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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

A LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES FIGHTING THE GOVERNOR AND STATE LEGISLATURE OVER THIS YEAR'S BUDGET.

JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITIONS OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US JIM SMALL OF THE "ARIZONA MIRROR."

CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF KJZZ RADIO AND MARY JO PITZL FROM "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC."

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO START WITH, THE LAWSUIT OR THE BUDGET, BUT THE LAWSUIT STARTS WITH THE BUDGET, SO START WITH THE BUDGET.

GOT RID OF $1.4 BILLION DEFICIT.

HOW DID THEY DO THAT?

>> SPENDING CUTS, PULLING BACK TRANSFERS, EVERYTHING FROM 300 SOME ODD MILLION DOLLARS FOR WATER INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS TO DELAYING HIGHWAY PROJECTS THAT WERE APPROVED LAST YEAR TO CUTS IN MOST STATE AGENCIES AND JUST ABOUT EVERYWHERE TOOK A HAIR CUT.

I KNOW WE'LL TALK ABOUT IN MORE DETAILS.

MONEY FROM THE OPIOID SETTLEMENT.

THE NATIONAL OPIOID SETTLEMENT THAT ARIZONA IS A PARTY TO REALLY WAS AN EFFORT IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO YOU GET DIVIDED GOVERNMENT TO AGREE ON A SIZABLE BUDGET DEFICIT.

BUDGET LAST YEAR WAS 17 SOME ODD BILLION DOLLARS.

THIS YEAR 16 BILLION DOLLARS.

THEY WERE ABLE TO COBBLE THE VOTES THEY NEEDED IN A MOTLEY FASHION OF REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, MOST OF THE BILLS BARREL PASSED.

HAD A LOT OF ANGER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE BUT ABLE TO GET IT DONE AND WHERE THEY NEEDED TO BE.

TED: CAMRYN, THE ANGER WAS FOLKS FELT LEFT OUT OF THE PROCESS.

WE HEARD THIS BEFORE.

>> YEAH, ALL THE TIME.

BEFORE WE HAD A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, IT WAS ALWAYS THE DEMOCRATS THE ONLY ONES LEFT OUT OF THE PROCESS.

IT WAS LIKE YOU HAVE TO INCLUDE US TOO, WE WERE ELECTED, TOO.

LAST YEAR THEY WERE UPSET THAT THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR DIDN'T INCLUDE THEM AS MUCH AS THEY EXPECTED I THINK, BUT THIS YEAR SLIGHTLY MORE.

SO YOU HEARD FROM BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS THIS TIME SAYING WE DIDN'T FEEL INCLUDED ENOUGH, IT WAS LARGELY A BUDGET NEGOTIATED BY THE GOVERNOR, HOUSE SPEAKER AND SENATE PRESIDENT, AND SOME MEMBERS DIDN'T GET ANY DOCUMENTS UNTIL A COUPLE OF DAYS BEFORE THEY WERE ASKED TO VOTE ON THEM.

UNFORTUNATELY IS COMMON PLACE FOR THE BUDGET.

TED: IT WASN'T ALWAYS COMMON PLACE, WAS IT?

I REMEMBER HEARINGS AND ALL THINGS IN THE DIM AND DISTANT PAST.

>> I DON'T KNOW, I THINK EVEN BEFORE ME, WHICH SAYS A LOT.

TED: IT DID SEEM AS THOUGH THERE WAS MORE INVOLVEMENT THAN THERE IS NOW?

>> THERE WAS A TIME IN THE EARLY YEARS OF LELA ALSTON'S TENURE AT THE STATE CAPITOL, A DEMOCRATIC STATE SENATOR, THEY HAD SUBCOMMITTEES THAT WOULD EXAMINE AGENCIES, MAKE PROPOSALS THAT WOULD STICK.

THAT WENT AWAY A LONG TIME AGO.

TED: SO WITH THAT IN MIND, RANK AND FILE NOT HAPPY, BUT WE GOT THE GOVERNOR.

JIM, THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE GOVERNOR ALL THAT MUCH, TRUE?

>> TRUE.

DEMOCRATS WERE UPSET I THINK IN LARGE PART, THEY LOOKED AT THE BUDGET AND SAID THERE'S A LOT OF SPENDING CUTS.

OTHER WAYS WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN TO WHERE WE'RE GOING.

