♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING A BIG SHAKE-UP IN THE REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN FOR GOVERNOR.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

AND JOINING US TONIGHT, DENNIS WELCH FROM CBS 5 AND 3TV.

HELEN RUMMEL FROM "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND AZCENTRAL.COM, AND WAYNE SCHUTSKY FROM KJZZ RADIO.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

DENNIS, START WITH YOU, KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON, OUT OF HERE, SHE SUSPENDED HER CAMPAIGN, WE KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?

>> THE MOST WELL-FUNDED CANDIDATE, BIG BUCKS AND TURNS OUT TO BE A BUST.

ON THE GOVERNOR'S RACE YEARS AGO, THIS TIME AROUND, IT WASN'T IN THE CARDS FOR HER.

I SAW SOME PEOPLE WRITING ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THIS WASN'T A SURPRISE OR A BOMBSHELL OR SOMETHING.

THIS WAS KIND OF EXPECTED.

IT DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THERE WAS ANY MOMENTUM FOR KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON THIS TIME AROUND.

THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH HER CONNECTING WITH VOTERS IN DEFINING WHO SHE WAS.

WHO WAS THIS KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON?

THE MODERATE REPUBLICAN OF 2022, OR IS SHE ALL IN ON DONALD TRUMP AND MAGA IN 2026?

THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION.

TED: HELEN, WHAT DID YOU SEE AS FAR AS THIS CAMPAIGN.

IT NEVER CAUGHT FIRE, NEVER HAD TRACTION?

>> I THINK, LIKE YOU SAID, THERE WAS SOME CONTEMPLATION OF HOW LONG IT WOULD LAST.

A YEAR AGO EXACTLY TO THE DAY SHE DECIDED SHE WOULD NO LONGER STAY IN THE RUNNING, WHAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IS HOW GOVERNOR HOBBS DECIDES TO MOVE FORWARD NOW THAT THERE IS PERHAPS A MORE CLEAR CONTENDER SHE'S GOING TO BE FACING AS WELL.

TED: LITTLE MORE CLEAR FOR REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.

>> UH-HUH, PERHAPS.

THERE IS STILL A POSSIBILITY THAT FOLKS ARE SAYING THAT EVEN THOUGH ANDY BIGGS IS THE ONE WHO STILL HAS THE NOW SOLE TRUMP BACKING, WE COULD STILL SEE SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING THE TRUMP BACKING MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME POWER THAT IT ONCE DID THIS TIME LAST YEAR OR BEFORE THEN, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS ON BOTH.

TED: WE GOT BIGGS AND SCHWEIKERT AS FAR AS THE REPUBLICAN SIDE IS CONCERNED.

SO THAT ALSO KIND OF EVENS OUT THE FIELD AS FAR AS TRUMP ENDORSEMENTS ARE CONCERNED.

THERE'S ONLY ONE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT IN THE RACE NOW.

>> FOR NOW.

TED: THAT'S TRUE.

>> HE DOUBLE ENDORSED HAMADEH A FEW YEARS AGO RIGHT BEFORE THAT STARTED.

WE'LL SEE.

IT DOES CLEAR THE FIELD FOR BIGGS THAT KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON GOT THE EARLY RACE SOFT ENDORSEMENTS FROM TRUMP.

HE SHOWED UP ON STAGE, AND HE WAS LIKE, KARRIN, WE'D LOVE FOR YOU TO RUN.

AND RAN A FEW MONTHS LATER, AND EVERYONE RAN WITH THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT AND ANDY BIGGS GOT INTO THE RACE.

THAT'S WHERE THE MOMENTUM ENDED FOR KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON, AND SHE'S BEEN CAUGHT BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE.

SHE'S TRYING TO BE A MODERATE LIKE REPUBLICANS WANTED HER TO BE AFTER KARI LAKE COULDN'T BEAT HOBBS LAST TIME AROUND AND WENT FULL MAGA TO WIN OVER THE VOTERS SHE COULDN'T GET LAST TIME.

SHE'S TRYING TO BE TWO THINGS AND ENDED UP BEING NEITHER.

TED: AS FAR AS THE REMAINING CANDIDATES, BIGGS AND SCHWEIKERT.

IT HAS TO HELP SCHWEIKERT.

>> IT HELPS SCHWEIKERT A LOT.

