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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING A MARICOPA COUNTY SUPERVISOR CALLING FOR THE COUNTY RECORDER TO BE INVESTIGATED FOR PUBLIC CORRUPTION.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

AND JOINING US TONIGHT, JIM SMALL OF THE "ARIZONA MIRROR."

CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF KJZZ RADIO, AND LAURIE ROBERTS OF "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND AZCENTRAL.COM.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

JIM, LET'S START WITH YOU, AND HOLY SMOKES, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, GOING ON WITH MARICOPA COUNTY GOVERNMENT HERE?

>> TO BACK THINGS UP FOR MOST OF THE YEAR, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS BEEN NEGOTIATING AND OR FIGHTING AND SUING OR SUED BY THE COUNTY RECORDER JUSTIN HEAP OVER ESSENTIALLY WHO CONTROLS EVERY ASPECT OF ELECTIONS IN THE COUNTY.

BACK LAST FALL WHEN IT LOOKED LIKE HEAP WAS GOING TO WIN AND THE PREVIOUS BOARD OF SUPERVISORS NOT ENAMORED WITH THAT, THEY MADE CHANGES TO THE AGREEMENT AND BOARDS OF SUPERVISORS ARE IN CHARGE OF ELECTIONS IN MOST COUNTIES, THEY DELEGATE THAT AUTHORITY TO THE COUNTY RECORDER.

MARICOPA COUNTY IS NO DIFFERENT.

AND THINGS SENT TO THE RECORDER, OTHER THINGS BY THE BOARD.

FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO, THE BOARD PULLED IT BACK AND TOOK CONTROL OF DAY OF VOTING IN PARTICULAR, AND THIS WAS KIND OF THE, THEY RENEWED THAT AGREEMENT AND MADE CHANGES TO PULL THINGS AWAY FROM JUSTIN HEAP ANTICIPATING HE WOULD WIN.

HE DID WIN, AND TRIED TO RENEGOTIATE THAT DEAL.

WE SHOULD HAVE A NEW DEAL AND FIGHTING ABOUT THAT EVER SINCE.

TED: TALK ABOUT THE RENEGOTIATION, CAMRYN.

THIS IS WHERE APPARENTLY THE COUNTY RECORDER TRIED TO GET A COUPLE OF SUPERVISORS TO GO AROUND THE CHAIR AND ALL SORTS OF E-MAIL, GOT ALL THE STUFF OUT HERE, WHAT ARE WE GETTING OUT HERE?

WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> I THINK NEGOTIATION IS A VERY GENTLE TERM FOR THE EXCHANGES WE'VE SEEN, ESPECIALLY IN THE NEWLY UNCOVERED COMMUNICATIONS THAT JEN GOT.

HEAP IS UPSET WITH THE SUPERVISORS AND THERE IS POLITICAL THEORY WHY THEY'RE TRYING TO KEEP HIM OUT, AND SEEMS TO THINK IT'S HIS RIGHT AND JOB TO BE IN CHARGE OF MORE THAN HE CURRENTLY IS, AND BELIEVES IT IS TARGETED AT HIM.

YES, RIGHT BEFORE HE BECAME THE COUNTY RECORDER, THE FORMER COUNTY RECORDER WHO IS NOT A FAN OF HIM, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS CHANGED SOME THINGS.

BUT IN THIS COMMUNICATION, HE'S RAILING AGAINST THE SUPERVISORS AND SAYING YOU HAVE TO GO AGAINST THE CHAIR AND GIVE ME MY POWER.

TED: AND SAID SO, APPARENTLY THROUGH THE E-MAILS, TELLING A COUPLE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, HEY, WE CAN GO AROUND THE CHAIR.

>> WE CAN GO AROUND THE CHAIR AND WENT OUT TO A GROUP OF REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT PRECINCT COMMITTEEMEN AND INTIMATED HE HAD THE VOTES TO OUST THE CHAIRMAN, TOM GALVAN.

I DON'T THINK HE HAS THE VOTES THERE, AND BASED ON MY READ OF THINGS, I DON'T THINK HE HAS THE VOTES AS HE CLAIMED OF THE LONE DEMOCRAT ON THE BOARD, STEVE GALLARDO, TO RENEGOTIATE THE DEAL AND BASICALLY GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS, WHICH IS MORE POWER.

FIND IT DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE THAT THE LONE DEMOCRAT ON THE BOARD WOULD BE WORKING SECRETLY WITH THE MAGA REPRESENTATIVE WHO IS OUR MARICOPA COUNTY RECORDER NOW, TO GIVE MORE POWER TO THAT END OF THE.

