♪.

RICK: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING KARI LAKE BEING CHOSEN TO LEAD THE VOICE OF AMERICA, AND TOM HORNE PLANNING TO SPEED UP THE VOUCHER REIMBURSEMENT PROJECTS.

THAT'S NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

RICK: GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M RICK DEBRUHL FILLING IN FOR TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE HAVE MARY JO PITZL OF "ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND AZCENTRAL, ALSO LAURIE ROBERTS, AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE JIM SMALL OF THE ARIZONA MIRROR.

ALL RIGHT, PLENTY OF TOPICS TO TALK ABOUT.

WE'LL START WITH KARI LAKE AND WHAT'S GOING ON WITH HER.

I THINK THIS WEEK, AWFUL LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING WHAT IS VOICE OF AMERICA, NUMBER ONE, AND A LOT OF VOICE OF AMERICA EMPLOYEES ARE GOING WHO IS KARI LAKE AND WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HER?

WHAT'S VOICE OF AMERICA AND WHAT IS KARI LAKE'S ROLE IN THAT?

>> SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE ROLE YET, DON'T PUT THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.

VOICE OF AMERICA WAS CREATED IN 1941 BY F DR TO BASICALLY HAVE AN INDEPENDENT DEMOCRATIC VOICE TO REPORT TO THE WORLD AND COUNTER THE PROPAGANDA OF NAZI GERMANY, SO THROUGH THE YEARS, IT'S THIS INDEPENDENT ENTITY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, FEDERALLY FUNDED MEDIA TO GO THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, YOU HAVE INTO EUROPE AND THE DIFFERENT CONTINENTS AND BE AMERICA'S VOICE.

RICK: IT'S EXIST FORWARD A LONG TIME, AND THE QUESTION IS, IS IT JUST AMERICAN PROPAGANDA OR SUPPOSED TO BE FAIR AND INDEPENDENT?

BY THE CHARTER, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE FAIR AND INDEPENDENT.

WHAT IS KARI LAKE'S POTENTIAL ROLE?

>> SHE WOULD LEAD THAT DIVISION, PART OF A LARGER STATE AGENCY.

RICK: U.S.

GLOBAL MEDIA.

>> SHE WOULD BE THE HEAD OF THE VOICE OF AMERICA PROGRAM.

THIS IS THE QUESTION.

DOES SHE GET CONFIRMED?

I THINK SHE HAS TO BE APPOINTED, DOESN'T SHE, BY THE BOARD THAT OVERSEES VOICE OF AMERICA.

RICK: SHE'S PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NOMINEE, AND THEN SHE HAS TO BE CONFIRMED BY A SIX MEMBER PANEL, TECHNICALLY A BIPARTISAN PANEL.

>> NOT THE U.S. SENATE.

>> IRONY IS KARI LAKE SPENT FOUR YEARS TALKING ABOUT THE MEDIA, BASHING THE FAKE NEWS, THE ELECTION CONSPIRACY THEORIZING THAT SHE'S DONE, SHE'S BEEN A MOUTHPIECE FOR DONALD TRUMP AND APPOINTED TO RUN AN AGENCY THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE INDEPENDENT, AND SHE WILL HAVE TO GET THE APPROVAL OF THE SEVEN-MEMBER PANEL WHICH INCLUDES A LOT OF INTERNATIONAL EXPERTS AND JOURNALISTS, WHICH IS KIND OF FUNNY.

SHE'S GOING TO HAVE TO WIN THEM OVER AND THE PERSON WHO MAKES THE APPOINTMENT IS THE HEAD OF U.S.

GLOBAL MEDIA.

YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT TRUMP'S WISHES WILL FIGURE INTO THIS, BUT AS FAR AS IT BEING AN INDEPENDENT AGENCY FREE OF INFLUENCE FROM DONALD TRUMP, THAT'S LAUGHABLE THAT THAT WILL HAPPEN UNDER KARI LAKE.

RICK: IN HIS FIRST ADMINISTRATION, HE WAS CRITICAL OF VOICE OF AMERICA, CORRECT?

>> QUITE CRITICAL OF IT.

