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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FILING CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST A PREDICTION MARKET PLATFORM.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US TONIGHT, JEREMY DUDA FROM AXIOS PHOENIX.

MARK BRODIE FROM KJZZ RADIO AND JESSICA BOEHM ALSO FROM AXIOS PHOENIX.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

JEREMY, START WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GOING AFTER KALSHI, WHAT IS THIS?

WHAT IS A PREDICTION MARKET FOR GOODNESS SAKES?

WE'RE ALL LEARNING ON THE FLY HERE.

>> PREDICTION MARKET, IF YOU THINK OF THE SPORTS WAGERING WEBSITES, YOU BET ON WHO'S IN THE FINAL FOUR OR WIN THE WORLD SERIES, THIS IS A WEBSITE LIKE THAT ONLY CAN YOU BET ON ANYTHING.

YOU CAN BET ON WHETHER THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO ATTACK CUBA.

WHETHER CERTAIN LEGISLATION IS GOING TO PASS.

YOU CAN BET ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND BET ON ARIZONA ELECTIONS, AND THEY TAKE BETS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD ON THESE THINGS AND ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES HAS A BIT OF A PROBLEM WITH THAT, AND SHE'S FILED 20 MISDEMEANOR CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST THIS WEBSITE, WHICH IS FIRST IN THE COUNTRY.

THESE ARE VERY CONTROVERSIAL, A LOT OF STATES ARE GRAPPLING WITH HOW TO REGULATE THESE, AND KRIS MAYES TOOK IT UP A NOTCH AND SAID WE'RE TAKING YOU TO COURT OVER CRIMINAL CHARGES.

TED: MARK, SOUNDS LIKE THERE IS GAMBLING ASPECTS AND STATE LAW.

WAGERING OR PUTTING A CONTRACT ON ELECTIONS IS AGAINST STATE LAW.

>> FOR SURE IT'S AGAINST ARIZONA LAW TO BET ON ELECTIONS.

THERE'S ALSO THE ISSUE OF THE STATE'S GAMING COMPACTS AND THE LAWS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, AND WHETHER THIS PLATFORM IS IN VIOLATION OF THAT.

THERE'S ALSO IN ADDITION TO THE LEGAL QUESTIONS, THERE ARE SORT OF LIKE MORAL, ETHICAL QUESTIONS TO JEREMY'S POINT.

SHOULD PEOPLE BE BETTING WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO BOMB ANOTHER COUNTRY, OR IF POLITICAL VIOLENCE OR SOMETHING ELSE MIGHT KICK OFF?

THERE IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT BETWEEN VOTING, BETTING ON IT WILL BE TOO CLOUDY TO SEE THE SUNSET OR WHAT THE WEATHER IS GOING TO BE, HIT 110 DEGREES OR SOMETHING, VERSUS ARE WE GOING TO WAR.

TED: JESSICA, IT'S ALL FINE AND DANDY FOR STATE LAW.

WE'RE NOT A STATE ENTITY.

WE DEAL NATIONALLY.

THERE'S NO FEDERAL LAW.

AM I GETTING THIS RIGHT?

>> EXACTLY RIGHT.

AS JEREMY ALLUDED TO, STATES HAVE TRIED TO REGULATE THESE THINGS.

WHAT THESE GROUPS HAVE SAID IS WE ARE REGULATED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

I THINK IT'S FUTURES, COMMODITIES AND TRADING COMMISSION, AND TO THEIR CREDIT, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS SIDED WITH THEM AND SAID YEAH, THIS IS OUR ENTITY.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO REGULATE US.

WHAT'S INTERESTING HERE IS THAT AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO PASS A LAW TO REGULATE, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS CHARGED THIS ENTITY, CRIMINAL CHARGES, AND WHAT THIS IS GOING TO PROBABLY LEAD TO IS PROBABLY EVENTUALLY A SUPREME COURT CASE WHERE WE FINALLY DECIDE IS THIS BETTING, OR IS THIS A CONTRACT, AND AN INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY?

TED: THAT'S A GOOD POINT, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CONTRACT, AN INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY AND STRAIGHT-ON GAMBLING.

>> IF YOU AND I ARE SITTING ON OUR PHONE PUTTING BETS ON ELECTIONS, NOT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE THERE.

