>> welcome back.

We have the board of the directors and nRA with what Congress direction with the gun issue6 adopted.

On the panel Eric, Lauren Gibbons sitting with us as we get the inside out off the record.

>> production made possible in part by Martin Wehmeier a full-service strategic communications agency partnering with clients for public relations digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at Martin Wehmeier .com.

>> this addition of off the record begins now.

>> welcome to another edition of off the record on this holiday weekend.

I hope you have your fireworks ready to go.

>> it's been a week of fireworks appear >> political.

$76 billion in the new state budget let's look at what they did.

The governor and state lawmakers may be burning midnight oil under the capitol dome later today as they attempt to spend more than $74 billion of your tax dollars before they hit the reelection campaign trail for the Summer.

A lead story is dash of education of the K-12 system community colleges in the state's 15 universities.

For example, lawmakers want to create a new $3,000 scholarship for community college students and $6,000 for university students across the state but it's the K-12 system that is set to receive around $9,000 per pupil.

Him him.

>> it's the highest dollar amount certainly we are excited about that but we still know that research indicates we are underfunded by $3 billion.

>> other urban schools will get a new influx of state dollars for special education students and those at risk.

>> middle city education Association school districts inducer serve higher percentages of special education populations and higher percentages of students who are at risk so to hear this type of investment potentially coming our way is very important from a member districts.

>> the budget was not without is the Republican share of the budget committee in the house Albert attempted to stop the state from sending state tax dollars to groups that perform abortions and there was an effort to take money away from the Democratic attorney general she refused to honor a legislative request to preserve the 1931 law making abortions illegal but lawmakers it didn't pass a gas tax holiday and they will not be sending you a 500-dollar check like the governor wanted however the governor and the while over the Summer will find an agreement on tax cuts and if so they will call lawmakers back to town to pass along to you.

A long night done at 2:00 a.m.

I was sleeping.

What is your lead out?

>> I stayed until 11:30 p.m. >> overtime.

>> the biggest headline is the biggest number at the 76.7 billion.

I spoke with lawmakers on both sides and were not comfortable with it being that big and everyone knows it will be sustainable moving forward they can say is much as they want like these are one-time investments and good to go but at some point the revenues that we have been seeing surplus as come down we won't have Federal Covid dollars so it's interesting to see as I spoke with other people those waiting on this they are excited to hear the big numbers the are record investments but the devil is in the details and they wonder it's nice to have it now but what we see moving forward?

What can we rely on and expect to continue going because that's the big question especially in an election year where everyone wants the headline of a record investment.

>> I think procedurally this is good news for schools and local governments and everyone who's on the Summer budget schedule technically lawmakers don't have to pass budget until September 30th but this is the first time in a couple years they met the self-imposed deadline of Summer and so that was good news for some of the schools that have been waiting on the clarity to see how much local but that said, your piece mentioned in the lack of clarity on tax relief both Republicans and Democrats have had they just could not get there in time for the Summer break and a cell that really is the key in terms of getting what's left of it on the table there's billions and billions that could be going toward tax relief or the potential suspension of gas and sales tax on gas but there still a lot of questions on the table but in terms of the procedural movement in the budget this is definitely an improvement from pass budget cycles where it came down to the wire in some ways.

>> it's already Midsummer and if you haven't figured out how to pass a tax relief with $7 billion laying around you probably are not get a pass tax relief for any kind of long-term tax relief for people or even in the short term.

The governors of the Treasury Department to get checks out in seven to ten days if the Legislature which just authorize a one-time rebate.

I would be surprised if they spent more of this pass Labor Day it could get held up until after the election so they could fight it out in lame-duck.

>> did you say over the Summer they will come up with Adela tax cut?

>> I would be surprised.

>> I think you're wrong why wouldn't they do it before the election.

Call everyone back major tax cuts.

>> there is some belief in the chamber even among top Democrats that Republicans don't want to hand checks out.

They don't want the governors to send out checks appear the governors out there with every piece of campaign literature going out there saying I gave you a 400-dollar rebate on your car insurance this spring and is the governor send four, five, 800 huge number to every family in September when the absentee ballots come out no way they won't do it.

>> they won't takes the gas tax often put it back on in October she won't sign off on it.

>> they talked about doing it the 15th of September I told people this is a six month deal they.

>> may be the eighth but not before that.

>> Christmas.

>> all these numbers and superintendents and municipalities are excited to get the money but real people at home or traveling the Summer and looking to do stuff up north we are relying on people driving up and that is so much more expensive people are looking to see where my saving money.

The schools are getting 450 that's good we like it but I'm spending this much money I want the money why can't you find something that will hit my pockets now.

>> hire a lobbyist because all the special interest groups cleaned up.

>> there's a billion of congressional pork Museum Senior centers the ferryboat to Weavers Island.

