Thanks for tuning in.

With former Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm in the queue talking about you know what?

So is he getting a bum rap on this story?

Is the media overplaying this?

Yes, yes, yes.

Our lead story, Michigan Democrats, what are they doing about President Biden around the OTR table, Chuck Stokes, Zoe Clark and Craig Mauger sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the record.

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And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Slubick.

Thanks very much.

A busy week in our town as we talk to you on this Friday morning from Studio C Ms. Clark.

Mr. Skubick.

Yes Maam.

Now we have the formalities out of the way.

Two can play this game.

Touche.

Your serve.

It's fraying around the edges.

The Michigan support for Biden, it's not serious yet.

It has not reached critical mass.

No, I mean, it's a bit of a little mini microclimate of wha we're seeing nationally.

Right.

Where were, as of now taping Friday morning, there's a little more than a dozen House Democrats, U.S. House Democrats who have come out now and called on the president to step down.

And we should all be clear, pretty much they're all saying he should step down.

But if he doesn't, we're still 100% going to vote for him in support.

And so on Thursday, we saw West Michigan Congresswoman Hillary Scholten the first Michigan membe of the congressional delegation, come out and basically kind of say the exact same thing, which was I think it's tim for the president to step down for the rest of the party and for the country.

But, of course, if he doesn't, I will still support him.

I mean so thi this was interesting certainly you know.

It's a blip.

Well this is this is what everyone was watching particularly after Thursday night's press conference is was that going to sort of be the thing that allowed more House Democrats to say publicly what all of them are saying privately?

It's more than a blip, though.

Hillary Scholten represents an absolutely essential district to Joe Biden.

If he does not do well in Kent County, he will not win Michigan.

That's those are her voters.

The last two presidential elections.

Where did Donald Trump end his campaign?

His entire campaign?

Grand Rapids.

Grand Rapids could be the key to Michigan if you've got the congresswoman there casting doubt on the Democratic presidential candidate.

That's a massive problem.

And it points to this this national issue that the Democrats have.

There are some key Democratic officeholders who are now criticizing their party's own nominee, but the base of the party is still with him.

You have Detroit Democrats.

He's got to do well in Detroit.

They're coming out in support of him.

African-American leaders are standing by Joe Biden.

The Democrats are caught here.

How do they get out of this?

You are right.

I was wrong.

I un-blip that.

That's the first right there.

Don't get used to it.

And to your point, she as well as Representative Phil Skaggs are bot from the west side of Michigan and they are in districts.

In her district Democrats haven't represented it since the 1970s.

And so you could make the argument she has to play it that way because she is in such a marginal district that could flip back to Republicans at the drop of a hat.

And here's what to look at.

We have two Democrats in the Michigan House, okay.

And came out a day or so later, 14 Democrat led by the speaker of the House with match your two.

And now I got 12 more.

This thing is going to go on and on.

Until when?

Till the Republican convention starts on.

I mean, I think and I say that seriously because I think a lot of the news media attention will then turn to the Republican convention.

And I think what the Biden administration is doing right now is trying its best to get to the start of the Republican convention to take some of this attention off of I think some of this will be do is taken off the fact that he had what I think most people felt was a good press conference on Friday.

He showed his command for foreign affairs in a way that you you just got to believe Donald Trump would not be able to do because he doesn' have that depth of experience.

He hasn't been a past Senate chair of the Foreign Relations Committee.

So those was Biden's strengths.

He showed those strength, but there are still a lot of Democrats who I lik to say Democrats like to speed date their candidates, where Republicans like to marry them, and they're still out there looking for that Camelot that John Kennedy that Obama, that that Clinton in this is a complete antithesis of this.

This is a man who's 81 years old.

There was an internal timeline in D.C. for all of this, and that's because of NATO, that there was the huge NATO conference.

And you certainly just cannot have a U.S. president decide that they're not running in the middle of an NATO conference a day beforehand.

It's done now.

And so there was this sort of internal deadline.

And this is why last night's pres conference happened when it did.

And again, privately, a lot of folks talking about had the president not don well enough on Thursday night, a lot of Congress folks even had draft releases ready to go to be sent, basicall saying he needed to step down.

He did well enough to keep him in for longer.

But to your point about a timeline, you know that well enoug gets the campaign another day, another two days.

You've got a Lester Holt interview coming up on Monday night.

Again, as we're talking about, Biden will actually be in Detroit a Friday night.

This is this is you know, we're measuring in hours here, not by you know, weeks at this point.

