>> Ted: NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, WE'LL DISCUSS THE CITY OF SCOTT'S DALE BANNING NATURAL GRASS FOR FRONT LAWNS OF ALL SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.

AN INVESTIGATIVE HOME ON DOUG DUCEY'S HOME AS A MAKESHIFT BORDER WALL.

A NEW MOST LOOKS AT THE PRIVILEGE INVOLVING TWO BLACK FAMILIES, ONE WEALTHY AND ONE NOT.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>> Announcer: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION.

THANK YOU.

>> Ted: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

PHOENIX MAYOR KATE GALLEGO AS THEY FIGHT EXTREME HEAT TO PROTECT WORKERS FROM HARMFUL CONDITIONS ALONG WITH ONE BILLION DOLLARS IN GRANTS FOR CITIES TO PLANT TREES AND MAKE BUILDINGS MORE HEAT RESISTANT.

GALLEGO PUSHED FOR CONGRESS TO ALLOW THE PRESIDENT TO DECLARE EXTREME AHEADBEHAVES AHEAD.

>>> STORM DAMAGE AND POWER OUTAGES AND WINDS UP TO 60 MILES PER HOUR.

RAINFALL NEAR AN INCH WAS MEASURED IN SCOTTSDALE AND STORM EASED TEMPERATURES WITH SKY HARBOR LAST NIGHT REPORTING THE FIRST READING BELOW 90° BREAKING 16 STRAIGHT DAYS OF LOW TEMPERATURES OF 90 AND ABOVE.

>>> ECONOMIC GROWTH IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF THE YEAR WAS STRONGER AN ECONOMISTS EXPECTED.

THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT RECORDED THE ECONOMIC OUTPUT GREW 2% TO FASTER PACE OF LAST YEAR AND ABOVE EXPECTATIONS OF 1.8%.

>>> THE LABOR DEPARTMENT RELEASED THE JOB'S REPORT SHOWING THAT THE NUMBER OF AMERICANS FILING FOR FIRST-TIME UNEMPLOYMENT CLAIMS DROPPED BY SEVEN THOUSAND FROM THE PREVIOUS WEEK AND A BETTER REPORT THAN ECONOMISTS PREDICTED AND ANOTHER INDICATION OF THE STRENGTH DESPITE THE INFLATION BY SLOWING THINGS DOWN.

>>> GUN DEATHS IN THE U.S. ARE DOWN AND THE RATE TO KILL THEMSELVES IS UP.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO A STUDY BY JOHN'S HOPKIN'S UNIVERSITY WHICH FOUND THAT GUN SUICIDES HIT A RECORD HIGH OF LAST YEAR.

THE RATE OF GUN SUICIDES AMONG BLACK ADOLESCENTS 10 TO 9 SURPASSED WHITE KIDS AND GUNS ARE RESPONSIBLE AMONG AMERICAN TEENS FOR THE FIFTH STRAIGHT YEAR.

>>> THE SCOTTSDALE CITY COUNCIL BANNED NATURAL GRASS ON ALL NEW HOMES AND THE ORDINANCE WILL APPLY TO NEW HOUSES CONSTRUCTED OR PERMITTED AFTER AUGUST 15th AND FOR MORE, WE WELCOME BRIAN BIESMEYER.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> Ted: WHAT DOES THIS ORDINANCE CALL FOR FOR?

>> IT BANS GRASS ON NEW HOMES IN SCOTTSDALE IN AUGUST AND IT'S SURPRISING HOW MUCH PRESS THIS HAS GOTTEN BECAUSE WE PREVIOUSLY HAD A BAN ON JUST MODEL HOMES, COULDN'T SHOW GRASS AND MOST PEOPLE, THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ELECTED NOT TO.

THEY WOULD LOOK AT A MODEL HOME AND SEE IT DOESN'T HAVE GRASS.

THIS JUST KIND OF COMPLETES THAT CIRCLE TO MAKE SURE THAT NEW HOMES CAN'T HAVE GRASS IN THE FRONTYARD.

AS WE DEAL WITH THE DROUGHT, WE CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH CONSTRICTED WATER SUPPLIES, IT MAKES SENSE TO US AND THE CITY COUNCIL TO, YOU KNOW, STOP PEOPLE FROM BEING ABLE TO PUT IN GRASS IN NEW HOMES.

>> Ted: AGAIN, A SINGLE FAMILY HOME BUILT OR PERMITTED AFTER AUGUST 15th.

