>> Ted: Coming up in the next hour on Arizona PBS, on Arizona horizon, it's a journalist's roundtable and we look at the week's top stories, including governor Ducey making an endorsement for governor and California prepare for women traveling from Arizona to gain access for abortion services and perceptions involving the millennial generation.

Welcome to Arizona horizon.

This is Friday and time for the journalist's roundtable and Laurie Roberts and Bob Christie of the associated press and Steve Goldstein of KJZZ roand weZ radio and he says Karrin Taylor-robson, you're the one.

>> Everybody was waiting for this to happen and sets up the proxy war of Donald Trump versus Doug Ducey and I don't think it is a game changer, but I think it's a help and a great signal to more moderate republican women, perhaps, and independents who are the same people who, I think, handed the 2020 election to Joe Biden.

So, it's good news for Karrin Taylor robson.

>> Ted: It came the day of voting and when Donald Trump gave another endorsement at Kari lake.

>> You know, doog Doug due Ducey learned his lesson and there was a tight six-way race and Scott Smith, he was believed to be ahead and Ducey spending lots of money and it was two weeks after ballots dropped and that was it.

And Ducey won.

Ducey learned his lesson and he came out.

The day ballots saw on the news Ducey says vote for robson and the next day, boom, and she gets a hit off of it is the thinking.

>> Ted: Steve, the only great candidate for candidate, robson.

>> That's quite a statement and I'm not sure we can quantity Faye thatquantifythat and not verbatim, that she would be an embarrassment to the state and something that Laurie said, it's possible that the Sam and Ducey combination, people going tor for Kari lake, that's a base vote.

>> Ted: Will it reel in voters wooed by lake?

>> Say it again.

>> Ted: People edging towards lake, they see all of this momentum to robson and will they inch over or are they stuck?

>> I think it's one of those things it's black or white.

You're in her club or you don't get her club or haven't tuned in yet to find out.

What I find interesting about this race, is Kari lake's unfavorable ratings is 38%.

Most people made up her mind and all we have left are the undecided.

You would think she would try to broaden her base and trying to attract new people.

Instead, she's out with an ad blowing up things at the border and how coming off as somewhat in hinged bring new voters?

I agree with you, the momentum is with robson at this point.

>> I don't disagree.

I think the disengaged voter and the average person not into politics and not watching the races, who maybe watches the news or seeing ads will pay attention and Kari lake has the name I.D.

and they know who she is and think they did and haven't watched the battles.

They may have -- she's got a chance, I think.

>> Ted: Steve, republican primary and whose endorsement means most, trump, Ducey?

>> Well, trump's endorsement means more than Ducey but the fact that people who like Kari lake know they like lake and the trump endorsement came and the Ducey endorsement, the folks involved and the one encounter, bob, to what bob is saying who will be influenced or not is that people who are the primary voters, we know this and many are the ones who are engaged most of the time and I agree, the general election and primary, a lot of these people are influenced.

>> This is the most recent in an avalanche of endorsements she's been announcements.

Every republican mayor has endorsed her and maybe I'm wrong about that and many of them, at least have and Newt Gingrich endorsed her.

She has the go ahead, this, for the establishment and she doesn't like you to use that word, establishment, because that's a dirty word in primary republican politics and that's should she is, a mainstream republican.

>> Ted: Steve, we had a new poll, the republican primary for U.S. senate and what a change.

>> If you want to talk where the endorsement matters.

Blake masters, who is fairly unknown and Peter Tiehl, who gave money to J.D.

Vance, conventional and masters has gained a lead and a significant lead at this point and not over the attorney general mark Brnovich but Jim Lehman spending a ton on ads and masters, Lehman and Brnovich.

>> Ted: In April, Brnovich had a slight lead and he's third now in this race.

>> Millions and millions for Jim and masters and you throw in trump's endorsement on masters and he gets a swing and people watching, making their decisions and McGuire and former national guard general who was a90edanointed and he's not registers andregisteredand he's on paper.