HE HAS A BIG HILL TO CLIMB IN TERMS OF FUND-RAISING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SEEMS LIKE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THE FOLKS, THE PARTY IS GETTING BEHIND IS STARTING TO GET BEHIND ANDY BIGGS AND MOVE FORWARD AT THIS POINT.

THIS IS A PERSON, A GUY WHO CAN GO INTO OFFICE AND MAKE THE CLAIM, I'M READY TO GOVERN FROM DAY ONE.

HE'S BEEN THE SENATE PRESIDENT NOW.

I KNOW DAVID SCHWEIKERT HAS A HISTORY AT THE LEGISLATURE, BUT BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE HE'S BEEN DOWN THERE.

THAT WILL BE THE BIG QUESTION MOVING FORWARD.

DOES DAVID SCHWEIKERT STICK IT OUT?

IS KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON GOING TO END UP ENDORSING ANDY BIGGS MOVING FORWARD?

CAN THE PARTY GET BEHIND AND UNIFY BEHIND A SINGLE PARTY.

TED: SHE DIDN'T ENDORSE ANYONE IN THE SUSPENSION OF THIS CAMPAIGN, WHO DO YOU SEE HER THROWING HER WEIGHT BEHIND?

>> IMPOSSIBLE FOR US TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT SHE'LL DECIDE, BUT I THINK THAT HER RESPONSE, IT IS CLEAR SHE WANTS TO SEE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY UNIFY, SO I THINK IT WILL BE PRETTY CLEAR BASED OFF HER RESPONSE HOW THEY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD AND PUT THE BACKING BEHIND BOTH IN TERMS OF MONEY AND OTHER SUPPORT.

TED: IS SHE A VIABLE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CANDIDATE AT ALL?

>> I MEAN, I'VE HEARD SPECULATION, I WAS TOLD BY REPUBLICAN CONSULTANTS AND THINGS, PERHAPS.

SHE DOES CHECK CERTAIN BOXES THAT, LET'S SAY, IF HE WINS THE NOMINATION, ANDY BIGGS WOULD LIKE.

IN TERMS OF MONEY.

BIGGS HAS THE BACKING OF TPUSA BUT ON ITS OWN IS NOT A PROLIFIC FUND-RAISER.

SHE HAS A LOT OF HER OWN MONEY TO THROW BEHIND THE CAMPAIGN, AND HAS THE PRO-BUSINESS REPUBLICAN FIRST PERSONA THAT HE WOULD NEED IN A GENERAL ELECTION TO POTENTIALLY CONVINCE SOME OF THE VOTERS WHO REPUBLICANS, INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR KATIE HOBBS LAST TIME COME BACK TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

SHE CHECKS SOME BOXES.

IT GOES BACK TO FORMER GOVERNOR DUCEY, WHEN PEOPLE ASKED IF HE WANTED TO RUN FOR SENATE?

IS SHE OKAY TAKING A STEP BACK FROM BEING IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, BEING HER OWN BOSS TO TAKING A BACK SEAT TO A GOVERNOR BIGGS OR SOMEONE LIKE THAT.

>> THE HINT IS SHE HASN'T RUN FOR ANYTHING BEFORE.

SHE WANTS TO BE GOVERNOR.

DENNIS, LET'S MOVE ON HERE.

ANOTHER REPUBLICAN TAX PLAN GETS THE HEAVE-HO FROM THE NINTH FLOOR?

>> NO BIG SURPRISE HERE.

THE GOVERNOR IS VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT SHE WANTS UNTIL REPUBLICANS START GIVING HER OTHER THINGS WHAT SHE'S ASKING FOR.

I DON'T SEE THIS GETTING RESOLVED ANY TIME SOON RIGHT NOW.

WE KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO BE A BIG FIGHT HEADING INTO THE LEGISLATURE AND PROVED TO BE VERY TRUE.

IT IS NOTHING BUT A BIG FIGHT RIGHT NOW, AND I THAN PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED, THE GOVERNOR IS CONCERNED ABOUT BLOWING BIGGER HOLES IN THE BUDGET, STATE FINANCES AREN'T LOOKING GREAT, AND DEPENDING WHO YOU TALK TO, IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET WORSE.

TED: THIS ONE ALIGNED WITH TAX FORMS ALREADY OUT THERE.

THAT'S WHAT THE REPUBLICANS THOUGHT, THIS MIGHT HAVE A BETTER -- DID THEY THINK IT HAD A BETTER SHOT OR KNOW THIS WAS GOING TO GET SHOT DOWN?

