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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING PRESIDENT TRUMP SUGGESTING THAT SENATOR MARK KELLY SHOULD BE TRIED FOR SEDITIOUS CRIMES PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.

JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

AND JOINING US TONIGHT, WAYNE SCHUTSKY FROM KJZZ RADIO.

CAMRYN SANCHEZ ALSO FROM KJZZ, AND DENNIS WELCH FROM CBS 5 AND 3TV.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WAYNE, START WITH YOU, AND HOLY SMOKES!

PRESIDENT TRUMP COMING OUT AND SAYING MARK KELLY AND OTHER DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS AND SAYING SEDITION.

>> THEY'RE ALL VETERANS OR I BELIEVE SERVED IN INTELLIGENCE, AND CAME OUT ESSENTIALLY WERE TELLING OUR COUNTRY'S MILITARY MEMBERS IF THE PRESIDENT GIVES YOU ILLEGAL ORDER, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW IT.

JUST REMINDING THEM.

THE PRESIDENT BELIEVES IT CONSTITUTES SEDITIOUS ACTIVITY AND SHOULD BE HANGED.

TED: SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL AND TRAITORS SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND PUT ON TRIAL AND THEN POSTED HANG THEM.

INTERESTING PRESS CONFERENCE WITH THE NEW MAYOR OF NEW YORK.

HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SAY THEY SHOULD BE HANGED, BUT -- >> WELL, I HAVE A TRUTH SOCIAL ACCOUNT FOR EVENTS LIKE THIS TO CHECK IN ON OUR PRESIDENT.

I WENT THROUGH TO SEE WHAT THERE WAS.

HE WENT ON THE LONG STREAM OF POSTING AND REPOSTING VARIOUS THINGS PEOPLE HAD SAID INCLUDING ONE POST THAT SAID HANG THEM IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.

SO IF YOU'RE ON THE PRESIDENT'S SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNT, ON HIS PAGE, IT SAYS HE POSTED THIS, AND, YES IT'S A REPOST.

HE DIDN'T TYPE IN THE LETTERS BUT SAW THE POST, REPOSTED IT AND LET IT APPEAR ON HIS PAGE.

TAKE THAT AS YOU WILL.

WHEN WE HAVE LAWMAKERS OR OTHER FIGURES WHO REPOST THINGS, WE ARE ABLE TO INCLUDE THAT IN COVERAGE BECAUSE THERE ARE TEXTS TO IT THEN.

HE DIDN'T VERBALLY OR TECHNICALLY TYPE IT OUT.

>> I THINK WHEN YOU REPOST, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, YOU'RE SEEN AS ENDORSING THAT IDEA, AND WHEN YOU'RE REPOSTING SOMETHING THAT SAYS HANG THEM, THAT'S MAKING A REAL STATEMENT.

WE ALL LEARN DIFFERENT INTERESTING THINGS ALL DAY EVERY DAY IN THIS JOB.

ONE OF THE FUN THINGS I LEARNED YESTERDAY, I LEARNED THAT SEDITION DOES NOT CARRY THE DEATH PENALTY.

TREASON, HOWEVER, DOES CARRY THE DEATH PENALTY.

ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS I WAS SPEAKING WITH SAID SEDITION HAS A LOT TO DO WITH SPEECH.

A FINE LINE OF FREE SPEECH AND WHAT IS SEDITIOUS SPEECH.

SEDITIOUS SPEECH IS TRYING TO COERCE PEOPLE TO BAN THE GOVERNMENT AND USURP THE PEOPLE.

IF YOU TALK TO THE DEMOCRATS MAKING THESE COMMENTS, YOU READ THEIR STATEMENTS, THEY WEREN'T URGING ANYONE TO IGNORE LAWFUL ORDERS, IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE WORDING IN THAT VIDEO, REMINDING THEM YOU CAN DISOBEY AN UNLAWFUL OR ILLEGAL ORDER IN THIS SITUATION.

TED: KELLY'S PART OF THE VIDEO.

HE SAYS OUR LAWS ARE CLEAR, YOU CAN REFUSE ILLEGAL ORDERS.

>> IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE IDEA, AND I BELIEVE THEY POINTED THIS OUT, ESSENTIALLY THAT MILITARY MEMBERS ARE TAKING OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION, NOT TO THE PRESIDENT.

THIS IS SOMETHING THE DEMOCRATS POINT OUT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

WE DON'T HAVE A KING IN THIS COUNTRY, WE HAVE A PRESIDENT AND THE PRESIDENTS CHANGE OVER TIME.

