
7-15-2022: Journalists' Roundtable
Season 2022 Episode 137 | 27mVideo has Closed Captions
The Journalists' Roundtable had the guests talking about a number of topics of the week.
This Friday's Roundtable had the journalists' talking about the top stories of the week including Mark Brnovich's motion to enact a pre-statehood abortion ban on Arizona, the Gosar siblings endorsing their brother's opponent, the Mark Kelly campaign and more.
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Arizona Horizon is a local public television program presented by Arizona PBS

7-15-2022: Journalists' Roundtable
Season 2022 Episode 137 | 27mVideo has Closed Captions
This Friday's Roundtable had the journalists' talking about the top stories of the week including Mark Brnovich's motion to enact a pre-statehood abortion ban on Arizona, the Gosar siblings endorsing their brother's opponent, the Mark Kelly campaign and more.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorship>> Ted: In the next hour on Arizona PBS, on Arizona horizon, it's the journalist's roundtable and we look at reviving a state pre-hood abortion and weather fans who want to make bests on the mon monsoon and a look at the die yocoyote's hockey team.
Good evening and welcome to Arizona horizon.
I'm Ted Simons.
It's Friday and that means it's time for the journalist's roundtable and joining us and Jeremy Duda and Mary Jo Pitzel and Jim small.
Thanks for joining us and Jeremy, the attorney general in Tucson after he made an opinion in God knows how many years old law, abortion law still applies after Roe v. Wade is adios.
>> This would settle what is the legality of abortion in Arizona.
We have this territorial law that passed, I think, in 1864, banning all abortions and we have ally that governor Ducey signed banning abortions after 15 weeks and which ones are controlling after the Supreme Court struck down Roe v. Wade.
Attorney general Brnovich says it'sthere was an injunction onArizona's ban and that's been in effect ever since, I believe, recodified the ban a few years later and mark Brnovich saying that's what the judge should allow, a total ban except those needed to save the mother's live.
>> Ted: Mary Jo, they said this isn't necessarily a done deal here because so many -- the legislatures over the years have done so many things to address abortion and those need to be factored into whatever the final decision will be, as well.
There is chaos out there.
>> Definitely.
That's why most providers are not provides services because providing services.
It's going to take a couple of court rulings to get to a final statement.
>> Ted: As far as governor Ducey, he thinks the law passed this session supercedes everything else?
>> Even though that legislation, nowhere does it say this repeals previous statute.
>> There's a specific provision that says this bill in no way, shape or form, using statute numbers.
>> Ted: ,Jim, it accident doesn't affect this and the governor says it does.
>> Those that were advocating for it says that ban would go into effect if the Supreme Court did not affect Roe v. Wade and a half measure short and that's been their position when this was debated and that's their position now.
And there is language that specifically says, like, the law in the books and the one enjoined for 15 years, you know, that's going remain on the books.
The intention, I think, certainly from the people that drafted it was to have that -- the 15 weeks be a fail safe and revert back to almost total ban on abortions in Arizona if and when the court overturned Roe v. Wade.
>> Ted: We all think 1973 meant 1864 was adios there was a law prior to that and they ruled that it violated implied rights to privacy, which takes back to Roe v. Wade.
But that's what was happening and churning and all of a sudden Roe v. Wade hits and everybody goes, that's done for.
We can forget this and now we have to remember this.
>> There was a separate ruling and a separate lawsuit in Arizona against the state ban on the same, you know, implied right to privacy that the Supreme Court used this to establish Roe v. Wade in the first place, superior says this law is unconstitutional and no, it's not and Roe v. Wade happened and everything kind of got reversed and a lot of moving since then and Brnovich mentioned that they repassed the pre-Roe ban a few years later in 1977 and that's what he's hanging his hat on.
The courts ruled that's pre-constitutional and the legislature repasses that and is it technically a new law?
The judge will have to figure that out.
>> Something we'll see litigation on and that's not at issue in this, we'll see, I think, lawsuits about it, Arizona's constitution has a right to privacy guaranteed in it.
This was, like Jeremy said, in the Roe decision, an implied right to privacy in the constitution and Arizona has very concrete rights in their state's constitution.