>> $2 million for the curling court in Traverse City.

>> I want to know if when Schmidt is a member.

>> there can be more than five members and the mostly they're dead.

>> 500 to literally get in Taylor -- to little League in Taylor.

It's remarkable the amount of money just able to go out.

There's been years when we had $150 million and legislators will get a bunch of roads paved in their districts this is phenomenal city of Detroit was able to get money for all the museums $100 million for the Detroit center for innovation project that's a couple billionaires are building for the University of Michigan a it's quite remarkable how people on both sides of the aisle cleaned up pretty well on this bill.

>> let's turn to the Flint water crisis.

What does the indictment mean?

>> everything is starting over.

Now you're butting up to due process and the statute of limitations.

This has already been something that has been so long in the works it felt like there was nothing coming of Ed who will be held responsible they had these nine indictments and then all of a sudden they cut corners and now we have to start all over if we even can.

>> why doesn't Dana Nessel say uncle?

>> politically she's trying to get some kind of victory here for the people of Flint go back to 2019 June 3 years ago last month she declared that we had to start the case is over and said that the investigation led by the special prosecutor was flawed and she brought in one of the top prosecutors in the state from Wayne County and assigned her to run this investigation.

They go and mount a huge grand jury investigation the judge sits and linens to evidence and indict somebody but this was a supreme smack down by Democratic led a supreme court.

>> unanimous.

>> I thought Justice Bernstein would find something but he even went with the majority and so they just came in and gave them the business and he said you cannot use these things to indict people and deny them the ability to have a preliminary hearing the problem for Dana Nessel timing wise right now or anybody going forward is it took almost one year to go for the preliminary hearing for the former state health record when the longest in history was a cool thing days and days and weeks and weeks of court hearings.

I got him bound over for trial in then they dropped the charges.

So now you have defendants who have been strung along for six years now since Bill began his investigation and it's gotten almost nowhere.

The people are begging for ahead but the charges are likely to get dropped.

Rick Schneider is not likely to go to prison at this point and said the Attorney General faces a huge decision on whether they should keep this going forward.

>> it cannot be understated how much of a setback this is for the the Attorney General's office this was the most high when she came into office.

It's a major decision that needs to be made and going to the ballot in 2022 technically the Attorney General has been handling the civil side of it this is her office she's on the ballot in the buck stops with her and to see this major setback look at the prospect of starting this process over again for now the third time is a and the people in Flint will be watching this closely and likely are pretty disappointed right now.

>> Johnson said I'm not can do this anymore are you surprised by that?

>> nope he is a numbers guy and he has calculated that it's too costly.

With James Craig is doing is quixotic at best and if Parry Johnson was ever going to do it he's going to sit out we have not heard the last of it.

>> he's wondering if you should go to Iowa and one for president.

>> I'm always interested.

>> you don't need signatures there to run.

>> it surprising because Perry Johnson speaking with James Craig when he did his writing campaign he completely changed his tone when he was talking to us about going grass roots like he heard said it would take 20 million or what not to successfully win this and he's like were knocking to spend 20 million but we will try to win through social which is not how he agreed to run it before.

>> he has agreed to do the show next week.

>> tried before it was crickets now he wants to come out.

>> to me this is not surprising in the table has been set we do see James Cragg is going to to try to do the right thing but this moves on to the people who act to meet the ballot.

>> he's not sure he will endorse anyone left in the field and his quote was my wife won this battle I might win the next one stay tuned let's call in the and Steve you have a disclaimer you would like to use at the top of the show go ahead my friend.

>> I wanted to mention I am a recently elected member of the board of the National Rifle Association but I am not as they have a large board I know it's says it under my here and these are not official statements of the group here.

>> are you in favor of a red flag law in Michigan.

Take under no circumstances?

Is there any compromise you advise?

>> one RAND Corporation did an exhaustive study and found no positive definite -- benefit to read flag extreme risk protection orders they don't seem to save lives in the states that have been in place now second, do you use one of my favorite phrases due process.

For the whole nature of a red flag law turned to due process let's head.

It takes away someone's rights and property's and then says show up in court later and explain why you should get your stuff back it's not the way we do things in America and the other reason is it is a dumb idea.

It makes no sense.

If I identified as a danger to myself or anyone else and then the red flag gets the warrant and the SWAT team knocked on my door it's, likely someone will get killed and all you will do is really upset me the person that's already a danger according to the then you leave and there is provision unaware of or proposal to help the person who is the gun owner they come in swoop in and take the guns and leave and they might not get all the guns it's easier to get more guns and now you just upset someone who's already supposedly a danger to themselves and other than their standing in a world full of potential weapons with no support or help it is a dumb idea.

>> speaking of how easy it is to get guns why should an 18-year-old be able to buy a handgun in many states and they cannot buy a handle of liquor?