LEGALLY THERE MAY BE A DISTINCTION, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO FIND THAT OUT PRETTY SOON WHEN THIS GOES TO COURT ALONG WITH QUESTIONS, AS JESSICA MENTIONED ABOUT, WHO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO REGULATE THIS?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S HAND WAS FORCED HERE.

MAY HAVE BEEN A LITTLE FORCED BECAUSE KALSHI WENT TO COURT AGAINST ARIZONA, THEY SENT A CEASE-AND-DESIST LETTER TO KALSHI AND POLYMARKET, NOT FACING CRIMINAL CHARGES HERE.

CEASE-AND-DESIST LETTER SAYING THEY'RE VIOLATING STATE LAW IN ONLINE WAGERING.

THEY WANTED TO GET A PREEMPTIVE RULING BEFORE ANY ACTION TAKING NOW.

THE STATE HAS TAKEN ACTION OF ITS OWN, WE'RE GOING TO SORT THIS OUT IN COURT, FEDERAL, STATE OR BOTH.

TED: THUS, MARK, THE FIRST STATE TO FILE SUIT AGAINST THIS?

>> IT WILL BE INTERESTING, AND PRECEDENT SETTING WHAT THE COURTS HERE DO ON THIS.

ALTHOUGH, IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT DIFFERENT STATES HAVE DIFFERENT LAWS RELATED TO GAMING AND GAMBLING.

SO TO THE EXTENT THAT STATE LAWS ARE APPLICABLE TO JESSICA'S POINT, AND I DON'T KNOW TO WHAT EXTENT THEY ARE APPLICABLE.

MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM ONE STATE TO ANOTHER, BUT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE COURTS STAY HERE.

TED: THAT'S THE ARGUMENT, WE SHOULDN'T BE BOUND BY THE HODGEPODGE, THE HOPSCOTCHING AROUND THE COUNTRY WITH THE DIFFERENT STATE LAWS?

>> IT WILL BE INTERESTING.

IF THE COURTS SAY YOU'RE OPERATING IN THESE STATES, YOU NEED TO ABIDE BY STATE LAWS OR IF NOT.

TED: LARRY SABADO IS A BIG ELECTION PROGNOSTICATOR, PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HIS PREDICTIONS, HE HAD ARIZONA -- FOR THE GOVERNOR'S RACE -- AS A TOSS-UP, NOT ANYMORE, HUH?

>> NOT ANYMORE.

WE'VE MOVED INTO A LEAN DEMOCRAT, WHICH IS SURPRISING TO SOME, BUT PROBABLY SPEAKS A LOT TO THE STATE OF THE NATION RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE STILL AT A POINT WHERE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT WHAT'S HAPPENING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, AND NOW YOU SEE WITH THE WAR IN IRAN, PRICES GOING UP, AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AND THAT'S REALLY CREATING A SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT SUPER THRILLED WITH THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY, AND THEY'RE TAKING THAT OUT DIRECTLY IN THEIR OPINIONS AT THIS POINT, ON THESE LOWER LEVEL RACES LIKE THE GOVERNOR'S RACE IN ARIZONA.

TED: MARK, IS THAT THE BIG PUSH, THE IDEA THAT DEMOCRATS ARE SIMPLY MORE MOTIVATED RIGHT NOW IS.

>> WE CERTAINLY HAVE SEEN THAT IN OTHER PRIMARIES AND OTHER ELECTIONS THAT BOTH LAST YEAR AND SO FAR THIS YEAR WHERE, DEMOCRATIC TURNOUT IN THE TEXAS U.S.

SENATE RACE, DEMOCRATIC TURNOUT WAS HIGHER THAN IT'S BEEN IN QUITE SOME TIME.

THERE IS A LOT OF MOTIVATION.

IT'S WORTH NOTING IT'S A LONG WAY AWAY FOR THE ELECTION, AND THE REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE THE NOMINEE OFFICIAL YET, AND A LOT CAN CHANGE BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER.

>> THE FACT THAT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE THE NOMINEE MEANS THE TWO REPUBLICANS ARE STARTING TO FIGHT A LITTLE HERE.

DAVID SCHWEIKERT IS COMING OUT AGAINST ANDY BIGGS -- CONGRESSMAN SCHWEIKERT, CONGRESSMAN BIGGS, SAYING BIGGS IS TOO RADICAL FOR THE STATE.

I CAN SEE WHERE THEY SAY HEY, THAT HELPS THE OTHER SIDE.