IN PARTICULAR, DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AND THE THING THAT REALLY ANGERED HIM SO MUCH IS VOICE OF AMERICA WAS COVERING WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THE GROUND IN WUHAN, CHINA WHERE THE PANDEMIC BEGAN AND WAS PROVIDING INSIGHT INTO ALL OF THAT, AND TALKING ABOUT THE DANGERS OF COVID-19 AND HOW IT WAS SPREADING AND WHAT IT MEANT FOR POPULATIONS IN AMERICA AND AROUND THE WORLD AND THAT WAS AT THE TIME WHEN DONALD TRUMP WAS TRYING TO TELL EVERYBODY THAT COVID-19 WASN'T A BIG DEAL, THAT NOTHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, THEY HAD IT UNDER PERFECT CONTROL, AND WE DIDN'T NEED TO TALK OR TEST PEOPLE FOR IT BECAUSE IF WE DID, THAT THINGS WOULD GET WORSE.

IT SPARKS HUGE OUTREACH FROM TRUMP AND EVERYONE ELSE, WHICH PUT OUT A SCATHING STATEMENT REALLY RIPPING VOICE OF AMERICA UP ONE SIDE AND DOWN THE OTHER AND CALLING THEM PROPAGANDA FOR LIBERAL ELITE AROUND THE WORLD.

RICK: THERE WAS A JUDGE THAT STEPPED IN AND RULED THAT THE BOSSES AT U.S.

GLOBAL MEDIA WERE VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF THE JOURNALISTS.

JUST BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT WANTS TO GO ONE WAY DOESN'T MEAN THERE IS ANYTHING SIMPLE ABOUT THAT, CORRECT?

>> SO IT LOOKS LIKE, YEAH.

WE SHALL SEE, AND I DON'T THINK THAT IF SHE ASSUMES THIS ROLE EVENTUALLY, I DON'T THINK SHE WILL BE THE VOICE.

SHE IS A FORMER BROADCASTER, BUT I THINK SHE WILL BE MORE OF AN ADMINISTRATOR.

>> SHE IS THE VOICE THAT THE HEAD OF THE AGENCY DECIDES WHAT THE PRIORITIES OF THE AGENCY ARE.

IT IS A $267 MILLION AGENCY.

THIS IS SOMEONE WHO HAS A BACKGROUND MUCH LIKE YOUR OWN.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU FEEL -- RICK: I HAVEN'T RUN A $267 MILLION AGENCY.

>> SHE'S A NEWS ANCHOR.

MY REACTION IS TO SAY, GEE, DOES THE VOICE OF AMERICA STILL EXIST?

I DIDN'T KNOW IT DID.

IT WOULD SEEM IN THIS DAY AND AGE OF INTERNATIONAL GLOBAL MEDIA, WHY DO WE HAVE IT?

I WOULD THINK THAT ELON MUSK WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT PARTICULAR AGENCY.

RICK: HERE'S THE OTHER QUESTION, A LOT OF DISCUSSION SHE WAS IN THE RUNNING TO BE AMBASSADOR TO MEXICO.

IS VOICE OF AMERICA A VERY SMALL CONSOLATION PRIZE OR ENOUGH TO SAY, OKAY, YOU WERE A TRUMP SUPPORTER AND WE TRULY REWARDED YOU?

>> I THINK IT'S SOMETHING.

I KNOW THERE WERE A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS WHERE WAS SHE GOING TO LAND?

SHE LOST THE RACE FOR U.S. SENATE SO SHE WASN'T GOING TO GO TO D.C. AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, SO HOW WAS SHE GOING TO D.C.?

A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS I HAD WITH FOLKS, SPITBALLING IDEAS AND POSTS SHE COULD BE APPOINTED TO.

THIS MAKES SENSE IN THE NEXUS IN HER CAREER AS BROADCAST JOURNALIST AND RUNNING THIS ORGANIZATION TO.

LAURIE'S POINT, THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DOING THE STUFF THAT ANY OF US REALLY DO AND HAVE DONE THROUGHOUT OUR CAREERS AND RUNNING A MASSIVE ORGANIZATION WITH A HUGE BUDGET.

RICK: TO LAURIE'S POINT, SHE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE ORGANIZATION STILL EXISTED.

I GET IT BUT NO ONE KNOWS -- >> IT'S A HAND-HOLD.

YOU ARE MAYBE INTO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, LOT OF THINGS ARE GOING TO MOVE AROUND, IF PAST EXPERIENCE IS ANY PREDICTOR.

WHO KNOWS WHAT THIS MIGHT LEAD TO.

BUT IT GETS A FOOT IN THE DOOR.

