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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT COMPLETING THEIR NEARLY THREE-YEAR INVESTIGATION INTO THE PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON," I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US TONIGHT, MARK BRODIE OF KJZZ RADIO.

BOB CHRISTIE OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES AND JEREMY DUDA OF AXIOS PHOENIX.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

BOB ON ZOOM, YOU'RE ON ZOOM, WE MIGHT AS WELL START WITH YOU AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE RELEASING THIS LONG ANTICIPATED REPORT, AND IT WAS A BIT OF A DOOZY.

>> IT'S DEFINITELY A DOOZY.

IT BASICALLY FINDS THAT THE PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT VIOLATES THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF HOMELESS PEOPLE, OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS, OF LATINOS, MINORITIES, EXCESSIVE FORCE, IMPROPER ARRESTS.

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

TED: YEAH, JEREMY, DISCRIMINATES AGAINST BLACK AND HISPANIC, NATIVE AMERICANS, EXCESSIVE FORCE, SOMETIMES DEADLY FOLKS, THE TRAINING INCLUDES IDEAS OF DE-ESCALATION.

IT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

OBVIOUSLY, 12 6 PAGES AND THREE YEARS, PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE.

>> DAMNING AS IT WAS, SO MANY ALLEGATION HAVE BEEN AIRED PUBLICLY FOR SO LONG, THE STUFF REGARDING THE DEPARTMENT'S TREATMENT OF HOMELESS PEOPLE.

MY COLLEAGUE WROTE ABOUT IT A FEW YEARS AGO AT THE REPUBLIC.

THIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED, BUT TO SEE IT ALL ON PAPER HERE, AS YOU SAID, 126 PAGES, THREE YEARS, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOCUMENTS.

GOD KNOWS HOW MANY HOURS OF INTERVIEWS.

THIS PAINTS A BLEAK PORTRAIT OF THE PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT.

TED: MARK, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?

>> A LOT OF THIS AIRED IN PUBLIC BEFORE, IT WASN'T SO MUCH SURPRISING.

WHAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAID THAT WAS SURPRISING IS THE TREATMENT OF HOMELESS.

CASES THROWING OUT STUFF, ID, DOCUMENTS AND OTHER THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THEM, SO A LOT OF THIS, I THINK MAYBE THE SCOPE FOR SOME FOLKS WAS A LITTLE SURPRISING, AS YOU REFERENCE HOW COMPREHENSIVE IT WAS, HOW LONG IT WAS, A LOT OF THE INCIDENTS HAVE BEEN OUT THERE IN THE ETHOS FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

TED: BOB, RECOMMENDATIONS BUT NO CONSENT DECREE, BY WAY OF THE REPORT, NOT RIGHT NOW.

ARE WE EXPECTING A CONSENT DECREE, WHAT HAPPENS NOW WITH ALL THIS?

>> A CONSENT DECREE IS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY POLICE FORCE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

IF YOU REMEMBER TWO MONTHS AGO, THE CITY AND THE POLICE AND THE POLICE UNIONS WERE ON BASICALLY PUSHING BACK, TRYING TO DERAIL THIS D.O.J.

INVESTIGATION, TRYING TO TELL THE MESSAGE TO THE PUBLIC AND THE D.O.J.

THAT ANY -- ANY CONSENT DECREE WAS NOT NECESSARY.

IF YOU'RE A LAWYER LOOKING AT ALL THESE POTENTIAL VIOLATIONS, ACCORDING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, ACTUAL VIOLATIONS OF CIVIL RIGHTS THAT HAD GONE ON FOR YEARS, AND THE CITY VOCALLY SAYS WE DON'T THINK A CONSENT DECREE IS NECESSARY.

THAT MEANS THEY'RE PROBABLY JUST GOING TO SUE.

A CONSENT DECREE IS A LEGAL SETTLEMENT, AND IF THE CITY HAS TELEGRAPHED THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN A SETTLEMENT, A LAWSUIT HAPPENS.