THAT'S WHY THE OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAWS OF THIS LAND, AND THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT THEY WERE POINTING OUT.

THE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE WAS INEVITABLE.

AGAIN, THEY WERE POINTING OUT WHAT THE LAW STATES.

>> I WOULD ADD TO, CONTEXT ABOUT THIS ISSUE IS IMPORTANT.

IF YOU LOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING AND HOW DEMOCRATS ARE VIEWING THIS.

YOU'VE GOT FISHING BOATS IN THE CARIBBEAN THAT ARE TARGETED, PEOPLE BEING KILLED THERE.

YOU'VE GOT NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS BEING FEDERALIZED, SENT TO CITIES ACROSS AMERICA.

THIS IS WHY THE DEMOCRATS WILL TELL YOU, THIS IS WHY WE PUT THE VIDEO OUT NOW, AS WAYNE WAS SAYING, IT'S A REMINDER WHAT YOU ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW ANYTHING YOU FEEL IS AN ILLEGAL ORDER.

TED: WE SHOULD SAY THE PRESIDENT TODAY IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE WITH THE NEW MAYOR OF NEW YORK, DID SAY THAT THESE FOLKS WERE IN, QUOTE, SERIOUS TROUBLE, AND HE WOULD LOOK FOR MAYBE MILITARY COURTS TO TAKE ACTION.

IT'S THE LAW.

IT'S LAW.

IT'S CASE LAW.

YOU DON'T FOLLOW UNLAWFUL ORDERS.

>> YEAH, AND I DON'T KNOW IF DEPLOYING MILITARY RESPONSE WOULD HELP HIS POINT IN THIS CASE, BASED ON HOW WE GOT HERE.

PLUS ALL THE MEMBERS IN THE VIDEO ARE FORMER MILITARY, ET CETERA.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HE WAS SAYING HE COULD DO OR GOING TO DO, BUT YOU ARE CORRECT AND DENNIS IS CORRECT AND YOU'RE NOT OBLIGATED OR SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW UNLAWFUL ORDERS IN YOUR JOB.

TED: IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IS YET ANOTHER DAY IN THE LIFE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, OR WILL THIS HANG ON AND HAVE LEGS AND MOVE ON NEXT MONTH, NEXT YEAR?

>> I THINK IN SOMEONE ELSE'S POLITICAL CAREER, IT WOULD HAVE LONGER LEGS.

>> IT DEPENDS ON THE PRESIDENT AS WELL.

IT COULD JUST BE A ONE OR TWO NEWS CYCLE THING OR VERY WELL HE COULD INSTRUCT HIS ATTORNEY GENERAL PAM BONDI TO DO SOMETHING.

WE'VE SEEN THIS IN THE PAST.

THE KIND OF BALL'S IN THE PRESIDENT'S COURT, HE WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD ON THIS.

IT'S PRETTY MUCH UP TO THEM.

THE DISCUSSION OF THE LAWS, THE CODE OF MILITARY CONDUCT IS ALL PRETTY CLEAR IN THIS SITUATION, BUT WE'VE SEEN THIS PRESIDENT BEFORE JUST, YOU KNOW, TAKE HIS OWN ROAD AND MAKE HIS OWN INTERPRETATION, SO WHAT LAWS MIGHT BE.

>> WORTH NOTING THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAD NOT BEEN SHY ABOUT USING DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO STRIP POLITICAL ENEMIES OF MILITARY TITLES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

HOW MUCH IT WOULD AFFECT THESE INDIVIDUALS SINCE SECURITY CLEARANCE IS TIED TO CONGRESSIONAL SEATS.

I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S ANOTHER POSSIBILITY.

TED: LET'S MOVE ON.

CAMRYN, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS NOT GOING TO GIVE UP ON THE FAKE ELECTOR'S CASE.

>> NOT RIGHT NOW.

WE HAD A DEADLINE AND SHE SAID SHE'S GOING TO ASK THE STATE SUPREME COURT TO TAKE THIS ISSUE UP.

A LOWER COURT RULED SORT OF QUASHING THE GRAND JURY'S ORIGINAL INDICTMENT OF 11 REPUBLICAN FAKE ELECTORS IN ARIZONA BECAUSE THEY ARGUED THAT THE PROSECUTORS DIDN'T GIVE THE INFORMATION TO THE GRAND JURY THEY NEEDED TO ON THIS PARTICULAR ACT, SO NOW SHE IS TAKING IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL AND SEE WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS TO SAY.