>> BIGGS BEING THE NOMINEE WOULD HELP BECAUSE HE'S CERTAINLY FURTHER TO THE RIGHT, KALSHI HAS HIM AT OVER 9% ODDS BY THE WAY, THE DEMOCRATS AT ABOUT 71% TO WIN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, BUT YEAH, BIGGS HAS BEEN THE FRONT-RUNNER FOR A LONG TIME REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HIS OPPONENT IS KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON, WHO IS NO LONGER IN THE RACE OR DAVID SCHWEIKERT?

SCHWEIKERT HAS BEEN THROWING PUNCHES.

HE'S BEEN KNOWN TO THROW PUNCHES IN HIS CAMPAIGN IN THE PAST, AND AT THIS POINT, THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IF YOU'RE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN IN THE PRIMARY, YOU HAVE TO TAKE SWIPES AT THE FRONT-RUNNER.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HAPPEN NOW.

YOU'LL SEE IT A LOT MORE IN THE NOT-TOO-DISTANT FUTURE.

TED: I THINK SABADO OR THE ELECTION PROGNOSTICATORS SAYING BECAUSE THERE IS NO SENATE RACE IN ARIZONA, WE HAVE A LOT OF STATEWIDE RACES BUT NO SENATE RACE, THE NATIONAL PICTURE WILL PLAY MORE SO ON THE GOVERNOR'S RACE AND THEY'RE SEEING DISCONTENT WITH TRUMP IS A FACTOR HERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THAT'S NOT ONLY GOING TO AT LEAST AT THIS POINT HASN'T ONLY PLAYED OUT IN OTHER ELECTIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH DEMOCRATS BEING MORE FIRED UP, BUT PLAYED WITH MODERATES OR INDEPENDENTS OR NO PARTY DESIGNATEDS, LEANING MORE TOWARDS THE LEFT AS KIND OF AN AFFRONT TO TRUMP.

>> YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT TRUMP IS SUCH A TURNOUT MOTIVATOR FOR HIS BASE.

YOU'VE SEEN THAT IN THREE CONSECUTIVE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, IF HE'S NOT ON THE BALLOT, A LOT OF THE FOLKS AREN'T GOING TO COME OUT.

REMEMBER IN 2018, THE ECONOMY WAS GOING GREAT, THINGS WERE LOOKING UP AND THE REPUBLICANS STILL GOT CREAMED IN THE MIDTERM ELECTION BECAUSE FOLKS WERE NOT HAPPY WITH TRUMP.

THINGS ARE NOT LOOKING NEARLY AS GOOD NOW AS THEY WERE IN 2018.

>> YOU LOOKED AT THE EFFECT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP, ANDY BIGGS, AS KALSHI IS SUGGESTING HE WILL BE, TIED CLOSELY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP.

TURNING POINT IS REALLY, REALLY BACKING HIM, AND HE'S A VERY CLOSE ALLY OF THE PRESIDENT.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW MUCH THAT PLAYS LESS IN THE PRIMARY BUT MORE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

TED: I IMAGINE SABADO WOULD PROBABLY SAY SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES, LET'S HANDICAP THE PRIMARY.

BIGGS WOULD PROBABLY WIN RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF PRIMARIES, BUT THAT WOULD, IN TURN, HELP A HOBBS.

>> THAT'S THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM AS JEREMY SAID, GOVERNOR HOBBS IS HELPED, BETTER FOR HER IF CONGRESSMAN BIGGS IS THE NOMINEE.

REALITY IS WHO KNOWS?

>> JESSICA, WHO IS CODY RYAN, AND WHY IS HE IN THE DISTRICT?

>> CODY RHYME WAS SELECTED BY THE MARICOPA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, ACTIVE IN THE RIO VERDE WATER CRISIS AND NOW A MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATURE.

TED: YOU MENTIONED THE CORPORATION COMMISSION -- THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HERE, ONE SUPERVISOR IN PARTICULAR, THOMAS GALVAN, WAS VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF CODY RHYME, NOT VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF THE OTHER NAMES ON THE LIST.

>> WORTH NOTING, ONE OF THE NAMES ON THE LIST, MICHELLE UGENTI-RITA RAN AGAINST TOM GALVIN YEARS AGO, THERE'S NOT BEEN MUCH LOVE LOST BEFORE OR AFTER THAT.

IT WAS UNSURPRISING HE DIDN'T ADVOCATE FOR HER, AND THE OTHER ON THE LIST IS GEORGE CALIFF, WHO THE PRECINCT MEMBERS DID SUPPORT.

