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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING CHARGES OF FRAUD INVOLVING THE STATE'S EDUCATION VOUCHER PROGRAM.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

ANNOUNCER: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS OF MEMBERS OF PBS STATION, THANK YOU.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AND JOINING US TONIGHT, CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF KJZZ RADIO.

HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES AND LAURIE ROBERTS OF THE ARIZONA REPORT AND AZCENTRAL.COM.

CAMRYN, START WITH YOU, START WITH THE ESA, THE INDICTMENTS.

FIVE PEOPLE INDICTED FOR FRAUD.

>> JUST WHAT YOU SAID, SO FINALLY THIS IS THE STATE VOUCHER PROGRAM FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE KIDS AND WANT TO SEND THEM TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS OR HOME SCHOOLS AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT FIVE PEOPLE WERE INDICTED FOR ABUSING THE PROGRAM AND GHOST CHILDREN, BILLING FOR KIDS WHO DON'T EXIST SO CAN YOU PAY FOR STUFF.

IT'S THE RESULT OF A FLAWED PROGRAM, A REPUBLICAN PROGRAM, SHE'S A DEMOCRAT, IMPLYING IT WAS A FRAUD.

>> WHEN YOU GO FROM 12,000 KIDS TO OVER 70,000 WITHOUT PROPER OVERSIGHT.

THAT'S TRUE.

THE THREE KEY PEOPLE WERE EMPLOYEES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, IN CHARGE OF REVIEWING APPLICATIONS, YOU GOT A REAL CHILD THERE, I'M GOING TO SEND YOU MONEY FOR A PLACE, THAT A NONEXISTENT CHILD IS NOT GOING.

THIS COMES DOWN TO A LOT OF INTERNAL ISSUES THERE.

THE FACT IS THAT AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL POINTED OUT, AS THE GOVERNOR'S CONSISTENTLY POINTED OUT.

THEY WENT INTO THIS, SAID, LOOK, EVERYBODY WANTS THIS PROGRAM BUT DIDN'T BOTHER TO FIND OUT ARE THERE THE RIGHT SAFEGUARDS?

>> IT'S CLEAR THAT THERE NEED TO BE ADDITIONAL INTERNAL CONTROLS.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE, THE EMPLOYEES WHOSE JOB IT WAS TO APPROVE THESE PLANS INVENTED TRIPLETS THAT LIVED IN HER HOUSE, AT ONE POINT, COLLECTING ESA MONEY FOR TEN CHILDREN IN HER HOUSE.

SOMEONE ELSE HAD TWO CHILDREN THAT WERE TWINS, SAME BIRTH DATE AS THE TRIPLETS BY THE WAY.

I BELIEVE THAT THIS WHOLE THING WAS THE WHISTLE WAS BLOWN BY A CREDIT UNION THAT FOUND SOME RED FLAGS AND RAISED THEM.

TOM HORNE SAYS HE FOUND SOME OF THE OTHER CASES, BUT WHAT SOUNDS LIKE THE MOST EGREGIOUS CASE, THE WOMAN WITH THE TRIPLETS AND THE TEN KIDS, NOTHING IN THE CONTROLS THAT TRIGGERED WARNING OVER AT DOE THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM.

IF THIS IS GOING ON, WHAT ELSE IS GOING ON?

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS HOW THE REPUBLICANS ARE SO RESISTANT TO ADDITIONAL OVERSIGHT FOR THE PROGRAM.

THEY KEEP SAYING NO, NO, NO, YOU DON'T NEED IT, DON'T NEED IT.

WE HAVE KIDS GOING TO THE SNOWBOWL SKIING ON THESE THINGS AND NOW WE HAVE GHOST CHILDREN, FAKE CHILDREN, IN THIS ERA, IT'S CLEAR THAT ADDITIONAL OVERSIGHT IS NEEDED.

TED: YEAH, FAKE KIDS.

IS THAT THE KIND OF THING THAT THE RATTLE CAGES AT THE CAPITOL, ARE THEY SO CEMENTED IN POSITION THAT NOTHING MAKES A DIFFERENCE?

>> MAYBE FAMILIES NEED MONEY TO TAKE TRIPLETS TO THE SNOWBOWL.

