♪♪ >> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING A SCATHING AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT ON THE VOUCHER SYSTEM.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

>> ARIZONA HORIZON IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF ARIZONA PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

>> Ted: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON, I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US TONIGHT HOWIE FISCHER FROM CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES AND KAREN SANCHEZ FROM KJZZ RADIO AND JESSICA BOEHM FROM AXIOS PHOENIX.

I WANT TO GET TO THE AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT, A BIG STORY, MAYBE THE BIGGEST AND NOW FINDING OUT THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE, THEY'RE CALLING EACH OTHER, THEY'RE FRIENDS.

WHAT?

>> THEY MISS EACH OTHER, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

LOOK, WE'VE GOT, THE FACT IS WE'VE GOT A DEADLINE COMING UP.

EVERY YEAR WE'VE HAD BUDGET AND AS MUCH AS THEY SCOWL AT EACH OTHER, IT ALWAYS HAPPENS.

SHE HELD HER BREATH, SHE WALKED AWAY AND THEN SAYS I'M NOT GOING TO SIGN ANYTHING.

THEY SAY THE HECK WITH YOU, WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEND YOU ANYTHING, BUT WE KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO COME BACK TO THE TABLE AND NOW SHE SAID THEY'RE TALKING IN EARNEST FOR A BIPARTISAN BUDGET.

WE KNOW THAT SHE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT SHE NEEDS TO GIVE UP.

THINGS ARE GOING TO DISAPPEAR.

HER NEW REVENUE SOURCES ARE NOT IN THERE.

NOT GOING TO BE NEW TAXES, NOT GOING TO BE NEW FEES.

THEY'RE RECOGNIZING YOU CAN'T DO 5% ACROSS THE BOARD CUTS AND ASSUME THAT WILL BE JUST FINE WITH EVERYONE.

IT'S A LITTLE TOO LATE TO DEAL WITH CONFORMITY, AT LEAST THIS YEAR SINCE PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR LAST YEAR, BUT THEY PROBABLY CAN WORK SOME STUFF DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Ted: IS IT TOO LATE TO DEAL WITH CONFORMITY?

BECAUSE IT SEEMS IT MIGHT BE AN ISSUE.

WE'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND HAVE OUR TAXES DONE AGAIN, WHO CARES, RIGHT?

>> I THINK THAT SMALL BUSINESSES CARE.

>> Ted: YES.

>> I THINK IT'S PROBABLY TOO LATE IN THE SENSE IT WOULD BE A HASSLE AND NOT SOMETHING THAT HOBBS REALLY WANTS ON HER RECORD.

THINGS YOU MIGHT AS WELL GIVE THEM CONFORMITY, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE PUSH AND PULL, IF I GIVE YOU CONFORMITY, CAN YOU GIVE LEVERAGE.

>> Ted: WHAT IS SOMETHING ELSE?

>> PROP 1, 2, 3, WE'VE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING AND I'VE ONLY HEARD WHISPERS AND RUMORS, I DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE.

>> Ted: AND MORATORIUM LASTED A LITTLE OVER A MONTH AND WAS IT EFFECTIVE AT GETTING FOLKS BACK THERE OR AS HOWIE MENTIONED, THEY'RE JUST GOING TO COME BACK ANYWAY.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THE MORATORIUM PLAYED A ROLE.

WE KNOW THE BILL SHE WAS GOING TO VETO ANYWAY, THERE WASN'T REALLY ANYTHING LEFT ON THE TABLE OH, MY GOSH, WE NEED HER TO SIGN THIS BILL.

SO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT IT ALL WOULD HAVE PROBABLY COME BACK TOGETHER IN GOOD TIME ANYWAY, BUT IT GIVES -- IT GAVE GOVERNOR HOBBS A FEW GOOD HEADLINES AND MAYBE THAT'S WHAT SHE NEEDED OUT OF IT.

>> Ted: WELL, LOOK, BOTH SIDES ARE CLAIMING VICTORY.

LAWMAKERS ARE SAYING, SEE, SHE GAVE IN.

>> OR JESSICA SAYS MAYBE SOME OF OUR BILLS.

SENATE'S COMING BACK ON MONDAY.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE ARE THEY GOING TO SEND SOME THINGS UP.

WHAT THE SENATE HAS TO DECIDE AND THE HOUSE WHEN THEY EVENTUALLY COME BACK AND VISIT US, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO PUT ON THE BALLOT.

THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE ANYTHING GOING THROUGH THE GOVERNOR, BUT HOW MANY ISSUES DO THEY WANT TO SEND TO THE VOTERS.

THE MORE THAT'S ON THE BALLOT THE HARDER TO GET THINGS PASSED AND FACING INITIATIVES LIKE VOUCHERS AND THINGS LIKE VOTING RIGHTS.

>> Ted: AS FAR AS WHAT CAMRYN MENTIONED PROP 1, 2, 3, IS THAT STILL IN PLAY?

>> I THINK THE TRICKY PART, YOU HAVE TO ROLL OVER JAKE HOFFMAN'S CORPSE BECAUSE HE BASICALLY SAID OVER HIS DEAD BODY THAT WE DO 1, 2, 3 AND THAT THE GOVERNOR GETS CREDIT FOR IT.

I HAVE THE FEELING THE BUDGET IS GOING TO BE OVER JAKE HOFFMAN'S DEAD, COLD BODY THE MINUTE THEY PUT MORE SPENDING IN.

HE DIDN'T LIKE THE SPENDING AND THEY'LL HAVE TO MAKE UP WITH DEMOCRATS.

>> Ted: AND I THINK THE BIG STORY IS THE AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT, 34% OF TRANSACTIONS HAD PROBLEMS.

HOW MUCH OF IT, WAS IT AN EARTHQUAKE, A TREMOR?

WHAT WAS IT?

>> I THINK IT'S A BIT OF A QUAKE BECAUSE OF THE RESPONSE FROM SENATOR -- SORRY, NOT SENATOR, HOUSE SPEAKER STEVE MONTENEGRO WHO SAID WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT.

AUDITOR GENERAL IS SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY RESPECTED AND LIKED AT THE LEGISLATURE, WHICH IS AMAZING, BY BOTH SIDES.

SO, THE STATE AUDITOR GENERAL'S OFFICE HAS THE JOB OF GOING OUT AND DOING WHAT THEY'RE ASKED TO BY LAWMAKERS.

MAKE REPORTS ON AGENCIES, SCHOOL DISTRICTS, THEY COME BACK AND PRESENT THEIR FINDINGS AND THEY'RE REALLY KIND OF AN APOLITICAL GROUP.

SO, THEY'RE TRUSTED AND WHEN THEY SAY THERE'S ISSUES, I THINK THAT LAWMAKERS ARE MORE INCLINED TO BELIEVE IT COMING FROM THEM.

>> Ted: ISSUES TO THE TUNE OF MISSED PAYMENTS, UNALLOWABLE EXPENSES, OVERPAYMENTS.

I MEAN, GOODNESS GRACIOUS, THIS IS -- THAT'S A LOT OF STUFF IN HERE.

>> YEAH, AND I THINK WHAT WAS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS REPORT OR MAYBE CONSEQUENTIAL ABOUT THIS REPORT WE'VE HEARD THESE STORIES AND THERE HAVE BEEN SMALLER OR MORE PARTISAN VIEW OF ESA SPENDING, BUT THIS IS, AS CAMRYN SAID, FROM A RESPECTED PLACE AND PROVIDED PRETTY SIGNIFICANT AND CLEAR LIKE NUMBERS AND GUIDANCE OF HOW MUCH, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL MISSPENDING IS GOING ON AND I THINK YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HEAR, OH, IT'S A REALLY SMALL NUMBER OF THE TOTAL PEOPLE WHO USE THIS.

WELL, THAT SMALL NUMBER IS GOING TO BE WHAT PEOPLE REMEMBER.

>> PART OF THE OTHER ISSUE IS, NUMBER ONE, THEY DIDN'T SAY 34% OF THE FUNDS WERE MISSPENT.

A LOT OF IT WAS WE DON'T HAVE THE DOCUMENTATION.

YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT WAS MISSPENT, IT WAS THAT SOMEBODY DIDN'T FOLLOW UP.

>> Ted: BUT THEY DID NOTE THERE WAS MISSPENDING, THERE WERE OVERPAYMENTS, THERE WERE UNALLOWABLE EXPENSES.

THAT'S IN THE REPORT.

>> NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT WHAT SPEAKER MONTENEGRO WAS SAYING, THEY RECOGNIZE THERE ARE TWO MEASURES GOING ON THE BALLOT DEALING WITH VOUCHERS.

