOU'RE SEEING SOME OF AT THAT FROM OTHER REPUBLICANS AS WELL.

>> Ted: WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT HE CAME OUT NOW AND SAID THAT?

>> I WAS.

I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY SURPRISING BECAUSE OF WHO ANDY BIGGS IS AND HIS FORMER LEADER OF THE HOUSE, FREEDOM CAUCUS HAS ABSOLUTELY BEEN ONE OF TRUMP'S STAUNCHEST ALLIES AND HEAD TO THE MATS TO DEFEND DONALD TRUMP'S BEHAVIORS AND STATEMENTS OVER THE PAST DECADE IN A WAY THAT FEW OTHERS HAVE.

BUT I DO THINK THAT THIS IS-- IT'S TELLING THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ANDY BIGGS, ON THE VOTE FOR THIS.

I THINK IT'S A SIGNAL AND WE'RE ALREADY START TO GO SEE SIGNS OF IT THAT REPUBLICANS UP AND DOWN THAT CONFERENCE ARE GOING TO START SAYING, I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS.

THEY'RE HEARING FROM THEIR CONSTITUENTS WHO IN A LOT OF CASES ARE REALLY, REALLY MAD AND THEY WANT TO SEE THIS BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH ATTENTION PAID TO THE EPSTEIN FILES DURING THE CAMPAIGN AND OVER THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS THAT IT'S BECOME SOMETHING OF, YOU KNOW, I THINK CORE BELIEF AMONG CERTAIN REPUBLICANS AND THE MAGA CROWD IN GENERAL THAT THESE NEED TO BE RELEASED AND FIND OUT WHO THE PEOPLE ARE INVOLVED HERE AND THAT WAY THEY CAN BE SHUNNED AND OSTRACIZED AND SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE, I THINK, DON'T UNDERSTAND, MAYBE DON'T PERHAPS APPRECIATE JUST HOW ENTWINED DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO BE IN THIS AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM MORE OF A PRINCIPLED STANDPOINT THAN A POLITICAL ONE.

>> Ted: AND YOU MENTIONED GOING TO THE MAT FOR DONALD TRUMP.

WILL PRESIDENT TRUMP PULL THE MAT OUT OF ANDY BIGGS?

HE'S FULL-THROATED SUPPORT FOR ANDY BIGGS FOR GOVERNOR.

IS THAT GOING TO STICK?

>> I THINK IT PROBABLY WILL AND BIGGS HAS BEEN-- BIGGS HAS GONE AGAINST THE PRESIDENT THINGS IN THE PAST.

THEY HAVE NOT-- DESPITE HOW MUCH MAGA STREET CRED HE HAS AND THEY HAVE CLASHED ON ISSUES IN THE PAST AND THE PRESIDENT IS SUPPORTIVE.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE OTHER REPUBLICANS STARTING TO SAY MENTION THAT, I HAD A, WE'RE GOING TO VOTE THE OTHER WAY ON THIS, THEY ARE HERE AND THIS IS AN ISSUE WHERE EVEN THE MAGA BASE HAS DIFFERED WITH THE PRESIDENT AND THE FOLKS THE PAST FIVE YEARS HAVE BEEN REALLY THE MOST VOCAL ABOUT WANT TO GO RELEASE THESE, SO, I THINK IT WOULD BE KIND OF DIFFICULT FOR, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT TO DO THAT AND PLUS I THINK WE'LL PROBABLY SEE PRESSURE ON ANDY BIG'S PRIMARY OPPONENTS HERE, DAVID SCHWEIKER, CONGRESSMAN, MAKE A DECISION HOW HE'S GOING TO VOTE ON THIS AND KAREN TAYLOR DOESN'T HAVE-- AND WANTS TO KNOW HER OPINION ON THAT AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, IF YOU GET THE NOMINATION, I DON'T KNOW THAT VOTING AGAINST -- VOTING FOR THIS WILL HURT YOU IN THE PRIMARY BECAUSE EVEN A LOT OF MAGA VOTERS SUPPORT THIS AND THEN IN THE GENERAL ELECTION, IF YOU GET THAT FAR VOTING AGAINST IT, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE USED.

