♪♪ >> O'Connell: I'M SUE O'CONNELL IN FOR JIM BRAUDE, AND TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," HEY, TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR ACTION ON BEACON HILL FOR SOME BIG PRIORITY ISSUES.

AMONG THEM: SECURING ABORTION ACCESS AND FUNDING OUR COLLECTIVE LIVES FOR THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR.

ADAM REILLY AND KATIE LANNAN WILL JOIN ME ON THE STICKING POINT AND LIKELY PASS FORWARD FOR THOSE ISSUES AND MORE.

THEN, REMARKABLE NEW IMAGES OF GALAXIES FAR, FAR AWAY, FARTHER THAN EVER BEFORE, IN FACT.

ALL THANKS TO AN AMBITIOUS NEW TELESCOPE.

THAT'S THE FOCUS OF A NEW NOVA DOCUMENTARY.

I'M JOINED BY THE FILM'S DIRECTOR AND A NASA ASTROPHYSICIST ON WHAT WE HOPE TO SEE AND LEARN.. >> O'CONNELL: WITH JIM OUT TODAY, I'D LIKE TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PICK UP THE BATON ON ONE OF HIS FAVORITE COMPLAINTS OF THE SEASON: THE STATE LEGISLATURE'S BIENNIAL MULTI-MONTH BREAK, BEFORE WHICH THEY RUSH TO FINISH ALL THAT WASN'T DONE IN THE TWO YEARS PRIOR.

AND THIS YEAR, THERE ARE SOME REALLY BIG ONES.

AMONG THEM, A BUDGET DEAL FOR THE FISCAL YEAR THAT BEGAN 12 DAYS AGO; A BILL AIMED AT EXPANDING ACCESS TO PUBLIC MEETINGS, AND PROTECTIONS FOR OUT-OF-STATE PATIENTS SEEKING ABORTIONS, AND THOSE WHO TREAT THEM, NOW THAT ROE HAS BEEN OVERTURNED.

AND ON THAT LAST POINT, THERE ARE SOME BIG DIVIDES BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

SO WHAT WILL THEY GET DONE BEFORE THE CLOCK RUNS OUT?

AND WHAT WILL GET PUSHED DOWN THE ROAD EVEN FURTHER?

I'M JOINED BY GBH NEWS REPORTER AND HOST OF "TALKING POLITICS," ADAM REILLY, AND NEW GBH NEWS STATE HOUSE REPORTER KATIE LANNAN.

>> O'Connell: I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET INTO HOW FRUSTRATING THIS IS TO ME EVERY SINGLE YEAR, ABOUT HOW THEY'RE SURPRISED THERE IS A DEADLINE AND THINGS DON'T GET DONE, RIGHT?

BUT, LOOK, THERE ARE SOME REALLY -- NOT THAT THERE AREN'T EVERY YEAR -- BUT THIS YEAR THERE ARE REALLY URGENT ISSUES, ESPECIALLY AROUND ABORTION.

ADAM, I WANT TO SHOW US FIRST A LETTER THAT SENATE PRESIDENT KAREN FILLCO SENT OUT REGARDING TRYING TO BRING TOGETHER THE HOUSE AND SENATE COLLEAGUES.

WE WRITE TO URGE -- SAYING WE WRITE TO URGE OUR SENATE COLLEAGUES TO ACCEPT THE HOUSE PROVISIONS IN H49.

SPECIFICALLY THE MEASURES THAT CLARIFY THE STATUTORY FRAMEWORK FOR ABORTION AND EXPAND ACCESS TO EMERGENCY CONTRACEPTION IN AN IMMEDIATE AND ACCESSIBLE FASHION."

THEY NEED TO BE REACHED OUT TO TO COME TO A CONCLUSION AND BE LED IN THE RIGHT WAY.

ADAM, WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THIS?

>> WHAT I THINK IS REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS THERE IS THIS STEREOTYPE THAT HELD TRUE ABOUT THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE AND THE LEGISLATURE.

IN ALL OF THE YEARS I'VE COME THEM, THE HOUSE IS MORE CONSERVATIVE, AND THE NO ONE IS UNAB BASHEDLY READY TO DO THINGS.

IT IS EVIDENCE OF THE FACT IS NO LONGER THE CASE.

THAT LETTER WAS WRITTEN BY KATE HOGAN, I BELIEVE SHE IS THE SECOND RANKING DEMOCRAT IN THE HOUSE.

WHAT SHE WANTS TO DO IS CHANGE STATE LAW SO THAT YOU CAN GET A LATE-TERM ABORTION IF THE FETUS HAS NOT JUST LETHAL ABNORMALITIES, BUT FETAL ABNORMALITIES.