TOM GALVIN SAID THIS WAS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.

TED: YEAH, AND WE SHOULD MENTION THAT MICHELLE UGENTI-RITA TOLD "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" THE REASON GALVIN DID NOT CHOOSE HER OR GIVE HER A QUESTIONNAIRE PRIOR TO IS QUOTE, HE IS THREATENED BY STRONG, CONSERVATIVE WOMEN LIKE MYSELF.

>> I'M GOING TO SAY THE REASON WHERE SHE CHALLENGED HIM WAS KIND OF AN UGLY RACE.

SO I DON'T THINK -- I'M KIND OF SURPRISED SHE WOULD EVEN PUT IN FOR THAT, GIVEN BY TRADITION, THE SUPERVISOR WHOSE DISTRICT COVERS THE VACANCY, THEY MAKE THE DECISION FIRST.

KNOWING WHO IS GOING TO BE MAKING THAT PICK, IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT CODY RHYME AND GEORGE CALIFF, WHO DIDN'T GET THE NOD, THEY PREVIOUSLY FILED TO RUN FOR THIS.

THERE'S GOING TO BE TWO OPEN SEATS THERE, JUSTIN CHAPLIK, THAT HELPS CODY RHYME.

TED: DOES CODY RHYME CHANGE THE NATURE OF THE LEGISLATURE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM?

>> NOT REALLY, THE NEW LEGISLATOR HAD TO BE FROM THE SAME PARTY AS THE ONE WHO DEPARTED.

HAD TO BE REPUBLICAN.

HE JOINED THE FREEDOM CAUCUS, WHICH JOSEPH CHAPLIK WAS ALSO A MEMBER OF.

OTHER THAN BEING THERE TO COVER THE BUDGET AND OTHER SIGNIFICANT LEGISLATION, DOESN'T CHANGE THE JOINS OF THE PARTISAN SPLIT, IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE NATURE OF THE CAUCUS, I DON'T THINK.

TED: STICKING WITH YOU, MARK.

WE HAD A COURT HEARING THIS WEEK, YET AGAIN.

REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS NOT HAPPY WITH THE ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY.

>> YEAH, SOMETHING THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS CAN AGREE ON.

THEY DON'T WANT THE PARTY TO BE CALLED THE ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY.

THIS WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH SAYING ALONG WITH THE CLEAN ELECTIONS COMMISSION THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE BASICALLY OVERSTEPPED AUTHORITY IN GRANTING THE NAME CHANGE FROM THE NO LABELS PARTY TO THE ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY.

FONTES SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY NOT TO GRANT THIS REQUEST.

IT SOUNDS LIKE HIS ARGUMENT WAS WHAT WAS I SUPPOSED TO DO HERE.

SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO SUE ME NO MATTER WHAT I CHOSE TO DO.

I WENT WITH MAKING THE CHANGE.

THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS IN THE CLEAN ELECTIONS COMMISSION SAY IT'S CONFUSING.

A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE STATE CONSIDER THEMSELVES INDEPENDENTS, BUT THAT'S PARTY NOT DESIGNATED.

NOT A MEMBER OF AN ACTUAL INDEPENDENT PARTY.

THAT'S WHAT THE COURTS HAVE TO SORT OUT.

TED: I WOULD THINK IT'S CONFUSING TO EVERYONE INVOLVED HERE.

IS THERE ANY ARIZONA LAW THAT SPECIFICALLY CLARIFIES WHAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE CAN AND CANNOT DO IN SUCH A SITUATION?

>> THERE IS NOT, AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE POINTS OF CONTENTION, BUT ALSO SOMETHING THEY ALL AGREED ON, THE SECRETARY OF STATE AND THE PARTIES SUING HIM ARE LIKE, YEAH, IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY IN STATE LAW, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE IN THIS SITUATION WHERE ADRIAN FONTES SAYS I FOUGHT THAT I HAD TO, AND THE OTHER GROUPS SAY, NO, YOU ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT HAVE, AND NOW THE COURTS HAVE TO DECIDE, AND I THINK IT'S REALLY GOING TO COME DOWN MORE TO THIS NAME, THIS SPECIFIC NAME, ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY.

JUDGE SEEMED TO INDICATE THAT HE UNDERSTOOD, LIKE YOU DO, THAT THAT IS CONFUSIONS.