In other states, they guarantee is right to abortion is healthcare.
I imagine that will be one of the legal strategies going forward for the reproductive right's move to guarantee, and make sure these laws don't go into effect.
>> Ted: I think this is something Chris mays has been talking about.
>> This is long before the leak draft came out and it does separate her and she's the only Democrat running for AG and does separate her from her republican opponents.
>> Ted: So what's next in all of this?
>> Ruling out of the judge in Pima county.
>> Ted: What kind of time table?
>> I think there are a lot of people waiting.
>> It comes when it comes, huh?
>> I think that's what it is.
We have to wait and see when the judge takes it up and a lot of groups that will try tointervene and not follow what the AG is saying.
>> We know this will go -- whoever loses will appeal to the court of appeals and to the Arizona Supreme Court.
>> Ted: Dominoes will start falling and you have to tip it over first and waiting for the judge to do that.
>> What happens on September 24th, when the legislation that was passed this year has supports of law, will anybody act on that one if this case is rattling around, in which case it still will be.
>> Ted: A law that gives all legal rights to an unborn child and a court saying it's unconstitutionally vague.
What's going on here?
>> That ruling came down earlier this week and puts that on hold.
Attorney general Brnovich argued you cannot use that personhood verbiage to classify, those, as child abuse some people suggested a woman received an abortion and that she would be guilty of committing child abuse which brings on another set of penalties.
So that is off the table, at least for now on hold.
>> Ted: This is, again, that could change once we find out what the abortion laws are.
>> It could be a moot point because the antiabortion movement is pushing and chipping away at Roe and a work-around for Roe and if a fetus has constitutional rights, how can you force an abortion and now that it's off the books, the pre-statement ban going back on the books, it may be a moot point in that respect.
>> In that respect, yes, but like Mary Jo referenced, the judge brought these up during the hearing, you say it has the constitutional rights of a person.
There's a lot of constitutional rights and laws that apply, and child abuse is one and all different things that apply to people.
Does that mean a pregnant woman who is on, say, the supplemental nutrition and they can suddenly -- that because they're pregnant, they're able to claim the unborn child and the fetus as an dependent?
A lot of things to consider if you grant personhood to a fetus that, you know, implicate and the Dominoes fall in a lot of state statues because statues are dealing with the people who have the rights of people.
>> That reminds me of the case and not funny, but the pregnant woman stopped in an him HOV lane in Dallas because she was driving alone and heck, no, I'm pregnant and my fetus is a person and she'll have to go to fight the three-person ticket.
>> That was part of the judge's rationale and unconstitutional because it's unclear.
>> Ted: How could it be vague?
>> Other laws permitting that and other things and referencing a person and as Jim mentioned based how an individual, and so unclear how this would apply to so many other statutes.
>> Ted: Can you clarify and so vague.
>> Yeah, I guess they could clarify and say, well, it counts in regards to this one particular statute and that kind of, I think, gived away the game on the whole thing, right?
That the whole idea behind this was to stop abortions.
And that was the sole intention and I think was never intended to actually go into effect in a way.
It was meant to be a marker, to put a marker down to use the law to make a political statement and statement of belief and not something actually, I don't think west crafted in terms of well crafted and in in terms of governance.
>> Ted: Just census alone.
Let's move on.
>> They could have given us an extra district.
[ Laughter ] >> Ted: Gosar siblings come out against brother, but this time, they've endorsed a primary opponent and considering these gosar siblings are Democrats, that's new.
>> Another story about siblings endorsing him and to what effect,?
Probably not much.
No matter what controversies surround him and no shortage and some extra ones this year because of January 6th and stop the steal.
Always prevails and redistricting and the nine districts we got because we don't have -- [ Laughter ] >> -- or he moved into a district overwhelming for overwhelming or for the second time.
He's under so little threat to lose here.
No matter who his siblings oppose or endorse.
>> It makes a statement, toe, thatthough,that people closest to him and I don't think that's the case and this is what we think and voters should pause and think about that.
>> Ted: He's, quote, clearly unhinged, unfit for office and does not represent reality-based Arizonans.
That's strong.
>> That's strong.
