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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING A JUDGE RULING AGAINST THE STATE'S MORATORIUM ON NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION IN THE VALLEY.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

AND JOINING US TONIGHT, BOB CHRISTIE FROM CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES.

JIM SMALL FROM THE "ARIZONA MIRROR."

DENNIS WELCH FROM CBS 5 AND 3TV.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

BOB, START WITH YOU.

THE GOVERNOR'S MORATORIUM BECAUSE OF WATER ISSUES AND ALL THIS KIND OF -- JUDGE SAYS I DON'T THINK SO.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> WELL, FOUR YEARS AGO, 3 1/2 YEARS AGO, THE GOVERNOR AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES ANNOUNCED THE NEW MODEL FOR THE PHOENIX ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA SHOWED THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN OVERDRAFT.

NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH WATER TO CONTINUE PUMPING AND ADD NEW WELLS FOR THE NEXT 100 YEARS, AND THAT WENT AGAINST THE 1980 GROUND WATER LAW THAT SAYS NEW DEVELOPMENT HAS TO PROVE THEY HAVE ENOUGH WATER.

THE DEPARTMENT UNILATERALLY, ACCORDING TO THE OPPONENTS, PUT IN THE NEW RULE, AND SAYS ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO BUILD A NEW HOUSE, ANY DEVELOPER WHO DEPENDS ON GROUND WATER IN THE PHOENIX AREA, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE THEM CERTIFICATES TO DO SO.

TED: NOT JUST UNDERNEATH WHERE YOU WANT TO BUILD BUT THE ENTIRE PHOENIX AREA, WHICH RESULTS IN A MORATORIUM?

>> A DE FACTO MORATORIUM, A PLACE THAT RELIES ON GROUND WATER.

ESSENTIALLY THE DEPARTMENT SAID IT'S FUNCTIONALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO HIT THE 100 YEAR ASSURANCE THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE.

THAT SPARKED OUTRAGE FROM THE HOME BUILDERS.

THEY WERE UNHAPPY ABOUT THIS.

THEY WENT TO COURT, FILED A LAWSUIT.

CHALLENGED IT.

SAID THE RULE WAS IMPROPER LEIMPLEMENTED AND GOES AGAINST STATE LAW, AND THE JUDGE SAID, YEAH, IN HIS ESTIMATION AFTER THE TRIAL SAID, ESSENTIALLY IS THE DEPARTMENT CIRCUMVENTING THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT, THE STATE LAW THAT GOVERNS HOW STATE AGENCIES HAVE TO CRAFT AND IMPLEMENT RULES WHEN THEY WANT TO CHANGE THEM.

>> IF WE CAN ZOOM OUT REAL QUICK ON THIS.

THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES AROUND RIGHT NOW.

THE BIGGEST INTERSECTION OF TWO OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES, HOUSING AND WATER.

HOUSING IS A MAJOR ISSUE WITH PRICES SOARING, RENTS SOARING, PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD HOUSES AND BIG QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR WATER SUPPLY.

HOW THIS ISSUE PLAYS OUT AND DEALT WITH SOLVED OR WHATEVER, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY IMPORTANT ONE.

TED: A BIG WIN FOR THE ARIZONA HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION OF CENTRAL ARIZONA.

BIG WIN FOR THE GOLDWATER INSTITUTE.

THEY WENT HARD ON THIS?

>> THEY FUNDED THE LAWSUIT.

THE LAWYERS ARGUED THE LAWSUIT.

THE HOME BUILDERS WERE ECSTATIC.

THIS WAS A HUGE DEAL, NOT NATIONAL HEADLINES ACROSS THE NATION.

PHOENIX IS OUT OF WATER.

NO NEW HOMES IN PHOENIX, AND RIGHT AWAY THE GOVERNOR AND THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES PUSHED BACK AND SAID THAT'S NOT TRUE AND HAVE COME UP WITH A COUPLE OF WORK-AROUNDS FOR SMALL DEVELOPMENTS BUT NOT FOR THE MAJORITY OF NEW DEVELOPMENTS, ESPECIALLY IN BUCKEYE, QUEEN CREEK, THESE AREAS THAT RELY ON GROUND WATER FOR THEIR 100 YEAR WATER SUPPLY.