ONE BY THE SAVE OUR SCHOOLS AND SUCH WHICH PUTS A CAP ON INCOME, BUT BOTH OF THEM ACTUALLY HAVE A WHOLE LIST OF THINGS YOU CAN'T BUY, BUT COMES BACK TO A LOT OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.

WANTS SOME BETTER OVERSIGHT AND I THINK WHAT THE SPEAKER IS BEGINNING TO RECOGNIZE IS SOMETHING THAT THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD HAVE RECOGNIZED YEARS AGO, TO THE EXTENT THAT PEOPLE DON'T TRUST THE MONEY BEING SPENT, DON'T TRUST THE OVERSIGHT.

VOUCHERS ARE IN TROUBLE.

>> Ted: AND AGAIN, $654 MILLION OF TRANSACTIONS AUTOMATICALLY PROCESSED ALSO NOT REVIEWED LIKE HALF A MILLION HIGH RISK TRANSACTIONS.

YOU'RE TALKING MAYBE 100.

AND AGAIN, MAYBE NOT ALL MAY BE WRONG, BUT THEY'RE NOT EVEN REVIEWED.

>> THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM HORNE, THEY HAVE A BACKLOG LIKE AN AVALANCHE, THEY DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DEAL WITH.

AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT HIS OFFICE SAID.

AS TO WHY THIS IS THE CASE, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME, DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF, DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FUNDING AND IT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE.

>> Ted: AND THE INITIATIVE DRIVES, THE IMPACT OF A REPORT LIKE THIS AND HEADLINES LIKE THESE ON THOSE DRIVES?

>> IT'S SIGNIFICANT.

IF BOTH OF THEM MAKE THE BALLOT WHICH IT APPEARS THEY MAY, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MAYBE BE CONFUSED, BUT THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT THIS REPORT AND REALIZING, OR AND BRINGING THAT INFORMATION TO THE BALLOT AND I THINK THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS LIKE COMING FROM A PLACE THAT'S NOT PARTISAN, THAT IS LIKE A RESPECTED AGENCY, AND THAT IS GOING TO PROVIDE EVEN MORE, YOU KNOW, SWAY, BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT THESE ARE NOT EXTREMELY POPULAR AMONG PEOPLE WHO DON'T USE THEM.

SO, WOULD THE OUTCOME HAVE BEEN THE SAME ANYWAY?

THIS IS CERTAINLY A MISSION.

>> AND THE FALLOUT, WE'LL TALK ABOUT MORE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE STUDIO, YOU KNOW, EARLIER THIS WEEK, IS HOW DOES THIS AFFECT TOM HORNE?

HE HAS BEEN A BIG DEFENDER AND AS CAMRYN SAYS I DON'T HAVE THE -- I DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO THROUGH EXPENSES WHICH IS WHY THEY DECIDED ANYTHING UNDER 2,000 WE'LL LET IT GO THROUGH AND CATCH UP WITH IT LATER.

PART OF THE OTHER INTERESTING PART IS KIMBERLY, THE STATE TREASURER RUNNING AGAINST HIM ORIGINALLY SAID, WELL, HE DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER TO TURN DOWN ANYTHING AND SHE'S GONE EVEN DEEPER INTO THE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL SUPPORTIVE OF VOUCHERS CAMP.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S GOING TO SUIT EITHER OF THEM WELL WHEN IT COMES TO THE GENERAL ELECTION.

>> Ted: CAMRYN, LET'S TALK ABOUT OUR CANDIDATES IN CONVERSATION, WE HAD SUPERINTENDENT HORNE AND KIMBERLY YEE, IT GOT VERY NASTY VERY FAST.

YEAH, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE EXPECTED IT AND ESA'S WAS ONE OF THOSE JUICY MORE MORSELS TO FIGHT OVER.

AND HE WAS LIKE YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS AND SHE SAID, YES, I CAN AND YOU'RE THE WORST.

AND WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO CALL IT A DEBATE.

>> Ted: IT'S CANDIDATES IN CONVERSATION.

>> YES, CANDIDATES IN CONVERSATION AND THEY ALSO GOT INTO IT ON A FEW OTHER THINGS LIKE DEI AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> Ted: WELL, I THINK BASICALLY, KIMBERLY YEE JUST SAID, HORNE'S MISMANAGEMENT, THE PLACE IS IN CHAOS, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING AND CAN'T HANDLE IT.

SHE CAME OUT WITH BOTH BARRELS BLAZING.