That's a couple of cycles ago and made to bones about the fact they do not think he's fit for office and that they disagree with a lot of his positions, whether policy position or political, rhetorical positions and, you know, we're talking about a guy who has, you know, been linked arm in arm with a lot of neo-Nazis and white nationalists and been, you know, the bleeding avenue edge of the conspiracy theories and you know, this doesn't represent what we happen in our elected officials.
>> Ted: Could there be back-firing as as far as republicans saying you're calling him this and we'll double down on Paul gosar?
>> If that's the position they're taking, they've been taking all along.
If anything has changed with Paul gos absolutear, it's the January 6th, stop the steal for trump.
That's in addition to the pane many controversies and the many things he's said and done.
Will that make a difference?
>> Ted: There are other candidates here and people with Adam Morgan who they put their lot behind.
>> For all of the reasons.
>> With so many opponents and if anyone had a shot in a primary, you want any situation like that and one strong candidate to run against an incumbent and three candidates, plus a write-in.
>> Ted: Governor Ducey paid an endorsement for Secretary of State and this is once again a nontrump supporter, beau lane, and any surprise heerss?
>> Surprised he made an endorsement but if the context of his endorsement a week ago of Karrin Taylor-robson, he's staking out that this is the same side of the ticket that you should vote for.
And,you know, both businessmen and know someone from the business world.
It's a little late and early ballots have gone out and many have come back in.
In a crowded primary with four candidates, lane is just one of four, you foe, you're know, you're going to need a chunk of votes to overtake mark Finch.
>> Ted: He said he's a businessman, not a politician and an election denier.
This endorsement the week before Donald Trump would supposed to appear in Prescott valley and was that any reason for the timing?
>> I think it had to do with early ballots it came late, the endorsement of robson before the voting period and this came a week later after, you know, people have had a chance to have their ballots for awhile and a number of the ballots cast.
And you think it does doof show the separation that Doug Ducey on his way out is showing and in a way he didn't for the last four years.
ItYou can see all the way back to when he silenced the president's phone call as he was signing off on the election.
At that point, no doubt he was pursuing an engrado in the trump world and now you have, Ducey trying to hold the establishment of the G.O.P together and trying to buttress that wing going up against the pro trump world.
I will be interesting to endorse anyone in the AG's race along with a critical role.
>> Ted: As far as the secretary of state's race, he says, beau lane, he's not going after the next job.
Not be bought and bullied, a direct reference to anyone pro-trump.
>> If you look ahead, governor AG and Secretary of State, they stine off on this and it has to be done and there was a lot of pressure last night and if time and if a Democrat candidate wins, there's a lot of pressure next time to do the same thing.
Legally, I don't think they have that option and if mark Finchham or lake gets elected and the Democrat wins in 2024, it's likely we will see one or more of them refuse to sign off on that.
Even this year, we're signing Finchham and lake saying if they lose, they're going to blame fictional fraud.
>> Ted: 100% hand count.
The whole point is making that's what he wants and going after that contingent of voters.
>> He doesn't want any machines in elections and he and Kari lake have a lawsuit in court for a preliminary injunction and if they get it, it will apply for the general and getting their hearing next week.
>> Ted: Wow!
>> So you wouldn't have counting machines and you wouldn't have the little machine that you feed your ballot into if you go vote at the polls.
>> Ted: I like that little machine.
It's fun.
>> It's fun, but they believe that it can be manipulated and corruptive.
>> You know who's excited to watch these republicans fighting over this election stuff is the Democrats because it gives them the ammunition they need in the general election should Kari lake win or Finchham win and these are pushing A, illegal, and B, nuts.
And, you know, to be able to make that point, I think, that's why I'm seeing the democratic party putting out press releases with robson surging in the roles and theyin this thepolls and she has staked out a lot of positions that are way outoutside of the mainstream in Arizona.
They've gone from secretly cheering to actively routing for these outcomes.
>> I remember them doing similar things with them with Donald Trump six years ago and you can see how this turned out.
>> Ted: In this proxy war, should carries more weight, Ducey or trump?
>> No question, trump.
People stoatPeople vote because Donald Trump endorsed them.