TED: KIND OF HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC, I THINK.

>> I THINK HE SAID BAIT AND SWITCH AS WELL, WHICH DOESN'T BODE WELL FOR THE INDEPENDENT PARTY.

ASK YOUED IF THERE IS A LAW, NOT YET, BUT COULD SEE ONE SOON.

THE STATE SENATE PASSED A BILL THAT WOULD MAKE IT LEGAL TO USE WORDS LIKE INDEPENDENT OR UNAFFILIATED OR ANYTHING GOING BACK TO THE ISSUE OF WHETHER THAT'S CONFUSING TO VOTERS, THINK OF THE PARTY DESIGNATED AS INDEPENDENT.

THE JUDGE IS SUPPOSED TO RULE NEXT WEEK, AND THEY HAVE TO FIGURE THIS OUT INCLUDING APPEALS QUICKLY, THE DEADLINE TO NOMINATING PETITION SAYS TOMORROW, AND THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS, INCLUDING FOLKS WHO FILED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS WHO FILED TO RUN AS ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY CANDIDATES.

IF THAT GETS OVERTURNED, YOU HAVE TO ASK CAN THE FOLKS BE ON THE BALLOT AS NO LABELS, DOES IT NOT GET ON THE BALLOT AT ALL BECAUSE VOTERS DIDN'T SIGN A PETITION FOR LABELS CANDIDATE.

TED: 40 SOME ODD THOUSAND PEOPLE HAVE REGISTERED FOR THE ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY?

>> IT IS NOT THAT MUCH COMPARED TO THE NUMBER OF VOTERS IN ARIZONA WHO ARE, I GUESS SMALL I INDEPENDENTS, NOT DESIGNATED WITH A PARTY.

THIS IS MUCH MORE THAN ACADEMIC CONVERSATION, TO JEREMY'S POINT, THERE ARE CANDIDATES PLANNING TO RUN ON THE LABEL, AND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET ON THE BALLOT HAVE A LOT FEWER SIGNATURES TO COLLECT AS MEMBERS OF A PARTY THAN IF THEY WERE PURELY INTO SMALL I INDEPENDENT, NOT WITH A PARTY.

IT COULD HAVE SERIOUS REPERCUSSIONS FOR THE ELECTION.

TED: REPERCUSSIONS IN THE TIMING AND CLARIFICATION IN ALL OF THIS.

THE COURTS IN THE PAST HAVE LOOKED INTO THESE KINDS OF FACTORS AND USED THESE AS MITIGATING FACTORS ON RULINGS.

AS YOU MENTIONED, TIME IS RUNNING OUT.

>> YEAH, WE SEE -- WE'LL SEE EXPEDITED SCHEDULES.

YOU WILL SEE CHALLENGES TRYING TO KICK PEOPLE OFF THE BALLOT.

THOSE HAVE TO MOVE QUICKLY.

WHOEVER LOSES WILL OBVIOUSLY APPEAL THIS NEXT WEEK, THAT HAS TO MOVE QUICKLY.

40,000 PEOPLE REGISTERED IN THE PARTY.

MOST OF THE FOLKS REGISTERED UNDER THE NO LABELS PARTY WHICH WAS AN ISSUE FOR THE JUDGE AND THE ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING PEOPLE, THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SHOW UP, HEY, THAT'S NOT MY PARTY, I NEVER REGISTERED AS ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY VOTER.

TED: YOU DON'T GO TO THE POLLS AND NOT VERIFY A VOTER PARTY YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE.

A CONTROLLING ESA, THE OTHER NOT SO STRONG, TALK TO US ABOUT THIS?

>> THIS IS GOING TO BE FASCINATING.

THERE IS OBVIOUSLY THE PRO-PUBLIC SCHOOL GROUP PUSHING A VERY STRONG ESA REFORM WHICH WOULD LIMIT WHO IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE SCHOOL VOUCHER-TYPE SCHOLARSHIPS, AND IT WOULD ALSO PUT PRETTY SERIOUS TRANSPARENCY IN EFFECT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE THINGS THAT PARENTS ARE SPENDING THIS MONEY ON IS NEAR CORRECT.

ON THE OTHER SIDE, WE GOT ANOTHER ESA BALLOT INITIATIVE THIS WEEK THAT IS ACTUALLY BEING BACKED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPORTIVE OF SCHOOL CHOICE, AND THIS IS KIND OF TO GET AHEAD OF THE CONTROVERSY THAT'S BEEN COMING OUT.

