This is a production of WEDU PBS, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Sarasota.

Coming up, spending at Alligator Alcatraz may be costing taxpayers more than $1 million a day.

The data coming from FEMA.

Florida's governor picks a new chief financial officer, and he is ramping up DOGE audits of local governments.

And will Brightline's high speed passenger train come to Tampa Bay after all?

Investors have doubts after published reports on its finances and ridership.

These stories and more are next on Florida This Week.

[uptempo music] Welcome back everybody.

I'm Lissette Campos.

Joining our panel this week, we have Thomas Scott, former Tampa councilman and Hillsborough County commissioner.

He is now a district five candidate, and he is a Democrat.

Mitch Perry, senior reporter for the Florida Phoenix.

Natalie King, vice president of RSA Consulting Group and a Republican.

And Colbi Edmonds, regional reporter for the Tampa Bay Times.

Thank you all for joining us.

It's been three and a half weeks since the first group of immigrant detainees arrived at Alligator Alcatraz, Florida's migrant detention center that is deep in the Everglades.

Now, new records are showing the price that Florida taxpayers are paying.

And those numbers are raising plenty of eyebrows.

Take a look.

In just the last 30 days, Florida has spent more than $200 million building the facility, and most of the money went to no bid contracts.

State officials had insisted that infrastructure was already there, but documents appear to paint a different picture.

Asphalt was poured, equipment was flown in, guard towers were built, all of it under a disaster declaration.

According to new FEMA data obtained by the Miami Herald, taxpayers are footing the bill to the tune of approximately $245 per bed per day at full capacity.

That's roughly $1.2 million daily to house detainees.

The projected cost for a year $450 million.

State officials maintain that FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security will pick up a large part of the bill.

However, federal filings show that Florida has not yet applied for any reimbursement.

Governor Ron DeSantis defends the spending as necessary.

This as lawsuits are stacking up critics ranging from environment groups and immigration advocates to lawyers for detainees and their families continue to question not only the price tag, but the location, alleged poor conditions, possible human rights violations, and what critics call a lack of legislative oversight after last year's devastating hurricane season.

Experts are also questioning if the facility, made mostly of tents, may need evacuations or costly reinforcements if and when a major storm rolls in.

Mitch, I'd like to start with you.

How do you see this story developing?

There are so many layers to it.

Yeah, you had a great setup there.

It was said we're still you know, it's not even a full month into this project.

And this is, you know, Donald Trump's promise for mass immigration.

You know, deportations is this is a symbol of it right now.

So however people feel about that plan overall, I think you're seeing what's happening there at Alligator Alcatraz.

You mentioned we are learning more every day about what's going on there.

And, you know, this is under a declaration of emergency that was first set out back in January of 2023.

Actually, it has been extended 16 times since.

You know, you talk about lack of oversight.

I know the Florida House Republicans, were proud that they challenged DeSantis earlier this year.

We're not hearing much from them right now, essentially.

And also, we've heard, I think, the reported that there is supposed to be an audit each year.

This goes on this emergency situation.

That should have been at least two audits.

That has not happened yet.

They really don't have a good excuse why that hasn't.

So, um, there's a lot that we're we're still learning about.

You mentioned there's several lawsuits.

The ACLU of Florida has filed one because they say attorneys cannot get access to their detainees.

Uh, and you know that that is a big deal.

DeSantis was asked about that this week.

And he said, well, I don't really know about that.

I know that they're set up to do that.

They are set to do that.

Of course, this is not supposed to be a place where they're supposed to stay that long, right?

Theoretically, they're going to be adjudicated and either deported out or let back into American society.

So, uh, again, a lot of questions as we go forward here.

And when you when you talk to folks in the community, whether they are Republican, Democrat, nonparty affiliated did it.

There is a lot of tension in this.

No one feels like.

No one seems to feel a certain way.

There's a lot of nuances in this.

As the Republican representative and the Democrat representative here on the panel, I'd like to to get your opinion on this.

Thomas, I'd like to start with you, if I may.

I think the big issue is, is that we're taking taxpayer dollars that we were told were going to be supplied by the federal government, and that has not happened.

So a lot of people are very upset about that.

Plus, the fact when you start thinking about the number of people that you are housing that you've got to take care of versus the existing need through Medicaid and through children advocacy and programs that are very much needed, more so than spending over $200 million on this project and annually over $400 million dollars.