FIRST AND FOREMOST THE RAINY DAY FUNDS, WHICH IS THERE FOR IT'S THE STATE SOCKING AWAY MONEY TO USE TO BRIDGE TEMPORARY SHORT FALSE WHICH MOST EVERYONE AGREES WHAT THIS IS.

WE'RE NOT FACING A MASSIVE RECESSION LIKE 15 YEARS AGO WHERE THE STATE WAS DROWNING IN RED INK FOR YEARS ON END.

YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A LOT OF FOLKS WHO SAID WHY AREN'T WE DIPPING INTO THAT?

WHY AREN'T WE NOT TOUCHING THAT AND USING THAT TO WEATHER THESE CUTS.

AND DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN BANGING THE DRUM FOR A COUPLE YEARS ABOUT THE SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM, THE UNIVERSAL EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNTS AND SAYING LOOK, THIS PROGRAM IS OUT OF CONTROL.

SO MUCH LARGER THAN ANYONE ANTICIPATED AND IT'S SUBSIDIZING WEALTHY PARENTS TO SEND KIDS TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

THERE SHOULD BE GUARDRAILS, PUT LIMITS, CAP IT, KEEP IT FROM SPIRALING OUT OF THE CONTROL.

SOMETHING THE GOVERNOR MENTIONED IN STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH AND SAID SHE WAS GOING TO ELIMINATE THE UNIVERSAL EXPANSION.

WITH REPUBLICANS IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT THERE WERE VERY SMALL GUARDRAILS PUT IN PLACE IN TERMS OF FINGERPRINTING TEACHERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT NOTHING THAT'S GOING TO SAVE MONEY, AND THAT WAS A THING THAT, I THINK A LOT OF DEMOCRATS POINTED TO THAT TOO, WE COULD WIPE OUT A HUGE PORTION OF THE DEFICIT IF WE WERE TO REALLY PUT RESTRICTIONS ON THE MONEY.

TED: HOW DID THE GOVERNOR SELL THIS TO DEMOCRATS?

>> WHAT?

SELL THE BUDGET ITSELF?

TED: YES.

>> IT'S A COMPROMISE, THIS IS THE BEST WE COULD DO.

A LITTLE BIT OF IT WAS ONE AGAINST TWO.

THOUGH SHE IS THE GOVERNOR, AND THEY HAVE CONTROL OF A CHAMBER EACH, SPEAKER TOMA AND PRESIDENT PETERSON.

WE ALL KNOW THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE FUN, WE HAVE TO TIGHTEN OUR BELTS AND DID GET SOME WINS, AND YOU CAN SEE IT AS YOU READ THE AMENDMENTS, THE THINGS THAT WERE TACKED ON THE LAST COUPLE OF HOURS, THINGS THAT LEAN MORE TOWARDS THE SOCIAL SERVICES END OF THE SPECTRUM.

$15 MILLION FOR THE HOUSING TRUST FUND, WHICH A LOT OF DEMOCRATS ARE QUICK TO SAY THAT'S A QUICK WIN IN A DEFICIT YEAR.

LAST YEAR THEY PUT 150 MILLION, TEN TIMES THAT INTO THE BUDGET, WHICH AGAIN IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

WE HAD THIS MASSIVE WILD SWING IN HOW MUCH MONEY THE STATE HAD TO PLAY WITH IN ONE YEAR, WE SPENT IT ALL.

TED: WINNERS AND LOSERS OUT OF ALL THIS, WHAT DO YOU SEE?

>> LEVELS OF LOSERS.

EVERYONE WAS BUMMED OUT.

LAST YEAR THEY HAD MONEY, IT WAS LIKE TAKING CANDY AND THIS YEAR THEY TOOK THE CANDY BACK.

YOU START OFF THE YEAR WITH A HUGE DEFICIT YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH, THERE WERE ALWAYS CUTS INEVITABLY SOMEWHERE, SOME WERE NOT SURPRISING, LIKE THE TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS, FOR EXAMPLE.

I KNOW OTHER AGENCIES ARE UPSET, BUT HAD TO TAKE CUTS BUT WASN'T REALLY AN OPTION.

>> AND ESAs, A COUPLE MILLION DOLLARS TO KEEP YOUR SUMMER SCHOOLKIDS FROM COMING IN?

>> THEY CALLED IT DOUBLE DIPPING.

A PROVISION TO GET RID OF THAT BUT CUTS 2.5 MILLION.