>> I MEAN, THEY DID SAY THERE WERE FORMS THAT WERE ALIGNING WITH HOBBS' DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, AND SO, BY THAT LEVEL OF THINKING, MAYBE THEY HAD THAT TRAIN OF THOUGHT, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THERE WAS ANY POSSIBILITY OF THIS.

TED: AND THE GOVERNOR IS BASICALLY SAYING THIS NEEDS TO BE NEGOTIATED.

SHE'S GOT HER MIDDLE-CLASS TAX CUT PLAN.

SHE'S SAYING, I THINK SHE CALLED IT POLITICAL THEATER, TIME TO NEGOTIATE.

IS THAT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

>> AS OF NOW, THE BILLS, HER MIDDLE-CLASS TAX CUT BILLS ARE REMAINING UNTOUCHED BY THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY, SO BOTH SIDES ARE ESSENTIALLY ARGUING THAT THEY ARE NOT COMING TO THE TABLE TO NEGOTIATE, AND SO IT'S UNCLEAR WHAT THE NEXT STEPS WILL BE.

I THINK BOTH OF THEM ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WORKS FOR THEM POLITICALLY, BUT ALSO IT'S AS PEOPLE HAVE POINTED OUT, TIME IS TICKING AS WELL.

TED: AND THE BUSINESS TAX CUTS AND THE STATE AND LOCAL DEDUCTIONS ARE THINGS THAT THE DEMOCRATS DON'T WANT TO SEE.

THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T WANT TO SEE, BUT THE REPUBLICANS KEEP SEEING IT?

>> IN SOME CASES, THE REPUBLICANS' ORIGINAL PLAN DIDN'T INCLUDE STATE AND LOCAL TAX DEDUCTIONS.

THEY REMOVED THINGS, TOO.

AT THIS POINT, THEY'RE SAYING IT'S TOO LATE.

PEOPLE ARE FILING THEIR TAXES.

WE NEED TO PROVIDE CERTAINTY, BUT THEN AGAIN, THE GOVERNOR REPEATEDLY SAID I'M NOT GOING TO SIGN ANY OF THIS STUFF.

IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE TWO SIDES BUTTING HEADS, NO SIDE IS WILLING TO COMPROMISE OTHER THAN REPUBLICANS PUTTING FORWARD WHAT'S ON THE TAX FORMS RIGHT NOW.

WE SEE THIS EVERY SESSION.

WE SEE SOME ISSUE WHERE THAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED AND IT USUALLY DOESN'T GET RESOLVED UNTIL WE HIT A DEADLINE.

I SAY TOWARDS THE END OF MARCH WHEN PEOPLE NEED TO FILE, WE MIGHT SEE FINALLY COOLER HEADS PREVAIL AND COOLER COMPROMISE.

TED: THIS DOES AFFECT A LOT OF FOLKS.

>> FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS AND ON.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE TIMING OF THE ESSENCE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE FILING TAXES.

TO WAYNE'S POINT, UNTIL THEY GET A HARD, FAST DEADLINE, I DON'T SEE THIS MOVING FORWARD.

YOU KNOW, UNTIL THEY START FEELING THE PUBLIC PRESSURE FROM TAXPAYERS, CAN YOU GIVE US CERTAINTY?

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, BOTH SIDES ARE GOING TO BE PLAYING THE BLAME GAME TRYING TO BLAME THE OTHER SIDE FOR THE REASON WHY THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING OR WHAT THEY CAN DO WHEN THEY FILE TAXES.

TED: HELEN, WE'LL START WITH YOU, AND MARK KELLY, THE JUDGE BASICALLY TEMPORARILY BLOCKS THE DEFENSE SECRETARY'S ACTIONS AGAINST SENATOR KELLY.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> YEAH, SO SENATOR KELLY IS NOW COMING AWAY WITH THIS SAYING IT'S A WIN FOR HIM, AND THE JUDGE WAS PRETTY CLEAR IN THIS INSTANCE SAYING THAT SENATOR KELLY HAS THE SAME FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AS ANYONE, MAYBE MORE, AS A POLITICIAN, AND SAYING HE DOES HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHAT HE SAID IN THE VIDEO FROM LAST YEAR, SAYING THAT MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO NOT FOLLOW ILLEGAL ORDERS, BUT DID NOT SPECIFY WHAT THE ORDERS COULD BE.

