♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

TOO MUCH HEAT TO HANDLE.

AS TEMPERATURES SOAR IN EUROPE, I'M JOINED BY GREECE'S TOURISM MINISTER AND A TOP OFFICIAL FROM THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION ABOUT HOW THEY'RE ADJUSTING TO A CLIMATE CRISIS THAT'S ALREADY HERE.

THEN -- >> THE MAJORITY OF ACTORS AREN'T MILLIONAIRES.

WE'RE THE WORKING CLASS AS WELL.

>> HOLLYWOOD GRINDS TO A HALT.

WHAT'S BEHIND THE STRIKE, AND CAN ANYTHING BREAK THE STALEMATE?

I ASK WRITER ALEX O'KEEFE FROM "THE BEAR" AND ACTOR SHAAN SHARMA.

>> PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SHOVE ALL THESE CAMERAS AND MICROPHONES IN MY FACE, I'M GOING TO USE THEM TO SAY WHAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE SAID.

>> LIFE AFTER GOING VIRAL.

CENTRAL PARK BIRD-WATCHER CHRISTIAN COOPER TALKED TO MICHEL MARTIN ABOUT UNEXPECTED FAME AND HIS NEW TV SHOW, "EXTRAORDINARY BIRDER."

>>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- CANDACE KING WEIR.

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COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

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THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

WELL, HEAT AND FIRE.

GREEKS ARE FACING LIFE-THREATENING ELEMENTS THIS WEEK AS TEMPERATURES SOAR WITH NO RELIEF IN SIGHT.

A SUMMER CAMP EVACUATED CHILDREN NEAR A WILDFIRE TODAY, AND TAKE A LOOK AT THIS DRAMATIC VIDEO OF HORSES BEING RUSHED TO SAFETY AS THE BLAZE NEAR ATHENS STARTED TO BURN THEIR STABLES.

THIS AFTER ACROPOLIS WAS TEMPORARILY SHUT FRIDAY TO PROTECT TOURISTS FROM SWELTERING HEAT.

AND THIS ISN'T ONLY HAPPENING IN GREECE.

ACROSS THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE, CHINA RECORDED ITS HOTTEST TEMPERATURE EVER, A WHOPPING 126 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT.

GOOD TIMING TOO.

U.S.

CLIMATE ENVOY JOHN KERRY IS IN BEIJING FOR TALKS.

IT IS ONE OF THE HOTTEST SUMMERS EVER RECORDED IN THE CHINESE CAPITAL.

HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, A HEAT DOME IS SCORCHING MUCH OF THE COUNTRY, AND SMOKE FROM THE CANADIAN WILDFIRES IS SPREADING OVER THE NORTHEAST.

AS THE DIRECTOR GENERAL OF THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION SAYS, THE CLIMATE CRISIS IS NOT A WARNING.

IT IS HAPPENING.

OLGA KEFALOGIANNI IS GREECE'S TOURISM MINISTER.

SHE IS THE ONE MAKING THE TOUGH CALLS ON HOW TO PROTECT TOURISTS AND KEEP THEM STILL VISITING HER COUNTRY.

AND FRANCESCA RACIOPPI IS THE HEAD OF THE W.H.O.

'S EUROPEAN CENTER FOR ENVIRONMENT AND HEALTH.

THEY JOINED ME EARLIER TO DISCUSS HOW THEY'RE ADAPTING TO THE HEAT.

OLGA, LET'S START WITH YOU AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING TAKE PLACE NOW IN GREECE.

THE ACROPOLIS WAS CLOSED FOR A FEW HOURS ON FRIDAY TO PROTECT TOURISTS THERE.

WE KNOW THAT THERE WERE SOME TOURISTS THAT WERE TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE OF HEAT-RELATED ISSUES AND SOME FIRST RESPONDERS THERE WERE ON-SITE TO HAND OUT THOUSANDS OF WATER BOTTLES.