THE GUARDRAILS AREN'T SOMETHING PEOPLE ARE TRIPPING OVER, AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE STEADFAST ABOUT THE ESA THING.

I THINK THE DEMOCRATS ARE HOPING IF THEY GET AN INCH, THEY CAN TAKE A MILE AND HOPE THE REPUBLICANS ARE KEEN ON STOPPING IT RIGHT HERE.

OF COURSE, THE DEMOCRATS HOPE THEY CAN FLIP THE LEGISLATURE AND UNDO THE WHOLE THING ALTOGETHER.

>> I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT TECHNICALLY, ONE OF THE BIG LOSERS WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES.

IN THE LAST COUPLE DAYS OF THE SESSION, SHE LOOKED AT THAT BUDGET AND SAID MY GOODNESS, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE LIKE $125 MILLION OUT OF THIS NATIONAL OPIOID SETTLEMENT THAT CAME TO ARIZONA A COUPLE YEARS AGO AND PUT IT INTO THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.

THIS IS JUST WRONG.

IT DOESN'T FOLLOW THE PROCESS FOR ALLOCATING THIS MONEY, AND I'M GOING TO SUE, I'M GOING SUE, I'M GOING TO SUE.

WELL, GUESS WHAT?

TED: BEFORE WE GET TOO FAR AFIELD HERE, AS FAR AS SINE DIE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE IMPEACHMENT PROCESS HERE?

>> I DON'T KNOW, WE'LL SEE.

>> FORGOT ABOUT THAT, RIGHT?

OBVIOUSLY THEY ENDED THE SESSION, THEY DIDN'T GO FORWARD WITH IMPEACHMENT, AND I THINK GETTING THE BUDGET DONE IS AS GOOD EXCUSE AS ANY TO LET'S FOLD UP THE CIRCUS TENTS AND GO HOME.

IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR, EVERYONE HAS TO GET ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF JUNE FOR GOODNESS SAKES.

THIS IS A LONG SESSION AS IT IS.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE WANTED TO BE DOWN THERE LONGER THAN THEY NEEDED TO.

TED: SIDEWAYS QUESTION FOR CAMRYN, WINNERS AND LOSERS OVERALL IN THE SESSION?

>> I THINK WE SAW REPUBLICANS RESPOND DIFFERENTLY TO GOVERNOR HOBBS, TO HAVING A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR IN PLACE THAN THE FIRST YEAR.

THE FIRST YEAR WAS ABOUT THROWING EVERYTHING THEY COULD AT HER, AND, YOU KNOW, DARING HER TO VETO AS MANY BILLS AS SHE DID, AND SHE SET A SINGLE SESSION RECORD AND HALFWAY THROUGH THIS SESSION, SET A CAREER RECORD IN 1 1/2 SESSIONS, SO THEY CERTAINLY WEREN'T SHY ABOUT DOING THAT BUT REVISED TACTICS AND ACCEPT THE THINGS OFF TO THE BALLOT.

WE HAVE A REALLY LONG BALLOT BECAUSE THAN I THEY CAN TRY TO CIRCUMVENT HER VETO THAT WAY.

AND I THINK THAT IN A WAY THAT'S A WIN FOR BOTH REPUBLICANS AT THE LEGISLATURE AND FOR GOVERNOR HOBBS BECAUSE SHE WAS ABLE TO SHOW THAT SHE WAS ABLE TO STAND FIRM AND WOULDN'T KOWTOW TO THEM, AND WOULDN'T BLINK IF THEY KEPT SENDING HER THINGS AND I THINK REPUBLICANS TOOK THAT AND KIND OF RAN WITH IT AND SAID IF YOU'RE GOING TO VETO OUR STUFF WE'RE GOING TO GO TO THE VOTERS AND GET A MANDATE FROM THE VOTERS.

>> IF YOU SUPPORT ABORTION RIGHTS, THAT WAS A BIG WINNER BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE WITH SOME REPUBLICAN HELP DID OVERTURN THE 1864 NEAR-TOTAL ABORTION BAN.

THAT WILL FEED INTO THE FALL'S CAMPAIGN, BUT THAT LAW IS NOW OR SOON WILL BE, TECHNICALLY OFF THE BOOKS, LITERALLY OFF THE BOOKS.

TED: AND THE SESSION AS A WHOLE, WHAT DID YOU SEE?

>> THOSE ARE BOTH GOOD POINTS.

