>> Ted: Coming up in the next hour on Arizona PBS, on Arizona horizon, it's the journalist's roundtable and we look at the week's top stories including the lively republican tea bait for governor and making tourism and on break it town, the U.S. citizenship test.

That's ahead on Arizona PBS.

Good evening.

It's Friday and that means it's time for the journalist's roundtable and we have plenty top ofplenty todiscuss.

WelcomePanel, good to have you here.

Cam, let's start with that gubernatorial debate.

>> Who could forget.

>> Ted: I certainly won't and what did we fet.

get?

What are your thoughts?

>> I thought that it was sort of a mess, to be honest.

No offense.

I thought everybody was, I don't want to say emotional, but I don't got heated.

I don't know if they got their points across as they wanted to and scattered from the candidates.

>> I think the real point is that, and bless your heart for being the ring master of what turned out to be a circus.

Viewers got a chance to see who these people really are.

Kari lake talking over everywhere showing she's a bit of a bully and Karrin Taylor robson and then a great opportunity, they were in visible before one said I'm at one percent had no place to go but up and not just Karrin versus Kari.

>> Ted: There was some substance but the foal of goal of how we do things and the boring campaign pitching and if you were a republican voter, what did you think what you saw?

>> I think a lot of voters, because there was some substance if there, but just watching some of the reaction, oh, my goodness, this will be a food fight.

>> Ted: Starting with the initial question, how you would improve over the past eight years and they went after the current governor.

>> I didn't expect Taylor robson to go after Ducey as much and more moderate than K arcari lake and here is how I'll be better and the person in charge not near as better.

>> Robson defended the economy and it has come back after the controversial Covid lockdown or state-at-home orders, but yeah, Ducey, the guy not on the ballot, ha that they all want to succeed and whoever will become the next governor, handing them a big rainy day fund and universal vouchers and the water plan and geez, gosh, he might want to show gratitude.

>> Ted: Kari lake said he had no backbone and Neely said he was a conspiracy and were you surprised republicans were going after mostly considered a successful Ducey couple of administrations?

>> I'm in agreement that Mary Jo, Karrin H had who had been appointed by Ducey leaving robson communities as a small business, but she's the one who hopes to pick up the Ducey mantle and the nonsocial republicans.

And by attacking Ducey, the other three were attacking robson and saying, if you like the fact that he had mask mandates and the fact he closed businesses and that he closed schools and the fact that we went from a $9 billion butch the budget to an $18 billion budget, you'll love Karrin and doesn't surprise me they wept went after Ducey that way.

>> Ted: You have a successful republican governor leaving officer and republican candidates and three of the four saying he didn't do a very good job?

>> It's easy to say if I would have been there, I would have made it better because they can't prove you wrong.

In terms of republican voters, yeah, Ducey has been somewhat well-liked.

>> Look at the fact, not only Kari, but the chair of the G.O.P and other republicans and there is that schism in the party and those who are the stop-the-steal types insisting Ducey should have taken the call from the president and the same thing Brnovich faces with a wing of the party and fairly strong wing saying the election was stolen and Doug Ducey did nothing.

>> Ted: Three of the four candidates and I can't figure without what some of them said and Kari lake would not have signed off on the lex election and Karrin Taylor robson couldn't comment and that's as close as you can get.

>> That sounds like a dodge because you knew what was in the certificate.

Here are the numbers.

>> Ted: In this republican primary, she was the only one should said I accept the results.

>> I think she said she would accept the results of this upcoming primary election.

>> Ted: She accepted the results of the 2020 election.

But again, goodness Gardiner goodness gracious, 2000 mules mentioned and all of this business and are they ever going to get over this?

>> That's the problem and I think that was a part of the point that Karrin was trying to make is we can't keep looking back wards andbackwards and we have to look forward.

Depending on who is nominated, while everyone is trying to appeal to the red meat version to the primary on August 2nd, at some point, there are more independents in this state than republicans or Democrats.

I don't know that a lot of these independents are going to find that to be the compelling issue.

And depending on who gets nominated, you could hand the governorship to this weak secretary of state in firms of KatiKatie Hobbs, like Joe Biden got elected.

>> All throughout 2022, we'll keep relitigating 20 and that's 2020 and that's the theme of the governor's race and Secretary of State's race and I don't know if it has come up in the treasurer's race and every candidate out there will have to be making their statements about how they view this election.

So it's not going away.

>> Ted: Yeah, education, Cameron, we got that into a fight because lake accused robson of critical race theory and, again, was there much -- can you define much difference as far as dealing with education from this crowd?

>> Between the four of them, it wasn't super focus focused policy and saying, well, you were a Democrat and like CRT and no, I don't and it didn't seem substantive and here is my education policy and let me line it out for you.

>> Where Karii was going after Karrin, they voted to allow dreamers to pay in-state tuition.

You're morguing illegal immigration and the abortion issue, the board of regents said when they passed the bill to restrict abortion, we have criminallual arrangements with hospitals we node to need need to honor and that makes her pro abortion.