>> Ted: BUT RON, THE PRESIDENT SAID THE FILES ARE A HOAX, A DEMOCRATIC HOAX AND ONLY A VERY BAD OR A STUPID REPUBLICAN WOULD FALL INTO THAT TRAP.

>> THAT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE OF AN ENDORSEMENT, IF YOU ASK ME.

>> CLEARLY THE PRESIDENT DOES NOT WANT THIS INFORMATION OUT THERE.

THAT'S BEEN EVIDENT FOR SOME TIME NOW.

I THINK THOUGH THAT THE CENTER OF GRAVITY ON THIS ISSUE HAS CLEARLY SHIFTED AWAY FROM WHERE THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN ON THIS, AND ANDY BIGGS CAN SEE THAT THE PUBLIC SUPPORT IS NOT THERE, BUT I THINK POLITICALLY, ALSO, THAT IT'S PROBABLY MORE HAZARDOUS FOR SOMEONE LIKE KAREN TAYLOR ROBESON TO TAKE A POSITION TO GO AGAINST THE PRESIDENT THAN IT IS FOR HIMSELF.

HE HAS SUCH A LONG RECORD OF BEING A TRUMP ALLY, VERY LENGTHY CONGRESSIONAL VOTING RECORD THAT HE CAN POINT TO.

HE HAS HIS RECORD IN THE STATE HOUSE AS WELL WHERE HE HAS BEEN AN ARCH CONSERVATIVE.

I THINK THAT HE FEELS LIKE THIS IS A PLACE WHERE HE HAS A LITTLE BIT MORE SPACE IF OTHERS CARE TO JOIN HIM.

HE WILL HAVE LOST NOTHING RELATIVE TO HIS OPPONENTS AND IF THEY STAND OUT.

THEY'RE THE ONES WHO WILL BE HAVING THE TALK.

>> DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT, IMPACT ON PRIMARY AND MAYBE GENERAL?

>> YEAH, I DO.

I THINK IT'S -- IT'S ONLY GOING TO HELP AND JUST BECAUSE OF, BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE MADE SUCH HAY OVER THE ACCEPT STEEN FILES OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, AND SOME OF IT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS ANALYSIS THAT I SAW TODAY OF THESE, ON, 2600 E-MAILS RELEASED AND I THINK THAT TRUMP IS MENTIONED IN 2000 OF THEM.

HIS NAME IS IN ACTUALLY 2000 E-MAILS, THAT'S A DEPTH OF INVOLVEMENT I DON'T THINK THAT IS, IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW, THAT THE LEFT IS PUSHING FOR.

I THINK THAT THE LEFT UNDERSTANDS THAT AND THAT'S WHY THEY'VE JUMPED ONTO THE RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES BAND WAGON.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THE RIGHT IS ALL THE WAY THERE YET.

IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS ONCE THAT STARTS TO BREAK THROUGH SOME OF THAT RIGHT WING MEDIA ECO SPHERE IF IT STARTS TO GET IN THERE.

IF FOX NEWS DECIDES TO COVER THIS SERIOUSLY AND NEWS MAX AND SOME OF THE ONLINE CHANNELS DECIDE TO.

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND HOW IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE TENOR OF THE DEBATE HERE.

>> Ted: PLEASE.

>> AND WHAT HAPPENED IN THE SENATE, THE BIGGER QUESTION.

WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE HOUSE, WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THE HOUSE FOR SEVEN WEEKS WHILEWAY WAITED FOR ADELITA GRIJALVA TO GET SWORN IN.

AND TO THE SENATE, THAT'S MUCH MORE UNCERTAIN AND MUCH MORE PRESSURE.

I THINK THAT'S PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOING TO RESERVE THE REAL PRESSURE ON REPUBLICANS, THAT'S WHERE THIS THINGS GETS STOPPED IN ITS TRACKS.