THERE BEING SOME PRETTY SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS OF MISSPENDING, AND SO THIS WOULD GO DEEP ON THE TRANSPARENCY, MAKING SURE MONEY IS SPENT CORRECTLY, BUT IT WOULD KEEP ESAs AVAILABLE TO ANYONE WHO WANTS ONE.

>> I THINK THAT SECOND ONE HAS YOU CAN ONLY PURCHASE THINGS ON A MARKET.

THEY HAD TO DEVELOP A MARKETPLACE?

SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES?

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY AN EFFORT TO MAKE IT MORE TRANSPARENT AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE NOT SPENDING MONEY ON THINGS THEY OUGHT NOT TO BE SPENDING MONEY ON, BUT ONE OF THE BIG DIFFERENCES IS A CAP.

THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS GROUP WANTS TO PUT THE INCOME LIMIT IS $150,000.

IF YOU MAKE MORE THAN THAT, YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ESAs.

ANYBODY CAN GET ONE, AND THE SECOND, THE MORE RECENT INITIATIVE WE KEEP IT THAT WAY, THAT THERE IS NO CAP, THAT ANYBODY WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR IT.

TED: AND STATE-APPROVED CURRICULUM WILL BE REQUIRED FOR THE FIRST ONE, THE MORE DRACONIAN ONE.

THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE A PART OF ANY PURCHASE?

>> I THINK THERE'S A CURRICULUM REQUIREMENT FOR -- THERE'S CURRICULUM PROVISIONS FOR THE OTHER ONE, TOO.

IT'S PROBABLY STRICTER.

FIRST ONE IS MEANT TO CRACK DOWN ON A LOT OF ABUSES AND THINGS THAT MAKE HEADLINES.

PEOPLE SPENDING MONEY ON JEWELRY AND LINGERIE AND GOD KNOWS WHAT THAT HAS CLEAR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSE, AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THE PRO-ESA ONE HAS, IN TERMS OF THE LUXURY PURCHASES, ALL THE SAME PROHIBITIONS, THE WORDING MAY HAVE BEEN WORD FOR WORD THE SAME MORE OR LESS, AND THEY'RE TRYING GET AHEAD OF THE NEGATIVE HEADLINES AND THE AUDITS THAT WE'VE SEEN.

YOU CAN ARGUE THAT AS A SMALL NUMBER OF FOLKS ABUSING THE PROGRAM IS PROBABLY A SMALL MEMBER.

IT MAKES PEOPLE SAY HEY, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROGRAM, AND THE AMERICAN FEDERATION FOR CHILDREN CAME OUT IMMEDIATELY AND SAID WE'RE SUPPORTING THIS, THIS IS COMING OUT FROM THE UNION-BACKED INITIATIVE.

THEY'RE GOING TO FUND, THIS CAN YOU SEE THIS AS AN ATTEMPT TO HEAD OFF THIS MUCH STRONGER MEASURE, SO IF THEY GET TO THE BALLOT, AND THIS IS A TALL ORDER FOR BOTH OF THEM GIVEN HOW LATE IN THE ELECTION SEASON IT IS, IF THEY GET ONTO THE BALLOT, OUTSIDE OF THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, PROBABLY THE MOST FASCINATING FIGHT ON THE BALLOT THIS YEAR.

>> PROBABLY YOU WILL SEE A SPLIT IN THE SCHOOL CHOICE CROWD, YOU HAVE THE AMERICAN FEDERATION FOR EDUCATION PUSHING FOR IT.

THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION FOLKS ARE SAYING ABSOLUTELY NOT.

YOU WILL SEE A SPLIT WITHIN SCHOOL CHOICE GROUPS IF THEY SUPPORT THIS AT ALL.

TED: IS THE SPLIT LEADING TO CONFUSION?

>> I'M CERTAIN IT WILL, BUT MORE INTERESTING TO ME IS, LIKE THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A GROUP OF PEOPLE, THE AMERICAN FEDERATION FOR CHILDREN, THAT REALIZE, OH, WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM HERE, AND WE NEED TO FIND WAYS TO PUT TRANSPARENCY INTO EFFECT OR WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THIS ALTOGETHER, AND THERE'S A WHOLE OTHER ARGUMENT OF, NO, THIS IS A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE, WE'RE MAKING TOO MUCH HEY OUT OF NOTHING AND WE DON'T THINK WE NEED ANY MORE REGULATION.