GIVE US THE CURRENT PICTURE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW RELATED TO HEAT SPECIFICALLY.

>> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO SEE THE BROADER PICTURE, WHICH, OF COURSE, IS CLIMATE CHANGE.

THIS IS WHY GREECE IS ADAPTING TO THE CLIMATE CRISIS, BOTH IN TERMS OF HAVING A SHORT-TERM STRATEGY AND ALSO A LONG-TERM STRATEGY.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO THE CURRENT HEAT WAVE, OF COURSE WE HAVE A SHORT-TERM STRATEGY, WHICH INCLUDES INFORMATION, UPDATES THROUGH OUR COMMUNICATION CHANNELS, AND PRECAUTIONARY PROTECTION MEASURES.

SUCH A MEASURE WAS UNFORTUNATELY THAT WE HAD TO CLOSE DOWN FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS OUR CULTURAL SITES BECAUSE, OF COURSE, IT WOULD NOT BE SAFE FOR OUR VISITORS TO VISIT THESE SITES THROUGHOUT THE HEAT WAVE CRISIS.

FIRST OF ALL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO ADAPT.

I THINK THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, BEING ABLE TO ADAPT AND ADJUST YOUR MEASURES.

WE REALLY WANT EVERYONE TO FEEL SAFE IN OUR COUNTRY, AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE REASONS WHY GREECE IS ALWAYS A VERY ATTRACTIVE DESTINATION IS BECAUSE PEOPLE FEEL VERY SAFE EVERYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY.

THIS IS WHY EVEN IN THESE EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS, WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO PROVIDE SAFETY FOR ALL OUR VISITORS.

>> YEAH, TRAVEL AND TOURISM MAKES UP ROUGHLY 15% OF THE COUNTRY'S GDP AND HAS A HUGE IMPACT ON THE ECONOMY OVERALL WITH REGARDS TO JOBS AND HIRING.

SO YOU CAN SEE THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF CONCERNS FOR PEOPLE IN YOUR COUNTRY WHEN YOU SEE THESE RECORD NUMBERS.

AND I KNOW THAT YOU, FOR THE FIRST TIME, HAVE DESIGNATED -- YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS -- A CLIMATE ENVOY FOR THESE PARTICULAR ISSUES.

TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS ENVOY WILL BE DOING SPECIFICALLY.

>> WELL, AS I SAID BEFORE, OUR TOURISM GROWTH WILL NOW HIGHLY DEPEND ON HOW SUSTAINABILITY WILL BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE TOURIST DEVELOPMENT.

SO, OF COURSE, THERE ARE CONCERNS, AND I GUESS THE CLIMATE CRISIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS A HORIZONTAL POLICY THAT ALL MINISTRIES SHOULD FOLLOW.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO HAVE A SPECIAL ENVOY IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO SOMETIMES CONTROL AND SOMETIMES MAKE THE NECESSARY SUGGESTIONS TO ALL THE MINISTRIES FOR THE POLICIES THAT EACH ONE OF US HAS TO INCORPORATE IN OUR OWN STRATEGIES.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT THAT IT IS A HORIZONTAL POLICY.

AS MINISTRY OF TOURISM, OF COURSE, AS YOU SAID BEFORE, IT'S NOT JUST A DIRECT EFFECT THAT TOURISM HAS TO THE GDP, BUT IT'S ALSO THE INDIRECT EFFECT THAT IT HAS.

SO OVERALL IT'S MORE THAN 20% OF GREECE'S GDP.

SO WE DEFINITELY HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A MODEL OF TOURISM THAT IS SUSTAINABLE IN THE FUTURE AND THAT WE DO THE NECESSARY ADAPTATIONS AND ADOPT THE NECESSARY POLICIES IN ORDER FOR THE TOURISM OFFERING TO BE ALWAYS ATTRACTIVE AND ALSO TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL VERY SAFE WHEN THEY'RE TRAVELING TO GREECE.