I'M SO STEVE GALLARDO IS VERY UPSET, AND WHEN THE E-MAILS CAME OUT WHICH HE BASICALLY SAID I'VE GOT HIM ON BOARD WITH SOME -- I DID A LOT OF THINGS AND HE'S WITH US.

IF WE CAN JUST -- THE TWO OF YOU, THE MORE CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD WILL GO ALONG WITH THIS, WE CAN GET THIS DEAL DONE.

AND GALLARDO WAS FURIOUS.

HE'S CALLED FOR AN INVESTIGATION, SAYING I DIDN'T DO THIS, AND BASICALLY, IN WORDS THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'LL EVER HEAR AGAIN, I WANT JUSTIN HEAP TO KEEP MY NAME OUT OF HIS LYING MOUTH.

TED: GOT KIND OF TENSE THERE, JIM, BUT AGAIN, HEAP SAID HE USED BACKCHANNELLING AND ARM-TWISTING TO GET GALLARDO TO GO WITH LESKO AND STEWART, REPUBLICANS, TO GIVE JUSTIN HEAP MORE -- REALLY?

WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> HE WAS VERY CLEAR, HE WAS TRYING TO PERSUADE DEBBIE LESKO AND MARK STEWART, HE VIEWED AS NATURAL ALLIES.

IF YOU LOOK AT BOARD AND PICK PEOPLE WHO ARE ALLIES WITH JUSTIN HEAP, THAT'S WHO YOU WOULD SETTLE ON AS THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKELY BE IN HIS CORNER AND HE CLEARLY FELT THEY WEREN'T IN HIS CORNER OR WEREN'T FORCEFULLY ADVOCATING ENOUGH FOR HIS POSITION FOR WHAT HE WANTED.

YOU COULD SEE THROUGH THE TEXT MESSAGES THAT HE WAS TRYING TO CAJOLE AND PERSUADE THEM AND B.S.

THEM A LITTLE BIT, IT SEEMED, INTO COMING TO HIS SIDE.

LOOK, WE'VE GOT THE DEMOCRAT ON BOARD, AND IF I CAN GET THESE TWO ON BOARD, WE'LL FIGURE OUT THE THIRD VOTE LATER.

WE NEED THREE OUT OF THE FIVE.

IT'S HARD TO FATHOM.

LIKE LAURIE SAID, STEVE GALLARDO WOULD WORK BEHIND THE SCENES WITH JUSTIN HEAP TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING LIKE THIS, IT IS STRANGE CREDULITY TO PUT IT POLITELY.

>> THE IRONY IS THIS IS A MAN WHO RAN ON A PLATFORM OF RESTORING INTEGRITY AND -- WHAT ELSE?

TRANSPARENCY AND HONESTY TO THE OFFICE.

NOW HIS HONESTY IS CALLED INTO QUESTION.

NOT BEING TRANSPARENT, HE'S IN HIS BUNKER AND NOT TALKING TO ANYBODY.

HE WON'T RELEASE HIS OWN E-MAILS DESPITE HAVING GOTTEN PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST, I THINK HE'S HURTING HIS CREDIBILITY.

THINKS THERE'S A CONSPIRACY.

>> HURTING CREDIBILITY AND CHANCES OF WHAT HE'S ASKING FOR, THE SITUATION GETS WORSE AND WORSE, IF IF THERE'S A SHOT OF WORKING WITH HIM IN THE RELATIONSHIP, THAT'S OUT WINDOW.

I IMAGINE HE SAID KEEP MY NAME OUT OF YOUR LYING MOUTH AND HAS SINCE CALLED FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO HEAP BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

TED: BECAUSE HE SAYS, IT LOOKS LIKE I'M UP TO NO GOOD, I'M DOING FUNNY BUSINESS.

>> YEAH, AND I THINK YOU COULD CERTAINLY READ HEAP'S MESSAGES TO THE OTHER REPUBLICAN SUPERVISORS AS INTIMATING THAT HE HAD BOUGHT OFF GALLARDO IN SOME FASHION, THROUGH SOME WAY.

HE HINTED AT THINGS LIKE THAT.

THAT SEEMED TO OUTRAGE GALLARDO THE MOST, AND ESSENTIALLY ALMOST IN HIS WORDS THE WAY HE PRESENTED, ACCUSED OF TAKING A BRIBE TO DO THIS VOTE, WHICH HE FORCEFULLY DENIED, AND TURNED AROUND AND CALLED FOR INVESTIGATION INTO JUSTIN HEAP.