>> SHE WAS READY TO GO AND SHE KNEW WHAT SHE WANTED TO DO AND TRIED TO ACCOMPLISH THAT.

IF I FIND FUNNY ABOUT THE CONVERSATIONS, ESPECIALLY FOR A POSITION LIKE THIS, A LOT OF THE, YOU KNOW, MAIN POINTS OF WHAT PEOPLE CARE ABOUT AS RELATES TO EDUCATION, THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO-- TO DO WITH AND CAN'T CONTROL.

DURING A CAMPAIGN, PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING TO THROW WHATEVER THEY CAN AND SEE WHAT STICKS.

>> Ted: AND AMONG THE THINGS BEING THROWN WERE TOM HORNE'S PAST LEGAL PROBLEMS WHICH HE RESPONDED THAT KIMBERLY YEE DOESN'T HAVE THE INTELLECT TO DEAL WITH EDUCATION.

IT WAS A SCHOOLYARD BRAWL HERE.

>> YES, IT WAS, IT WAS YES BUT THINGS AND WELL, MAYBE I HAVE THIS MUCH SPENDING PROBLEM, BUT THE AUDITOR GENERAL FOUND THAT SHE HAD $68 MILLION THAT SHE DOESN'T FIND.

OF COURSE, SHE SAID IT'S A MUCH BIGGER PILE BECAUSE SHE'S DEALING WITH THE STATE'S ASSETS.

BUT YOUR POINT IS CORRECT.

YOU KNOW, YES, THERE IS SOME LEADERSHIP OF THE STATE IN TERMS OF READING SCORES AND MATH SCORES, A LOT OF THAT THOUGH IS THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION OF WHICH THEY SAY THE SUPERINTENDENT IS ONLY ONE PERSON AND THEN ISSUES AND YOU COULDN'T AGREE ON, WELL, WE ALL AGREE WE SHOULD TEACH PHONICS AND KIMBERLY SAYS I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE IT'S DONE AND TOM SAYS, WAIT, DID YOU NOT NOTICE WE'VE BEEN DOING IT IT FOR A DECADE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH WAS EVERYBODY EDUCATED?

OR AS YOU SAY WAS THIS A FOOD FIGHT.

>> Ted: WAS AN ACRIMONIOUS WHERE IT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN A PRIMARY ELECTION.

THE REPUBLICANS GET TO VOTE ON THIS.

DID THEY SEE SOMETHING THERE OR SEE SOMETHING THEY REALLY DIDN'T LIKE?

>> I MEAN, YOU COULD SAY THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO TEAR EACH OTHER DOWN AND MAYBE THE WINNER OF THE DEBATE IS WHOEVER GOT THE MOST, YOU KNOW, PUNCHES IN.

BUT SOME OF THAT STUFF, I THINK, REALLY JUST DEVOLVED.

LIKE SHE SAID YOU WERE SPEEDING IN A SCHOOL ZONE 20 YEARS AGO.

HE WAS LIKE 20 YEARS AGO.

SHE'S LIKE, OKAY, SO IT'S OKAY TO SPEED?

THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO.

>> Ted: FALLOUT IN THE PRIMARY, I GUESS WE'LL FIND OUT.

COULD IT SEEP OVER INTO THE GENERAL?

>> WELL, I THINK TO GO BACK TO THEIR PREVIOUS CONVERSATION ON ESA'S.

ESA OVERSIGHT IS ONE RESPONSIBILITY AND I THINK, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE GENERAL -- OR HOW THE PRIMARY IS GOING TO SHAKE OUT, BUT ESA'S, IT'S VERY POSSIBLE IF THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE, YOU KNOW, CAMPAIGNS IN THIS WAY, THEY COULD MAKE THIS A REFERENDUM ON ESA'S GENERALLY AND POINT TOM HORNE AS THE GUY.

>> Ted: AND HOWIE, WE HAD ANOTHER CANDIDATE IN CONVERSATION FOR SECRETARY OF STATE.

>> THERE WAS ANOTHER BRAWL.

>> Ted: AND GINA AND ALEX GOLDEN, DIDN'T GET AS NASTY AS FAST, BUT IT WASN'T A PICNIC.

>> OH, IT WASN'T.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH ISSUES OF WHAT DOES TITLE 16 ELECTION CODE REQUIRE THE SECRETARY OF STATE TO DO, SHOULD WE BE GIVING OVER OUR ELECTION RECORDS TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE?