I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE GOES DOWN TO THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE SOON AND FILES A FEDERAL CIVIL RIGHTS LAWSUIT AGAINST THE CITY OF PHOENIX AND LITIGATES IT.

TED: WITH THAT IN MIND, JEREMY, AGAIN, LOTS OF RECOMMENDATIONS AND OBSERVATIONS, LOTS OF REPORTING HERE.

THAT'S ABOUT IT.

WAS THIS A WAY RECOGNIZING THAT PHOENIX HAS TRIED TO AT LEAST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?

I MEAN, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A LOT MORE PUNITIVE AS OPPOSED TO JUST OBSERVATIONAL?

>> AND THE PUNITIVE PART, THAT COULD BE COMING DOWN THE ROAD.

KRISTIN CLARK, THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FROM THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION THAT PRESENTED THE FINDINGS YESTERDAY MENTIONED THE PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS DONE SOME REFORMS OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, THEY BROUGHT IN A POLICE OFFICIAL FROM BALTIMORE WHO OVERSAW THE REFORMS.

THEY FILED A CONSENT DECREE OUT THERE.

WHAT THEY SAID IS IT'S INADEQUATE SO FAR, WE CAN'T TRUST THEM, IT SPEAKS TO THE LIKELIHOOD THEY'RE GOING TO IMPOSE HARSHER MEASURES.

I THINK EVERYONE WAS READING WHAT THEY WANTED TO BECAUSE WE ASKED ABOUT THAT WHEN THEY BROUGHT OUT THE FINDINGS, AND SHE KIND OF HEMMED AND HAWED ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO MOVING FORWARD, AND THERE WAS TALK ABOUT FINDING A MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION.

I SPOKE TO THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE CITY MANAGER, THEY HIGHLIGHTED THAT MAYBE THERE'S A PATH FORWARD WITHOUT A CONSENT DECREE, WITHOUT A FEDERAL MONITOR, WORK TOGETHER AND FOLKS IN THE CITY CERTAINLY AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ARE HOPING THAT THEY CAN MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT THE HARSHER MEASURES WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER PLACES LIKE BALTIMORE AND LOUISVILLE AND THE MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

TED: IT SEEMS DISTANCED, THERE MIGHT BE SPACE TO GET SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT BEFORE SOMETHING SERIOUS COMES DOWN THE PIKE.

I'M JUST READING THIS WRONG, IT COULD BE.

IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A LITTLE SPACE.

>> ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE AT THIS MOMENT.

BOB IS ENTIRELY RIGHT, MANY IF NOT ALL OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, THE MAYOR, OTHER CITY OFFICIALS ARE NOT INTERESTED IN CONSENT DECREE, SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, GOT THE SENSE THIS IS COMING DOWN THE PIKE IN THE NOT-TOO-DISTANT FUTURE.

HOWEVER, ONCE IT CAME OUT, MUCH OF THE RESPONSE FROM ELECTED FOLKS THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR, A LITTLE MORE CAUTIOUS IS A GOOD WAY TO DESCRIBE IT.

WE WANT TO READ THIS, HAVE A MEETING IN A COUPLE WEEKS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS TO GET LEGAL ADVICE.

WE DON'T WANT TO COMMENT TOO MUCH.

MAYOR GALLEGO SAID I HAVEN'T READ IT YET, AND I'M NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING UNTIL I DO.

YOU HEARD THAT FROM A NUMBER OF CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.

I WONDER IF THERE IS A LITTLE SPACE THERE FOR IF NOT A CONSENT DECREE, MAYBE SOMETHING BETWEEN THAT AND OUTRIGHT LAWSUIT.

SEEMS LIKE THEY WERE LEAVING A LITTLE SPACE FOR THAT.

TED: AND AGAIN, JEREMY, THE POLICE HEAD CALLS IT A FARCE, NO REAL SURPRISE THERE, BUT WHAT IS NEXT WITH ALL THIS?