I WOULD ALSO MENTION THE BORDER, THAT WAS A BIG ONE, AND PUTTING THE BORDER MEASURE ON THE BALLOT.

MORE INFORMATION YET TO COME DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS IN THE ELECTION, BUT IN THE BUDGET, PUBLIC SAFETY WAS PRIORITIZED.

SOME OF THE ONLY AGENCIES THAT DIDN'T TAKE CUTS WERE DEPARTMENT OF CHILD SAFETY, PUBLIC SAFETY AND BORDER.

>> AND THE AUDITOR GENERAL.

>> I LIKE THE AUDITOR GENERAL.

TED: ALL RIGHT, MARY JO, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SUING OVER THE BUDGET SWEEP.

WHAT WAS THE BUDGET SWEEP ABOUT?

WHAT DID THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR AGREE TO DO, AND WHY IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL UPSET AND THE COURT AGREED WITH HER, TO BLOCK IT A LITTLE BIT.

>> RIGHT.

THE BUDGET CALLED, IF AS I SAID EARLIER.

75 MILLION TO COME OUT OF THIS YEAR'S BUDGET WHICH EXPIRES NEXT WEEK AND ANOTHER 40 MILLION FOR EACH OF THE NEXT THREE YEARS.

THAT'S $195 MILLION OVER FOUR YEARS, IF YOU FOLLOWED THROUGH ON ALL THAT.

AND MAYES RAN AROUND WITH HER HAIR ON FIRE TALKING TO THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUSES, TRYING TO RALLY SUPPORT, SAYING THIS IS NOT THE WAY THE OPIOID SETTLEMENT MONEY IS TO BE DISTRIBUTED.

THERE'S A PROCESS.

PROCESS IS THAT THE LEGISLATURE APPROVES A CHUNK OF MONEY AND THE AG DECIDES HOW IT GETS SPENT.

WELL, THE BUDGET TOOK CARE OF HOW IT'S GOING TO GET SPENT.

THEY SENT IT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS ARGUING IT'S GOING TO BE USED.

WE HAVE INMATES WITH OPIOID PROBLEMS.

DESPITE THAT, SEEMED LIKE SHE WAS GAINING TRACTION ON THAT.

THE LEGISLATURE PLOWED AHEAD AND GOVERNOR HOBBS AND THEY PASSED THE BUDGET, SHE SIGNED IT, AND COUPLE DAYS LATER, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SUED BOTH THE STATE AND THE GOVERNOR, AND IT'S BEEN PUT LIKE A PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION WAS GRANTED SO THERE'S MORE TIME TO SORT THROUGH THIS AND THEY'LL BE BACK IN COURT ON JULY 5.

TED: JIM, GOOD CAUSE TO BELIEVE THE PRISON SYSTEM HAS NO PLANS TO USE THE FUNDS IN LINE WITH THE SETTLEMENT.

I MEAN, THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT SHE'S SAYING.

>> YEAH, TO MARY JO'S POINT, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GETS TO DIRECT WHERE THE MONEY IS SPENT, AND THE MONEY HAS TO BE SPENT ON SPECIFIC THINGS, RIGHT?

I THINK THEY REALLY TRY TO -- WHEN THEY CRAFTED THE SETTLEMENT, TRIED TO LEARN FROM THE TOBACCO SETTLEMENTS IN THE 90s, WHERE STATES GOT THE MASSIVE WINDFALLS OF MONEY, AND SOME STATES USED IT FOR NOTHING THAT HAD NOTHING TO USE FOR THE TOBACCO SETTLEMENT.

THEY USED IT FOR A LOT OF OTHER PROGRAMS.

THIS IS MUCH MORE TAILORED.

FOR ABATEMENT AND REHAB AND TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE EITHER GET OFF OF OPIOIDS OR PREVENT PEOPLE FROM GETTING ONTO THEM.

CERTAINLY WE'VE GOT THE OPIOID CRISIS IS NOT OVER.

IT'S NO LONGER PILLS PEOPLE ARE GETTING FROM PHARMACIES, WE HAVE THE FENTANYL AND TRANK AND HEROIN, AND THINGS THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS SPENDING THIS MONEY ON AND HER ARGUMENT IS, LOOK, THIS IS GOING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS AND LEGISLATURE IS TAKING MONEY OUT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET AND BACKFILLING THIS MONEY.