TED: BASICALLY THE JUDGE SAID HEGSETH SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR THE WISDOM FROM FOLKS LIKE THIS WITH THE EXPERTISE AND EXPERIENCE.

THAT COULDN'T HAVE GONE OVER WELL AT THE PENTAGON.

>> THAT'S SOMETHING THEY'RE GOING TO BE APPEALING, IT'S BEEN SAID BY THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.

SO WE'LL SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT ON THAT END, BUT FOR NOW, THIS IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT SENATOR KELLY IS HAPPY ABOUT.

TED: THE APPEAL ANNOUNCEMENT WAS SNARKY WITH, I BELIEVE, THE DEFENSE SECRETARY SAYING, WE WILL APPEAL OO SEDITION IS SEDITION, CAPTAIN, END QUOTE.

IT IS AWFULLY PERSONAL, ISN'T IT?

>> SEEMS TO BE.

A LOT OF DEMOCRATS, INCLUDING SENATOR KELLY, SAY DEFENSE SECRETARY HAS LIMITED MILITARY EXPERIENCE AND MUCH LESS EXPERIENCE THAN SENATOR KELLY.

YOU SEE A LOT OF SNIPING BACK AND FORTH ON THESE.

HE MADE THE STATEMENT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WHICH IS WHAT WE DO NOW, TALKING ABOUT OFFICIAL ACTION AND LAWSUITS, BUT, YES, THE JUDGE WAS UNEQUIVOCAL.

REPUBLICAN APPOINTED JUDGE, SHOULD BE POINTED OUT BY FORMER PRESIDENT BUSH.

>> I'M STRUCK BY, WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS AGAIN?

WHY DO YOU WANT TO APPEAL THEN?

I'M SAYING THANK YOU, SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER?

HE TOOK ONE BEATING.

ISN'T THAT ENOUGH?

THEY COULDN'T GET AN INDICTMENT.

SAME PEOPLE WHO COULDN'T GET A GRAND JURY TO INDICT HIM ON THIS.

YOU CAN INDICT A HAM SANDWICH ON ANYTHING, BUT TRY GETTING A CONVICTION.

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO KEEP THIS IN THE NEWS CYCLE?

I JUST FEEL THAT THIS IS A BAD LOOK FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION.

YOU'RE GOING AFTER A NAVY CAPTAIN, AN ASTRONAUT, WHO JUST STATED THE LAW.

TED: YOU CAN'T SAY NO, YOU CAN'T LOOK LIKE A LOSER IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM IF YOU'RE IN THE ADMINISTRATION RIGHT NOW.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, HER TESTIMONY IN CONGRESS.

I MEAN, GOODNESS GRACIOUS, YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP PRESSING FORWARD, BUT TO DENNIS'S POINT, THIS IS RAISING THE PROFILE OF SENATOR KELLY QUITE A BIT, ISN'T IT?

>> SUBSTANTIALLY.

HE'S TAKEN THE OPPORTUNITY AND RUNNING WITH IT IN TERMS OF FINANCES.

THERE WAS A SEVERAL MILLION DOLLAR FIGURE THAT CAME OUT AT THE LAST QUARTER OF LAST YEAR HOW HIS CAMPAIGN FARED AND THEY'RE TRYING TO PUSH THIS OUT AS MUCH AS THEY CAN, AND THEY'LL CONTINUE TO DO SO.

>> THAT'S A GREAT POINT BECAUSE HE'S NOT UP FOR RUNNING AGAIN.

HE WON A SIX-YEAR TERM, HE'S NOT UP FOR A COUPLE OF CYCLES, BUT EVERYBODY IS LOOKING AT HIM, SAYING MAYBE 2028, WITH THE KIND OF MONEY HE'S RAISING IN THE OFF-YEAR, HE CAN BE GENEROUS AND START HELPING OUT FRIENDS IN THE SENATE IN CONGRESS OR OTHER PLACES TO HELP THEM WIN ELECTIONS, AND THAT CAN BUY YOU A LOT OF SUPPORT IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO TAKE THAT NEXT STEP.

THAT'S SOMETHING TO KEEP YOUR EYE ON.

AGAIN, YOU WANT TO KEEP BOLSTERING SENATOR KELLY'S PROFILE ON THIS.

I'M SURE HE'S HAPPY THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

TED: YOU CAN'T GET THE GRAND JURY TO INDICT.

YOU HAVE A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER.

THIS BLOCK HERE.

HE WON.

IT'S 2-0.