AND TO RESPECT THE RIGHT OF WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD TO LEAVE MASSACHUSETTS TO GET AN ABORTION AS THEY FIGURE OUT HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK.

IT IS, AS YOU HINTED AT, REALLY UNUSUAL TO SEE ONE CHAMBER CALL OUT THE OTHER, NOT AS A SNIDE AS SIDE, BUT IN DETAILED PUBLIC.

THAT LETTER WAS SIGNED BY CLOSE TO 100 OF HOGAN'S COLLEAGUES IN THE HOUSE.

I THINK IT IS A FASCINATING ATTEMPT OF HOW EXPECTATIONS ABOUT OF LEGISLATURE ARE BEING SUBVERTED AT THIS TIME.

>> O'Connell: KATIE, PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS SURPRISED THAT THIS SENATE IN MASSACHUSETTS IS ALWAYS SLOW IN GETTING THINGS DONE.

I THINK IT IS SAFE TO SAY I THINK MOST LAWMAKERS BELIEVE THERE IS A SENSE OF URGENCY.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM SENATORS REGARDING THESE PROPOSALS AND FROM REPRESENTATIVES?

ARE THEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER TO GET A PROGRESSIVE EXPANDED PROTECTION THROUGH BEFORE THE DEADLINE?

>> THAT'S REALLY THE BIG QUESTION HERE IS: ARE THEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET IT DONE?

THE SENATORS LIKE LIAR THEIR BILL IN PART BECAUSE THEY THINK IT WILL ADDRESS POTENTIAL CONCERNS FROM GOVERNOR BAKER, WHO HAS VETOED ABORTION LEGISLATION BEFORE BECAUSE OF THE CONCERNS HE HAS AROUND ABORTIONS LATER IN PREGNANCY.

THE SENATORS THINK WITH THE CLOCK TICKING, AND JULY 31 IS WHEN LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS END, BUT IF THEY WANT TO GIVE THEMSELVES TIME TO RESPOND TO ANY AMENDMENTS, TO OVERRIDE A POTENTIAL VETO FOR THE GOVERNOR, THE NO ONE IS SAYING THAT KEEPING THAT LATER PREGNANCY ABORTION LANGUAGE OUT AND COMING BACK TO IT LATER ON IS THE SAFEST MOVE FOR NOW TO ALMOST BETTER THEIR ODDS OF GETTING SOMETHING OVER THE FINISH LINE.

THE SENATE TODAY ANNOUNCED A WORTHING GROUP THAT IS GOING TO PLAN TO EXPLORE THAT OR OTHER ISSUES FOR MAYBE LONGER-TERM FUTURE ACTION AFTER THIS SUMMER.

>> O'Connell: ADAM, JUST QUICKLY, DO YOU THINK THAT THE VOTERS OF MASSACHUSETTS -- WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH?

DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH A COMPRISED BILL THAT BAKER WOULD SIGN?

OR SOMETHING THAT IS MORE AGGRESSIVE AND PROGRESSIVE THAT BAKER WOULD VETO?

>> I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, I'M NOT UP TO SPEED ON THE LATEST POLLING AROUND THIS ISSUE.

BUT I THINK I CAN SAY -- KATIE TELL ME IF I'M WRONG -- WHAT ADVOCATES WANT TO SEE, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PUSHING FOR MASSACHUSETTS TO MOVE IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION NOW THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS TAKEN AWAY THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO AN ABORTION.

THEY REALLY WANT TO SEE THE MEASURES THAT THE HOUSE IS PUSHING EMBRACED.

TO HARKEN BACK, SUE, TO YOUR ORIGINAL POINT: ONE REASON YOU DON'T PUT OFF-tg ABSOLUTE POSSIBLE LAST MINUTE IS BECAUSE IF YOU DO AND SOMETHING UNEXPECTED HAPPENS, THEN IT BECOMES DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO DEAL WITH.

THE SENATE IS WORRIED ABOUT HAVING TIME TO OVERRIDE THE VETO.

THAT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN AS MUCH OF A CONCERN IF THEY DID A LITTLE MORE OF THIS STUFF A LITTLE EARLIER ON.

>> O'Connell: KATIE, LET'S TALK ABOUT SPORTS BETTING, I KNOW THIS ISN'T AS URGENT, BUT THIS IS ONE I FEEL LIKE I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR DECADES.