THEY CITED IN THERE COMMENTS FROM LEGISLATIVE BUDGET ANALYSTS TO LAWMAKERS IN A BRIEFING THAT WHERE THEY ACKNOWLEDGE, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING, WE'RE BRINGING MONEY IN THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR AND TAKING IT OUT THE BACK DOOR.

THIS IS NOT GIVING THE DEPARTMENT ANY NEW MONEY, NOT DOING ANYTHING WITH IT OTHER THAN OPERATING WITH IT.

TED: GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SAYING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS FLATLY WRONG.

>> TO ADD CONTEXT TO THIS.

WE WON THIS LAWSUIT AGAINST THE MANUFACTURERS OF THE OPIOIDS AS A HUGE WIN FOR ARIZONA, BUT THE RESTRICTIONS ON IT ARE PRETTY SPECIFIC.

WE ALSO LOST A LAWSUIT WITH DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, UNFORTUNATELY, THE DEPARTMENT WASN'T TREATING PEOPLE AS NICELY AS THE COURT THOUGHT THEY SHOULD.

I'VE HEARD THE ARGUMENT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE IN PRISON WHO DO DRUGS, SO IT'S FINE.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO FLY IN COURT.

THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION.

I HEARD FROM THE HOUSE SPEAKER BEFORE THEY PASSED THE BUDGET, MAYES SAID SHE'S GOING TO SUE HERSELF IN THE PAST, MAYBE SHE WON'T DO IT BUT SHE DID IT.

MAYES HOLDS PURSE STRINGS AND DOESN'T HAVE TO HAND OVER THE MONEY AND THE LEGISLATURE SAYING NO, WE CONTROL THE MONEY.

THERE'S A LOT TO BE DETERMINED IN THIS CASE AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS IS WHAT IF THE COURT FINDS OUT THAT MAYES IS RIGHT ABOUT THIS AND DID THE BUDGET WRONG, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE REST OF THE BUDGET AND SHOULD THE FUNDING FOR THE DEPARTMENT AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MONEY?

TED: I THINK I ASKED YOU THAT QUESTION EARLY IN THE WEEK, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE MONEY GOES AWAY?

>> WE'RE BACK INTO A DEFICIT.

IF THE MONEY GOES AWAY, IT WON'T BE BEFORE JUNE 30 WHEN THE CURRENT YEAR BUDGET IS DONE.

SO TECHNICALLY, YOU TAKE THAT MONEY AWAY IN JULY OR AUGUST OR SEPTEMBER, YOU'RE BACK TO A DEFICIT, AND WHO'S GOING TO SUE?

THAT'S WHAT I SAY.

WE'VE GOT TO HAVE THE BUDGET DONE, GOT TO BE IN PLACE BY JULY 1 AND YEARS AGO, I THINK JIM, YOU WERE AROUND WHEN THE SENATE TURNED OFF THE CLOCK, APPROACHING MIDNIGHT ON JUNE 30.

READY TO TURN TO JULY 1, WHO'S GOING TO SUE IF THE STATE GOES BACK INTO A DEFICIT?

IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE.

IT'S NEVER HAPPENED, AT LEAST IN CONTEMPORARY HISTORY.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS, YOU'RE RIGHT.

MARY JO IS RIGHT.

THE STATE IS GOING TO END UP BACK IN A DEFICIT AND THE LAWMAKERS ARE GOING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH IT AND HOW TO GET THE ACCOUNTING IN ORDER.

GET THE MONEY WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE.

IT COULD BE A SPECIAL SESSION AFTER THE ELECTION, COULD BE SOMETHING THEY HANDLE WHEN THEY COME BACK IN JANUARY, WAITING TO SEE WHAT THE LEGISLATURE LOOKS LIKE.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF POSSIBILITIES FOR HOW THEY COULD DEAL WITH IT.

>> AND EVEN MAYES, WHEN SHE WAS SPREADING THE MESSAGE LAST WEEK.

SHE SAID, LOOK, I'D BE WILLING TO HAVE 20 MILLION GO INTO THE CURRENT YEAR BUDGET, BUT SHE RAISED THE RAINY DAY FUND.

THE RAINY DAY FUND IS ALMOST $1.5 BILLION.

THEY DIDN'T TOUCH IT THIS YEAR BECAUSE THERE'S A BELIEF THAT THE PROBLEMS, SOME OF THESE ARE STRUCTURAL.