2-0 AGAINST THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

LOT OF DEMOCRATS CAN'T SAY THAT, AND IF THEY COULD, THEY WOULDN'T TRUMPET IT THE WAY HE IS.

HE'S GOING ON NATIONAL TELEVISION CONSTANTLY AND SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, FRANKLY.

>> HIS NAME WAS FLOATED AS A VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE LAST TIME AROUND WHEN THE DEMOCRATS CALLED AN AUDIBLE TOWARDS THE END OF THE ELECTION SEASON.

YOU GOT TO BELIEVE THAT'S AT THE BACK OF HIS MIND.

HE'S NOT THE ONLY SENATOR IN ARIZONA ACCUSED OF POTENTIALLY HAVING PRESIDENTIAL AMBITIONS AND WHY NOT?

AS YOU MENTIONED, A LOT OF DEMOCRATS CAN'T SAY THEY'VE HAD THIS KIND OF SUCCESS AGAINST THE ADMINISTRATION.

REALLY HELPS WHEN THE THING ON YOUR SIDE IS THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

IT'S GOT A GOOD WINNING TRACK RECORD, BUT YEAH, HE'S DEFINITELY LOOKING LIKE HE IS PUTTING HIS TOES IN THE WATER.

TED: YES, YES.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, TOO, I THINK VOTERS LIKE TO PICK SOMEBODY WHO IS OPPOSITE OF THE PREDECESSOR.

I CAN'T THINK OF SOMEBODY MORE OPPOSITE OF DONALD TRUMP THAN SENATOR MARK KELLY.

SOMEBODY WHO SERVED IN THE MILITARY AS OPPOSED TO SOMEBODY WHO DIDN'T SERVE IN THE MILITARY.

THE WAY KELLY COMPORTS HIMSELF AS TO HOW THE PRESIDENT COMPORTS HIMSELF ARE 180 DEGREES COMPLETE OPPOSITES.

>> ONE THING I WOULD IMAGINE DEMOCRATS LIKE WOULD NOT BE A COMPLETE OPPOSITE, THAT IS SOMEONE WHO FIGHTS.

SOMEONE WHO FIGHTS AND SOMEONE WHO WINS.

IT'S A BIG DEAL.

>> YEAH.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE, YOU KNOW, AS IT'S BROUGHT UP, IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER SIGNS OF POTENTIAL PRESIDENTIAL RUN, BUT I THINK IT'S STILL UP IN THE AIR.

>> OKAY, ALL RIGHT.

WAYNE, TALK ABOUT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND THE COUNTY RECORDER.

PEANUTS ARE FLYING AROUND, TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER.

>> THE LONG LEGAL BATTLE YOUR VIEWERS ARE PROBABLY AWARE OF, THEY DISAGREE WHO CONTROLS.

WHAT HE SUED THE BOARD.

THEY'VE BEEN HASHING THAT OUT IN COURT.

STAFF MEMBERS CLAIMED THERE WAS VOTER DISENFRANCHISEMENT IN THE LAST ELECTION, WHICH IS THE FIRST WE'RE HEARING OF THIS, AND ALARM BELLS WENT OFF AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS SAID THEY WOULD LIKE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT.

THEY SUBPOENAED STAFF MEMBERS.

A JUDGE BLOCKED THE SUBPOENAS OVER CONCERNS IT WOULD AFFECT THE WITNESSES IN THE CASE, BUT NOW THEY'RE SAYING, ACTUALLY THAT BLOCK IS GOING TO GO AWAY AND THEY'RE GOING TO REISSUE THE SUBPOENAS, AND THEY VOTED TO MAKE THE RECORDER HIMSELF COME BEFORE THEM AND TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES.

TED: THAT'S A BIGGIE, HE HAS TO TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES, BECAUSE IF HE DOESN'T, TECHNICALLY THEY CAN SAY ADIOS?

>> THAT'S THE SCREAMING HEADLINE, THEY COULD KICK HIM OUT.

COULD IS DOING A LOT OF WORK HERE.

THEY COULD KICK HIM OUT.

THE QUESTION IS WILL THEY KICK HIM OUT?

I BELIEVE ON THE 18th NEXT WEEK, THEY WANT HIM TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.

IF YOU LOOKED AT THE LAST BOARD MEETING, IT WAS CLEAR THAT THIS COUNTY BOARD HAS HAD IT UP TO HERE WITH JUSTIN HEAP.