TED: IS THIS A SURPRISE, DENNIS, AT ALL?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK IT IS.

SHE PUT A LOT OF POLITICAL CAPITAL, A LOT OF ATTENTION ON THIS.

SHE WOULD ARGUE SHE GOT A LATE START BECAUSE HER PREDECESSOR WASN'T LOOKING INTO IT AT ALL.

SHE RUNS A RISK OF SEEING THIS AS A POLITICAL BLUNDER OR A BLUNDER ON HER PART BECAUSE THE REASON IT WAS KICKED BACK TO THE GRAND JURY IS HER PROSECUTORS DIDN'T DOT THEIR Is AND CROSS THEIR Ts ON THIS ONE.

THIS IS A HIGH-PROFILE CASE, LOOK AT ROSTER OF DEFENDANTS, FORMER MAYOR OF AMERICA AND TRUMP'S ATTORNEY RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER CHAIRWOMAN OF THE ARIZONA REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND TWO STATE LAWMAKERS ON THIS.

THIS IS A VERY HIGH-PROFILE CASE.

IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

I WONDER WHERE THE PUBLIC IS ON THIS.

WE'RE OVER FIVE YEARS.

TED: I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT THAT, THE LONGER THIS GOES, THE LONGER IT GOES.

>> SHE'S PUT SO MUCH CAPITAL INTO THIS, HARD TO SEE HER GIVING UP NOW.

I WAS IN THE COURTROOM FOR THE ARGUMENTS.

WORTH NOTING THE PROSECUTORS DIDN'T GIVE THE GRAND JURY ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THE SPECIFIC LAW THAT THE FAKE ELECTORS ARE RELYING ON THAT GAVE THEM THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT THEY DID.

THEY DIDN'T GIVE THE TEXT OF IT.

THEY EXPLAINED THE LEGAL THEORY.

THEY DIDN'T GIVE THE ACTUAL TEXT SO YOU CAN SEE HOW LOOKING AT, THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MIGHT BE LIKE, WELL, IF THE SUPREME COURT LOOKS AT THIS, THEY MIGHT SAY WE DID OUR DUE DILIGENCE.

DIDN'T GO AS FAR AS THE DEFENSE THINKS WE SHOULD HAVE.

TED: IS THIS THE KIND OF THING, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL -- WE TALKED SHE MIGHT KICK IT BACK TO ANOTHER GRAND JURY.

NOW THE SUPREME COURT.

THIS IS GOING TO TAKE AWHILE.

>> GOING TO TAKE AWHILE AND I THINK IT'S A QUESTION OF WHAT DOES THE PUBLIC THINK OF IT, FIVE OR SIX YEARS AFTER?

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS IN NOVEMBER 2025, PRESUMABLY NOT GOING TO BE DONE BY THE END OF 2025.

YOU NEVER KNOW, AND FOR MAYES AND HER POLITICAL CAREER, IS THIS HELPFUL FOR HER IF SHE CONTINUES TO PURSUE IT IF THE COURT SAYS NO, AND OTHER COURTS SAY NO TO IT?

I THINK IT COULD BE AWKWARD?

>> WORTH POINTING OUT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE OR NOT.

IT COULD BE SOMETHING, COULD BE NOTHING.

THE SUPREME COURT, THE SEVEN MEMBERS, ALMOST ALL EXCEPT ONE ARE APPOINTED BY REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR.

SO IT'S A CONSERVATIVE COURT SHE'S ASKING TO DO THIS, AND THE BALL IS OBVIOUSLY IN THEIR COURT, NO PUN INTENDED.

I WONDER HOW THIS WILL MOVE FORWARD.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TIME.

CAMRYN IS TALKING ABOUT TIME.

IF THIS DRAGS OFF INTAT MIDTERM ELECTIONS, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THIS AND SAY WHAT'S GOING ON?

TED: HOW DOES THIS IMPACT NEXT YEAR'S A.G.

'S RACE?

>> YOU'VE SEEN WARREN PETERSEN RUNNING FOR THE NOMINATION TO TAKE ON MAYES MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT SAYING SHE'S WASTING PUBLIC MONEY ON POLITICAL PROSECUTION.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE THE HIT LINE THAT WHOEVER THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE IS WILL USE AGAINST HER.

>> YOU THINK IT'S A BIG DEAL NEXT YEAR?

EITHER/OR?

>> YEAH, IT'S GETTING A LITTLE TIRED.

