"GREATER BOSTON": I'M ADAM REILLY, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

SOME SHAKE-UPS IN THE RACE FOR MAYOR, WITH JON SANTIAGO DROPPING OUT AND THE CITY'S FATHER AND SON POLIÍTICO DUO, FELIX AND RICARDO ARROYO, THROWING THEIR SUPPORT BEHIND KIM JANEY.

"GLOBE" COLUMNIST MARCELA GARCIA AND THE "BAY STATE BANNER'S" YAWU MILLER WILL HELP ME BREAK IT ALL DOWN.

THEN, LATER, THE DOCUMENTARY "THE LAST PIG," THE STORY OF A LIVESTOCK FARMER WHO BECOMES VEGAN AND DECIDES TO FARM VEGETABLES INSTEAD.

THE FARMER AND THE FILM MAKER JOIN ME.

♪♪ >> Reilly: THE RACE FOR MAYOR OF BOSTON GOT A LITTLE BIT SMALLER THIS WEEK WHEN STATE REPRESENTATIVE JON SANTIAGO POSTED THIS MESSAGE TO SOCIAL MEDIA: "IT WAS WITH A SINCERE DESIRE TO SERVE BOSTON IN A GREATER CAPACITY THAT I JUMPED IN THIS RACE.

AND TODAY, STILL FILLED WITH ENERGY AND OPTIMISM FOR BOSTON, I'M ENDING MY CAMPAIGN FOR MAYOR.

>> Reilly: THE LAWMAKER/EMERGENCY ROOM DOCTOR WAS THE ONLY LATINO CANDIDATE IN THE RACE, AND ONE OF TWO MEN.

THE OTHER, JOHN BARROS, BARELY REGISTERED IN RECENT POLLS.

THAT SUGGESTS ONE OF FOUR WOMEN -- ACTING MAYOR KIM JANEY AND CITY COUNCILORS MICHELLE WU, ANDREA CAMPBELL, AND ANNISSA ESSAIBI GEORGE -- IS LIKELY TO MAKE HISTORY THIS FALL.

>> IT'S BEEN AN HONOR TO JOIN THIS HISTORIC FIELD OF CANDIDATES, BUT BOSTON HAS MADE IT CLEAR, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SUPPORTING THE FIRST ELECTED WOMAN OF COLOR TO LEAD BOSTON.

>> Reilly: SANTIAGO WASN'T WILLING TO THROW HIS SUPPORT BEHIND ANYONE, AT LEAST NOT YET.

BUT TWO OTHER KEY LATINO FIGURES IN THE CITY ARE: SUFFOLK COUNTY REGISTER OF PROBATE FELIX ARROYO AND HIS SON, BOSTON CITY COUNCILOR RICARDO ARROYO, WHO PLAN TO ENDORSE KIM JANEY AT AN EVENT THIS WEEKEND.

THE CITY COUNCILOR TOLD "THE BOSTON GLOBE," AS OUR MAYOR, SHE HAS MET THE MOMENT AND HAS SHOWN A COMMITMENT TO ENSURING BOSTON IS A CITY THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE.

AND THE ELDER ARROYO SAID, "KIM HAS CONTINUED TO FIGHT FOR JUSTICE AND EQUITY FOR ALL.

SHE IS THE RIGHT PERSON TO LEAD OUR CITY, AND I WILL BE WORKING HARD TO ELECT HER TO A FULL TERM."

JOINING ME ON THE IMPACT OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS ARE "BOSTON GLOBE" COLUMNIST AND EDITORIAL BOARD MEMBER MARCELA GARCIA AND YAWU MILLER, SENIOR EDITOR OF THE "BAY STATE BANNER."

>> Reilly: THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: MARCELLA, THERE IS A LOT OF POSSIBLE TAKE-AWAYS FROM JON SANTIAGO'S EXIT, BUT ITWANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT HIS INABILITY TO CATCH ON WITH OTHERS, TELLS US ABOUT THE CULTURAL OF LATINOS, BROADLY SPEAKING, IN BOSTON.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU THERE IS AN INCREDIBLE INSIGHT INTO THE MINDSET OF THE LATINO ELECTORATE, BUT I CAN'T.

I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD READ A LOT INTO REGARDS TO SANTIAGO'S EXIT WITH REGARD TO LATINO VOTERS.