ARE THINGS GOING TO HAPPEN RELATIVELY SOON, BECAUSE GOODNESS GRACIOUS, THIS HAS BEEN HANGING OVER -- EVERYONE IS WAITING FOR THIS TO COME DOWN FOR QUITE AWHILE.

>> I IMAGINE WE MIGHT SEE SOME STEPS TAKEN SOON, THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO DRAG ON FOR SOME TIME.

THEY IMPLEMENTED MEASURES, CHANGE OF USE OF FORCE POLICY, DE-ESCALATION TRAINING POSSIBLE, WHAT THEY TRAIN THE OFFICERS TO DO IS DE-ESCALATE BY ESCALATING QUICKLY AND USING FORCE WHICH GETS THE SITUATION OVER WITH, WHICH LEADS TO TRAGIC AND UNPREDICTABLE RESULTS.

THEY HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER UNDER A COURT-ORDERED SITUATION OR MORE VOLUNTARY SITUATION.

>> SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND, IF YOU TALK TO FOLKS IN THE CRIMINOLOGY AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE WORLD, YOU CAN PUT ALL THE POLICIES IN PLACE YOU WANT, CHANGING CULTURE TAKES TIME.

IF YOU ENACT ALL THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM D.O.J.

TOMORROW, THERE ARE HUMAN BEINGS EXECUTING ALL THESE THINGS, AND IT TAKES A LITTLE TIME TO GET THE TRAINING DONE AND TO SORT OF CHANGE THE MIND-SET IF THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

TED: BOB, GO AHEAD.

>> YEAH, IT IS A POLITICAL SHOW.

I WAS IMPRESSED WITH -- NOT IMPRESSED.

IT STRUCK ME THAT THE REACTION FROM ELECTED POLITICAL LEADERS OUTSIDE OF THE CITY COUNCIL, TALKING THE LEGISLATORS AND -- IT BROKE CLEANLY ON PARTISAN LINES.

THE REPUBLICANS SAID THIS IS BIDEN'S LAWFARE, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THEY HATE COPS AND THE DEMOCRATS SAY THIS IS LONG OVERDUE.

SO THERE'S POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS BEHIND THESE.

I THINK THE D.O.J.

IS OBVIOUSLY AWARE, ANYTHING THEY DO IS GOING TO HAVE -- BE SEEN ON EACH SIDE AS POLITICALLY TAINTED, BUT THE DETAILS IN THIS REPORT WERE SO STARK AND LIST AFTER LIST AFTER LIST OF SHOOTINGS AND USING EXCESSIVE FORCE AGAINST PEACEFUL PROTESTERS AND REARRESTING THE SAME HOMELESS PERSON MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE TIMES TO WHERE THE POINT WAS, THE ONE GUY -- THE ONE HOMELESS PERSON INCLUDED IN THE D.O.J.

REPORT SAID, WAS QUOTED AS TELLING THE POLICE, WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO NOT GET ARRESTED?

YOU MOVE ME, GET ARRESTED, GET ARRESTED.

THERE IS SO MUCH.

THERE HAS TO BE REACTION, BUT THE FACT THERE WAS REACTION FROM POLITICIANS STRIKES ME.

TED: LAST QUESTION ON POLITICS AND FALLOUT.

ANYTHING AS FAR AS CITY POLITICS COME INTO THIS?

>> NOT SO FAR.

THE CITY COUNCIL HAS BEEN FAIRLY DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED FOR A WHILE NOW, BUT THINGS GET A LITTLE DICIER.

FOLKS ARE IN DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM WENT SAME PARTIES HERE.

LAW ENFORCEMENT SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE ACROSS PARTISAN LINES, YOU HAVE A DEMOCRATIC MEMBER WHO'S A FORMER PHOENIX OFFICIAL -- POLICE OFFICIAL HIMSELF, REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

SOME WAYS WE'VE SEEN PREDICTABLE PARTISAN LINES, THEY ARE SAYING WE DISAGREE WITH THE FINDINGS, DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPORTIVE OF D.O.J.