TED: DOES JUSTIN HEAP HAVE A POINT, IN THE SENSE THAT RECORDERS HAD X, Y AND Z RESPONSIBILITIES, THE MINUTE HE COMES DOWN THE HIGHWAY, TAKING X AND SHAVING OFF A LITTLE Y.

>> HONESTLY YES, IT'S HIS LEGAL RIGHT TO HAVE THE ROLE AND AS STEPHEN RICHER DID, THERE'S A MISCOMMUNICATION, IN STATE LAW, A LOT OF THE POWER IS WITH THE COUNTY SUPERVISORS AND WITHIN THEIR DELEGATION, AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF STUFF TO OPERATE.

THEM PULLING BACK SEEMS TARGETED AT HIM, BUT DOES HE HAVE THE RIGHT TO IT?

I DON'T THINK SO.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REPUBLICANS FIGHTING REPUBLICANS ONCE AGAIN, AND BOTH SIDES ARE IN COURT, SO WE'RE PAYING FOR REPUBLICANS TO SUE REPUBLICANS SO THEY CAN GET A JUDGE TO DECIDE WHO GETS TO DO WHAT?

SEEMS CLEAR THAT THE POWER ULTIMATELY LIES WITH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.

TED: I THINK CAMRYN IS RIGHT, THIS WAS TARGETED AT HEAP.

WE'RE IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR, AND ABLE TO LANDSCAPE, THIS GUY IS GOING TO WIN, WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE HIM ALL THE SAME POWER BECAUSE HE'S AN ELECTION DENIER, HE ADVOCATED FOR A LOT OF THINGS THAT THE BOARD SPENT YEARS FIGHTING AGAINST, BUT IN THE SAME TOKEN THAT WAS AIMED AT HIM, IN 2018, 2019, WHEN THEY PULLED POWER AWAY FROM THE DEMOCRAT, WHEN ADRIAN FONTES WAS COUNTY RECORDER, THAT IS WHY THE COUNTY HAS ELECTORS BECAUSE THEY RIPPED AWAY ELECTION CONTROL FROM THE OFFICE BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED BOARD DIDN'T LIKE FONTES, THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY HE WAS MANAGING THE OFFICE, AND WANTED TO TAKE THE POWER BACK AND REALLY HAVE MORE OF A HAND AT LEAST IN DAY OF ELECTIONS.

TED: WE GOT A LAWSUIT, A COUNTERSUIT, A BUNCH OF PEOPLE, WITH E-MAILS FLYING AROUND.

>> MAYBE AN INVESTIGATION.

TED: MAYBE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS GOING TO TAKE A LOOK, WHAT GALLARDO WANTS.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR GOVERNMENT AT THE COUNTY LEVEL?

>> WELL, IT MEANS THE GOVERNMENT HAS COME TO A SCREECHING HALT.

THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING.

THEY CAN'T AGREE TO ANYTHING, AND THIS IS, AS WE HAVE AN ELECTION APPROACHING NEXT YEAR, A VERY IMPORTANT ELECTION, ONE WOULD SAY, WHERE IT WOULD BEHOOVE THE TWO SIDES TO WORK TOGETHER, BUT HEAP IS ACTING -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY JUVENILE, BUT I'LL SAY IT -- HE'S ACTING LIKE A TODDLER HAVING A TANTRUM.

THIS IS NOT THE WAY YOU GET ALONG AND NEGOTIATE WITH PEOPLE, BUT IF YOUR JOB IS ONE THAT YOU VIEW AS PERFORMATIVE TO SAY THERE'S OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE COUNTY, FELLOW REPUBLICANS, THIS IS MOSTLY A NEW BOARD AND THE IMPLICATION IS WE DON'T TRUST YOU.

WE, THE MAGA PEOPLE, DON'T TRUST YOU, THE BOARD, TO RUN ELECTIONS EFFECTIVELY.

WHERE IS THIS GOING TO END?

HOW MANY MORE CYCLES IS THIS GOING TO GO ON?

TED: WHAT DO YOU THINK, CAMRYN?

HOW LONG DOES IT GO ON?

>> MAKES ME NERVOUS FOR THE NEXT ELECTION, THERE IS SUCH A LACK OF TRUST.