ONE THIN FOR THING FOR ME, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BETTER, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT LATINO VOTERS, WE NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM TALKING ABOUT THE LATINO VOTE, AND TALKING ABOUT, INSTEAD, LATINO VOTERS.

BECAUSE IF ANYTHING, ONE MAJOR LESSON FROM THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION LAST YEAR IS THAT, YOU KNOW, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, OBVIOUSLY IT HAS BEEN SAID MANY TIMES THAT A LOT OF LATINOS VOTED FOR TRUMP, AND THAT TOOK A LOT OF PEOPLE BY SURPRISE, APPARENTLY.

BUT THE THING ABOUT THE LESSON IN THERE IS THAT LATINO VOTERS ARE VERY PER PERSUADEABLE.

AND COMING BACK TO THE BOSTON MAYORAL ELECTION, THAT IS A BIG TAKE-AWAY HERE.

LATINOS ARE UNDECIDED, BUT THAT JUST TELLS YOU THEY'RE UP FOR GRABS AND THEY ARE PERSUADEABLE.

I WOULD STAY AWAY FROM TALKING ABOUT THE LATINO ELECTORATE BECAUSE THAT ASSUMES IT MOVES AS A BLOCK, AND IT DOESN'T.

I THINK HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, SANTIAGO'S EXIT, I THINK, ABSOLUTELY MEANS HE HAD SOME LATINOS IN HIS CAMP.

HIS EXIT, YOU KNOW, MEANS THAT THOSE VOTERS ARE ALSO UP FOR GRABS, BUT SO ARE OTHER MANY LATINO VOTERS WHO WERE ALREADY UNDECIDED.

>> Reilly: JUST TO REINFORCE SOME OF THE POINTS YOU'VE MADE, I WEREN'T TO SHOW SOME RECENT POLLING THAT CAME OUT SHOWING HOW LATINO VOTERS FELT ABOUT THIS RACE, WHO THEY PUT WHERE IN TERMS OF VARIOUS CANDIDATES.

WHEN ASKED WHO YOU WOULD VOTE FOR IF THE BOSTON MAYORAL RACE WAS HELD TODAY, KIM JANEY LED WITH 18%, MICHELLE WU SECOND WITH 15, ANDREA CAMPBELL WITH 14, AND ANNISSA ESSAIBI GEORGE WITH 10, AND JON SANTIAGO WITH 1%.

IN ADDITION TO YOUR VERY IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT BEING A MULTITUDE OF LATINO VOTING BLOCKS, AS OPPOSED TO ONE, THAT SIMPLY BEING A LATINO CANDIDATE DOESN'T MEAN THAT ALL OF THOSE VARIOUS LATINO BLOCKS ARE GOING TO FLOCK TO YOU, RIGHT?

>> CORRECT.

I THINK THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT JON SANTIAGO WASN'T THE CANDIDATE.

PERHAPS HE NEEDED MORE TIME.

PERHAPS HE NEEDED MORE MONEY.

PERHAPS HE NEEDED MORE OUTREACH.

I THINK THE SHORTENED NATURE OF THIS CAMPAIGN AND THE FACT THAT ALL OF OUR ATTENTION WAS PRETTY MUCH CONCENTRATED IN THE PANDEMIC AND THE NATION AND THIS AND THAT, MADE IT HARD FOR HIM TO GET THE LATINO VOTERS.

I DO BELIEVE, AGAIN, TALKING IN THEORY, THAT A LATINO CANDIDATE HAS THE POTENTIAL, JUST IN THE ABSTRACT, TALKING IN THEORY, HAS THE POTENTIAL OF GALVANIZING MANY BLOCKS OF LATINO VOTERS, BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT UNITE LATINOS, OBVIOUSLY.

THIS TIME JUST WASN'T THE TIME.

>> Reilly: HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YAWU HAS A CHANCE TO TALK BEFORE YOU AND I JUST KEEP GOING.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON WHY SANTIAGO'S CAMPAIGN NEVER REALLY GOT GOING?

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT MARCELLA SAID, WHICH IS THE IDEA THAT, I THINK IN BOSTON, BLACKS, LATINOS, AND WHITE PROGRESSIVES HAVE ALWAYS VOTED, LIKE, TOGETHER, HISTORICALLY.

SO IN PAST TIMES IT WAS MORE LIKE HEAVILY PUERTO RICAN, BLACK AND WHITE PROGRESSIVE.