Interestingly, Governor Governor Whitmer said that i wouldn't hurt if he did a test and he finally found the right answer last night, which was if my docs tell me to do it, I'm going to do it, which is what he should have said on the ABC interview.

But speaking about the governor, she' got a book out, have you heard?

Let's take a look.

for $26.99 from Simon & Schuster Governor Gretchen Whitmer first book outlines her survival lessons that she's learned over the years in her private life and in the shark infested political waters of Michigan.

You know, 159 page book, She is clear being governor has not gone to her head.

You know what?

I'm still the same person I was a year ago or ten years ago.

The governor reflects on her battles with Donald Trump over COVID and with legislative Republican who fought her tooth and nail.

And through it all, she steadfastly refuse to return the political attacks.

Her life lessons also include taking nothing personal trying to be nice to everybody, and not running awa from controversy and, of course, never giving up.

The governor is big into her family.

She says she would die for her two daughters and to this day she still consults with her dad.

I mean, he's someone that is a, you know, incredibly good friend, but also someone who did a lot of accomplished thing in the business world at that.

I seek his advice regularly.

When the governor's mother was dying of cancer, daughter Gretchen took care of her, raised a new baby, and learned the political ropes all at the same time.

But she and her mom, well, she explains in the boo they had some issues growing up.

Were you a rebellious teenager?

Yes.

Well, I was a pain.

It was strong minded.

I know that's going.

To strong minded, which is code for.

Recalcitrant.

Obstinate.

Yeah I was a lot of fun to be around.

I had a robust social life.

So robust that she got drunk at a high school football game, she reveals and barfed on the school principal's shoes.

The governor finally got her academic ac together at MSU and Law school, and she writes, At the end of the day.

I'm not any better than anyone else.

I'm not any worse either.

In other words, what you see is what you get.

All right, so the barf story.

You're telling me that's not true.

I can't I can't vouch for this.

But the principle has come out in another media outlet and said he does not recall and doesn't believe she threw up on him.

So I I'm not reporting that.

The let me just.

There weren't cameras back then.

They had a debate about barfing on off the record I'm like.

Well you know we've reached a new high She she was suspended for three days.

Somebody said, look it, if I were a principal and somebody barfed on your shoes, wouldn' you think you'd remember that?

Miss Clark.

Let's talk about the book.

We're talking about the book.

All right.

What did you think?

When did you find out new in the book?

Oh, there were there were a number of new things.

Look, we we many of us have covered this governor for a very long time.

She is funny, She is dynamic.

She's quick on her feet.

And I think this book was an introduction to the nation and who she is.

This is a very different political book.

I think you could argue that many of these sor of autobiographies that we read or even the one that's.

Not a deep dive.

And and she has said that it was not meant to be, I think in every, she and again, she has done every media interview.

It feels like this week.

This is a great gig that they put together.

This is an Introduction to the Nation.

And she is introducing herself in a very interesting way.

What we usually se is these books that are sort of, you know, about here' my belief about foreign policy and here's how this thing that happened to me and ponderous.

And instead what she's calling again in these many is that this is sort of a handbook.

Right.

And that you can pick up one chapte in the middle of the book and, you know, laugh and get her playlist.

There were no Motown sounds on that list.

It broke my heart.

Chuck didn't that hurt you.

Shame on her.

But I think, again, this is much more about introducing the personality and the person than it is about policy or beliefs about sort of the future of what she wants this country to be.

It was because coming out of the pandemic, she had an image of being so hard, so rigid, and I think they wante to loosen up that persona of her and show that if indeed she does get to the national stage or tries to run for an office on the national stage, that she's a human being, she has personality, as she said in your interview, she was a fun person to be around, that there is a much lighter side and a much more interesting side than just the policy walk.

I'm going to follow Covid to the line.

Yeah, I mean a couple of points on the book.

I think there's a lot more to be said here.

I mean, the governor, as she is in interviews she doesn't always put forward the most detailed information about how she arrives at political decisions.

I don't think she's fascinated by that.

And she doesn't understand why we're interested in that.

So there's not a lot in ther about some of the major choices she's made as the state's governor.

However, I think it is refreshing to see someone on the political stage who's willing to make fun of themselves.

I mean, we just don't have that now.

We have political candidate who are angry a lot of the time.

And here you have someone who is out there.

The book is a lot of stories people would be embarrassed to tell of themselves.

And she's just dumping them out there at the laugh.

So family is very important to her.

The line abou I would die for my two daughters I thought was touching.

