>> COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

ONCE AGAIN, A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING INTERESTING TWIST, CALL FOR THE INVESTIGATION OF A STATE LAWMAKER WHO NOTIFIED PEOPLE ABOUT THE LOCATION OF I.C.E.

RAIDS.

THAT'S NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

>> GOOD EVENING WILL AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON," I'M RICK DEBRUHL FILLING IN FOR TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JIM SMALL FROM THE "ARIZONA MIRROR."

MARK BRODIE FROM KJZZ AND DENNIS WELCH FROM ARIZONA'S FAMILY.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF INTERESTING THINGS GOING ON.

TALKING ABOUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES, WHO THERE'S BEEN A CALL TO INVESTIGATE A STATE SENATOR, ANALISE ORTIZ ABOUT HER SPREADING THE NEWS ABOUT I.C.E.

RAIDS, AND SOME FOLKS AT THE LEGISLATURE BELIEVE THAT WAS WRONG, SO THEY ASK KRIS MAYES TO INVESTIGATE IT.

SHE SAID NO, NOW THE PIMA COUNTY ATTORNEY IS STEPPING UP AND SAYING I'M HAPPY TO DO IT, AND KRIS MAYES IS SAYING -- >> YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY.

SOUNDS LIKE COUNTY ATTORNEY TRYING TO MAKE A BIT OF A POLITICAL NAME FOR HIMSELF.

ALWAYS SEEM LIKE ATTORNEYS I TALK TO SEEMS LIKE A BIT OF A THIN ARGUMENT TO GO AFTER SENATOR ORTIZ FOR GETTING IN THE WAY OF I.C.E.

DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING BECAUSE SHE POSTED SOME STUFF ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

I MEAN, SHE MADE THE CLAIM, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND POSTING ACTIVITIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHAT GROUPS AND WHAT NOT, AND AGAIN, ATTORNEYS I'VE TALKED TO SAY THAT'S THIN ARGUMENT HERE, BUT IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE LIKE BRAD MILLER AT PINAL COUNTY, YOU WANT TO MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF, RAISE YOUR HAND, YOU'RE REPUBLICAN, GOING TO GET RUN ON THIS.

REMEMBER THIS ALL STARTED WITH SENATE PRESIDENT WARREN PETERSEN GETTING UPSET WHEN HE SAW SENATOR ORTIZ POST THIS KIND OF STUFF, AND YOU CAN'T FORGET THAT SENATOR PETERSEN RUNNING FOR A MAJOR OFFICE, TRYING TO GET A LITTLE POLITICAL YARDAGE OUT OF THIS TOO BY GOING AFTER A DEMOCRATIC, AND ONE OF THE MORE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATIC SENATORS.

>> THE PHRASE I KEPT HEARING FROM REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IS POLITICAL THEATER, TO THE POINT DENNIS IS MAKING.

>> IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S LESS ABOUT WHETHER THE INVESTIGATION WILL HAPPEN AND MORE ABOUT, ONCE AGAIN, AS YOU SAID, MAKING A NAME FOR HIMSELF.

>> IT'S NOT OUTSIDE THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY THAT PRESIDENT PETERSEN COULD HIRE HIM TO HAVE AN INVESTIGATION IN THE LEGISLATURE IF HE SO CHOOSES, BUT TO DENNIS'S POINT, A LOT OF LAWYERS ARE SAYING THERE'S NOT A LOT OF THERE THERE WHEN IT COMES TO HAVING SENATOR ORTIZ HAVING DONE SOMETHING WRONG.

>> DOESN'T ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES RUN THE RISK HAVING DONE THIS SO MANY TIMES, GOING UP THE LEGISLATURE.

THE LEGISLATURE SAYS YOU DON'T NEED THE MONEY TO FUND THAT OFFICE OVER THERE.

>> SURE, BUT THAT POSSIBILITY EXISTED THE WHOLE TIME.

THAT'S NOT A NEW POSSIBILITY, AND ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES WROTE THIS SCATHING LETTER TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IN PINAL COUNTY.

SAYING HEY, I CAUGHT THE INTERVIEW ON THE RIGHT-WING RADIO SHOW, WHY DON'T YOU EXPLAIN WHO IN THE LEGISLATURE TALKED ABOUT THIS, WHAT AUTHORIZATION YOU HAVE TO SERVE AS A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR BECAUSE SPOILER ALERT, ARIZONA LAW AND THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT HAVE A PROVISION FOR THAT.