They'll vote for a candidate for the candidate because they're rational and moderate and it's hard to say, but that's a subjective term and not pursuing these wild, crazy conspiracy tear requires and that does send a signal to voters that that person is that candidate, whether it's beau lane or robson.
I don't think they'll specifically vote because Ducey said to vote.
>> Ted: And tomorrow has been postponed.
>> His first wife, Ivana trump died yesterday and the former president will be going to funeral services.
>> Ted: Went this happens, next Friday, and week from today.
>> Prescott valley, same line-up.
>> Ted: Does this work -- is this going to rile up -- I mean, he comes out here and what does this do?
The republican party is pretty well split right now.
>> It gathers the faithful.
You won't have many skeptical voters showing up.
It's good for Donald Trump.
>> Ted: It's important for lake and masters to get a photo opportunity with Donald Trump.
>> I think it is, and I think it will be up to the candidates to figure out, especially, you know, I think the down-ticket races like Secretary of State, AG's race where, essentially, most voters would be hard-pressed to pick them out and they don't know who they are and not a lot of money in any of the races and not doing voter outreach.
And so, I think it's up to the campaigns, then, if they're able to take the photos and take that to use that into persuade voters and turn that into mailers and video ads.
>> It's interesting since it's on, what, the 22nd, now that it's postponed, how many early votes will have been in and this in a party that their leadership doesn't want early voting and the president has urged everybody to cast the early ballots and such confusing messages.
>> The leadership doesn't want early volting voting that they're suing to overturn it and cast early and turn them in because, you know, again, this is political theater.
None of this is real and republicans support early voting, but they have to keep up the line that they don't tell Donald Trump changes his tune and OK to call for early voting.
>> One thing that might help for the republicans, a lot of republicans in past years gotten their ballots in the mail will walk those in on election day.
We saw this in 2020.
That's why republicans gain so many votes after election day when historically it's always Democrats because instead of mailing them in, Donald Trump falsely told them, mail-in associating is suspicious, don't put your ballot in the mail and they walked it in.
Those ballots get counted last and a lot more folks than normal, at least on the republican side who could be persuaded and even though they got it in the mail and walk it in because they shouldn't trust the mail.
That's what I heard from folks tracking and we're seeing that happen.
>> Ted: Interesting.
Before we go, today the Mark Kelly campaign kicked off and republicans for Kelly and independents for Kelly, about 50 G.O.Pes and citing Kelly's bipartisanship.
How much of a difference does this make in a race that will eventually pit Kelly against who knows?
>> Well, it sends a a signal Kelly has appeal beyond his party and paints him somebody works across the aisle and that's appealing to independents and probably to some moderate republicans, especially female republicans.
So creat, yeah, there's a benefit.
>> Ted: A lot of former mayors and current and former lawmakers and Paul Charlton and, again, obviously, we've got to figure out who the republican opponent will be in the general, but could this affect the general election in that the hard right republicans are saying these are Rinos and get our ballots in?
>> Probably not.
I don't think the fact that Mark Kelly is striking out a moderate path.
Since he's starting running for the first time, this has been his position is that he's a centrist and independent streak and he's going to do that and that's where a lot of municipal leaders operate, is thatmiddle bandwidth, but it sets the tone and sets the contrast of who you see come out that republican primary because they're tripping to get to the far right as possible.
Whether it's Blake masters or mark Brnovich or any of the other folks in the field, they've all really gone hard right.
I don't think there's any idea that any will come back to the center either.
We saw what happened in Ohio what's,what's happening right now and that's the same playbook where a Democrat that's left the center with a Democrat very far to the right and outside of even traditionally being the republican mainstream.
>> Ted: 30 seconds left and on the republican side, it's like, see, there are Rinos among us and we have to pick A, B or C. >> 97% or whatever.
>> In the G.O.P primary and I guess I'll just throw that one away.
[ Laughter ] >> Ted: Thank you, panel, and good to have you here and that's it for now.
I'm Ted Simons and thank you for joining us and you have a great weekend!
Coming up in the next half hour on Arizona PBS, Cronkite news, postal carriers asking for new vehicles to brave the heat and break it down, a look at the business side of the Arizona coyote's hockey team.
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