TED: YEAH.

>> REPUBLICANS CAN MAKE A REALLY BIG DEAL OUT OF THIS WHOLE THING IN WHAT WAYNE WAS SAYING.

THEY COULD RUN A CAMPAIGN.

LOOK AT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PRICE TAG, IS LOOK AT MONEY IN TAXPAYER MONEY ON THIS FRIVOLOUS LAWSUIT.

I COULD SEE THE ADS BEING RUN NOW.

I WONDER, AND I THINK IT WOULD BE INCUMBENT AND THE A.G.

WOULD WANT A QUICK DECISION ON THIS POTENTIALLY OR MAYBE SHE WANTS TO DRAG IT OUT.

WHO KNOWS?

TED: WOULD IT BE -- IT'S A FRIVOLOUS LAWSUIT OR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DID NOT, AS YOU SAY -- >> THAT'S THE RISK SHE RUNS ON THIS.

THAT COULD BE SOMETHING TO GO AFTER HER ON.

LOOK, SHE SCREWED THIS HIGH-PROFILE CASE UP.

YOU CAN MAKE THAT ACCUSATION AND MAKE POLITICAL HEY OUT OF ALL OF IT.

TED: ALL RIGHT, WAYNE, WE HAVE THE EPSTEIN FILES, FINALLY THE VOTE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE.

WHAT DO WE KNOW?

WHAT ARE WE SEEING REGARDING ARIZONA CONNECTIONS?

>> NOTHING THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW.

JUST MORE IN-DEPTH INFORMATION THE ASU PROFESSOR AND THEY WERE FRIENDLY AND E-MAILED A LOT.

IT WASN'T ANYTHING KNEW.

IT CONFIRMED WHAT WE KNEW ABOUT ARIZONA.

TED: FRIENDLY BUT NO SEX TRAFFICKING INVOLVED AND CONVERSATIONS INVOLVED IN ANY OF THESE ASU FOLKS?

>> NOTHING THAT WE SAW IN THE FILES.

TED: AND THE U OF A FOLKS.

>> NOT THAT WE SAW.

TED: GOOD POINT, WE HAVEN'T SEEN ALL THE FILES, HAVE WE?

>> NOT YET.

TALK ABOUT A STORY THAT HAS LEGS.

YEAH ARIZONA CONNECTIONS ARE EVERYWHERE.

WE ARE -- ADELITA GRIJALVA WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN THE PETITION, AND THEN WE HAD THE HOUSE COMMITTEE TURNING OVER VARIOUS FILES AND WE HAVE OUR OTHER REPUBLICAN FEDERAL LAWMAKERS NOW CHANGING TUNE, AND WE HAVE THE HOUSE VOTING TO RELEASE THEM.

WE'RE SEEING A SHIFT IN THE NARRATIVE AROUND THE EPSTEIN FILES AS WELL FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

TED: HOW DID THEY CHANGE THEIR TUNES, THE REPUBLICAN CONTINGENT THERE?

>> I'LL TELL YOU REAL SIMPLE FOR MOST OF ARIZONA, THEY CHANGED THEIR TUNES BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP SAW WHERE THIS WAS GOING AND SAID THEY CAN GO AHEAD AND VOTE FOR THIS, HE URGED FOR THEM TO VOTE FOR IT.

ANDY BIGGS WAS OUT A COUPLE OF DAYS BEFORE DONALD TRUMP SAID HIS REPUBLICAN MEMBERS COULD GO AHEAD AND VOTE FOR THIS.

BIGGS SAID HE PLANNED TO VOTE TO RELEASE THE FILES.

THE REST OF ARIZONA'S REPUBLICANS IN THE DELEGATION WAITED UNTIL AFTER DONALD TRUMP HAD CLEARED THEM TO GO AHEAD AND FORCEFULLY SAY WE'VE BEEN FOR TRANSPARENCY ALL ALONG.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> THAT'S WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THAT.

INTERESTING, IT WAS FUN TO WATCH THIS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE I HAD.

I WAS CALLING, I WAS ASKING OUR REPRESENTATIVES, HOW DO THEY PLAN TO VOTE?

I WASN'T GETTING MUCH OF AN ANSWER.

SURPRISE, SURPRISE, AFTER DONALD TRUMP COMES OUT, EVERYBODY IS ON BOARD.

TED: HOW DID EACH MEMBER EXPLAIN THEMSELVES?