>> THE INTERESTING THING TO SEE IS HOW MUCH OF A FOOT HOLD SHE MAINTAINS IN ARIZONA.

THIS IS AN AGENCY BASED IN D.C., SO PRESUMABLY SHE'LL BE MOVING THERE, YOU CAN'T RUN IT FROM HERE, I WOULDN'T THINK, BUT I IMAGINE SHE'LL KEEP HER HAND IN ARIZONA POLITICS TO A DEGREE, AND I WOULD BE -- RICK: HAVE WE SEEN THE LAST OF HER AS A CANDIDATE IN ARIZONA?

>> NEVER SAY NEVER, I WOULD HAVE SAID YES TWO YEARS AGO, BUT WHO KNOWS?

>> OKAY.

SPEAKING OF AN ELECTED OFFICIAL THAT GOT IN THE NEWS THIS WEEK FROM ARIZONA, THAT'S SENATOR KYRSTEN SINEMA.

THE FACT SHE WAS THERE FOR A VOTE IN WASHINGTON AT THE NLRB.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE VOTE AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE FACT THAT SHE VOTED.

WHO WANTS TO EXPLAIN THE VOTE AND WHY SHE DID IT?

>> WELL, SHE SHOWED UP.

THERE WAS A MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD WAS UP FOR REAPPOINTMENT.

RICK: A DEMOCRATIC MEMBER.

>> A DEMOCRATIC MEMBER.

AND SENATOR SINEMA, A DEMOCRAT TURNED INDEPENDENT, VOTED WITH THE REPUBLICANS TO NOT EXTEND THAT NOMINEE.

RICK: ALONG WITH SENATOR MANCHIN AS WELL.

>> YES.

RICK: WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT?

>> PERHAPS IT WILL GIVE TRUMP AN APPOINTEE TO PUT ON THE NLRB.

COULD CHANGE THE TENOR AND DIRECTION OF THE BOARD WHICH OVERSEES LABOR RELATIONS.

>> GIVES REPUBLICANS MAJORITY ON THE FIVE-MEMBER BOARD.

IT IS SET UP TO PROTECT VOTER RIGHTS, AND THE DEMOCRATS WANTED TO SEAL THE DEAL IN FOR TWO YEARS.

SHE WOULD HAVE SERVED UNTIL 2026 UNDER THE PROCESS.

SO SINEMA WHO HASN'T SHOWN UP SINCE MARCH AT SENATE MUCH AT ALL, PUT IN APPEARANCE THIS WEEK AFTER HAVING NOT BEEN THERE SINCE BEFORE THANKSGIVING, AND PRETTY MUCH, I THINK IT WAS A FAREWELL TO THE DEMOCRATS, MAYBE A FINGER TO THEM SAYING, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT NICE TO CROSS KYRSTEN SINEMA BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THEY WANTED, AND SHE COULD HAVE GIVEN THEM AND SHE DIDN'T.

RICK: SHE'S MISSED, I THINK, 60% OF THE VOTES SINCE MID-NOVEMBER, WHICH IS INTERESTING, BECAUSE FOR A LONG TIME SHE WAS A VERY REGULAR VOTER.

GRANTED, SHE'S ON HER WAY OUT, BUT THESE ARE STILL THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED HER AND EXPECT HER TO VOTE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO POINT OUT.

SENIORITIS IS A THING.

YOU GET TO THE END, MAYBE I'M NOT GOING TO SHOW UP TO WORK.

PUT IN MY TWO WEEKS' NOTICE EARLY, GET READY TO GRADUATE, MAYBE DON'T GO TO CLASS.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR VOTERS.

THERE HAVE BEEN THINGS, THE SENATE'S WORK HASN'T STOPPED EVEN THOUGH WE HAD THE ELECTION AND THE RUN-UP TO THE ELECTION.

THEY'RE SHOWING UP TO DO THEIR WORK BUT SHE'S LARGELY NOT BEEN A PART OF IT.

RICK: MAYBE WE'RE DOING A LITTLE SPECULATION HERE, WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE POST-SENATE CAREER FOR SENATOR SINEMA?

SOMETIMES YOU BUILD THAT, YOU LAUNCH OFF STRONG SO PEOPLE THINK WE LIKE THIS PERSON.

>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL DO ANYTHING BUT HELP HER.

THIS WAS -- SHE VOTED AGAINST BOOSTING MINIMUM WAGE.

