♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING THE STATE CORPORATION COMMISSION VOTE TO CENSURE OUTGOING DEMOCRATIC COMMISSIONER ANNA TOVAR.

JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES.

CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF KJZZ RADIO AND WAYNE SCHUTSKY ALSO OF KJZZ RADIO.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

HOWIE, START WITH YOU, WE GOT A CENSURE ON THE CORPORATION COMMISSION, THE LONE DEMOCRAT GIVEN THE OLD WHATEVER.

>> WELL, YOU'VE GOT TWO STORIES, A TECHNICAL QUESTION.

IT IS ILLEGAL TO DISCLOSE ANYTHING YOU'VE HEARD IN EXECUTIVE SESSION, AND THIS ISSUE THAT COME UP ABOUT THE COMPENSATION OF THE DIRECTOR CAME UP IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.

SHE SENT OUT A PUBLIC LETTER ON THIS.

THEREFORE, PERHAPS VIOLATED THAT.

BY THE SAME TOKEN, YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT IF YOU'RE DISCUSSING CHANGES IN PAYMENTS AND TAXPAYER DOLLARS, AND UTILITY SHARE DOLLARS, THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC MATTER AND SHOULDN'T -- THE QUESTION AT WHAT POINT IS THIS AN EXECUTIVE SESSION ISSUE.

WAS THERE POLITICS INVOLVED?

I'M SHOCKED.

TED: YES, THE LONE DEMOCRAT ON THE COMMISSION GETTING THE ATTENTION.

SHE WASN'T CRAZY ABOUT IT AND LET IT BE KNOWN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CORPORATION?

>> I DON'T KNOW SHE'S ADMITTING SHE VIOLATED EXECUTIVE SESSION.

I THINK SHE'S SAYING IT'S ABOVE BOARD AND SHE'S OUTGOING.

NOT GOING TO BE HERE VERY MUCH LONGER.

NOT AS IF IT'S GOING TO AFFECT HER CAREER ON THE CORPORATION COMMISSION, BUT ONE LAST THING, AND IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME SHE'S HAD ISSUES WITH THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS AS LONE DEMOCRAT, THOUGH THAT'S A COINCIDENCE.

I LIKE TO STAY POSITIVE ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

TED: SHE CALLED IT A POLITICAL WITCH-HUNT.

>> SHE FILED OPEN MEETING COMPLAINT AGAINST COLLEAGUES WHICH WAS FOUND THEY VIOLATED OPEN MEETING LAW.

BUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOUND.

THAT SHE SAYS EVERYTHING I SAID IN THE MEETING IS PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE, MENTIONING THE SALARY OF THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ANYONE CAN REQUEST THAT AND GET THAT INFORMATION, AND HER ATTORNEY POINTED OUT THAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONER MENTIONED THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR'S PERFORMANCE IN A POSITIVE LIGHT.

IF CRITICIZING THE PERFORMANCE IS A VIOLATION, IS PRAISING IT ALSO A VIOLATION?

TED: THE COMMISSION WAS THINKING OF ACCEPTING IT TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR REVIEW?

>> THEY DID.

THEY ALLEGE VIOLATING THE EXECUTIVE SESSION WHICH ISN'T STATE LAW, THAT CERTAIN THINGS STAY WITHIN THE MEETINGS AND VIOLATING PERSONNEL CONFIDENTIALITY.

THERE'S DEALS OF STAFF CONTRACTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT PUBLICLY.

UNLESS THAT STAFF MEMBER REQUESTS IT.

INSTEAD OF SENDING IT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO IS A DEMOCRAT, THEY SENT IT OVER TO THE REPUBLICAN COUNTY ATTORNEY, RACHEL MITCHELL.

TED: WASN'T HARASSING INVOLVED AS WELL?

WAYNE?

>> VAGUELY.

THERE IS MENTION OF HARASSING, THEY DON'T SAY WHO.

THEY MENTIONED IN A PREVIOUS MEETING A CURRENT STAFF MEMBER OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE WHO PREVIOUSLY WORKED FOR THEM.

HE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH TO SAY ABOUT THE ALLEGATIONS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WHEN CAMRYN ASKED ABOUT IT, AND SOME ALLEGATION THAT IT'S REFERRING TO THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR THAT PUBLIC COMMENTS AMOUNTED TO HARASSMENT.