>> I WAS AT MEDIA EVENT WHERE CONGRESSMAN BIGGS TOLD US HE PLANNED TO VOTE TO RELEASE THEM, AND THE REPORTER ASKED THE QUESTION, HAD TO REPEAT THEMSELVES, HE RESPONDED YES SO QUICKLY, ALL OF US WERE WAIT, WHAT DID HE SAY?

FOR TRANSPARENCY, ALL THOSE THINGS AND HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE EPSTEIN FILES ARE.

NO ONE CAN DEFINE IT.

HE WANTS IT TO BE TRANSPARENT.

SOME OF THE OTHER MEMBERS PARROTED WHAT SPEAKER JOHNSON SAID THEY WERE AGAINST IT BUT VOTED FOR IT AND WORRIED IT MIGHT ENDANGER NAMES OF VICTIMS OR WITNESSES THAT MIGHT BE IN THE FILES.

TED: THAT WAS THE LONE NO VOTE FOR THAT REASON.

>> EVEN THE FOLKS WHO VOTED FOR IT SAID SO.

>> YOU WERE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT THE PRIOR ISSUE ABOUT WHETHER COULD THIS BE A BIG DEAL IN THE MIDTERM ELECTION.

COULD THIS BE A BIG DEAL IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE BECAUSE REMEMBER, TWO OF THE MEMBERS OF THE DELEGATION, DAVID SCHWEIKERT AND ANDY BIGGS ARE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS IN THE D.O.J.

FILES.

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO RISK, IF YOU'RE BIGGS OR SCHWEIKERT, WANT TO RISK SOMETHING BAD AND TERRIBLE IN THE FILES AND YOU WERE SEEN AS VOTING TO KEEP THAT FROM SEEING DAYLIGHT?

I THINK THAT WAS A REAL POLITICAL CALCULUS THAT THE PEOPLE WERE RUNNING HERE.

TED: I DID SEE SCHWEIKERT REFERRED TO THE JFK ASSASSINATION FILES BUT HE WAS ALL FOR THAT TOO?

>> THAT, TOO.

THIS IS GOING TO BE ROUGH AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GREATEST GIFT EVER TO THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY OPPONENTS AND PRESUMABLY TO KATIE HOBBS IN THE GENERAL, BIGGS AND SCHWEIKERT SUPPORT, NOT RELEASING THE EPSTEIN FILES.

THEY ARE PRO-JEFFREY EPSTEIN ESSENTIALLY.

THAT WOULD BE REALLY ROUGH.

IT MAKES SENSE FOR BIGGS TO STEP OUT AHEAD AND MAKE THE STATEMENT, AND SOME OF OUR OTHER DELEGATION MEMBERS HAVE BEEN QUIET, CISCOMANI HAS BEEN QUIET AS A MOUSE ABOUT THIS.

TED: WOULD THAT AFFECT HIM, DO YOU THINK?

PLAYING IT QUIET IS SAFE, BUT ARE YOU PLAYING IT TOO SAFE?

>> IT SORT OF DEPENDS.

HIS VOTE IS WHAT HE CAN LEAN ON THE MOST.

FACT HE HASN'T BEEN ANSWERING QUESTIONS IS FRUSTRATING TO SOME FOLKS IN HIS DISTRICT GOING INTO THE NEXT ELECTION.

TED: YEAH, YEAH.

DENNIS, START WITH YOU ON THIS ONE.

WHO IS AUSTIN SMITH AND WHY IS HE NO LONGER IN THE LEGISLATURE AND NO LONGER WITH TURNING POINT?

>> A FORMER STATE LAWMAKER, AND WE KNOW HE WILL NOT BE A STATE LAWMAKER FOR ANOTHER FIVE YEARS.

HE IS SOMEONE FIRST ACCUSED AND INDICTED OF FORGING SIGNATURES OF THE PETITION SIGNATURES YOU NEED TO QUALIFY FOR THE BALLOT.

INITIALLY I BELIEVE HE SAID THE WORD LUDICROUS HE WAS BEING ACCUSED OF THIS.

HE HAD TO ADMIT HE DID FORGE THESE SIGNATURES.

HE'S GOING TO END UP, PAYING I BELIEVE $5,000 FINE.

HE'S GOING TO BE ON PROBATION, AND AGAIN, HE'S ON A FIVE-YEAR TIME-OUT PERIOD WHERE, HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE AT THIS POINT.

WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT HIM TOO IS IT'S RICH WITH IRONY.