So there's a lot of concern about that.

And, Natalie, on the other side, Republican voters say we voted for immigration controls.

Um, and this is just part of that.

Give us your opinion on that.

Well, I think that is true.

I think for us Republicans who voted for this, we want to make sure that we have a secure border.

Um, having a secure border also means that we need to address the issues of those who have already come across this border.

So it is a lot of money, but it is a cost of having an open border.

Um, and so the cost long term, beyond having to house these individuals and getting them deported back to their home countries, there's there's a cost to them being here as well.

And so there is an offset to that.

So you know, no not yet.

Have we received funding from the federal government.

But FEMA does have 650 or so million dollars that is set aside for that shelter fund.

And so I expect, as Mitch said, we've only been doing this for a few weeks now.

So maybe that application hasn't gone in yet, but it is coming and it will happen.

And I think evidence of, you know, the commitment that the federal government has is that our president was there at the site with our governor and with a presidential, you know, our governor's candidate to, you know, Byron Donalds, to give acknowledgment of this.

One of the things that reporters have pointed out when they're covering this is that the documents itemizing the cost and the deliverables for this were taken down from the state website, and instead it's been replaced by it's a one page.

It says the name of the vendor, so to speak, and the amount that was charged and then the date that it was signed.

There's no longer this itemized listing of things, and many of them find that unusual.

Um, well, you know, the thing is, we're going to talk about this in a moment about the DOGE, uh, effort.

That's all about accountability, theoretically.

So why not accountability for the executive branch here, right?

And that's why, I think when you mentioned this issue about some of these documents being taken off the website, which is supposed to be publicly available for all to see, to strip some of that out is like, what are you doing?

What are you hiding?

The governor talks about that with some of the local lawmakers they say they should be proud of.

Like what they're spending nothing to be shy of here.

And I think some of those local lawmakers will agree with that.

So let's see the same thing when it comes to what they're doing here.

Interesting.

You know, I asked DeSantis he was here last week at a press conference, and they talked about having a second facility at Camp Blanding.

And that may not happen now.

Or at least there's no big urgency.

We've been thinking about that for for a while...right?

And then maybe a third facility.

And there's no real talk about that right now, because Alligator Alcatraz is not completely filled right now.

And he said there's no reason to go start building something up there if we don't really need it.

So he is so as we know.

So top, you know, this is the biggest thing for him.

He had that special session.

He wanted to start in January to prepare for the Trump administration coming in doing this.

So uh, whether we'll really need more also remains to be seen.

Colbi.

Yeah, I mean, I think kind of building off of that, especially in the wake of reports this year about Hope Florida and, um, you know, some misspending at the in within the DeSantis administration.

I think that reporters are really trying to approach the story with an accountability lens and have continued to struggle getting access to the facility have struggled to make contact with detainees.

And so I think also keeping in mind those efforts to minimize federal spending and government spending in general, I think that, yeah, reporters are kind of especially keeping an eye on the money aspect of it and transparency, um, to help figure out what really is going on, especially since it's been so much in such a short amount of time.

And even some supporters have said some supporters of Alligator Alcatraz have said transparency is a good thing.

It will help explain what's going on there.

And you know, when they look at the numbers, $78.5 million spent on hiring a warden, camp managers, correctional officers, I.T.

workers, you've got $22 million spent.

A St. Pete based company came in and installed all the portable toilets.

The shower trailers, 25.6 million spent on the site prep, civil engineering.

I mean, those are not numbers that, um, that seem inflated to supporters given the magnitude of the project.

So on the other side, you have even supporters saying why?

Why not show the detailed listing of what's being sent that would inspire more confidence in the process?

Yeah, absolutely.

Again, we're seeing more transparency.

And, you know, overall this bigger issue of the immigration crackdown.

You know, interesting that President Trump's numbers have gone down somewhat on this issue.

Now that is absolutely right.

Immigration was top along with inflation last year.

Joe Biden I mean, the Trump administration is doing an incredible job at stopping people coming across the border.

That is a fact.

The statistics show that.

What a lot of folks are having an issue with, of course, is basically anybody who's status legally is questionable is being detained seemingly, Right, because, um, and it's more and more than people, obviously, who have done criminal offenses.