TED: CAMRYN, COMMISSIONER TOVAR SAID THAT THE COMMISSION IS RUN BY SPECIAL INTERESTS, THE REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES ARE SCARED OF CRITICISM.

NOT EXCHANGING TOO MANY CHRISTMAS CARDS THIS GO-AROUND?

>> NO, BUT SOUNDS LIKE GOOD OLD POLITICS IN ARIZONA TO ME.

TED: SHE'S OUTGOING, THERE'S NOT MUCH -- HOWIE, THE ELECTIONS PROCEDURES MANUAL, LET'S START WITH WHAT THIS IS AND WHY THERE'S A FLAP?

>> OKAY, UNDER ARIZONA LAW, WE HAVE A SECTION CALLED TITLE 16-C ELECTION CODE, HOW ELECTIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE RUN, ALL THE PROCEDURES, EVERYTHING ELSE.

THE MANUAL IS THE SORT OF HOW TO.

IT'S A GUIDE FOR COUNTY AND STATE ELECTION OFFICIALS.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

HOW DO YOU MAKE CERTAIN THINGS WORK, AND HOW DO YOU INTERPRET THE LAWS?

ADRIAN FONTES IS A SECRETARY OF STATE, CRAFTED THE PROCEDURES MANUAL IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE GOVERNOR AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

HE PUT A FEW THINGS IN THERE, SOME OF THEM ARE TECHNICAL ABOUT SIGNATURE REQUIREMENTS FOR CIRCLARITIES, BUT DID TWO THINGS IN PARTICULAR OFFENSE.

ONE, HE SAID COUNTY SUPERVISORS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO CERTIFY ELECTION RESULTS, NO MATTER WHAT.

HAVE YOU QUESTIONS?

TOO BAD.

YOU ARE REQUIRED TO DO THAT.

WHAT MAKES THAT IMPORTANT IS THE ELECTION PROCEDURES MANUAL HAS THE FORCE OF LAW.

TO GRAB THEIR ATTENTION, IF YOU DON'T CERTIFY THEM, WE WILL DO A STATEWIDE CANVASS AND DISENFRANCHISE COUNTY MEMBERS.

JUDGE BLADE SAID WHERE DID YOU PULL THAT OUT OF?

THERE'S NOTHING IN STATUTE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO DO IT.

I UNDERSTAND YOUR FRUSTRATION AND ABILITY TO MAKE SURE THINGS HAPPEN ON TIME.

GO TO COURT AT THAT TIME.

DON'T TRY TO PRECLUDE IT ALL.

>> OVERSTEPPING AUTHORITY HERE?

>> THIS IS A LONG TIME COMING.

THEY FILED THE LAWSUIT MONTHS AGO AND THE ELECTION HAPPENED ALREADY.

THIS IS PRETTY MUCH AN ALMOST CLEAN VICTORY FOR REPUBLICANS.

THEY ASKED FOR A LOT OF THINGS, MULTIPLE PARTS OF THE EPM WERE UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND THEY HAD TO BRING THE CASE AND FONTES HAS TO CHANGE IT, AND ENJOYING ENFORCING THE PARTS THAT ARE NOT LEGAL.

TED: AND INCLUDES INFRINGING ON THE LEGISLATURE'S AUTHORITY.

>> WE HAVE CHECKS AND BALANCES.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE IS PART OF THE EXECUTIVE, THE LEGISLATURE WRITES THE LAWS.

HE BASICALLY TOOK A LAW THAT WAS THERE AND EXPOUNDED ON, IT WENT BEYOND INTERPRETATION ACCORDING TO THE JUDGE AND CREATED HIS OWN ADDITION TO ENFORCE IT.

>> THERE'S ANOTHER KEY PROVISION THAT CAME UP.

WHAT STATE LAW SAYS, IF, IN FACT, YOU FIND OUT THAT SOMEONE HAS MOVED, YOU IMMEDIATELY TAKE AWAY THEIR VOTER REGISTRATION.

FONTES WAS PUTTING ON SOMETHING INACTIVE STATUS.

YOU CAN STILL VOTE IF YOU SHOW UP IN PERSON, AND HE SAID, WELL, THAT'S WHAT THE NATIONAL VOTER REGISTRATION ACT REQUIRES, WHICH IS FEDERAL LAW, AND A JUDGE SAID, NO, YOU DON'T GET TO DETERM THAT FEDERAL LAW TRUMPS STATE LAW.