TED: WITH THAT IN MIND, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO HOME BUILDING IN THE AREA AND TO WATER SUPPLY?

>> YEAH, FOR RIGHT NOW, I GUESS, THE RULE THAT THE 100 YEAR WATER SUPPLY, THE WAY THEY ASSESS THAT HAS TO GO BACK TO THE OLD WAY.

THOUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SAID THEY ARE GOING TO APPEAL THIS, AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET THE RULING BLOCKED AND LEAVE THE STATUS QUO AS IT WAS BEFORE THE RULING IN PLACE.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO DO.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE SERIOUS QUESTIONS, AND IT'S NOT RELATED TO THIS LAWSUIT, BUT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE THE CONTEXT IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH COLORADO RIVER WATER, WHICH PROVIDES THE WATER FOR A GOOD PORTION OF THE PHOENIX AREA.

IF ARIZONA STANDS TO TAKE SOME DEEP, DEEP, DEEP CUTS ON TOP OF WHAT WE'VE ALREADY TAKEN, AND IF THAT HAPPENS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE, I THINK, CHANGES TO THE WAY PEOPLE USE WATER IN EXISTING HOMES AND WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, WHETHER IT'S BUSINESSES LIKE ESPECIALLY HIGH WATER USAGE BUSINESSES LIKE DATA CENTERS, THINGS CONSTRUCTED LIKE GOLF COURSES OR NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS THAT REQUIRE WATER USAGE.

>> THE BUILDERS MAY BE EXCITED ABOUT THIS, HOW EXCITED ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE TO BE COMING TO ARIZONA IN GENERAL.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THESE KINDS OF WATER ISSUES.

IF THAT 100 YEAR WATER SUPPLY IS IN DOUBT, WE START LOSING WATER WITH COLORADO RIVER WATER.

WHAT'S WATER COSTING IF YOU WANT TO MOVE TO ARIZONA?

WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN BUILT ON GROWTH AND ATTRACTING PEOPLE HERE, WHAT'S THAT GOING TO DO OVERALL?

FOUR YEARS AGO, THIS WAS A MADGE ISSUE ON.

YOU DID SEE HEADLINES THAT SAID PHOENIX WAS OUT OF WATER.

WE WEREN'T OUT OF WATER BUT DIDN'T STOP THE HEADLINES FROM APPEARING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

>> THIS IS THE DEPARTMENT'S POSITION AND THE GOVERNOR'S POSITION, THE PHOENIX AREA SITS ON A BIG BOWL OF AQUIFER, AND YOU MAY BE STICKING A WELL IN HERE, BUT IT AFFECTS OVER HERE BECAUSE THE WATER GOES -- IF YOU SUCK OUT TOO MUCH WATER HERE, IT AFFECTS EVERYBODY ELSE.

SO IF THEY HAVE -- BUILDERS ARE ALLOWED TO UNREGULATE IT ESSENTIALLY, DRILL WELLS UNDER THE OLD SYSTEM THAT THE STATE HAD IN PLACE, IT CAN DRAIN WATER FROM EXISTING HOMES THAT RELY ON GROUND WATER, AND SO THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE GROUND WATER ACT IS TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T DRAIN THE AQUIFER AND END UP WITH NO WATER.

TED: DOES THIS NOT -- AS JIM ALLUDED TO -- MAKES THE 1988 GROUND WATER NULL AND VOID, DOESN'T IT?

>> IT DOES.

IF YOU CAN GO TO THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES, MY FIVE SQUARE MILES SHOWS I'LL BE FINE.

IF YOU'RE SUCKING IT FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE, THAT MAKES NO SENSE, AND THAT'S WHAT THE DEPARTMENT'S GOING TO ARGUE IN THE APPEAL.

TED: IS THERE A COMPROMISE HERE, A NEGOTIATION HERE?

IS THERE MIDDLE GROUND?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IF THERE IS, IT DOESN'T APPEAR THE SIDES ARE WORKING TOWARDS ONE AT THE MOMENT, AND I THINK FOR THE ADMINISTRATION'S PERSPECTIVE, THEY'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO COURT AND SEE IF THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, PREVAIL UPON AN APPELLATE COURT TO BLOCK THIS LOWER COURT, THE TRIAL COURT'S RULING, AND YOU KNOW, I THINK HOPEFULLY FOR THEM TO REVERSE IT.