I WANT TO NOTE HOW MUCH MONEY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

THE AVERAGE ESA IS AROUND $7,000, DEPENDS ON THE STUDENT.

IF YOU HAVE MULTIPLE KIDS THAT'S SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS, AND IF THE KID HAS CERTAIN NEEDS, A DISABILITY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE AMOUNT GOES UP.

THAT WAS THE CASE WITH SOME OF THE CLAIMS.

>> I THOUGHT THEY AVERAGED UP TO $9,000.

>> AVERAGES AND MEANS AND MEDIANS AND WE'RE NOT MATHEMATICIANS ENOUGH TO DO THAT.

BASIC VOUCHER IS ABOUT $7300.

AS CAMRYN POINTS OUT, IF YOU HAVE A DISABILITY, YOU'RE BLIND, YOU HAVE LEARNING DISABILITIES, YOU'RE ON THE AUTISM SPECTRUM, YOU CAN GET ADDITIONAL FUNDS.

THAT'S WHY THE ISSUE OF CREATING FAKE CERTIFICATES, SOME DOCTORS SAYING IT WAS NOT DOING A TRUE ANALYSIS SAYING, OH, NO, THEY HAVE THIS CONDITION, PAY THEM MORE MONEY.

TED: TOM HORNE, AS LAURIE MENTIONED, HE ALERTED, HE FOUND THIS STUFF OUT AND NOTED THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE HIRED, THE INDICTED PEOPLE WERE HIRED BY THE PREVIOUS EDUCATION SUPERVISOR, SUPERINTENDENT.

HE WAS QUICK TO POINT THAT OUT.

>> THAT IS TRUE.

YOU MEAN LIKE THIS?

THEY WERE HIRED UNDER KATHY HOFFMAN, AND THERE WAS EVIDENCE THERE WAS INITIAL FRAUD THAT OCCURRED IN HER ADMINISTRATION, BUT WHAT HAPPENED, ACCORDING TO THE WAY KRIS MAYES DESCRIBES IT IS IT PICKED UP AFTER SEPTEMBER OF 2022 WHEN THE NEW LAW TOOK EFFECT, WHEN THEY HAD THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF APPLICATIONS ALL AT THE SAME TIME, AND CLEARLY WERE OVERWHELMED AND MADE IT EASIER TO DO.

>> WELL, WE'RE OUT $600,000 GIVE OR TAKE FROM THESE PEOPLE, AND THE REPUBLICAN ATTITUDE AND THE LEGISLATURE IS, WELL, THERE'S ALWAYS FRAUD IN GOVERNMENT.

RATHER THAN SAYING, LET'S SIT DOWN AND FIGURE OUT WHAT ADDITIONAL THINGS WE CAN DO TO MAKE SURE THE MONEY IS GETTING TO KIDS WHO ARE REAL AND NEED IT, AND NOT TO FAKE KIDS.

>> THIS IS THE SAME WEEK THEY PUT NEW RESTRICTIONS ON PEOPLE FIRED FROM THEIR JOBS, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, ENTITLED TO UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION, IF YOU CAN'T VERIFY ANYTHING, HOLD OFF ON THE MONEY.

NEVER MIND THEY HAVE FOOD DUE AND RENT DO.

SOME PEOPLE IT'S OKAY TO DO CHECKS ON, THE VOUCHERS, NOT SO MUCH.

>> TO PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE, THE RESPONSE FROM THE REPUBLICANS IS MORE ALONG THE LINES, IT WAS FRAUD AND GOT CAUGHT SO THE SYSTEM WORKS LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO.

>> IT GOT CAUGHT, BECAUSE AS YOU POINTED OUT, A CREDIT UNION CALLED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, WE HAVE A CLIENT MOVING LARGE AMOUNTS OF CASH.

DO YOU THINK THERE'S AN ISSUE HERE?

THAT'S HOW IT GOT CAUGHT.

TED: CAMRYN, WE HAVE ANOTHER CANDIDATE FOR COUNTY RECORDER.

WHO IS THE CANDIDATE AND WHY IS HE RUNNING?