YOU GOT A PROBLEM?

YOU TAKE IT TO A COURT.

YOU DON'T DECIDE THAT.

YOU'RE THE SECRETARY OF STATE, YOU DON'T HAVE A BLACK ROBE.

TED: A RESPONSE FROM THE SECRETARY OF STATE?

>> TOLD ME NO COMMENT.

PROBABLY BECAUSE IT WAS A BIT OF A KICK IN THE PANTS AND NEXT TIME THEY HAVE TO BOW DOWN TO WHAT THE JUDGE SAID FOR OUR NEXT ELECTION.

TED: YEAH, WAYNE, VOUCHER REIMBURSEMENT.

TOM HORNE HAS A PLAN, 2,000 BUCKS -- WE'LL GET TO IT LATER, AND LOT OF FOLKS RAISED EYEBROWS WHEN HE ANNOUNCED HIS PLAN FOR THIS, AND THE GOVERNOR BASICALLY SAYS, NO, WE'RE NOT HAPPY WITH SOMETHING.

WHAT IS ALL THIS ABOUT?

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THE SHOW BEFORE, THIS GOES BACK TO THE BACKLOG, FOLKS WAITING FOR APPROVALS OF MONEY THEY SPENT OUT OF THEIR POCKET FOR CHILDREN IN THE ESA, THE VOUCHER PROGRAM, AND WAITING FOR THE DEPARTMENT TO SAY, YEP, THAT'S GOOD, HERE'S YOUR MONEY.

AND HORN HAS BLAMED A HOST OF REASONS FOR THAT, ONE OF THE REASONS TO GET OUT OF THE MONTHS LONG BACKLOG IS SMALLER PURCHASES UNDER $2,000, THAT'S APPROVED, WE'LL CHECK IT LATER.

THE SMALLER PURCHASES, LESS OF A CHANCE FOR FRAUD AND WE'LL CATCH IT WHEN WE AUDIT IT EVENTUALLY, THE GOVERNOR AND DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING YOU'RE OPENING THE DOOR NOW, TELLING FRAUDSTERS HOW TO GET AWAY WITH IT.

TED: THIS IS LIKE CIRCLE-K SAY IT'S LESS THAN 100 BUCKS, WE'LL GET TO IT LATER.

>> THERE'S A CERTAIN PRECEDENT IN STATE LAWS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S A LOT OF BILLS THAT THE STATE PAYS.

SOMETHING COMES INTO THE DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, COMES INTO PURCHASING, OKAY, WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO INVESTIGATE IT, DIG OUT THE CONTRACT OUT OF THE FILES AND DO IT, AND WE'LL CATCH UP WITH IT LATER.

THE PROBLEM BECOMES THIS IS A PROGRAM THAT WE'VE SEEN AND TALKED ABOUT ON THE SHOW WHERE FRAUD HAS BEEN DISCOVERED.

YOU HAVE KIDS WHO DIDN'T EXIST.

GHOST CHILDREN.

HAVE YOU FUNDING FOR THINGS THAT SHOULDN'T BE FUNDED.

NOW WHETHER A GRAND PIANO IS PART A LEGITIMATE MUSIC PROGRAM?

HARD TO SAY.

IT'S BECOME SO PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE THERE ARE NO CLEAR STANDARDS IN TERMS OF WHAT CONSTITUTES LEGITIMATE CONSTITUTIONAL THINGS, THE PREAPPROVAL WAS TO HAVE SOMEBODY SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING DO THIS AHEAD OF TIME AS OPPOSED TO SAYING SPEND IT AND THEN WE'LL DECIDE LATER.

TED: EXPLAIN IF THERE'S A BACKLOG NOW AND YOU CAN'T REVIEW IT NOW, HOW YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO REVIEW ALL OF THESE LESS THAN $2,000 CLAIMS LATER?

>> WELL, I THINK THEY'RE HOPING THAT SOMEDAY DOWN THE LINE, THEY GET MORE STAFF OR SOMETHING AND HAVE MORE RESOURCES TO DO THIS, WHICH IS WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BE SATISFIED WITH THAT ARGUMENT, AND I THINK THEY'RE CONCERNED THAT PARENTS OR FRAUDSTERS ARE GOING TO BE, LET'S BANK ON THEM NEVER FIGURING IT OUT AND I'LL GET $2,000 WORTH OF STUFF AND MAYBE THEY'LL NEVER CATCH ME AND MAYBE SAY OOPS, BUT NOT PUT ME TO JAIL OR ANYTHING.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> SUPERINTENDENT HORNE IS WORKING WITH REPUBLICANS TO CRAFT A BILL ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO PUMP UP STAFFING.