>> FRANCESCA, OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT JUST GREECE THAT'S BEING AFFECTED BY THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

16 ITALIAN CITIES RIGHT NOW ARE UNDER RED ALERT OVER THE SEARING HEAT.

THE CURRENT RECORD TEMPERATURE SET IN EUROPE WAS AT 48.4 DEGREES.

THAT WAS REACHED IN SICILY IN 2021.

MOST EXPERTS EXPECT THAT RECORD TO BE BROKEN THIS WEEK.

HOW IS ITALY AND OTHER COUNTRIES FOR THAT MATTER IN EUROPE PREPARED FOR THESE RECORD TEMPERATURES THAT WE'RE SEEING NOW AND COULD SEE BROKEN IN THE DAYS AND WEEKS TO COME?

>> WELL, THESE ARE HEAT WAVES THAT WE ARE SEEING.

THEY ARE NOTHING NEW, I HAVE TO SAY.

ALREADY IN 2003, EUROPE WAS EXPERIENCING A VERY SEVERE HEAT WAVE THAT LASTED AND, YOU KNOW, KILLED LIKE 70,000 PEOPLE AT THAT TIME.

LAST SUMMER WAS THE HOTTEST SUMMER ON RECORD, AND VERY RECENTLY WE HAVE SEEN THE PUBLICATIONS OF ESTIMATES.

FROM LAST SUMMER, WE ESTIMATE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS BEEN A VERY RECENT PUBLICATION SHOWING THAT 60,000 PEOPLE DIED LAST YEAR BETWEEN MAY AND SEPTEMBER IN 35 EUROPEAN COUNTRIES BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS LAST YEAR THE HOTTEST SUMMER ON RECORD.

SO THIS ONE WE DON'T KNOW YET WHETHER IT WILL BE THE ONE BREAKING YET ANOTHER RECORD.

BUT CERTAINLY THESE COUNTRIES, THEY ARE IN A WAY FAMILIAR WITH THESE KIND OF DANGERS.

AND THERE IS A LOT THAT WE CAN DO TO PREVENT AND MITIGATE AND ADAPT TO THESE ISSUES.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING AND WE ARE BROADCASTING PUBLIC HEALTH ADVISORIES TO KEEP THOSE SAFE.

HEAT IS VERY DANGEROUS, BUT HEAT CAN BE -- THE EFFECTS ON HEALTH OF HEAT WAVES CAN BE PREVENTED BY ADOPTING SOME VERY EFFECTIVE MEASURES.

SO WE HAVE THREE KEY MESSAGES FROM OUR CAMPAIGN, WHICH ARE KEEP AWAY FROM THE HEAT.

KEEP YOUR HOME COOL.

AND KEEP HYDRATED.

AND THESE ARE THREE MEASURES THAT CAN SAVE LIFE.

AND THESE COUNTRIES, THEY ARE -- THEY HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING DIFFERENT SYSTEMS TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC HEALTH.

MANY OF THESE COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING ACTION PLANS TO PREPARE THE HEALTH SYSTEMS TO COPE WITH THESE PROBLEMS.

SO THEY MAKE THE HEALTH SYSTEM PREPARED TO WITHSTAND, TO REACT, AND TO PROTECT THOSE THAT ARE MOST VULNERABLE.

LET'S REMEMBER HEAT IS PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS FOR THE ELDERLY.

IT IS DANGEROUS FOR PREGNANT WOMEN, FOR CHILDREN, SMALL CHILDREN, FOR WORKERS WHO ARE EXPOSED, WHO WORK OUTDOORS LIKE PEOPLE WORKING IN THE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION, THOSE WHO ARE IN THE RESCUE SYSTEMS LIKE FIREFIGHTERS, AND PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN DISADVANTAGED CONDITIONS.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE PROTECT OURSELF AND WE CHECK UP ON THOSE THAT WE KNOW ARE UNDER VULNERABLE CONDITIONS, .