ANY TINY THING THAT GOES WRONG, IT IS BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION BY EITHER SIDE NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF SOMETHING HAPPENING THROUGH THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

THAT WAS A PART OF THE BUDGET TALKS FROM THE FREEDOM CAUCUS, HEAP'S ALLIES, TO GIVE HIM MORE POWER AND SQUEEZE THAT INTO THE BUDGET PROCESS WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A DIVIDED GOVERNMENT.

HYPOTHETICALLY IN A FUTURE WHERE, KATIE HOBBS IS GONE, AND THE FREEDOM CAUCUS HAS MORE CONTROL, MAYBE THEY WANT TO CHANGE THE LAWS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER THAT SETS EVERYTHING IN THE HANDS OF THE COUNTY SUPERVISORS.

TED: STATE ONCE AGAIN, MOVING IN ON MUNICIPALITIES AS THEY SEEM TO LOVE TO DO.

ALL RIGHT, JIM.

THE NO LABELS PARTY IS RECRUITING FOR 2026.

LAST I HEARD, THE NO LABELS PARTY DIDN'T WANT ANYONE ON THE NO LABELS PARTY.

>> I KNOW, RIGHT?

2024, THE NO LABELS PARTY GOT ORGANIZED IN ARIZONA, AND WITH THE EXPRESS INTENT OF ONLY RUNNING FOR POTENTIAL CANDIDATES.

THERE WAS A BIG COURT BATTLE WHETHER ANYONE WHO REGISTERED AS A NO LABELS BANNER COULD RUN UNDER THE NO LABELS BANNER FOR ANY OTHER OFFICES.

PARTIES SAID NO, COURT SAID YES, YOU CAN'T STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING.

IN THE WEEK SINCE THE COURT RULING, THE NO LABELS PARTY IS SEEKING TO REINVENT ITSELF IN A WAY, AND POSITION ITSELF AS SOMETHING THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THE TWO MAINSTREAM PARTIES, AND I THINK IT'S A INTERESTING MOVE, THAT BASICALLY IN ARIZONA LAW, IF YOU'RE AN INDEPENDENT, IN ORDER TO GET ON THE BALLOT, HAVE YOU INCREDIBLY HIGH HURTLES.

THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WROTE THE LAWS TO MAKE SURE THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS GET ON THE BALLOT AND ANYONE ELSE HAS A HARD TIME OF DOING IT, AND SO INDEPENDENTS HAVE TO GATHER SOMETHING LIKE FIVE OR TEN TIMES THE SIGNATURES TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

THERE'S A PROCESS TO GO THROUGH.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, WHICH IS WHY YOU NEVER SEE INDEPENDENT CANDIDATES ON THE BALLOT.

VERY RARELY.

IF YOU ARE AN INDEPENDENT AND DON'T WANT TO RUN AS REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, COME TO US AND RUN.

ESSENTIALLY THEY WON'T HAVE A PARTY PLATFORM, NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING EXCEPT SERVE AS A VEHICLE TO LET PEOPLE ON THE BALLOT WITH MUCH LOWER SIGNATURE THRESHOLD AND OPEN UP THE DOORS, OPEN UP THE DOORS WIDE FOR THIRD PARTY AND INDEPENDENT CANDIDATES.

TED: A VERY DIFFERENT TECHNIQUE, AND PAUL JOHNSON IS NOW THE ARIZONA CHAIR OF THE NO LABELS PARTY.

>> RIGHT.

FRESH OFF OF WORKING ON THE OPEN PRIMARY PROPOSITION, WHICH, OF COURSE, FAILED.

THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO GET A MORE CENTRIST GOVERNMENT OR GIVE A MORE CENTRIST GOVERNMENT A CHANCE TO GET BEFORE VOTERS SO THEY CAN DECIDE IF THIS IS SOMETHING THEY WANT.

NOT ALL INDEPENDENTS ARE CENTRISTS, THERE'S DIFFERENT REASONS WHY PEOPLE BECOME INDEPENDENTS, BUT I THINK THAT IS THEIR GOAL IS TO GIVE MODERATE VOICES AN EQUAL SHOT TO THOSE AT THE EXTREME LIMITS OF THEIR PARTIES.

TED: 40,000 REGISTERED VOTERS WITH THE NO LABELS PARTY?

>> YEAH, NOT A LOT.

TED: NOT A LOT BUT IT'S SOMETHING.

>> LAURIE BRINGS UP THE IMPORTANT POINT HERE.