YOU WANT TO USE YOUR RAINY DAY FUNDING FOR ONE-TIME THINGS LIKE WHEN THE FRANCIS SCOTT KEY BRIDGE GOT KNOCKED DOWN, THE STATE OF MARYLAND WAS ABLE TO USE RAINY DAY TO GET IT FIXED UP.

TED: LAST QUESTION ON THIS, DOES IT SHOW THAT THE GOVERNOR AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ARE NOT PALS ANYMORE?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE EVER BEST FRIENDS, BUT THEY'VE BEEN AT ODDS IN THE PAST AND THIS IS ONE OF THE TIMES.

>> OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON.

WE'LL STICK WITH YOU.

TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNOR VETO.

I THINK SHE SIGNED THREE WATER BILLS.

VETOED FIVE OTHERS, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> WELL, I AM GOING TO MAKE IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE.

THE LEGISLATURE PUT UP A LOT OF WATER BILLS THIS SESSION.

LIKE ONE LAWMAKER PUT UP AT LEAST 30.

A LOT HAVE TO DO WITH GROUND WATER, AND SOME WERE SLIGHT CHANGES, SOME WERE QUITE LARGE.

THE ONES SHE PASSED ARE SLIGHT, ADDRESSING SPECIFIC REGIONAL ISSUES WITH WATER, BUT THERE WERE TWO MAIN BILLS I WOULD SAY, ONE ON RURAL AND ONE ON URBAN GROUND WATER CONSERVATION.

ONE OF THEM DIED ON THE LAST DAY OF SESSION, THE RURAL.

AND ONE WENT UP TO HER DESK AND GOT VETOED, THE URBAN.

THERE WAS AN AG TO URBAN PLAN, INCENTIVIZING PEOPLE WHO HELD OVER AGRICULTURE GROUND WATER PUMPING RIGHTS AND PAYING THEM TO GIVE UP THE RIGHTS AND CHANGE THEM INTO URBAN PUMPING RIGHTS WHICH IS MUCH LESS WATER IN URBAN AREAS.

THAT'S WHAT THE MEMBERS OF THE WATER POLICY COUNCIL SAID BECAUSE THEY MET THIS WEEK, COINCIDENTALLY.

EVERYONE AGREED THERE IS NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION, NOT ENOUGH DATA HOW IT WOULD WORK.

THEY ONLY HAVE STUDIES HOW IT COULD POTENTIALLY WORK IN THE PINAL AMA, IT'S NOT CLEAR HOW IT WOULD GO IF PEOPLE TAKE THE GOVERNMENT UP ON THE OFFER, WHETHER IT'S NECESSARY TO DO IT, ET CETERA.

TED: THE GOVERNOR VETOED, SAID THEY THREATEN WATER SUPPLIES AND FAIL TO ENSURE WATER SUPPLIES WILL BE SUSTAINED.

THAT'S WHAT THE BOTTOM LINE WAS?

>> PART OF THE PUSH TO INTRODUCE THE BILLS, THE ONES THAT GOT VETOED.

HOBBS, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS SHE DID IS PUT THE MORATORIUM ON PARTS OF NEW HOUSING IN THE METRO AREA IN QUEEN CREEK AND BUCKEYE BECAUSE SHE SAID THERE WAS AN ADWR REPORT SAYING THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH WATER THERE TO SHOW THEY COULD BE BUILDING NEW HOMES AND BUILDINGS AND SUCH OUT THERE BECAUSE THEY COULD POTENTIALLY RUN OUT OF WATER.

SO IN RESPONSE TO THE MORATORIUM, THE AG TO URBAN IS ONE OF THE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS, LIKE, OKAY, WE NEED TO BE BUILDING IN BUCKEYE AND QUEEN CREEK, COULD THIS BE A SOLUTION TO THAT.

>> I HEARD FROM REPRESENTATIVE ALEXANDER COLADAN, HE'S IN FAVOR OF THE BILLS BEING VETOED.

AS I UNDERSTAND IT FROM THE GOVERNOR'S VETO LETTER, THEY'RE BRINGING THIS BACK, SHE THINKS THEY'RE GETTING CLOSE ON THAT.

WILL THERE BE A SPECIAL SESSION?

MAYBE WHEN THEY'RE FIXING THE BUDGET.

I DON'T KNOW.