Yeah.

I mean, it's it's obvious that they're a very, very close family.

I think humor is something I mean, there's stories, a lot of humorous stories about her and her siblings How about the salty language.

Didn't we all know thi about this governor?

Could you could you imagine could you imagine Rick Snyder talking about Shark Week?

Oh, yeah.

No, no, for many reasons.

But to Craig's point, I mean, this is a particularly in light of where that story came from.

No.

But again, I think this is this governor who who's I mean, look, you can even hear it.

So this whole week she's been doing the media, her newest thing that she's talking about, she keeps sayin Joe Biden has the receipts like this is a youthful thing that, you know, she probably like hear that phrase from her daughters and now has picked it up and using it.

And I think this.

For those that don't know what it means.

Tell them.

The proof that Joe Bide has the proof of what he's done.

Right.

She speaks in also not, you know in a nonpolitical politician way when we're talking about trying to be real.

It reminds me a lot in 200 with George W Bush and everyone kept saying, he's the president we want to have a beer with.

Right.

And Gretchen Whitmer has always sort of been that.

And I think, again, as I keep saying, this introduction to the nation, that is how she's introducing herself.

She might even buy.

because she has a robust social life.

It's fascinating to have Gavi Newsom, the California governor, who people think could be running against Whitmer for the Democratic nominee.

He was in Michigan recently.

Yeah, I got to be ther and ask him a couple questions.

And I was just he would sit there all day.

I thought if his people allowed him t and talk about politics all day, if we had wanted to, he would have sat there for an hour and answered every question just.

Very quickly, just like she's he's almost the only one that she actually takes a slight little dig at.

Which is fascinating.

Might be her competition.

very different, very different people.

And it will be fascinating In a generation where young people are getting tattoos, like it's nobody's business, I think is her way of saying, yeah, I'm cool, too.

I've got tattoos.

I'll talk about two of them in the book.

One of them I'm not going to talk about.

All right.

So speaking of governors, let's take a look at an interview we did on Thursday, thanks to our people from Channel six in Lansin with Governor Jennifer Granholm.

Remember her?

And this is this is an interesting exchange.

Let's take a look.

Madam Secretary, welcome.

It's good to see you.

Great to see you, too.

Look, you're i you're in the state doling out some money.

You're sort of Santa Claus in July.

Yeah.

Your critics are going to say, look at this.

This looks like just a political ploy, dumping some money in Michigan in order to get votes.

Listen, we the president's Invest in America agenda, which is consists of three basic bills, the bipartisan infrastructure law, the Inflation Reduction Act, and the CHIPS and Science Act requires us to be abl to give grants for, particularly in this case, reshoring or creating jobs in manufacturing in in Michigan and in other states, too.

So Michigan's not the only for.

Does it requre you to do it in an election year?

Well you have to get the money out.

I mean, you have to you can't just sit on it.

Why didn't you do it six months ago.

Well, because we we put it out for bid six months ago, you know the law is only two years old.

So you have to set up a new program.

You've got to get information, you've got to get notice of intent, etc..

It's just part of the process.

So this is all part of what was planned anyway.

We have to get this money out the door and we would be criticized if we sat on it, of course.

So anyway, the exciting news about this is that what we are doing in this case in Lansing, the Grand River Assembly plant was slated to close.

And so what we are doing not just in Lansin but across the country in these industrial sites, is to say, if you convert to electric vehicle manufacturing, we'll give you a grant to help you retool.

And so it's $500 million to help Grand River.

It's it's almost $2 billion overal that we are announcing this week to be able to help retool for electric vehicles.

But some of your critics might also say this EV industr looks a little shaky right now.

Why are you pouring money, perhaps down a rat hole in an easy EV segment that goes go south?

This doesn't go south, though.

It continues to increase.

I mean, it's going north right now.

It is, though.

I mean, you talk to GM, their sales quarter over quarter increase, 40%.

Yeah.

Fords increased 60%.

Compared to zero They haven't been selling zero.

I mean, I've been driving a Chevy Bolt, for example, for years.

So, no, this is what the exciting part is for the first time.

And we haven't had an industrial strategy as a nation.

Right.

All the states you remember when I was governor, we were trying to compete with China.

We're trying to compete with Mexico.

So now you've got a partner in the federal government that says we're going to bring manufacturing back.

And in this case, we know that from all of the analysis that the clean energy sector is going to be a $23 trillion global market by 2030, and you better believe the US should be in the game.

Now.