TED: TOO MANY INITIATIVES, PEOPLE VOTE NO.

>> THERE IS TWO INTERESTING POTENTIAL ASPECTS AT PLAY HERE.

YES, IF THERE ARE TWO INITIATIVES ON THE SAME TOPIC, CONVENTIONAL WISDOM IS VOTERS WILL VOTE NO ON BOTH BECAUSE IT'S CONFUSING AND TRYING TO FIND THE DIFFERENCES, BUT THERE'S ALSO THE POSSIBILITY THEY BOTH PASS.

IN WHICH CASE THE INITIATIVE THAT GETS THE MOST VOTES IS ONE THAT WINS.

SO YOU COULD HAVE A SITUATION WHERE BOTH OF THESE ARE APPROVED BY 50% PLUS ONE OR MORE, AND YOU HAVE TO SEE WHICH ONE ACTUALLY GETS THE MOST VOTES TO SEE WHICH ONE TAKES EFFECT.

TED: YEAH, AND THAT IS POSSIBLE, IS IT NOT, JEREMY?

>> VERY POSSIBLE.

WE'VE SEEN THINGS LIKE THAT HAPPEN BEFORE WHERE TWO BALLOT MEASURES PASS THEM, AND TO JESSICA'S POINT, IF THERE ARE SCHOOL ESA SUPPORTERS VOTING NO BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT NEW REGULATIONS, THAT'S NOT GOING TO BODE WELL FOR THAT MEASURE IF BOTH PASS.

TED: IF BOTH FAIL, WE'RE BACK TO WHERE WE ARE.

>> BACK TO WHERE WE ARE.

TED: YEAH?

>> ONE OTHER POINT THAT IS INTERESTING, IF ONE OR BOTH PASS, IF THE MORE MODERATE ONE PASSES, SUPPOSE THE DEMOCRATS ACHIEVE THEIR DREAM OF TAKING THE LEGISLATURE AND WANT TO ADD NEW RESTRICTIONS ON THIS, THIS IS VOTER PROTECTED.

IT CAN NOT BE AMENDED BY THE LEGISLATURE, THAT'S SOMETHING THE ESA CRITICS HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.

TED: I WAS GOING TO SAY ON BOTH SIDES, THE MORE HARSH ONE.

>> IF THE HARSHER ONE PASSES, HOBBS CAN COME BACK NEXT YEAR AND UNDO IT.

TED: JESSICA, KARI LAKE LOST AGAIN.

THIS TIME THE JUDGE ORDERS A THOUSAND JOURNALISTS BACK TO WORK, ALL PUT ON ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVE BY LAKE FOR THE VOICE OF AMERICA BUSINESS?

>> THE PARENT ORGANIZATION OF VOICE OF AMERICA THAT KARI LAKE WAS SORT OF THE CEO OF.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM IS SHE WASN'T ABLE LEGAL TO BE.

SHE HAD NO AUTHORITY TO DO THIS.

THE JOURNALISTS ON LEAVE FOR A YEAR ABOUT ARE NOW GOING TO BE, I THINK BY MONDAY, HAVE TO BE BACK TO WORK.

>> THE JUDGE CALLED HER DECISION HASTY AND ILL CONCEIVED.

IT'S NOT A GOOD LUCK, BUT FOR KARI LAKE, IS THIS A BADGE OF HONOR?

>> I MEAN, I GUESS.

SHE WAS DOING WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED HER TO DO WHEN HE APPOINTED HER, KIND OF, TO THIS POSITION, AND, YEAH, I THINK WE'VE NOT SEEN ANY SHORTAGE OF HER BAD-MOUTHING JUDGES AND THEIR RULINGS OVER OTHER ISSUES OVER THE YEARS, SO YEAH, THIS COULD PERHAPS BE SEEN AS A BADGE OF HONOR FOR HER.

TED: AND THE DUTIES ARE ORDER BY CONGRESS.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT OF THIN AIR?

>> THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU NEEDED APPROVAL.

THAT'S WHAT THE RULING CAME DOWN TO THAT TRUMP DIDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO PUT HER IN THE WAY SHE DID.

THERE'S NO CONFIRMATION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

WE'RE BACK TO SQUARE ONE FROM WHERE WE WERE A YEAR AGO.