IT IS IMPORTANT AS INDIVIDUALS TO CHECK UP ON THEM.

THESE ARE WAYS TO PROTECT OURSELF AND OUR COMMUNITIES FROM THE EXTREME EFFECTS OF HEAT.

>> AND WE DO KNOW THAT HEAT WAVES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MOST WEATHER-RELATED DEATHS.

OLGA, IT'S NOT JUST SOME OF THESE TOP TOURIST SITES AND HISTORIC SITES THAT WE'RE SEEING HAVE IMPACTS ON YOUR TOURISM.

IT'S ALSO BEACHES, NOT JUST IN THE MEDITERRANEAN BUT IN THE UNITED STATES AND FLORIDA, BEACHES AND THE WATER TEMPERATURE HAS REACHED RECORD LEVELS AS WELL.

TALK ABOUT THE CONCERN THAT YOU HAVE THERE NOT ONLY FOR THE TOURISM INDUSTRY BUT ALSO JUST FOR MAMMAL, MARINE, AND PLANT LIFE.

>> WELL, WE HAVE OUR SCIENTISTS REALLY MAKE THEIR OWN RESEARCH WHEN IT COMES TO THE SEA.

AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS THAT OVERALL, THE COASTS IN GREECE HAVE NOT BEEN AFFECTED AS MUCH AS IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

SO LET'S SAY THE SEA LEVEL RISE IS NOT AS INTENSE AS IN OTHER AREAS.

THIS DOES NOT, OF COURSE, MEAN THAT WE DON'T HAVE SPECIAL CONCERN ABOUT OUR BEACHES AND ABOUT OUR COASTAL AREA.

YOU KNOW THAT GREECE HAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST COASTLINES IN THE WORLD, AND THIS IS THE OVERALL STRATEGY THAT I WAS MENTIONING BEFORE, WHICH IS A PRIORITY FOR OUR PRIME MINISTER BOTH IN TERMS OF SUSTAINABILITY AND ALSO IN TERMS OF PROTECTION OF OUR CULTURAL SITES.

SO WE HAVE A SPECIAL COMMITTEE IN THE MINISTRY OF CULTURE, WHICH IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF THE CLIMATE CRISIS ON OUR CULTURAL HERITAGE, ON OUR CULTURAL SITES, AND WE HAVE A STRATEGY FOR PROTECTION WITH A TIMETABLE UP TO 2050.

BUT, OF COURSE, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT'S IMPORTANT TO ALSO BE ABLE TO ADJUST THE STRATEGY BECAUSE YOU SEE THAT THE CHALLENGES ARE HERE, AND WE GET TO FACE NEW CHALLENGES ALL THE TIME.

SO WE REALLY NEED TO BE ABLE TO ADAPT AND TO MAKE THE NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS.

>> FRANCESCA, WHAT SHOULD WE MAKE OF THE FACT THAT THIS ISN'T HAPPENING JUST IN EUROPE RIGHT NOW, BUT WE'RE SEEING RECORD HEAT LEVELS IN THE UNITED STATES.

A THIRD OF THE COUNTRY IS UNDER HEAT ADVISORY HERE IN THE U.S. AS WELL, JUST BLANKETED UNDER A HEAT DOME FOR WEEKS.

MANY CITIES IN TRIPLE DIGITS NOW IN FAHRENHEIT MEASUREMENTS FOR WEEKS ON END.

WE'RE SEEING RECORD HEAT IN ASIA, IN CHINA, IN JAPAN.

IS THERE SOME PHENOMENON AMONG SCIENTISTS AS TO WHY WE'RE SEEING ALL OF THIS HAPPEN WITHIN THE SAME MATTER OF WEEKS?

>> WELL, AS WE KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN LEARNING FROM SCIENTISTS CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT FICTIONAL.

CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING, AND IT BEARS THE RISK OF THREATENING OUR LIFE BASICALLY.

AND THIS IS NOT A PHENOMENON THAT IS RESTRICTED TO ONE SINGLE REGION OF THE WORLD.

IT IS A GLOBAL PHENOMENON.

EUROPE, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS BEEN RECORDED BY THE WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION AS A PART OF THE WORLD THAT IS HEATING FASTER THAN OTHER PARTS OF THE GLOBE.

SO THESE KIND OF ISSUES, THERE IS NO WAY THAT ANY SINGLE COUNTRY WILL BE ABLE TO SOLVE THEM BY THEMSELVES.

SO WHAT WE NEED IS A GLOBAL EFFORT TO ADDRESS THESE.

WHAT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US IS THAT THIS YEAR FOR THE FIRST TIME, AT THE MEETING OF THE PARTY OF THE UNITED NATION CONVENTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE WILL DEDICATE ONE DAY TO HEALTH.

IT IS UNPRECEDENTED.

IT WILL BE IN DECEMBER OF THIS YEAR, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, HEALTH WILL FEATURE VERY PROMINENTLY ON THE AGENDA.

AS THE MINISTER WAS SAYING BEFORE, CLIMATE CHANGE IS A CROSS-SECTOR PROBLEM, AND IT AFFECTS ALL SECTORS INCLUDE HEALTH AND HEALTH SYSTEMS.

SO WHAT WE NEED IS TO BRING HEALTH MORE TO THE CLIMATE DEBATE, BUT ALSO WE NEED TO BRING MORE CLIMATE TO THE HEALTH SYSTEMS.

SO HAVING THE HEALTH SYSTEMS BETTER PREPARED AND MORE ADAPTED.

>> FRANCESCA, JUST IN THE LIMITED TIME WE HAVE LEFT, WE TALK ABOUT THE IMMEDIATE IMPACT FROM THE HEAT WAVES, AND THAT IS HEATSTROKE AND DEHYDRATION.

BUT LONGER TERM, I KNOW THERE'S ALSO A CONCERN ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH, ABOUT HEART HEALTH, AND ALSO ABOUT THE SPREAD OF DISEASE GIVEN NOT ONLY THE HEAT WAVES THAT WE'RE SEEING BUT THE RECORD RAINFALL COUPLED WITH THAT HEAT.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

THE RANGE OF DISEASES AND THE CONDITIONS BROUGHT ABOUT BY CLIMATE CHANGE IS VERY BROAD.

IF YOU THINK OF VECTOR-BORNE DISEASES, WE SEE NOW SOME OF THEM LIKE SOME OF THE TICK-BORNE, FOR EXAMPLE, DISEASES APPEARING IN PARTS OF THE WORLD WHERE THEY WERE NOT PRESENT BEFORE BECAUSE THE NATURAL CONDITIONS, THE HABITAT AND THE CLIMATIC REGIONS BECOME MORE FAVORABLE FOR INSECTS TO ESTABLISH THEMSELVES IN PLACES WHERE BEFORE THEY WERE NOT PRESENT.

SO IT IS A PART OF A GLOBAL CRISIS WHICH BRINGS TOGETHER CLIMATE CHANGE, ALSO POLLUTION.

JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, IN BUDAPEST, THE 50 STATES OF THE REGION CAME TOGETHER AND THEY AGREED UPON AN UNPRECEDENTED DECLARATION, POLITICAL DECLARATION, WHICH IS THE BUDAPEST DECLARATION.

AND THEY ARE GOING TO WORK TOGETHER AND TO WORK IN PARTNERSHIPS TO ADDRESS EXACTLY THESE KIND OF ISSUES BECAUSE AS THE MINISTER WAS SAYING BEFORE, WE NEED TO BE BETTER ADAPTED.

WE ALSO NEED TO MITIGATE, AND NOTHING CAN BE DONE IN ISOLATION BY EACH OTHER.