When you talk to him, he's a good candidate.

>> Ted: Justin Olsen is getting nothing.

>> I think that McGuire would be the republican -- where he's a nominee who had the best chance of knocking off Mark Kelly and astronaut against former general and veteran.

>> You have all of the perfect things.

>> The thing we know about Arizona elections, the candidates, you know, they start on the symptoms extremes of their parties and to get to the middle that matters in the general, they have to come to the center and K arcKari lake can't come to the center and Blake masters, maybe you have a shot, I don't know.

But McTbier could McGuire is just not registering.

>> Ted: You nenever never mentioned march Brnovich.

What happened?

>> We know he's been a terrible fundraiser.

He was trying to claim in some fundraising appeals he was supported by President Trump and it was a rough fit to begin with, Ted.

One is, he came out on fox news after the 2020 election and was the first republican elected official I can remember in Arizona that said there was no fraud.

Everything was fine.

>> Ted: But bob, why did he try to reverse that.

We see what's happening to Liz Cheney and she'll get trounced by the trudge candidate trudge trump candidate and you have to find a lane and stay in it.

>> There was a lot of us who watched when the audit came out and said, there was a train of thought among folks like me who said, Brnovich can do one ever two things and what he should do on the anal analysis of the evidence, it's no longer a story and it's out and he decided to write it.

You know, he sentence doesn't have money and everyday, a news release on Biden.

That's all he has, his name as attorney general.

Pulling in his fate, I'm not sure how much we put to that.

>> Ted: Surprised it is were it is.

>> Absolutely.

>> The audit is what has done him in because he was required to investigate the findings, you know, at the request of senate Karen Fann, and he does have some ethics that apply in his job as a lawyer and he couldn't bring false charges or perp water Katie Hobbs and made the far right ape gri angry and tried to court them by saying he had evidence of fraud, which was it nine cases, I think, and serious vulnerabilities, which made the other side mad.

You tried to have it both ways and you have neither.

>> Why not just double down as an attorney general who said the election was handled and there was a pretty wide lane for that.

You figured Lehman and masters would knock the heck out of each with money.

>> I'll go back to what robson said on the debate, where she says, well, the election was an fairunfair.

Everybody wants a tiny slice of those voters who don't trust the election with or without saying it was really bad.

>> Ted: Far be it from be to a campaign advicer.

But goodness gracious, you can still be a conservative and can be anti-Biden and can say there's an immigration crisis and this and that and I won't perp anyone.

You can be a rusty Bowers.

>> I agree with you and our firm would make no money.

The trump powerhouse, whatever it is, Brnovich got caught in this middle expect and middle.

>> I think it changed in may of last year when trump put out that note that he was a lackluster attorney general.

At that point, you saw him for a change in tone and you saw him beating the path over to fox every single day and there must be a trench between the AG's office and the fox studios.

>> Ted: Obviously, there's a three-person race as we speak but seven-point drop and everybody else a rising is interesting.

Let's stay on mark Brnovich and Donald Trump's lawyers are saying all simpatico and knock it off.

>> A case where I agree with Donald Trump.

I've been watching those ads since, what was it, November, September, around that time last year where he puts out Facebook ads, pictures of him with Donald Trump or pictures of just Donald Trump saying, you know, be a trump defender and you assume you're giving money to Donald Trump.

If you read the fine print, it's money for mark Brnovich who trump called a lack plus ter plus plus lackluster attorney general.

If this had been a private business, I would assume the division of his agency to go after the perpetrator.

>> Ted: That might be inside baseball there, but not a great look for the chief law enforcement officer of the state.

>> Like I said, everybody has to get a little bit of trump and he does have pictures himself with the president and he does agree with the president's policy, quite a lot of them.

I think a cease and and desist letter is to get negative press on Mr. Brnovich, a political ploy.

>> Brnovich should just focus and your column indicates that.

When you're an attorney general, yes.