I THINK INCREASINGLY PEOPLE IN BOSTON ARE VOTING ON ISSUES OVER RACIAL IDENTITY.

SO I DO THINK THAT THINK THAT TO THE EXTENT THAT VOTERS ARE READING NEWSPAPERS, READING THE POLLS, GETTING AN UNDERSTANDING -- I MEAN, THERE HAVE BEEN WHAT, 50 MAYORAL FORUMS, SO TO THE EXTENT ANYBODY IS TUNING IN, I DO THINK THAT SANTIAGO WAS SORT OF TAKING A TACT TO THE RIGHT, SORT OF SUPPORTING POLICE AND SORT OF GOING AGAINST REFORMS TO POLICE.

HE WAS AGAINST RENT CONTROL.

HE SORT OF TOOK POSITIONS THAT ARE ON THE RIGHT END OF THE SPECTRUM IN BOSTON, AND THAT MIGHT NOT HAVE RESONATED AMONG, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO MANY ASSUMED WOULD HAVE BEEN HIS BASE.

>> Reilly: THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

AND HE WAS ALSO SLOW TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT FORMER MAYOR MARTY WALSH, AND AND IF YOU HAVE AN ELECTORATE THAT IS HUNGRY FOR CHANGE, THAT'S NOT GOOD.

LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE ARROYO ENDORSEMENTS.

FELIX, THE FIRST LATINO COUNCILOR EVER IN THE STATE, AND RICARDO ARROYO, WHO ARE GOING TO BE ENDORSING KIM JANEY AT HYDE PARK ON SATURDAY.

IS THE TIMING COINCIDENCE?

>> IT DOES SEEM A LITTLE COINCIDENTAL.

I HAVE NO INSIGHT, BUT IT MAKES SENSE THAT IT WAS TIMED, I GUESS, THAT SANTIAGO ANNOUNCED HE WAS DROPPING OUT, THAT THE ARROYOS WHAT COME IN AND SAY WE'RE GOING TO SUPPORT KIM JANEY.

I THINK IT MATTERS.

FOR PART OF THE ELECTORATE, THE ARROYO'S NAME HAS RESONANCE, SIGNIFICANCE, AFTER BEING, AGAIN, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, THE FIRST LATINO ELECTED TO CITY COUNCIL, AND BEFORE THAT, ARROYO WAS ON THE SCHOOL COMMITTEE, THE ELDER, FELIX ARROYO.

IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE TIMING WAS PERHAPS COORDINATED, MAYBE NOT.

AGAIN, I'M JUST SPECULATING.

>> Reilly: THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING, TOO, I SHOULD MAKE IT CLEAR.

>> AGAIN, YOU AND I KNOW COINCIDENCES ARE VERY RARE IN THE POLITICAL WORLD.

BUT, AGAIN, TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE, I JUST THINK IT IS GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

BUT I STILL THINK YOU JUST SHOWED ON THE SCREEN A THIRD OF LATINO VOTERS FOR THAT POLL ARE STILL UNDECIDED.

THAT MEANS THEY'RE PERSUADEABLE ENOUGH TO GRAB.

>> Reilly: YAWU, HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK THE TWO ARROYOS SAYING KIM JANEY IS OUR CANDIDATE IS GOING TO BE?

>> I THINK IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ASSESS THAT, TO REALLY GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF THAT.

I HAVE NO IDEA HOW NEWSPAPER ENDORSEMENTS REALLY AFFECT THE OUTCOME OF A RACE OR POLITICAL ENDORSEMENTS.

BUT THAT SAID, THOUGH, WHEN MARTY WALSH WAS GOING AGAINST JOHN CONLEE IN THE 2013 NOVEMBER ELECTIONS, SO IT WAS JUST THE TWO OF THEM, THE FACT THAT EVERY BLACK AND LATINO ELECTED OFFICIAL ENDORSED MARTY WALSH I THINK ACTUALLY REALLY TIPPED THE SCALES BECAUSE I THINK CONLEE DID WELL WITH BLACKS PRIOR TO THAT IN THE PRELIMINARY ELECTION, SO -- >> Reilly: AND ONE OF THOSE CANDIDATES, AS MANY VIEWERS REMEMBER, WAS FELIX G. ARROYO, THE FORMER COUNCIL OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, FOR MARTY WALSH WHO LEFT CITY HALL IN A CONTROVERSIAL SITUATION, WAS ACCUSED OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT, HE HAS DENIED THAT AND HE SUED THE CITY.