SHE VOTED AGAINST SUPPORTING A PERSON ON THIS BOARD WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN IN SUPPORT OF MORE WORKER RIGHTS.

I WOULD THINK THAT SHE COULD GET ON ANY CORPORATE BOARD SHE PROBABLY WANTED TO AT THIS POINT.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE WEEPING FOR KYRSTEN SINEMA AT ALL.

>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

SOMEWHAT AN INSIDE GAME.

WHAT ARE VOTERS GOING TO DO, RECALL HER?

IT'S THE END OF A TERM AND SHE'S LEAVING.

>> I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT TODAY, TOO.

KYRSTEN SINEMA CAME INTO THE SENATE HAVING CAMPAIGNED TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE AND GET THINGS DONE, AND SHE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN MANY OF THE LEGISLATIVE ACHIEVEMENTS OF JOE BIDEN, AND I THINK ONCE THE DEMOCRATS TURNED ON HER, THEY WOULD SAY SHE TURNED ON THEM, BUT WHICHEVER WAY YOU PUT IT, THERE WAS A SPLIT BETWEEN HER AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, AND SHE WORKED ON THE BIPARTISAN BORDER BILL THAT TRUMP TORPEDOED IN A MINUTE AND A HALF BY TELLING PEOPLE TO VOTE AGAINST IT.

IT TURNED PEOPLE OFF AND FRUSTRATED HER, THE SENATE IS NOT A PLACE CAN YOU GET ANYTHING DONE.

I DON'T BLAME HER FOR JET SETTING AROUND THE COUNTRY AND SAYING TO HECK WITH THE SENATE, THEY'RE DOING IT ANYWAY.

RICK: BACK TO THE ORIGINAL KYRSTEN SINEMA, WHEN SHE WAS A STATE LAWMAKER, AND REMEMBER THE INFAMOUS TUTU SHE WORE AT A NEWS CONFERENCE, WOULD WE GUESS THAT THAT PERSON IS THIS PERSON TODAY, JIM?

>> NO, BUT WE'VE BEEN SAYING THAT MOST OF THE PAST SIX YEARS SHE GOT IN THE U.S. SENATE.

PEOPLE WOULD HAVE MADE THE CASE THAT THE KYRSTEN SINEMA WHO SERVED IN THE HOUSE SIX OR EIGHT YEARS BEFORE THAT WAS NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE KYRSTEN SINEMA WHO CERTAINLY CUT HER TEETH IN THE ARIZONA LEGISLATURE.

I KNOW MARY JO WAS DOWN THERE AND LAURIE WATCHED IT A LOT.

WE ALL SAW HALFWAY THROUGH HER LEGISLATIVE TENURE WHERE SHE REALIZED WHAT SHE WANTED AND THE WAY FOR HER TO GET -- WHAT SHE WANTED TO DO IS TO GO TO CONGRESS AND THE WAY TO DO THAT IS BE IN A SWING DISTRICT THAT WOULD BE DRAWN FOR, WHICH IT WAS, AND POSITION HERSELF AS A CENTRIST, SOMEONE IN THE MIDDLE.

SHE VERY MUCH REBRANDED HERSELF HALFWAY THROUGH LEGISLATIVE TENURE AND LAID THE GROUNDWORK FOR THAT.

IT GOT HER TO THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

GOT HER TO THE U.S. SENATE.

THEN SHE GOT A LITTLE FLEW A LITTLE TOO CLOSE TO THE SUN THE WAY POLITICS CHANGED AROUND HER, AND THAT RESULT IN THE THE SCHISM WHERE SHE AND THE DEMOCRATS BECAME ENEMIES.

RICK: SHE DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE TOO MANY SUPPORTERS ON THE RIGHT OR THE LEFT.

THEORETICALLY SHOULD HAVE MORE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE BUT NOT LIKE THE REPUBLICANS ARE SWIRLING AROUND HER?

>> THE REPUBLICANS LIKED HER, BECAUSE IT'S KYRSTEN SINEMA, HELPING THE REPUBLICANS.

THEY WERE NEVER GOING TO SUPPORT HER WHEN IT CAME TIME TO SUPPORT HER OR ANYONE OF A REPUBLICAN NATURE.

WE ALL SAY WE WANT THE CENTRISTS BUT THE LAST ELECTION SHOWED US ALL WE REALLY DON'T.

WE WANT PEOPLE AT THE EXTREMES.

THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT.

RICK: WHAT IS THE LEGACY OF KYRSTEN SINEMA?

AS WE REACH THE END OF HER POTENTIALLY ELECTED CAREER, WHAT IS THAT LEGACY THAT WE SEE THAT SHE'S LEFT BEHIND?

>> THEY'LL SHOW AT CURRENT TIMES TRYING TO A CENTRIST AND BUILD ON THAT, BUILD A COALITION.

YES, SHE GOT THINGS DONE AND WILL BE REMEMBERED FOR THOSE THINGS.

THE INFRASTRUCTURE ACT SPECIFICALLY BUT ALSO THE CHIPS ACT, OTHER THINGS SHE WAS VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN PASSING, BUT IT'S A DEMONSTRATION HOW THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM IS BROKEN BUT WE'RE LOCKED INTO IT AND THERE'S NOT MUCH ROOM FOR SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO OPERATE OUTSIDE.

RICK: HOW POLARIZED THINGS ARE AND THERE IS NO ROOM FOR SOMEONE AT THE CENTER.

>> I SUPPOSE THERE WILL BE MENTION OF HER WARDROBE AND APPEARANCE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO WITH WOMEN.

>> YOU DON'T DANCE ON OCCASION WITH THE ONES WHO BRUNG IT.

THERE WERE NO TOWN HALLS, THERE WAS NO ACCESSIBILITY TO KYRSTEN SINEMA.

YOU COULDN'T CALL KYRSTEN SINEMA ON THE PHONE AND TALK TO HER.

YOU COULD HARDLY GET TO ONE OF HER AIDES.

I DON'T WANT TO SAY SHE TURNED HER BACK ON ARIZONA BECAUSE SHE DID A LOT FOR ARIZONA IN THE WAY SHE LEGISLATED BUT FORGOT TO MAINTAIN RELATIONSHIPS AND PEOPLE WHO FELT LIKE THEY KNOCKED ON DOORS AND KNOCKED THEMSELVES OUT FOR HER AND SHE TURNED HER BACK ON THEM BY VOTING AGAINST THE DEMOCRATIC INITIATIVES TO PROTECT THE FILIBUSTER.

>> VOTING RIGHTS WAS A BIG ONE.

>> THEY FELT BETRAYED BY HER, AND SHE FELT BETRAYED BY THEM.

SOMETHING TO BE SAID IN MANAGING RELATIONSHIPS, IN WASHINGTON, DON'T FORGET WHERE THEY CAME FROM.

>> WILL SHE STILL MAINTAIN ARIZONA AS A HOME?

SHE COULD GO ANYWHERE.

SHE HAS GONE MANY PLACES RECENTLY.

RICK: WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE NEW BASE FOR KYRSTEN SINEMA?

>>> LET'S TALK ABOUT EDUCATION, TOM HORNE IN SPECIFICS.

THE SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE SCHOOL VOUCHER SYSTEM?

>> THE WAY THE POLICY WORKS, IF YOU WANT TO GET VOUCHER MONEY, YOU HAVE TO -- YOU CAN ADVANCE -- RICK: THIS IS VOUCHER MONEY FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS?

>> PRIVATE SCHOOLS, HOME-SCHOOLING, EDUCATIONAL SUPPLIES.

YOU BUY IT YOURSELF AND YOU SUBMIT YOUR RECEIPTS FOR REIMBURSEMENT AND FOR CLEARANCE, AND THEY GOT A HUGE, HUGE BACKLOG OF THAT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT 86,000 KIDS IN THE EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNT PROGRAM.

SO TO TRY TO SPEED THINGS UP, SUPERINTENDENT HORNE SAID, WELL, ANYTHING, THAT'S $2,000 OR LESS, WE'LL AUTOMATICALLY APPROVE IT AND FIX IT ON THE BACK SIDE.

IF WE HAVE TO CLAW THE MONEY BACK, WE'LL CLAW IT BACK.

I SAY GOOD LUCK.

>> THIS CAME A WEEK AFTER INDICTMENT OF A PAIR FROM COLORADO WHO INVENTED A BUNCH OF KIDS.

CLAIMED THEY WERE ARIZONA KIDS AND WE WERE PAYING $110,000 WE SHELLED OUT TO EDUCATE THE 50 FAKE KIDS.

I THINK 47 WERE FAKE.