>> it's an ongoing part of the debate many folks on my side of the issue will seek consistency and what we don't agree on is what age adult hood should begin is 18 or 21 we have a split between voting and buying liquor and tobacco.

Is there a magic number?

We say let's make everything 21 let's go back to that.

It's going to be fascinating watching us play out.

It will probably be litigated.

It will be fascinating to watch.

>> what do you make of the gun legislation recently passed by Congress?

What do you stand on where lawmakers recently came down?

>> it's a hodgepodge, a grab bag of proposals that are suddenly law.

But none seem to be directly related to the triggering issue that the shooting in Texas or any of the others I see no connection between the laws -- it's five separate laws package and one signature.

I don't see a connection between what is happening in those laws and the harm that's trying to be prevented here.

It is an opportunity for gun-control supporters to try to push forward some of their agenda.

It's a mixed bag that will be litigated as providing more work for trial attorneys but I don't think it will have impact directly as the sponsors are hoping or have publicly stated hope will make the world safer.

>> what do we do?

As someone who is ever involved in something and someone in that group that gives the back I and more frustrated with them than anyone that's coming at the group as responsible gun owners what do we do to solve the problem?

Because whether the school shooting or shooting or a street corner there so many underlying issues we could but some people feel like something needs to be done.

>> I do have ideas and this is part of the disclaimer that I don't speak for any board that I sit on because one of the major things you can do for the shootings on the street corner would there is support objective verifiable research that supports the if you get rid of the drug gangs you'd have less shootings on street corners and that makes perfect sense.

If you want to protect some people in schools put armed guards around them and it works for the elite and celebrities and high-level politicians they have armed guards around them it works for is really school children in a high-risk environment every day it is common for Israeli teachers to be packing assault rifles on their backs while they take the kids out for a walk on a field trip so you protect people with guns that's how you protect people and if you want to protect schools you get people who know what they're doing whether their volunteers or teachers who have concealed pistol licenses it doesn't necessarily have to cost a lot of but you push up the security at a school at least to the level of a bank is the money more important than the kids?

Apparently.

>> should guns be allowed in the state capitol?

>> sure many people have guns there no problem if it was a problem someone would have been shot by now.

>> what did you think about the decision to ban them?

>> I have been teaching gun-control seminar courses for several years and if you look at the history what you find is politicians seeking limelight wanting to be -- wanting to appear to be doing something about a perceived problem so gun-control gets pass.

This goes back to 1938 where there's lots of bank robberies and Bonnie and Clyde so they passed a a firearms act and then the gun control built 68 comes after high-profile assassinations is looking for an easy scapegoat which is guns in the truth is Pandora's box is open guns exist they are around us easy and cheap to make even three D printers.

The idea of controlling guns is ridiculous when you think it through we cannot control drugs or anything else so all we do with gun laws is disarm people who like to follow laws it doesn't affect the people who don't follow laws that all in general.

It is more of the same.

There's nothing new under the sun every time there's a lead story there's a politician standing up demigod being the issue in the simplest way to do that is guns.

>> you mentioned that this could lead to work for trial attorneys if we do what you are saying and we outfit a bunch of volunteers in schools or teachers with guns and we have incidences where kids get a hand or a hold of a government or it's misplaced or misused or it seems like a lot more work for the trial attorneys as well.

>> it could have been that speculation that you're engaging in at this moment but you have to remember many school districts in the U.S. have had arm teachers for quite a while now years and years and none of this has happened turns out what happens in this debate is any proposal for arming anybody comes with this demand for perfection in the second amendment is not about absolute safety it is simply about protecting your right to fight back that's it.

>> but I want my fourth to be able to just go to school safely without fear of the classroom being shot up what do we need to do to get to that in America without having to act like we're in Tel Aviv and arming up all of our schools?

That is what you're proposing is that we act like this is a war zone.

>> if you're going to concentrate kids in one place vulnerable people and I'm a parent as well who have young children you put a bunch of kids in the building.

You want to make sure the building is secure and safe.

So don't have to make it like the Israeli teachers with M-16 over their back I mean I would be okay with that but I know I have more of a typist and some people I understand but there's a way to make it surreptitious and unobtrusive and still have good solid protection something as simple as making sure there's only one entry into the school and that's a sally port with to lock the doors and all the other doors or exit only in case of emergency and those doors are actually close when they're supposed to be closed that alone doesn't require guns but make schools more secure there are many ways to make kids more safe than they are now in most schools that won't necessarily turn it into some dystopian science fiction.

>> will you hang around for overtime?

>> sure.

>> okay let's look at the closed credits.

We have more conversation with Chad see you on the other side.

>> production is made in part possible by Martin Wehmeier a full-service strategic medications agency partnering with clients to public relations digital marketing and public policy engagement learn more at Martin wheMeyer .com.

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