TED: ANOTHER SETBACK FOR KARI LAKE.

DOES IT MATTER IF SHE HAS A POLITICAL FUTURE WHETHER IT'S IN IOWA OR ARIZONA, DOES THIS MATTER IN THE MAGA CROWD?

>> I DON'T THINK THIS SPECIFIC THING MATTERS AT ALL.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS ABOUT KARI LAKE, AND THERE HAVE BEEN RUMORS LIKE SHE'S HAD A FALLOUT WITH THE PRESIDENT, THEY'RE NOT AS CLOSE AS THEY USED TO BE.

SHE'S VERY MUCH A CHARACTER IN THAT WORLD, AND SO IN THE RIGHT DISTRICT AT THE RIGHT TIME, SURE, KARI LAKE CAN WIN.

TED: ALL RIGHT, BEFORE WE GO, MARK, THE CESAR CHAVEZ STORY, A VERY TROUBLING STORY, IN ALL WAYS HERE.

"NEW YORK TIMES" INVESTIGATING ABUSE, GROOMING OF CHILDREN.

IT'S HORRIBLE.

DOLORES HUERTA, AN ICON IN THE FARMWORKERS MOVEMENT, THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, HAD CLAIMS AGAINST HIM AS WELL.

SOUNDS LIKE COMMUNITIES, STATES, OFFICIALS, THEY CAN'T WAIT TO TAKE HIS NAME OFF OF EVERYTHING.

>> IT'S MOVING REALLY QUICKLY BE IT HOLIDAYS OR ROADS OR SCHOOLS OR FESTIVALS OR PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING -- PARKS, THAT HIS NAME IS ON.

CITIES, STATES ARE REALLY LOOKING TO REMOVE HIS NAME.

IN SOME CASES JUST MAKE IT SOMETHING ELSE, IN SOME CASES MAKE IT MORE DEDICATED TO THE FARMWORKERS' MOVEMENT AND NAME IT AFTER THE MOVEMENT RATHER THAN THE HUMAN.

IT'S MOVING QUICKLY IN THAT RESPECT.

TED: IT'S REMOVING THE HOLIDAY, THE GOVERNOR IS NOT GOING TO RECOGNIZE CESAR CHAVEZ DAY ON MARCH 31.

GOING TO CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE APPARENTLY.

>> IN PHOENIX, THEY'RE CHANGING IT TO FARMWORKERS' DAY.

REALLY WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO, YOU HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO STILL CELEBRATE THE MOVEMENT, CELEBRATE THE CIVIL RIGHTS VICTORIES THAT WERE WON AND SEPARATE IT FROM THE PERSON WHO HAS BEEN THE FACE OF IT FOR DECADES.

IT'S A VERY, VERY SAD SITUATION.

TED: CAN THIS BE SEPARATED IN TERMS OF POLITICS?

IS THERE AN IMPACT HERE IN TERMS OF POLITICS?

>> NOT SURE THERE IS BECAUSE THE FOLKS WHO A WEEK AGO WOULD HAVE DEFENDED CESAR CHAVEZ TO THE DEATH, WERE VERY QUICK TO CONDEMN HIM, TO LEAD, NOT GO ALONG WITH IT, BUT LEAD THE PUSH, TAKE HIS NAME OFF OF THINGS.

CESAR CHAVEZ HIGH SCHOOL IN LAVEEN IS GOING TO MEET TO CHANGE THE PROCESS ON THAT.

THERE WAS NO EFFORT BY PREVIOUS SUPPORTERS TO DIG IN THEIR HEELS, HOLD ON, THEY WERE VERY QUICK, AND THE FACT THAT THE UNITED FARMWORKERS, THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF, THE FACE OF FOR SO MUCH OF HIS LIFE, THEY CAME OUT FIRST BEFORE WE EVEN KNEW THE FULL ALLEGATIONS THAT WE'RE CANCELING HOLIDAYS, MARCHES, PEOPLE FOLLOWED THAT LEAD.

>> I THINK THE DOLORES HUERTA, THOSE INCIDENTS, THAT'S TOUGH TO GET BY.

>> YEAH, THAT WAS HEART WRENCHING TO READ, AND OBVIOUSLY YOU CORRECTLY CALLED HER AN ICON.

SHE WAS RIGHT THERE LEADING THAT MOVEMENT FOR SO MANY YEARS ALSO.

TED: ALL RIGHT, WE WILL END IT THERE.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.