AS MASSACHUSETTS AS LEGALIZED SPORTS BETTING, AND ARE BRAGGING ABOUT THE REVENUE THEY'RE BRINGING IN, WHERE ARE THE LAWMAKERS IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE ON LEGALIZED BETTING?

>> BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE HAVE PASSED BILLS THAT WOULD LEGALIZE SPORTS BETTING.

THAT IS ONE OF THE BILLS I'M MOST OFTEN ASKED ABOUT WHEN I'M TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO AREN'T SPENDING ALL OF THEIR DAYS IN THE STATE HOUSE.

BUT THE BILLS ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

AND THEY ARE ONE OF SEVERAL PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT ARE IN CONFERENCE COMMITTEES RIGHT NOW.

SO IT IS A GROUP OF THREE SENATORS, THREE REPRESENTATIVES, CONDUCTING CLOSED-DOOR NEGOTIATIONS THAT WE REALLY CAN'T TELL HOW THINGS ARE GOING AT THAT POINT.

LIKE, ABORTION LEGISLATION, LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, IT HAS GOT TO BE DONE BY JULY 31st IF IT IS GOING TO GET DONE.

AND A WHILE AGO, SPEAKER MARIANO, WHEN WE ASKED HIM ABOUT WHERE THINGS WERE, HE SAID THAT BOTH SIDE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO BE WILLING TO MOVE TO GET A TO A DEAL.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY MIGHT HAVE MOVED AT THIS POINT.

ONE OF THE BIG STICKING POINTS IS AROUND COLLEGE SPORTS, BETTING WHETHER OR NOT TO AUTHORIZE THAT.

AND THERE ARE ALSO DIFFERENT TAX RATES AND CONSUMER PROTECTION MEASURES AT PLAY HERE.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF PARTS THAT NEED TO BE IRONED OUT.

>> O'Connell: ADAM, THERE DOESN'T -- AGAIN, SINCE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR MANY YEARS, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE IS A HECK OF A BIG DEMAND FOR VOTERS TO GET THIS DONE, ALTHOUGH PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ALL OF THE TIME.

HERE WE ARE.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A BIG DEMAND OR NOT.

AS KATIE JUST MENTIONED, SHE HAS ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE CARE A LOT ABOUT THIS.

IT SEEMS THAT IT IS SOMETHING OF INTENSE INTEREST TO THE PEOPLE, AND MAYBE SOME ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE FROM GBH, THAT WHEN WE RUN STORIES, PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN READ THEM.

BUT KAREN SPILCA SAID SOMETHING A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, AND SHE ESSENTIALLY SAID PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT THIS.

WHEN I GO OUT IN MY DISTRICT AND TALK TO VOTERS, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THEY'RE ASKING ABOUT.

IF YOU'RE TAKING BETS ON WHAT IS AND ISN'T GOING TO GET DONE BY THE END OF THE SESSION, THE FACT SHE FEELS THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE AT TOP OF MIND OR OF CONCERN TO VOTERS, IT IS PROBABLY A REASON TO PUT IT ON YOUR "MAYBE THEY WON'T GET THIS DONE" LIST.

>> O'Connell: ONE THING THEY HAVE TO GET DONE IS THE BUDGET.

WE HAVE TAX RELIEF ISSUES.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT THE BUDGET PROCESS, AND WHAT IS ON THE TABLE FOR TAX RELIEF FOR WHO?

>> YEAH.

THE BUDGET PROCESS IS ANOTHER BLACK BOX CONFERENCE COMMITTEE SITUATION.

WE'RE HEARING THAT THEY MIGHT BE GETTING SOMEWHAT CLOSE TO A DEAL.

NO WHAT "CLOSE" MEANS WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT $50 BILLION COULD BE ANY NUMBER OF THINGS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE STATE IS NOT AT RISK OF ANY SORT OF GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN OR ANYTHING OF THE LIKE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A TEMPORARY BUDGET IN PLACE THAT RUNS THROUGH THE END OF JULY, WHICH KEEPS SERVICES OPERATIONAL, AND ALSO REMOVES SOME OF THE INCENTIVES TO GET A DEAL DONE QUICKLY ONCE YOU'RE ALREADY IN JULY.

TAX RELIEF IS A SEPARATE MATTER, ALTHOUGH LEGISLATURE OPTED TO KEEP THAT OUT OF THE BUDGET.

THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE HAVE ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THEY HAVE REACHED A DEAL ON SOME OF THE MEASURES.

SOME OF THE DEALS INCLUDE ONE-TIME REBATES FOR KIND OF MIDDLE INCOME TAXPAYERS, IS WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO TARGET.