SO HE IS NOT PART OF THIS ENDORSEMENT MIX.

BUT HE WAS MARTY WALSH'S FIRST CABINET HIRE AFTER ENDORSING HIM IN THAT PRIMARY FINAL AGAINST JOHN CONLEE, AS YOU SAID.

DO YOU WANT TO FINISH A THOUGHT, OR SHOULD I MOVE ON TO THE STATE OF THE RACE BROADLY SPEAKING.

I'LL STAY WITH YOU FOR THIS: RECENT POLLING SEEMS TO SUGGEST TO ME AT THIS POINT IN THE RACE, KIM JANEY AND MICHELLE WU ARE THE FRONT-RUNNERS, AND ANNISSA ESSAIBI GEORGE, WHO IS IN THIRD PLACE, IS IN STRIKING DIFFERENCE, AND CITY COUNCILOR, ANDREA CAMPBELL, WHO STRUGGLED FOR QUITE A WHILE TO CATCH ON, SHE IS NOW IN DOUBLE DIGITS AND SEEMS TO BE POTENTIALLY IN STRIKING DISTANCE.

SHE HAS BEEN THE MOST AGGRESSIVE IN GOING AFTER THE ACTING MAYOR.

THE DESCRIPTION I OFFERED, DOES IT MATCH THE WAY YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE RACE AND WHAT, I GUESS, YOU'RE SEEING WHEN YOU TALK TO PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND THE CITY?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THAT IN ADDITION TO THE 50 CANDIDATE FORUMS, THERE HAVE BEEN AT LEAST A HALF DOZEN POLLS.

AND THE POLLS ARE SORT OF BEARING THAT OUT, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE POLL THAT SHOWED ANNISSA ESSAIBI GEORGE IN THE LEAD.

MOST OF THE POLLS HAVE SHOWN JANEY AND WU IN ALMOST A DEAD HEAT.

AND THE UNDECIDED AROUND 30%.

SO I THINK A LOT IS GOING TO HINGE ON WHO ARE THOSE UNDECIDED PEOPLE, AND WHY ARE THEY SITTING ON THE FENCE.

WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR.

WHAT DO THEY WANT TO HEAR?

IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE -- THERE WERE TWO MEN IN THE RACE WHO WERE WAY IN THE BACK.

MAYBE SOME OF THE VOTERS ARE WAITING FOR ONE OF THOSE CANDIDATES TO BREAKTHROUGH.

AND NOW DOES THAT FAVOR ANNISSA ESSAIBI GEORGE?

MIGHT IT FAVOR JANEY OR CAMPBELL?

I HAVE NOT DONE -- I HAVE NOT LOOKED ENOUGH AT THE POLLS TO SEE WHO THE UNDECIDES ARE.

>> Reilly: MARICELLA, I WANT TO GIVEMARCEL, YOUMARCELA,BOSTON HAS WAITED A LONG TIME TO ELECT A MAYOR WHO IS NOT A WHITE MAN.

IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN THIS YEAR.

HISTORY IS GOING TO BE MADE IN THIS CITY.

HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE BEFORE THE CITY ELECTS A LATINO OR LATINA TO RUN IT?

>> HOPEFULLY NOT TOO LONG.

I DON'T MEAN TO SAY THAT THE NEXT MAYOR MAY OR MAY NOT JUST LAST ONE TERM OR TWO, BUT IF THAT IS THE CASE, I THINK WE'RE VERY CLOSE.

I DON'T WANT TO SAY "X" NUMBER OF YEARS OR ANYTHING, BUT IF I MAY ASK SOMETHING ABOUT THE STATE OF THE RACE, AND IT RELATES TO THIS ISSUE, IS THAT WE NEED BETTER DATA TO UNDERSTAND LATINO VOTERS.

TO THAT END, I THINK THAT THE SOONER THAT WE INCORPORATE POLLING THAT IS SOPHISTICATED, THAT GETS GRANULAB, LIKE YAWU SAID, WHAT IS BEHIND THE THIRD OF THE LATINOS WHO ARE UNDECIDED?

AND FOR THAT MATTER, BLACK VOTERS WHO ARE UNDECIDED, TOO.

I -- LET'S JUST DO A POLLING OF LATINOS AND LET'S JUST DO A POLLING OF BLACKS.