>> Especially when you're expected to investigate election fraud and fake electors, expect that when that was brought to him, his office would take a look at that and how can he look at that at the same time he has candidates chasing after Donald Trump and it's a huge candidate and has been for a long time.

>> Ted: Bob, let's shift gears and a voucher expansion and go wherever you want and do what you want to do.

>> The opponents think it's going to drain a billion dollars out of the stage coffers and it's a change for the school crowd for decades and we started it with charter schools and there was open enrollment and then we have the STO's, the tax credits and now the vouchers which they've been chipping away at and now everybody gets one.

I think it won't survive.

I've had a hard time believing that the teachers who got out and collected 180,000 or 280,000 signatures four years ago and the voters smacked it down 2-1, they're doing it again and file in a month and six weeks at the most, they'll have the signatures.

>> Ted: 208,2018, it was 65% and overwhelmingly rejected and why did the legislature think, let's do it again?

>> Clearly, many republicans are fixated on this idea and the governor wants school comois and choice and national groups, as well.

The one thing with bob though, 2018 was pre-pandemic.

And that, we've seen so much more criticism of schools and education and not by fault of teacher because a lot of kids doing it for home.

I agree the signatures, they'll get signature, but not quite as easy.

>> I don't disagree.

I think it will be a tighter race.

The republicans have spent the last two years convincing themselves that the last election lost because school choice people didn't want to lock it I in.

The last universal expansion had a knew numerical cap.

I covered that election and nothing to do with the 30,000 cap and the voters didn't know there was a 30,000 cap, except, the 2% of the people who already had vouchers and wanted their buddies to go.

This is going to be tighter, but I am pretty confident votes are going to -- I don't know.

>> Two things they've got going against them that will help the answer voucher people, no accountability and so, great, if you're the kid at phoenix country day, I'm sure you'll get a good education, but what about the fly-by-night school that offers an education for exactly the cost of that voucher and then proceeds to put the money or most of the money into their own stock portfolio and to heck with the kids?

There is no way to account for whether those kids are getting a decent education.

This provides 6500 or 7,000 or whatever it is to the parents of all children, even in private schools.

We gave the wealthy a tax cut and this year, 6500 or $7,000 for the summer vacations.

>> Ted: It's $17,000 a year and now $10,000 a year thanks to this.

>> There's 100,000 of them and estimated 60,000 private school students and this bumps it up and another 40,000 home schooled.

>> Ted: Yes.

>> We have 100,000 kids that on September 26th if this goes into effect, they will Gail for qualify and that's it.

>> I think it's a fair amount of money, like almost 200 million.

>> Just those.

>> Ted: Steve, a little built of pretzel logic in pro pon pro pon audiencespro ponin it.

>> They're worried they'll need more assistance and more money, Ted.

Pretzel logic, yes.

>> Ted: Is that momentum as strong as it was as bob eluded to?

>> Of course there's fatigue and the next year they repeal and replace with a new one.

They're playing games here and I think it's worth mentioning that Ducey waited until the final afternoon of the final day to find this bill which takes ten days off of the 90 days to get the signature and I can't think that helps them and they'll get the signatures easily.

I agree, it won't be as easy of a ride and it won't be 65% and it will be referred and it will be vetoed.

>> You can be sure when they file the signatures, the opponents will run to court and challenge it because that's the game book andness a chance and there's a chance it won't.

>> Ted: There's a judge, he will say wait until we get the vote and we'll stick with the governor and Laurie, we'll start with you.

He vetoed a tax vote and I've never seen so many republicans, lobbyists and leaders in the valley as POed as they are with this move.

>> Every single mayor in the valley signed onto this thing and if you were here pre-'19, you know what it is to live with no infrastructure to get you around with no freeways and we're a fast-growing city and so this transportation tax is about to expire in, I think, December of 2025 and the year to get done or get it on the ballot and it could have been on the November ballot when everybody votes.

They held off, held off, pushing it off to the spring and this was a deal breaker breaker for a few republicans and Democrats who signed off on Ducey's water plan, who signed off on the budget with the expectation and the understanding that he would sign this to put it on the blat.

ballot.