YOU KNOW, GINA SAID I WOULDN'T, BUT I'D TAKE A COURT ORDER TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW.

AND NEVER REALLY ANSWERED THE QUESTION, ALL OVER THE BOARD IN TERMS OF WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE HERE ILLEGALLY VOTING, WHICH NEVER MIND THAT IN 2004 WE ACTUALLY PASSED SOMETHING THAT REQUIRED PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP TO VOTE AT LEAST IN STATE ELECTIONS.

AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PEOPLE LEARNED FROM THAT.

CAME ACROSS AS STRIDENT.

GINA CAME ACROSS AS REASON, BUT MAYBE JUST A LITTLE TOO, YOU KNOW, I'M SO MUCH BETTER AND SOME OF THESE DEBATES HAVE NOT TO DO WITH WHAT PEOPLE SAY, BUT HOW THEY COME ACROSS.

>> Ted: THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE THEM SITTING ACROSS FROM EACH OTHER AT A TABLE.

AND WE HAD CULLITON SAYING THAT GINA CARRIED WATER FOR A FORMER DEMOCRAT AND GINA SAID QUITE SAYING THAT I SUPPORTED YOU, BECAUSE I SUPPORTED ALL REPUBLICANS, NOT JUST -- I MEAN, IN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY, SABOTA IS THERE BECAUSE OF TURNING POINT AND OTHERS NOT SUPPORTING HER IN A PREVIOUS CONGRESSIONAL RACE.

I MEAN, THIS IS A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.

I MEAN, DOES CULLITON, DID HE CHARM THE ELECTORATE?

>> AND SHE WAS CANDID ABOUT THAT.

I WAS WONDERING WHEN YOU ASKED, OH, I THOUGHT I COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

SHE WAS LIKE, NO, IT'S CROWDED AND HE GOT THE ENDORSEMENT AND I DIDN'T, ALL OUT IN THE OPEN.

AND PARTICULARLY IN PRIMARIES, THE FURTHER LEFT AND FURTHER RIGHT SELECTING THE CANDIDATES SO I THINK THAT COLLITON HAS A CHANCE AND I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEHOOVED IF HE WASN'T SUPER CRAZY AND OVER THE TOP.

BUT I THINK HE MAY HAVE GOTTEN DIGS IN MAKING HER LOOK SYMPATHETIC WHEN SHE'S SORT OF DEFENDING LAWS THAT FONTEZ OR HOBBS WHEN SHE WAS SECRETARY OF STATE AND HE COULD EXTRAPOLATE THAT SO YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT BASICALLY, YOU'RE DEFENDING DEMOCRATS.

SHE WAS LIKE, NO, I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN THE LAW IS.

>> IS HER BACKGROUND AND HER EXPERIENCE, SHE HAS WORKED WITH DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN SECRETARIES OF STATE.

AND SHE PROBABLY UNDERSTANDS ELECTION LAW BETTER THAN ALMOST ANYONE THAT I KNOW, BUT SHE'S NOT A CRAZY.

DURING THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE WERE SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHY CAN'T WE GET THE RESULTS OUT AND STUFFING THE BALLOTS, SHE WENT ON TWITTER AND SAID, HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED.

YOU BRING IN YOUR BALLOTS AT THE LAST MINUTE, HERE IS WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN AND HOW MANY DAYS IT TAKES.

NO, THEY DID GET IN SOME SHOTS AT EACH OTHER, I THINK THAT ONE OF THEM WAS HER SAYING, LOOK, TALK TO REPUBLICANS, YOU NOMINATE CULLITON, HE LOSES.

HER CLOSING STATEMENT WAS, WHO DO YOU THINK HAS AN ABOUT THOR CHANCE TO BEAT FONTEZ.

>> I THINK WITH THE CANDOR SHE HAD AT A COUPLE OF MOMENTS DURING THAT CONVERSATION, THAT IS HER ARGUMENT, AND THAT'S WHAT SHE'S TRYING TO CONVINCE REPUBLICANS.

DO WE WANT TO DO THE SAME THING WE'VE BEEN DOING, WE NOMINATE THE PERSON FURTHEST RIGHT AND THEY CANNOT BEAT THE DEMOCRAT.

I MEAN, THAT WAS-- THAT IS HER ARGUMENT.

THAT'S WHAT SHE'S TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE.