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO WITH THE MAKE ELECTIONS FAIR INITIATIVE IN OUR LAST ELECTIONS, FOLKS WERE SAYING A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS IN POLITICS STEM FROM OUR DEEPLY DIVIDED TWO-PARTY SYSTEM, AND THE FACT THAT AS JIM MENTIONED, NEAR IMPOSSIBLE FOR THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATES TO GET ELECTED INTO OFFICES AND THAT'S A PROBLEM IN THEIR VIEW BECAUSE PARTISAN PRIMARIES ATTRACTS THE MOST INTENSE POLITICAL FOLKS OF THE MOST EXTREME ENDS OF THE PARTIES, SO YOU END UP WITH GENERAL ELECTION CANDIDATES WHO THE CENTER DOESN'T WANT BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TWO OPTIONS WAY OVER HERE AND WAY OVER THERE AND WANT TO PREVENT AN OPTION FOR FOLKS IN THE GENERAL ELECTION THAT IS SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE.

TED: BASICALLY THE NO LABELS PARTY IS LOOKING FOR A LABEL.

WILL ENOUGH PEOPLE COME ON OVER.

COULD THEY MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> CERTAINLY POSSIBLE THEY COULD.

I THINK LOWERING THE BAR AND OPENING THE GATE REALLY WIDE FOR THIRD PARTY FOR INDEPENDENT FOR MORE CENTRIST, MORE MODERATE CANDIDATES TO GET NOT JUST ON THE BALLOT BUT THE GENERAL ELECTION.

WE SEE THAT A LOT, WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE MODERATE DEMOCRATS OR MODERATE REPUBLICANS WHO GET SQUEEZED OUT IN THE PRIMARY WHERE CAMRYN SAID, YOU HAVE THE MOST POLITICALLY ACTIVE AND POLITICALLY IDEOLOGICAL VOTERS IN THE PRIMARY, A LOT OF TIMES THE CENTRIST CANDIDATES DON'T MAKE IT THROUGH THE PRIMARY.

THIS WOULD ALLOW THEM TO GET ONTO THE GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT.

IF YOU ARE IN A BATTLEGROUND LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT AND HAVE A MODERATE VOICE IN THE MIDDLE AND PEOPLE ON THE FAR RIGHT AND LEFT.

TWO THINGS HAPPEN.

YOU MIGHT PULL THE RIGHT AND LEFT IN TOWARDS THE CENTER A LITTLE BIT, BUT YOU ALSO REALLY OPEN A DOOR FOR A SPOILER, MAY NOT BE A NO LABELS CANDIDATE WINS BUT MAY BE ABLE TO PULL FROM ENOUGH OF ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER THAT YOU COULD SEE UPSET HAPPENING.

>> I COULD SEE THE UPSET?

2026 BEING TO THE BENEFIT OF REPUBLICANS BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF DISAFFECTED MODERATES FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CERTAINLY, BUT PROBABLY A WHOLE LOT MORE ON THE OTHER SIDE, AND DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO GET THOSE MODERATES TO COME THEIR WAY.

FOR EXAMPLE, IN A GOVERNOR'S RACE, KATIE HOBBS WILL CERTAINLY TRY TO APPEAL TO CENTRIST REPUBLICANS TO COME HER WAY.

IF THERE'S A THIRD OPTION IN THE MIDDLE, THOSE CENTRISTS ARE MORE LIKELY TO GO TO THAT PERSON.

IT COULD REALLY HURT DEMOCRATS.

>> IF YOU'RE A WILD-EYED BOMB THROWER AND FROM THE WAY LEFT, WAY RIGHT, AND YOU DECIDE I'M GOING TO BE A NO LABELS PARTY CANDIDATE, NINTH CIRCUIT SAYS HAVE AT IT.

>> YEAH.

TED: THAT DOESN'T SOUND VERY MODERATE, CAMRYN.

>> THE NO LABELS IS A BIG DREAM AND BIG SCHEME, I'M EXCITED THEY'RE EXCITED BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I BELIEVE IN IT BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE HAVE THE SYSTEM SET UP AND I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SEE A NO LABELS CANDIDATE BECOMING OUR NEXT GOVERNOR OR SOMETHING, AND IT'S PARTLY BECAUSE OF WHAT IS THE PLATFORM?

IF THIS IS EVERYONE ELSE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

ARE YOU GOING TO RAISE MY TAXES OR LOWER MY TAXES?

DO YOU SUPPORT CLIMATE CHANGE RESTRICTIONS?

DO YOU NOT SUPPORT THEM?