WHAT HE SAYS IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM, HE'S TAKEN SHOTS AT THE DEMOCRATS CRITICIZING HIM.

HE SAID THAT SOME OF THE RULES KRIS MAYES ASKED HIM TO ENFORCE MAKING SURE PAYMENTS WERE FOR APPROPRIATE ITEMS IS HELPING WITH THE BACKLOG.

HE SAID A RULE APPROVED BY THE GOVERNOR, WHICH WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM TO USE CLASSWALLET, A THIRD-PARTY VENDOR TO APPROVE THE TUITION PAYMENTS IS CREATING BACKLOG FOR APPROVING PAYMENTS.

IF YOU GET MAD AT ME ABOUT THIS, LOOK AT ISSUES THAT CAUSED IT.

>> LOOK AT THE NATURE -- IF YOU WANT MONEY FROM THE STATE, IF YOU'RE A PARENT AND SAY I'D LIKE TO BUY CURRICULUM MATERIAL, AND THE STATE SECOND-GUESSING.

WELL, IS THIS PROPER CURRICULUM?

SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE HANDLED.

IT'S A RISK FOR THE PARENTS, BUT IT'S THE NATURE OF DOING THIS.

WE'VE GOT THIS PROBLEM IS CLOSE TO 100,000 KIDS NOW, CLOSE TO 10% OF THE KIDS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

SAME WAY PUBLIC SCHOOLS DO WITH EXPENDITURES AND THEY GET AUDITED.

TED: HOW FAR WHEN WE START THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION, GETTING MORE RESOURCES, MORE MONEY IN THERE, MORE STAFF?

>> THE QUESTION IS ARE THE DEMOCRATS WHO HATE UNIVERSAL EXPANSION HIT WITH THE IDEA OF FRAUD, OR GIVING RESOURCES TO THE ESA PROGRAM IS A NON-STARTER.

WE HATE IT BECAUSE WE HATE THE ESA PROGRAM.

IF THIS IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE IT BETTER AND PREVENT FRAUD.

THAT'S THE QUESTION.

>> THE QUESTION, AND YOU'RE HINTING AT IT.

WHAT DO THE DEMOCRATS WANT IN RETURN?

SOME OF THE STUFF IS A NON-STARTER, CAP ON A NUMBER OF KIDS.

MAYBE THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THEY CAN PUT IN THERE IN TERMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES.

TED: THE GOVERNOR CALLS IT DEEPLY TROUBLING AND DERELICTION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION'S RESPONSIBILITIES.

>> THAT'S FUNNY WHERE HER OWN AGENTS HAVE BEEN ACCUSED IN AUDIT.

TED: SHE'S FOCUSED ON THIS HERE.

>> OKAY.

TED: JUSTINE WADSACK IS BACK IN THE NEWS AGAIN, AND CAN'T QUITE GET THEM TO LEAVE HER ALONE.

>> THAT'S HOW SHE WOULD PUT IT.

IF YOU REMEMBER, SHE GOT PULLED OVER FOR SPEEDING IN TUCSON, ARGUED LEGISLATIVE IMMUNITY THAT THE DEPARTMENT WAITED UNTIL AFTER THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION WAS OVER TO SERVE HER WITH THAT AND CHALLENGING THE ABILITY AND THE JUDGE SAID NO, THIS CAN GO FORWARD.

TED: 71 MILES AN HOUR IN A 35 ZONE?

>> THAT'S WHAT THEY CLAIM.

SHE'S SAYING THERE IS NO RADAR EVIDENCE.

I DON'T REMEMBER, WHEN I'VE BEEN STOPPED FOR RADAR, THE COP SAYING TAKE A LOOK AT MY RADAR GUN.

WHAT EVIDENCE THERE IS A PIECE OF IT.

LEGISLATIVE IMMUNITY IS DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO MAKE SURE THAT A ROGUE DEPUTY SHERIFF CAN'T KEEP A LAWMAKER FROM GOING TO THE CAPITOL DURING THE SESSION.

IT IS NOT IMMUNITY FROM BEING CHARGED.