IF YOU ARE UPSETTING DEBBIE LESKO AND KATE BROPHY McGEE, IF THEY ARE SPEAKING OUT AGAINST YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO, SIR?

ALL THEY WANT IS ANSWERS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.

THEY FEEL THEY'RE NOT GETTING IT.

THIS HAS BEEN BUILDING SINCE HEAP TOOK OVER AND TOOK OFFICE AT BEGINNING OF '25.

WE'LL SEE IF HE WILL COME AND SHOW UP AND GIVE HIM THE ANSWERS AND SATISFY WITH HIM.

THEY WANT ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS LIKE WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR OFFICE?

SPENDING MONEY ON?

HOW ARE YOU PREPARING FOR UPCOMING MIDTERM ELECTIONS, THINGS THEY FEEL THEY ARE KEPT IN THE DARK NOW.

TED: RECORDER HEAP IS SAYING THE BOARD'S ACTIONS ARE UNHINGED, THEY'RE EMOTIONAL, THEY'RE UNPROFESSIONAL.

THIS HAS BEEN BREWING FOR SO LONG.

IS THERE ANY LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL HERE?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO SEE WHEN HE DOES SHOW UP IN FRONT OF BOARD.

TO YOUR POINT, IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT EVEN PEOPLE WHO WERE IN SUPPORT OF HEAP HAVE COME OUT AND NOW SAID THAT THEY HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND ARE FRUSTRATED WITH HIS ACTIONS, ACCUSING HIM OF THE SAME THING.

THEY WILL HAVE A LOT TO HASH OUT AND A LOT OF WHAT THE JUDGES SAID, IN THIS CASE AS WELL, SAYING THERE IS DISAGREEMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE FIGURED OUT BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES ON THEIR OWN AND THAT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE HAPPENING AS OF YET.

TED: HEAP'S LAWSUIT IS STILL OUT THERE, IS IT NOT?

>> IT'S STILL GOING ON.

THIS IS ALL KIND OF TIED TOGETHER.

ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT THE BOARD IS HAVING IS SAYING ESSENTIALLY THEY'RE HEARING ONE THING IN COURT, ANOTHER THING WHEN HEAP AND STAFF COME BEFORE THEM.

WHAT'S THE TRUTH?

WHETHER IT'S THE VOTER DISENFRANCHISEMENT CLAIMS WHICH HE CONTRADICTED HIMSELF BEFORE THE BOARD, OR HOW THEY'RE SPENDING THE MONEY BECAUSE THE BOARD APPROVED THE BUDGET.

THE EXTREMELY HIGH BALLOT REJECTION RATE IN THE LAST ELECTION.

ALL THESE THINGS THEY WANT ANSWERS ON BUT GETTING FIVE DIFFERENT ANSWERS DEPENDING WHO THEY ASK.

THEY'RE SAYING BRING THE RECEIPTS, THE DOCUMENTATION THAT PROVES EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'RE SAYING SO WE ARE PREPARED FOR THE NEXT ELECTION.

TED: WHICH I IMAGINE WOULD RANKLE HIM TO NO END.

>> HE REACHED OUT TO US, I TALKED TO HIM NUMEROUS TIMES, HAVE NOT HEARD BACK FROM HIM.

I GOT A TEXT MESSAGE SAYING HE WASN'T FEELING WELL THE OTHER DAY.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY INTEND TO RESPOND.

THE LAST CONVERSATION WITH THE COUNTY BOARD WAS ON THURSDAY, AND THEY HADN'T RECEIVED ANY COMMUNICATION FROM THE RECORDER'S OFFICE.

COMMITMENTS HE'S GOING TO SHIP ON EVEN TO THIS MEETING AT THAT POINT.

YOU REVIEW THAT, AND YOU LISTEN TO DEBBIE LESKO, SUPERVISOR LESKO TO CHAIRWOMAN KATE BROPHY McGEE, THEY SAY THESE ARE BASIC QUESTIONS.

>> WHAT IS HE TRYING TO HIDE?

>> YES.

THEY ARE COMPLETELY FRUSTRATED.

STEVE GALLARDO, HE SAID HE'S WORKING COUNTY GOVERNMENT AND BEEN AROUND COUNTY GOVERNMENT FOR THREE DECADES.

NEVER SEEN AN ELECTED OFFICIAL ACT LIKE HEAP IS ACTING.