THERE IS NOT A WAY FOR YOU TO DO THIS.

YOU LIVE IN PINAL COUNTY.

THIS IS AN ISSUE WITH MARICOPA COUNTY, ASSUMING THERE WAS AN ISSUE, HAVE YOU ABSOLUTELY NO GROUNDS OR AUTHORITY TO DO THIS AND SHOULD EXPLAIN YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU ARE ELECTED AND YOU'VE TAKEN AN OATH OF OFFICE TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAWS OF ARIZONA AND TALKING ABOUT DOING THINGS THAT VIOLATE BOTH OF THEM BLATANTLY.

>> ON THE FLIPSIDE, DENNIS, YOU'RE KRIS MAYES AND SAY I'M HAPPY TO DO AN INVESTIGATION.

BOTTOM LINE IS IF SHE BELIEVES THERE'S NO HARM, NO FOUL, WHY NOT SAY I'M HAPPY TO DO IT.

>> I DON'T THINK SHE WANTS TO ENGAGE IN THIS POLITICAL THEATER AND GO DOWN THAT KIND OF ROAD.

KRIS MAYES HAS SHOWN THAT SHE WILL GO AFTER PEOPLE, I THINK REGARDLESS OF PARTY SHE HAS SHOWN, AND NOT GOING TO ENGAGE IN THIS KIND OF POLITICAL THEATER MOVING DOWN, I THINK SHE WANTS TO AVOID HERE BECAUSE, AGAIN, NOT A LOT OF THERE THERE WITH A CASE LIKE THIS.

SENATE PRESIDENT CAN GET AS MAD AS HE WANTS, CAN MAKE THREATS, MAYBE KRIS MAYES RUNS THE RISK OF THE LEGISLATURE COMING BACK NEXT YEAR AND CUTTING FUNDING.

GOOD LUCK IF THAT IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT.

GOOD LUCK TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT TO VOTERS TRYING TO CUT THE TOP LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY IN THE STATE BECAUSE, REMEMBER, REPUBLICANS ARE TOUGH ON CRIME, WHY WOULD YOU CUT THE FUNDING TO THE COUNTY, THE STATE ATTORNEY.

>> ESPECIALLY FOR WARREN PETERSEN RUNNING FOR HIGHER OFFICE, HE IS RUNNING FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL.

HE WANTS TO TAKE ON KRIS MAYES.

WE HAVE A LOT OF POLITICS AT PLAY HERE, BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO JUST TALK ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IT IS SENATOR ANALISE ORTIZ DID THAT GOT THE RUNS UP IN ARMS AND THE LIBS OF TikTok ON TWITTER, ON X OUTRAGED.

SHE WENT ONTO INSTAGRAM AND SAID THERE ARE I.C.E.

AGENTS OUTSIDE OF AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STAGING OUTSIDE OF AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN MY DISTRICT, AND IT WAS A WARNING TO THE COMMUNITY SAYING HEY, YOU MIGHT WANT TO BE CAREFUL AROUND HERE.

THESE ARE FEDERAL OFFICERS DOING SOMETHING IN PUBLIC THAT HAS BEEN WELL COVERED EVERYWHERE ACROSS THE COUNTRY INCLUDING IN THE PHOENIX AREA, AND THAT'S WHAT HER SUPPOSED CRIME IS GOING ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND SAYING HEY, THIS THING IS HAPPENING ON STREET CORNER IN FRONT OF ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, MAYBE YOU SHOULD BE CAREFUL.

>> I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT TO REMIND PEOPLE WHY SHE'S DOING WHAT SHE'S DOING.

THIS IS THE SECOND DAY OF SCHOOL FOR THE SCHOOL, AND I THINK A LOT OF PARENTS WOULD BE INTERESTED TO KNOW REGARDLESS WHERE YOU LIVE, IF THERE WAS A HEAVY LAW ENFORCEMENT PRESENCE AT THE SCHOOL, REGARDLESS OF WHEREVER YOU ARE IN THE VALLEY.

WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO KNOW.

>> THE ARGUMENT IS SHE IS TELLING PEOPLE WHO COULD POTENTIALLY BE ARRESTED NOT TO GO THERE.

THE FLIP SIDE IS TO SAY OKAY, I SEE DRUG DEALERS, SHOULD I WARN THEM THAT THE POLICE MIGHT BE COMING.