ON THIS, OBVIOUSLY LEFT OF CENTER THERE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

TED: JEREMY STICKING WITH YOU.

ATTORNEY GENERAL OPENS A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION AGAINST GOVERNOR HOBBS, WHAT IS THIS ABOUT?

>> A HUGE STORY IN THE "ARIZONA REPUBLIC" ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT OF CHILD SAFETY AND ONE OF THE COMPANIES THAT IT CONTRACTS FOR THE CONGREGATE GROUP HOMES, FACILITIES WHERE THEY PLACE CHILDREN, REMOVED FROM THE HOMES, NO OTHER FAMILY TO STAY WITH.

ONE PARTICULAR COMPANY GOT A LARGE RATE INCREASE, AFTER GETTING ONE DENIED, A FEW MONTHS LATER, WAS APPROVED, NOT ONLY DOES THE COMPANY HAVE CLOSE TIES TO GOVERNOR HOBBS.

THEY GAVE $100,000 TO SHADOWY INAUGURAL COMMITTEE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO RELEASE THE DONORS TO AND GAVE 200,000 TO THE PARTY ANOTHER 100 LATER ON.

THIS RAISES RED FLAGS WHY THEY GOT THE APPROVAL AFTER BEING DENIED.

RECENTLY A BUNCH OF PROVIDERS DID, BUT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF NORMAL CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, THIS WAS OUTSIDE OF THAT.

IT STANDS OUT AS POTENTIAL MISAPPROPRIATION, POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

BRIBERY.

REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS ALLEGE IT COULD BE HAPPENING.

THIS IS SERIOUS ISSUE AND THE COUNTY AND THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ARE LOOKING INTO THIS.

>> I WANT TO GET TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN A SECOND.

TALKING ABOUT RED FLAGS, THEY'RE FLAPPING IN THE WIND ON THIS ONE.

>> THEY ARE.

I HAVE A SAYING I SAID EARLY IN THE CAREER, IF IT REALLY STINKS, YOU SHOULD FIGURE THERE IS SOMETHING CAUSING THAT STINK, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR GOVERNOR HOBBS.

THIS JUST LOOKS BAD.

WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S ANY MALFEASANCE OR BRIBERY OR ANY OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING, IT LOOKS BAD, LOOKS BAD FOR THE GOVERNOR, LOOKS BAD FOR CHILD SAFETY AND LOOKS BAD FOR THE COMPANY THAT RUNS THIS SUNSET RESIDENTIAL HOMES.

TED: I THINK IT'S SUNSHINE.

>> SUNSHINE, YEAH.

IT LOOKS BAD.

FOR THE INVESTIGATORS, IT'S GOING TO BE CAN YOU HAVE ALL THAT BUT HAVE TO SHOW PROOF THERE'S A QUID PRO QUO HERE, THAT THERE'S EVIDENCE THAT THE GOVERNOR DID SOMETHING.

I'M SURE THERE'S GOING TO BE DEEP DIVES INTO PHONE RECORDS AND E-MAIL RECORDS.

UNLESS THERE'S HARD EVIDENCE, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE OTHER THAN THIS IS REALLY POLITICALLY DAMAGING.

TED: AND MARK, THIS DOES NOT LOOK GOOD.

>> NO, AND BOB'S RIGHT, EVEN IF THERE'S NO MALFEASANCE OR IMPROPRIETIES HAPPENING, OPTICALLY IT LOOKS BAD FOR THE GOVERNOR AS HE SAID FOR DCS.

YOU NEVER LIKE TO SEE THIS KIND OF STUFF HAPPENING.

TED: YEAH, AND JEREMY BACK TO YOU REGARDING AUDITOR GENERAL AND MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID WE CAN HANDLE THIS, WE'LL ISOLATE IT IN OUR OWN OFFICE, WE GOT THIS AND RACHEL MITCHELL SAID NOT SO FAST.

>> SHE SAID WE GOT THIS, TOO.