IT SOUNDS EASY.

BEYOND KNOWING WHAT COMPELS THESE VOTERS OR WHAT MOVES THESE VOTERS, I'M REALLY WATCHING OUT FOR THE EARLY VOTING OR MAIL-IN VOTING INFORMATION.

AS OF TODAY, LAST TIME I CHECKED -- AS OF LAST TIME I CHECKED, I SHOULD SAY, WE STILL DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO VOTE EARLY, JUST LIKE WE DID THE LAST YEAR, AND I THINK THAT WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT FOR TURNOUT.

>> Reilly: THAT'S A GREAT POINT, AND THAT IS THIS HUGE VARIABLE, AND THE ELECTION IS VERY CLOSE.

YAWU, YOU GET THE FINAL WORD.

DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE A SIMILARLY LONG WAIT FOR A LATINO TO BREAKTHROUGH, AS WE HAVE SEEN FOR A WOMAN OF COLOR TO MAKE IT?

>> I THINK THAT, UM, THE LATINO POPULATION IN BOSTON WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 1% IN THE LATE 1960s, WHEN THE COMMUNITY WAS JUST STARTING TO GROW IN THE SOUTH END.

AND SO PEOPLE MY AGE, LIKE IN THEIR 50s, ARE ALMOST THE FIRST GENERATION -- FOR THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE TWO LATINOS ON THE CITY COUNCIL.

WE HAVE A LATINO SENATOR, STATE SENATOR, AND STATE REP.

SO THE POPULATION IS STARTING TO GET ITS POLITICAL FOOTING.

I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE BOSTON MAYORS ARE NOTORIOUSLY DIFFICULT TO VOTE OUT OF OFFICE ONCE THEY'RE IN OFFICE, EVERYTHING WILL DEPEND ON HOW LONG THE JANEY, WU, CAMPBELL, ESSAIBI GEORGE ADMINISTRATION LASTS.

BUT THE NEXT GO-AROUND, I THINK THERE WILL BE A CROP OF CANDIDATES WHO HAVE HAD ELECTORAL EXPERIENCE AND ARE PERHAPS WELL-POSITIONED TO RUN FOR MAYOR.

>> Reilly: ON THAT NOTE, YAWU MILLER AND MARCELA GARCIA, GREAT TALKING TO YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: IN RECENT YEARS, A WHOLE INDUSTRY HAS SPRUNG UP AROUND THE NOTION THAT IF WE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT WE EAT, WE CAN DO IT ETHICALLY.

IF YOU'RE A BIG COFFEE DRINKER, MAYBE THAT MEANS USING SHADE-GROWN BEANS FROM A COLLECTIVE DEDICATED TO LIFTING PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY.

OR IF YOU'RE A MEAT EATER, PRODUCTS FROM GRASS-FED, FREE-RANGE ANIMALS THAT ARE RAISED WITH CARE AND SLAUGHTERED IN THE MOST HUMANE WAY POSSIBLE.

BUT WHAT IF THAT IDEAL OF ETHICAL MEAT CONSUMPTION IS A FRAUD?

THAT IS THE CONTENTION OF THE FILM "THE LAST PIG," WHICH AIRS TONIGHT ON GBH-2 AT 9:00 P.M.

IT'S DIRECTED BY ALLISON ARGO AND CHRONICLES FARMER BOB COMIS' SLOW REALIZATION THAT, FOR HIM, THERE IS JUST NO WAY TO JUSTIFY CARING FOR PIGS SIX DAYS A WEEK AND THEN TAKING THEM TO THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE ON THE SEVENTH.

>> THEY FOLLOW ME, CURIOUS, INTERESTED, AND IRRESISTIBLY GREGARIOUS.

THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THIS COMMUNION IS A LIE.

>> Reilly: SO SHOULD GUILTY CARNIVORES, LIKE ME, REVISIT THE IDEA THAT WE CAN EAT MEAT MORALLY?

JOINING ME TO TAKE THAT QUESTION ARE FARMER BOB COMIS AND FILM MAKER ALLISON ARGO.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Reilly: I WANT TO SAY AT THE OUTSET THAT THE FILM IS BEAUTIFUL AND VERY AFFECTIVE, AND UNSETTLING.

I WATCH EVERYONE TO TUNE IN TONIGHT AT 9:00 TO CATCH IT.