>> Ted: IF IT DOESN'T GET STOPPED IN ITS TRACKS, OBVIOUSLY A VETO WOULD BE PRETTY MUCH A CERTAINTY.

IS THERE ENOUGH HERE TO OVERRIDE A VETO?

>> I DON'T SEE THAT RIGHT NOW AND I'M WITH JEREMY AS FAR AS ITS FATE IN THE SENATE.

I THINK IT'S LESS THAN CLEAR FOR A THIRD OF THE CHAMBER THAT WON'T FACE VOTERS UNTIL AS LATE AS 2030, THAT THIS ISSUE WILL HOLD THEIR ATTENTION IN A WAY THAT THEY FEEL COMPELLED TO DO ONE THING OR ANOTHER.

I THINK THAT THE GREAT RISK FOR ALL RIGHT NOW IS HOW BAD IS THE EVIDENCE OR THE IMPLICATIONS DOES THIS GET.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, IS THIS A TEMPEST INSIDE THE BELTWAY?

IS IT INCREASINGLY CREEPING PAST WASHINGTON?

>> NO, I THINK THIS IS DEFINITELY A STORY A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO I THINK THAT THE PUBLIC INTEREST IS REAL AND GROWING AND AGAIN, I THINK THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN A LATE BLOT SOMING MATTER.

WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT THE EPSTEIN ALLEGATIONS FOR MANY YEARS NOW, BUT IT KIND OF WENT DORMANT, ESPECIALLY AFTER HIS SUICIDE.

THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, HOW BAD WILL IT BE FOR THIS PRESIDENT NOW AND HIS BEHAVIOR HAS, I THINK, RATCHETED UP, EVEN AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE WITH HIM, THIS IS SOMETHING THEY CAN'T JUST TURN A BLIND EYE TO AND AS THEY ABANDON HIM, I THINK A LOT OF OTHERS ARE GOING TO SAY, WE WANT ANSWERS, TOO.

>> SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL STICK EVEN COME NEXT YEAR?

>> I THINK THAT WE'LL STILL BE ARGUING ABOUT THIS, THERE WILL STILL BE A FIGHT ABOUT THIS.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF THE SAME ARGUMENTS HAPPENING MAYBE IN A DIFFERENT FORUM AND DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT BECAUSE THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THESE FILES ACTUALLY GET RELEASED, THAT TRUMP AUTHORIZES IT, SEEMS TO BE NEAR ZERO AND IF AND WHEN HE DOES VETO IT, IT SEEMS UNLIKELY, I AGREE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY THAT THEY NEED TO OVERRIDE A VETO.

THAT'S A DIFFICULT THING TO DO IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

I THINK THAT THIS, REPUBLICANS GOING AGAINST TRUMP IS A PARTICULARLY DIFFICULT HILL TO CLIMB.

SO, THIS IS GOING TO BE A THING THAT'S GOING TO BE TALKED ABOUT AND I THINK THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE MORE LEAKS AND MORE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE PUT OUT THERE IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE AND SO, FAR EVERY TIME THAT'S HAPPENED I THINK WE'VE SEEN -- THE NEWS HAS NEVER GOTTEN BETTER FOR DONALD TRUMP WITH EVERY SINGLE THING, EVERY TRANSCRIPT AND DOCUMENT THAT'S RELEASED HERE AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT TREND IS GOING TO CHANGE.

>> SURE, I THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO MAKE AS MUCH HAY AS THEY CAN.

THEY'RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO MAKE SURE THIS IS STILL PART OF THE PUBLIC DISCOURSE NEXT YEAR AND THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT.

AS RON MENTIONED WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT THE FEELS FOR YEARS AND WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL RECENTLY THAT DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T WANT THEM OUT.

>> Ted: IT LOOKS LIKE BOTH DEMOCRATIC SENATORS VOTED AGAINST THE REOPENING OF THE GOVERNMENT.