THERE IS ALSO RELIEF THAT THEY'RE EYEING FOR RENTERS, FOR SENIORS, FOR LOW INCOME WORKERS, TO PARENTS WITH CHILDREN.

AND ONE OF THE MORE CONTROVERSIAL PIECES SO FAR HAS BEEN THAT THEY ARE AGREEING WITH GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER AND LOOKING TO REFORM THE ESTATE TAX IN SOME WAY, SOMETHING THAT MORE PROGRESSIVE ADVOCATES TEND TO CRITICIZE AS A BREAK FOR THE WEALTHIEST SUPPORTERS, DEALING WITH THAT INHERITANCE TAX, OF REFORMING IT AND POINT TO THE RISING HOME VALUES ACROSS MASSACHUSETTS.

SOMEONE WHO HAS THOUGHT OF THEMSELVES AS MIDDLE CLASS FOR YEARS MIGHT BE SURPRISED TO FIND OUT THAT THEIR HOME IS NOW WORTH A MILLION DOLLARS, AND THEIR HEIRS ARE GOING TO BE TAXED ON THAT VALUE.

>> O'Connell: ODDLY, I KNOW EVERYBODY ALWAYS THINKS THEY'RE GOING TO GROW UP TO AND A MILLIONAIRE, AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE ACCIDENTALLY HAVE.

ADAM, WE'RE INTO THE JUNIOR YEAR OF THE PANDEMIC YEAR.

WE'RE ALL VIRTUAL.

IT STILL SEEMS THAT LAWMAKERS ARE TRYING TO CATCH UP TO WHERE HUMANS ARE AND HOW WER -- WE'RE WORKING.

ANY PREDICTIONS OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE ARCANE LAWS WE ALL CARE ABOUT.

>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT BOTH CHAMBERS AGREE THAT WE NEED TO MAINTAIN THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN PUBLIC MEETINGS, NOT JUST BY GOING THERE IN PERSON, BUT ALSO BY LOGGING IN AND HAVING VIDEO AND AUDIO ACCESS, AS WE HAD DURING THE PANDEMIC.

WHILE THERE IS BROAD AGREEMENT, THEIR MECHANICS OR MECHANISMS FOR GETTING TO A POINT WHERE THAT ACCESS IS EXTENDED, THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCES, WHICH, AGAIN, NEED TO BE HASHED OUT, ALONG WITH EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS HAPPENING AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

THEIR OVERWHELMING TO-DO LIST.

I WOULD SAY THAT THE FACT THAT THERE IS STRONG CONSENSUS THAT WE JUST CAN'T KEEP OPERATING THE WAY WE USED TO, WHEN YOU HAD TO ACTUALLY GO TO THE STATE HOUSE IF YOU WANTED TO CATCH ONE OF THE MEETINGS THAT WE WERE ALLOWED TO CATCH.

I THINK ULTIMATELY SOMETHING IS GOING TO GET DONE.

MIGHT GET DONE THIS SESSION, AND IF NOT, EARLY NEXT SESSION.

BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR KATIE'S TAKE?

>> O'Connell: GO AHEAD, KATIE.

>> THERE IS A CLOSER DEADLINE, SOME OF THE PANDEMIC AUTH AUTHOR AUTHORIZATIONS END ON FRIDAY.

WHEN THEY ULTIMATELY AGREED, THEY DID IT RETROACTIVELY TO COVER THE TIMES THAT HAD ALREADY PASSED.

EVEN IF THE CALENDAR TURNS TO FRIDAY AND THEY HAVEN'T REACHED A DEAL ON HOW LONG TO EXTEND THAT AUTHORIZATION, AND THERE ARE ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS ABOUT NOTARY SERVICES AND REMOTE NOTARIES THAT IS WRAPPED UP IN THIS -- >> O'Connell: IT IS KIND OF LIKE THE PRODUCTION FROM OUT OF SPACE WE'RE SEEING -- >> IT IS BEAUTIFUL AND HUMBLING.

CAN >> O'CONNELL: ADAM REILLY, KATIE LANNAN, THANKS.

NEXT UP, WE GOT AN EYE-POPPING NEW VIEW OF THE COSMOS THIS WEEK, THANKS TO THE FIRST IMAGES FROM A POWERFUL NEW TELESCOPE THAT LETS US SEE FARTHER INTO THE DEPTHS OF THE UNIVERSE, AND FURTHER BACK IN TIME THAN WE EVER HAVE BEFORE.

>> ONE OF THE AMAZING THINGS ABOUT TELESCOPES IS THAT THEY ARE LITERALLY TIME MACHINES.