>> AND HE DID HIMSELF NO FAVORS WHEN YOU ASKED HIM SOMETHING, WHICH WAS A LEGITIMATE QUESTION, HE WAS SANCTIONED BY THE STATE BAR OF ARIZONA FOR FILING A SERIES OF FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS.

NOW, HE COULD HAVE HAD AN ANSWER THAT HE SORT OF HINTED ABOUT LATER, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THE BAR HAS BEEN WEAPONIZED, LIBERALS ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM.

INSTEAD HE SAID, I KNOW, I'M GOING TO ATTACK TED AND PBS.

I'M SORRY, THAT, NO MATTER WHAT YOU FEEL ABOUT PBS, YOU, THE TIES YOU'RE WEARING OR ANYTHING ELSE, THAT'S NOT -- IT'S A NICE TIE, I'M NOT CRITICIZING.

>> Ted: WHAT ARE YOU GETTING AT THERE?

>> YOU NEED SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT'S ANOTHER STORY.

THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO TELL PEOPLE I'M A SANE AND REASONED PERSON.

>> Ted: WITH THAT LET'S MOVE ON.

WHO IS JOHN CONLEY AND WHY WAS HE ANSWERING SO MANY QUESTIONS FOR SUCH A LONG TIME THIS WEEK?

>> IT'S A COMPLICATED QUESTION.

[LAUGHTER].

>> HE WANTS TO LEAD THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY AND MILITARY AFFAIRS AND THAT'S A HOBBS APPOINTMENT SO IT MEANS IT HAS TO GO THROUGH SENATE CONFIRMATION.

THIS IS A CONVERSATION WE'VE HAD MANY TIMES WITH OTHER PICKS TO LEAD STATE AGENCIES AND THIS GUY WALKED INTO A REALLY ROUGH, REALLY HOSTILE, REALLY LONG COMMITTEE HEARING AND GRILLED BY HOFFMAN AND ROGERS, STATE SENATORS, ON A VARIETY OF ISSUES AND I REALLY WASN'T EXPECTING IT BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE KIND OF A SLEEPIER HEARING, MORE OF AN EASY APPOINTMENT.

MORE LIKE YOU WANT TO LEAD THE DEPARTMENT, COOL, YOU'VE HAD EXPERIENCE, GREAT.

NO, INSTEAD THEY WENT AFTER HIM ON VACCINES, IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT AND HISTORY IN COMBAT AND BASICALLY SAID IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ON THE FRONT LINES YOU CAN'T DO THIS JOB AND HOW WOULD YOU HANDLE LEADING THE NATIONAL GUARD AND SUPPORTIVE ENOUGH OF ICE AND ARE WE AT WAR IN IRAN?

>> HE DIDN'T LOSE HIS COOL, BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK HE PROBABLY-- >> AND I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE.

THAT'S WHY THEY HAVEN'T CONFIRMED ME.

>> THAT'S NOT WHY.

[LAUGHTER] >> THE FREY BETWEEN MARK KELLY AND PETE HEGSETH, THE SEDITIOUS SIX, AND THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO OBEY ILLEGAL ORDERS.

AND WITH THE COMMITTEE, YES, I'VE TAUGHT, I AM A LAWYER, I HAVE TAUGHT MILITARY LAW.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO OBEY ILLEGAL ORDER.

>> Ted: BUT THAT, WHEN YOU SAY I'M A LAWYER IN THIS PARTICULAR CONTEXT, THAT IS WHAT WAS IT CALLED, LEGALISTIC QUIBBLING MENTALITY.

THAT'S WHAT HE WAS ACCUSED OF BECAUSE HE WAS ANSWERING IN A WHAT, PROFESSIONAL MANNER, WHAT?

>> I SUPPOSE SO.

THIS GOES TO SHOW THIS PERSON IS NOT A HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL PERSON IN THE WAY THAT, I GUESS, YOU COULD ARGUE SOME OF THE PAST NOMINEES HAVE BEEN, BUT LIKE JAKE HOFFMAN AND SOME OF HIS SIMILAR COLLEAGUES HAVE DECIDED THAT ANYONE WHO COMES FROM HOBBS IS GOING TO GET THAT TREATMENT AND THEY ARE GOING TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE YOU TALK ABOUT IRAN AND KELLY AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> Ted: AND ADVANCED OUT OF COMMITTEE BECAUSE ONE REPUBLICAN, TJ SHOPE, SAID THIS IS A GOOD GUY.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> AND HE WAS QUIET ABOUT IT AND HIS YES AND DIDN'T GET INTO IT WITH HOFFMAN OR ROGERS AND THE SECOND TIME IN A ROW THAT SCHOAPS HAS DONE THIS, WHERE HOFFMAN AND ANOTHER REPUBLICAN VOTED ONE WAY, AND THEN PASSED ALONG A DEMOCRAT WITH THE COMMITTEE HEARING.