THEY WOULD DO SOMETHING THIS YEAR THAT WOULD ADDRESS THE WAY TO TRANSFER MONEY FROM AG LANDS TO URBAN USES WHICH WOULD REDUCE THE AMOUNT WATER FOR AGRICULTURE, WHICH HAS A BIG CONSTITUENCY.

THEY MADE LOTS OF CUTS ESPECIALLY IN PINAL.

TED: THERE WERE TALKS, JIM, POSSIBLY, MAYBE THE GOVERNOR CALLING A SPECIAL SESSION ON JUST THIS TOPIC?

>> YES, THERE'S TALK ABOUT IT.

WHETHER THAT HAPPENS, SPECIAL SESSIONS DON'T GET CALLED UNTIL THERE'S AN AGREEMENT IN PLACE, UNTIL THERE IS UNDERSTANDING.

WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HAVING TO GATHER DATA AND FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, THAT'S NOT A PROCESS THAT NECESSARILY HAPPENS OVERNIGHT, AND THEN ONCE YOU FIGURE THAT OUT, YOU HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH LEGISLATION, TAKE IT TO THE LEGISLATORS AND BUY-IN FOR IT AND SHOW UP AND DO THIS EXPEDITIOUSLY.

WE'VE GOT AN ELECTION, EARLY BALLOTS SHOW UP IN PEOPLE'S MAILBOXES IN A COUPLE WEEKS.

THE ELECTION IS THE END OF JULY.

THE PRIMARY.

I DON'T SEE ANYTHING HAPPENING UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF NOVEMBER, AND EVEN THEN, I THINK IT'S ALMOST MORE LIKELY YOU END UP WITH MAYBE A CONCURRENT SPECIAL SESSION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, ONCE THEY COME BACK IN JANUARY.

TED: LAST POINT ON THIS.

WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT THERE WERE AS FEW OR AS MANY -- I DON'T THINK AS MANY -- WATER BILLS AND WATER DISCUSSION?

IT JUST SEEMED LIKE THIS IS A BIG TOPIC THAT WE JUST DID NOT GET A LOT OF -- GRACIOUS, THEY CUT DUCEY'S -- >> I WOULD SAY THERE'S A LOT OF PRESSURE, ESPECIALLY SINCE RURAL BASINS ARE GOING DRY QUITE RAPIDLY.

THOUGH WE HAD A GOOD RAIN YEAR, THERE'S A LOT OF PRESSURE TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING WITH RURAL, WHICH IS ALMOST ENTIRELY UNREGULATED, AND AS WITH THE MORATORIUM, THERE IS PUSH AND PULL WHEN IT COMES TO HOUSING AND WATER IN THE URBAN AREAS.

PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED AND CONSTITUENTS ARE COMING TO LAWMAKERS AND SAYING YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS, SERIOUSLY.

IT'S NOT JUST THE STATE LEGISLATURE, IT'S THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, IT'S A LOCAL ISSUE.

SO NO, I WASN'T PARTICULARLY SURPRISED BY IT.

I KIND OF AGREE WITH WHAT JIM SAID.

I'M NOT SURE IF I SEE A SPECIAL SESSION HAPPENING SOON.

IT WAS THE GOVERNOR'S WATER GUY, PATRICK ADAMS, ADDRESSING THE COUNCIL, HE SAID IF WE GET A DEAL, THE GOVERNOR IS WILLING TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION.

WHEN HE SAID THAT, JUST IN THE FLOW HOW HE WAS TALKING, SOUNDED LIKE HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE RURAL PLAN, NOT THE AG TO URBAN PLAN.

I THINK THEY ARE A LOT CLOSER TO THE RURAL PLAN, THAN THE AG TO URBAN PLAN.

TED: OP-ED FROM FORMER ARIZONA GOVERNOR JAN BREWER, SAID IT'S TIME FOR THE REPUBLICANS TO, QUOTE, REVERSE COURSE FROM ELECTION DENIALS.

TALK TO US ABOUT THIS.

>> YEAH, VERY INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE.

GOVERNOR BREWER, BEFORE SHE WAS GOVERNOR, WAS ARIZONA'S SECRETARY OF STATE, AND THEY OVERSEE ELECTIONS.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LOT SINCE SHE WAS SECRETARY OF STATE IN TERMS OF NOT HOW WE RUN OUR ELECTIONS BUT CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTIONS, AND STANDING FROM MAYBE A LITTLE BIT FROM 2016, BUT YOU KNOW, REALLY FROM 2020, WHEN TRUMP LOST.