IT IS NOT IMMUNITY FROM BEING ARRESTED FOR CERTAIN SERIOUS CRIMES.

IT'S DESIGNED TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO LET YOUR CIVIL CASES AND MINOR CRIMINAL CASES BE HELD IN ABEYANCE, AND IT'S NOT A TRUE IMMUNITY, IT'S A DEFERRAL.

>> SOUNDS LIKE HER ATTORNEY CAME TO THE JUDGE AND WAS LIKE, YOUR HONOR, LAWMAKERS GET AWAY WITH STUFF ALL THE TIME.

WHY CAN'T YOU BE COOL?

AND THE JUDGE WAS LIKE, NO, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT BETTER.

THE FACT THAT LAWMAKERS GET AWAY WITH STUFF DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GET AWAY WITH STUFF.

SO THEY REJECTED THAT ARGUMENT.

BUT IT'S A GREAT ARGUMENT.

I WOULD LOVE TO SAY THAT IN COURT.

I WON'T.

TED: I THINK PUBLIC EMPLOYMENT IS NOT A SANCTUARY FOR CRIME.

>> BUT WHAT A CONCEPT.

TED: IT IS.

WE CAN GO DEEP IN THE BOOKS ON THAT.

IS THERE POLITICAL FUTURE FOR MS. WADSACK?

>> GIVEN THE NUMBER OF LAWMAKERS WE SEE RETURN TO THE CAPITOL AFTER A HIATUS EVERY YEAR, INCLUDING OUR NEW SPEAKER WHO HAD SCANDALS OF HIS OWN.

I HATE TO SAY NEVER, BUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, SHE DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE DOING ANYTHING TO ENDEAR HERSELF.

TED: DO YOU SEE A FUTURE FOR HER?

>> I THINK I DO.

SHE'S FAIRLY YOUNG AND FAIRLY INGRATIATED WITH A CERTAIN WING OF CPUSA.

I'VE HEARD RUMORS THAT I WON'T GET INTO, I'VE HEARD RUMORS OF THE RETURN OF WADSACK.

>> DISTRICT 17, THIS IS THE ONE, IT WAS CRAFTED TO REPUBLICANS AT VINCE LEACH'S REQUEST, AND GOT PRIMARIED BY JUSTINE WADSACK, AND THE TWO VERY CONSERVATIVE PEOPLE LOST, JUSTINE AND CORY McGARR, THE REPUBLICANS LOST THEIR RACE.

I DON'T KNOW THE DISTRICT WANTS JUSTINE BACK JUST YET.

TED: NOT QUITE YET.

>> HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS.

NOT THE FIRST TIME WE SEE A LAWMAKER SWITCHING DISTRICTS.

LEAVING TUCSON EVEN TO RUN ELSEWHERE.

TED: THERE MIGHT BE GREENER PASTURES ELSEWHERE.

HOWIE GATEWAY PUNDIT.

WHAT IS GATEWAY PUNDIT AND WHY IS THE FUTURE VOICE OF AMERICA QUOTH GATEWAY PUNDIT?

>> I CANNOT SAY ON A SHOW THAT BROADCASTS ON FEDERAL AIRWAVES WHAT I THINK OF GATEWAY PUNDIT.

GATEWAY PUNDIT IS BASICALLY ONE REPORTER, THERE'S OTHER REPORTERS AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO PULL STUFF OUT OF A CERTAIN BODY ORIFICE TO HELP CONSERVATIVE CAUSES AND RUN WITH IT, FACTS DON'T SEEM TO MATTER.

THE LOCAL REPORTER WAS A FULL-TIME CHEERING SECTION FOR KARI LAKE, WHEN SHE WAS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, WHEN SHE WAS RUNNING FOR SENATE, AND WHAT HAPPENED NOW IS THERE'S THIS CLAIM THAT SOMEHOW HOMELAND SECURITY IS GOING TO ARREST KATIE HOBBS REFUSING TO COOPERATE WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS NOT A CRIME IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHICH HOMELAND SECURITY, THE NEW HEAD SAID, DIDN'T HAPPEN.

BUT THIS IS ONE OF THE VAST CONSPIRACY THINGS FROM A WOMAN WHO THINKS SHE WAS ELECTED GOVERNOR, AND STILL THINKS SHE WAS ELECTED SENATOR.