RAMIFICATIONS THERE, OBVIOUSLY NEITHER ONE UP FOR ELECTION ANYTIME SOON, BUT, I MEAN, REOPENING THE GOVERNMENT YEA OR NAY, AND THEY SAID UNLESS YOU EXTEND THE SUBSIDIES, NAY.

>> THAT'S A LINE IN THE SAND THAT I THINK IS GOING TO BE POPULAR WITH A LOT, POPULAR WITH THEIR BASES.

MARK KELLY AND RUBEN GALLEGO TRACK TO THE CENTER AND AS SENATOR GALLEGO'S PREDECESSOR LEARNED, IF THIS IS POPULAR WITH THE BASE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT VOTING AGAINST IT WILL OFFEND THE GENERAL PUBLIC, THAT PEOPLE WILL CARE, CONSIDERING WHAT'S AT STAKE, THE ACA SUBSIDIES THAT ARE GOING TO COST PEOPLE A LOT OF MONEY IN THEORY, GOING TO HAVE A VOTE ON EXTENDING THESE, EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS IT'S HARD TO SEE REPUBLICANS VOTING TO DO THIS.

WHAT WE'LL BE HEARING ABOUT NEXT YEAR, HOW MUCH MONEY, A LOT OF ARIZONIANS AND A LOT OF AMERICANS ARE PAYING FOR THIS.

>> Ted: WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, THEIR POSITIONS WITH THIS VOTE.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT WE SAW WAS JUST ENOUGH DEMOCRATS PEEL OFF TO MAKE A DEAL HAPPEN AND IN A SENSE, IT ALLOWS THE REST OF THE DEMOCRATS TO HOLD TO A PRINCIPLED POSITION AS THEY SEE IT, THAT THEY GET TO RAIL AGAINST AN ARRANGEMENT THAT THEY DON'T LIKE, BUT THAT THEIR PARTY HAS DEFUSED AS AN ISSUE THAT WOULD HAVE LINGERED TO THE POINT THAT THE PUBLIC SHIFTS AGAINST THE REPUBLICANS AND THE PRESIDENT ON AN ANTI-INCUMBENT.

>> Ted: ARE REPUBLICANS GOING TO KEEP THE PLEDGE HERE, HOLD A VOTE ON THESE SUBSIDIES.

>> SURE.

>> Ted: THAT'S PART OF THE DEAL.

>> SURE.

YOU KNOW, I -- IF THEY DO, IF THEY DON'T, DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING, DOESN'T MATTER.

THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE ON IT IN THE SENATE AND IF IT PASSES IN THE SENATE IT'S GOING TO GO TO THE HOUSE AND IT'S GOING TO DIE, NEVER GET HEARD AND NEVER GO UP FOR A VOTE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AT ALL.

THE DIFFERENCE IT WILL MUGGY MAKE IN THE SENATE, REPUBLICANS HAVE TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS.

THAT'S THE UTILITY THAT THE DEMOCRATS GOT OUT OF THIS.

THEY DIDN'T GET A DEAL.

MOST DEMOCRATS ARE FURIOUS.

E-MAILS COMING OUT FROM DEMOCRATIC ORGANIZATIONS AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES, BASICALLY ACCUSING THOSE SEVEN DEMOCRATS AND ONE INDEPENDENT, ANGUS KING, OF, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY BETRAYING THE PARTY, BETRAYING THE LIBERAL IDEALS BEHIND ALL OF THIS.

IT'S PRETTY STUNNING, AND I THINK IT'S TELLING THAT ALL OF THOSE SEVEN OR EIGHT ARE NOT UP FOR ELECTION THIS UPCOMING CYCLE.

EITHER RETIRING OR UP IN '28 OR UP IN '30.

TO RON'S POINT, IT WAS BY DESIGN AND GIVES EVERYONE ELSE COVER TO STAND BACK AND VOTE IN A PRINCIPLED WAY AND HOLD OUT FOR THE THINGS THAT THEY SAID THAT THE ENTIRE SHUTDOWN WAS ABOUT AND THAT THOSE SEVEN, I GUESS, DECIDED MAYBE IT WASN'T ABOUT.