>> OKAY, WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVE JUSTIN HEAP, A FAR RIGHT REPUBLICAN IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

RUNNING FOR MARICOPA COUNTY RECORDER AGAINST REPUBLICAN STEPHEN RICHER, WHO IS SORT OF AN ENEMY OF THAT CROWD BECAUSE HE'S A REPUBLICAN, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTION FRAUD STUFF, THEY'VE BLAMED HIM LARGELY FOR STEALING ELECTIONS, FOR BEING IN THE POCKET OF DEMOCRATS AND TAKING THINGS FROM DONALD TRUMP, KARI LAKE, WHICH HE, OF COURSE, SAYS IS RIDICULOUS AND THE INTENT IS TO PRIMARY HIM, WHICH IS INTERESTING BECAUSE HEAP WAS ASKED TO RUN, APPARENTLY, BY JAKE HOFFMAN, AHEAD OF THE FREEDOM CAUCUS IN ARIZONA, WHICH IS THAT WHOLE GROUP, AND THERE WERE ISSUES THAT CAME UP WITH HIS FINANCE DISCLOSURE, WHICH IS A WHOLE, SITUATION.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THE CAMPAIGN STARTED WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS CAMPAIGN.

>> YEAH, HE HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE WEDNESDAY I BELIEVE IT WAS PLEDGING TRANPARENCY AND HONESTY, BRINGING THOSE QUALITIES BACK TO THE RECORDER'S OFFICE, AND THE RECORDER'S OFFICE OVERSEES ELECTIONS OTHER THAN DAY OF, AND TURNS OUT THE SAME DAY HE FINALLY FILED CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORT DETAILING 2023 CAMPAIGN FINANCES, WHICH WAS DUE, MR. TRANSPARENCY WAS SUPPOSED TO FILE IT 43 DAYS EARLIER.

HE FILED IT AND SAID I COLLECTED NO MONEY OTHER THAN INCIDENTAL CASH FROM FAMILY MEMBERS, BUT NO PAC MONEY, AND YET A COUPLE OF REPORTERS AND DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANTS TOOK A BRIEF LOOK THROUGH A FEW PAC CONTRIBUTION REPORTS AND FOUND OUT THEY REPORTED THEY'D GIVEN HEAP MONEY.

>> I THINK DENNIS WELCH AT CHANNEL 3 LOOKED AT THIS AND SAID WAIT A SECOND, YOU SAID NO PACs, THERE ARE PACs ALL OVER THE PLACE.

>> IT DISAPPEARED, IT WAS MONOPOLY MONEY, PERHAPS IT DIDN'T COUNT.

HERE'S THE OTHER THING, LAURIE TALKS ABOUT THE FACT THE RECORDER'S OFFICE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ELECTION AND EARLY VOTING.

ALSO FOR THE DEED, YOU'VE GOT OTHER DOCUMENTS YOU WANT RECORDED, YOU WANT THEM RECORDED PROPERLY, NOT 43 DAYS LATER.

THAT IS IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF CAN A GUY WHO CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT DEADLINES ARE BE TRUSTED TO GO AHEAD AND MAKE SURE THAT YOUR DOCUMENTS ARE WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE.

TED: ENDORSED BY KARI LAKE, GOSAR, BIGGS, WHICH MAKES SENSE.

>> ONE MORE THING ABOUT THE MONEY, JUST BEFORE I CAME ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," HEAP SAID HE DIDN'T CASH THE CHECKS, HE DESTROYED THEM OR RETURNED THEM TO THE PACs, THAT'S WHY HE DIDN'T DISCLOSE THEM.

I LITERALLY HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO DO RESEARCH, TUNE INTO KJZZ TO FIND OUT.

TED: IS THIS NOT THE GUY WHO WAS IN SUPPORT OF LIZ HARRIS, AND CONNECTED EVERYONE FROM THE MORMON CHURCH TO THE GOVERNOR TO THE SINALOA DRUG CARTEL.

MOCKED BILL GATES WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT HIS PTSD.

DID HE NOT PRIORITIZE POLITICAL MEETINGS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU GAVE HIM -- >> THERE WAS A REPORT, ORIGINATED IN THE "WASHINGTON POST" LAST YEAR.

HE'S A FIRST TERM LEGISLATOR.