SO IT'S ALL PART OF THAT GRAND CONSPIRACY THEORY.

>> I THINK THE CLAIM WAS THAT WAS GOING TO HAVE HER ARRESTED ON DAY ONE OF THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY.

>> FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO AREN'T TOO ONLINE LIKE US, IT WAS BASED ON A POST ON X OR TWITTER FROM AN ACCOUNT THAT CARRIED HIS NAME BUT NOT AFFILIATED WITH HIM, BUT GATEWAY PUNDIT PLAYED FAST AND LOOSE WITH THESE RULES AND THEY QUOTED IT AS IF IT WAS STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH AND THEN IT GETS RETWEETED AND POSTED AND PEOPLE READ IT AND THINK IT'S THE TRUTH.

TED: AND AGAIN, IT'S GARDEN VARIETY POLITICAL NONSENSE, EXCEPT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE VOICE OF AMERICA.

SHE MAY THINK SHE'S WHATEVER, BUT THIS MAKES IT A STORY WHEN SHE'S QUOTING THINGS THAT APPARENTLY HAVE NO BASIS?

>> EXACTLY.

I THINK TRUMP DOES SOMETHING SIMILAR.

HE SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH RIGHT-WING SOURCES THAT GET INFORMATION FROM SIMILAR PLACES AND THAT FLOWS THROE THROUGH HIM AND HIS DECISION-MAKING.

IF HE IS SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING KARI LAKE TO LEAD VOICE OF AMERICA, IT SPREADS, THAT AND THERE'S SORT OF THIS PUSH, I WAS AT AMERICAFEST RECENTLY.

THERE IS ALL THESE RIGHT-WING PODCASTS AND ENCOURAGES YOU NOT TO WATCH OUR MEDIA OR LISTEN TO IT BUT ONLY LISTEN TO YOUR OWN WORLD VIEW, AND THEN ALSO SUPPORT POLITICIANS WHO ARE ONLY LISTENING TO THE SAME WORLD VIEW.

TED: AMERICAFEST IS?

>> IT'S A BIG FAR RIGHT CONVENTION HOSTED BY TURNING POINT USA.

TED: ALL RIGHT.

>> THIS GOES TO THE ISSUE OF KARI LAKE, WHOSE CONNECTION WITH THE TRUTH SOMETIMES IS A LITTLE ON THE SLIPPERY SIDE.

HAVING HER HEAD AN AGENCY IS NOT LIKE SHE'S GOING TO BE THE PERSON ON THE AIR, NOT LIKE SHE'S GOING TO BE ON FOX 10 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT HAVING HER MAKE POLICY DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT NEWS ABOUT AMERICA IS SPREAD TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, AND IT'S THAT LACK OF CONNECTION WITH REALITY THAT IS TRULY SCARY.

I RECOGNIZE VOA, COLD WAR STUFF, BROADCASTING THE BEST OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT IT'S BEEN PRETTY INSULATED FROM POLITICAL INTERFERENCE UNTIL NOW.

TED: AND THE AGE OF THE INTERNET, YOU GOT TO WONDER HOW INFLUENTIAL VOICE OF AMERICA STILL IS.

>> THEY ACTUALLY NOW HAVE INTERNET SERVICES AND YouTube SERVICES.

TED: ALONG WITH EVERYBODY ELSE AND THEIR BROTHER.

>> THERE ARE FOLKS THAT DEPEND ON IT.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

YOU COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT IT'S IRRELEVANT.

IF YOU WANT TO GO DOWN THAT RAT HOLE, YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE RELEVANCE OF PUBLIC BROADCASTING?

TED: NO, I DON'T, HOWIE.

I DON'T SEE THE CONNECTION THERE AT ALL.

PLEASE.

>> WE'VE SEEN AS CAMRYN MENTIONED, THE INFORMATION ECOSYSTEM STARTED WITH PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THE LEGITIMACY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BEHIND THEM.

HOW MANY PEOPLE LISTEN TO VOICE OF AMERICA?

I WON'T KNOW.

IT'S NOT A GOOD THING IF A FEDERALLY BACKED MEDIA ORGANIZATION IS RUN BY SOMEONE WHO THOUGHTLESSLY SPREAD MISINFORMATION.

TED: WAYNE, STICKING WITH YOU, KYRSTEN SINEMA GAVE A FAREWELL SPEECH ON THE SENATE FLOOR, 15 MINUTES AND DEFENDED THE FILIBUSTER, A GREAT PORTION OF THE SPEECH.