TO HORNE'S CREDIT, I THINK HIS FOLKS DID EVENTUALLY FIGURE IT OUT AND FIND THOSE PEOPLE, BUT IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME THAT YOU'LL SIT ON THE HEELS OF FINDING CORRUPTION IN THE SYSTEM, YOU SAY WE HAVE LESS OVERSIGHT NOT MORE.

THE ANSWER SHOULD BE HIRING THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY OVERSEE THE PROGRAM.

THE LEGISLATURE IS NOT INTERESTED IN DOING THAT.

GOVERNOR HOBBS HAS WANTED TO DO THAT BUT THE MONEY HASN'T BEEN THERE.

SEEMS TO ME, RATHER THAN SAYING WE ARE NOT GOING TO LOOK AT ANYTHING UNDER $1999, THE BETTER IDEA WOULD BE LET'S LOOK AT IT.

RICK: DOES IT OPEN UP THE DOOR TO SAY IF I MIGHT GAIN THE SYSTEM, I'M GOING TO DO IT FOR $1999?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THAT THAT'S A FORESEEABLE CONSEQUENCE OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE, RIGHT?

THE FACT THAT ESSENTIALLY THEIR STANCE IS GOING TO BE WE JUST APPROVE IT AND INSPECT IT AND LOOK LATER AND DO AUDITS ON STUFF AFTER THE MONEY HAS BEEN OUT THE DOOR.

FOUR, SIX MONTHS, A YEAR LATER.

THAT'S A RECIPE FOR FRAUD.

WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT SOMETHING LIKE THE PAYMENT PROTECTION PLAN.

ALL THE PPP LOANS THE COMPANIES GOT AND SUCH AN AMOUNT OF FRAUD.

THE WHOLE POINT OF THE PROGRAM WAS TO GET THE MONEY OUT QUICKLY.

AND IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO GET IT INTO PEOPLE'S HANDS FAST AND CUT THROUGH THE BUREAUCRATIC RED TAPE.

I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING ON A MUCH SMALLER AND LOCALIZED SCALE.

>> DOES THAT MEAN IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR REIMBURSEMENT FOR THE DUNE BUGGIES THAT YOU PURCHASED YOU WILL DO THAT ON INSTALLMENT BASIS?

>> THE POINT BEING, THESE ARE EDUCATIONAL EXPENSES BUT STRETCHING THE CONCEPT WHAT AN EDUCATIONAL EXPENSE COULD BE, CORRECT?

>> RIGHT.

RICK: IS THIS DONE OR -- >> HE HAD EVERY RIGHT TO DO THAT.

>> THE ANSWER GOES BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE.

THIS IS A PROGRAM THAT EXPANDED TEN TIMES OVER AND THE STAFFING FUNDED BY THE LEGISLATURE AT DOUBLE.

HAVE YOU DOUBLE THE STAFF TO DO TEN TIMES THE WORK.

IT'S INEVITABLE THAT YOU HAVE FRAUD.

THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES WITH THE LEGISLATURE THAT REFUSED TO GIVE HORNE THE MONEY.

I DON'T THINK HORNE HAS GREAT DESIRE TO OPEN THE SYSTEM TO FRAUD.

THEY KNOW THIS IS ULTIMATELY A FUEL SITUATION.

>> AND THE PROGRAM IS GOING TO BLOW UP ON THEM.

RICK: ALL THINGS BEING A LEGISLATIVE TAX CREDIT THAT BECAME A SHALL WE CALL IT A BOONDOGGLE?

>> IT WAS TO CREATE, TO INSPIRE PEOPLE TO BUY MORE ALTERNATIVE FUEL CARS AND WHAT ENDED UP HAPPENING IS PEOPLE PUT IN PROPANE TANKS AND BOUGHT THE MONSTER SUVs THAT GUZZLE GASOLINE AND WE PAID FOR IT.

>> THAT'S WHAT LED TO THE ESA PROGRAM BEING DUBBED ALT-SCHOOLS.

RICK: ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST A SAUDI COMPANY FOR PUMPING WATER IN WESTERN ARIZONA.

WHAT'S THE STORY ON THIS?

>> THIS STRETCHES BACK TO A COMPANY CALLED FONDOMONTE IN RURAL ARIZONA, OWNED BY SAUDI ARABIA, THEY GROW ALFALFA AND HAY AND SHIP IT HALFWAY AROUND THE WORLD TO SAUDI ARABIA BECAUSE SAUDI ARABIA DOESN'T HAVE THE WATER TO GROW THE CROPS THEY NEED FOR LIVESTOCK AND ANIMALS.