THE CROWD HE HANGS OUT WITH, THERE ARE ELECTION DENIERS AMONGST THAT CREW OF POLITICOS IN ARIZONA.

THE PEOPLE THAT WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, RIGGED ELECTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IF HE'S NOT PART OF THAT, HE'S VERY ADJACENT AND VERY CONNECTED TO SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE.

SO FOR HIM TO BE CAUGHT TRYING TO FORGE OR FAKE HIS WAY ONTO THE BALLOT IS RICH WITH IRONY THERE.

TED: RICH WITH IRONY THERE, AND OTHER ASPECTS OF THIS AS WELL THAT ARE SOMEWHAT IRONIC, I WOULD THINK.

>> YEAH, I BELIEVE HE STILL WORKS FOR TURNING POINT.

THERE A BRIEF RESIGNATION AFTER HE LEFT THE LEGISLATURE.

HE ALSO RESIGNED, AND I FOUND THEY BROUGHT HIM BACK ON AND HE'S LISTED ON THE WEBSITE TO THIS DAY.

TED: WOW, OKAY.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF IRONY ABOUT THIS.

TURNING POINT NEVER MET A FIGHT THEY DIDN'T LIKE.

THE FACT IS AFTER CALLING THIS LUDICROUS, THEY DIDN'T SAY MUCH ABOUT THE CHARGES, AS IT WAS WORKING THROUGH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

KIND OF PUT WRITING ON THE WALL THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO THIS.

I THOUGHT THEY WEREN'T FIGHTING MUCH BUT KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP.

>> THE OTHER IRONIC PART OF ALL THIS, IS TURNING POINT USA IS GOOD AT THIS STUFF GETTING PEOPLE ON THE BALLOTS AND HELPING OUT ON CAMPAIGNS.

SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT TPUSA, THEY ARE VERY GOOD AT THIS.

HOW COME THEY COULDN'T GET HIM THE SIGNATURES, MAN.

TED: HE GOT THE SIGNATURES.

GOODNESS GRACIOUS, CAMRYN, THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME THERE.

WASN'T A LOT OF EFFORT THERE.

>> I DON'T PRETEND TO BE A HANDWRITING EXPERT.

I REMEMBER OPENING UP THE FILINGS ON THE COMPUTER AND GOING WHOA, WOO.

I WAS NOT SURPRISED THEY TOOK A PLEA AND NOT SURPRISED THAT SMITH PURSUED AND KEPT HIS HEAD DOWN ABOUT IT.

IT WOULD BE HARD TO DEFEND AND THE PLEA DEAL IS MORE GENEROUS THAN COULD HAVE BEEN.

TED: THE PLEA DEAL CONTINGENT ON THE JUDGE NOT HAVING OTHER IDEAS WHAT TO GO ON HERE.

>> ANOTHER WILD THING ABOUT ALL THIS, THE LEGISLATIVE RACES YOU DON'T HAVE TO GATHER THAT MANY SIGNATURES.

LOTS OF REPUBLICAN DOORS TO KNOCK AND GET.

A LOT OF QUESTIONS WHY THEY COULDN'T GET THE SIGNATURES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

TED: YEAH, YEAH.

STICKING WITH YOU, WAYNE, JUSTIN HEAP AND THE RECENT ELECTIONS IN MARICOPA COUNTY, AND THE REJECTION RATE FOR BALLOTS, MAIL-IN BALLOTS, I GUESS THEY'RE ALL MAIL-IN, REGARDING SIGNATURES.

>> THE MOST RECENT NOVEMBER 4 ELECTION ALL MAIL-IN BECAUSE THE OFF-YEAR JURISDICTIONAL, SCHOOL BOARDS AND RACES AND BONDS, THEY DO IT ALL BY MAIL TO SAVE MONEY.

RECORDER IS CHARGED WITH RUNNING THE PROCESS TO LOOK AT THE SIGNATURES.

MAKING SURE THEY MATCH THE FILE TO VERIFY THEY ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE.

THE RATE HE REJECTED THEM CAME OUT TO .8%.

ABOUT 5,000+ BALLOTS, THAT IS WELL ABOVE WHERE IT'S BEEN IN ANY PREVIOUS ELECTION IN MODERN HISTORY.

USUALLY SEEING A RATE AROUND .1 TO .3%.

HE BLAMES IT ON THE FACT IT WAS A SPECIAL MAIL-IN ELECTION AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO NORMALLY VOTE IN PERSON WERE FORCED TO VOTE BY MAIL.

THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF SIGNATURES ON FILE AND DON'T HAVE A LOT TO COMPARE THEM TO.

THAT DIDN'T HOLD UP UNDER SCRUTINY.

THE LAST TIME WE HAD AN ELECTION LIKE THIS, THE RATE WAS MUCH LOWER.

TED: AND NEW TECHNOLOGY AND BIPARTISAN AND DOUBLE CHECKING AND ALL THIS?

>> WHAT'S INTERESTING IS HOW YOU INTERPRET THE NUMBER PAUSE YOU COULD USE THIS AS AN ARGUMENT, ALL MAIL-IN ELECTIONS, AS WE KNOW, REPUBLICANS DON'T LIKE THE CONCEPT OF THESE DAYS, AND YOU COULD SAY THIS MEANS WE'RE MORE SECURE THAN EVER.

OUR ELECTIONS ARE SAFER THAN EVER, THIS IS A REALLY GOOD THING BECAUSE MAYBE WE'RE WEAVING OUT MORE FRAUD THAN BEFORE.

YOU COULD SEE IT AS A NEGATIVE AND PEOPLE ARE BEING DISENFRANCHISED IF FEWER PEOPLE'S VOTES ARE COUNTED, THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM.

I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO ME.

I'M CURIOUS TO SEE THE SPIN AS THAT PLAYS FORWARD, AND IN THE NEXT ELECTION, IF THAT RATE IS STILL HIGH, BUT MORE PEOPLE ARE TURNING OUT FOR THE MIDTERMS AND JURISDICTIONAL ELECTIONS, ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE UPSET?

>> I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT.

THE KEY POINT IS HOW TO SPIN THIS.

IF YOU ARE SKEPTICAL OF THE ELECTIONS AND HOW WE RUN THOSE ELECTIONS, VERY MUCH TO CAMRYN'S POINT, YOU COULD SAY JUSTIN HEAP IS OUR GUY.

HE'S CATCHING THIS STUFF.

THIS IS GOOD.

THIS IS WHY WE ELECTED HIM.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU'RE NOT SKEPTICAL OF THAT, IF YOU TRUST IN THE INTEGRITY OF THE ELECTION SYSTEM, I'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF POLITICAL TYPES SAYING THIS COULD BE A PRELUDE TO A REAL BIG MESS IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS, A LITTLE LESS THAN A YEAR FROM NOW.

TED: WE SHOULD MENTION THAT BASICALLY IS THE TWO ARGUMENTS WE'RE SEEING, THOSE ARE THE ARGUMENTS, THOMAS GALVIN, CHAIR OF THE MARICOPA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, THINKS HEAP IS LOOKING FOR REASONS TO REJECT.

HEAP IS SAYING A HOME RUN FOR STAFF.

>> HE RAN ON THIS.

HE WAS ONE OF THE FOLKS WHO TOED THE LINE AND ENDORSED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING KARI LAKE, SAYING THE RECORDER WAS NOT VERIFYING PROPERLY.

YOU ARE TRYING TO FIND SOME WAY TO DO THAT, BUT HEAP, AGAIN, IS SAYING NO, WE'RE MAKING SURE THIS IS ACCURATE, IMPROVING THE PROCESS.

STOPPED SHORT OF SAYING FORMER RECORDER STEPHEN RICHER'S OFFICE WAS ALLOWING INVALID BALLOTS TO BE COUNTED.

I POSTED THE QUESTION, WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO ALL THIS?

HE THOUGHT IT WAS LAUGHABLE, YOU ARE TRYING TO PAUSE THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO PROVE 5,000 PEOPLE ARE COMMITTING VOTER FRAUD.

>> TENSION BETWEEN HEAP AND THE COUNTY BOARD.

LAWSUITS FLYING AROUND.

BATTLING FOR POWER WHO ULTIMATELY CONTROLS THE ELECTION.

I BELIEVE THE BOARD HAS CONTROL OVER ELECTION DAY STUFF, AND THE RECORDER IS IN CHARGE OF MAILING OUT BALLOTS AND DOING STUFF LIKE THAT.

HEAP IS NOT HAPPY WITH LIMITED POWER.

HE WANTS MORE POWER, AND THIS WILL ADD MORE TENSION FOR THAT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE RECORDER'S OFFICE AND THE COUNTY BOARD, I THINK.

TED: WE SHOULD MENTION THE COUNTY SUPERVISOR DEBBIE LESKO THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD THING.