RIGHT AFTER THE SESSION BEGAN, A LOBBYIST WANTED TO MEET WITH HIM TO TALK ABOUT DEREGULATION ISSUES IN ARIZONA, NOT SURE WHICH DEREGULATION ISSUES, BUT DEREGULATION ISSUE, AND RESPONSE VIA E-MAIL IS I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT SCHEDULING A MEETING, HOW MUCH MONEY YOUR LOBBYING FIRM GAVE TO MY CAMPAIGN, AND IF YOU DIDN'T GIVE ANY, WHY NOT?

AND BASICALLY THE INTERPRETATION OF THAT IS THAT I'LL MEET WITH YOU, BUT ONLY IF YOU GAVE ME CASH FOR THE CAMPAIGN.

>> WHAT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING IS THAT HEAP IS NOT THE ONLY QUOTE, UNQUOTE CONSERVATIVE, AND I'LL USE THAT TERM, IF YOU END UP WITH TWO OR THREE CONSERVATIVES SPLITTING THAT VOTE, THE MAGA VOTE, THE NO EARLY BALLOTS, NO VOTING CENTERS, THEN THAT'S THE BEST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN TO MR. RICHER.

>> WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE HERE IS THE FAR RIGHT, THE MAGA CROWD, JAKE HOFFMAN AND THE FREEDOM CAUCUS, LINING UP CANDIDATES FOR EACH OF THE COUNTY OFFICES, WANT TO TAKE OVER THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, WANT TO TAKE OVER THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

ALL OF THESE THINGS AND THEY'RE GOING TO GET TRUMP ENDORSEMENTS FOR ALL OF IT, WHICH IS GOING TO HELP THEM OUT.

IF THEIR CANDIDATES WIN, YOU'LL SEE A REPEAT OF MARTHA McSALLY AND -- NOT KYRSTEN SINEMA BUT KARI LAKE, BUT PEOPLE WHO WHEN THEY GET TO THE GENERAL ELECTION, THE CANDIDATES THE REPUBLICAN VOTERS ARE NOMINATING ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE TO THE GENERAL ELECTION VOTERS, IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT, YOU HAVE TO BE HAPPY ABOUT THE TURN OF EVENTS.

I KEEP WONDERING WHEN ARE THE REPUBLICANS GOING TO FIGURE OUT YOU NEED TO BE PUTTING UP, NOMINATING A REPUBLICAN WHO CAN WIN.

THEY DON'T DO IT.

TED: IS THERE A DEMOCRAT RUNNING FOR COUNTY RECORDER?

>> THERE WILL BE, I'M SURE.

TED: IS THERE ONE RIGHT NOW?

>> I HAVEN'T SEEN ONE.

YOU GET INTO THINGS, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR POINT ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS FINALLY FIGURING OUT WHO THEY PUT IN THERE, BUT THE LOWER YOU GET ON THE TICKET, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO JUST VOTE PARTY.

YOU GET DOWN TO CORPORATION COMMISSION, GET DOWN TO CENTRAL ARIZONA WATER CONSERVATION ISSUE, GET DOWN TO SCHOOL BOARDS, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY I HAVE AN R BEHIND MY NAME, I WILL VOTE FOR WHOEVER IT IS.

MUCH TO THE TICKET, YOU'RE RIGHT, KARI LAKE.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU, MARICOPA COUNTY RECORDER'S JOB IS SO HIGH-PROFILE SINCE THE 2020 ELECTION, THAT'S AN OUTLIER.

POSSIBLY THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AS WELL.

>> CAMRYN, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE BILL THAT WOULD ALLOW ANYONE TO KILL ANYONE TRESPASSING ON THE LAND.

>> I BELIEVE IT'S A HEAP BILL.

TED: IS IT REALLY?

>> IT SURELY IS.

>> WE HAD AN INCIDENT SOMEONE IN NOGALES KILLED SOMEONE AND SAID THEY WERE DEFENDING THEIR PROPERTY, SHOT HIM -- I CAN'T SAY THAT, HE SAYS IT WASN'T HIM, BUT THE BILL WOULD BASICALLY EXPAND THE RIGHTS TO USE GUNS ON PEOPLE, AND IT'S ACCORDING TO THE PROPONENTS OF THE BILL, IT'S A 2nd AMENDMENT ISSUE.