>> Ted: WITH THAT IN MIND, JEREMY, WINNERS AND LOSERS OF THE SHUTDOWN, POLITICAL?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO SAY.

I THINK MOST VOTERS PROBABLY JUST WANTED THIS TO END.

I MEAN, THE FOLKS WHO ARE RELYING ON THOSE, YOU KNOW, HEALTH CARE SUBSIDIES, THIS IS GOING TO MATTER TO THEM.

I THINK THAT EVERYONE GAINS A LITTLE BIT BY THIS NOT DRAGGING THROUGH THANKSGIVING.

YOU HAVE THE AIRPORT ISSUES THAT WE'VE BEEN SEEING.

IF YOU HAVE THAT FOR THE THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE PRETTY ANGRY ABOUT THAT AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE WANTS TO RISK THAT THEY'RE THE ONES THAT HAVE THAT BLAMED ON THEM.

>> Ted: WINNERS AND LOSERS?

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

>> I DON'T SEE ANY WINNERS, TO BE CLEAR.

CLOSEST YOU GET TO A WIN FOR THE DEMOCRATS IS DICK DURBIN, SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS SAID, THEY'VE PUT THIS INSURANCE SUBSIDIES ISSUE ON THE RADAR FOR A LOT OF FOLKS, SO IT GOES FROM ZERO TO A FRONT BURNER ISSUE.

CLEARLY THE BASE IS UPSET.

FOR THE REPUBLICANS THEY DIDN'T GET A HECK OF A LOT OUT OF THIS EITHER.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A PRESSURE VOTE IN THE SENATOR, PROBABLY NOT A VOTE IN THE HOUSE AS JIM HAD SAID AND YOU KNOW, THAT PUTS PUTS SOMEBODY LIKE JUAN ON THE HOT SEAT, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ASKING HIM, HEY, WHAT ABOUT THIS DEAL?

AND YOU KNOW, WHAT IS HE DOING TO BRING THIS ABOUT.

>> Ted: YEAH, AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE A WIN FOR THE DEMOCRATS IN THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT IT ON BALANCE, I THINK THE DEMOCRATS COME OUT AHEAD ON THE SHUTDOWN AND PUBLIC POLLING SEEMS TO BEAR THAT OUT, MOST VOTERS ARE BLAMING DONALD TRUMP AND BLAMING REPUBLICANS FOR WHAT WAS GOING ON.

REPUBLICANS CONTROL ALL OF THE GOVERNMENT AND THE SHUTDOWN HAPPENED AND IT'S DRUG ON FOR WEEKS.

PEOPLE MISSED OUT ON MONEY FOR FOOD SUBSIDIES, WE'VE HAD THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL ISSUES.

AND THERE'S JUST BEEN SO MUCH, I DON'T THINK ANY OF IT HAS WORKED OUT IN FAVOR OF REPUBLICANS.

I DON'T KNOW THAT DEMOCRATS NECESSARILY WON ANYTHING EITHER OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO PAINT REPUBLICANS, YOU KNOW, IN THIS LIGHT AND YOU KNOW, HAVE ANOTHER THING TO, YOU KNOW, TO LOB AT THEM IN THE UPCOMING CAMPAIGN.

>> Ted: ALL RIGHT.

JEREMY, WHAT IS SUNSHINE RESIDENTIAL HOMES AND WHY ARE WE SO INTERESTED IN WHERE THEY'RE SPENDING THEIR MONEY?

>> BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN SPENDING QUITE A LOT OF MONEY WITH GOVERNOR KATIE HOBBS AND THE PARTY AND CONVERSELY SPENDING A LOT WITH THEM.