Kari lake is the master master of the soundbyte when the issues are complex.

>> Ted: But will that work?

>> It will work for a certain segment voters, definitely, and feeling small because Matt salmon's exit and that makes stakes higher and maybe makes that gap between as it is between robson and lake smaller.

>> Ted: Last point on the debate and we'll move onto Matt salmon dropping out of the race.

Kari lake being a Democrat, changing her mind and becoming a republican, does that matter?

A couple of the candidates -- >> Pointing out that Donald Trump was once a Democrat, Ronald Reagan was once a Democrat and bob stump once a Democrat and I don't think anybody cares.

You can say, I've changed my view.

Look, dpoMy voter regular regular vacation, regular registration, they care what you are now.

>> Ted: Are people saying, I don't know, I see that picture with you miling smiling with Obama?

>> She's making herself into one of them and saying, oh win, I saw the light.

>> One of the better lines of the night was, comparing to trump, Karrin said, look, you're no Ronald Reagan and only you discovered guns, God and the G.O.P half an hour, basically, before you decided you were really wanted to run for governor.

>> Ted: You mentioned Matt salmon dropped out and was that a surprise?

>> No.

This was an in edge inevitable closer to the primary election day and he pull out saying look, I don't want voters to split their ticket acknowledging that republican voters would have to choose between himself and Taylor robson and seemed to be in the same lane.

You have to divide that vote up and more will go to lake.

>> I believe that, but that assumes that Matt's volts will votes will go to Karrin.

Matt started out looking for the trump endorsement and in moderate Congressman went full trumpan early on and who knows.

>> Ted: He didn't waste think time sending his vote to robson and was obvious when he didn't want to split as republicans and didn't want them to split for a certain result.

>> I was going to say the same thing and going for Taylor robson and enough for supporters die-hard and Matt's supporters, and I don't know.

But to listen to him didn't go for Taylor robson.

But the reality is, there's a lot of un-sided people out there.

>> Maybe they'll go to Zen.

She was a bit of a break-out.

>> Ted: We're supposed to have a democratic debate after republican debate and that did not happen and we spoke to Marco Lopez and is it wise to keep dodging these?

Because, again, Hobbs is the frontrunner.

>> You don't want to pay attention to anyone else and I think it was a missed opportunity.

I'm not saying the 20 minutes interviewed by you on PBS will change everywhere's mind.

There's only so much you can say and it was a missed opportunity for her.

He decided he would get headlines.

One of them being on this very hot, recent abortion issue where he said if I am governor, and any of these county attorneys prosecute a doctor for abortion, I will pardon them and that will bring in people who might have voted for Katie to take that issue.

Again, missed opportunity for her.

>> I will say I think a lot of the political adviserers would say it was a advise decision and you don't need to trip up, say something that won't go over well to a televised state-wide audience.

Why risk it?

From a transparency point of view, it seems like if you can't show up for this, what will you do if you're a governor?

>> Ted: It's another opportunity for you to debate because you will more than likely, I hope, if you win your primary, be in a general debate with your opponent.

It might be good to get reps in there before you go.

>> I think the don't show up and give yourself the opportunity to opportunity to put your foot in your month on TV makes sense if you have it in the bag.

There's a lot of people involved and splitting and a good opportunity for the publicity.

>> You hit on a lot of this, Katie is not good on her feet.

She was not good on her feet as a state senator and I think she's maybe overly managed or something like that and you may be right, this is a chance for her to screw up.

Sam anotherAt some point, we're in the channel 8 studios in late September, early October, and you're asking questions, if she can't figure out now how to deal with Marco let's Lopez, how will she deal with the nominee?

>> Ted: Let's move on here, how howie, we'll start with her, mark Brnovich weighing in which abortion law with another.

The 15-week ban by the governor.

>> He's mostly right and the reason is that even when the legislature passed the 15-week ban, it said in there, we are not rescinding the old law, which goes back -- it goes back to 1864 and that's how long this has been around.

>> Ted: Right.

>> There are technical issues there, and the state court of appeals issued an injunction against enforcement in 1973 about the same time as Roe and that injunction may cover Pima county.

We have technical issues there.

You've not the complication of the U.S. Supreme Court this week clearing the way for enforcement of last year's law about abortions on genetic defects.

And so, I mean, that is a God good starting point.

That ignores one issue, which is we have a right to privacy in the Arizona constitution.

Even if you believe that Roe v. Wade had no basis because there was no right to privacy in the U.S. constitution, that's something that needs to be litigated.

>> Ted: Let's go back to the idea we had two laws and the attorney general said that one supercreeds the new one which is supposed to supercreeds the new one.

>> Brnovich will go to court to get that injunction that howie referenced lifted.

And I mean, this is all going to fall in the lap of our state Supreme Court sooner rather than later.

And we'll see because as the for has maintained, despite the language and the senate bill passed this year, it will supercreed the territorial law.

>> Truthfully, I don't think Ducey read the bill.

I think he posted it.