>> RIGHT, IN THE MEANTIME, THE BUILDERS SAY THERE WERE 100,000 HOMES WHICH WERE NOT BUILT OR PERMITTED IF THIS HADN'T GONE IN PLACE, AND IT'S UNCLEAR NOW, THE DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN ACCEPTING THE APPLICATIONS FOR THE CERTIFICATES OF ASSURED WATER SUPPLY.

THEY ARE JUST STICKING IT IN A DRAWER.

IS THERE GOING TO BE A SUDDEN FLOOD OF HOME BUILDING?

WE DON'T KNOW, AND WILL THE DEPARTMENT IMMEDIATELY START ISSUING THESE?

OBVIOUSLY, THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO TRY TO STOP THAT IN APPEALS COURT.

TED: DENNIS, BUDGET UPDATE OR REPUBLICANS HAVE A BUDGET, THEY'RE GOING TO SEND IT TO THE GOVERNOR AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

>> PROBABLY WHAT I'VE BEEN HEARING, SHE'S NOT GOING TO LIKE WHATEVER IT IS THEY'RE COOKING UP RIGHT THERE.

I DID SPEAK WITH SENATOR JOHN KAVANAGH EARLIER TODAY, A REPUBLICAN, VERY INVOLVED IN THE BUDGET TALKS OR NONBUDGET TALKS DEPENDING WHERE YOU'RE SITTING DOWN AT THE CAPITOL.

HE SAID, YEAH, THEY'RE GETTING CLOSE TO SOMETHING, BROAD OUTLINES, LOOKING AT CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD, UP TO 5% FOR STATE AGENCIES IN CERTAIN PROGRAMS.

THE ONLY THING OFF THE TABLE, HE TOLD ME IS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY AND FOR EDUCATION FUNDING.

THE REASON THEY'RE DOING THIS IS KAVANAUGH THINKS IT WILL MAKE UP FOR $300 MILLION, $400 MILLION IN PROPOSITION 123 THAT THEY ALLOWED TO EXPIRE.

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT.

WE KNOW IT AFFECTS THE BILL WITH THE MORATORIUM FOR THE GOVERNOR AGAIN.

WHAT PLANS THEY COME OUT WITH AND WHETHER THE GOVERNOR LIKES IT OR NOT, BUT FROM THE BROAD PERSPECTIVE ON THIS, I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO BE THRILLED ABOUT THAT.

TED: FULL CONFORMITY, APPARENTLY?

>> EXACTLY RIGHT.

YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE RESPONSE FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND THE DEMOCRATS IS GOING TO BE.

LOOK, REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO MAKE DEEP CUTS TO GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS TO PROGRAMS THAT HELP FAMILIES, HELP ARIZONANS AND HELP WITH AFFORDABILITY IN ORDER TO PAY FOR TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY.

THAT'S A PREPACKAGED SPIN THAT WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO SEE, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAS BEEN HOPING TO GET, FRANKLY, THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET TO THAT POINT TO PUT THE BUDGET OUT SO THEY CAN POINT OUT THE THINGS THEY DON'T LIKE TO ARIZONANS AND SAY, HEY, LOOK, HERE'S WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO, BOTH FOR PURPOSES OF TRYING TO GET LEVERAGE IN THE BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS BUT IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR, THE GOVERNOR IS RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION, THIS IS GRIST FOR THE MILL.

>> IN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ONE BIG, BEAUTIFUL BILL THAT PASSED LAST YEAR, THERE'S A WHOLE SLEW OF TAX CUTS INCLUDING FOR AVERAGE MIDDLE-CLASS PEOPLE AND FOR BUSINESSES AND THE WEALTHIER AND ARIZONA USES THAT FEDERAL TAX CODE AS THE BASIS FOR THE ARIZONA TAX FORMS, AND SO IN THIS WEIRD DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, WHICH PRINTS TAX FORMS, AND THE GOVERNOR, THE GOVERNOR SAID WE ONLY WANT THESE PARTS OF THE TAX CUTS TO GO INTO FORCE IN ARIZONA, THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE PRINTED THE FORMS DIRECTLY FROM THE FEDERAL TAX CUTS, WHICH WENT COMPLETELY AGAINST WHAT THE GOVERNOR WAS SAYING AND JOHN KAVANAGH, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, AND JOHN LIVINGTON, THE HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS CHAIR SAID SHE'S PAINTED HERSELF INTO A CORNER NOW.