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

SO IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING HOME AND GRASS IN YOUR FRONTYARD, WE'RE NOT ASKING YOU TO REMOVE IT AND WE WOULD PAY YOU.

WE HAVE A PROGRAM TO PAY YOU TO DO SO, BUT WE'RE NOT REQUIRING TO YOU REMOVE THAT GRASS.

>> Ted: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT IN A SECOND HERE, BUT AS FAR AS FRONTYARDS ONLY.

>> IT IS ONLY FRONTYARDS AND THAT'S THE MORE NONFUNCTIONAL AREA.

PEOPLE HAVE IT FOR LOOKS AND MOST FOLKS USE THEIR BACKYARD FOR PLAY AND THE PETS ARE IN THE BACKYARD AND OUTFRONT IS WHAT WE CLASSIFY AS A ONGOING FUNCTIONAL AREA AND WE WOULD LIKE FOLKS NOT TO HAVE AND CONSTRAINED WATER SUPPLIES AND 70% OF MOST HOMEOWNER'S WATER USAGE IS OUTDOOR IRRIGATION.

>> Ted: EASIER TO CHECK IN TO MAKE SURE NO ONE IS CHECKING IN A PATCH OF GRASS THERE.

>> YES.

>> Ted: WHAT ABOUT BUSINESSES?

>> DOESN'T AFFECT COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES AND WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES AS WE LOOK AT NONFUNCTIONAL GRASS OR TURF.

AND EARLIER THIS YEAR, WE TALKED TO CONCIL SEVERE ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE NONFUNCTIONAL GRASS AREAS AND SAY THOSE AREAS, YOU HAVE A ROAD AND YOU HAVE A SIDEWALK, TWO FEET FROM THE ROAD AND PEOPLE PUT GRASS THERE, AND THAT'S PURELY FOR DECORATION AND THAT'S THE SORT OF GRASS AREA WE'LL BE LOOKING AT NEXT AS WE CONTINUE TO EVALUATE MEASURES.

>> Ted: WHAT ABOUT APARTMENTS AND CONDOS AND HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATIONS AND HOW DOES THIS WORK?

>> NONE ARE CURRENTLY IMPACTED BY THIS BAN, BUT, AGAIN, AS WE GO FURTHER, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT NONFUNCTIONAL GRASS AND THOSE WOULDN'T BE IN ALL OF THOSE AREAS POTENTIALLY?

>> Ted: WHEN LOOKING UP ON THIS, I SAW A 2022 ORDINANCE AND FOR HOA'S, THERE'S A PAN BAN ON OVERSEATING?

>> IT CANNOT REQUIRE THEIR MEMBERS TO OVERSEAT?

AN HOA MAY ELECT TO DO SO AND WE ENCOURAGE THEM NOT TO DO SO AND CANNOT REQUIRE THEIR MEMBERS TO DO SO.

>> Ted: FOR THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME, HOW MUCH OF A FIGHT DID YOU HAVE ON THIS?

>> REALLY NOT AND WE SURVEYED ONE OF THE THINGS COUNCIL ASKED US TO SURVEY OUR CUSTOMER'S RESIDENTS AND OVER 80% OF THE CUSTOMERS WERE IN FAVOR OF THIS BAN.

WE HAVE SEVERAL OTHER ISSUES WE'RE LOOKING AT AND ONE WOULD BE ENROLLMENT IN OUR WATER SMART PROGRAM, OUR ONLINE PORTAL TO LOOK AT THE WATER CONSUMPTION AND CURRENTLY, WE ASK FOLKS TO DO THAT AND DON'T REQUIRE IT.

THE MEASURE THAT COUNCIL WANTS TO TAKE A LOOK AT -- IF YOU ENROLL IN SCOTTSDALE WATER, YOU WOULD HAVE ACCESS AND CUSTOMERS REPLIED YESTERDAY AND YEAH, THAT'S A SMART IDEA, DO THAT.

>> Ted: WHEN YOU HAVE A HYDRID, YOU WANT TO SEE HOW MUCH WATER YOU'RE SAVING.

>> EXACTLY.

AND WE HAVE WEEK ALERTS AS WELL AND YESTERDAY, I HAD A LOT OF WATER LOSS.

>> Ted: THE CONSERVATION PROGRAMS AND LET'S GET TO THE REBATE PROGRAM AND WHAT'S AVAILABLE FOR RESIDENTS?