The bill he signed, even when this takes effect -- it was done because the Supreme Court might uphold Mississippi and night not overturn Roe.

By the way, the bill says, the old law stays in effect and if Roe is overturned.

>> Ted: That's my question, if the bill says that, why does the governor almost immediately say, that's not the case and it's the new one.

>> I think it's confusion and only a definitive answer through the court.

None of us can say for sure what's happening and no one knows definitively.

>> I don't know what legal counsel the government is getting and there might be a sound decision and it might look not as draconian as the law but what we have now is absolute confusion and this has a real world impact on women's lives if someone is seek awning seeking an abortion for whatever reason, the providers will not provide.

>> Ted: It sounds like a defacto ban, just the confusion itself.

>> Yes, and perhaps there's a strategy there.

>> You've hit on a crucial point there.

The original because law has no exceptions for rape or incest and neither does the 15-week law.

I asked the for, governor, how do you sign a law with no rape or incest.

Don't worry, women can get an abortion.

The populous of the state with postal abortion want exceptions for rape or incest.

>> Ted: Do you think that's what the legislature wanted when it passed that?

>> She intended for the old 1864 law to go into effect if Roe was overturned.

Rape and incest are not included and I'm conflating the two and they don't believe there's any necessity for the Rape and incest and maybe Ducey is confused.

>> He believes people want rape and incest and for 14 weeks.

>> Ted: If the intent is there, food luck in the courtroom on that.

>> Back to the point, he didn't read the bill.

>> Ted: ,Well, that's according to you.

[ Laughter ] >> Ted: Let's talk about state budget, Mary Jo, $18 billion, huh?

I people, everything is beautiful, huh?

>> That's what you get with a bipartisan budget.

If you remember in April, when the legislature -- the house appropriation's committee tried to get started with a skinny budget, bare bone's budget, that wasn't good enough.

Some people said it was too hot, too cold and too much and didn't spend enough.

After that broke down, house speaker rusty bowers said, it will only get more expensive from here.

Indeed, it's almost $18 billion, yourself of the revenue that's come in because of the rebound from Covid.

And, you know, a lot of deal making and the billion dollars for K-12 is a huge, huge step with a price tag of some of the republican hold-outs against voucherings sayingvouchers.

>> We'll fix this round in Prescott for a one million and one-time funding and the first install of the installment for water and money for a border barrier and one-time border sheriffs and everybody got something and a wonderful junket.

>> There is something, having covered child welfare and for all of those family members who take in a child who's been removed from his or her parent business DCS, the anti-or grand grandmother, they get paid with foster parents.

For years, the state has given those families $75 a month to care for that child on behalf of the state.

It's going up to $300 and that's starting now.

>> Ted: You did a great job of reporting that and we covered that and most people had no idea that there was such a disparity.

>> Jeff Weninger, the sponsor of bill said he wasn't voting until that was in there.

>> Ted: Go ahead, please.

>> I was going to give kread to credit to Layla Alston.

>> Ted: The rainy day fund and state debt, how long have we been talking about that?

Did the governor get most of what he wanted?

>> I would say so.

Everybody is happy and unhappy and a perfect compromise.

The Democrats are celebrating because that's the most bipartisan budget they say they've had in years and year years.

>> He was for people at the bottom end for people out there and that would not sell among republicans, but as a whole, the governor is doing his victory dance and particular the water money.

I think, look, he is a lame duck and looking at legacy.

I think he sees the water issues a a big one.

Ted especially spread over three years and in three years, he could do God knows what?

>> And putting 330 for the next three years.

>> Ted: I have a feeling water issues will be there no matter what.

Did the governor get what he wanted?

>> I think so, very much.

And university vouchers.

As usual, the whole voucher to thing doesn't come up until the end of the legislature session and have a smaller award, the higher up the next scale.

No, that's all go and everybody who wants a voucher will get a voucher.

>> Ted: No log rolling, not allowed and did that help make for what we saw as a final budget?

>> I think so, yes.

There's still things, like some sound barriers on the loop 101 that got in there and maybe, unknow, might snag log rolling.

>> I'm expecting save our schools Arizona, they need 118,000 valid signatures by September 4th, I 4th, 24th, and if they gather enough signatures, it won't be until the 2024 election.

>> Ted: The reason for the voucher system, expanding it to the point of voters at one time said no thank you.

We go through this all again.

What's going on down there?

>> A bit of day day deja vu.

>> A referendum, if that happens and they get enough signatures, you know, there's next session or the 24 session, where the next legislature could put it on the ballot or enact it in some other form.

May I add one thing, the money for K-12, everybody is rejoicing get to get money into K-12 and they won't spend it unless this legislature raising this spending exam hadspending and there was getting the cap raised so schools can.

If they don't, schools will have to cut budgets and that's $1700 per student.

>> Ted: All of this money is floating around and yet, you have the cap that says, not so fast.

>> Yes.

>> Ted: Thank you all and great to have you all here.

I'm Ted Simons.

Thank you for join expution joining us and you have a great weekend.