We passed these bills.

We are the envy of the world because we are getting all of this investment.

In Michigan alone, 52 factories have opened up because of the incentives embedded for manufacturing in the United States, in America.

So for Michigan, this is great news and we're going to continue to do that.

Great news.

So what date do you hit the 50% part of the market is EVs?

Well, the goal is to have 50% of new cars sold by 2030.

And so.

I thought that date changed?

Well, I mean, the OEMs some of the OEMs may have moved it one way or the other.

What are OEM's?

Oh, sorry, the original equipment manufacturer.

Sorry I didn't know that.

You know that, I did not know that.

You know, makers have, you know maybe move their targets around.

But overall, we expect that 50% of new car sold will be electric by 2030.

So the administration is working on this holistic strategy.

Part of it is on the supply side, meaning we want to build all of those vehicle and the guts to those vehicles which include the batteries.

And that's like the Ultium battery factory that is also coming here in Lansin and the guts to the batteries.

But it's also we want to make the demand side, meaning we want to lower the prices of those vehicles so that people buy them.

And so now, because of the incentives embedded in the Inflation Reduction Act, we are seeing that in EVs and internal combustion engines are on pa and in many cases EVs are less depending on the model.

So we want to do that and we want to work on the infrastructure, meaning the charging stations around the country.

All of those pieces are being worked on.

So obviously we do have to talk about politics.

You are inhibited in some way by the Hatch Act, which limits what you can say But let's start out with this.

How does President Whitmer sound to you?

I think she would be a amazing president at some point.

Do you think, if there was a vacancy that she should be considered?

Well, I. I don't want to make any assumptions you talk about right now.

Of course, I don't want to make any assumptions about what's going to be vacant or not.

And I can't talk about it because of the election.

But the bottom line is she is so talented and she's so capable and she's got such a great record.

I think she's got a bright future.

Nobody remembers that.

There was speculation about you for president.

Now I can't because I was born in Canada.

So I have thi constitutional cement ceiling.

You and the Governor of California, remember that?

Yes, I do.

Arnold Schwarzenegger.

But it still went on for a while, didn't it?

Well, it ain't going to happen.

Wasn't going to happen.

But but Governor Whitmer is just incredibly talented.

And she she will go far whatever she wants to do.

When's the last time you saw the president up close and personal?

I want to say about a month ago, we had a bilateral meeting in the White House that I was invited to with Poland.

We have regular cabinet meetings.

We just haven' had them for a couple of months.

But I see him regularly.

And your take?

My take is I am so frustrated by all thi talk because he is on top of it.

It's just really it' so frustrating in so many ways.

But from my perspective as somebody who has to present choices to him, he is he asks.

He's the hardest person to brief because he asks questions that you haven't even anticipated because of his years of service.

He just knows so much.

So when you're going to brie him, you better know your stuff because he knows it better than you do.

So he is on it.

It's so it's so for all of us Cabinet members, it's so frustrating to hear all of this talk as though he he doesn't have it together when in fact, he does.

So what happened the other night?

You know, Tim, you moderated a number of my debates.

I hate debates and debates have the skill of a debate has nothing to do with governing.

And sometimes you just freeze.

Sometimes you just don't have it.

And that happened to me on several occasions.

I just think it didn't it didn't happen for him.

At that moment in the debate when he was fumbling with that answer and said we finally defeated Medicaid.

And what did you think?

I thought to myself.

I thought, Oh my God, I can remember when I have fumbled for words and tried to grasp it.

I mean, I don't know for for you if you've ever fumbled for a word because your words are your business.

But honestly, it happens to people all the time.

And I was it was a bummer that it happened on such a big stage, but he knows what he's talking about.

So is he getting a bum rap.

On this story?

Is the media overplaying this?

Yes.

Yes, yes.

Well, that's an easy thing to say.

The media plays a lot of stuff.

Oh, well, I' glad we're holding up a mirror.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Yeah, I think I think it is.

You know, from just because I have personal experience with him, it is overplayed from our perspective.

I understan because people seeing the debate why they would ask legitimate questions.

But I'm just saying from my experience in seeing hi on a regular basis, it is just that debate was an anomaly for what he does when he governs.

But you are a student of this, okay?

And you've been in the arena, the elected arena.

You know, the problem is the people's attention span here right now.

You know, where am I going with.

Yeah, I mean, it's this it's this long, but could that go either way too.

Well, yes, but if you had 50 million people who saw that.

I know.