>> IT WASN'T SURPRISING, ANYONE WHO'S FOLLOWED THE SENATOR IN RECENT YEARS.

SHE WAS NOT -- SHE WAS PROUD ABOUT HOW SHE HANDLE HERSELF, SHE DEFENDED THE FILIBUSTER, WORKED ACROSS THE.

I'M SHE ASKED PEOPLE TO GUARD AGAINST THE IMPULSE, BE INSULAR AND FOLLOW MY LEAD, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM.

TED: WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF -- 15 MINUTES, HERE'S WHAT I DID, BUT MOSTLY HERE'S WHAT I ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN, THE FILIBUSTER.

>> 15 MINUTES OF FAME, TOUTING HER EXPERIENCE AND REMINDING THEM THEY SHOULD BE WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE.

PEOPLE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO AGREE EVERYTHING ON BUT WITH THE FILIBUSTER, IN PARTICULAR, IT'S TEMPTING TO GET RID OF IT TO RAM STUFF THROUGH.

IF YOU DO THAT, AND THESE ARE HER OPINIONS, IF YOU DO THAT AND DESTROY IT, YOU'RE ALLOWING MORE POSSIBILITY OF AUTHORITARIAN CONTROL OR ONE-PARTY CONTROL, AND NOT TRYING AS HARD TO APPEAL TO ALL OF THE COUNTRY OR ALL OF THE PEOPLE REPRESENTED IN THE CHAMBER.

TED: REAL QUICKLY, WE DID A SEGMENT ON THIS YESTERDAY, BUT HER LEGACY.

ONE TERM, STARTING AS A DEMOCRAT, LEAVING AS INDEPENDENT, AND HAVING NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER -- WHAT'S HER LEGACY?

>> I FIND HER FASCINATING.

NOT JUST THE FLASHY OUTFITS OR THE FACT SHE START IN THE GREEN PARTY AND ENDED UP HERE, SHE MAKES SO MANY HEADLINES AND HARD AT WORK CONNECTING PEOPLE ON ISSUES BUT SHE'S ALSO SO HATED AND HAS SO MUCH INFLUENCE, I FIND HER JOURNEY FASCINATING.

I'M HOPING THEY MAKE A MOVIE ABOUT IT OR SOMETHING.

TED: LEGACY, HOWIE?

>> LET'S START WITH THE SPEECH.

NOBODY LIKES -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY NOBODY LIKES HER.

THE DEMOCRATS DON'T TRUST HER BECAUSE SHE STARTED OUT AS GREEN PARTY, LIVING IN A TRAILER, EVERYTHING ELSE.

I'M FOR THE LITTLE PEOPLE.

I COVERED HER WHEN SHE WAS IN THE STATEHOUSE, AND DOESN'T WANT TO VOTE WITH HIM.

THE REPUBLICANS DON'T TRUST HER BECAUSE THEY SAY THAT'S PART OF THE UNIPARTY THING, SOME OF THEM DIDN'T TRUST JOHN McCAIN.

I'M NOT SURE WHO'S GOING TO LISTEN TO THAT COMMENT ABOUT THE FILIBUSTER.

>> I DESCRIBED HER LEGACY, SHE PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN SOME OF PRESIDENT BIDEN'S BIGGEST VICTORIES, INFRASTRUCTURE AND JOB ACT, AND PLAYED A KEY IF NOT THE KEY ROLE IN KILLING HIS BIGGEST PRIORITIES.

SHE REPRESENTS THE DICHOTOMY, THE DEMOCRATS, WHY SO MANY DISLIKE HER BUT TO IGNORE THE ROLE, THE BIPARTISANSHIP SHE SHOWED DID PLAY, IN HUGE LEGISLATIVE SUCCESSES WOULD BE DISINGENUOUS.

TED: A FEW MINUTES LEFT HERE.

WE'RE ROUNDING OUT A YEAR.

WHAT A YEAR.

THE MOST MEMORABLE STORY THAT YOU COVERED THIS YEAR, CAMRYN, START WITH YOU?

>> YOU MIGHT THEY IT COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE ABORTION BEING REPEALED AND REINSTATED A DIFFERENT WAY.

I INTERPRETED THIS AS WHAT WAS YOUR FAVORITE THING THAT HAPPENED?