MILLIONS OF ARIZONANS FILED TAX RETURNS USING THESE FORMS THAT THE DEPARTMENT PUT OUT.

WE'RE NOT BACKING OFF.

TED: DENNIS, THE IDEA OF GOING THROUGH THAT AGAIN, AFTER WHAT WE WENT THROUGH BECAUSE OF A CHANGE IN THE TAX FORMS, THAT'S NOT A BIG ISSUE, NOT A GOOD ISSUE?

>> IT'S NOT A GOOD ISSUE.

I DID WANT TO GET BACK TO ONE OTHER THING.

WE WERE CHATTING -- THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT TOO -- WE WERE CHATTING WHETHER OR NOT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE THE VOTES FOR THE PLAN THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW.

APPEARS THEY DO.

IF THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T LIKE THIS, AND OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO GO BACK AND WORK WITH HER ON THAT, WHEN DO YOU WORK WITH THE REPUBLICAN VOTES TO GET SOMETHING THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO LIKE?

IS EVERY POINT THAT YOU GIVE TO CONCEDE TO THE GOVERNOR, YOU PROBABLY LOSE A COUPLE VOTES HERE AND THERE IN THE LEGISLATURE.

SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GETTING INTO THAT PROCESS OF WHO KNOWS HOW LONG THIS IS GOING TO TAKE.

TED: BOB, JOHN KAVANAGH SAID THIS IS NOT A COMPROMISED BUDGET, THIS IS A FINAL BUDGET, END OF STORY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

MR.

LIVINGSTON, HIS HOUSE COUNTERPART ESSENTIALLY SAID WELL, WE MIGHT NEGOTIATE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE GOVERNOR, BUT NO, THEY'RE SITTING ON THIS AND PLAN TO SEND IT TO THE GOVERNOR BY THE END OF NEXT WEEK, IF THEY CAN GET THE BILLS WRITTEN, COMPLICATED LEGAL THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE DONE, THEY ARE CONVINCED THEY CAN SEND IT TO THE GOVERNOR.

THEY NEED THE GOVERNOR'S SIGNATURE, AND I CAN'T SEE SHE WOULD JUST -- >> I WAS GOING TO SAY, IT'S REALLY CUTE WHEN LAWMAKERS ARE LIKE, THIS IS OUR FINAL PROPOSAL.

THIS IS WHEN YOU LEARN THE POWER OF A GOVERNOR.

YOU CAN CALL IT THE FINAL PROPOSAL ALL YOU WANT, YOU NEED HER SIGNATURE.

TED: IS THE MORATORIUM LIFTED?

YOU THINK IT'S LIFTED NEXT WEEK?

SHE GAVE HER BUDGET.

>> NO, SHE WANTS THEM TO RELEASE THE PLAN, WHICH THEY WILL DO, SOUNDS LIKE, AND ENGAGE IN CONSTRUCTIVE NEGOTIATIONS WHICH SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE NOT READY TO DO.

NO, PROBABLY NOT, THE MORATORIUM IS PROBABLY GOING TO STAY IN PLACE UNTIL EVERYONE GETS BACK TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE, RIGHT?

THIS IS THE NEXT STEP, THEY WERE AT THE TABLE, WALKED AWAY, BLAMED EACH OTHER, AND THE GOVERNOR SAID I'M NOT GOING TO SIGN ANYTHING UNTIL YOU GIVE ME A BUDGET AND LET YOU DEAL WITH IT.

SHE'S GOING TO VETO IT AND THEY'LL HAVE TO REGROUP AND DECIDE AT WHAT POINT THEY COME BACK TO THE BUDGETING, NEGOTIATING TABLE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DO THAT BY THE END OF JUNE, AND EVERYONE HITS THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

I THINK THE LAWMAKERS WOULD LIKE NOT TO BE SITTING AT STATE CAPITOL ON JUNE 30 IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT TRYING TO PASS A BUDGET.

TED: THAT'S A BIG DEAL.

>> A HUGE DEAL.

AND THE PRIMARY IS EARLIER THIS YEAR THAN NORMALLY IS.

NORMALLY IN MID-AUGUST, I BELIEVE IT'S LATE JULY AND THEY WANT TO MOVE IT UP CLOSER.