And Tom Homan was here in town a couple weeks ago at the Charlie Kirk event at the Tampa Convention Center.

He basically said flat out like, if everybody's on the table here.

So, you know, it's kind of conflicting where Americans are at on this issue.

I think Americans absolutely knew that this was a problem in terms of mass immigration here.

But the way the Trump administration is handling it, I think that there's some questions there.

And this is only going to get bigger, though, right?

The big beautiful bill included a lot of money for ICE, more money than they've ever had before.

So this is not slowing down.

And that ICE conversation is certainly one for another day.

We're going to move on to our next topic.

Florida has a new chief financial officer, and now that CFO, along with the governor, are leaning into Florida DOJ's efforts, their sights are set on two Democratic led municipalities.

Take a look.

Governor Ron DeSantis named state Senator Blaise Ingoglia of Spring Hill as the state's new chief financial officer, and Ingoglia got right to work.

On Tuesday, he announced that Florida's Department of Government Efficiency, also known as Florida DOGE, will conduct on site audits of Broward County and the City of Gainesville starting July 31st.

An official letters.

The state ordered both local governments to turn over access to their books, everything from tax rolls and payroll to funding for diversity, equity and inclusion programs and homeless initiatives.

Local officials were reminded that not complying could cost them $1,000 per item per day in fines.

Why the audits?

The state points to sharp increases in property taxes and growing budgets without major population gains.

The letter sent to Broward County cited a roughly $450 million jump in ad valorem collection since 2020, and despite population growth of under 5%, there was a $1.2 billion operating budget increase in Gainesville.

The state flagged an 80% increase in property taxes, adding an extra $90 million annually over four years.

Broward County Commissioner Steve Geller pushed back, calling the audits politically targeting Democrat led regions.

Geller also noted that the costs are largely tied to airports, seaports, public safety and new mandates from the state like homeless encampment removal, an order that came without extra funding to comply.

And looking ahead, state officials suggest that more audits are coming soon.

Miami-Dade County has been mentioned as possibly the next local government to be audited.

And Natalie, I'd like to start with you and your response to all of this.

So, you know, I think that if you look across the state, there are actually communities that are actually asking for support in doing these type of audits.

I mean, Jacksonville came out in April and, you know, had a council member ask for the support to do this because I think if we want transparency, if you are good fiscal stewards of the dollars that you're collecting from the taxpayers, you would want to partner with the state to make sure that those dollars are being used effectively.

And we can state that some of those growths in our costs are due to inflation.

They're due to, you know, making sure that our wages are appropriately set at the county and city levels.

They could be airports and seaports, but they're also are examples, like a Rose Bowl float that they paid $800,000 for.

So, you know, I don't know about you guys, but when I do my budget at home, um, there's always some fat to trim.

And I think that, you know, if we are being transparent, we really want to do what's best for the citizens of our state.

These audits are healthy.

Colbi.

Yeah, I mean, I think across party lines, as Natalie mentioned, local officials want to make sure that they're not spending unnecessary money.

That is putting additional pressure on taxpayers.

Uh, Pinellas County, the Board of County commissioners earlier this year invited a DOGE audit.

Um, the governor has kind of created a campaign to get county governments to just kind of self audit, which is why we have the situation that we have now with Broward County and Hillsborough County earlier this year actually approved a DOGE committee task force with elected residents in the county to go through the county spending and identify spots that could be cut.

Republicans on both sides of the Bay are supportive of this.

They wanted to get ahead of it.

They didn't want governor DeSantis to come down to the Bay and say, you guys need to get a part of this.

So they really spearheaded that movement and wanted to get ahead of it.

I would say Democrats on both sides of the Bay and Pinellas and Hillsborough, they've expressed some concerns about redundancy.

They feel that we already have staff in place that, you know, it is their job to identify spending spots that need to be cut.

Um, but yeah, so both counties in Tampa Bay at least have already kind of gotten involved in this.

Thompson isn't that something that voters on both sides, on either side of the political aisle, can get behind to eliminate redundancy?

Yeah, I think transparency, openness in government is always important.

I believe in that.

I think the citizens have a right to know, you know, whether we, you know, got a lot of spending going on that should not be, you know, a lot of waste that need to be cut.

Um, I think that's very important.

But also, um, we don't want duplicity of service.