PLUTO BECOMING THE STATE PLANET.

THAT WAS BIZARRE AND I GOT TO SPEND WAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THE STORY AND GO TO FLAGSTAFF.

TED: A LITTLE RESPITE FROM THE OTHER STUFF.

>> YEAH, WHY NOT?

TED: PLUTO IS YOUR BIG STORY.

>> IT'S GOING TO BE ON HER TOMBSTONE.

TED: WAYNE, MOST MEMORABLE STORY AND WHY.

>> I'LL TAKE THE BAIT AND EVERYTHING AROUND IT, I REMEMBER SHOWING UP EARLY TO THE SENATE FLOOR, I BELIEVE IT WAS, ONE DAY, AND SENATOR FARNSWORTH IN THE GALLERY WITH A BUNCH OF SUPPORTERS BELTING OUT HYMNS AND THAT ENCAPSULATES -- THERE WAS A LOT OF RAUCOUSNESS, EMOTIONS, PEOPLE SHARING PERSONAL MEDICAL STORIES ON THE FLOOR, AND ULTIMATELY WE SAW WHAT MAYBE PEOPLE DIDN'T THINK WAS POSSIBLE WHICH IS REPUBLICANS, A FEW COMING OVER, JOINING WITH DEMOCRATS TO REPEAL THE LAW.

TED: HOWIE, THE MOST MEMORABLE STORY YOU COVERED?

>> EXTENSION OF THAT, 2022, SUPREME COURT REPEALS ROE V. WADE, MARK BRNOVICH GETS A JUDGE TO RULE WEEK GO BACK TO THE 1864 LAW, NUMBER OF ABORTIONS DROPS TO ZERO.

OKAY, WE'LL DO THE 15 WEEK LAW.

STATE SUPREME COURT SAYS NO, THE 1864 LAW TAKES EFFECT.

THE LEGISLATURE REPEALS, SUPREME COURT AGREES TO STAY THEIR DECISION, ALLOWS THE REPEAL TO TAKE EFFECT WHICH CULMINATES WITH APPROVAL OF PROP 139.

THE WHIPLASH IS FASCINATING.

TED: AS THE ONLY PERSON WHO DID NOT PICK THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC, GO BACK TO THE PARTICULAR TOPIC.

I FIND IT INTERESTING WE GOT PLUTO, THE ABORTION ISSUE.

>> THEY'RE ON THE SAME LEVEL.

TED: TRUMP WINS ARIZONA, GALLEGO WINS A SENATE SEAT.

ARIZONA GOES BACK TO A RED SHADE OF PURPLE.

ALMOST LIKE IT'S DISTANT HISTORY.

>> YEAH, BUT I THINK ABORTION IS SOMETHING MAYBE THAT THE DEMOCRATS BANK ON TOO HARD AS WHAT WAS GOING TO HELP THEM IN THAT ELECTION AND IT DIDN'T.

TED: AN INTERESTING POINT.

THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A LOT OF COATTAILS AND DIDN'T SEE ALL THAT MUCH.

>> NO, IT WAS A MATTER OF THERE WERE A LOT OF MODERATE REPUBLICANS, INDEPENDENT VOTERS WHO VOTED FOR PROP 139 AND VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP, AND I THINK DEMOCRATS PUT TOO MANY EGGS IN THE BASKET THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE UP AND DOWN THE BALLOT ON THIS AND THAT'S NOT HOW ARIZONA WORKS.

>> AND WEAK DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT KATIE HOBBS AND KRIS MAYES AND ADRIAN FONTES, THEY WERE RUNNING AGAINST PEOPLE WHO WERE ABSOLUTE IDIOTS, I KNOW YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO SAY THAT, BUT IT'S TRUE.

DIDN'T HAVE STATEWIDE RACES ON THE CORPORATION COMMISSION, SO WE HAD TRUMP, AND TRUMP RAN A MUCH BETTER CAMPAIGN, YOU ALSO HAD TURNING POINT USA TURNING OUT THE REPUBLICAN VOTE, SO IT WASN'T A SURPRISE.

THE FACT THAT TRUMP WON AND THE LEGISLATURE REMAINED IN THE REPUBLICAN HANDS.

>> TRUMP WINNING, ABORTION RIGHTS ENSHRINED, YOU HAD A DEMOCRAT WINNING A SENATE SEAT AND STRONGER MEASURE PASS.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.