WHO AM I VOTING FOR?

WHO ARE YOU?

TED: YOU COULD SAY I'M SO SICK OF REPUBLICANS, SO SICK OF DEMOCRATS, YOU SEEM REASONABLE, I COULD GET ON BOARD WITH YOU, YOU'RE MY PERSON.

>> CERTAINLY POSSIBLE, BUT I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO FACE THE SAME CHALLENGE AND MAYBE DIFFERENT CHALLENGES AND BIGGER HURTLES IN GETTING FUNDING AND FINANCES TO MOUNT THE CAMPAIGNS.

THAT WILL BE DIFFICULT.

CLEAN ELECTIONS WILL BE AN OPTION IN SOME CASES BUT THEY HAVE TO RAISE MONEY TO COMMUNICATE TO GET THE MESSAGE AND WHATEVER INDIVIDUAL PLATFORM IS OUT TO VOTERS.

TED: YEAH, YEAH, LAURIE, WE HAD SECRETARY OF STATE ADRIAN FONTES IS LAST NIGHT TALKING ABOUT THIS.

WE WANT TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE CYBERSECURITY BREACH, A BREACH OF THE SITE AND FIND OUT THE AYATOLLAH IS RUNNING FOR EVERY OFFICE IN ARIZONA?

[LAUGHTER] >> YEAH, THE HACKERS BELIEVED TO BE FROM IRAN, HACKED THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S ELECTION WEBSITE IN LATE JUNE AFTER THE U.S.

BOMBED THOSE IRANIAN NUCLEAR SITES AND PUT A MESSAGE ON THERE AND PICTURES IN RED AND BLACK OF THE AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI WHO PRESIDED DURING THE IRAN HOSTAGE CRISIS IN THE 70s.

TED: YEAH.

>> AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THEY GOT ONLY INTO THE CANDIDATE PORTAL AND PERHAPS ONE OTHER PORTAL, THE SITE THAT VOTERS WOULD SEE ON ELECTION NIGHT.

THE RESULTS SITE.

ADRIAN FONTES PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE ABOUT IT A WEEK LATER, BEGAN MEETING WITH LEGISLATORS TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN DO, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN TURNING POINT USA HEARD ABOUT IT, TYLER BOWYER PUT OUT SOMETHING FROM AN INSIDE SOURCE THERE WAS A LEAK.

THAT'S TWO WEEKS AFTER THE PRESS RELEASE CAME OUT.

NATURALLY WHAT HAPPENED IS A BIG POLITICIZATION OF THIS THING, THIS IS HORRIBLE, ADRIAN FONTES'S FAULT.

WHEN, IN FACT, WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND NEEDED TO HAPPEN FOR QUITE SOME TIME IS MONEY PUT FORTH TO SHORE UP THE SYSTEM, A CYBER DEFENSE SYSTEM FOR THIS THING.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS BEEN UNWILLING TO DO THAT, AND YOU ARE HEARING THE FAR RIGHT PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT ADRIAN FONTES.

WHAT'S HE SUPPOSE TO DO?

HAVE THE CYBER FAIRY SEAL OFF THE PORTAL?

TED: FONTES ON THE SHOW NUMEROUS TIMES, SAYING $10 MILLION IS NEEDED BECAUSE THESE THINGS WERE BREACHED, THE THINGS THAT WERE BREACHED, THEY'RE OLD, THEY DON'T EVEN MAKE REPLACEMENT PARTS FOR THESE THINGS ANYMORE.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.

TO LAURIE'S POINT, WHO WAS IT, I DON'T WANT TO CHANCE THE NAME HERE.

DIDN'T SOMEONE SAY IT WAS A COVER-UP, FONTES WAS GOING -- >> I THINK HOFFMAN.

>> I COULD HAVE GUESSED WITHOUT REMEMBERING.

I THINK IT WAS HOFFMAN.

>> MASSIVE COVER-UP.

TED: I'M SORRY, MASSIVE COVER-UP.

>> IT'S A REALLY INTERESTING CASE FOR A LOT OF REASONS, NOT JUST ANOTHER HACKER.

INITIALLY THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE SAID THIS IS A FOREIGN ATTACK.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT?

THE HACKER LEFT A MESSAGE SAYING THIS IS IRAN, WE'RE ATTACKING YOU BECAUSE WE HATE YOU.

THAT'S A GOOD REASON TO ASSUME THAT, THEN, WHAT ELSE IS INTERESTING IS THE POLITICS OF THIS AND THE FACT THAT IT WASN'T JUST THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE THAT WAS ATTACKED, OTHER ARIZONA AGENCIES, TOO.