THERE'S A RUSH TO GET OUT.

TO DENNIS'S POINT THAT THE REPUBLICANS CAN'T STICK TOGETHER.

ALL THEY GOT TO DO IS LOOKING AT LAST YEAR, THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE WERE FIGHTING EACH OTHER FOR MONTHS.

THEY DIDN'T GET A BUDGET OUT UNTIL MID-JUNE BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE COULDN'T AGREEMENT THEY SET UP COMPETING BANS, FIRST ONE GOT VETOED, IT WAS A MESS.

>> I'M WONDERING TOO, THE LONGER THIS GOES ON.

YOU GUYS CAN CHIME IN ON THIS, TOO.

ECONOMIC NEWS IS NOT GETTING BETTER, EVERY UPDATE, LESS AND LESS REVENUE.

THE LONGER THEY STAY IN SESSION, THE LESS ROSIER OR BLEAKER THE PROJECTIONS ARE GOING TO LOOK, IT'S GOING TO CHANGE A LOT OF THE PROJECTIONS.

>> WE GOT UPDATED SET OF NUMBERS FROM THE BUDGET GURUS, $200 MILLION LOWER REVENUE JUST THE MONTH BEFORE.

IT'S AN 18 $1/2 BILLION BUDGET.

17 1/2 ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

SO YOU KNOW, THAT'S RIGHT.

BETTER TO STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT AND GET A DEAL, THEN YOU CAN GO CAMPAIGN.

TED: THEN CAN YOU TAKE A TRIP TO WASHINGTON, D.C.

BECAUSE APPARENTLY THAT'S THE PRIMARY IMPORTANCE.

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S A TRIP TO D.C.

I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO MEET WITH TRUMP AND OTHER REPUBLICANS.

TED: THE FOCUS, THE TRIP IS TO FOCUS ON PROMOTING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION POLICY.

>> I WOULD ASSUME -- I SAW THIS.

WOW, THEY ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE SAVE AMERICA ACT OR WHATEVER IT IS.

REMEMBER DONALD TRUMP PROPOSED HIS OWN BILL MORATORIUM ON CAPITOL HILL SAYING HE WASN'T GOING TO SIGN ANY LEGISLATION UNLESS THEY GOT THIS DONE.

I WOULD BE FASCINATED TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE BECAUSE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS BROUGHT LAWMAKERS, STATE LEGISLATORS IN FROM SERIOUS OTHER STATES TO LISTEN TO WHAT HE WANTS THEM TO PUSH AS HE'S MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION, BUT I GOT TO ASSUME THAT A LOT OF WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE -- FROM ARIZONA ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS HOW MUCH THEY WANT THE SAVE AMERICA ACT.

WE KNOW THAT IS FOREFRONT ON HIS MIND.

IT HAS BEEN.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S BEEN SINCE THE WAR STARTED BUT VERY IMPORTANT AT BEGINNING OF THE YEAR.

TED: WE NEED A TRIP TO D.C.

TO LEARN ABOUT THIS?

>> NO, WHAT WE NEED A TRIP TO D.C.

FOR IS LOOKING AT NEW YORK AND COLORADO AND OTHER DEMOCRATIC STATES AND SEE THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS CLAWED BACK TRANSPORTATION FUNDING, STARTED INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE MEDICAID PROGRAM.

HE'S TAKEN A LOT OF MONEY FROM DEMOCRATIC STATES.

WE HAVE A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR BUT A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE.

AND MAYBE THEY CAN WORK SOME MAGIC, AND OBVIOUSLY THEY HOPE THEY CAN BECAUSE THEY CAN KIND OF INSULATE ARIZONA FROM THAT CLAWBACK THAT THE PRESIDENT SEEMS WANT TO DO TO DO TO DEMOCRATIC STATES.

I THINK THAT'S THE UPSIDE.

THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WATER.

THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY ISSUES AND OTHER STUFF.

WATER IS CRITICAL.

AND I THINK IF YOU HAVE 40 ARIZONA REPUBLICANS PUSHING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON WATER, THAT'S A BIG DEAL IN THIS YEAR.

>> AND I THINK TOO, DEMOCRATS WERE OFFERED A WAY TO GO OUT TO D.C.