YOU HAD REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS STATE TREASURER KIMBERLY YEE REQUESTS, SOME REQUESTS THE AG GET INVOLVED, OTHERS LOOK TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

YOU HAVE SOME LAWMAKERS ASKING MAYES TO RECUSE HERSELF BECAUSE OF THE POLITICAL TIES, SHE SAID SHE WOULD NOT.

RACHEL MITCHELL SAID STAND DOWN, WE DON'T WANT PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS, THAT COULD CAUSE A PROBLEM.

SHE TOUTED STATUTORY AUTHORITY WHICH GIVES BROAD SUPERVISORY AUTHORITY OVER ATTORNEY'S OFFICES.

RACHEL MITCHELL SAID I'M GOING TO STAY LONGSIDE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE AG SAID YOU'RE GOING TO DO YOUR INVESTIGATION AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO INTERFERE WITH YOURS, WE'LL HAVE THE PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES WAS HOPING TO AVOID, WHICH COULD HAVE INTERESTING OUTCOMES DOWN THE ROAD.

TED: NOT ONLY THAT, BUT SIMPLE DUPLICATION.

GOODNESS GRACIOUS.

>> YOU WONDER IF PEOPLE ARE SITTING FOR MULTIPLE INTERVIEWS WITH MULTIPLE INVESTIGATIVE BODIES.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST DISAGREEMENT EVEN RECENTLY THEY DISAGREED OVER THE DEATH PENALTY.

THEY DISAGREED OVER ABORTION POLICY.

SO I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THIS IS SIMPLY A POLITICAL THING.

I BELIEVE THAT THEY BOTH THINK THEY SHOULD BE TAKING THIS ON, BUT IT IS INTERESTING THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS INTO ONE ISSUE.

TED: AS FAR AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL RECUSING HERSELF, MARK, THE IDEA IS YOU ARE REPRESENTING DCS AND YOU HAVE THIS GOINGOR.

SHE SAYS THE FIREWALL IS IN PLACE.

>> SHE'S ALLOWING THEM TO HIRE THEIR OWN ATTORNEYS TO REPRESENT THEM INSTEAD OF I BELIEVE HER.

THERE'S THE ISSUE THAT JEREMY BROUGHT UP OF MAYES BEING A DEMOCRAT INVESTIGATING ANOTHER DEMOCRAT IN TERMS OF GOVERNOR HOBBS, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN ISSUES AND INSTANCES OVER THE YEARS OF ATTORNEYS GENERAL AND GOVERNORS OF THE SAME PARTY HAVING INVESTIGATION, THE AG INVESTIGATING THE GOVERNOR OF THE SAME PARTY.

IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE, A LOT OF FOLKS ARE SAYING THAT'S NOT MUCH OF AN ISSUE.

>> YOU GOT TO LOOK AHEAD DOWN THE ROAD AND WONDER WHAT HAPPENS IF ONE AGENCY SAYS WE FOUND CRIMINAL WRONGDOING AND FILING CHARGES AND ANOTHER SAYING WE ARE GOING FILE CHARGES.

MAYES SAID MY FELLOW DEMOCRAT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG AND REPUBLICAN MITCHELL SAYS CRIMES WERE COMMITTED AND WE'RE INDICTING PEOPLE.

WHAT HAPPENS IF WITNESSES GIVE DIFFERENT STORIES TO DIFFERENT AGENCIES, YOU SIT FOR ONE, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, YOU SIT FOR THE NEXT ONE, NOW I KNOW HOW TO DEFLECT WHAT'S GOING ON.

THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS, LOT OF CONFLICT THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HAPPEN HERE, AND INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THEY WORK TOGETHER, IF THEY WORK TOGETHER, IF THEY TRY TO AVOID STEPPING ON EACH OTHER'S TOES OR DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING SO FAR, I'M GOING TO GO MY WAY AND YOU GO YOURS.

TED: BOB, IS THAT THE AUDITOR GENERAL'S WAY?