BOB, YOU WERE NOT BORN INTO THIS PROFESSION.

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE IT?

>> UM, IT STARTED IN, UM, EARLY 2000, SO I THINK 2003MY WIFE AND I WERE LIVING IN PHILADELPHIA AND WE WERE GOING TO BE MOVING UP TO NEW YORK, AND MY WIFE IS A HORSE PERSON, SO WE WOULD HAVE HORSES AND SOME LAND.

SO I DID SOME RESEARCH ABOUT TAKING CARE OF HORSES, AND MY GRANDFATHER HAD HAD DAIRY GOATS, SO I WAS GOING TO HAVE DAIRY GOATS.

AS SOON AS I STARTED DOING THAT RESEARCH, JUST ABOUT TAKING CARE OF ANIMALS, NOT RAISING THEM FOR SLAUGHTER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, I STARTED COMING ACROSS PETA VIDEOS AND FARM PROJECT VIDEOS ABOUT EXACTLY FARMING, WHICH I WAS REALLY IGNORANT OF AT THE TIME.

YOU KNOW, I HAD KNOWN ABOUT HOW VEAL CALVES WERE RAISED, BUT THAT UNDERSTANDING DIDN'T EXPAND TO THE REST OF THE LIVESTOCK THAT ARE RAISED FOR SLAUGHTER.

ONCE I DISCOVERED THAT, I WAS SORT OF MORTIFIED, AND I BECAME A VEGAN BASICALLY ON THE SPOT.

BUT IT ONLY LASTED A FEW MONTHS BECAUSE OF -- FOR CULTURAL REASONS, THERE WEREN'T AS MANY SUPPORTS AS THERE ARE NOW.

THEN I DECIDED WHEN WE M RAISE ANIMALS HUMANELY AND RAISE -- EVENTUALLY RAISE MY OWN ANIMALS, AFTER PURCHASING MEAT FROM HUMANELY RAISED ANIMALS FROM LOCAL FARMS.

I DID IT AND LIKED IT, SO I CONTINUED WITH IT.

>> Reilly: IT IS WORTH STRESSING, YOU CAN SEE IN THE FILM HOW WELL YOU CARED FOR THESE ANIMALS THAT YOU WERE RAISING BEFORE THEY WERE TAKEN TO THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE, THE PROCESS THAT IS SO AGONIZING FOR YOU, OR HAD BECOME SO AGONIZING.

YOU SAID IN THE FILM, AS YOU JUST MENTIONED, YOU WANTED TO PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE TO FACTORY-FARMED MEAT AND AT TIMES YOU WERE PROUD OF WHAT YOU WERE.

I WONDER WHEN THAT CHANGED.

WAS IT A SLOW DECREASE IN YOUR COMFORT LEVEL TO THE POINT WHERE IT JUST BECAME INTOLERABLE?

>> I GRAPPLED WITH THE ETHICS OF RAISING ANIMALS FOR SLAUGHTER FROM THE VERY FIRST TWO PIGS I NAMED, WHICH WERE NAMED BREAKFAST AND DINNER, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DO TO REMIND THEMSELVES THAT THE ANIMALS THAT YOU'RE CARING FOR, THAT THEY ARE FOR FOOD.

THAT WAS A STRUGGLE EVEN WHEN I TOOK THOSE TWO FIRST PIGS.

AND ON AND OFF OVER THE YEARS, IF YOU LOOK AT MY BLOCK, IT IS SORT OF A CHRONICLE OF MY STRUGGLE WITH THAT.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS GRADUAL PROCESS THAT ENDED UP IN A PRECIPITOUS SORT OF FALL OFF OF A CLIFF BECAUSE I HAD A MORE OR LESS MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE WITH A PIGS, WHERE I LOST TRACK OF WHERE MY OWN BEING ENDED AND THEIR BEING BEGAN.

AND I SORT OF FELT, ON A FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL, THAT THE PIGS AND I WERE THE SAME SOURCE OF BEING, IF NOT THE SAME BEING ALL TOGETHER.

AND AFTER HAVING HAD THAT EXPERIENCE, I WAS JUST FINISHED.

I COULDN'T DO IT ANYMORE.

ALTHOUGH I DID IT FOR 10 MONTHS MORE, BUT I COULDN'T CONTINUE AS A PIG FARMER.

>> Reilly: ALLISON, YOU HAVE A LONG AND VERY IMPRESSIVE FILM-MAKING RESUME.