THAT'S THE EXTREME OPPOSITE SIDE OF THIS.

>> AND THE ARGUMENT THAT SENATOR ORTIZ MADE IS THIS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN IF YOU USE THE APP WAZE TO GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING, IF THERE'S POLICE TRYING TO CATCH SPEEDERS, IT WILL TELL YOU, AND CAN YOU SAY ON THE APP THEY'RE STILL THERE.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT I DID AND WHAT PEOPLE ARE DOING ON THE APP?

YOU ARE TRYING TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM GETTING CAUGHT BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WHICH IS WHAT I WAS DOING AS WELL.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE TERM POLITICAL THEATER, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT KRIS MAYES, IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT IN THE PAST YEAR SHE SUED THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION 25 TIMES.

SO I MEAN, THERE IS AN ARGUMENT THAT SOME PEOPLE SAY, YOU'RE PICKING AND CHOOSING WHAT YOU WANT TO DO BECAUSE YOU THINK THIS IS MAKING MORE HEY FOR YOU OVER HERE.

>> A LITTLE OVER HALF THROUGH THE FIRST HALF OF THE YEAR, AVERAGING ALMOST A LAWSUIT A WEEK.

THAT'S PRETTY IMPRESSIVE.

SHE'S SIGNING ONTO A LOT OF THE LAWSUITS CHALLENGING A LOT OF WHAT WAS COMING OUT OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, I DO KNOW FROM SOME REPORTING I'VE DONE AND SPOKEN TO PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE, THEY WERE PREPARING FOR THIS CONTINGENCY WELL BEFORE DONALD TRUMP WON THE ELECTION.

WELL BEFORE WHAT IF THEY WERE PREPARING FOR THE WHAT IF, IF HE DOES WIN, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO AS DEMOCRAT ATTORNEYS GENERAL OF THE COUNTRY?

THEY WERE PLANNING TO PUT UP A FIGHT LIKE THIS, AND THEY HAVE FOLLOWED THROUGH ON THAT PREPARATION OR CHALLENGING THIS ADMINISTRATION.

A LOT OF WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

IT'S A BATTLE ODDLY ENOUGH OF FEDERAL AUTHORITY VERSUS STATES RIGHTS, I THINK EVERY ONE OF US HERE ARE OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER WHEN STATES RIGHTS WAS A REPUBLICAN ISSUE, A BIGTIME REPUBLICAN ISSUE.

I REMEMBER GOVERNOR BREWER SAYING I'M A STATES RIGHTS KIND OF GAL.

THIS KIND OF THING, FLIPPED EVERYTHING ON ITS HEAD, HASN'T IT.

>> JIM, SINCE YOU'RE THE OFFICIAL RETRIBUTION GUY, I'LL GO AT IT AGAIN, WHAT ABOUT GETTING ON THE BAD SIDE OF A PRESIDENT PRETTY WILLING TO GO TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND USE THAT AS A TOOL, AS A WEAPON?

>> WELL, I MEAN, KRIS MAYES CLEARLY, THAT'S NOT A CONCERN THAT'S DRIVING HER DECISIONS, RIGHT?

AND I THINK THAT'S OBVIOUS BY THE FACT SHE'S BEEN A PART OF THE COALITIONS, USUALLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 20 TO 25 STATES, DEPENDING ON THE LAWSUIT, AND YOU KNOW, HOW THE STATES ARE AFFECTED, THAT SHE SIGNED ONTO THE DIFFERENT LAWSUITS.

I DON'T KNOW.

I'M SURE THAT IS SOMETHING THEY THOUGHT ABOUT AND THEY TRIED TO WORK ON CONTINGENCY PLANS FOR WHATEVER MIGHT COME DOWN FROM D.C., BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT -- NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GUIDING HER, AND I THINK THAT THEY'VE MADE THE CHOICE FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT AS WELL, THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO PLAY WELL.

SHE HAS TO STAND FOR RE-ELECTION IN 2026, AND THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY, THEIR CALCULUS IS THAT THESE THINGS ARE, I THINK BOTH RIGHT TO DO TO DEFEND ARIZONA'S INTEREST AND NOT GOING TO BE -- ARE NOT GOING TO HARM HER POLITICALLY GOING INTO THE NEXT CAMPAIGN.

>> IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN VOTER, YOU'RE SAYING YOU'RE TAKING MY MONEY AND SUING THE PRESIDENT I VOTED FOR, ARE YOU WASTING MY MONEY IN DOING THAT?