I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THAT, IT WAS SHOPE THAT IT WAS GOING TO COME DOWN TO IN THE BEGINNING AND HE DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE THE ISSUES, BUT I THINK THIS GUY WAS AT THE MERCY OF WORLD EVENTS, LIKE TRUMP'S USE OF ICE, THE NATIONAL GUARD, IRAN, HOT TOPICS A YEAR AGO HE WOULD HAVE SKATED THROUGH.

>> Ted: I THOUGHT I DID SEE SOME QUOTES FROM HIM, HE'S A GOOD GUY.

>> AND WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO, ROGERS, A COMBAT FLIGHT PILOT, WHAT'S YOUR MILITARY EXPERIENCE.

TO A CERTAIN EXTENT I'M A JAG, JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL.

I'VE BEEN OVERSEAS, UNDERFIRE IN SITUATIONS AND HAD TO GO TO KOREA.

YOU'RE RIGHT, I'VE NEVER LED A PLATOON AND SHE DECIDED THAT THAT DISQUALIFIES HIM AND HE SAID SOMETHING THAT WAS INTERESTING THAT I DIDN'T KNOW.

HE SAID THAT IT WAS GEORGE WASHINGTON WHO APPOINTED, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST AGITENT GENERAL AND THE PURPOSE WAS FOR WASHINGTON OR WHOEVER IS COMMANDING THE ARMY ARE READY.

THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING HERE, I HAVE 8,000 SOLDIERS HERE, ARMY AND AIR FORCE, I'M PREPARING THEM, SUPPLYING THEM.

THEY'RE TRAINED, THEY'RE READY, THEY'RE SUPPLIED.

IT NOT MY JOB AND HE SAID YOU DON'T WANT THE 58-YEAR-OLD, NOW, LAWYER OUT THERE ON THE FRONT LINES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> Ted: ALL RIGHT.

AND JESSICA, WE GOT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ONCE AGAIN DECIDING THAT SHE'S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO DEFEND A STATE LAW.

THIS IS ABOUT ABORTION RESTRICTIONS.

>> IT IS.

AGAIN, ABOUT ABORTION RESTRICTIONS SO SHE'S DECIDED THAT SHE IS -- THAT A.C.L.U.

IS SUING OVER A STATE LAW THAT SAYS THAT ONLY -- THAT SEVERAL MEDICAL PROVIDERS THAT HAVE PREVIOUSLY HAD THE RIGHT TO PROVIDE ABORTIONS NO LONGER CAN.

LIKE, SPECIALTY NURSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO, INSTEAD OF DEFENDING THAT LAW, WHICH IS TYPICALLY WHAT AN ATTORNEY GENERAL DOES, SHE HAS SAID THAT IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE AND SHE WON'T BE DEFENDING IT, SHE AGREES WITH THE A.C.L.U.

AND SO, OUR REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP IS GOING TO FIND THEIR OWN ATTORNEY.

>> Ted: AND SHE SAYS THE REASON IS IT'S LEGALLY UNDEFENSIBLE BECAUSE OF PROP 39.

>> VOTERS PASSED AND VOTER APPROVED INITIATIVE IS CLEARLY WRITTEN AND STRONG WITH ABORTION PROTECTIONS AND SHE SAYS THERE'S NO POINT IN DEFENDING THIS LAW, IT WOULD BE A WASTE OF HER TIME AND THIS HAS BEEN THE STATUS QUO SINCE WE'VE HAD MAYS IN WITH THE LEGISLATURE AND PETERS AND MONTENEGRO, WHEN THEY WERE LEADERS, OR TOMO, FOUR YEARS AGO, WE'RE SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE LEGISLATURE, FULL STOP, NO QUESTION.

AND WHEN MAYS WANTS TO DO IT THEY STEP IN AND AMICUS BRIEFS OR COME IN AS INTERVENERS AND SAY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT SHE SAID.

>> YOUR POINT IS CORRECT.