THAT ATTACK ON THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE LASTED ABOUT A WEEK, THEY SAID, AND POTENTIALLY OTHER STATES ARE AFFECTED AND OTHER SECRETARIES OF STATE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO WE DON'T KNOW HOW WIDE RANGING THIS IS, AND BEGS THE QUESTION HOW WE PREVENT THIS IN THE FUTURE.

SOME OF THE SYSTEMS GO BACK TEN, SOMETIMES 20, 20+ YEARS.

WE'VE GOT REALLY OLD SOFTWARE AND IT'S NOT KEEPING UP, SO THEY WOULD LIKE INFUSION OF FUNDS SOONER RATHER THAN LATER WHICH IS OUTSIDE OF THE BUDGET PROCESS.

TED: RIGHT, IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN, JIM?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

TED: FORGET SOONER, HOW ABOUT LATER?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE.

IT'S PRETTY EARLY TO TELL.

REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO BE LOATHE TO GIVE ADRIAN FONTES MONEY TO SHORE UP SOMETHING THEY SPEND THE NEXT 18 MONTHS BEATING HIM OVER THE HEAD ABOUT.

POLITICALLY SPEAKING, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WILL.

I COULD SEE A SITUATION WHERE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IS ABLE TO REDIRECT MONEY.

WE HAVE FEDERAL CASH.

THERE ARE POTS OF MONEY TO SEND OVER THERE TO HELP DO THIS.

THIS ALL DOES COME TO, IT'S IMPERATIVE TO NOTE, MONTHS AFTER D.O.G.E.

AND ELON MUSK TRIMMED THE CYBERSECURITY FUNDING FOR ELECTIONS, ALL THIS FEDERAL MONEY, POOLS OF MONEY THAT STATES AND COUNTIES APPLY FOR IN ORDER TO SAFEGUARD ELECTORAL SYSTEMS, THAT MONEY HAS GONE AWAY.

YOU ARE LEFT IN THE SITUATION NOW WHERE AVENUES FOR FINDING THAT MONEY ARE FEWER THAN THEY WERE A YEAR AGO.

>> FONTES HAS ASKED TO REDIRECT MONEY WITHIN HIS OWN BUDGET BUT NEEDS LEGISLATIVE APPROVAL TO DO THAT.

NOW WE WAIT TO SEE IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE ADULTS ABOUT IT AND ALLOW HIM TO DO THAT, AS YOU SAY, JIM, IF THEY WOULD RATHER HAVE SOMETHING TO BASH HIM OVER THE HEAD WITH FOR 18 MONTHS AS THEY TRY TO OUST HIM IN THE ELECTION.

TED: REAL QUICKLY, LAURIE, I WANT TO STICK WITH YOU ON JUSTINE WADSACK.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK, HER LAWYER BACKED OUT OF THIS TRAFFIC CITATION, THAT HAS BECOME MONUMENTAL FOR MS. WADSACK.

WHAT DO WE MAKE OF ALL THIS?

>> THE ATTORNEY FILED A MOTION TO WITHDRAW FROM THE CASE AGAINST WADSACK'S APPROVAL FOR PROFESSIONAL CONSIDERATIONS, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

IT COULD BE A RANGE OF THINGS, EVERYTHING FROM HIM NOT GETTING PAID TO SOME OTHER DISAGREEMENT THEY FUNDAMENTALLY HAVE.

WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

WE ONLY KNOW SHE DOESN'T WANT TO LOSE HIM AS AN ATTORNEY.

HE IS THE ONE WHO FILED THE SUIT, BUT YEAH, IT'S A MESS.

TED: YEAH, GO AHEAD.

>> SHE WAS TRYING TO RAISE MONEY FOR THE CROWD FUNDING AND THERE'S A GoFUNDME OR SOMETHING FOR PEOPLE TO DONATE TO HER LEGAL FEES.

I THINK SHE'S NOT HAVING MUCH TRACTION WITH THAT ESPECIALLY SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SPEEDING TICKET, AND I THINK MAYBE THE ATTORNEY -- I DON'T WANT TO SPECULATE ABOUT HIS MOTIVES, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE BEST CASE TO TAKE, CONSIDERING IT'S A SPEEDING TICKET, AND I THINK SHE'S ASKING FOR MILLIONS.

>> 8 MILLION IN DAMAGES.

SHE LOST $24,000 A YEAR JOB.