>> THAT'S SOMETHING SHE'S GOING TO HAVE TO EXPLAIN IN THE NEXT ELECTION.

OBVIOUSLY SHE DID NOT EXACTLY WIN BY A LANDSLIDE WHEN SHE WON HER RACE.

A STATEWIDE DEMOCRAT WILL NEED SOME REPUBLICANS AND REPUBLICAN-LEANING INDEPENDENTS TO VOTE FOR THEM TO WIN, SO SHE'S GOING TO HAVE TO EXPLAIN.

WE HEARD HER SAY, I'M NOT SIGNING ONTO EVERY LAWSUIT THAT THE DEMOCRATIC ATTORNEYS GENERAL ARE PUTTING FORTH.

THERE WAS A LOT OF PREPARATION, THERE HAVE BEEN CASES SHE HAS NOT SIGNED ARIZONA ONTO.

WHAT SHE IS ARGUING, I'M SIGNING ONTO THE CASES WHERE I BELIEVE THAT ARIZONA IS HARMED, WHERE IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS A VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION, AND SHE BELIEVES THAT SHE'S ON SOLID GROUND ON THOSE, AND I THINK THAT'S THE ARGUMENT, TO THE EXTENT THAT THAT BECOMES A CAMPAIGN ISSUE, THAT'S PROBABLY PART OF THE ARGUMENT SHE MAKES ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

>> WE'VE MENTIONED SENATE PRESIDENT WARREN PETERSEN'S NAME ALREADY, TIME TO MENTION IT AGAIN.

HE'S MADE IT REALLY CLEAR HE'S UNHAPPY WITH THIS PARTICULAR TELEVISION STATION AND WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE LAST ELECTION, AND I THINK WE NEED A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT AND WHO'S WILLING TO TELL THE STORY?

>> I GET TO UNRAVEL IT.

>> YOU LIVE IN THE TELEVISION WORLD.

>> I LIVE IN THE TELEVISION WORLD.

THIS GOES BACK TO 2022, THE GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN, AND SOME OF THE TELEVISED DEBATE OR DEBATE THAT DIDN'T REALLY HAPPEN.

WARREN PETERSEN IS UNHAPPY WITH ASU PRESIDENT MICHAEL CROW IS UNHAPPY WITH PBS, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THEY GAVE GOVERNOR HOBBS TIME.

>> INITIALLY THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A DEBATE, AND GOVERNOR HOBBS SAID I WON'T DEBATE KARI LAKE ON THE AIR, AND NORMALLY WOULD HAVE SAID KARI LAKE, YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE ON TELEVISION.

AND THE QUESTION IS WHO IS MANIPULATING THE BEHIND-THE-SCENES TO SAY, WILL YOU DO THAT?

SHE ENDED UP NOT DOING IT, KATIE HOBBS GETS TO BE ON TELEVISION ALL BY HERSELF, AND THERE'S A QUESTION HOW THAT CAME TO BE.

>> AND THE RULES WERE IF YOU SAY YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO THE DEBATES AND THE OTHER PERSON GETS -- >> THE OTHER PERSON SAYS THEY WILL, THEY GET FREE TIME.

>> ON THE AIR, THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

WE SAW REPORTING DONE BY THE REPUBLIC ABOUT THE BACK AND FORTH BEHIND THE SCENES OF WHAT HAPPENED THERE THAT RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY SOME OF THE DECISIONS THAT WERE MADE WERE MADE, AND WARREN PETERSEN IS LOOKING AT THIS SAYING I WANT AN INVESTIGATION, I WANT PEOPLE TO LOOK INTO IT AND MAYBE THAT THE BROADCAST LICENSE SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY FROM PBS.

>> THE INVESTIGATION BY THE FCC.

>> YES.

>> JIM, IT WASN'T LIKE THIS CAME TO LIGHT VERY EASILY.

THIS WAS A RESULT OF PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST THAT TOOK QUITE AWHILE?

>> I THINK IT'S OBVIOUSLY A STICKY SITUATION, AT THE TIME, IT WAS A MESS, AND A LOT OF FIGHTING AND PUBLIC ACCUSATIONS BETWEEN ASU AND BETWEEN THE CLEAN ELECTIONS COMMISSION WHICH HOSTED DEBATES BETWEEN THE CAMPAIGNS AND THE CANDIDATES AND ALL OF IT, AND OBVIOUSLY THIS, IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS INFORMATION THAT DID NOT COME OUT EASILY.