TO MEET WITH DEMOCRAT LAWMAKERS, AND MOST OF THEM ARE SAYING, EH, IT'S NOT IMPORTANT.

TED: THERE ARE OTHER THINGS GOING ON.

I FIND THE WHOLE THING FASCINATING.

JIM, ALSO FASCINATING IS THE NEVER-ENDING CONFLICT BETWEEN THE MARICOPA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND COUNTY RECORDER JUSTIN HEAP, AND WE GOT A RULE WEARING A JUDGE SAYS TO THE BOARD, KNOCK IT OFF.

>> YES, AND THE JUDGE ESSENTIALLY SAID THAT THE BOARD MADE A MISTAKE AND VIOLATED THE LAW AND KIND OF ESSENTIALLY THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE RECORDER'S OFFICE FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, WHEN IT TOOK AWAY AT THE I.T.

DEPARTMENT PRINCIPALLY AND THE IDENTIFIED THE RECORDER'S OFFICE THAT THEY SUED TO GET BACK.

THE JUDGE SAID, YEAH, YOU ARE SINGLING OUT THE RECORDER'S OFFICE.

NO OTHER OFFICE THAT IS HEADED BY AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, YOU HAVE NOT CLAWED BACK THE I.T., YOU DON'T OPERATE THE I.T.

FOR IT.

THEY HAVE STAND ALONE THINGS.

THE REASON YOU DID THIS IS ESSENTIALLY YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE FACT THAT JUSTIN HEAP WAS GOING TO BECOME RECORDER AND YOU WERE GOING TO ESSENTIALLY HAMPER HIS ADMINISTRATION A LITTLE BIT.

TED: AND THE BOARD PUSHING FOR A PAUSE TO GET THE WHEELS SPINNING IN OTHER DIRECTION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

KATE BROPHY McGEE SAID ABSOLUTELY WE'RE GOING TO APPEAL.

WE THINK THE JUDGE IS WRONG.

THE ROLES OF THE RECORDER'S OFFICE AND BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ARE DEFINED IN STATE LAW.

THE RECORDER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EARLY VOTING AND MAINTAINING VOTER ROLLS, AND THE BOARD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ELECTION DAY OPERATIONS AND STAFFING, VOTING LOCATIONS AND PICKING WHERE THEY GO AND THOSE TYPE OF THINGS.

WHAT THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT IS WHAT JUSTIN HEAP TO DO TO EARLY VOTING LOCATIONS, MINIMIZE THEM OR DO OTHER THINGS, OR YOU KNOW, THIS ALL GOES BACK TO 2020 ELECTION WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP ACCUSED ARIZONA AND OTHER STATES THAT WENT FOR JOE BIDEN OF NOT MANAGING THEIR ELECTIONS CORRECTLY AND ELECTING JOE BIDEN.

>> AND THE CONTEXT THERE IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE COUNTY RECORDER, JUSTIN HEAP, WHEN HE WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE, YOU KNOW, LOT OF ELECTION DENIAL-INSPIRED LEGISLATION WHILE HE WAS THERE.

HE MAY NOT HAVE DESCRIBED HIMSELF AS THAT WAY, BUT HE PALS AROUND WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE THAT.

MARICOPA COUNTY, AS WE KNOW, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT VOTING DISTRICTS IN THE COUNTRY AND GOING TO BE FRONT AND CENTER AGAIN THIS YEAR, AND I THINK COMPLICATING ALL THESE MATTERS AT THE COUNTY IS THE BOARD AND THE RECORDER JUST DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER.

TED: NO, NO.

EXCEPT FOR ONE SUPERVISOR.

>> AND FOUR OF THE FIVE COUNTY SUPERVISORS ARE REPUBLICANS LIKE THE COUNTY RECORDER, JUSTIN HEAP.

SO THIS IS A POLICY DISPUTE, NOT NECESSARILY A DEMOCRAT VERSUS REPUBLICAN DISPUTE.

TED: JIM, EARLY VOTING IN JURISDICTIONAL ELECTIONS I BELIEVE BEGINS THIS WEEK?

SOUNDS LIKE THINGS ARE STILL UP IN THE AIR.

>> YEAH, IT'S NOT A GOOD TIME TO BE HAVING THIS KIND OF THING AS WE'RE RUNNING INTO JURISDICTIONAL ELECTIONS, JULY 21 IS THE PRIMARY, AND EARLY BALLOTS GO OUT A MONTH BEFORE THAT, SIX WEEKS BEFORE THAT.