TED: PROVIDED YOU ARE SHOWING YOU ARE PROTECTING YOURSELF OR SOMEONE ELSE?

>> THE CURRENT LAW, WE HAVE THE CASTLE DOCTRINE, START WITH YOUR HOUSE, YOU FIND SOMEONE IN THE HOUSE, YOU HAVE NO DUTY TO WITHDRAW, AND IF YOU FEEL THREATENED, YOU CAN USE DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE, YOU CAN USE IT PERHAPS IN THE YARD.

THE GENESIS OF THIS IS SAYING COMING BACK TO THE NOGALES RANCHER, IF YOU LIVE IN TOWN, BUT HAPPEN TO HAVE A THOUSAND ACRES WHERE YOU ARE RANCHING AND YOU GOT SOMEBODY COMING ACROSS YOUR LAND, PARENTHESES, IMMIGRANT, IF YOU FEEL THREATENED, YOU CAN USE DEADLY FORCE.

NOW, I DON'T KNOW, READING IT THAT THESE CHANGES BY THEMSELVES ALLOW THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE, BUT CERTAINLY MAKES IT MUCH MORE OF A DEFENSE, WHERE YOU CAN SAY, WELL, I WAS THREATENED, THEY WERE COMING AT ME.

THEY HAD A KNIFE, A GUN, A LARGE ROCK.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

TED: AS IT IS, THE RANCHER IS CHARGED WITH SECOND-DEGREE MURDER AND AGGRAVATED ASSAULT.

>> RIGHT.

NOT LIKE HE WAS COMING ACROSS OVER HERE.

THE RANCHER WAS HAVING LUNCH WITH HIS WIFE AND THE HORSES START DOING WHAT HORSES DO.

HE COMES OUT ONTO HIS PORCH AND SEES THIS GROUP, HE SAYS.

THIS IS ALL WHAT HE SAYS.

SEES A GROUP OF ARMED MEN CROSSING HIS PROPERTY.

HE RUNS TO GET HIS AK-47.

THEY ARE ABOUT A FOOTBALL FIELD AWAY FROM WHERE HE IS, ACCORDING TO COURT RECORDS.

HE GETS HIS AK-47 AND SAYS THAT ONE OF THE MEN POINTED A GUN AT HIM SO HE SHOT OVER THEIR HEADS.

LATER ON, ONE OF THE MIGRANTS WAS FOUND SHOT IN THE BACK AND WAS UNARMED.

BASED ON THAT, CHARGES WERE BROUGHT.

THE QUESTION IS, WOULD THIS NEW LAW HAVE OFFERED HIM A LEGAL SHIELD?

HE SAYS HE FELT THREATENED THAT THE GUY HAD -- >> A GUY THREATENING YOU.

>> THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE WITH THE GROUP, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I THINK THE WHOLE IDEA OF THIS BILL, AND WHAT JUSTIN TALKED ABOUT IN COMMITTEE, WAS OFFERING A LEGAL SHIELD TO THE RANCHERS.

>> I THINK THE CONCERN FROM PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THE BILL, AND THAT'S DEMOCRATS, IS THAT THIS WOULD BE, I THINK, ONE OF THEM SAID OPEN SEASON ON IMMIGRANTS, AND BASICALLY EVERYONE WITH A GUN WHO GETS EXCITED ABOUT THE LAW IS GOING TO BE FIRING LEFT AND RIGHT, AND IT'S GOING TO BE CHAOS, AND I MEAN, WE SHOULD PROBABLY NOTE THAT HOBBS WOULD ALMOST VETO THIS BILL.

TED: THIS HAS AN ENDING WE'VE ALL SEEN BEFORE.

ANOTHER BILL THAT MIGHT HAVE AN ENDING WE'VE SEEN BEFORE, KEEPING KEEPING DONALD TRUMP, IF IT'S FOUND THAT ANYONE -- DONALD TRUMP -- VIOLATES THE 14th AMENDMENT, THE INSURRECTIONIST CLAUSE, CAN'T KEEP HIM OFF THE BALLOT IN ARIZONA?