It's to allow voters to simply say whether they want to continue this tax for another 25 years.

>> Ted: For another 25 years, which is a point of point of reference.

The governor had.

>> He said it was 25 years.

There was a paternalistic feel to this veto.

Inflation, what our are families going do?

Not thinking about the fact, the facttax is in effect and there's a dis-indisingenuousness to it.

>> Ted: Numerous times, he was very much in favor of this.

>> The fight at the legislature was interesting.

Maricopa county is the only county in this state that has to get the legislature's approval to put a transportation tax on the budget and the largest -- it's four million people and two-thirds of the state or 65%.

And they needed a two-thirds vote to get this on the ballot and two-thirds of the legislature.

>> Ted: Which means it's not going to happen.

>> They passed it.

The legislature passed it.

>> Ted: That's true.

I'm sorry.

>> They lobbied it.

It took a two-thirds vote in the legislature to send it to Ducey and they worked it the whole session to get it to the governor and to have this, they are really upset.

>> Ted: Laurie, they said it was a tax increase because that was 20 years and this is 25 years.

>> In 25 years, wake me up, but that wouldn't have been a deal changer for the voters.

What I find interesting, he's so interested in being this antitax governor, that he refused to put it in the hands of voters.

This is not, we're raising your taxes.

This was, dear voter, do you want to extend this tax extra or do you want it go away?

If it goes away, you get more back.

It's not a tax increase or anything they were unilaterally doing and when you are sitting in traffic in future years, you'll know that's part of the Ducey legacy, perhaps.

>> The feds are not giving out the money they had been.

Going forward, you're not going to get as much money and the governor is claiming a billion dollars.

>> The legislature put construction for R road and a lot of this goes to maintaining what they already have and, you know, in addition to building light raillightrail and a lot of it is for maintenance.

>> Ted: Would this be something Taylor-robson or Hobbs, would this be something a future governor would sign in the near future?

>> I would be shocked if they wouldn't.

I think this would be a high priority in January, when the new session begins with a new legislature, but, again, they'll have to -- there's going to be a trust issue there and to get those votes they needed, was it two-thirds voted that they need, having been thwarted this year and told, if you vote for my water bill, I'll pass your transportation thing and he didn't.

>> You mentioned a new governor and a lot of new legislative members and redistricting and everything else.

>> May take them two years to wrangle them to get the vote.

>> Ted: Before we go, Dadeson Davidson is running for Congress and he a political ad defending his home from, quote, a dozen angry Democrats in clanhoods.

>> In clanhoods and make the argument that I need more than ten rounds in my magazine in order to protect my family and this is a political unknown who has little money in this race and it's a republican primary and he is probably the third most known candidate out there and he has no ads running and this is a way to jump start his campaign with something shocking and it is shocking.

>> But think of the timing on this thing.

He put this ad out on July 5th July 5th, on his Twitter page with a caption that said make rifles great again.

Not even 24 hours after those people were murdered in highland park at that fourth of July parade.

I can't understand how anyone could do that.

>> No good time to put an ad out.

With the number of mass shootings this year.

I read the wire and the news constantly.

And there's two a week and so if you run that ad, what do you wait, a day?

>> He's one of five republicans running in that district, hoping to vye against Greg Stanton and for right republicans who worship their guns, maybe.

>> This is not an argument I would make, but there's a point to be made as discussing about the AR15 situation.

An African-American man says, wait a second, if I take my guns away, I'm not safe.

If you have the donkey to take it, like these are Democrats.

>> Ted: The Irony, we have twisted Irony and it was a very, very interesting campaign.

You're not running that campaign, are you?

>> Only if you and I do it together.

>> Ted: Panel, thank you.

And that's it for now.

I'm Ted Simons and thank you for joining us and you have a great weekend!

♪♪ >> Ted: Coming up on Cronkite news, the story of a California man who helped to desegregate the sport of surfing and a look at the millennial generation.