Think those 50 million I'll bet go up to the cottage up north and not now following what's going on.

It's the Rorschach test.

And I understand that.

Well, you know I mean, we'll see what happens.

Obviously, I can't, again, talk about the election, but I'm just saying that from m experience, I hope that people give him the benefit of what he has done as president.

I mean, honestly, we got a 3.9% unemployment rate in Michigan, more people employed than ever before.

I mean, I only wis that I were governor at a time when I had a partner like you have right now in Washington, because it is really quite amazing.

I mean, it's you know, it's it's not just in Michigan, it's across the country.

There's over 700 factories that have come back and said that they're opening up.

This has never happened before.

The amount of manufacturing that's going on, the fact tha you have more people nationally working than ever before and the lowest unemployment rate for African-Americans, the lowest unemployment rate for Hispanic Americans.

I mean, it's just the thing after thing.

Today, we're talking on a day when when the inflation rate ticks down again, we have more work to do.

But now it's at 3% or below.

I mean, that's it's just the progress is amazing.

And compared to other countries in terms of our GDP growth and everything, we are the envy of the world.

And it's because of this president.

What scares yo about Donald Trump, if anything?

Oh, my God.

Anyway, I can't talk about the election Tim.

I'm so sorry.

Why Oh my God, though.

I can't.

I just I don't.

if I start talking about him, then it's a violation of th Hatch Act, and I can't do that.

Okay.

You would let me just say this or ask this.

Would you be uncomfortable with him as president?

I was.

And I would be.

Okay.

Where do you go from here after this?

Let's just.

Let's just.

Me personally.

Yeah.

What do you want to be when you grow up?

I have the best job in the entire world.

I thought being governor of Michigan was.

It was great.

It was at a tough time.

This is so wonderful, because, I mean, I actually wrote a book about this.

This is so wonderful because I have a boss who believes that we ought to have industrial policy to compet with those competitors globally.

And he's putting his money where his mouth is.

And it's a thoughtful strategy with an incredible team.

And I just feel so lucky to be there at this time.

From a strategy standpoint, would it be better off if the dialog right now was not about that, but about coming together to get him elected?

I think it is important for people to I think people don't fully realize how much progress is being made on the economy writ large.

And so I do think it's important to have a dialog about.

Well you guys have done a lousy job.

My word, nor yours of selling this.

I mean.

You're well, that's why I'm here Tim.

Yeah but your three and a half years into the mission and everybody still sits there.

And he said, well, we the nobody knows what we're doing, right?

We're trying.

We're trying.

I mean, there's I mean, I'm just saying that the facts out there on the ground, the fact that he has created 15.7 million jobs more than any president in the history of the United States, by far more than his predecessor.

Even if you take out COVID, I mean, the the GDP growth by far more than previous president, even if you take out COVID I mean, there's just the factor after factor after factor is amazing.

And I hope people take a full look at his record.

What do you miss about the gig back here?

You know what?

It's funny you ask.

I miss being in Lansing, honestly, I love Lansing as a city.

I just ran alon Moore's River Trail last night Where you used to live.

Where I used to live.

And I just.

It's so fantastic.

I just love this place.

Well, you may love the place, but do you miss the action under the dome?

I miss talking to you, Tim.

Continue with your answer.

Okay.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

It's very kind of you.

I liked, I mean I really enjoyed being governor because you felt like you could have impact.

And it was governors have their finger on the pulse and all of that.

And so I miss that.

Of course, I was governor.

It is such a different time.

And the circumstance is were so, so very different.

But it would be fu to be governor at these times.

Finally if you had one thing, do a redo when you were in office, what would you do?

Oh, my Goodness.

I've never been asked that before.

Wow.

If I had a redo, I'll have to think about that.

How about leaving the auto industry out of bankruptcy?

Why would I do that as a redo?

I think it's.

You mean, how about leaving them out of bankruptcy?

Meaning don't resuscitate?

Yeah.

Absolutely not.

We want to resuscitate the auto industry and look what's happening today as a result.

You know, Finally, do you miss Mike Bishop?

Some people I miss a lot.

I wouldn't put him at the top, but it's good to see you.

Great to see you too Tim.

Take Care.

Thanks.

Mike Bishop was the Senate Republican leader the governor had issues with.

Thanks for watching.

We'll see you next week.

For more off the record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible, in part by Martin Waymire, a full service strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement to learn more at martinwaymire.com For mor off the record, visit WKAR.org Michigan public television stations have contributed to the production costs of off the record.