WE'RE THREE YEARS PAST THIS, AND IT'S JUST NOW COMING OUT AND COMING TO LIGHT, AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE KIND OF WHAT WENT INTO -- HOW THEY WENT FROM A SCHEDULED DEBATE TO A CANCELED DEBATE TO WHAT THEY ENDED UP WITH.

>> SOME OF THE E-MAILS, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THE E-MAILS SHOW THAT THEY BROUGHT UP THE FACT OF KARI LAKE'S ELECTION DENIALISM WAS A FACTOR IN SOME OF THIS.

>> WASN'T JUST THAT THEY WERE SAYING WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU FOR WHATEVER REASON.

SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL IT A POLITICAL AGENDA, BUT IT WAS NOT IDEAL SITUATION IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO ACHIEVE AND WHAT VOICE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR.

>> IT IS INTERESTING HERE BECAUSE, AGAIN, ELECTION DENIAL CLAIMS ARE UNSUBSTANTIATED OVER AND OVER IN COURTS OF LAW AND THEIR OWN AUDITS AND WHAT NOT, BUT KARI LAKE WAS THE NOMINEE FOR A MAJOR POLITICAL PARTY HERE.

SHOULD THAT HAVE BEEN A CONSIDERATION JUST BRINGING THAT UP ON WHY SHE OR SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED THIS OR THAT.

IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE YOU START TALKING ABOUT PBS, START TALKING ABOUT ASU, TALK ABOUT SOME PUBLIC FUNDING, ASU IS A PUBLICLY FUNDED INSTITUTION, AN INTERESTING QUESTION WHY THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AT THAT POINT.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT POLITICAL BY ATHAT'S THE CLAIM WARREN PETERSEN IS MAKING.

BY GIVING KATIE HOBBS AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME ON AND DO A ONE-ON-ONE INTERVIEW, WHEN THE RULES CLEARLY STATED THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED, PETERSEN AND THE OTHER CRITICS, MOSTLY REPUBLICANS, WHO ARE CRITICIZING THIS, ARE SAYING THAT IT WAS ALMOST LIKE THE THUMB WAS PUT ON THE SCALE FOR THIS ELECTION.

>>> LET'S MOVE INTO THE EDUCATION WORLD.

THIS PAST WEEK, THERE WAS A RULING ABOUT THE WAY SCHOOLS ARE FUNDED.

THIS IS ANOTHER COMPLEX LAWSUIT WORKING ITS WAY.

WHO WANTS TO RAISE THEIR HAND AND GIVE THE BACKGROUND ON THIS?

>> I CAN TALK ABOUT THIS.

SO THE LAWSUIT FROM 2017, AND THEY WERE EIGHT YEARS INTO THE LAWSUIT NOW, AND FINALLY GOT A TRIAL COURT RULING ON IT, BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT SAYS IS ARIZONA IS UNCONSTITUTIONALLY PAYING FOR SCHOOL MAINTENANCE AND SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION.

NOT PAYING ENOUGH, CORRECT.

THAT THE STATE IS DRAMATICALLY, BY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS UNDERFUNDING SCHOOL REPAIRS AND NEW SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION, AND THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT STRETCHES BACK MUCH FURTHER, STRETCHES BACK TO THE 1980s, THE LAWSUIT HAS A COURT RULING, ARIZONA SUPREME COURT RULING IN 1994, ROOTS BACK TO THE 80s BECAUSE WE HAVE FOUR DECADES, HAD THE PROBLEM WHERE ESSENTIALLY THE STATE IS NOT LIVING UP TO CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT TO HAVE GENERAL AND UNIFORM SCHOOL SYSTEM WHICH THE SUPREME COURT HAS INTERPRETED TO MEAN, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE SCHOOLS HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME MONEY FOR THE BASICS FOR THE THINGS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE.