ESPECIALLY WHEN HE LOST IN THIS STATE.

AND WE SAW IN 2022, HAD A BUNCH OF ELECTION DENIERS RUNNING FOR THE STATE'S TOP OFFICES, THEY ALL LOST.

THEY WANT TO CALM THE WATERS.

DON'T LET THEM GET TOO ROYALED UP.

LET'S NOT HAVE ANOTHER AUDIT LIKE WE DID WITH THE CYBER NINJAS.

>> 2020 WAS MY PASSWORD.

TED: RELENTLESSLY AGGRESSIVE AND INCREASINGLY DANGEROUS.

THIS IS A STANDARD BEARER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF ARIZONA AND SAYING TO HER FOLKS, KNOCK IT OFF.

>> CERTAINLY SOMEONE WHO USED TO BE THE STANDARD BEARER OF REPUBLICANS IN ARIZONA.

TED: DEFINITELY A NAME.

>> SHE'S CERTAINLY IMPORTANT AND HAS A HISTORY.

I THINK WE'VE SEEN IN THE AGE OF TRUMP, ALL OF THE PEOPLE THESE ARE THE STANDARD BEARERS, THE LUMINARIES OF THE PARTY.

A GREAT MANY OF THEM ARE NO LONGER THAT BECAUSE THE DYNAMIC SHIFTED SO MUCH, AND YOU KNOW, IT HAS REALLY BECOME, THERE'S SUCH A REAL GRAVITATIONAL PULL AROUND WHAT DONALD TRUMP SAYS AND WHAT HE SAYS GOES WITH THE CONSTITUENTS, AND WITH REPUBLICAN VOTERS AND YOU KNOW WE SEE IT IN POLL AFTER POLL THAT A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE ELECTIONS AND THINK THAT THE ELECTIONS HAVE BEEN STOLEN AND, YOU KNOW, THAT DRUM IS CONTINUING TO BE BEATEN.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO STOP, AND I THINK IT'S GOOD FOR PEOPLE LIKE JAN BREWER AND, YOU KNOW, TO STAND UP AND SAY THAT, LOOK, THIS IS TOO MUCH.

WE'VE GONE TOO FAR.

WE HAVE TO HAVE FAITH IN OUR ELECTIONS.

IF WE DON'T, WHAT ARE WE AS A COUNTRY AND A STATE?

HOW DO WE HANDLE THIS?

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE LIKE HER TO DO THAT.

I DON'T KNOW UNLESS THERE'S A CRITICAL MASS OF FOLKS LIKE HER DOING IT, I DON'T KNOW THEY HAVE AN IMPACT.

>> IT'S INTERESTING COMING FROM JAN BREWER, WHO WAS A BIG TRUMP SUPPORTER, WHO HAS BEEN KNOWN TO STIR THE POT A LOT WITH HER RHETORIC, ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE WAS GOVERNOR, BUT THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

TED: YEAH, THEY'VE CHANGED.

LAST QUOTE HERE, HOLD ACCOUNTABLE THOSE WHO SEEK TO SOW DISCORD AND DIVISION FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL GAIN.

THAT'S TOUGH TALK HERE, KNOCK IT OFF.

>> IT'S TOUGH TALK BUT MAYBE A TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.

FOR PEOPLE ON THE BANDWAGON OF THE ELECTIONS ARE NOT SAFE FOR A FORMER GOVERNOR FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T HAVE FRONT OF MIND OPINION PIECE REGARDING 2020.

I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WILL STEM THE TIDE.

FOR HER TO DO IT IS INTERESTING.

I THINK PEOPLE MIGHT WRITE HER OFF AS A RHINO.

>> THAT'S IN THE CONTEXT OF ELECTION DENIALISM.

JAN BREWER IS NOT ONE WHO SHIED AWAY FROM CONTROVERSY AND FROM USING DIVISION AS A WAY TO GAIN IN POLITICS.

EVERYONE REMEMBERS THE PHOTO OF HER WITH HER FINGER IN BARACK OBAMA'S FACE OF THE TARMAC.

THAT WAS THE MOST PROMINENT EXAMPLE OF IT WITHIN HER TENURE.

SHE USED THOSE, SHE PULLED ON THOSE LEVERS A LOT WHEN SHE WAS GOVERNOR.

TED: INTERESTING THING TO READ AND HEAR HER SAY.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.