YOU HAVE WORKED WITH GORILLAS, CHIM PAN CHIMPANZEES, ELEPHANTS.

WHAT TRAITS DO THEY HAVE THAT MAY DISTINGUISH THEM FROM OTHER ANIMALS.

>> I ALWAYS WANTED TO SPEAK OUT FOR ANIMALS, NON-HUMAN ANIMALS, BECAUSE, OF COURSE, WE ARE ANIMALS, BECAUSE I FEEL THEY CAN'T SPEAK OUR LANGUAGE AND SPEAK UP FOR THEMSELVES.

I GRADUALLY BECAME AWAY THAT THOSE THAT ARE TRAPPED IN FACTORY FARMING, OR EVEN FARMING IN GENERAL, ARE REALLY THE MOST POWERLESS.

FOR A LONG TIME, I REALLY WANTED TO FIND A FILM -- A STORY THAT I COULD BRING TO THE PUBLIC THAT CHRONICLED THIS.

AND FINDING BOB'S STORY WAS THE ONE FOR ME.

AND GETTING TO KNOW THE PIGS WAS SUCH A DELIGHT.

AND THAT'S ONE THING THAT MADE SLAUGHTER SO INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT BECAUSE PIGS LOVE LIFE.

THEY LOVE TO SMELL.

THEY LOVE TO WALLOW.

THEY LOVE THE MUD.

THEY LOVE TO EAT.

THEY JUST TAKE ABSOLUTE JOY IN LIFE.

AND BOB GAVE THESE PIGS JUST AN IDEALIC FOR SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS.

BUT PIGS NATURALLY LIVE 10 TO 15 YEARS.

SO THAT IS THE IRONY OF THIS PARTICULAR STORY.

HE GAVE THEM SUCH A BEAUTIFUL LIFE, BUT IS THAT ENOUGH?

AND I REALLY WANTED TO JUST BRING BOB'S STORY, AND LET HIM TELL IT IN HIS VOICE, AND NOT PROJECT ANY OF MY FEELINGS ON TO IT.

>> Reilly: I WANT TO SHOW -- WE JUST SAW A PICTURE OF THEM -- SORRY, A VIDEO OF THEM, ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED, TAKING A BATH ON A REALLY HOT DAY.

I ALSO WANT TO SHOW A LITTLE BIT OF THEM NAPPING.

A CLIP FROM THE FILM IN WHICH PIGS ARE TAKING A NAP TOGETHER.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

>> WHEN PIGS SLEEP, THEY SLEEP TOUCHING ANOTHER PIG.

ALMOST ALWAYS.

THERE IS RARELY A PIG OFF BY ITSELF, SLEEPING ALONE.

YOU KNOW, AS A HERD, WHAT THE PIG CONSIDERS ITS FAMILY.

>> Reilly: THERE WAS A SHOT I WAS HOPING THAT WE WOULD GET TO, WHERE YOU SEE A PIG ACTUALLY LEAN OVER AND PUT BOTH ARMS AROUND ANOTHER PIG, JUST THE WAY THAT A HUMAN WOULD.

>> THEY WERE SPOONING.

>> Reilly: YEAH.

YEAH, EXACTLY.

BOB, I WONDER IF YOU EVER ARGUED AGAINST YOURSELF, AS YOU WERE COMING TO THIS DECISION, MAYBE BEFORE YOUR MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE?

AND, IN PARTICULAR, IF YOU EVER SAID TO YOURSELF, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THIS, BUT I'M TAKING THESE ANIMALS IN, AND I'M GIVING THEM THE BEST POSSIBLE LIFE THEY CAN HAVE BEFORE THEY ARE KILLED.

IF I STOP DOING THIS, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THEY'LL HAVE A LIFE THAT IS IN ANY WAY AS PLEASANT AS THE LIFE THAT I'M GOING TO PROVIDE?

DID YOU EVER THINK THAT WAY?

>> I DID, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

THERE WAS ACTUALLY A BLOG POST THAT I WROTE THAT I CALLED "SOFT HEARTS AND BLOODY TONGUES," WHERE I WAS AT THE BUTCHER SHOP THAT TOOK MOST OF MY PIGS, AND I HAD SOME TIME TO KILL -- SORRY.

AND SO I ACTUALLY HELPED BREAK THE PIGS DOWN, AND I OPENED A BOX OF THE ORGANS, AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BOX WERE JUST A PILE OF SOFT HEARTS AND BLOODY TONGUES.

AND IT SENT ME REELING.

I JUST COULDN'T STOMACH WHAT I WAS DOING.

I COULDN'T IMAGINE WHAT A HORRIBLE PERSON I WAS.

AND THEN OVER THE COURSE OF THE 15 OR 20 MINUTES THAT I CONTINUED TO WORK, BECAUSE I COULDN'T STOP FOR SOCIAL REASONS, I DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE A SCENE.

THERE WAS A WOMAN AT THE COUNTER, AND I OVERHEARD THE BUTCHER SAY THAT'S BOB OVER THERE, THE FARMER.

AND SHE LOOKED OVER AND SHE TOOK A STEP TOWARDS ME AND SHE SAID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WHAT YOU DO.

THE WAY SHE SAID IT, SHE WAS SO EARNEST, AND SHE MEANT IT SO DEEPLY, THAT MY REELING -- I WAS JUST TUMBLING, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I HAD GROUND BENEATH MY FEET.

I UNDERSTOOD IN THAT MOMENT THAT I HAD BEEN WRONG, DESPITE HOW I FELT ABOUT THE SOFT HEARTS AND BLOODY TONGUES, I WAS GIVING HER AN ALTERNATIVE TO FACTORY-FARMED METAL.

THE REALITY IS LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE EAT MEAT, AND IT IS MUCH BETTER FOR THE PIGS TO BE RAISED ON A FARM LIKE MINE, I BELIEVE, THAN ON A FACTORY FARM FOR THOSE PEOPLE.

BUT ULTIMATELY, EVERYBODY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT EVEN ANIMALS RAISED ON HIGH-WELFARE FARMS ARE KILLED.

AND THERE IS NO MORE VIOLENT THING THAT YOU CAN DO TO ANY LIVING THING, REGARDLESS OF HOW PAINFUL OR HUMANE THE ACT ITSELF MIGHT BE THAN KILLING THEM.

IT'S THE MOST VIOLENT THING YOU CAN DO, TO END A LIFE.

SO EVEN THAT REALLY POWERFUL STABILITY STABILIZING GROUND THAT SHE PUT BENEATH MY FEET A YEAR OR TWO LATER WAS NO LONGER ENOUGH.

>> Reilly: THAT MAKES SENSE.

ALLISON, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

THIS IS A CLIP OF BOB SITTING WITH HIS DOG AND SAYING, I HAVE STOPPED UNDERSTANDING WHY IT IS THAT A PIG IS FOOD AND A DOG IS PART OF A FAMILY.

I'M CURIOUS IN YOUR TAKE, ALLISON, WHAT YOU THINK THE ANSWER IS TO THAT?

>> OH, IT'S JUST CULTURAL.

IT IS ABSOLUTE CULTURAL HABIT.

AND IT'S A VERY -- IT'S VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE PEOPLE -- IT'S A VERY PRIVATE, PERSONAL THING, WHAT PEOPLE DECIDE TO EAT.

AND THAT'S WHY I WANTED THE FILM TO NOT IN ANY WAY DICTATE OR SAY YOU SHOULD FEEL GUILTY FOR THIS OR YOU SHOULDN'T EAT THAT.

IT IS SIMPLY A MAN COMING TO TERMS WITH HIS OWN MORALS AND HOW THEY WERE NOT ALIGNED WITH HIS PRACTICES.

AND SO HE MADE -- HE VERY BRAVELY MADE A CHANGE.

AND SO I WANT THE AUDIENCE NOT TO FEEL LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO BE LECTURED TO IN ANY WAY.

IT IS AN INVITATION JUST TO SAY HOW DO I FEEL ABOUT MY DOG?

AND WHY DO I DRAW THAT LINE BETWEEN EATING A PIG AND NOT EATING A DOG?

>> Reilly: AND I WILL SAY, I'D LOVE TO KEEP TALKING WITH YOU.

UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE TO WRAP UP.

I WILL SAY THAT THE FILM DOES NOT COME ACROSS AS PREACHY OR JUDGEY.

IT'S A REALLY IMPRESSIVE PIECE OF WORK.

THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: THE FILM AGAIN IS "THE LAST PIG," AND IT AIRS HERE ON GBH-2 AT 9:00 P.M. THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

♪♪