THIS CAME UP ARIZONA REPUBLICAN STACY UNCOVERED THIS LAST YEAR THAT SUNSHINE HAS A CONTRACT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF CHILD SAFETY FOR GROUP HOMES, ABOUT 300 BEDS AND ASKED FOR A RATE INCREASE, HEY, WE'RE GOING BROKE HERE, WE'RE IN THE RED, NEED A RATE INCREASE AND IT HAD BEEN DENIED AND AFTER THEY'D GIVEN $100,000 TO GOVERNOR HOBBS' INAUGURAL COMMITTEE AND COME BACK AND SAY, HEY, MAYBE YOU WANT TO RECONSIDER THAT AND KATIE HOBBS DIRECTOR SAYS, HEY, MAYBE WE DO WANT TO RECONSIDER THAT, SO THEY GAVE THAT AND CAME OUT THEY'D GIVEN $100,000 TO THE GOVERNOR'S COMMITTEE AND THEY HAD GIVEN 2 OR $300,000 TO THE ARIZONA PARTY AND MAKES EVERYONE LOOK PRETTY GOOD BAD.

>> Ted: AS JEREMY MENTIONED, ON HARD FINANCIAL TIMES AND STACY KIND OF DID SOME DIGGING, NOT SO HARD FINANCIAL TIMES AT ALL.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT JUST FROM AFAR, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE PUBLIC HATES.

THEY SEE WHAT, AS JEREMY SAID, LOOKS LIKE PAY FOR PLAY.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS PRESENTED ONE WAY AND THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE TO WAIT LONG TO FIND OUT THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE TO IT AND THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT GOVERNOR HOBBS REALLY DIDN'T NEED RIGHT NOW, HEADING INTO AN ELECTION YEAR, IS TO HAVE THIS KIND OF ISSUE THAT IS LEGITIMATELY QUESTIONABLE, THAT WHY ARE WE SEEING THIS URGENCY TO MAKE A DEAL ON SOMETHING THAT IS NOT AS PREVENTIVE.

>> Ted: DCS APPROVING THIS DEAL DESPITE A SHORTFALL, AND DESPITE A PLAN TO GET RID OF TRANSITION, I SHOULD SAY, AWAY FROM THESE KINDS OF HOMES.

THAT'S ALL GONE AND IN COMES SUNSHINE RESIDENTS, IF YOU DON'T WORK WITH US, WE'LL WORK WITH THE FED.

>> AND SOME PROVIDER REQUESTED RATE INCREASES AND DENIED.

AND YOU HAD FOLKS, CAREER EMPLOYEES, BUREAUCRATS IN THE ADMINISTRATION WITHIN THE AGENCY WHO RAISED RED FLAGS, HEY, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

THIS SEEMS HINKY.

MAYBE WE SHOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT THIS AND REEVALUATE IT, ALL OF THAT KIND OF FEEDS INTO THIS IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, WHY WAS THIS DECISION MADE AND WAS THIS MADE FOR POLITICS AND WAS THIS SOMETHING THAT THE ADMINISTRATION FROM ON HIGH CAME DOWN TO THE AGENCY AND SAID, YOU NEED TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

>> WHAT WE LEARNED THIS WEEK, SOME RECORDS THE REPUBLICAN, ADDITIONAL RECORDS THEY UNCOVERED, THE FOLKS INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS WERE VERY AWARE OF THESE CONTRIBUTIONS HOW MUCH MONEY HAD GONE, YOU KNOW, TO THE GOVERNOR AND TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THIS WAS A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION IN THEIR E-MAILS.

WHAT WE DO NOT KNOW, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT GOVERNOR HOBBS OR MEMBERS OF HER ADMINISTRATION HAD PUT ANY PRESSURE ON ANYONE, ANY COMMUNICATION, IMPLICATING THEN IN THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS.

BUT AS RON SAID THE APPEARANCE ALONE AND THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT THE PUBLIC HATES, IT LOOKS LIKE FAVORITISM, BECAUSE OF WHO THE MONEY WENT TO.

IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR NEXT YEAR, AND THE GOVERNOR IS TO UP REELECTION, AND UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE GOVERNOR, THE HOUSE SPEAKER SAID WE WILL HAVE A COMMITTEE AND AN INVESTIGATION AND WE ARE GOING TO LOOK INTO THIS AND I'M GUESSING THAT INVESTIGATION IS GOING TO KEEP GOING THROUGH THE ELECTION.

>> I KNOW THE E-MAILS I GOT FROM THE HOUSE AND SENATE, THEY BOTH USED PAY FOR PLAY.

AND PROBABLY HOW THEY'RE DEFINING IT AND PROBABLY HOW IT'S GOING TO BE DEFINED.

>> IF THE HOUSE TAKES ACTION, THEY WILL CERTAINLY RESPOND ACCORDINGLY ON THAT.

THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP LEGISLATURE IS VERY HAPPY TO HAVE THIS IN FRONT OF THEM AND NOTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED, NOTHING THAT WE KNOW AT THIS POINT HAS REALLY DONE ANYTHING TO CREDIBLY PUT THIS ISSUE BEHIND THE GOVERNOR AS SHE HEADS INTO WHAT WE HAVE ALWAYS EXPECTED TO BE A DIFFICULT REELECTION.

>> Ted: AND YOU KNOW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS LOOKING INTO THIS.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL LOOKING INTO THIS IS INTERESTING, SHE'S GOT AN ELECTION NEXT YEAR.

I IMAGINE HOW SHE HANDLES THIS WILL BE CERTAINLY CATCHING THE ATTENTION OF WARREN PETERS.

>> SHE DOES, AND SHE'S OBVIOUSLY IN A POLITICALLY IN AN INTERESTING PLACE.

LIKE YOU SAID WARREN PETERSON, THE REPUBLICAN SENATE PRESIDENT IS RUNNING TO UNSEAT HER AND WE'LL SEE IF HE GETS THROUGH THE PRIMARY OR NOT AND ULTIMATELY IS HER OPPONENT AND ULTIMATELY APPLYING PRESSURE FROM THAT SIDE AND FELLOW DEMOCRAT, ALTHOUGH, THE DEMOCRAT THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE TWO LADIES WHO I DON'T THINK GET ALONG TERRIBLY WELL, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF CONFLICT BETWEEN THOSE TWO OFFICES OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

SO, IT WILL DEFINITELY BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW CHRIS MAY HANDLES IT, POLITICALLY SPEAKING I THINK IT SEEMS MORE OF A STRAIGHT FORWARD PATH FOR RACHEL MITCHELL AT THE COUNTY LEVEL.

ALTHOUGH WHETHER THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS THE RIGHT VENUE FOR THIS, I THINK, REMAINS TO BE SEEN IN TERMS OF INVESTIGATING SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> Ted: RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

ON A SCALE OF 1-10, ONE MEANING AT NOT AT ALL.

AND NEXT YEAR, HOW BIG OF A FACTOR WOULD THIS BE IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE?

>> I THINK WE'LL HEAR ABOUT IT CONS CONSTANTLY.

NO MATTER WHAT THEY FIND, LOTS OF TV.

>> Ted: THAT SOUNDS LIKE A SEVEN?

>> A SEVEN-- >> GIVE ME A NUMBER, RON?

>> I THINK AN EIGHT.

>> Ted: SO IT WILL BE AROUND.

THE MOST SUBSTANTIVE THING REPUBLICANS CAN SAY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT KATIE HOBBS OWNS UNTO HERSELF.

>> Ted: JIM, GIVE ME A NUMBER?

>> INTERESTING, SEVEN OR EIGHT.

WE'LL SEE, THAT NUMBER MIGHT CHANGE AND COOL DOWN, BUT DEPENDING WHAT THE INVESTIGATIONS FIND OR WHAT MORE, AS THE REPUBLICANS, CONTINUE TO DIG INTO THIS AND OTHER MEDIA WILL, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO FIND AND IF THAT NUMBER GOES HIGHER.

>> Ted: ALL RIGHT, PANEL, THAT'S IT.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

GOOD STUFF, WE APPRECIATE IT.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.