Now, the county commission, I know that we had, uh, when I was there back in, uh, from 1996 to to 2007, we hired an internal auditor to come in.

In fact, we put it into the charter that we have to have an internal auditor to audit us...okay.

Which will supposedly help us be able to trim any fat, any redundancy, any duplication of service.

So in some instances, you should already have someone in place that's doing this work.

Yeah, I would agree.

I think that we all kind of agree on this.

So what's like the rub?

Well, it's political right?

I mean, you said you've been doing it 20 years ago at Hillsborough County.

There was a thing called DOGE at the federal level this year with Elon Musk.

He kind of ended it.

Not so, you know, popular the way it all worked out there.

And governor, as you mentioned, went into a couple of very liberal leaning cities.

I think he's going to spread the wealth, though.

They're going to go to Hillsborough, which is now Republican Manatee County.

The like.

But there's an edge to it.

I talked to the mayor of Gainesville on the day Tuesday.

I guess it was.

He said they got the letter from Blaise Ingoglia after business hours on Monday, that that letter that you showed there.

And they also mentioned that he questioned the numbers.

He said the numbers were not accurate.

What they were charging, how much their budget had gone up in the last year or so.

So but he also said, I'm happy to work with these guys because they have to, by the way, these fines overhanging them.

The big political thing underneath this, though, is the campaign to, if not eliminate outright property taxes, but to severely reduce them, which local governments are very concerned about.

This conversation is just getting started.

But actually, DeSantis and Ingoglia are campaigning weekly, you know, to start pushing this out there without us really knowing what's going to happen on the other side.

Yeah, it sounds great to get rid of property taxes.

They are really high these days.

But what are you going to do to pay for schools and police and fire, etc.. And the governor's office has said that this is a way these audits are a way of identifying areas where they can cut in order to fund that property tax elimination.

At least that's what the governor's office has said.

The question that I have for voters is, do you believe him?

Some say, yes, they do and others do not.

Yeah, I mean, we'll see.

Again, this is going to be probably I say probably because the legislature has to vote to put on the ballot an issue on property taxes in November 2026.

But we do not know really at all what that's going to be other than it's property taxes.

And so but the governor again they are pushing hard for this.

And Blaise Ingoglia this is like Blaise is criticizing local lawmakers and saying, you know, they're pushing back already.

Yeah, they are they're concerned about this.

So how it all washes out very early to say right now.

Something that we will all definitely keep our eyes on.

In addition to the bright line, the bright line, high speed passenger train.

There's a major story developing.

This is a transportation project that was lauded by governor DeSantis and former President Joe Biden when it launched last year, connecting Miami to Orlando.

There are now growing concerns among its private investors after the company deferred its last interest payment on more than $1 billion in municipal bonds.

Take a look, Brightline was hailed as the country's first successful private high speed rail line.

It promised convenience, speed and a profitable operating model.

Now, less than a year into full service from Miami to Orlando, it's missing the mark on riders and revenue.

According to published reports in Bloomberg, Brightline is falling short of its early targets and now deferring payments on roughly $1.2 billion in municipal bonds.

It's a legal move under the rail companies agreements, but one that's rattling confidence on Wall Street.

Brightline is staring down nearly $6 billion in outstanding debt.

An almost $1 billion payment comes due in August.

Credit agencies like S&P and Fitch downgraded some of Brightline's bonds to junk status.

Brightline had hoped to issue another $400 million in bonds to fund an extension from Orlando to Tampa, planning to break ground on that downtown Tampa connection by 2026.

Now, that leg of the line could be delayed indefinitely as Brightline tries to raise new equity to meet its obligations.

Thomas, how do you see all of this?

You're smiling.

I'm laughing and smiling because one, I was excited about getting the high speed rail coming from Orlando to Tampa and going back, uh, when I was on the county commission, uh, I remember the Obama administration.

In fact, Obama brought $2 billion for the high speed rail, and Rick Scott turned it away.

So I was simply laughing and said, wow, we.

It's amazing how we come all the way back around full circle when we should be up and running already.

Uh, however, um, it's going to be a real challenge because they are not they've already missed a payment of $1.2 billion.

They need another $408 million, something like that, to be able to run the lines from Orlando to Tampa.

So they got to go find that revenue.

Where is it going to come from?

And then investors are kind of uneasy about it.