>> CONCERNED ABOUT THE RATE, KATE BROPHY McGEE WAS CONCERNED THE RATE WAS SO HIGH.

THEY DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH A BIPARTISAN BOARD LOOKING AT THESE THINGS.

DON'T SEE A PROBLEM LOOKING AT SIGNATURES FOR COMPARISON.

WE WANT ANSWERS WHY THE TWO THINGS WHICH ARE RELATIVELY SIMPLE CAUSED THE RATE TO SKYROCKET SO HIGH.

TED: CAMRYN, YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT AND THE PUBLIC RECORD CASES?

>> NO, THANK YOU.

>> WE HAVE A COUPLE CASES BEFORE THE COURT, AND ONE I BELIEVE IS INVOLVING U OF A, ONE IS INVOLVING THE POLICE UNION.

THESE CASES ARE BOTH OF INTEREST TO THE GOLDWATER INSTITUTE, A THINK TANK WHICH HAS ITS HANDS IN THESE TOPICS.

BASICALLY THINGS WERE REQUESTED, AND NOT RECEIVED BY THE REQUESTORS.

THIS I FEEL, COMES UP A LOT AND JOURNALISTS ARE AFFECTED IN THIS BECAUSE IT AFFECTS US, BECAUSE WE HAVE THE EXPERIENCE AS WELL.

WHEN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS CHOOSE TO NOT PROVIDE PUBLIC RECORDS, IT RAISES QUESTIONS.

ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE SAYING WE DON'T WANT TO PROVIDE THEM BECAUSE WE DON'T FEEL IT'S IN OUR BEST INTEREST.

AND SOME WHO CARES?

IT'S WHAT'S IN THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST.

TED: WE SHOULD MENTION THE SUPREME COURT IS TAKING THIS ON, THE SUPERIOR COURT, APPELLATE COURT, SIDED WITH THE CITY OF PHOENIX AND THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA TO KEEP THESE THINGS QUIET.

>> I WOULD SAY THIS TOO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT PUBLIC RECORDS LAWS, ARIZONA HAS SOME OF THE WEST AND FRIENDLIEST PUBLIC RECORD LAWS THERE IS.

IT'S VERY SHORT STATUTE, IT'S VERY CLEAR WHAT'S PUBLIC RECORD OUT, THERE AND IF YOU ARE WITHHOLDING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS, YOU GOT TO HAVE BETTER REASONS THAN, WELL, IT'S NOT IN OUR INTEREST TO PUT THEM OUT THERE.

>> I WILL SAY DESPITE BEING VERY PERMISSIVE COMPARED TO OTHER STATES, THERE ARE CAVEATS AND CARVEOUTS AND SOME HAVE TO DO WITH THE INTEREST OF THE GOVERNMENT.

HAS TO DO WITH WHETHER IT'S PROPRIETARY INFORMATION WITH RUNNING ELECTIONS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

PHOENIX IS MAKING THE ARGUMENT IT WOULD HURT THEM IN NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE VARIOUS UNIONS THAT REPRESENT DIFFERENT EMPLOYEE GROUPS AND YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT HOW THAT BENEFITS TAXPAYERS AND ALL THAT.

THESE ALWAYS END UP AT THE SUPREME COURT BECAUSE THERE ARE PERMISSIVE -- WORDS ARE UP TO INTERPRETATION AND UP TO THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES TO COME DOWN WITH THE FINAL INTERPRETATION.

TED: AND THE U OF A'S ARGUMENT IS INTERESTING AS WELL.

THEY SAID AS PART OF DESTROYING TAPES WHICH IS PART THEIR DEAL, IS PART OF THE NORMAL PROCESS OF CLEANING OUT FILES AND YOU HAD WHAT THE PROFESSOR WANTED, IT WOULD BE, QUOTE, UNWORKABLE.

>> I'VE HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE, A LOT.

THE UNWORKABLE THING AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DESTROY RECORDS AS WE PLEASE.

WITH THE LEGISLATURE THEY CREATED RULES THAT MAKES IT CONVENIENT TO DESTROY RECORDS QUICKLY.

IF YOU DON'T REQUEST IT IN TIME, YOU SNOOZE, YOU LOSE.

THERE IS PUBLIC RECORD FOR THAT.

IF THE COURT CONTINUES TO BE SYMPATHETIC TO THE AGENCIES REFUSING TO SET PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST, THAT COULD SET PRECEDENT FOR ALL OF US.

TED: WE'LL STOP IT RIGHT THERE.

PANEL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.