>> THAT IS VERY HELPFUL TO HEAR, THAT THIS IS ALL REALLY INTERCONNECTED.

SO THE FACT THAT THESE SILOS WILL BE BROKEN, IT IS ENCOURAGING.

LET ME ASK YOU, OLGA, THE FINAL QUESTION.

WE'RE ONLY HALFWAY THROUGH THE SUMMER SEASON.

CAN TOURISTS AND CAN LOCALS THERE ANTICIPATE ANY MORE TOURIST SITES POTENTIALLY CLOSED?

WHAT IS YOUR PLAN OF ACTION IF THESE RECORD NUMBERS CONTINUE TO CLIMB?

>> WELL, AS I SAID BEFORE, WE HAVE OUR SHORT-TERM STRATEGY, WHICH ACTUALLY INCLUDES ADAPTING OUR MEASURES IN TERMS OF FACING THE CHALLENGES.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LET ME SAY SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE ONE OF THE CHALLENGES FOR GREEK TOURISM IS EXTENDING THE TOURIST SEASON, SO NOT JUST HAVING VISITOR AS ROUND FOR THE SUMMER MONTHS AND ALSO VISITING THE CULTURAL SITES, BUT ALSO HAVING VISITORS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR BECAUSE GREECE HAS SO MUCH NATURAL BEAUTY.

WE HAVE MOUNTAINS.

WE HAVE ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF TOURISM, AGRO TOURISM, WINE TOURISM, SPECIAL TYPES OF TOURISM.

AND I GUESS THE CULTURAL SITES ARE MUCH BETTER ENJOYED WHEN THE WEATHER IS MORE MODERATE.

SO I THINK WITHIN ALSO BEING MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF ACHIEVING THE GOAL OF EXTENDING THE TOURIST SEASON BECAUSE GREECE IS ALWAYS ATTRACTIVE, AND I THINK THAT ONE SHOULD TRY TO VISIT GREECE IN AUTUMN, IN SPRING, AND EVEN WINTER.

>> WELL, YOU'VE JUST GIVEN AWAY MY SECRET TO TRAVEL, AND THAT IS TRAVELING OFF-SEASON.

SO IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, THOUGH, I DO APPRECIATE THAT, AND I THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL PROBABLY BE PAYING ATTENTION TO IN THIS NEW ERA, I GUESS OUR NEW NORMAL AS WE CALL IT.

CHANGING CLIMATE MEANS CHANGING LIVES AND LIFESTYLE AND TRAVEL AS WELL.

OLGA KEFALOGIANNI AND FRANCESCA RACIOPPI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>>> WELL, WE TURN NOW TO HOLLYWOOD AND THE ACTORS/WRITERS STRIKE THAT'S BROUGHT PRODUCTION TO A STANDSTILL.

A RARE SHOW OF FORCE LIKE THIS HASN'T BEEN SEEN TOGETHER ON STRIKE SINCE 1960.

BACK WHEN RONALD REAGAN WAS PRESIDENT OF THE SCREEN ACTORS GUILD.

AT ISSUE IS MONEY, OF COURSE, AND HOW TO ADAPT THE PAYMENT STRUCTURE FOR THE STREAMING ERA.

BUT THE TWO SIDES APPEAR AWFULLY FAR APART.

DISNEY CEO BOB IGER SAYS THE EXPECTATIONS OF WRITERS AND ACTORS ARE, QUOTE, JUST NOT REALISTIC.

WHILE THOSE ON STRIKE SAY THEY'RE JUST ASKING FOR THEIR FAIR SHARE.

HERE NOW TO DISCUSS IS A WRITER FOR THE ACCLAIMED SHOW "THE BEAR," ALEX O'KEEFE, AND SHAAN SHARMA, AN ACTOR ON "THE CHOSEN."