AGAIN, I'D LOVE TO GET HEAP'S TAKE ON THIS, BUT HE'S NOT SITTING AND TALKING WITH ME RIGHT NOW.

>> HE RAN CLAIMING THAT MORE TRANSPARENCY NEEDED TO BE BROUGHT TO THE OFFICE.

AND I SWEAR IT'S EASIER GETTING YOUR TOOTH PULLED THAN GETTING A COMMENT FROM THIS GUY THAT DOESN'T COME TO HIS TWITTER PAGE.

I WAS OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE WITH OTHER REPORTERS WAITING TO ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION, WHICH IS COMMON PRACTICE IN JOURNALISM.

DONE IT TO REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, COUNCIL PEOPLE, ALL OF THE ABOVE.

AND ACCUSED OF ONE OF HEAP'S ALLIES OF TRYING TO AMBUSH HIM.

I CAN'T GET PHONE CALLS RETURNED, E-MAILS RETURNED, CAN'T GET AN IN-PERSON INTERVIEW.

NOT LOOKING LIKE TRANSPARENCY TO ME.

TED: HE'LL SHOW UP TO KRISTI NOEM TO TALK ABOUT ELECTION PROBLEMS.

HE IS SPOTTED RIGHT THERE.

GOT TIME TO SHOW UP THERE.

TED: ALL RIGHT, HELEN.

THE STATE HAS A PUBLIC NUISANCE LAW THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS USED IN THE PAST.

IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE'S THINKING OF USING IT FOR THE I.C.E.

FACILITY IN SURPRISE?

>> YEAH, SHE CAME OUT THIS WEEK AND BASICALLY SAID SHE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS SHE WOULD LIKE THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO ANSWER WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE CITY OF SURPRISE.

OBVIOUSLY SHE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IT WILL MEAN.

IT DOES APPEAR THAT IS SOMEONE SHE'S ACTIVELY CONSIDERING.

TED: THIS PARTICULAR LAW, WAYNE, IF THE PUBLIC NUISANCE LAW COVERS OFFENSIVE TO THE SENSES ALONG WITH OTHER PARTICULARS.

>> YEAH, I DID A LITTLE DEEP DIVE INTO THE LAWS AND THEY GO WAY, WAY BACK IN THE BRITISH COMMON LAW.

NUISANCE LAWS HAVE EXISTED FAIR LONG TIME, AND ALWAYS A BLACKHOLE WHAT IT ACTUALLY MEANS AND IT'S T GETS RESOLVED BY COURTS, AND THEY TRY AND BALANCE THE LEGAL ACTIVITY HAPPENING BY A BUSINESS OR ORGANIZATION, IN THIS CASE, I.C.E., VERSUS THE PUBLIC HARM.

OFFENSIVE TO THE SENSES, PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUES, OR SOMETHING THAT JUST DISRUPTS THE ENJOYMENT OF PROPERTY BY A COMMUNITY OR NEIGHBORHOOD IS IN THERE.

THAT'S WHERE SHE'S GOING TO LOCK IN WITH THE I.C.E.

FACILITIES, WHERE YOU ARE PLOPPING THIS LARGE DETENTION CENTER IN THE MIDDLE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD.

YOU COULD SEE HOW THAT MIGHT BE OFFENSES TO THE SENSES OR DISRUPT THE ENJOYMENT OF THE NEIGHBORS AND THE PROPERTY.

>>.

>> NOT TRY THIS, YOU CAN FILE LAWSUITS.

WHETHER THEY GO ANYWHERE OR NOT, WE'LL WAIT AND SEE.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S POINT OF VIEW, SHE WANTS TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING.

GET SOME POLITICAL MILEAGE OUT OF THIS.

I HAVE BEEN OUT AND AROUND, PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEAR THE PROPOSED SITE, THEY'RE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMES UP AND BUYS THIS BUILDING AND LEAKS OUT, THERE ARE REPORTS THAT LEAK OUT THAT, OH, WE'RE GOING TO USE THIS AS A PROCESSING FACILITY FOR MIGRANTS.

THE PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT THEIR HOMES AROUND THERE ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT.

THIS SITE IS LESS THAN A MILE AWAY FROM A HIGH SCHOOL.

TED: MAJORITY LATINO HIGH SCHOOL.

>> MAJORITY LATINO HIGH SCHOOL.

YOU TALK TO PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORED, HEY, WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO DO TO YOUR PROPERTY VALUES?

TED: HELEN, THIS IS A WAREHOUSE.