WE ARE RAPIDLY APPROACHING ELECTION SEASON EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT FEEL LIKE IT.

>> IT'S GOTTEN LATE EARLY.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, TWO MONTHS UNTIL THE PRIMARY, EARLY BALLOTS GO OUT FOR THE PRIMARIES.

WE'RE GETTING DOWN TO THE WIRE HERE ON THIS, AND THEY'RE STILL MESSING AROUND IN THE COURTS.

TED: SOUNDS LIKE CLARIFICATION NEEDS CLARIFICATION.

DENNIS, WHO IS RUBY DILLON WILLIAMS, AND WHY IS SHE GOING TO BE -- SHE'S THE INTERIM HOUSING DIRECTOR.

SHE'S GOING TO GET THE JOB?

SHE MADE IT THROUGH THE COMMITTEE.

>> THIS TIME IS ALWAYS FUN.

SHE MADE IT THROUGH JAKE HOFFMAN'S COMMITTEE BY A NARROW, NARROW VOTE.

I BELIEVE IT WAS 3-2.

T.J.

SHOPE WAS THE ONE VOTE THAT WENT FOR IT.

LOT DIFFERENT OUTCOME THAN THE LAST TIME THE HOUSING DIRECTOR WENT BEFORE THE COMMITTEE.

JAKE HOFFMAN WAS UPSET ABOUT FRAUD AND ABUSE AND PUT IT ON.

I BELIEVE HER NAME WAS JOAN SERVISS, I BELIEVE.

IT'S GOING TO THE FLOOR, AND THE MAJOR HURTLE IS THE COMMITTEE CHAIRED BY JAKE HOFFMAN, SO I WOULD THINK THAT THERE'S A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE SHE GETS THROUGH WITH THIS, AND YOU KNOW, MAYBE ALLOW THE GOVERNOR TO, YOU KNOW, OPERATE THE GOVERNOR AS SHE WAS ELECTED TO DO.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> WELL, WE'RE 3 1/2 YEARS INTO A 4-YEAR TERM FOR GOVERNOR KATIE HOBBS, AND THE SENATE STILL HAS NOT CONFIRMED -- SHE HAS NEVER HAD A FULLY CONFIRMED CABINET.

I HAVEN'T DONE THE HISTORY ON THIS, I WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY NEVER BEEN DONE IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA, I'LL GUESS.

THE FACT THAT HER NOMINEES KEEP GETTING SLAPPED DOWN, AND THEN THEY RUN THE CLOCK OUT.

SHE HAS TO APPOINT SOMEONE ELSE.

WHO'S RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT IF THE SENATE WON'T CONFIRM NOMINEES ON A FAIRLY FAST TRACK -- WE SEE IT WHEN NEW PRESIDENTS GET INTO OFFICE.

THE U.S.

SENATE CONFIRMS THEIR CABINETS LICKETY-SPLIT.

TED: JIM, THERE WAS CRITICISM FROM HOFFMAN REGARDING LOW-INCOME TAX CREDIT, REGARDING THE AUDIT.

THERE WAS CRITICISM THERE, AND ASIDE FROM SHOPE, ANOTHER PARTY LINE COMMITTEE VOTE.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT PORTENDS FOR THE FULL SENATE.

GETTING THROUGH THE COMMITTEE IS STEP ONE.

SHE HAS TO GO BEFORE THE ENTIRE SENATE AND GET APPROVED BY THAT BODY, AND GIVEN THE COMPLAINTS AND THE FACT THAT TWO OF THE COMMITTEE'S THREE REPUBLICANS INCLUDING THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE VOTED NOT TO CONFIRM HER, AND ESSENTIALLY VOTED TO REJECT HER.

I WILL BE CURIOUS TO SEE WHETHER THE SENATE EVEN DOES TAKE HER UP.

THERE'S NO GUARANTEE BECAUSE SHE GOT THROUGH COMMITTEE.

DOESN'T MEAN THE FULL SENATE WILL AND SENATE PRESIDENT WARREN PETERSEN WILL PUT HER UP FOR CONFIRMATION, AND IF HE DOESN'T, WE GET THE RUNNING THE CLOCK OUT AND THE ONE-YEAR TIME PERIOD YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SERVE AND GO AWAY.