THAT WAY WHETHER A STUDENT GOES TO SCHOOL IN YUMA OR FLAGSTAFF OR PHOENIX OR IN CASA GRANDE, THEY'RE GOING TO GET -- HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME BASICS, AND THE TRIAL COURT, AFTER A TWO-WEEK TRIAL THAT TOOK PLACE EARLIER THIS SUMMER CAME BACK AND SAID, THE STATE IS NOT DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO, NEVER DONE WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO EVEN AFTER THE 1994 RULING, IT CONTINUES TO DRAMATICALLY AND GROSSLY UNDERFUND SCHOOLS, AND THE RESULT IS THAT WE HAVE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, CONSERVATIVELY, THREE OR FOUR BILLION DOLLARS THAT'S UNDERFUNDED, AND ESSENTIALLY SET IT UP FOR APPEAL, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO.

>> ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS THAT STUCK WITH ME AS YOU DO THE AMOUNT OF TIME, EIGHT YEARS, KIDS GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL THIS YEAR, FOURTH GRADE WHEN THIS STARTED.

THE ENTIRE TIME THEY'VE BEEN GOING TO SCHOOL AND UNDERFUNDED SCHOOL SYSTEMS WHEN YOU ARE TEACHING JOHNNY TO READ AND WRITE, BUILDING MAY BE FALLING DOWN, WHERE THEY HAVE OLD BUSES, THIS IS THE KIND OF MONEY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> NO AIR FOR BUSES.

>> NO AIR CONDITIONING.

AND YOU'RE TRYING TO TEACH KIDS IN THIS ENVIRONMENT, AND IT'S BEEN SUCH A LONG TIME COMING, I'M STRUCK BY THESE KIDS HAVE GONE THROUGH A MAJORITY OF THEIR SCHOOL IN THE K-12 SCHOOL SYSTEM IN UNDERFUNDED SCHOOL SYSTEM.

>> WHAT IS THE FINANCIAL IMPACT OF THIS, DO WE THINK?

>> POTENTIALLY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

>> THAT THE STATE WILL HAVE TO COME UP WITH.

>> THE STATE WILL HAVE TO COME UP WITH, YEAH.

>> TO FUND FOR NOT JUST MOVING FORWARD, BUT WILL HAVE TO FUND RETROACTIVELY AS WELL?

>> THAT, I DON'T KNOW.

IF I ASSUME IF A SCHOOL IS FALLING DOWN, LEAKY ROOF, BUSES DON'T WORK, WHETHER OR NOT THAT HAPPENED FIVE YEARS AGO, IT'S HAPPENING NOW, IN SOME CASES AT LEAST.

I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE HOW THAT WOULD BREAK DOWN.

SOME OF THAT MONEY WE HAVE TO SEE WHAT COMES DOWN ON THE ULTIMATE APPEALS.

TO DENNIS'S POINT, IT'S GOING ON EIGHT YEARS, IT'S GOING TO KEEP GOING ON, THE HOUSE SPEAKER AND SENATE PRESIDENT SAID IT WILL APPEAL.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW EASY IT WILL BE FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM, BECAUSE REMEMBER, YOU WANT TO RAISE TAXES WHICH IS PROBABLY THE SIMPLEST SOLUTION.

IF THIS ENDS UP GOING IN THE SCHOOL'S DIRECTION IN THEIR WAY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN RAISE TAXES TO PAY WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO, RETROACTIVELY AND DEFUND MOVING FORWARD, BUT REMEMBER, YOU GOT TO GET TWO THIRDS MAJORITY IN THE LEGISLATURE TO VOTE FOR A TAX INCREASE, WHICH IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT I WOULD SAY HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

>> WHICH RAISES THE QUESTION, YOU WONDER IF SOMEBODY PUT A BALLOT MEASURE ON KIND OF LIKE WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH PROP 100 DURING THE GREAT RECESSION WITH GOVERNOR BREWER, GOT THE LEGISLATURE TO REFER THAT TO THE BALLOT FOR A SALES TAX FOR EDUCATION.

YOU WONDER BECAUSE IT'S REALLY HARD, ESPECIALLY WITH REPUBLICANS CONTROLLING THE LEGISLATURE, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE A TWO-THIRDS VOTE.

>> THEY HAVE TO GET A BIPARTISAN BILL THAT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO AGREE ON WHICH WE KNOW IS VERY COMPLICATED.

ALL RIGHT, THIS PAST WEEKEND IN IOWA, ONE OF OUR TWO ARIZONA SENATORS, RUBEN GALLEGO, WAS VISITING THE IOWA STATE FAIR.

CALL ME CRAZY, I DON'T THINK HE WAS THERE FOR THE DEEP-FRIED TWINKIES OR THE REALLY GOOD CORN THERE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH RUBEN GALLEGO, AND WHY WAS HE IN IOWA THIS PAST WEEK?