IT WASN'T MADE TO HOUSE 1500 PEOPLE OR HOWEVER MANY YOU GET IN THERE, OR WHAT THE CAPACITY MIGHT BE.

YOU HAVE SANITATION FACILITIES, INFRASTRUCTURE, AND ALL THE TRAFFIC.

SOUNDS LIKE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THINKS THESE ARE WORTHY ENOUGH QUESTIONS?

>> YEAH, AND SHE'S POINTED OUT SOME OF THE -- SCHOOLS, GROCERY STORES IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THAT AREA, AND WHAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE ONLY PLACE WHERE DHS IS PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

THIS COULD POTENTIALLY BRING UP QUESTIONS, ARE THERE OTHER WAYS FOR OTHER LEADERS IN OTHER STATES TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST SOMETHING THEY ARE IN DISAGREEMENT WITH?

OBVIOUSLY THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MAYES IS POTENTIALLY GOING TO CONSIDER.

TED: YEAH, AND WAYNE, THE IDEA OF USING PUBLIC NUISANCE LAWS, GOT THE ATTENTION OF THE LEGISLATURE?

>> THEY'RE RUNNING -- REPUBLICANS ARE RUNNING A FEW DIFFERENT BILLS TO REIN IN THE USE OF IT OR CAUSE PENALTIES IF THE NUISANCE LAW IS DEEMED FRIVOLOUS, HAVING TO PAY DAMAGES.

MAYES HAS STAKED GROUND ON THE PERVASIVE VIEW OF THE NUISANCE LAW.

SHE USED IT TO GO AFTER WATER USERS PUMPING TOO MUCH WATER.

THERE WAS A GRAVEL PIT SHE WENT AFTER IN A NEIGHBORHOOD.

THERE WAS AN ALUMINUM MELTING PLANT THAT IS CAUSING CONSTERNATION.

REPUBLICANS THINK SHE IS TOO PERMISSIVE WITH THAT, THEY WANT TO PUT GUARDRAILS ON IT.

TED: THAT INCLUDES REPUBLICANS IN SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF ARIZONA ARZ, SHE GOT A SETTLEMENT FROM THEM.

>> YOU GOT TO REMIND YOURSELF AND PUT THIS IN CONTEXT.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE IS TRYING TO RUN AGAINST AND DEFEAT HER IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

HE'S GOT TO WIN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY BUT WANTS TO BE THE NEXT ATTORNEY GENERAL.

HE'S LOOKING FOR ANY OPPORTUNITY HE CAN TO SCORE POINTS ON ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES AT THIS POINT.

IT'S AMAZING TO ME THAT THEY GO AHEAD AND FILE BILLS, IF YOU DO THIS FRIVOLOUS NUISANCE LAW THING, YOU COULD BE IN A LOT OF TROUBLE THERE.

LAWSUITS ARE FILED ALL THE TIME FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS AND THERE IS ALREADY LAWS ON THE BOOKS THAT DEAL WITH FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS.

WHY DO YOU NEED THIS?

>> I WOULD PLAY DELVE'S ADVOCATE, THIS IS THE LEGISLATURE'S ROLE, LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, IF THEY BELIEVE THE EXECUTIVE IS OVERREACHING ON THEIR POWER, THEY RUN BILLS.

YOU CAN AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH IT, BUT THAT IS WHAT THE ROLE IS, AND AS DENNIS MENTIONED, THIS COULD REIN IN A FUTURE REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO'S RUNNING.

>> TALK ABOUT AGREEING OR DISAGREEING, I KNOW SOMEONE ON THE NINTH FLOOR WHO IS GOING TO DISAGREE WITH THIS ANYWAYS.

>> YEAH.

[LAUGHTER] >> AND IN ADDITION, WE'VE ALREADY SEEN MAYES RESPOND TO THIS AS WELL.

SHE TOLD MY COLLEAGUE THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT TO KNEECAP HER OFFICE, AND IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COMES TO FRUITION, IT WOULD SEVERELY HAMPER HER ABILITY TO DISCUSS THESE POSSIBILITIES OF LAWSUITS.

TED: THE CHANCE THE GOVERNOR WOULD SIGN SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD BE BELOW ZERO, DO YOU THINK?

>> YES, IT WOULD BE UNLIKELY FOR THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR TO SIGN SOMETHING SO AGGRESSIVE.

TED: HELEN, GOOD TO YOU HAVE TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.