IN DOING SO, THEY FOUND A WAY TO TAP INTO THE GROUND WATER AND NOT HAVE TO GET THE PERMITS, BE ABLE TO TAKE AS MUCH AS THEY WANT.

STICK THE STRAW IN AND SUCK OUT AS MUCH AS THEY WANT.

THERE ARE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES HARMED BY THIS NOW AND WILL CERTAINLY BE HARMED BY IT IN THE FUTURE.

KRIS MAYES MADE AN ISSUE OUT OF THIS SINCE SHE'S BEEN IN OFFICE AND HER SOLUTION, SINCE THEY'RE NOT BREAKING WATER LAWS IS GO AFTER THEM FOR PUBLIC NUISANCE, TO EXPAND THE PUBLIC NUISANCE LAWS AGAINST THIS COMPANY, AND IT'S A NOVEL, LEGAL THEORY.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

SOMETHING THAT'S NEVER BEEN TRIED BEFORE AND SEEMS TO BE GREATLY EXPANDING THE IDEA WHAT PUBLIC NUISANCE WOULD BE AND TRYING TO GET THE COURTS TO REWRITE THE LAW.

>> ISN'T THE PUBLIC NUISANCE LAW THAT'S PUNISHABLE, IT'S A MISDEMEANOR OFFENSE.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO DETER THE SAUDIS.

>> THE SAUDIS, YOU GOT TO GIVE THEM CREDIT, THEY LIVE IN A DESERT AND DON'T WANT TO USE THEIR WATER TO GROW THE CROPS TO FEED THE COWS SO THEY COME HERE.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE LEGISLATURE BE AS SMART AS THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT SAY WE LIVE IN A DESERT TOO AND SUCKING RURAL ARIZONA DRY IS NOT THE BEST PLAN.

THIS COMMERCIAL ENTITY IS SUCKING SOMETHING LIKE 80% OF THE WATER IN BASIN IN LA PAZ COUNTY.

I THINK IT'S AN OUTRAGE AND AT LEAST KRIS MAYES IS DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

NOBODY ELSE HAS.

GOVERNOR HOBBS HAS TRIED TO TAKE SOME PERMITS AWAY AND THINGS.

RICK: THERE IS NOT MUCH THEY CAN DO, RIGHT?

UNDER THE LAW.

>> THE COMPANY IS OPERATING LEGALLY.

FUNDAMENTALLY THEY ARE, WE'LL SEE WITH THE PUBLIC NUISANCE IDEA HOW THE COURTS VIEW THAT.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS KNOWN ABOUT THIS.

THIS IS NOT A NEW ISSUE.

"THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" DID INCREDIBLE REPORTING AND HIGHLIGHTING AND EXPLAINING WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND LEGISLATURE HAS HAD A LOT OF IDEAS FOR WATER FOR STOPPING THIS PRACTICE AMONG THEM.

BUT THEY'RE SO DEADLOCKED ON WATER ISSUES THAT THEY CAN'T GET ANYTHING DONE, SO THE RESULT IS THAT YOU HAVE GOVERNOR HOBBS DOING WHAT SHE CAN, YOU HAVE ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES LOOKING AT IT, LET'S THROW SOMETHING AGAINST THE WALL AND SEE WHAT STICKS.

SEE IF QUEE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SINCE THE POLICYMAKERS ARE UNABLE TO GO ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

RICK: IF IT'S A MISDEMEANOR, IF SHE GETS THAT, WHAT'S THE RESULT?

OR IS IT RATTLING THIS OFF AND FINDING SOMETHING ELSE?

>> LIKE JIM MENTIONED, A WAY TO RAISE THE ISSUE AND THERE ARE CERTAIN PUBLIC NUISANCES THAT ARE MUCH MORE SEVERE AND LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO STRICTER PENALTYS.

>> SPEAKING OF ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES, SHE WAS TAKING A VICTORY LAP AS A RESULT OF THE FAILURE OF THE ALBERTSON'S-KROGER MERGER.

HOW DOES THIS INTERSECT WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, EXPLAIN THAT.

>> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL JUMPED ONTHIS EARLY IN HER TENURE.

SHE HELD TOWN HALLS AROUND THE STATE.