>> AUDITOR LINDSEY PERRY HAS A VERY GOOD REPUTATION FOR BEING EVEN HANDED AND DIGS INTO DIFFERENT STATE AGENCIES ALL THE TIME.

DIGS INTO SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND PROVIDES THE AUDITOR GENERAL'S OFFICE DOES YEOMAN'S WORK FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST DECADE AND A HALF OF WATCHING THEM.

THEY SEEM TO BE COMPLETELY NONPARTISAN.

THE FACT THEY'RE PARTNERING WITH RACHEL MITCHELL AT THE COUNTY, AND I DON'T RECALL THEY SPECIFICALLY SAID THEY WOULD WORK WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT SURPRISING, YOU KNOW, AND WE HAVE COMPETING LAWMAKERS, TOO.

T.J. SHOPE, A STATE SENATOR ORIGINALLY ASKED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO LOOK INTO, IT AND DAVID LIVINGSTON THE APPROPRIATIONS CHAIR IN THE HOUSE ASKED RACHEL MITCHELL, SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY IS RUSHING TO THE COURTHOUSE OR TO THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE AND DIDN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER.

IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR KRIS MAYES CHIEF DEPUTY AND RACHEL MITCHELL'S CHIEF DEPUTY TO HAVE LUNCH AND COME UP WITH A PLAN.

THAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT, COUPLE UP WITH AN AGREEMENT TO SPREAD THE WORK, HAVE BOTH AGENCIES INVOLVED AND GET A NONPARTISAN, LEGITIMATE INVESTIGATION DONE.

TED: ALL RIGHT, BOB, STICKING WITH YOU, NOW, GET TO SPEAKING OF AGREEMENTS, SPEAKING OF NEGOTIATIONS, SPEAKING OF LONG LUNCHES.

A BUDGET WORKED ON AT THE CAPITOL.

WHAT IS THIS A FOUR-YEAR DRAFT PLAN MAKING THE ROUNDS?

HOW FAR ALONG ARE THEY ON THIS?

>> THEY'RE SO FAR ALONG THEY WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF TOMORROW MORNING, THEY HAVE ADJOURNED FOR THE YEAR.

TED: WOW.

>> IT'S POSSIBLE THEY DON'T GET IT DONE, BUT THEY STARTED DEBATING THE BUDGET THIS AFTERNOON IN THE SENATE.

THEY HAD APPROPRIATIONS HEARING IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SEASON.

IT'S TEED UP AND READY FOR VOTES WITH COMING AMENDMENTS.

ANY TIME YOU HAVE A $16 BILLION BUDGET, IT CUTS 1.4 BILLION, THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE WHO RUN TO THE LEGISLATURE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE CUT HERE, SHOULDN'T HAVE CUT THERE, AND SOMETIMES THE LEGISLATURE LISTENS.

THAT'S WHAT AMENDMENTS ARE FOR AND THOSE ARE BEING DRAFTED AS WE SPEAK.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVEN'T HAD BOTH SO FAR TODAY, BUT I SAY IT'S COMING, AND IF THEY GOT THE VOTES, WHICH I THINK THEY PROBABLY DO, WE COULD BE DONE BY TOMORROW.

TED: JEREMY, WHERE ARE THE CUTS COMING HERE AND THERE?

>> COMING FROM A LOT OF PLACES.

ALMOST EVERY STATE AGENCY IS TAKING LIKE A 3.45% CUT, DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

PUBLIC SAFETY-RELATED STUFF.

THE SINGLE BIGGEST CUT IS 333 MILLION DOLLARS.

THE THIRD PART OF A THREE-YEAR, $3 BILLION PLAN DOUG DUCEY PUT INTO PLACE FOR A WATER AUGMENTATION FUND TO EITHER FUND WATER AUGMENTATION PROJECT OR CRITICS PIE IN THE SKY THAT A BILLION DOLLARS ISN'T ENOUGH TO DO A DESALINATION PLANT.