But but but but I love the idea of the high speed rail from Orlando to Tampa.

But who pays for it.

Who pays for it?

Natalie...

I think.

That's the challenge in concept.

I think all of us love the idea of the efficiencies and the speed of travel and the reduction of congestion.

But if you have an organization that has $63 million in lost just last year, already behind the eight ball on their current debt, and don't have a strategic plan to build their business and get the ridership that they need.

Um, you know, the ridership is not only down, it's dropping.

And so even if they put in some new strategic marketing plans, it's just not sustainable, which I think unfortunately.

Um, Rick Scott understood then what we are finding out now.

And is it.

Fair to ask voters to ask city officials, state officials to approve more municipal bonds for Brightline?

What would you say?

I would say not at this point, because, again, it's failing.

I mean, you know, we see the report we're hearing hearing that, um, and so I would say, no, uh, it's not fair to do that.

Colbi, I'd like you to weigh in on this.

Yeah, I mean, I think that transportation is such an interesting topic in Tampa Bay specifically, um, you know, for years, local government leaders have struggled to create some sort of regional task force to address this issue.

And, you know, there's an election coming up, a special election in Tampa.

And through talking with candidates, transportation is an issue that across party lines, people want a solution to traffic.

They want a solution that makes it easier to get to Tampa's downtown central.

Um, and yeah, I think it's something that voters are really going to be interested in looking forward.

And I think that people do want a solution to transportation, as we've mentioned, regardless of party affiliation.

But in terms of funding it and demand for it, I think that's that's the biggest issue.

In the time that we have left.

I'd love to just transition really quickly to the the other big stories of the week.

Mitch, I'd like to start with you.

Sure, uh, there was a poll that came out on Thursday from the University of North Florida, looked at the Republican gubernatorial race, and it basically showed a statistical tie between First Lady Casey DeSantis and Congressman Byron Donalds.

Uh, now, when the pollsters asked, though, did you vote in the last election, more of a regular voter?

Byron Donalds went up by 15 points.

And this is kind of consistent with these polling.

That shows that more informed Republican voters who know that Byron Donalds has been endorsed by Donald Trump are much more supportive of him.

But overall, when people aren't paying that much attention, they know the name better, obviously, and they showed the support for Casey DeSantis.

I'd say a couple of things about this.

The big one being Casey may or may not still get in this race.

You know, summer of 2025.

We're still waiting to hear it.

If it's not her, maybe some other candidate Republican challenging Donalds.

Um, but if in fact she does get in the race.

This poll also showed that 63% of Republican voters did not ever hear of Hope Florida.

And obviously, if she gets in the race, you're going to hear a lot more about Hope Florida from Byron Donalds and other people.

Colbi... Yeah, so today, a story was in our newspaper about an independent investigation into Hillsborough county's stormwater infrastructure after last year's unprecedented levels of rainfall and flooding, specifically after Hurricane Milton.

A lot of neighborhoods, um, like Forest Hills in northwest Tampa, flooded even though they're in a flood zone X, which has a less than 0.2% chance of flooding every year.

So I wrote up a story about some of the key takeaways from that report.

Um, and, you know, there's a lot of news coming out of Hillsborough.

Uh, next week we may be hearing more about affordable housing.

The county recently moved $10 million from its affordable housing fund, and will continue to see and hear conversations about nonprofit funding at the county level as well.

Okay, Natalie, and the time we have left.

Well, I think because we just saw what the governor did with appointment for our CFO, I'm expecting and anticipating that we'll shortly hear what we're going to, who our next lieutenant governor is going to be.

And so I'll be looking forward to that conversation.

Thomas...

The district five city council race is up and running, and you got 12 candidates.

And so, you know, it's that's the big story for the city of Tampa right now.

And you.

Sir, are one.

Of them.

I am one of the candidates that election September the 9th.

So stay tuned to 12 candidates campaigning throughout the city of Tampa for District Five.

Thank you, everyone, for helping us present all sides of the of the issues on Florida This Week.

Again, thank you to our panel.

We want to thank you to Thomas Scott, Natalie King, Mitch Perry and Colbi Edmonds.

We want your story ideas.

What matters to you?

Send us an email to ftw@wedu.org.

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Thank you for watching from our entire team here at WEDU.

Have a great weekend!

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