>> I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR, SHOULD BE FAIRLY EASY FOR HER TO PICK UP THREE REPUBLICANS AND GET TO THE 16 SHE NEEDS, BECAUSE SHE'LL HAVE ALL THE SUPPORT OF THE DEMOCRATS.

QUESTION IS, AS JIM SAID, RELY ON SENATE PRESIDENT WARREN PETERSEN.

DOES HE PUT IT UP FOR A VOTE?

THAT'S WHAT I'M WATCHING.

TED: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S RACE, FOR GOODNESS SAKES, COULD THAT COME UP AS ELECTION ISSUE?

YOU KEPT BLOCKING THE GOVERNMENT FROM DOING ITS JOB?

>> IT'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL AMMUNITION THAT A DEMOCRAT COULD USE AGAINST WARREN PETERSEN.

HE'S GOT A LONG, LONG RECORD IN THE STATE'S LEGISLATURE, BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS, AND A GOOD CAMPAIGN CAN PICK ANY NUMBER OF TOPICS.

>> WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKER OR SENATE PRESIDENT, EVERY BAD THING GETS BLAMED ON YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE THE LEADER.

TED: IF YOU CONSIDER THAT A BAD THING.

IF SOMEONE THINKS YOU'RE DOING YOUR BETTING PROCESS.

DENNIS, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT VOUCHER REFORM FUND-RAISING.

AND SOUNDS LIKE ONE GROUP IN PARTICULAR, WHICH WANTS TO SEE AN INCOME TAX ON THOSE RECEIVING THE VOUCHERS OF FAMILIES RECEIVING VOUCHERS AND OTHER GUARDRAILS, THEY'RE RAISING A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY.

>> THEY'RE RAISING A LOT OF MONEY.

THE QUESTION IS DO THE TWO GROUPS DIFFER ON HOW THIS VOUCHER PROGRAM SHOULD BE REFORMED?

AND IT SEEMS LIKE TO ME, I HAVEN'T SEEN POLLING BUT GIVEN THE REPORTS ABOUT THE FRAUD AND ABUSE THAT HAVE BEEN FOUND IN THE PROGRAM, I'M THINKING THERE'S PROBABLY POPULAR SUPPORT TO PUT GUARDRAILS ON THIS PLAN, IT'S COSTING THE STATE MORE AND MORE MONEY EVERY YEAR.

TED: DENNIS MENTIONED TWO PROPOSALS OUT THERE.

THE OTHER ONE SEEMS LIKE IT'S MUCH, MUCH MORE MODEST.

>> YEAH, I THINK MORE DESIGNED TO KIND OF MAKE REFORMS BUT SMALL SCALE REFORMS TO THE VOUCHER PROGRAM AND INSULATE IT.

THE IDEA IS EITHER IF IT WERE TO PASS AND WIN, THAT IT WOULD INSULATE THE ESA PROGRAM MOSTLY AS IT IS NOW, NOT ENTIRELY, BUT ALSO I THINK MAYBE I THINK THE CYNICAL VIEW OF IT IS THAT PROPOSAL EXISTS TO MUDDY THE WATERS AGAIN THE OTHER ONE, IF THEY CAN BOTH GET ON THE BALLOT, YOU HAVE TWO COMPETING PROPOSALS AND YOU JUST TELL VOTERS VOTE THEM BOTH DOWN.

>> THE OTHER ONE DOESN'T USE THE WORD VOUCHERS.

>> SAVE OUR SCHOOLS ARIZONA, OPPOSED VOUCHERS FOR A DECADE NOW, AND WAS REALLY INSTRUMENTAL IN TRYING TO GET THIS ON THE BALLOT RIGHT AFTER, OR TRYING TO BLOCK IT RIGHT AFTER THE UNIVERSAL VOUCHER PROGRAM WAS APPROVED, FINALLY GOT THEIR STUFF TOGETHER AND HAVE A VOUCHER REIN IN PROPOSAL.

COUNTERED $150,000 AND SEND YOUR KID TO PRIVATE PAROCHIAL SCHOOL.

THAT'S A BIG DEAL.

I THINK THAT HAS A CHANCE.

TED: ALL RIGHT, WE'LL TEND RIGHT THERE.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.