THIS IS A MAJOR CRISIS WE'RE FACING, SUPPOSED TO HELP US FIND NEW SOURCES OF WATER.

SOME OF THAT MONEY WAS TAKEN LAST YEAR, THE ENTIRE 333 MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE THIRD YEAR IS COMPLETELY SWEPT.

HAVE YOU HIGHWAY PROJECTS THAT ARE BEING EITHER COMPLETELY CUT OR DEFERRED FOR A FEW YEARS.

UNIVERSITIES ARE TAKING HITS.

COMMERCE AUTHORITY.

MONEY IS COMING FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES.

TED: MARK, LOT OF AGENCY FUNDS, AS JEREMY MENTIONED.

LOT OF THINGS FROM A LOT OF ANGLES, ONE HIT NOT BEING HIT, ESAs, THIRD RAIL HERE, HUH?

>> YEAH, GOVERNOR HOBBS MADE THIS A BIG ISSUE, SHE REALLY WANTS SOME CHANGES TO THE UNIVERSAL ESA PROGRAM.

SHE TEASED EARLIER THIS WEEK THERE WOULD BE GUARDRAILS COMING, AND THERE ARE SOME MINOR CHANGES.

I THINK ONE OF THE MOST NOTABLE ONES IS THIS ISSUE OF WHAT SOME ARE CALLING DOUBLE DIPPING, A STUDENT WILL BE IN PUBLIC SCHOOL, DO A SUMMER SCHOOL PROGRAM OR TUTORING, GET ESA FOR THAT AND GO BACK TO PUBLIC SCHOOL SO THE STATE IS PAYING FOR THEM TO BE IN PUBLIC SCHOOL AND THE ESA.

THERE'S A PROPOSAL TO DO AWAY WITH THAT.

THERE IS A FINGERPRINTING REQUIREMENTS, FEW OTHER THINGS IN THERE.

THE FOLKS I'VE SPOKEN, HAVE DESCRIBED THESE AS AT THE MARGINS AND NOT SOMETHING THAT IS SUPER SIGNIFICANT.

TED: I FELT LIKE $2.5 BILLION FOR THE DOUBLE DIPPING THING.

THAT'S NICE.

BOB, WE'RE TALKING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HERE, AS JEREMY MENTIONED, WHEN THE WATER AUGMENTATION WAS BIG, THAT WAS A BIG DEAL, VERY IMPORTANT, YOU CAN'T SAY NO.

NOW THEY'RE SAYING NO, BUT THE ESAs, YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT.

>> NOT EVEN TAKEN THE 333 MILLION THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TAKEN FROM THE WATER FUND THIS YEAR, TAKING IT BACK.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE LEFT WITH LESS THAN HALF OF THE BILLION DOLLARS FOR THE FUND.

AS FAR AS VOUCHERS ARE CONCERNED, ESAs, THEY'RE ON TRACK FOR $700 MILLION NEXT YEAR OR SO, A YEAR.

THAT IS A BIG CHUNK OF MONEY.

A LOT OF THE MONEY IS GOING TO PAY FOR TUITION FOR STUDENTS WHOSE PARENTS WERE EASILY ABLE TO ALREADY AFFORD TO SEND THEM TO PUBLIC -- OR TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

IT IS A THIRD RAIL FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

THEY REFUSE TO MAKE ANY LIMITATIONS ON THE USE OF THAT MONEY, THERE'S NO MEANS TEST.

YOU CAN BE A BILLIONAIRE AND STILL GET YOUR $7500 FROM THE STATE TO SEND YOUR KID TO PRIVATE SCHOOL AS OPPOSED TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

TED: WITH THAT IN MIND, BOB, REAL QUICKLY HERE, WHAT DID THE GOVERNOR, THE NEGOTIATIONS HERE, THE GOVERNOR GIVE AND TAKE, LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP GIVE AND TAKE, WHAT DID THE GOVERNOR WIN HERE?

>> THE GOVERNOR WON THREE THINGS, SPECIFICALLY.

THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN PUSHING ALL SESSION FOR SOME TYPE OF SAFETY PROTECTION FOR STUDENTS WHO GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

THERE WAS NO BACKGROUND CHECKS REQUIRED FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLTEACHERS OR STUDENT AIDES OF ANY TYPE.

THEY ALL HAVE TO BE FINGERPRINTED NOW, HAVE TO HAVE BACKGROUND CHECKS.

THEY CAN'T BE AROUND STUDENTS IF THE BOARD OF EDUCATION HAS SUSPENDED THEIR TEACHING CERTIFICATE.

NONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE IN PLACE BEFORE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS, SOME OF THEM DIDN'T DO THESE THINGS ALREADY, NOW THE DOCUMENTATION HAS TO BE DONE.

WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE DOUBLE DIPPING PART, AND THE THIRD PORTION HAS TO DO WITH ACCOUNTABILITY ACTUALLY GOING IN AND AUDITING SOME SPENDING, AND THERE'S A LIMITATION ON THERE'S GOING TO BE A LIST OF THINGS CAN YOU ACTUALLY BUY THAT'S DEVELOPED SO SOME OF THESE STORIES ABOUT THOUSAND DOLLAR LEGO SETS THAT ARE BOUGHT WITH VOUCHER MONEY, CAN'T HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.

THOSE ARE THE THREE THINGS.

TED: WINNERS?

LOSERS?

WHAT DO YOU SEE?

>> ONE LOSER IS ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, THOUGHT KRIS MAYES AND KATIE HOBBS WERE GETTING TOO COZY LATELY.

KRIS MAYES IS SAYING IT VIOLATES THE FEDERAL AGREEMENT, AND SAYS IF IT GETS SWEPT I'M GOING TO SUE AND WE'RE GOING TO GET THE MONEY BACK.

SOME DEMOCRATS, MAYBE SOME REPUBLICANS COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT BEING IN THE BUDGET AND WANTING THAT REMOVED.

THAT IS ONE OF THE MAJOR STICKING POINTS SO FAR.

TED: WASN'T THAT MONEY SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR HELPING FUND STATE PRISONS?

ISN'T THAT WHERE IT'S GOING?

>> THAT'S WHERE THE BUDGET WOULD HAVE IT GO.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THE MONEY IS ALLOWED TO BE USED FOR.

>> EXCEPT THEIR USING THE MONEY FOR HEPATITIS C TREATMENT WHICH IS REQUIRED UNDER THE FEDERAL COURT, JUDGE'S ORDER, YOU GET HEPATITIS C VARIOUS WAYS BUT PRIMARILY THROUGH DRUG USE, INTRAVENOUS DRUG USE.

THE OTHER 75 MILLION IS FOR MEDICATION THERAPY, THE MEDICATIONS THEY PRESCRIBE TO INMATES WITH OPIOID USE DISORDER.

TECHNICALLY THEY SAY IT MEETS THE STANDARDS.

>> JEREMY, WINNERS AND LOSERS, CAN GOVERNOR GO TO DEMOCRATS, THE RANK AND FILE AND SAY I DID THE BEST I COULD, ARE THEY SATISFIED WITH THIS?

>> THEY WEREN'T LAST YEAR.

SHE GOT A GOOD NUMBER OF DEMOCRATIC VOTES FOR THE BUDGET LAST YEAR.

THERE'S STILL GOING TO BE FOLKS WHO ARE UNHAPPY THEY DIDN'T GET IT.

THE ESA IS THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT, WE HEARD THAT THE MOMENT HOBBS TOOK OFFICE.

SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE UNIVERSAL EXPANSION.

DEMOCRATS ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT.

LIBERAL EDUCATION GROUPS RALLYING AGAINST THAT, BUT I THINK THE FACT REMAINS THAT I THINK SOME POINT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT EITHER THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE LEGISLATURE AND PUT SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT TO REIN THIS IN OR HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE PROGRAM PRETTY MUCH AS IS.

TED: STOP IT RIGHT THERE.

GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.