A SMART IDEA, EVERYBODY CARES ABOUT THEIR GROCERY BILLS AND LAUNCHED AN INVESTIGATION AND HER OFFICE SAID THEIR FINDINGS FOUND THIS WOULD NOT BE A GOOD THING.

FED IT INTO THE ONGOING LAWSUITS THAT WERE RUNNING THAT WERE CHALLENGING THE MERGER, AND VOILA, EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE FTC SUED TO BLOCK THE MERGER, TO ASK FOR A PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION, AND THE FEDERAL JUDGES SAID WE'RE GOING TO -- NOT GOING TO LET THIS GO THROUGH.

NOT GOING TO LET IT HAPPEN, AND IT'S PRETTY MUCH A DEAD IDEA.

A MERGER IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> IT'S THE FIRST SUPERMARKET MERGER IN DECADES THAT HASN'T BEEN RUBBER STAMPED AND ALLOWED.

RICK: BECAUSE WE'RE DOWN TO SO FEW LEFT NOW?

>> I WONDER IF IT'S THAT OR THE PRICE OF EGGS THING THAT MOTIVATED VOTERS, THE COURTS SAID WE GOT TO GET AHOLD OF THIS.

I DON'T KNOW, GENERALLY SPEAKING THEY STAYED OUT OF THE BUSINESS OF SUPERMARKETS, THE PROFIT MARGIN IS LOW THERE TO BEGIN WITH.

YOU HAVE TO CHARACTERIZE IT AS A WIN FOR CONSUMERS WHO WANT CHOICES, WIN FOR ANYBODY WHO THINKS COMPETITION IS A GOOD THING.

FARMERS, EMPLOYEES OF THE COMPANIES, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD THING UNLESS WE WANT TO GO TO ONE SUPER FRY'S.

RICK: THE GOAL IS TO SAVE TWO COMPANIES WHO WEREN'T AS HEALTHY AS THEY COULD BE AND MAKE ONE COMPANY THAT IS HEALTHIER.

DO WE HURT THE SUPERMARKET WORLD?

>> THE GOAL WAS TO CREATE A COMPANY TO COMPETE WITH WALMART.

KROGER WHICH OWNS FRY'S LOCALLY AND A NUMBER OF CHAINS AROUND THE COUNTRY, WENT AFTER ALBERTSONS HAD TAKEN OVER SAFEWAY AND BECAME MUCH LARGER THAN IT HAD BEEN.

AND FRY'S SAID IF WE ABSORB AND MERGE WITH THAT AND TAKE THAT ON, WE'RE GOING ABLE TO TO BE ON THE SAME SCALE AS WALMART, WHICH THE SUPERCENTERS HAVE BEEN -- THEY'VE BEEN A REAL PROBLEM FOR GROCERY COMPANIES FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS AS WALMART EXPANDED AND GONE FROM, YOU KNOW, A SMALL FOOT HOLD IN THE GROCERY MARKET TO DOMINATING IT.

THAT'S ULTIMATELY WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

THIS IS ABOUT TRYING TO ONE-UP THE COMPANY AHEAD OF THEM AND TRY TO OVERTAKE THEM AND TRY TO, AT THE SAME TIME, CUT COSTS, IN ORDER TO BOOST SHARE PRICES, AND THAT'S FUNDAMENTALLY WHAT THIS WHOLE THING WAS ABOUT, AND IT DOES PUT CONSUMERS IN A BAD PLACE.

THERE WERE 100 STORES SOLD OFF IN ARIZONA TO A COMPANY THAT HAD NEVER RUN GROCERY STORES BEFORE.

HERE YOU GO.

600 STORES, NOW CAN YOU COMPETE WITH THE GIGANTIC KROGER FRY'S COMPANY.

THEY ARE SAYING YOU ARE DOOMING THE STORES TO FAIL.

YOU WILL END UP WITH A, FOOD DESERTS AND B CONSUMERS NOT BEING PROTECTED.

RICK: OUR JOB NOW IS TO FINISH BECAUSE WE RUN OUR TIME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BE BEING HERE.

THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

ESPECIALLY WANT TO THANK LAURIE ROBERTS AND MARY JO PITZL AND JIM SMALL.

TED SIMONS WILL BE BACK ON MONDAY.

I'M RICK DEBRUHL AND I HOPE YOU HAVE A VERY NICE WEEKEND.