THEY ALLOW US TO SEE THE UNIVERSE AS IT WAS IN THE DISTANT PAST.

THE NEAREST STAR TO US IS FOUR LIGHT YEARS AWAY.

THAT MEANS LIGHT HAS TAKEN FOUR YEARS TO ARRIVE TO US.

WE ARE ACTUALLY ABLE TO SEE IN THE PAST BY LOOKING AT DISTANT GALAXIES, BECAUSE THAT LIGHT LEFT SO LONG AGO WE'RE SEEING THEM AS THEY WERE IN THE PAST.

>> O'CONNELL: AND NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THIS NEW TELESCOPE IS ABLE TO COLLECT THESE BEAUTIFUL, DETAILED IMAGES FAR FASTER THAN THE OLDER TECHNOLOGY.

>> THIS IS AN ENGINEERING IMAGE THAT WAS REALLY THERE JUST TO SAY WE FOCUSED IT RIGHT, AND THERE'S A LOT OF GALAXIES!

THE ENGINEERS WERE LIKE: WHAT ARE ALL THOSE GALAXIES DOING THERE?

WE'RE REALIZING WE'RE THE FIRST PEOPLE WHO HAVE EVER SEEN THESE GALAXIES.

SINCE THE FIRST HUBBLE DEEPFIELDS IN THE '90S WHERE HUBBLE JUST STARED AT AN EMPTY PATCH OF THE SKY FOR DAYS AT A TIME AND MADE THIS BEAUTIFUL DEEPFIELD, WE JUST DID THAT IN UNDER AN HOUR.

WHAT THAT MAKES POSSIBLE IS THAT EVERY FIELD'S A DEEPFIELD.

THERE ARE OBSERVATIONS PLANNED THAT ARE WEEKS LONG INSTEAD OF JUST AN HOUR.

EVERYTHING I'VE SEEN ABOUT THESE IMAGES THAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR TELLS US ABSOLUTELY, THIS THING IS GOING TO BE FANTASTIC.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE, BUT WE KNOW WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE.

THIS IS GOING TO BE TRANSFORMATIVE.

THIS IS LOOKING AMAZING.

>> O'CONNELL: AND IT'S ALL MADE POSSIBLE BY THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE, A 30-YEAR, $10 BILLION PROJECT CHRONICLED IN "NOVA'S" LATEST DOCUMENTARY, "ULTIMATE SPACE TELESCOPE," WHICH PREMIERES TONIGHT.

I'M JOINED BY THE DIRECTOR, TERRI RANDALL, AND DOCTOR KNICOLE COLOÓN, AN ASTROPHYSICIST WITH NASA, AND WEBB DEPUTY PROJECT SCIENTIST FOR EXOPLANET SCIENCE.

>> O'Connell: DR. COLON, I WANT TO START WITH YOU FIRST.

EVERY DAY I COME HOME FROM WORK AND I SIT WITH MY DAUD AND WE TALK ABOUT THE NEWS OF THE DAY.

AND SHE ASKS ME TO DESCRIBE WHAT WE SAW.

AND I SAY IT IS THE PAST AND THE FUTURE, AND IT IS LIKE WHEN THEY OPEN THE LOCKER AND EVERYBODY IS IN THERE.

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IS IT WE'RE LOOKING?

>> WHEN WE HAVE A TELESCOPE LIKE THIS, IT IS ALMOST LIKE A TIME MACHINE.

WE CAN LOOK AT THESE GALAXIES.

WE TOOK THESE IMAGES, YOU KNOW, LAST MONTH.

BUT THE LIGHT IN THOSE IMAGES TOOK 13 BILLION YEARS TO GET TO OUR TELESCOPE.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY FORMED IN THE EARLY UNIVERSE.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE NOW, THOSE GALAXIES ARE PROBABLY NOT THERE TODAY.

THEY PROBABLY HAVE ALREADY MERGED AND DONE THINGS WHERE THEY CAUSED STARS TO FORM AND DIE AND ALL OF THAT.

BUT WE CAN CAPTURE THEIR LIGHT BECAUSE IT JUST GOT TO US FROM BACK WHEN THEY FIRST FORMED.

>> O'Connell: CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME HOW -- DID THIS JUST, LIKE, HAPPEN?

I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN HUNDREDS OF YEARS IN THE MAKING, BUT EVERYONE SEEMS SO AMAZED THAT THIS IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

IS THAT ALL TRUE?

LIKE, IT JUST HAPPENED?