>> DEPENDS WHO YOU ASK.

MIGHT BE THE SAME ANSWER TO WHY WAS HE IN PENNSYLVANIA.

>> I THINK WE HAVE AN OPINION.

>> IN PENNSYLVANIA A WHILE BACK AS WELL.

THERE'S SPECULATION WHAT SENATOR GALLEGO'S NEXT MOVE IS GOING TO BE?

PEOPLE SAID ARE YOU GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT?

HE IS NOT READY TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> THE STANDARD NONCOMMITTAL ANSWER.

>> SHOWING UP AT THE IOWA STATE FAIR IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO DOUSE THE RUMORS.

>> I GREW UP IN IOWA, IT'S MY HOME STATE.

GLAD TO SEE HE WAS PAYING ATTENTION TO MY HOME STATE.

HE HAD AN OP-ED PUBLISHED IN THE STATE'S LARGEST NEWSPAPER, IT'S ALL UPSIDE FOR HIM.

YOU KNOW, HE SAYS HE'S OUT THERE TRYING TO GET SUPPORT AND GET MOMENTUM BEHIND DEMOCRATS THEY HEAD INTO THE MIDTERM, NOT SAYING WHETHER HE'S RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

HE COULD BE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, AND BOTH CAN BE TRUE AT THIS POINT, BUT IT'S ALL UPSIDE FOR HIM.

HE GOES OUT THERE.

GETS HIS NAME OUT THERE.

THERE WAS A NATIONAL PIECE ON CBS THAT PROFILED HIS VISIT TO IOWA, AND I THINK THAT IT'S A LOT OF DEMOCRATS RIGHT NOW, JUST PUT THEMSELVES OUT THERE, PUT THEMSELVES IN A POSITION, MAYBE SOMETHING HAPPENED HERE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, AND YOU BECOME A -- DO BECOME A TOP-TIER OR SERIOUS CONTENDER FOR THE WHITE HOUSE, OR MAYBE A VICE PRESIDENTIAL PICK.

I THINK IT'S ALL UPSIDE FOR HIM.

POLITICALLY.

>> ESPECIALLY WHEN THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM IS THERE IS NO OBVIOUS LEADER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

IF YOU GO OUT THERE AND TALK ABOUT THE PARTY AND WHO ARE WE AND WHAT DO WE STAND FOR?

TO DENNIS'S POINT, IF YOU ARE NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, HE COULD BECOME A LEADING VOICE ON THE DEMOCRATIC FRONT.

>> DOWN TO OUR LAST MINUTE, JIM.

IS THIS A SLAM-DUNK?

IS THE ONLY QUESTION WILL HE GET THE SUPPORT OR NOT?

WE'RE A COUPLE YEARS OUT, BUT THIS -- IS THIS PUTTING YOUR -- PUTTING YOUR EGG IN THAT LITTLE BOWL AND SAYING I'M ABSOLUTELY IN?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK IT IS.

IT'S MORE JUST ABOUT BUILDING A PROFILE.

I THINK CERTAINLY IT'S POSSIBLE, IF YOU LOOK AT IT AND SAY HE'S A FRESHMAN SENATOR, WHAT'S HE DOING RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE SAID ABOUT BARACK OBAMA.

>> AND THEY BECAME FRIENDS.

>> RIGHT.

THIS HAPPENED BEFORE, BUT HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY JOSTLING BOOSTING THE PROFILE AND THE MESSAGE AS WELL AS THE POSITION TRYING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN TWO YEARS.

FOR GALLEGO, I WOULD SAY THIS IS TRIANGULATING FOR FUTURE, FOR DOWN THE ROAD.

>> AS THE OLD JOKE ALWAYS WENT, EVERY CHILD IN THIS COUNTRY CAN LOOK FORWARD TO SOMEDAY POTENTIALLY BEING PRESIDENT, EXCEPT SOMEBODY FROM ARIZONA.

RIGHT?

BRUCE BABBITT PROVED IT, JOHN McCAIN PROVED IT.

THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE THAT TRIED IT.

>> YOU DON'T PROVE IT.

>> GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY AND THE FACT YOU WERE WILLING TO SPEND IT WITH US.

THAT WILL DO IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "ARIZONA HORIZON."

TED SIMONS WILL BE BACK ON MONDAY.

I'M RICK DEBRUHL, ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE TEAM AT "ARIZONA