>> OKAY.

TED: JIM?

>> YEAH, NO, I THINK THE CROWD FUNDING THING SHE PUT UP IS CLEAR.

I NEED THIS MONEY, I CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY MY ATTORNEY, AND THAT SHOWED UP ONLINE, THREE DAYS AFTER HE PUT IN THE MOTION, I'M NOT GOING TO BE YOUR ATTORNEY ANYMORE.

IT'S NOT HARD TO CONNECT DOTS A AND B. I THINK HE WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH THIS $8 MILLION CLAIM THAT TUCSON POLICE DEPARTMENT COORDINATED WITH EVERYONE THERE IN THE MEDIA.

TED: THE ENTIRE CITY.

>> KNEECAP THIS LADY'S ELECTION CHANCES.

>> ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT.

BEFORE WE GO, LAURIE, YOU HAD THE MOST CONTACT WITH ALFREDO GUTIERREZ OVER THE YEARS, AND HE HAD A LOT OF CONTACT.

HE WAS A VERY INFLUENTIAL PERSON.

TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

DIED THIS WEEK AT THE AGE OF 79.

>> YES, HE DID, DIED THIS WEEK.

THERE'S A LOT WE COULD LEARN FROM ALFREDO GUTIERREZ, WHEN I COVERED THE LEGISLATURE IN THE STONE AGES AND ALFREDO WAS MINORITY LEADER.

SENATE MAJORITY -- SENATE MINORITY -- TED: HE WAS IN LEADERSHIP.

>> AT THE TIME WHEN BURT BARR WAS THERE.

THEY WERE THE TWO MOST INFLUENTIAL MEMBERS OF THE STATE.

OTHER THAN THAT, BRUCE BABBITT, A DEMOCRAT IN THE STATE.

THEY DID NOT SEE EACH OTHER AS DEMOCRATS, THEY SAW EACH OTHER AS OPPOSITION, THEY COULD WORK TOGETHER, HAVE A BEER TOGETHER, AND AS A RESULT, PASSED A LOT OF INFLUENTIAL LEGISLATION THAT INFLUENCED THE STATE.

THE GROUND WATER MANAGEMENT ACT COMES TO MIND.

URBAN LAND ACT COMES TO MIND.

THE AHCCCS, IT WAS AN EXPERIMENTAL SYSTEM IN THOSE DAYS, COMES TO MIND.

TODAY'S LEGISLATURE COULD LEARN SO MUCH FROM THOSE PEOPLE, BUT, OF COURSE, THEY WON'T.

TED: IS THERE ROOM IN TODAY'S LEGISLATURE FOR ALFREDO GUTIERREZ?

>> THERE'S A CRYING NEED FOR ALFREDO GUTIERREZ, WITHOUT A SENATE COUNTERPART, SOMEONE WILLING TO WORK WITH THEM, THESE DAYS IF YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN AND WORK WITH A DEMOCRAT, YOU CAN LOSE YOUR COMMITTEE CHAIRMANSHIP.

YOU WILL BE PUNISHED FOR THAT, YOU WILL BE PRIMARIED, IF YOU DARE TO WORK WITH THE DEMOCRATS ON ANYTHING.

IT'S THE TIMES IN WHICH WE LIVE.

WE COULD LEARN A LOT FROM A GUY LIKE ALFREDO.

HE WORKED ALL OF HIS LIFE ON ISSUES THAT HE THOUGHT WAS IMPORTANT AND GOT MORE DONE, OTHER THAN BURTON BARR THAN ANYONE I HAVE SEEN IN 30, 40 YEARS OF POLITICS.

TED: AND HE WAS RABBLE-ROUSING TO THE END.

>> HE SURE WAS.

EARLY THIS AREA, HE WENT TO AN ANTI-TRUMP THING, AND HE RIPPED DOWN A TRUMP FLAG, AND HE ALSO THIS YEAR GOT HIS DEGREE FROM ASU.

TED: THAT'S RIGHT, AFTER ALL THOSE YEARS.

>> WAY BACK IN THE DAY, WHEN HE WAS IN SCHOOL, HE GOT KICKED OUT FOR ORGANIZING A COLLEGE PROTEST LIKE YOU WOULD SEE TODAY.

HE WENT BACK ALL THESE YEARS LATER, A GREAT MAN.

TED: ALFREDO GUTIERREZ, DEAD AT 79 THIS WEEK AND QUITE A HISTORY IN ARIZONA.

PANEL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.