IT WORKED, AND NOW WE'RE SHOCKED TO SEE HOW BEAUTIFUL AND VAST THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING IS WITHOUT US HAVING KNOWN BEFORE?

>> WELL, WHENEVER WE DEVELOP ANY NEW TELESCOPE, INCLUDING THE JAMES WEBB TELESCOPE, WE DEFINITELY PREDICT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE.

THIS TELESCOPE WAS DESIGNED TO SEE SOME OF THE EARLY LIGHT FROM THE UNIVERSE.

BUT WHAT WE DON'T ALWAYS EXPECT IS HOW GOOD THINGS WILL WORK UP IN SPACE.

THE LAUNCH HAS TO GO PERFECTLY, ALL OF THE DEPLOYMENTS HAVE TO GO PERFECTLY.

THE MIRRORS HAVE TO BE REALLY CLEAN.

WE CAN COLLECT IMAGES SOMETIMES BETTER THAN WE EXPECTED.

AND SO THANKS TO THE WORK OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING SO MANY ENGINEERS AND SCIENTISTS, THAT HAS LED US TO THIS POINT TODAY.

>> O'Connell: TERRI RANDALL, TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR REACTION.

OBVIOUSLY YOU'VE BEEN VERY IMMERSED, IF YOU WILL, IN THESE ISSUES AND IN THE SCIENCE.

BUT WHEN YOU SAW THESE PHOTOS AND IMAGES THAT WERE COMING UP, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION?

>> WELL, RELIEF FOR THE TEAM THAT EVERYTHING WAS WORKING.

BECAUSE UNTIL THEY, YOU KNOW, START TAKING THOSE PICTURES, I MEAN THIS IS SUCH AN ENGINEERING MARVEL, AND IT IS SUCH A FEAT OF ENGINEERING, AND THEY HAD SO MANY YEARS OF UPS AND DOWNS THAT ONCE IT WAS LAUNCHED, WE WERE EXCITED.

ONCE IT WAS TWO WEEKS OF DEPLOYMENT, EVERYBODY WAS ON EDGE.

IT IS WONDERFUL TO SEE WHAT THEY'VE ACCOMPLISHED.

>> O'Connell: TALK TO ME -- TERRI, TALK TO ME ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF THIS TELESCOPE AND SOME OF THE COMPARISONS BETWEEN WHAT WE HAD AND WHAT WE WERE RELYING ON AND WHAT THIS TELESCOPE CAN DO VERSUS THE OTHER TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE?

AND I SAY "WE" LIKE I WAS INVOLVED IN IT, RIGHT?

[LAUGHTER] >> WE TALK IN THE PROGRAM THAT THE MIRROR IS HUGE IN COMPARISON TO HUBBLE.

IT IS A MILLION MILES FROM EARTH, SO IT IS A POSITION WHERE IT CAN GET IMAGES LIKE THIS THAT ARE VERY HARD TO GET.

AND IT'S GOT THIS HUGE SUN SHIELD THAT IS SHIELDING IT FROM THE LIGHT OF THE EARTH AND THE MOON AND THE SUN.

SO IT REALLY CAN PEER DEEPLY INTO SPACE.

AND THOSE THINGS REALLY MAKE IT TOTALLY UNIQUE.

>> O'Connell: AND HOW DOES THIS CONTRIBUTE -- OBVIOUSLY, I KNOW THAT SCIENTISTS BOTH LOVE TO BE PROVEN RIGHT AND PROVEN WRONG BECAUSE IT HELPS THEM TO ADVANCE DISCOVERY AND SCIENCE, AND THIS HELPS TO PROVE THEM RIGHT, THE WEBB, COMPARED TO THE HUBBLE, WHAT THE HUBBLE SAW, AND HOW DOES THIS CONTRIBUTE OVERALL TO OUR SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE SCIENTISTS WERE TELLING ME OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS THIS IS THE FUTURE OF SPACE SCIENCE IN THE COMMUNITY, AROUND THE WORLD.

SO IF IT DIDN'T WORK, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DISASTER FOR THEM.

BUT THE FACT THAT IT IS WORKING BETTER THAN THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO WORK -- I THINK THERE ARE QUESTIONS -- AS THEY TELL ME ALL OF THE TIME, THERE ARE QUESTIONS THEY HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN TO POSE ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO START TO LEARN AND WHAT QUESTIONS WILL COME UP BASED ON WHAT THEY LEARNED.

BUT I DON'T THINK THERE IS AN AREA OF SPACE SCIENCE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO COVER WITH THIS TELESCOPE.