>> WE KNOW COLORADO KEPT HIM OFF THE BALLOT.

THAT'S GOING TO THE SUPREME COURT, U.S. SUPREME COURT, NOT COLORADO, THEY ALREADY DECIDED, WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN THROW HIM OFF THE BALLOT.

NOW YOU HAVE THE LEGISLATURE HERE, AND I THINK BASED ON THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED IN THE HEARING, CLEAR THE SUPREME COURT IS SKEPTICAL OF WHAT COLORADO DID.

LET'S JUST SAY THE U.S. SUPREME COURT DOES GO AHEAD AND SAY THROW HIM OFF THE BALLOT BECAUSE OF THE INSURRECTION CLAUSE.

THE ARIZONA LEGISLATURE HAS COME ALONG AND PREEMPTIVELY SAID NO CANDIDATE FROM ANY RECOGNIZED POLITICAL PARTY CAN BE THROWN OFF THE BALLOT DUE TO A 14th AMENDMENT CASE.

BASICALLY WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, IN THE EVENT THE SUPREME COURT DECIDES, YES, THE CONSTITUTION APPLIES, THEY CAN SAY, THEY CAN OVERRIDE THE CONSTITUTION HERE LOCALLY AND CHOOSE TRUMP OVER THE CONSTITUTION.

TED: THAT'S MY QUESTION, IS THIS REMOTELY CONSTITUTIONAL?

>> WELL, NO.

TED: IS EVERYTHING AS DESCRIBED COMES INTO LINE?

>> WE HAD A CASE IN ARIZONA BROUGHT BY ANOTHER REPUBLICAN, IN A FEDERAL COURT, TO TRY TO KNOCK TRUMP OFF THE BALLOT OVER THE 14th AMENDMENT.

THAT GOT THROWN OUT FOR A WHOLE SERIES OF REASONS INCLUDING THE PLAINTIFF WAS AN IDIOT.

LEAVING THAT ASIDE, IF A FEDERAL JUDGE CONCLUDES THAT HE IS IN VIOLATION AND ORDERS THE STATE NOT TO PUT HIM ON THE BALLOT, I'M NOT SO SURE THE STATE LEGISLATURE BY DINT OF SAYING WE ARE THE LEGISLATURE CAN SAY NEVER MIND.

WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY IN THIS STATE OF ARIZONA SPENDING MILLIONS FIGHTING FEDERAL COURT RULINGS.

IT WOULD BE ONE OF THOSE.

>> DON'T YOU THINK IT'S INTERESTING, THIS IS A LEGISLATURE THAT TALKS ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION ALL THE TIME.

GOT TO FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION, AND YOU DO.

WHAT THEY BASICALLY ARE SAYING IS IF WE HAVE A CHOICE BETWEEN THE CONSTITUTION, ASSUMING THE SUPREME COURT ALLOWS IT, AND TRUMP, WE CHOOSE TRUMP.

>> BUT HE DID, TOO.

HE DID, TOO.

LOOK AT JANUARY 6, THERE WAS THE CONSTITUTION AND TRUMP.

WHO DID TRUMP CHOOSE?

TED: DOES THIS HAVE THE ENDING WE TALKED ABOUT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO?

>> VETOED BILL.

>> I CAN ALREADY SEE IT.

>> I CAN SMELL A VETO.

>> I WANT TO GET TO THIS ARIZONA INVASION ACT.

THE BILLS PACKAGED AS WAYS TO FOR THE STATE, ONCE AGAIN, TALKING CONSTITUTIONAL THINGS HERE.

STATE DOING FEDERAL ACTIONS.

HOWIE, EVERYTHING FROM LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT TO, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY ENFORCING FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS, TO NEEDING A LICENSE TO BEING e-VERIFY FOR LICENSING, ALL THESE THINGS, THIS IS A LOT OF STUFF, INCLUDING SB 1070 REARING ITS HEAD AGAIN.

>> WELL, FOR THOSE OF US WHO SAT THROUGH YEARS OF COURT HEARINGS, SB 1070 WAS DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY BY RUSSELL PEARCE AND FOLLOWERS TO SAY WE WANT TO GIVE LOCAL POLICE A ROLE IN ENFORCING FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAW.