PROP 139 PUT A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO ABORTION IN THE LEGISLATION AND CAN ONLY PROCEED TO THE EXTENT IT IS MINIMALLY NECESSARY AND DOES NOT INFRINGE ON CHOICE.

AS YOU POINTED OUT THE STATE BOARD OF NURSING UNTIL A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, SPECIALLY TRAINED NURSES CAN PERFORM MEDICATION ABORTIONS AND EVEN CERTAIN SIMPLE SURGICAL ABORTIONS AND WHEN THE BOARD OF NURSING DID, THE LEGISLATURE PASSED THE LAW AND SAID ONLY DOCTORS CAN DO IT.

139 PASSES AND WAIT, THERE'S NO LEGITIMATE REASON FOR THAT IS WHAT SHE'S SAYING AND TOOK A SLAP AS YOU SAID AT MONTENEGRO AND PETERSON.

WHY ARE YOU WASTING MONEY FIGHTING SOMETHING INDEFENSIBLE.

>> Ted: AND BEFORE WE GO.

GEORGE WILL, HE'S APPARENTLY STILL WRITING COLUMNS.

AND HAVEN'T CHECKED IT OUT, BUT RECENTLY HAD A COLUMN HE THINKS THE BEST ANTIDOTE SO WHAT'S IN THE WHITE HOUSE, DOUG DUCEY.

>> THE WAY IT'S FRAMED, AN ANNOUNCEMENT BY DOUG DUCEY WRITTEN BY GEORGE WILL, THE WAY I SUNDAY IT UP, I WILL MAKE THE WHITE HOUSE BORING AGAIN AND HE TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MY FACE, NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT, WILL NOT BE DRAPED ALL OVER.

AND BASICALLY BACK TO BASICS AND PUT THE PRESIDENCY WHERE IT BELONGS IN THE LEGISLATIVE AND THE JUDICIAL BRANCHES DO THEIR JOBS AND YOU MIGHT GO WEEKS AND NOT REMEMBER THAT I EXIST.

>> Ted: YES, A VERY OPPOSITE OF WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW, BUT YOU KNOW, TO GET PAST THE EFFECTS HERE.

IS DOUG DUCEY CONSIDERED PRESIDENTIAL TIMBER IN THIS DAY AND AGE?

>> NOW HOW YOU GET A ROLEX IT DEPRECIATES THE MINUTE IT LEAVES THE STORY.

THE THIS I THINK ABOUT DOUG-- I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO BE MEAN.

[LAUGHTER] >> HE'S NOT BEEN IN OFFICE, AND OUT OF PEOPLE'S MINDS AND EVEN ARIZONA THE ATMOSPHERE.

NO, ON PAPER WHAT HE SAYS ON PAPER MAKES SENSE, BUT AS A PRESIDENT, IT WOULD BE A VERY DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVE TO TRUMP AND MAYBE HAS NOR BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, HE WAS ABLE TO WIN REELECTION.

I THINK HE'S NEVER LOST AN ELECTION.

>> WELL.

>> BUT HE'S BEEN OUT OF THE GAME SO IT STRIKES ME AS FAN FICTION.

>> Ted: YOU CAN GET INTO THE GAME QUICKLY ON THAT LEVEL.

>> HE IS IN SOME WAY, SOME RELIGIOUS ASIDE, A CARBON COPY OF THE FORMER VICE-PRESIDENT, MODERATE, QUIET, AND THE FORMER VICE-PRESIDENT IS NOSING AROUND I'M OUT HERE WRITING BOOKS AND I'M APPEARING IN PLACES.

PENCE OR HER.

>> AND I THINK THAT DUCEY, LIKE PENCE, THEY'RE FRIENDS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE FORMER GOVERNORS IN SOME WAYS AND I DON'T SEE IT, I THINK IT'S NICE TO BE MENTIONED AS ALWAYS, BUT IN TERMS OF DOUG GOING OUT THERE AND IS HE WILLING TO FIGHT THAT KIND OF FIGHT AGAINST WHAT STILL REMAINS THE MAGA WING OF THE PARTY, I DON'T THINK HE'S GOT IT IN HIM.

>> Ted: ALL RIGHT, WE'LL WRAP IT UP RIGHT THERE.

PANEL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I'M TED SIMONS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

♪♪ I LIKE TO THINK THAT AT ARIZONA HORIZON WE ARE UNIQUE THE WAY THAT WE PRESENT INFORMATION, PUBLIC POLICY, NEWS, THESE SORTS