>> O'Connell: NICOLE, I KEPT HEARING OVER AND OVER ABOUT THIS GRAIN OF SAND THAT FOLKS WERE LOOKING AT, AND I GOT LOST ON THAT PART, AND ALSO LEARNING THAT THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO BE SEEN, THIS IS JUST A TINY GRAIN OF SAND.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND HOW MUCH OF IT WE'RE SEEING?

AND THIS DEEP-VIEW PART, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT, TOO?

>> YEAH.

I THINK IT IS -- ANOTHER ANALOGY I HEARD IS: IMAGINE HOLDING UP YOUR HAND EXTENDED TO THE SKY, AND YOU PUT YOUR THUMB PRINT, THAT PART OF THE SKY YOU COVER WITH YOUR FINGERTIP IS THE SIZE OF THE DEEP FIELD.

SO IMAGINE HOW MANY PARTS OF THE SKY THERE ARE.

THERE ARE THAT MANY GALAXIES TIMES THAT MANY PARTS OF THE SKIES.

IT IS TRILLIONS OF GOOD LUCK, EVERYBODYGALAXIES.SO WEBB HAS LOOKED AT THE FEW IMAGES, AND INCLUDING THE DEEP FIELD, BUT WITH THE EMERGING GALAXIES, THERE ARE A BUNCH OF GALAXIES BEHIND THERE PHOTO BOMBING THAT QUINTETTE.

ALMOST EVERY IMAGE IS A DEEP FIELD.

>> O'Connell: TERRI, LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS WORLD OF SPACE IMAGE AND SPACE SCIENCE.

I VIVIDLY RECALL WHEN I WAS SIX AND WE LANDED ON THE MOON.

AND NASA AND THE SPACE RACE, AND THEN THERE WAS THE PERIOD WHERE IT SEEMED IT WAS NOT GOING TO BE A PRIORITY.

AND THERE HAS BEEN ALL OF THESE BUDGET DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHERE IT SHOULD GO AND WHERE IT SHOULDN'TMENT AND NOWSHOULDN'T.

AND NOW WE HAVE THIS PRIVATE INDUSTRY OF SPACE BUSINESS WHICH IS LEADING, IN SOME WAYS, THE SPACE INDUSTRY.

WHAT DOES IT DO FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON ABOUT WHAT WE SHOULD BE FUNDING?

WHEN THEY WATCH NOVA, WHEN THEY WATCH THE THINK THEY'LL COME AWAY WITH?

>> HOPEFULLY THEY'LL BE INSPIRED BY JUST THE SHEAR BEAUTY OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING, AND INSPIRED, I THINK, BY A TEAM OF RESEARCHERS FROM AROUND THE WORLD WHO CAME TOGETHER, AND COULD WORK TOGETHER REGARDLESS OF LANGUAGE OR BACKGROUND, AND COULD DO SOMETHING SO DIFFICULT AND MAKE IT WORK.

SO I'M INSPIRED BY THIS GROUP EFFORT.

AND I THINK THIS CAN BE DONE IN MANY DIFFERENT AREAS OF PROBLEMS THAT WE FACE.

I THINK SCIENCE IS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

>> O'Connell: NICOLE, I WAS ALSO STRUCK BY WATCHING NASA REACH OUT TO SO MANY VIEWERS ACROSS THE WORLD WHEN THESE PICTURES WERE REVEALED, AND SEEING THE JOY AND THE EXCITEMENT.

IT MUST FEEL SO GREAT TO BE CONNECTED TO PEOPLE REACTING IN THAT WAY.

>> YEAH.

I CAN'T EVEN PUT IT INTO WORDS.

YOU KNOW, IT'S SO -- IT'S SO HUMBLING, REALLY, TO SEE REACTIONS FROM, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST FRIENDS AND FAMILY, BUT, LIKE YOU SAID, THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, THE PUBLIC, HUMANS, RIGHT?

AS A SOCIETY, THEY CAN APPRECIATE THE BEAUTY OF THE UNIVERSE WITH WEBB AND THESE FIRST IMAGES.

THERE IS JUST SO MUCH JOY THAT WE WANT TO SHARE BECAUSE THIS IS A TELESCOPE FOR EVERYBODY TO UNDERSTAND OUR UNIVERSE.

THE SCIENTISTS, YEAH, WE USE THE DATA.

WE GET THE IMAGES, WE ANALYZE THEM, BUT IT IS ALL SO WE CAN COMMUNICATE TO THE PUBLIC WHAT WE LEARN, RIGHT?

AND WHAT THAT MEANS ABOUT OUR PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE.