U.S. SUPREME COURT SAID, [SPEAKING SPANISH] OBVIOUSLY, AND THIS IS FEDERAL LAW.

AND UNLESS YOU HAVE A DELEGATED AUTHORITY, WHICH I.N.S.

CAN GIVE YOU, YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO DO THAT.

COMES BACK TO SENATOR SHEMP'S BILL TO SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT CREATING FEDERAL LAW, WE'RE SAYING IF YOU CROSS THE BORDER ILLEGALLY AND COME INTO THE STATE, IN OTHER WORDS, NOT AT PORT OF ENTRY, YOU ARE VIOLATING ARIZONA LAW.

COUPLE OF PROBLEMS HERE, LEAVING ASIDE SENATE BILL 1070, LEAVING ASIDE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

IF SOMEBODY IS OVER ON JEFFERSON STREET, HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY CROSSED THE BORDER ILLEGALLY UNLESS YOU RACIALLY PROFILE THEM?

>> A FEDERAL JUDGE IN TEXAS, I THINK YESTERDAY, ALREADY RULED THAT THEIR LAW, A SIMILAR TRESPASSING LAW, HAVE YOU AUTHORITY TO DO IT, ALREADY SAID NO, THAT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

THEY KNOW THIS IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE EITHER, IN THE COURTS AND NOT GOING TO GET THAT FAR BECAUSE KATIE HOBBS WILL VETO IT.

THIS IS ABOUT THE FALL ELECTIONS.

THEY RIGHTFULLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE BORDER IS A HUGE ISSUE, IT'S BLOWN UP BECAUSE OF BIDEN'S INATTENTION, DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, WAY TOO LATE TO THE PARTY, AND NOW HE'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DO I DO?

THAT'S WHY HE'S RUNNING DOWN TO THE BORDER THIS WEEK.

IN NOVEMBER, IN SOME OF THE LEGISLATIVE RACES WHERE THEY'RE FACING COMPETITION, AND THERE ARE NOT MANY OF THEM, WHERE THE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO TAKE OVER, THEY'VE GOT THIS BILL AND THEY CAN TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE UPSET WHAT'S GOING ON THE BORDER.

>> YES.

SO WE'VE GOT MONTENEGRO AND SHAMPRUNNING THAT BILL, THAT SAYS WHAT IS FEDERAL LAW WOULD BE STATE LAW, WHICH WAS RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL IN TEXAS AND BASED OFF TEXAS' LAW, AND THEN THERE'S THE HCR PUSHED BY TOMA.

TED: WHICH CAN GO TO THE VOTERS.

>> THAT'S THE THING ABOUT THE SCR AND HCRs, NOT TECHNICALLY A BILL AND CAN GO TO THE BALLOT, IT BYPASSES THE ISSUE OF THE GOVERNOR'S SIGNATURE, AND IF IT'S POPULAR ENOUGH, VOTERS CAN PASS IT.

THAT'S THE INTERESTING ONE TO ME.

>> AND WHAT'S INTERESTING, EVERYONE MAKES, OH, MY GOD, THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END.

WE ALREADY HAVE REQUIREMENTS OF EMPLOYERS IN THIS STATE TO USE THE e-VERIFY PROGRAM, ONLINE PROGRAM.

IF I'M GOING TO HIRE YOU I PUT IN YOUR NAME, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND IT WILL TELL ME IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

ALREADY UPHELD BY THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

THIS IS, NOW WE REALLY MEAN IT AND PUT IN OTHER PENALTIES AND SEND IN CONTRACTORS AND SUBCONTRACTORS AND EXTEND IT TO PUBLIC BENEFITS OF MORE THAN $500 A YEAR.

TED: WE GOT LIKE 15 SECONDS LEFT HERE.

YEA OR NAY BACK TO THE RESOLUTION, WOULD THAT PASS WITH THE ELECTORS, YOU THINK?

>> MAYBE.

>> MAYBE.

>> WITH THE VOTERS?

>> YES.

TED: YOU THINK SO?

>> YES.

TED: YOU GOT IT DONE IN LESS THAN 15 SECONDS.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW, I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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