>> THEY OFFER A REBATE OF UP TO $2 A SQUARE FOOT FOR TURF REMOVAL, FOR GRASS IN YOUR FRONTYARD OR FOR GRASS, PERIOD.

WE'LL OFFER THAT REBATE FOR OUR INDIVIDUALS AND YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH OUR CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE GET FRUSTRATED AND THEY SAY, I REMOVED MY GRASS AND I WANT MY MONEY.

NO, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH OUR CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT AND ENROLL AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A FEW OVERSIGHTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MONEY IS BEING REBATED PROPERLY.

>> Ted: OTHER CONSERVATION PROGRAMS?

>> A NUMBER OF THOSE AND ONE OF THE MOST USED IS OUR HOME WATER AUDITS AND IF YOU CALL THE CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT, YOU CAN GET ONE OF OUR SPECIALISTS TO COME TO YOUR HOUSE AND LOOK AT YOUR WATERING SCOPES WATERING SCHEMES AND GIVE YOU ADVICE OF HOW TO CUT BACK ON WATER CONSUMPTION.

>> Ted: IS SCOTTSDALE CAP WATER, SCP AND WHAT'S THE RATIO?

>> ROUGHLY 65% CAP AND THE REST IS SRP AND RECLAIMED WATER.

WE DO A LOT OF WATER RECYCLING.

>> Ted: WITH SO MUCH CAP AND THE CONCERNS REGARDING WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COLORADO RIVER AND LAKES MEAD AND POWELL?

ARE YOU SET IN CASE WATER CUTS COME DOWN THE PIKE?

>> THE FIRST CITY IF THE VALLEY AND STATE TO ACTIVATE THE DROUGHT MANAGEMENT PLAN IN 2021 AND SO WE'VE BEEN ACTIVELY GOING THROUGH PLANS AND LOOKING AT THEM AND WE'VE BEEN RECHARGING A LOT OF WATER, SO A LOT OF RECHARGED WATER IN THE GROUND FOR CONTINGENCIES SHOULD WE NEED THAT WATER, AGAIN, AND WE ARE CONTINUING TO EXPAND RECYCLED WATER, AS WELL.

WE ARE THE ONLY CITY IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA THAT HAS A DEMONSTRATION PROJECT FOR DIRECT POTABLE REUSE?

WE CAN TREAT IT AGAIN AND ALLOW FOLKS TO DRINK THAT WATER.

>> Ted: BRIAN, THANK YOU, SIR.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Ted: UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, FORMER GOVERNOR DUCEY'S USE AS SHIPPING CONTAINERS AS A BOARDSBORDER WALL.

>> STUDENTS FROM THE HOWARD CENTER RECENTLY REPORTED ON DOUG DUCEY'S USE OF SHIPPER CONTAINERS TO STOP UNDOCUMENTED CROSSINGS AND IT COST THE STATE MILLIONS AND LASTED FOR ALL OF FOUR MONTHS.

JOINING US NOW IS PROFESSOR KEN FOSKETT FROM THE SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM AND JOINING US IS INVESTIGATOR REPORTERS FROM THE HOWARD CENTER ALEX HO PELL AND FRANCESCA D'ANNUZIO.

WHAT IS THE HOWARD CENTER AT ASU AND HOW DO YOU PICK THESE THINGS TO STUDY?

>> THE FOCUS OF CRONKITE'S INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM CENTER AND PRIMARILY FOR GRADUATE STUDENTS AND ALL OF THE STUDENTS WHO WORKED ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT AND IN PREPARATION FOR GOING INTO THE HOWARD CENTER WHICH IS THEIR CAPSTONE EXPERIENCE AT CRONKITE AND THEY TAKE A CLASS WITH ME ON INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING TECHNIQUES AND ALEX AND FRANCESSCA ARE IN THAT CLASS.

>> Ted: WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS BORDER WALL AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THIS PROGRAM AND WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING AT AND WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> THE THING WE WERE LOOKING AT WAS SPECIFICALLY THE BORDER SECURITY FUND WHICH WAS USED TO FUND THE CONSTRUCTION.

I FIRST HEARD ABOUT IT WHEN I LISTENED TO MEETING FROM THE ARIZONA HUMAN TRAFFICKING COUNCIL AND YOU HAD THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY MILITARY AFFAIRS GO AND TALK ABOUT HOW THEY HAD ALL OF THIS MONEY AND THEY WEREN'T SURE HOW TO USE IT AND SO, WE WERE REALLY CURIOUS -- HOW DID THEY COME BY IT?

>> Ted: THAT'S A SMALL AGENCY WITH A LOT OF BIG DOLLARS.

WERE YOU LOOKING AT THE SAME KIND OF THINGS AND WHAT WERE YOU FOCUSED ON?

>> MY MAIN ROLE WAS GETTING RECORDS AND SO I FILED 30 TO 35 RECORD'S REQUESTS AND I HELPED JOSH, ALEX AND KEN GO THROUGH THE RECORDS, AS WELL, BUT THIS STORY STARTED BECAUSE ALEX IN A FALL CLASS, MANY MONTHS AGO WAS DOING A STORE ON HUMAN TRAFFICKING AND CAME ACROSS THIS IDEA.

>> Ted: KEN, AGAIN, YOU'RE LOOKING AT HUMAN TRAFFICKING AND YOU HAVE THIS BIG STORY STARING YOU IN THE FACE.

>> THIS WAS A REALLY, REALLY GOOD STORY THAT ALEX, YOU KNOW, BROUGHT IN AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IT WAS SORT OF THE FUNDAMENTALS OF WHAT INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING IS ABOUT WHICH IS HOLDING GOVERNMENTS ACCOUNTABLE FOR TAXPAYER MONEY.

THERE WAS A LOT, A LOT OF MONEY THAT WAS SPENT ON THIS WALL AND THE BIG QUESTION WAS, OK, HOW DID THEY USE IT, WHAT WAS THE RESULTS AND WHAT COULD WE LEARN ABOUT ALL OF THAT?

>> Ted: AGAIN, COMPETITIVE PROCUREMENT LAWS AND THESE KIND OF THINGS YOU FOUND OUT, HUH?

>> WE FOUND THEM OUT AND THEY WERE OUT IN THE OPEN AND THEY WEREN'T RECORDS WE REQUESTED AND THIS WAS ON THE STATE'S CONTRACT PORTAL AND THIS WAS AMAZING HOW THESE THINGS WERE OUT THERE AND YET NOT DISCUSSED.

>> Ted: YOU WERE LOOKING, FRANCESCA WERE A LOT OF DOCUMENTS AND HOW DIFFICULT AND HOW MUCH PUSHBACK AND WHAT WAS THE RELATIONSHIP THERE?

>> SOME OF THE RECORDS, WE GOT BACK WITHIN MAYBE TEN BUSINESS DAYS, BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF RECORDS THAT I REQUESTED THAT WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN BACK TO THIS DAY, EVEN AFTER SIX FOLLOW-UP EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS.

>> Ted: NOT SURPRISING, SAVANNAH.

>> WITH THE WAY THEY'RE WORDED, THERE'S NOT AN EASY WAY TO ENFORCE RELEASE OF THESE DOCUMENTS.

THE WAY IT'S WORDED, IT TALKS ABOUT A REASONABLE TIME PERIOD.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTS IN A REASONABLE TIME PERIOD AND NOT SPECIFIED WHAT THAT TIME PERIOD IS AND THERE'S NO RECOURSE.

IN SOME STATES, MAYBE AFTER TEN BUSINESS DAYS, THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY, WHERE ANY MEMBER IS REQUESTING DOCUMENTS HAS TO RESPOND OR PROVIDE THE DOCUMENTS WITHIN TEN DAYS, BUT HERE IT'S JUST -- IT'S LESS SPECIFIC.

>> Ted: KEN FOSKETT, THIS IS MEAT AND POTATOES STUFF AND THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM.

>> IT REALLY IS, AND THE GUTS OF GOOD INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING IS CENTERED IN DOCUMENTS AND WE HAD A LOT TO GO THROUGH.

FRANTHEY WERE REVEALING HOW THE MONEY WAS SPENT AND SOME OF THE ERRORS THAT THE STATE LATER CORRECTED, THAT WE POINTED OUT TO THEM, THAT NOBODY NOTICED AT THE TIME AND WERE AUTHORIZED FOR PAYMENT.

>> Ted: ALEX, WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED FROM ALL OF THIS AND HAVE TAKEN FROM ALL OF THIS FROM YOUR INVESTIGATION?

>> I THINK WE TAKE THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A LOT OF GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE A VERY -- LIKE IT SOUNDS LIKE A TIME.

OLD TALE BUT THESE THINGS WERE OUT IN THE OPEN AND PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THEY COULD JUST SPEND THIS MONEY WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AND PEOPLE SHOULD NOT GET AWAY WITH THAT.

>> Ted: THE LEGAL STANDOFF, THAT COSTS MONEY, TOO.

>> I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO MENTION AND THIS IS UNFORTUNATELY WE DIDN'T INTO OUR ARTICLE, BUT THE VI LACE OF VIOLATION OF THE BORDER WITHOUT ASKING ANYONE.

>> Ted: THAT WAS AN ASPECT OF THE STORY THAT YOU SPENT A COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION AND TAKING IT RIGHT DOWN AGAIN WAS BOARDED ON ABSURDITY AND WE TALK ABOUT THIS.

WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE FROM THIS INVESTIGATION?

>> GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY MATTERS AND LOCAL JOURNALISM MATTERS.

HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR SOME DIG, I 'DO KNOWDON'T KNOW THE DETAILS HAD COME TO LIGHT AND THE REPORT THAT WOULD HAVE COME OUT LATER EXPLAINING THE DETAILS OF HOW THE MONEY WAS SPENT AND THAT THE COMPANY THAT WAS CONTRACTED TO MOUNT A WALL AND DIS-MANTLE THE WALL WOULD PAY TO IDLE THE WORKERS AND DIS-MANTLEING THE WALL AND SITTING IN THE LEGAL CHALLENGES FOR A WALL THAT DIDN'T STAY IN PLACE FOR VERY LONG.

>> Ted: YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR IT AND YOU FOUND IT AND GREAT WORK.

CONGRATULATIONS TO BOTH OF YOU AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND KENT, THANK YOU FORTEN, THANKKEN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AS WELL.

BARRAGE A NEW NOVEL TELLS A GENERATIONAL STORY OF TWO BLACK FAMILIES FACING TRAGEDY, ROMANCE, FAMILY SECRETS AND THE REAL CONFLICT BETWEEN HAVE'S AND HAVE NOT'S AND THIS IS TITLED, WORLD CHAMPIONS AND THIS IS JEWEL JULIE SULLIVAN.

>> A SHOUT OUT TO NURSING AND HEALTH AND INNOVATION.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Ted: THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

THIS IS GOOD STUFF HERE AND I WANT TO KNOW AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

THE TITLE "THE WORLD IS FULL OF CHAMPIONS" WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND IN THIS NOVEL, I WANTED TO ELIMINATE HOW FAMILIES OF PRIVILEGE HAVE A DIFFERENT LIFESTYLE THAN FAMILIES WHO ARE STRUGGLING AND THE WORLD IS FULL OF CHAMPIONS COMES FROM THE IDEA THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A WINNER TO BE A CHAMPION.

YOU JUST NEED TO HAVE TO LEARN FROM THE LESSONS OF LIFE AND SURVIVE, STAY IN THE GAME.

AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THESE TWO FAMILIES, THE WHITMAN FAMILY, VERY PRESTIGIOUS, WEALTHY AND THE SMITH FAMILY WHO STRUGGLES, BUT MORALLY, THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A NAVIGATING SENSE OF WHERE THEY'RE GOING AND IT'S A CONFLICT BETWEEN THESE TWO FAMILIES I WANTED TO SHOW.

>> Ted: THERE'S A CONFLICT INVOLVING THE KIDS AND THE TWO BROTHERS AND ALL SORTS OF STUFF GOING ON HERE.

WHEN YOU WRITE FICTION WITH SO MANY CHARACTERS GOING IN SO MANY DIRECTIONS, DID YOU HAVE TO PLOT IT OUT AND COULD YOU NOT REMEMBER WHO'S DOING WHAT AT TIMES?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I STARTED THE BOOK ABOUT TWO, THREE, THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO AND I ALWAYS HAD IN MIND THAT I WANTED TO SHOW THIS KIND OF SIBLING RIVALRY AND NOT ONLY BETWEEN SIBLING AND THAT RIVALRY COMES OUT PRETTY TRAGIC ENDING BUT ALSO, THERE'S RIVALRY BETWEEN GROUPS.

SO I WANTED TO SHOW HOW YOU HAVE RIVALRY NOT ONLY IN FAMILIES BUT WITHIN CULTURAL GROUPS WHERE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE UPWARDLY MOBILE ARE OFTEN LESS LIKELY TO REACH BACK AND WANT TO IDENTIFY WITH THE STRUGGLES OF THE POOR.

I GUESS I WHO PUT IN THE CHARACTERS COME TO LIFE AND IN A SENSE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I ACTUALLY HAVE OBSERVED IN MY OWN LIFE.

>> Ted: TALK TO US ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE YOUR FATHER, GRANDFATHER, YOU COME FROM A PROMINENT FAMILY.

>> MY FATHER WAS GRAPH WAS GRANDFATHER WAS A FROM CONTINENTALPROMINENT CIVIL RIGHT'S LEADER AND MY BROTHER AND SISTER AND I GREW UP IN PHILADELPHIA UNDERSTANDING THAT DEMARKATION AND THE PASTOR OF A CHURCH WHERE THE PARISHIONERS WERE POOR.

STAY MORNING, DAYCARE CENTER AND LAYING ON A MAT AND THE SMELL OF, LIKE, GREENS COMING THROUGH THE KITCHEN AND BUTTERED BREAD AND THEN ON FRIDAY, IT'S CLASSICAL PIANO LESSONS.

SO I WANTED TO SHOW IN THIS BOOK, THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A BAR OF EXPECTATION THAT'S PLACED ON YOU AND THIS HAPPENS IN ANY ETHNICITY AND I'M TALKING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AND HAPPEN IN MY GROUP THAT YOU CAN DISTANCE YOURSELF TO THE DEGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU FEEL INSULATED IN YOUR PRIVILEGE AND YOU DON'T WANT TO BECOME SO VULNERABLE THAT THE COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU'RE STILL A PART OF COULD POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, SUSTAIN YOU IN A SENSE.

I DON'T KNOW IF I'M USING THAT WORD IN A LITERAL SENSE.

>> Ted: ESPECIALLY IN THE WAY OF THE BOOK AND FATHER IN THE ONE FAMILY HAS SECRETS OF HIS OWN AND THAT DEMARKATION, IS IT EASING A LITTLE?

IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, SIT IS IT EASING?

>> IT HAPPENING IN ANY COMMUNITY, BUT iTHINK THAT WHATBUT I THINK WHAT ILEARNED FROM MY HERITAGE OF LIVING IN A COMMUNITY AND I LOVED IN PHILADELPHIA FOR THE FIRST 25 YEARS OF MY LIFE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE AND THERE'S A SCENE IN THE BOOK WHERE IF YOU RECALL, LAWRENCE AND GEORGIA, AND GEORGIA IS THE GIRL FROM THE WRONG SIDE OF THE TRACKS AND HE'S THE WEALTHY SON OF THE JUDGE, HE IS IN THE STORE WHERE THERE'S THIS MAN WHO IS PREJUDICE AGAINST THEM, RIGHT, AND WITH ALL OF HIS PRIVILEGE, IT WON'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT THIS MAN HAS A CERTAIN FRAMEWORK, A CERTAIN SET OF BIASED THAT COMES THROUGH.

SO TO YOUR QUESTION, IS IT CHANGING?

NOT ENOUGH, NOT ENOUGH.

PEOPLE NEED TO DO MORE, I THINK.

>> Ted: I WANT TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME HERE AND THERE'S A WHOLE ROMANTIC STORY IN HERE THAT WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON.

IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE IN THE STORY.

BUT EVERYTHING WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THE DEMARKATION, THE CAST SYSTEMS, AND REACTION TO THE BOOK ALONG THOSE LINES AND WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

I'M HEARING GOOD THINGS.

I'M HEARING IT'S A PAGE TURNER AND THE ROMANCE, AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY LOVE THE ROMANCE.

I'M ALSO HEARING THAT IT IS A DELICATE TOPIC BECAUSE ALL OF THE STRUGGLES, I MEAN IN THE 1980'S IN FILL, YOU HAD DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND GAYS AND YOU ALSO HAD THE IDEA OF POLICE BRUTALITY AND I BROUGHT ALL OF THAT INTO THE BOOK.

I DON'T WANT TO RAIN ON ANYBODY'S PARADE.

WHAT I'M SAYING IF YOU HAVE IT, YOU NEED TO GIVE BACK.

SO IN MY CASE, I DO VOLUNTEER FOR AN ORGANIZATION, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS FOUNDED BY MY LATE FATHER AND I DO THAT VOLUNTEER WORK.

WE ALL HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY, WHETHER YOU'RE WHITE, BLACK, NATIVE AMERICAN TO DO THAT.

>> Ted: THAT'S A GREAT MESSAGE.

>> LIKE YOU DO.

TED >> Ted: JULIE SULLIVAN, CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK.

>> THANK YOU, TED.

>> Ted: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING!

♪♪