>> O'Connell: TERRI, THERE WAS THAT MOMENT, OF COURSE, IN THE '60s, THE LITTLE BLUE DOT, WHEN ASTRONAUTS IN SPACE SAW THE EARTH, AND WE SAW OURSELVES FOR THE FIRST TIME, WHERE WE WERE IN RELATION TO THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE AND THE GALAXY.

OBVIOUSLY, THE '60s WERE A VERY DIVISIVE TIME.

WE'RE IN A VERY DIVISIVE TIME RIGHT NOW.

DO YOU THINK THIS SHARED EXPERIENCE, THIS WORKING ON THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE AND SEEING THESE PHOTOS, DO YOU THINK THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HUMANITY TO SEE WHERE WE ARE AND MAYBE FIND SOME UNITY?

>> I HOPE SO.

I THINK THAT SCIENTISTS -- YOU KNOW, SEEING THESE TEAMS, AND OVER THE NEXT MANY YEARS, 10 TO 20 YEARS TEAMS AROUND THE WORLD ARE WORKING TOGETHER.

WHAT THEY CALL THE EARLY RELEASE SCIENCE, WHICH THEY WILL BE STARTING, I THINK, EVEN TOMORROW.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE TEAMS, THERE ARE MEMBERS PARTICULAR -- FROM EVERYWHERE, AND THEY'RE COMING TOGETHER ON ZOOM OR IN PERSON TO WORK TOGETHER.

SO IT IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF COOPERATION.

>> O'Connell: HOW LONG WERE YOU WORKING ON ULTIMATE SPACE TELESCOPE?

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING ON THE PROGRAM?

>> ACTIVELY FOR ABOUT A YEAR.

BUT NOVA STARTED LOOKING INTO IT IN 2017.

BUT, AS YOU KNOW, IT WAS DELAYED, SO WE WERE VERY, VERY HAPPY THAT 2021 WORKED OUT BECAUSE WE HAD STARTED WORKING ON THE FILM, AND THEN THE LAUNCH WAS DELAYED AND IT WAS DELAYED.

AND IT WAS, LIKE, WE REALLY STARTED THIS AT THE RIGHT TIME.

NICOLE KNOWS THIS AS WELL.

>> O'Connell: I CAN ONLY IMAGINE.

AND CERTAINLY HAVING A POSITIVE RESULT CERTAINLY HELPS AS WELL, NOT JUST FOR ALL OF US.

NICOLE, ONE THING I'VE BEEN FASCINATED ABOUT LEARNING OVER THE PANDEMIC AND ALL OF THE READING I'VE BEEN DOING ABOUT HOW DIFFERENTLY EVERYBODY VIEWS -- INCLUDING ALL SPECIES -- VIEW THINGS.

HOW ANIMALS SEE DIFFERENT COLORS, HOW WE HAVE DIFFERENT FEELINGS.

HOW MY HEARTBEAT AND MY BLOOD PRESSURE IMPACTS WHAT I'M SEEING.

THIS STRUCT STRUCK ME AS AN HALLUCINATION, SEEING THINGS WE COULDN'T SEE BEFORE, OPENS UP THE POSSIBILITY OF WHAT WE COULD NOT SEE BEFORE.

IS THAT EXCITING, SCARY?

WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE ENORMITY OF THAT?

>> IT IS DEFINITELY FASCINATING TO ME.

ONE THING I DIDN'T REALIZE EVEN MYSELF, OR I DIDN'T APPRECIATE IT -- LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, WE ARE LITERALLY SEEING THINGS IN A NEW WAY WITH THIS TELESCOPE.

OUR RANGE OF COLORS IN THE REAL LIGHT IS VERY LIMITED, ACTUALLY.

SURE, WE HAVE A LOT OF COLORS, BUT IT IS A TINY PART OF WHAT WE CALL THE ELECTROMAGNETIC SPECTRUM.

SO THE LIGHT THAT THE WEBB CAN ACCESS, IT COVERS SO MANY MORE COLORS, IF YOU WILL, AND WE DON'T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH COLORS TO RELATE TO THAT.

WE GET TO SEE SO MUCH MORE INFORMATION IT IS ALMOST OVERWHELMING, BUT IN A GOOD WAY.

[LAUGHTER] >> O'Connell: I'M GOING TO KEEP THAT POSITIVE VIEWPOINT THAT IT IS A GOOD THING.

I'LL BE CERTAINLY WATCHING TONIGHT, TERRI, NOVA'S ULTIMATE SPACE TELESCOPE IS ON TONIGHT, AND ONLINE AT pbs.org/Nova.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> O'Connell: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH