>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

A CALL TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURE AFTER AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

TONIGHT, WE FOCUS ON ALL ANGLES.

FIRST, THE REPUBLICAN REACTION JUST AS THEY OPEN THEIR NATIONAL CONVENTION.

AND LATER, AN EXPERT ON POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

IS THERE REALLY NO ROOM FOR THIS IN AMERICA?

>>> PLUS, A JUDGE DISMISSES THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS CASE AGAINST TRUMP.

I'M JOINED BY FORMER ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL NEAL KATYAL.

>>> AND THE INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVE WITH ICELAND'S PRESIDENT-ELECT.

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THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

IT IS TIME TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURE IN OUR POLITICS.

THIS IS WHAT PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN TOLD THE NATION IN A PRIME TIME ADDRESS LAST NIGHT.

FOLLOWING THE ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT, DONALD TRUMP, AT AN ELECTION RALLY ON SATURDAY.

THE FBI IS STILL TRYING TO DETERMINE THE MOTIVATION OF THE SHOOTER, A 20-YEAR-OLD WHITE MAN ARMED WITH AN AR-15 AUTOMATIC RIFLE, WHO WAS ALSO A REGISTERED REPUBLICAN.

REGARDLESS, THE ATTACK IS A TESTAMENT TO THE INCREASINGLY FRACTIOUS STATE OF THIS RACE.

TRUMP SAYS HE HAS REWRITTEN HIS SPEECH TO REFLECT THAT AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION.

BUT HE'S SINCE TOLD "THE NEW YORK POST" I WANT TO TRY TO UNITE MY COUNTRY, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S POSSIBLE.

PEOPLE ARE VERY DIVIDED.

JOINING ME NOW FROM MILWAUKEE IS CORRESPONDENT JEFF ZELENY.

JEFF, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

LET ME FIRST ASK YOU THE TRADITIONAL QUESTION, WHICH IS SUPER RELEVANT TODAY.

WHAT ACTUALLY IS THE MOOD AMONGST REPUBLICANS AFTER THIS VIOLENCE ON SATURDAY?

>> WELL, CHRISTIANE, THE MOOD IS ONE OF RELIEF.

IT IS ALSO ONE OF EXCITEMENT.

DONALD TRUMP WOULD HAVE BEEN WELCOMED HERE TO MILWAUKEE AS A HERO, BUT IT IS SOMETHING FAR MORE THAN THAT, GIVEN THE EVENTS OF SATURDAY.

TALKING TO REPUBLICAN DELEGATES, THEY, YOU KNOW, FIRST AND FOREMOST, ARE GRATEFUL THAT HE IS OKAY.

AND THEY ARE MORE COMMITTED THAN EVER TO HIS CAMPAIGN.

OF COURSE HERE IN WISCONSIN, THE CONVENTION WAS CHOSEN HERE, DONALD TRUMP CHOSE THIS FOR A REASON.

BECAUSE WISCONSIN IS A KEY BATTLEGROUND.

THIS IS ONE OF THE PIECES OF THE BLUE WALL, IF YOU WILL, THAT HE WON IN 2016, HE LOST TO JOE BIDEN IN 2020, SO, THAT IS REALLY AT THE HEART OF THE MATTER HERE.

SO, AS THE FORMER PRESIDENT MAKES HIS WAY TO THE CONVENTION FLOOR, WE'RE EXPECTED TO SEE A BIT OF HIM THROUGHOUT THIS WEEK, OF COURSE, CULMINATING IN HIS MARQUEE SPEECH ON THURSDAY.

HE'S TALKING OF UNITY.

THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

A COUPLE QUESTIONS.

WILL THAT PLEDGE FOR UNITY REMAIN AFTER THIS CONVENTION?

AND WILL OTHER REPUBLICANS ALSO UPHOLD THAT PLEDGE, AND IS IT WHAT THE BASE WANTS TO HEAR?

THIS IS A TIME WHEN YOU SORT OF THROW RED MEAT OUT TO YOUR SUPPORTERS, SO, IT'S A TRICKY BALANCE, BUT OF COURSE, HE CONTROLS THE MESSAGE, AND HE IS SAYING THAT HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT UNITY.

OF COURSE, THERE'S A LOT TO UNPACK IN ALL OF THAT.

>> WELL, YEAH, AND AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, HE SAID THAT, BUT THEN HE SAID, WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN, BECAUSE THE COUNTRY IS VERY DIVIDED.

I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, CLEARLY WORLD LEADERS, ELECTED LEADERS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT DIVISION, SO, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF HE ACTUALLY THROWS HIMSELF INTO TRYING TO DO WHAT HE SAYS HE WANTS TO DO.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, I WANT TO ASK YOU, JEFF, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, IN MANY OF THESE CONVENTIONS, THEY HAVE A PLATFORM, THEIR MANIFESTO.

AND WE HEAR THIS ONE IS GOING TO BE VERY, VERY MUCH TRIMMED DOWN, AND ACCORDING TO REPORTS, THAT IT WILL REALLY REFLECT A SORT OF ALLEGIANCE TO TRUMP, RATHER THAN THE USUAL POLICY STATEMENTS AND GOALS.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE HEARING?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY IS CORRECT.

I MEAN, I'VE COVERED SEVERAL OF THESE REPUBLICAN CONVENTIONS, AND NOT ONE LIKE THIS.

THE PARTY PLATFORM, WHICH IS REALLY THE PRINCIPLES OF THE PARTY, HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT, FROM THE ABORTION ISSUE TO SPENDING TO OTHER MATTERS, TO ALLEGIANCE TO DONALD TRUMP.

THEY'VE SCALED IT WAY BACK FOR ELECTORAL REASONS.

DONALD TRUMP JUST, ON ABORTION, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS WALKED A VERY CAREFUL LINE HERE, AND FRANKLY, IT'S ANGERED SOME SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES IN THE PARTY.

THEY WOULD LIKE A NATIONAL ABORTION BAN.

BUT TRUMP, OF COURSE, KNOWS THAT DEMOCRATS WILL SEIZE UPON THAT IN THE GENERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN, SO -- THIS IS VERY MUCH THE -- THE TRUMP PLATFORM, WHICH CAN BE BOILED DOWN TO "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN."

OF COURSE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

BUT NOT A LOT OF SPECIFICS, BUT CHRISTIANE, WHAT REALLY STRIKES ME HERE, THIS IS THE THIRD CONSECUTIVE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS ACCEPTED.

THIS IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MOMENT.

WHEN HE ARRIVED ON STAGE IN CLEVELAND EIGHT YEARS AGO IN 2016, IT WAS A FRACTURED PARTY.

THERE WAS ATTEMPTS FROM TED CRUZ SUPPORTERS AND MARCO RUBIO SUPPORTERS, EVEN A FEW JEB BUSH SUPPORTERS TO TRY TO STOP HIM FROM GETTING THE NOMINATION.

ALL OF THAT IS OUT THE WINDOW.

THIS IS 100% HIS PARTY.

WHEN YOU WALK THROUGH THE HALL RIGHT BEHIND ME HERE, THERE ARE PICTURES OF DONALD TRUMP ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE.

MERCHANDISE EVERYWHERE.

BUT TALKING TO PEOPLE, THESE ARE HIS PEOPLE.

TESTIFY -- A FEW SORT OF REMAINING NEVER TRUMPERS ARE NOWHERE NEAR THE PARTY, AND CERTAINLY NOWHERE NEAR HERE, SO, IT'S MUCH, MUCH DIFFERENT THAN HIS MOMENTS HERE BEFORE AT THE CONVENTIONS.

>> AND WHAT IS YOUR -- PUT ON YOUR POLITICAL ANALYST HAT.

WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED ON SATURDAY, IN HOW IT WILL PLAY OUT, YOU KNOW, TWO DAYS, TWO WEEKS FROM NOW?

>> LOOK, IT'S ALWAYS DIFFICULT IN THE MOMENT TO GET A SENSE OF WHAT THIS WILL MEAN IN THE LONGER TERM, BUT I THINK WE HAVE AT LEAST A BIT OF A SENSE.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SNAPPED INTO DUTY AS THE, YOU KNOW, COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

HE'S ADDRESSED THE NATION THREE TIMES, TALKING ABOUT A NEED TO COOL VIOLENCE.

DONALD TRUMP ALSO FOLLOWING SUIT.

WE'RE LEARNING MORE ABOUT THAT PHONE CALL THAT THEY HAD JUST ONE-ON-ONE ON SUNDAY MORNING THAT BOTH SIDES EXPRESSED AS A GOOD AND RESPECTFUL CALL.

SO, I THINK WITHOUT QUESTION, IT PROVIDES A MOMENT FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND FOR DONALD TRUMP, AND THEY'RE SIGNALING, AT LEAST, THAT HE IS EAGER TO SEIZE UPON THIS POLITICAL MOMENT.

AND DOES IT CREATE AN OPENING FOR HIM TO DO SOMETHING HE'S NEVER REALLY DONE, AND THAT'S EXPANDING HIS BASE.

THERE'S A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, ANGER AND DISSATISFACTION WITH JOE BIDEN, SO, CAN DONALD TRUMP SORT OF, YOU KNOW, WIN PEOPLE OVER?

ONE THING I'M LOOKING AT, THIS WAS VERY INTERESTING, THE SCHEDULE REALLY DOESN'T USUALLY MATTER THAT MUCH, BUT THIS CASE, IT DOES.

NIKKI HALEY, SHE RECEIVED AN INVITATION JUST ON SUNDAY, OF COURSE, THE FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR, THE LAST STANDING RIVAL TO DONALD TRUMP, SHE WAS NOT INVITED LAST WEEK, NOW SHE IS.

SHE'LL BE TALKING ON THE STAGE ON TUESDAY NIGHT, TALKING ABOUT UNITY.

THAT -- >> INTERESTING.

>> THAT IS AS BIG OF A SIGN WE'VE SEEN YET THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IS TRYING TO PERHAPS WIN OVER SOME OF THOSE HALEY VOTERS, WHICH THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN TRYING TO.

NOW IT'S VERY MUCH AN OPEN QUESTION.

SO, LET'S NOT OVERSTATE THE PLEDGES FOR UNITY, LET'S WATCH AND SEE IF IT HAPPENS.

BUT THAT IS CERTAINLY ONE INDICATION THAT THEY'RE TRYING OPTICALLY, AT LEAST, FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> JEFF, THAT IS REALLY GREAT.

AND WE'RE GOING TO DIG DEEPER INTO THIS NOW, BECAUSE, OF COURSE, THE REAL AND MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS HOW LONG THIS UNITY MOMENT WILL LAST.

EVEN NOW, WE'VE HEARD VOICES ON BOTH SIDES BLAMING EACH OTHER FOR OVERHEATED RHETORIC, INCLUDING TRUMP'S OWN.

NOW, FRANK LAVIN IS A LONGTIME REPUBLICAN WHO SERVED IN BOTH THE REAGAN AND TWO BUSH ADMINISTRATIONS, WITH STINTS IN THE DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, STATE, AND IN THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL.

AND HE WAS ALSO WORKING IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHEN PRESIDENT REAGAN WAS SHOT.

SO, WELCOME, FRANK LAVIN, FROM SAN FRANCISCO.

THANKS FOR BEING WITH US.

YOU JUST HEARD JEFF ZELENY, AND I GUESS THE BIG QUESTION IS, WHAT -- WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE DEPTH OF THE COMMITMENT TO THIS UNITY, AND CAN TRUMP ACTUALLY PULL THAT OFF AND EXPAND HIS BASE?

>> WELL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON, CHRISTIANE, AND I THINK THE QUESTION YOU POSED IS EXACTLY THE KEY QUESTION OF THIS COMING WEEK.

TRUMP WILL ACCEPT THE NOMINATION ON THURSDAY, HE WILL COMMAND MAYBE THE LARGEST AUDIENCE OF HIS POLITICAL LIFE, AND WILL HE RISE TO THE MOMENT OR, IN WHAT WAY WILL HE RISE TO THE MOMENT IS THE RIGHT KIND OF QUESTION.

I THINK AS JEFF SAID IN HIS SEGMENT A MINUTE AGO, JUST BY INVITING NIKKI HALEY THERE IS A GOOD LEADING INDICATOR THAT HE IS A BROAD TENT VIEW AND HAS AN INCLUSIVE VIEW OF HIS POLITICAL ROLE.

THE OTHER IMPORTANT POINT TO KEEP IN MIND, HE HAS BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENTLY IN THE LEAD FOR SEVERAL MONTHS NOW, HE'S BEEN AHEAD OF JOE BIDEN, NOT NECESSARILY BY A HUGE AMOUNT, BUT I THINK THAT GIVES HIM MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OF SECURITY OR A LITTLE BIT OF FLEXIBILITY IN HOW HE POSITIONS HIMSELF TO SAY HE CAN ACT MORE PRESIDENTIAL, ACT MORE HIGH MINDED, BECAUSE OF WHERE HE IS.

SO, I THINK HE WILL MAKE AN HONEST EFFORT TO BE BROAD GAUGED IN HIS APPROACH, BUT HOW LONG THAT WILL LAST AND HOW SINCERELY IT'S PERCEIVED BY THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, I THINK, ARE OPEN QUESTIONS.

>> SO, LET'S JUST ROLL BACK THE TAPE TO THE LAST, I MEAN, IT WAS DECADES AGO, AND YOU WERE IN THE WHITE HOUSE WORKING FOR PRESIDENT REAGAN'S ADMINISTRATION WHEN HE WAS SHOT.

AND THAT WAS -- THAT WAS REALLY DRAMATIC, I MEAN, EVERYBODY REMEMBERS IT.

AND WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION THEN AND WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION THIS SATURDAY?

>> WELL, IT WAS HORRIFIC IN 1981.

AND REMEMBER, THE PRESIDENT WAS TAKEN TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM, GEORGE WASHINGTON HOSPITAL, HE HAD A BULLET IN HIS CHEST.

THEY HAD TO EXTRACT IT.

SO, IT WASN'T KNOWN UNTIL AFTER SURGERY WAS OVER HOW SERIOUS IT WAS, AND IT WAS QUITE SERIOUS.

BLOOD WAS POOLING INSIDE HIS BODY, AND SO, IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, A -- A LIFE-THREATENING ATTACK.

BUT FORTUNATELY, HE SURVIVED.

WITH TRUMP, I THINK WE HAD THE SAME BEWILDERMENT, SAME LACK OF INFORMATION, BUT THAT ONLY LASTED 10 OR 20 MINUTES UNTIL THEY SAID, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS IN GOOD HEALTH, HE GAVE THAT REALLY IMPRESSIVE FIST PUMP AT THE END OF THAT, BEFORE HE WAS ESCORTED OFF THE STAGE, SORT OF DID REASSURE THE PUBLIC THAT HE SEEMED TO BE OKAY.

BUT IT HAD THE SAME KIND OF EFFECT ON THE NATIONAL AUDIENCE.

>> AND WHAT IMPACT DID IT HAVE ON PRESIDENT REAGAN?

I MEAN, DID IT -- WHAT DID IT DO FOR HIS PRESIDENCY, IF ANYTHING?

>> I THINK IT DEFINITELY GAVE HIM A LIFT IN HIS NUMBERS.

AND I THINK IT LASTED A FEW MONTHS.

THAT -- IT REMINDED -- IT HUMANIZED HIM.

AND IT GAVE HIM AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACT PRESIDENTIAL AND TO ACT GRACIOUS AND HE TYPICALLY TOOK SORT OF A HIGH MINDED OR INCLUSIVE APPROACH TO THE OFFICE.

TRUMP, AS WE KNOW, IS A MORE PUGNACIOUS, SHE'S A MORE COMBATIVE FIGURE AND HE ENJOYS SORT OF THROWING PUNCHES, SO, THIS WILL BE A BIT OF A SHIFT FOR TRUMP, IF HE BECOMES HIGH MINDED OR PRESIDENTIAL, BUT THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO ACT IN A -- IN A HEALING KIND OF FASHION, OR AN INCLUSIVE FASHION.

WE HOPE THAT HE RISES TO IT.

>> OKAY, SO, LET'S JUST PLAY WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID, BECAUSE HE, TOO, OBVIOUSLY, HAS BEEN IN A REAL DRAMATIC POLITICAL CRISIS, AND HE, TOO, HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACT PRESIDENTIAL AGAIN, YOU KNOW, RE-ENGAGE THE ROLE THAT HE DOES SO WELL, RISE ABOVE IT, BE THE, YOU KNOW, UNIFIER, ET CETERA, SAID ALL THE RIGHT THINGS IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH, AND THIS IS -- THIS IS SOME OF WHAT HE SAID IN HIS ADDRESS LAST NIGHT.

>> THERE IS NO PLACE IN AMERICA FOR THIS KIND OF VIOLENCE OR ANY VIOLENCE, FOR THAT MATTER.

AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT IS CONTRARY TO EVERYTHING WE STAND FOR AS A NATION, EVERYTHING.

IT'S NOT WHO WE ARE AS A NATION.

IT'S NOT AMERICA.

AND WE CANNOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.

>> SO, FRANK, I MEAN, LOOK, THAT'S GREAT, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY TRULY BELIEVES THAT THAT'S NOT WHAT AMERICA IS.

WE WATCH AND WE REPORT DAY AFTER DAY, WEEK AFTER WEEK, NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, DRAMATIC POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS OVER THE DECADES, BUT EVERYDAY MASS MURDERS IN CLASSROOMS, IN SHOPPING MALLS, IN ENTERTAINMENT SPACES.

THIS IS AMERICA.

>> FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY THAT I THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN DID EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING IN HIS REMARKS, WHICH IS TO ACT PRESIDENTIAL AND TO -- I THINK YOU'RE ALSO RIGHT THAT HE'S SPEAKING MORE IN AN ASPIRATIONAL SENSE ABOUT, YOU SHOULDN'T USE VIOLENCE IN A DEMOCRACY TO TRY TO CHANGE OUTCOMES AND IT IS NOT AMERICAN TO DO THAT, SO, I THINK HIS CORE MESSAGE WAS ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT ONE, AND IT DOES HELP HIM POLITICALLY TO ACT PRESIDENTIAL.

I THINK YOUR BROADER COMMENT IS ALSO CORRECT, CHRISTIANE, WHICH I SAY IS VERY UNFORTUNATE, BUT IT IS A SAD FACT THAT THE UNITED STATES DOES HAVE AN ELEMENT OF VIOLENCE TO IT THAT WE SEE, AND WHETHER IT'S MENTAL PROBLEMS OR ACCESS TO FIREARMS OR OTHER KIND OF PHENOMENON, BUT BOY, IT'S AN UGLY SIDE OF AMERICA.

>> CAN I JUST ASK YOU, BECAUSE THIS IS GENUINELY, MASSIVELY IMPORTANT.

THE TONE OF THE POLITICAL RHETORIC HAS BEEN JUST SO HEATED, AND FRANKLY, UNDER THE, YOU KNOW, YEARS OF -- HE INTRODUCED IT.

WELL -- HE'S ONE OF THE MODERN, YOU KNOW, USERS OF FAIRLY HEATED POLITICAL RHETORIC.

AND MADE IT FROM THE FRINGE TO THE MAINSTREAM.

SO THAT HIS FOLLOWERS AND ALL THE REST OF IT DO THE SAME.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS ANY WALKING THAT BACK?

YOU KNOW THAT HE'S MOCKED HIS OPPONENTS, WHETHER THEY -- FOR WHATEVER REASON, HE'S USED ALL SORTS OF BORDERLINE VIOLENT RHETORIC, AND EVEN -- WE EVEN HEARD FROM COLLEAGUES THAT EVEN PEOPLE AT THE RALLY WERE BLAMING THE PRESS AND IN TERRIBLE WAYS, YOU KNOW, DIRECTING VIOLENT LANGUAGE TOWARDS THE PRESS.

SO, IS THERE A WAY, IN YOUR LONG EXPERIENCE, TO ACTUALLY PUT A LID ON THAT KIND OF VIOLENT RHETORIC?

>> WELL, I THINK THE TONE COMES FROM THE TOP.

SO, I THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID EXACTLY THE RIGHT TONE IN HIS REMARKS LAST NIGHT, AND WE CAN HOPE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL SET THE RIGHT TONE, AS WELL, BUT I THINK PRESIDENTS OUGHT TO BE INCLUSIVE AND HIGH MINDED.

AND I THINK YOU ARE ALSO RIGHT, THAT'S NOT PART OF TRUMP'S DNA.

HE IS A COMBATIVE PERSONALITY, HE'S A THEATRICAL PERSONALITY, AND HE FREQUENTLY DOESN'T RISE TO THE MOMENT.

SO, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO SHOW HIS BEST SIDE, IF YOU WILL.

THE FACT THAT HE TOOK THE PHONE CALL FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN, I THINK, WAS A WELCOME DEVELOPMENT, THAT THE TWO OF THEM HAD, WE'RE TOLD, A CIVIL DISCOURSE.

THE FACT THAT HE INVITED HIS PREVIOUS OPPONENTS, NIKKI HALEY, AND RON DeSANTIS, IS ALSO A SIGN TO SAY HE RESPECTS HONEST DISAGREEMENTS.

BUT THE REAL TEST WILL COME THURSDAY TO SEE IF HE RISES TO THE MOMENT.

>> CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT SUBSTANCE?

LOOK.

THESE AR-15s ARE THE SUBJECT OF A HUGE AMOUNT OF CONTROVERSY, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OPPOSED A BAN OF ASSAULT RIFLES LIKE THIS.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT SHOULD BE PART OF POLITICAL CONVERSATION GOING FORWARD?

WHAT DO WE ALSO DO ABOUT GUNS?

>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY I THINK PEOPLE HAVE RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE WEAPONS, AS YOU JUST POINTED OUT, WHO SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO ASSAULT WEAPONS?

I THINK OTHER PEOPLE HAVE RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT AGE LIMITS, IF YOU HAVE TO BE 21 YEARS OLD TO HAVE A DRINK IN THE UNITED STATES, SHOULD YOU NOT BE 21 YEARS OLD TO PURCHASE A FIREARM?

IS THIS HIS GUN, DID HE GET IT FROM A FAMILY MEMBER?

CAN HE JUST GO IN A STORE AS A 20-YEAR-OLD AND BUY THIS KIND OF WEAPON AND SHOULD THAT BE LEGAL?

I THINK THOSE ARE VERY FAIR QUESTIONS TO ASK.

>> AND, OF COURSE, THE FBI STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE MOTIVE.

THEY KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE MOTIVE.

BUT -- THERE'S THIS OTHER QUESTION, OF COURSE, ABOUT THE SECRET SERVICE AND THE PEOPLE WHO WERE AT THE ACTUAL RALLY, VIDEOS HAVE COME OUT SHOWING THEM POINTING OUT THIS FIGURE THAT WAS ON A ROOF NOT TOO FAR AWAY.

I MEAN, FROM ALL YOUR EXPERIENCE AND KNOWING WHAT HAPPENED TO REAGAN, I GUESS, IN HIS CASE, THE SHOOTER GOT REALLY CLOSE.

IS THAT JUST -- IS THAT JUST INEVITABLE, OR -- APPARENTLY THERE WASN'T A SECRET SERVICE SWEEP OF THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING, THEY SAY.

>> TO ME, THAT'S INEXPLICABLE WHAT WE SEE ON TELEVISION.

WE MAY NOT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY, BUT THE REPORTS WE'VE SEEN, IT'S JUST IN EXINEXMRIKTABLE.

TO HAVE A SHERIFF'S DEPUTY, OR PATROLMAN ON THAT BUILDING, JUST TO SHOE OFF ONLOOKERS WOULD BE A RATHER RUDIMENTARY PRECAUTION, SO, I CANNOT, FOR THE LIFE OF ME, UNDERSTAND HOW SOMEBODY WOULD GET ACCESS TO THAT BUILDING AND NOT HAVE IT COME TO THE ATTENTION OF THE POLICE OR THE SECRET SERVICE.

>> AND FINALLY, SO, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY YEAR FOR ALL -- ALL REASONS, MOST PARTICULARLY, WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, THE BIDEN IMPLOSION SINCE THE DEBATE, NOW HE SEEMS TO BE HAVING A BIT OF A SECOND WIND WITH THE ABILITY TO ACT PRESIDENTIAL, TALK TO THE PEOPLE, WHAT'S HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, WHERE TRUMP MIGHT BE ABLE TO, AS JEFF ZELENY AND YOU HAVE SAID, EXPAND HIS BASE, IF HE DOES GO THE UNIFYING ROUTE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, WITH ALL YOUR LONG EXPERIENCE, THE REST OF THIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE?

>> I -- I THINK THERE'S STILL AT LEAST ONE MORE TWIST IN THE PLOT, IF I MAY USE THAT EXPRESSION, CHRISTIANE, MEANING, SOMETHING ELSE MIGHT WELL HAPPEN.

THERE'S STILL EVEN AFTER THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION AND THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION, THERE'S STILL ONE MORE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE SCHEDULED, AND THERE'S STILL FOUR MONTHS TO GO, SO, TO INDISCREET MOMENT OR SAY SOMETHING OR DO SOMETHING THAT CHANGED THE NUMBERS, THERE COULD BE AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT THAT CHANGES THE NUMBERS.

SO, THERE'S STILL -- IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A STRAIGHT LINE NARRATIVE, IF I MAY USE SORT OF A HOLLYWOOD PHRASE.

BUT BOY, BIDEN, YOU'RE RIGHT, BIDEN KIND OF GOT A BIT OF A BREAK BECAUSE OF THIS, BECAUSE IT CHANGES THE SUBJECT.

THE DEBATE A WEEK AGO, IS BIDEN TOO OLD FOR THE JOB, IS HE UP TO THE JOB?

THIS JUST CHANGES THE SUBJECT TO TRUMP'S ABILITY TO PERFORM AT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION.

SO, THAT'S A BIT OF AN INDIRECT BREAK FOR JOE BIDEN.

>> SO, I SAID THAT WAS THE FINAL QUESTION, BUT ACTUALLY I WANT TO ASK YOU AGAIN ABOUT THIS UNITY QUESTION, BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN ACCUSING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION OF ACTUALLY THEM, YOU KNOW, CREATING THIS QUOTE UNQUOTE POLITICAL VIOLENCE, WITH THE PROSECUTIONS AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS.

SO, TODAY, HE REACTED TO THE DISMISSAL OF THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS CASE, SO, HE SAYS, AS WE MOVE FORWARD IN UNIFYING OUR NATION, AFTER THE HORRIFIC EVENTS ON SATURDAY, THIS DISMISSAL OF THE LAWLESS INDICTMENT IN FLORIDA SHOULD BE JUST THE FIRST STEP.

THE DEMOCRAT JUSTICE DEPARTMENT COORDINATED ALL OF THESE POLITICAL ATTACKS, WHICH ARE AN ELECTION INTERFERENCE CONSPIRACY AGAINST JOE BIDEN'S POLITICAL OPPONENT, ME.

LET US COME TOGETHER TO END ALL WEAPONIZATION OF OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM AND MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A CALL FOR UNITY AND LOWERING THE RHETORIC?

>> NO, BUT IF -- IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT, CHRISTIANE, BUT I MIGHT SAY, IF I WERE UNDER INDICTMENT, I WOULD MAYBE CHOOSE TO IMPUGN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, AS WELL, I'M NOT SURE THAT'S A FAIR TEST OF TRUMP'S HIGH MINDEDNESS.

I THINK WE REALLY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THURSDAY TO SEEP, WHAT IS HE GOING TO SAY, WHAT KIND OF TONE IS HE GOING TO PITCH ON THAT?

>> AND WE DO ALL EAGERLY AWAIT.

FRANK LAVIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AND I'M GOING TO CONTINUE THE LEGAL SIDE OF THIS WITH -- WITH OUR NEXT GUEST, BECAUSE DESPITE 34 FELONY CONVICTIONS IN NEW YORK, DONALD TRUMP HAS SINCE BEEN RACKING UP LEGAL VICTORIES.

FIRST, THE SUPREME COURT AGREES THAT HIS PRESIDENTIAL ACTS MAKES HIM MOSTLY IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION, AND NOW, THE JUDGE HE APPOINTED, AILEEN CANNON, HAS DISMISSED THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS CASE AGAINST HIM.

JOINING ME NOW IS NEAL KATYAL, A LAW PROFESSOR AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY, AND THE FORMER ACTING U.S.

SOLICITOR GENERAL TO PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA.

NEAL KATYAL, I JUST -- GIVE ME YOUR FIRST REACTION TO THE JUDGE'S DISMISSAL.

WERE YOU SURPRISED?

>> UM -- YES, I WAS SURPRISED.

I THINK, CHRISTIANE, THIS DECISION IS CUCKOO FOR COCOA PUFFS AND IT'S NOT GOING TO STAND.

IT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO DELAY THINGS IN THIS CASE AND CERTAINLY PAST THE ELECTION, BECAUSE APPEALS TAKE TIME, BUT BASICALLY, JUST TO RECAP OUR VIEWERS, DONALD TRUMP WAS ACCUSED OF TAKING HIGHLY CLASSIFIED AND SENSITIVE INFORMATION WITHOUT PERMISSION, KEEPING IT AT HIS GOLF CLUB, MAR-A-LAGO, AND THEN, MOST IMPORTANTLY, LYING ABOUT IT TO FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS AFTER HE WAS ASKED ABOUT THESE DOCUMENTS.

AND THAT'S WHAT HE'S INDICTED FOR.

ONE OF MY JOBS AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WAS TO SERVE AS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, WHERE WE OF COURSE INDICTED CASES LIKE THIS EVERY TIME THEY HAPPENED.

THEY DIDN'T HAPPEN THAT MUCH, FORTUNATELY, BECAUSE PEOPLE KNOW WHO HANDLE CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, JUST HOW SERIOUS THAT MATERIAL IS, AND HOW IT GETTING OUT CAN ENDANGER SOURCES AND METHODS AND THE LIKE.

BUT THAT'S WHAT HE'S ACCUSED OF, AND NOW THE JUDGE COMES ALONG AND TRIES TO INVALIDATE THE PROSECUTOR ON A CUCKOO THEORY.

>> I'M GOING TO GET TO THE PROSECUTOR IN A MOMENT.

SO, WHAT IS -- I WANT YOU TO LAY OUT WHAT HER, YOU KNOW, LEGAL ARGUMENT WAS FOR THROWING IT OUT.

>> YEAH, SO, HER LEGAL ARGUMENT IS THAT THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR JACK SMITH IS NOT AUTHORIZED BY CONGRESS, THAT CONGRESS HAS TO PASS A SPECIFIC LAW NAMING JACK SMITH AS PART OF THE -- AS AN INVESTIGATORY OFFICIAL, AND THEN A FUNDING MECHANISM THAT ISN'T INDEFINITE, SO -- THAT TO PAY FOR HIM.

AND I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT THIS IS, CHRISTIANE, EIGHT DIFFERENT JUDGES OVER THE LAST MANY YEARS, HAVE REJECTED THIS EXACT ARGUMENT.

AND THE SPECIAL COUNSEL REGULATIONS THAT JACK SMITH IS APPOINTED UNDER, I SHOULD SAY, BY WAY OF DOES CLOSURE, I DRAFTED THOSE BACK IN 1999 WHEN I WAS A YOUNG JUSTICE DEPARTMENT STAFFER IS IN CONNECTION WITH THE ENTIRE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

AND WHAT WE DID AFTER WE DRAFTED THEM, I WENT WITH MS. RENO, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, TO THE HILL.

WE WENT TO REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, BIPARTISAN BASIS, WE BRIEFED ALL OF THEIR COUNSEL, WE BRIEFED THE HEADS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, NOT A SINGLE PERSON FROM EITHER POLITICAL PARTY SAID A WORD ABOUT THIS KIND OF IDEA THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL WASN'T AUTHORIZED.

AND THAT'S SO, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD SPECIAL COUNSELS FOR OVER A CENTURY, SINCE THE TIME OF PRESIDENT GRANT.

AND NOW THIS JUDGE COMES ALONG AND WITH A STROKE OF HER PEN, TRIES TO UNDO THESE VERY SERIOUS ACCUSATIONS AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

>> YOU KNOW, YOU SAID YOU DRAFTED THEM IN 1999, EVERYBODY REMEMBERS THE LATE '90s IS WHEN THERE WAS A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, YOU CALL HIM THAT, INVESTIGATING PRESIDENT CLINTON AT THE TIME.

AND AT THAT TIME, THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, ALL OF HIS PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT OVERREACH AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

SO, IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS ON ALL SIDES, RIGHT?

I MEAN, NOBODY LIKES A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, AND -- BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT MANY ADMINISTRATIONS USE THEM.

DIDN'T THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION USE SPECIAL PROSECUTORS?

>> I LOVE YOUR QUESTION, AND SURE, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DID, AS WELL, AND OTHERS DID, BUT I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT THE 1990s, ABSOLUTELY.

THERE WAS SOMETHING CALLED THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL ACT, WHICH IS THE KIND OF SUPERCHARGED SPECIAL PROSECUTOR CREATED IN 1978 AFTER WATERGATE.

AND WHAT THE EXPERIENCE WITH CLINTON SHOWED, TO BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES, WAS THAT THAT WAS TOO AGGRESSIVE, AND IT DIDN'T STRIKE THE RIGHT BALANCE.

AND SO REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER CAME AND SAID, LET'S THROW OUT THIS INDEPENDENT COUNSEL ACT, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS UPHELD WITH THE SUPREME COURT IN A 7-1 DECISION, BUT IT'S NOT GOOD POLICY, AND, INDEED, THE INDEPENDENT PROSECUTOR KEN STARR, WHO WAS INVESTIGATING BILL CLINTON, AT THE VERY TIME, CHRISTIANE, HE TESTIIED ON THE HILL IN HEARINGS ABOUT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL REGULATIONS AND SAID THAT WAS THE WAY TO DO IT, THE SPECIAL COUNSEL REGULATIONS, WHICH WERE JUST INVALIDATED TODAY BY JUDGE CANNON, NOT THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL ACT.

SO, EVEN HE THOUGHT THAT WHAT HE WAS DOING DIDN'T STRIKE THE RIGHT BALANCE, BUT THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL REGULATIONS DID.

AND THIS IS WHAT WE TRIED TO DO.

WE TRIED TO BALANCE ALL THE COMPETING CONSIDERATIONS, POLITICAL AND ACCOUNTABLE AND THE NEED FOR INDEPENDENCE, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE NEED TO GIVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE A GUARANTEE THAT THERE WASN'T GOING TO BE SOME SORT OF COVERUP OR KNEE FAIR USE SYSTEM OF JUSTICE.

YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME SORT OF INDEPENDENCE, AND THAT'S WHAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL DID.

A DIFFERENT WAY OF PUTTING THIS IS JUST TO THINK ABOUT THE REAL WORLD IMPLICATION OF WHAT JUDGE CANNON DID TODAY.

WHAT SHE'S SAYING IS THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND WAS THE ONE WHO HAD TO PROSECUTE DONALD TRUMP AND INVESTIGATE DONALD TRUMP, BUT OF COURSE, GARLAND WAS APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHO IS TRUMP'S POLITICAL RIVAL.

SO, IF GARLAND DID THAT, HE WOULD OPEN HIMSELF UP TO ALL SORTS OF ACCUSATIONS.

THAT'S WHY HE GAVE IT TO AN INDEPENDENT, NONPOLITICAL PROSECUTOR.

AND THE FLIP SIDE'S EVEN SCARIER, BECAUSE IF YOU IMAGINE SOME FUTURE PRESIDENT THAT'S ACCUSED OF SERIOUS WRONGDOING, COULD HE PUT HIS OWN ATTORNEY GENERAL IN TO INVESTIGATE AND POTENTIALLY COVER UP THE POTENTIAL CRIMES?

THAT'S WHAT JUDGE CANNON IS SAYING.

THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY BE THE LAW OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> EXCEPT, RIGHT, THE SUPREME COURT BASICALLY SAID THAT, IN RELATION TO DONALD TRUMP'S JANUARY 6th CHARGES AND ALL THE REST OF IT, THAT HE -- THE SUPREME COURT GRANTED BROAD IMMUNITY, SAYING THAT PRESIDENTIAL ACTS FOR THE MOST PART ARE COVERED UNDER IMMUNITY.

DO YOU THINK JUDGE CANNON -- I KNOW SHE TARGETED THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, BUT DO YOU THINK SHE'S ALSO SAYING, HEY, THE SUPREME COURT'S GIVEN ME COVER.

THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY -- THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY GROUNDS FOR APPEAL?

>> YEAH, NO, THERE'S MASSIVE GROUNDS TO APPEAL, IT'S AN EASY APPEAL.

SO, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY, WHICH IS WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID, AND CAN'T HAVE SPECIAL COUNSELS AT ALL AGAINST ANYONE, INCLUDING A LOWER LEVEL EXECUTIVE BRANCH OFFICIAL OR, SAY, THE PRESIDENT'S SON, HUNTER BIDEN, BECAUSE WHAT SHE DID TODAY WOULD INVALIDATE THE SPECIAL COUNSEL INVESTIGATING HUNTER BIDEN, AS WELL.

I MEAN, BOTH ARE WRONG, BUT THIS IS WRONG ON A DIFFERENT KIND OF SCALE, AND DEGREE.

AND I THINK THE WAY WE KNOW THAT IS THAT THERE WAS ONLY ONE JUSTICE, CHRISTIANE, WHO ADOPTED ANYTHING LIKE THE SPECIAL COUNSEL ILLEGAL VIEW, AND THAT WAS JUSTICE THOMAS, IN THE TRUMP IMMUNITY CASE.

NO ONE ELSE WENT ANYWHERE NEAR THIS, AND THIS IS NOT A DECISION THAT I SUSPECT WILL STAND THE TEST OF TIME.

>> DO YOU THINK IT WITH US A POLITICAL DECISION?

>> OH, I DON'T GO INTO JUDGES' MOTIVATIONS.

>> I TRIED.

I TRIED.

EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY THIS HAPPENED, GIVEN EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE LAID OUT AND THE FACT THAT WE'VE SEEN SPECIAL COUNSELS FOR DECADES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICAL AISLE.

SO, JUST, AGAIN, FINALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SEVERAL CASES AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, SEVERAL INDICTMENTS, AND THIS ONE WAS CONSIDERED ONE OF THE MOST SERIOUS.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

IT WAS -- IT'S REALLY AN OPEN AND SHUT CRIMINAL CASE.

IT SHOULD HAVE ALREADY GONE TO TRIAL.

IT'S -- IT'S REALLY EASY, AND UNFORTUNATELY, THIS JUDGE HAS SLOW-WALKED THE CASE, AND NOW HAS DONE THIS, AND SO, I THINK REALLY -- THIS IS GOING TO GO TO A VERY FAST APPEAL IN THE COURT OF APPEALS, AND REALLY, THE ONLY QUESTION FOR THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR JACK SMITH IS WHETHER HE'S GOING TO NOT JUST APPEAL, BUT SEEK THE REMOVAL OF JUDGE CANNON.

THAT'S SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO SEEK.

I SUSPECT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE.

THIS JUDGE HAS ALREADY BEEN REBUKED TWICE BY THE COURT OF APPEALS IN VERY SERIOUS LANGUAGE.

IN THIS VERY CASE.

AND IT MAY BE THAT THREE STRIKES YOU'RE OUT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE.

>> INCREDIBLE THAT IT HAPPENS ON THIS DAY, AS WELL.

VERY, VERY INTERESTING.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEGAL ANALYSIS.

APPRECIATE IT.

>>> SO, AS AMERICA REELS FROM THIS MOMENT OF VIOLENCE, MANY ARE REFLECTING AND CONDEMNING THE RISE IN POLITICAL VIOLENCE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

HERE IS PRESIDENT BIDEN AGAIN SPEAKING DURING HIS SUNDAY ADDRESS.

>> A FORMER PRESIDENT WAS SHOT.

AN AMERICAN CITIZEN KILLED.

WHILE SIMPLE EXERCISE OF SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE OF HIS CHOOSING.

WE CANNOT, WE MUST NOT GO DOWN THIS ROAD AS AMERICA.

VIOLENCE HAS NEVER BEEN THE ANSWER.

WHETHER IT'S WITH MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND BOTH PARTIES BEING TARGETED AND SHOT, OR A VIOLENT MOB ATTACKING THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th, OR BRUTAL ATTACK ON A SPOUSE OF FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE NANCY PELOSI.

OR INFORMATION AND INTIMIDATION ON ELECTION OFFICIALS.

OR THE KIDNAPPING PLATT AGAINST THE SITTING GOVERNOR.

OR AN ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION ON DONALD TRUMP.

>> OUR NEXT GUEST IS AN EXPERT ON THIS POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

CYNTHIA MILLER-IDRISS IS WITH US FROM AMERICAN UNIVERSITY AND JOINING ME NOW FROM WASHINGTON, D.C.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO, YOU JUST BASICALLY HEARD -- WELL, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE WEEKEND AND YOU HEARD PRESIDENT BIDEN BASICALLY LIST A SERIES OF RECENT ACTS OF POLITICAL VIOLENCE THAT'S ALL HAPPENED PRETTY MUCH IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO.

FROM EVERYTHING YOU STUDY, DO YOU THINK IT WAS A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE IT REACHED THIS TERRIBLE LEVEL?

>> I ABSOLUTELY THINK IT WAS A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE WE GOT TO POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS, I MEAN, THAT HAS BEEN SORT OF WRITTEN ON THE WALL FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

WE'VE BEEN IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS BEFORE IN THE 1960s.

THIS IS THE KIND OF VIOLENCE WE WERE SEEING, AND NOT ONLY THE ESCALATIONS THAT PRECEDED THIS, IN TERMS OF THE THREATS THAT BIDEN JUST LAID OUT, BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT WE'VE HAD POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS IN GERMANY AND THE UK IN RECENT YEARS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A GLOBAL KIND OF -- OF UPTICK IN THIS, WITH THE RISING TEMPERATURE, AND LIKELIHOOD TO USE AND WILLINGNESS TO USE POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

>> CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH, FROM ALL YOUR RESEARCH AND STUDIES, WHAT IS THE PATH TOWARDS THIS VIOLENCE?

WHY IS THERE THIS MASSIVE UPTICK NOW?

>> WELL, THERE'S SORT OF -- THERE'S SEVERAL DIFFERENT ROOT CAUSES THAT LEAD TO INCREASING WILLINGNESS TO SUPPORT AND ENGAGE IN POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

ONE OF THOSE IS AN ENVIRONMENT OR A CLIMATE WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF US VERSUS THEM RHETORIC HAPPENING, SO, A KIND OF SENSE THAT THERE'S AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT COMING FROM THE OTHER SIDE THAT HAS TO BE MET WITH VIOLENCE.

AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE EVEN THINK THAT'S HEROIC VIOLENCE.

SO, WE HAVE SEEN THAT A LOT OF TIMES AROUND CONSPIRACY THEORIES RELATED TO THE GREAT REPLACEMENT, BUT ALSO IN TERMS OF POLITICAL VIOLENCE AND PEOPLE THINKING THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO SAVE DEMOCRACY.

WE SAW THAT ON JANUARY 6th, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT I WILL ALSO SAY THAT IN NATIONAL SURVEY AFTER NATIONAL SURVEY, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THE SINGLE BIGGEST PREDICTOR, OR AMONG THE TOP THREE PREDICTORS OF SUPPORT FOR POLITICAL VIOLENCE AND WILLINGNESS TO ENGAGE IN IT, IS HOSTILE SEXISM OR MISGOINGNY.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE REALLY DON'T TALK ABOUT VERY OFTEN IN THESE CONVERSATIONS, IS, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO HAVE RISING ONLINE MISOGYNY AND HOSTILE SEXISM AND THE KIND OF DEHUMANIZATION THAT GOES WITH THAT, AND THEN WILLINGNESS TO ENGAGE IN POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

>> OKAY, SO, FOR ME, THAT'S VERY INTERESTING, AND FOR EVERYBODY, IT SHOULD BE.

BUT IN THE THIS CASE, IT'S -- APPEARS TO BE MAN ON MAN.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, NOT TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUAL MOTIVATIONS OF A SINGLE ACTOR IN THAT CASE, BUT TALKING ABOUT THE POPULATION LEVEL WILLINGNESS TO SUPPORT POLITICAL VIOLENCE, WHICH HOVERS NOW BETWEEN 10% AND 20% IN THE U.S., THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, WHEN I'M SAYING THAT'S TIED TO OTHER TYPES OF MISOGYNY AND HOSTILE SEXISM.

WE DON'T KNOW THE SHOOTER'S MOTIVATIONS HERE.

AND IN THE RONALD REAGAN CASE, WE SAW SOMEONE WHO THOUGHT HE WAS IMPRESSING A MOVIE STAR.

SO, I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL TO ATTRIBUTING MOTIVATIONS YET.

>> YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, OF COURSE.

NOW, BUILDING ON WHAT YOU JUST SAID, I WANT TO QUOTE SOME STATS, BUT PBS NEWSHOUR SHOWED THAT 1 IN 5, 20%, THAT'S 1 IN 5 U.S.

ADULTS AGREED THAT, QUOTE, AMERICANS MAY HAVE TO RESORT TO VIOLENCE TO GET THEIR COUNTRY BACK ON TRACK.

AMONGST RETURNS, THE NUMBER WAS HIGHER, 28%, 12% AMONGST DEMOCRATS.

THAT'S PRETTY DIRE.

SO, EXPLAIN TO US THIS BUSINESS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, TRUMP'S SUPPORTERS BELIEVE THAT HE IS THE DEFENDER OF THE COUNTRY AND OF AMERICAN VALUES.

BIDEN'S SUPPORTERS BELIEVE THAT HE IS DEFENDING AMERICA FROM AUTHORITARIAN TENDENCIES THAT WOULD CRASH AMERICA'S DEMOCRACY.

THAT -- THIS STUFF IS PLAYING INTO WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE UPTICK IN POLITICAL VIOLENCE, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, AND I WOULD ADD TO THAT, I MEAN, THOSE STATISTICS ARE DIRE ENOUGH ALREADY -- >> YEAH.

>> BUT WE ALSO HAVE SEEN DATA THAT SHOWS THOSE NUMBERS GET EVEN WORSE IF PEOPLE ARE ASKED, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE OTHER SIDE IS VIOLENT FIRST, THEN IT GOES UP TO AS HIGH AS 40% THAT PEOPLE SAY THEY'D BE WILLING TO USE POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

SO, YOU KNOW, IN THESE MOMENTS WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND FALSE FLAG KIND OF IDEAS AND FALSE MISINFORMATION, DISINFORMATION CIRCULATING, WE'RE AT HIGH RISK, YOU KNOW, OF ADDITIONAL VIOLENCE, BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK THE OTHER SIDE HAS ALREADY DONE IT.

YOU KNOW, BUT IN TERMS OF YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S UNDERPINNING THIS, ON THE ONE HAND, YES, YOU HAVE BOTH SIDES PRESENTING AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT, THE IDEA THAT DEMOCRACY IS IN DIRE STRAIGHTS, AND IT IS, WE'RE ON A LIST OF BACKSLIDING DEMOCRACIES GLOBALLY.

THINGS ARE NOT GOING SO WELL FOR THE U.S. ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

SO, YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF SENSE, AND THEN, YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, THIS BUBBLING UP AMONG ORDINARY CITIZENS OF SUPPORTING VIOLENCE.

SO, IT'S NOT JUST AMONG ELITES.

IT'S AMONG ORDINARY CITIZENS.

PEOPLE ON MY SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS HAVE BEEN SAYING, YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY DANGEROUS TO ACTUALLY JUSTIFY A POLITICAL ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT.

>> AND THEN, YOU HAVE WHAT EVERYBODY CALLS A MOMENT, WE'RE RIGHT ON THE EVE, OR WE'RE RIGHT AT THE START OF THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID LOWER THE TEMPERATURE, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SAID HE'S CHANGING HIS SPEECH TO REFLECT A NEW CALL FOR UNITY.

IN YOUR RESEARCH, HOW MUCH DOES THE INTERVENTION OF LEADERS, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, AFFECT THE GRASS ROOTS, 1 IN 5, 20%, 40% AS YOU JUST SAID, THOSE WHO MIGHT HAVE TENDENCIES TOWARDS VIOLENCE?

>> WELL, IT DOES HELP.

IT HELPS A LOT TO SEE THE TEMPERATURE GET LOWERED FROM POLITICAL ELITES, FROM ELECTED OFFICIALS.

WE DEFINITELY WANT TO SEE THAT, THE LANGUAGE OF UNITY, AND THE REJECTION OF VIOLENCE.

THE QUESTION IS, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS, CAN YOU PUT THE GENIE BACK IN THE BOTTLE?

AND HOW QUICKLY CAN YOU DO THAT?

AND THERE, I'M A LITTLE MORE SKEPTICAL.

I THINK WE DO SEE THAT AMONG ORDINARY CITIZENS WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, EITHER JUSTIFYING THIS VIOLENCE, OR CALLING FOR SIMILAR REPRISAL ATTACKS, THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY LISTENING RIGHT NOW TO WHAT TWO CANDIDATES ARE SAYING.

THEY HAVE ALREADY MADE UP THEIR MIND, AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE HAVE TO SEE SOME VIGILANCE AND SOME REAL DE-ESCALATION HAPPENING IN COMMUNITIES, NOT JUST AMONG POLITICAL ELITES AND ELECTED OFFICIALS.

>> AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS, WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT THIS -- I MEAN, THE GENIE BACK IN THE BOTTLE.

BUT THERE ARE METHODS OF BRIDGING, OF MAKING CONNECTIONS, AS OPPOSED TO JUST CONSTANTLY PULLING BACK INTO SILOS TRIBES AND CONVINCED PARTISAN POLITICAL AND SOCIAL, RELIGIOUS, I MEAN, ALL THOSE POSITIONS THAT PEOPLE NOW HOLD AND TREAT THE OPPOSITION AS ENEMY, RATHER THAN JUST A POLITICAL OPPONENT.

>> YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THE FIRST THING TO SAY ABOUT THAT IS, THERE'S REALLY GOOD EVIDENCE THAT YOU CAN PREVENT PEOPLE FROM BELIEVING HARMFUL INFORMATION THAT PERSUADES THEM TO TAKE VIOLENCE AS THE SOLUTION, OR TO SEE VIOLENCE AS THE SOLUTION TO THEIR POLITICAL PROBLEMS, OR TO THE PROBLEMS THEY SEE IN THE WORLD.

IT JUST HAS TO BE DONE BEFORE THEY BELIEVE IT, RIGHT?

THERE'S -- THERE'S A KIND OF PREVENTATIVE WORK, VERY UPSTREAM, THAT IS EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE, EVIDENCE-BASED, THAT PEOPLE REJECT PROPAGANDA, HARMFUL ONLINE CONTENT, CONSPIRACY THEORIES, IF THEY'RE WARNED ABOUT THEM BEFORE THEY ENCOUNTER THEM.

ONCE THEY ALREADY BELIEVE THEM, ONCE THEY ALREADY BELIEVE AN ELECTION IS INVALID, ONCE THEY BELIEVE THERE'S AN ORCHESTRATED ATTEMPT TO -- TO DISRUPT AND ELECTION OR SOMETHING, THAT'S MUCH HARDER TO COME BACK FROM.

IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE, BUT IT'S MUCH MORE LIKE A THERAPEUTIC INTERVENTION AND NOT A LARGE SCALE KIND OF MEDIA LITERACY INTERVENTION.

SO, WE DO NEED THOSE TYPES OF THINGS TO HAPPEN, AND IT HAPPENS ACROSS THE DINNER TABLE AS MUCH AS IT HAPPENS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

AND THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SORT OF URGE PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT IS, WHAT ARE THEY SEEING IN THEIR OWN MOMENT ENVIRONMENTS AND THEIR COMMUNITIES IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING VIOLENCE, AND WHAT ARE THEY SAYING TO DE-ESCALATE OR BUILD BRIDGES ACROSS THOSE DIVIDES IN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOODS?

>> AND THEN, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING AND SEEING WHEN THEY -- WHEN THEY WATCH FOUR DAYS, OR HOWEVER LONG IT IS, OF THIS REPUBLICAN CONVENTION, THAT WILL HAVE ALL AND ANY NUMBER OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE SO-CALLED FLAME THROWERS ON THE MAGA SIDE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, I MEAN -- THERE'S A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY NOW, THE SPOTLIGHT WILL ABSOLUTELY BE ON ALL OF THEM FOR THE NEXT -- FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT THEY NEED TO DO?

>> I MEAN, THERE'S A VERY CLEAR NEED TO DE-ESCALATE ANY CALLS FOR VIOLENCE, VIOLENT RHETORIC, TO CALL FOR UNITY, AND TO -- TO REALLY CALL ON CITIZENS TO REMEMBER OUR OWN HUMANITY.

NO ONE DESERVES TO BE SHOT.

I NEVER WANT TO HEAR THAT KIND OF RHETORIC, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE'S POLITICAL IDEAS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I'M HEARING THAT TYPE OF JUSTIFICATION FROM -- FROM ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

WE HEAR COLLEGE STUDENTS ON OUR OWN CAMPUSES REGULARLY NOW SAYING THINGS LIKE, THERE'S NO POLITICAL SOLUTION.

WHETHER THAT'S TO CLIMATE CHANGE OR TO IMMIGRATION REFORM, ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

THAT'S A CALL TO VIOLENCE, RIGHT?

IF YOU HEAR A YOUNG PERSON SAYS, THERE IS NO MORE POLITICAL SOLUTION, THAT'S A MOMENT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THEM.

SO, YES, I THINK WE HAVE TO SEE THAT DE-ESCALATION HAPPENING ACROSS THE BOARD, THE FLAME THROWERS, AS YOU SAY, ARE PROBLEMATIC, BUT I'M SEEING IT IN MUCH MORE ORDINARY AND EVERYDAY WAYS THAT WORRY ME JUST AS MUCH.

>> AND IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT NIKKI HALEY SAYS AND HOW SHE USES IT, BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN INVITED, I GUESS, IN ORDER TO SHOW SOME UNITY AND SHE -- WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> IT IS A GOOD MOMENT.

>> CYNTHIA MILLER-IDRISS, THANK YOU SO MUCH, INDEED, FOR BEING WITH US TONIGHT.

>>> NOW, ACROSS THE WORLD, LEADERS ARE ALSO SENDING MESSAGES OF SUPPORT FOR CANDIDATE AND FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THE FRENCH PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON WISHES HIM A SPEEDY RECOVERY AND DECRYING THE ATTACK ON SATURDAY AS, QUOTE, A TRAGEDY FOR OUR DEMOCRACIES.

UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY SENT SIMILAR WELL WISHES AND SAID SUCH VIOLENCE HAS NO PLACE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

AND THEN, THERE ARE THESE RESPONSES.

THE ARGENTINEAN PRESIDENT, JAVIER MILEI, BLAMES THE, QUOTE, INTERNATIONAL LEFT.

THE SLOVENIAN PRESIDENT ROBERT FICO POINTED THE FINGER AT TRUMP'S POLITICAL OPPONENTS.

ALSO AT HIS PRESS CORPS.

MY NEXT GUEST HAS BEEN WORKING TO COMBAT TOXICITY IN POLITICS IN HER OWN COUNTRY, THAT IS ICELAND'S PRESIDENT-ELECT, HALA TOMASDOTTIR.

SHE EMPHASIZED THE IMPORTANCE BUILDING BRIDGES AND CREATING A NEW PARADIGM FOR POLITICS IN HER CAMPAIGN.

SHE JOINS ME NOW FROM NEW YORK.

AND I KNOW I MANGLED YOUR NAME.

TOMASDOTTIR.

>> IT MEANS THE DAUGHTER OF TOMAS.

THANK YOU HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

I WANT TO KNOW, AS A POLITICIAN NOW, A PRESIDENT-ELECT, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND, YOU ARE IN NEW YORK AT THIS MOMENT, WHEN YOU HEARD WHAT HAPPENED ON SATURDAY?

>> WELL, I'M JUST DEEPLY SADDENED, HONESTLY, CHRISTIANE.

THERE IS NO PLACE FOR VIOLENCE IN POLITICS OR ANYWHERE, AND IT WON'T SOLVE OUR DEEP DISAGREEMENTS AND DIVISIONS THAT WE'RE SEEING NOT JUST IN THE U.S., BUT INCREASINGLY AROUND THE WORLD, ALTHOUGH, IT SEEMS MORE SEVERE THIS HERE.

I DO WANT TO EXTEND MY CONDOLENCES TO COREY AND HIS FAMILY AND THOSE INJURED IN THE INCIDENT.

I BELIEVE THE GLOBAL RISK REPORT SAID EARLIER THIS YEAR, THE GREATEST RISK IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW IS THAT AMERICA IS AT WAR WITH ITSELF.

>> IT'S REALLY QUITE SOBERING TO HEAR YOU SAY THAT, AND, OF COURSE, YOU MENTIONED THE GENTLEMAN WHO WAS KILLED, AS HE WAS TRYING TO PROTECT HIS OWN FAMILY FROM -- FROM THE GUNFIRE.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU SAID THERE'S NO PLACE FOR THIS IN POLITICS.

OBVIOUSLY IN AMERICA, THERE IS.

IT'S HAPPENED REPEATEDLY.

AND SO, YOU ALSO MAYBE HEARD OUR LAST GUEST WHO SAID THAT WHEN SHE HEARS YOUNG PEOPLE SAY THIS CAN'T BE RESOLVED BY POLITICS, OR, YOU KNOW, THEY GIVE UP ON POLITICS, IT'S SORT OF CODE FOR, WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER EXTREME RESORTS.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE IN ICELAND?

HAS THERE EVER BEEN, YOU KNOW, EVEN A HINT OF POLITICAL VIOLENCE?

AND IF NOT, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH GETTING PEOPLE TO REMAIN POLITICALLY ENGAGED TO FIGURE OUT SOLUTIONS AND HOW TO HAVE CIVIL, POLITICAL DEBATES?

>> WELL, I'VE LONG BEEN CONVINCED, CHRISTIANE, THAT WE NEED A DIFFERENT APPROACH IN POLITICS AND LEADERSHIP ALIKE, BECAUSE THERE ARE DEEP DIVISIONS, AND EVEN IN RATHER SAFE ICELAND, WHERE GUN OWNERSHIP AND USE IS -- IS MUCH LESS OF A RISK, JUST TO GIVE YOU ONE STATISTIC FOR COMPARISON THAT OVER THE LAST QUARTER CENTURY, WE'VE HAD A TOTAL OF FIVE DEATHS BECAUSE OF GUN VIOLENCE.

SO, IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT REALITY AND OUR POLICE AS A NORMAL -- AS A NORMAL DAY -- ON A NORMAL DAY WOULDN'T EVEN CARRY AROUND GUNS.

SO, IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT REALITY.

BUT WE ARE SEEING DIVISIONS AND DISAGREEMENTS IN CREASINGLY IN ICELAND AND ELSEWHERE.

I FIRMLY BELIEVE WE NEED TO CLOSE THE GENDER AND GENERATIONAL GAPS IN LEADERSHIP IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD WITH NEW LEADERSHIP PLAYBOOK.

I JUST DON'T THINK THAT EVERYTHING THAT WE CARE ABOUT, BIG EGOS AND THIS FOCUS ON INDIVIDUAL LEADERS IS GOING TO GET US THROUGH THIS CRISIS OF TRUST THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD, AND SO, FOR DECADES, I'VE BEEN A PROPONENT OF WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP AND FOR MY CAMPAIGN, I REALLY FOCUSED ON MOBILIZING YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY WERE AT THE CORE OF OUR CAMPAIGN.

WE EVEN HAD YOUNG PEOPLE RUNNING THEIR OWN OFFICE AND CAMPAIGN TEAM.

THEY RAN MY TIKTOK ACCOUNT.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE FOCUSED ON A VERY POSITIVE CAMPAIGN.

AND I MADE IT VERY CLEAR TO MY TEAM AND MY SUPPORTERS THAT IF ANYBODY DIDN'T UPHOLD TO THAT PROMISE OF A POSITIVE CAMPAIGN, WHERE WE NEVER WENT LOW, VIOLENT, HATEFUL, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THEY HEARD FROM ME IMMEDIATELY.

AND THEY JUST DIDN'T, BECAUSE I THINK LEADERS AT A TIME LIKE THIS, THEY NEED TO SET THE RIGHT TONE.

>> WHICH IS AMAZING TO HEAR, BUT OF COURSE, THE OTHER SIDE WILL WELL, IT'S REALLY NICE THAT ICELAND CAN DO THAT, BUT IT'S A LITTLE COUNTRY, THE MOST VIOLENCE YOU HAVE THERE ARE VOLCANOES.

CAN YOU REALLY DO THAT IN A COUNTRY AS BIG AND DIVERSE AS THE UNITED STATES?

DO YOU THINK YOUR POLITICAL, YOU KNOW, PHILOSOPHY CAN ACTUALLY WORK IN BIGGER, MORE DIVERSE COUNTRIES?

>> YEAH, MAYBE IMPORTANT TO SAY HERE, CHRISTIANE, THAT OUR VOLCANOS ARE NOT DANGEROUS AND ICELAND IS SAFE TO VISIT -- >> OH, MY GOD, I'M SORRY.

I -- I DIDN'T MEAN THAT.

>> NO, THAT'S OKAY, THAT'S OKAY, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE WELCOME TO ICELAND AND MIGHT FIND SOME INSPIRATION IN MOTHER NATURE CREATING NEW LAND AND GENDER EQUALITY AND SUSTAINABLE ENERGY AND ALL THE THINGS THAT THIS INCREDIBLE COUNTRY IS AN EXAMPLE FOR.

I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU I THINK IT'S AS EASY IN THE UNITED STATES AS IT IS IN ICELAND, NOR AM I GOING TO TELL YOU IT'S EASY IN ICELAND.

BUT WE NEED MORE HUMANITY AND MORE HUMILITY.

AND WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT LEADERSHIP, NOT NECESSARILY AS COMING FROM ANY SINGLE LEADER IN ANY ONE COUNTRY OR POLITICAL PARTY OR SECTOR OR SOCIETY.

WE NEED, AND THIS IS VERY MUCH I EMPHASIZED IN MY CAMPAIGN, WE NEED TO START BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER ACROSS THE DIFFERENT GROUPS AND OPINIONS, DIFFERENT GENDERS AND GENERATIONS, BECAUSE, IN A LOW TRUST ENVIRONMENT, WE CANNOT GO FORWARD IN A BETTER WAY WITHOUT LEARNING TO BREATHE AGAIN, TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER, TO BE WILLING TO LEARN AND EVEN CHANGE OUR OPINIONS.

AND I THINK THIS IS GOING TO REQUIRE, I GUESS, A VERY DIFFERENT LEADERSHIP MODEL, AND I HOPE THAT THIS TRAGEDY IS A WARNING, AND A WAKEUP CALL, WHERE AMERICANS, EVERY AMERICAN, THINKS HARD ABOUT, HOW WILL I CHOOSE TO REACT TO THIS?

HOW WILL I CHOOSE -- CAN I LAY DOWN THE WEAPONS, WHETHER I USE THEM THROUGH MY WORDS OR ACTUAL AND PHYSICAL WEAPONS?

AND CAN I START TO CHOOSE MY WORLDS AND MY ACTIONS MORE CAREFULLY?

BECAUSE I REALLY BELIEVE THAT A SELECTIVE SHIFT IN BEHAVIOR IS POSSIBLE AT THIS MOMENT, AND I HOPE THE UNITED STATES WILL CHOOSE A DIFFERENT PATH FORWARD.

IT STARTS WITH LEADERS, BUT I THINK EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAS A ROLE TO PLAY NOW, AND I HOPE NOT JUST FOR AMERICA'S SAKE, BUT FOR THE WORLD'S SAKE, THAT THIS IS A MOMENT WE WILL EMERGE FROM WITH A DIFFERENT MIND-SET ABOUT WHAT MATTERS, AND LIFE MATTERS.

>> YOU KNOW, MY PREVIOUS GUEST WAS BASICALLY SAYING THAT ALL THEIR DATA SHOWED THAT EXTREMISM AND ALIENATION AND THIS KIND OF VIOLENT RHETORIC, ET CETERA, IS ALSO, YOU KNOW, REALLY SORT OF ROCKET FUELED BY SEXISM AND MISOGYNY.

AND YOUR COUNTRY, ICELAND, IS THE MOST GENDER EQUAL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

YOU HAD THE FIRST DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED FEMALE PRESIDENT BACK IN 1980.

HOW DOES THAT EFFECT THE SOCIETY AT LARGE IN YOUR COUNTRY?

>> YES, I'M SO GLAD YOU ASK ABOUT THIS, CHRISTIANE, BECAUSE I COULDN'T BE PROUDER TO BE ICELANDIC.

HISTORICALLY, WOMEN CHANGED MY OUTLOOK ON LIFE WHEN I WAS ONLY 7 YEARS OLD, BECAUSE THEY -- THEY WENT ON A STRIKE, AND NOTHING WORKED IN ICELAND ON THAT DAY.

SO, THAT'S THE BEST EXAMPLE OF COLLECTIVE, COURAGEOUS LEADERSHIP I'VE SEEN.

AND I GUESS I PERSONALLY LEARNED THAT DAY THAT WHEN WE STAND IN SOLIDARITY, PEACEFULLY, AND ENJOY AND SISTERHOOD, WE CAN ACTUALLY SHIFT AND CHANGE THE WORLD.

AND FIVE YEARS LATER, WE WERE THE FIRST TO DEMOCRATICALLY ELECT A WOMAN AS PRESIDENT.

AND SHE WAS A HUGE ROLE MODEL FOR ME, ELECTED IN 1980, I WAS 11 YEARS OLD.

SHE OFTEN SAID DURING HER PRESIDENCY THAT IF THE WORLD CAN BE SAVED, IT WILL BE DONE BY WOMEN AND MEN WHO HAVE THE COURAGE TO SUPPORT -- SUPPORT I HAVE TO SAY, I HAVE, FOR DECADES, BEEN AN OUTSPOKEN ADVOCATE FOR MORE WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP, BUT INCREASINGLY IN MY CAMPAIGN NOW, I WANT US TO CLOSE NOT JUST THE GENDER GAPS, BUT ALSO THE GENERATIONAL GAPS IN LEADERSHIP, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THEY HOLD THE KEY TO A LIVABLE WORLD, AND I THINK WHETHER IT'S WOMEN OR YOUNG PEOPLE, AND MANY MEN WHO SUPPORT THIS NEW LEADERSHIP APPROACH TO LIFE, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SOME INSPIRATION IN HOW WE CAN DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY.

AND THIS IS CAN BE A MOMENT THAT AMERICA CHOOSES TO SAY THERE IS ANOTHER AND BETTER WAY FORWARD, AND I HOPE SINCERELY THAT WE WILL CHOOSE TO DO THAT NOW.

BECAUSE IT MATTERS TO ALL OF US.

>> AND I KNOW YOU LIVED AND WORKED IN THE UNITED STATES FOR A LONG TIME, AS WELL.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT TIKTOK, YOU HAD YOUNG PEOPLE ON TIKTOK FOR THE CAMPAIGN.

BUT THERE WAS ALSO THE ISSUE OF THE SILK SCARF.

YOU ARE WEARING ONE RIGHT NOW, SO, I'M GOING TO BRING IT UP.

YOU HAD THAT IN THE FIRST DEBATE AND THEN EVERYBODY HAD OPINIONS, EVEN IN ICELAND ABOUT IT.

THE SCARF WENT VIRAL, EVEN DOGS, MEN STARTED WEARING THEM.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO SEE THIS TIKTOK VIDEO, AS WE TALK.

BUT THE TEXT SAYS, USE YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE.

SO -- SO WHAT WAS THIS MOMENT ALL ABOUT?

>> WELL, FIRST, I REALLY DID SPEAK A LOT TO YOUNG PEOPLE THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT NOT JUST TO USE THEIR RIGHT, BUT ALSO THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO VOTE.

AND I AM PROUD OF THE FACT THAT WE HAD 80% OF VOTER TURNOUT IN ICELAND, WHICH IS THE BEST IN THREE DECADES.

75% OF THE VOTE WENT TO WOMEN CANDIDATES.

I BELIEVE -- I THINK PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY SUFFERING RIGHT NOW, CHRISTIANE, AND I THINK THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A MORE POSITIVE APPROACH, AND A SENSE OF BELONGING.

AND I'M AFRAID POLITICIANS BUSINESS LEADERS ARE NOT ALWAYS OFFERING PEOPLE THAT.

TO ME, THE SILK SCARF BECAME A COMMUNITY-BASED CAMPAIGN.

IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT ME, BUT IT WAS ABOUT A VISION OF BRINGING ALL OF US TOGETHER, TO CRAFT A BETTER WAY FORWARD FOR ICELAND.

A WAY FORWARD THAT DOESN'T USE VIOLENCE AS A WAY TO SETTLE DISAGREEMENTS, BUT DIALOGUE AND DESIGN, BECAUSE WE'RE AT A TRANSFORMATIONAL TIME, CHRISTIANE.

WE CANNOT DELIVER A BETTER FUTURE FOR THE NEXT GENERATION THAT INCREASINGLY HAS LOST HOPE WITHOUT INVITING THEM TO BE ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS IN SHAPING THAT FUTURE.

>> CONNECTIONS IS THE WORD.

HALLA TOMASDOTTIR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, RUTH WEST HIMMER, AMERICA'S BEST KNOWN SEX PSYCHOLOGIST, WHO TACKLED TABOOS FOR DECADES, BETTER KNOWN AS DR. RUTH, SHE DIED ON FRIDAY, AGED 96, AFTER A LONG CAREER DEVOTED TO OPENING UP CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SEX.

HER UNMISTAKEN GERMAN ACCENT, HER FRANKNESS, AND HER HUMOR, MADE HER 1980s RADIO PROGRAM "SEXUALLY SPEAKING" A RATINGS SENSATION.

JUST LAST YEAR, SHE WAS NAMED NEW YORK STATE'S FIRST HONORARY AMBASSADOR TO LONELINESS.

TO ADDRESS THE GROWING ISSUE OF SOCIAL ISOLATION.

SHE STRUGGLED WITH THIS HERSELF, AFTER HER PARENTS WERE BOTH KILLED IN THE HOLOCAUST WHEN SHE WAS JUST 10 YEARS OLD.

I SPOKE WITH HER BACK IN 2019 ABOUT BEING A TALK SHOW HOST AND WHY SO MANY PEOPLE TRUSTED AND OPENED UP TO HER.

THIS BEGINS WITH A CLIP OF HER CALL-IN SHOW.

>> I AM RECENTLY BECOME VERY SERIOUS WITH THIS MAN, AND WE MAY BE GETTING MARRIED.

AND I'M JUST A LITTLE AFRAID THAT HE MIGHT ASK ME HOW MANY MEN I HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ACTIVE WITH, AND I FEEL EMBARRASSED TO TELL HIM THE TRUTH, I'M AFRAID HE'LL THINK DIFFERENTLY OF ME.

DO YOU THINK I SHOULD FIB OR TELL HIM THE TRUTH?

>> I TELL YOU, FROM THE WAY I LISTEN TO YOU, I WOULD SAY TO YOU, DO NOT TELL THE TRUTH.

DO NOT.

>> DO NOT?

>> WELL, THERE'S SOME STRATEGIC HOLDING BACK THERE.

WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE OPENED UP TO YOU SO MUCH FROM THE BEGINNING?

>> I -- I FIRST OF ALL WAS VERY WELL-TRAINED.

THE FIRST SEX THERAPIST AT CORNELL MEDICAL SCHOOL, I WORKED WITH HER FOR SEVEN YEARS, TWO YEARS BEING TRAINED, FIVE YEARS TRAINING OTHERS, SO, I'M VERY FORTUNATE.

ALSO, I'M VERY JEWISH, AND IN THE JEWISH TRADITION, IT SAYS, A LESSON TAUGHT WITH HUMOR IS A LESSON RETAINED.

NOT A JOKE.

I COULDN'T TELL YOU A JOKE.

BUT I CAN HEAR SOME QUESTION AND ANSWER WITH HUMOR, LIKE, WHAT I TOLD THAT WOMAN, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

DON'T TELL ABOUT YOUR PAST.

THAT'S THE PAST.

LIVE RIGHT NOW, AND MAKE THE BEST OF IT.

SO, IT'S A LITTLE BIT THE COMBINATION OF BEING VERY WELL-TRAINED, A MASTERS, A DOCTORATE, I'M TEACHING NOW.

THAT COMBINATION HELPED.

AND WHAT HELPED IS THAT I LOVE WHAT I'M DOING.

>> DR. RUTH, AND ALL SHE GAVE TO ALL OF US.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.