ALEX, LET'S START THERE AND GET YOU TO RESPOND TO WHAT DISNEY CEO BOB IGER SAID AT A CONFERENCE JUST A FEW DAYS AGO.

LET'S PLAY IT FOR OUR VIEWERS, AND THEN WE'LL GET YOU TO RESPOND AFTER.

>> THERE'S A LEVEL OF EXPECTATION THAT THEY HAVE THAT IS JUST NOT REALISTIC, AND THEY ARE ADDING TO A SET OF CHALLENGES THAT THIS BUSINESS IS ALREADY FACING THAT IS QUITE FRANKLY VERY DISRUPTIVE.

>> SO THEY'RE NOT BEING REALISTIC?

>> NO, THEY'RE NOT.

>> OKAY.

SO, ALEX, THERE'S NO DENYING THAT THERE ARE CHALLENGES THAT THE INDUSTRY IS FACING RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE COMING OUT OF COVID.

WE'RE SWITCHING -- A LOT OF COMPANIES ARE DEALING WITH DECLINING LINEAR AND FOCUSED ON STREAMING.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO WHAT HE JUST SAID, AND WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU DEMANDING?

>> YEAH, IT'S VERY FUNNY THAT THIS MULTI-MILLIONAIRE CEO SAYS THAT WE'RE NOT BEING REALISTIC.

YOU PAN OUT.

THERE'S A BEAUTIFUL SUN VALLEY BACKGROUND THERE.

AND IF YOU PAN OUT EVEN MORE, YOU'D SEE A FLEET OF PRIVATE JETS.

IT'S FUNNY WHO GETS TO IMAGINE IN THIS WORLD, WHO GETS TO BE UNREALISTIC BECAUSE WE'RE LIVING IN THE WILDEST IMAGINATIONS OF A FEW BILLIONAIRES WHO HAVE DESIGNED OUR ECONOMY EXCLUSIVELY FOR THEMSELVES.

AND INCREASINGLY THERE IS A 1%, AND THE REST OF US ARE THE 99%.

AND THAT IS WHY YOU'RE SEEING NOT JUST THE WRITERS GO ON STRIKE, NOT JUST THE ACTORS GO ON STRIKE.

UPS IS GEARING TO GO ON STRIKE.

WORKERS ACROSS LOS ANGELES ARE GOING ON STRIKE BECAUSE THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING ACROSS EVERY PART OF THEIR MACHINE, AND THESE MEDIA COMPANIES, YOU KNOW, ABOUT SIX CORPORATIONS CONTROL 90% OF THE MEDIA, I BELIEVE.

THEY CONTROL SO MUCH OF THE ECONOMY, AND THEY HAVE RIGGED IT FOR THEIR PROFIT EXCLUSIVELY.

AND THEIR NEXT STEP IS TO REPLACE HUMAN BEINGS WITH MACHINES, REPLACE DRIVERS WITH MACHINES, REPLACE ACTORS WITH MACHINES, REPLACE US ALL WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

SO THIS STRIKE IS AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE FIGHT AGAINST A.I., TO ACTUALLY REGULATE A.I., WHICH MANY SCIENTISTS AND LEADING A.I.

EXPERTS HAVE SAID HAS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO HUMANITY.

WE DON'T NEED MORE EXISTENTIAL THREATS.

WE HAVE ENOUGH, ALL RIGHT?

SO LET'S JUST FOCUS ON ACTUALLY PAYING WORKERS WHAT THEY DESERVE.

THE WORKERS WHO KEPT US ALIVE THROUGH THE PANDEMIC, THE WRITERS AND THE ACTORS WHO KEPT US ENTERTAINED IN OUR DARKEST MOMENTS.

LET'S PAY THEM WHAT THEY DESERVE.

I WROTE FOR A VERY BIG SHOW CALLED "THE BEAR."

I MADE VERY LITTLE MONEY.

I SAW NO PROFITS IN IT.

I LIVED BELOW THE POVERTY LINE WORKING ON THIS SHOW THAT HAS MADE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR F/X AND DISNEY AT LARGE.

THIS IS NOT HOW THE WORLD HAS TO BE.

THERE IS ENOUGH WEALTH IN THIS INDUSTRY ALONE FOR US ALL TO HAVE SUCCESS.

AND FOR 100 YEARS IN THIS ECONOMY, IN THIS INDUSTRY, THAT'S HOW IT WORKED.

IT WAS A COMMON EXPECTATION.

THIS WOULD BE A GOOD UNION MIDDLE CLASS CAREER, NOT FOR THE BIG ACTORS, BUT FOR EVERYONE WHO MAKES THE MACHINE RUN.

AND NOW WE ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO BE IN THE MIDDLE CLASS.

WE ARE TOLD JUST TO BE GRATEFUL TO BE THERE.

NO.

WE'RE MAD AS HELL.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.

WE ARE GOING TO STAND UP FOR OURSELVES, AND THESE BILLIONAIRES, THEY'RE ABOUT TO GET A REALITY CHECK BECAUSE WORKERS HAVE ALL THE POWER.

WE MAKE THIS ECONOMY RUN, AND WE WILL SHUT IT DOWN UNTIL WE GET OUR FAIR SHARE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE REALITY CHECK HERE BECAUSE LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS ITSELF, IT DOES APPEAR THAT THE SCREENWRITERS GUILD IN CITING A SURVEY AND DATA GOING BACK A FEW YEARS AGO, THAT THE WRITER/PRODUCER WEEKLY PAY HAS DROPPED 4%, OR 23% ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION SINCE 2013.

ACTORS MADE A MEDIAN SALARY OF $46,960 IN 2021.

THE BEST PAY, 25%, MADE $60,000 THAT YEAR.

WHILE THE LOWEST PAY, 25%, MADE $30,000.

SHAAN, THE IMPACT THAT THIS HAS HAD ON YOUR CAREER AND WHERE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE NOT EARNING TOM CRUISE HFL LEVEL MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SALARY.

HOW HAS YOUR LIFE CHANGED AS AN ACTOR IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO AFFORD EVEN YOUR BASIC BILLS?

>> WELL, I'M VERY FORTUNATE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I STRUCK THE LOTTERY WITH THE KIND OF SHOW THAT I'M ON RIGHT NOW THAT I GET TO TELL.

BUT THIS IS 20 YEARS INTO A PROFESSIONAL CAREER WHERE I WAS MAKING A LIVING OFF OF THE, YOU KNOW, CO-STARRING, GUEST STAR, AND SMALLER ROLES THAT MOST OF US DO FOR AN ENTIRE CAREER.

NOT EVERYBODY GETS TO BE A SERIES PERFORMER OR A LEAD IN FILMS, AND CERTAINLY NOT AT THE STAR LEVEL WHERE YOU GET TO MAKE A REALLY LARGE AND WEALTHY LIVING.

SO 87% OF OUR MEMBERS DO NOT MAKE MORE THAN $26,000 A YEAR.

ONLY 12.7% OF OUR MEMBERSHIP QUALIFIES FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.

THAT SHOULD TELL YOU RIGHT NOW THAT WHEN YOU'RE WATCHING A SHOW OR A MOVIE, LOOK AT THE PERSON WHO'S THE STAR, AND LOOK AT EVERYBODY ELSE AROUND THEM, INCLUDING ALL THE VOICES YOU HEAR.

THOSE ARE OUR WORKING-CLASS MEMBERS WORKING FOR THE BARE MINIMUM, WHICH WE CALL SCALE.

SO IF YOU ADJUST SCALE FOR INFLATION, WHAT OUR EMPLOYERS ARE TRYING TO DO RIGHT NOW IN OUR NEGOTIATION IS LOCK US INTO RATES THAT WILL MEAN WE WILL BE EARNING LESS IN 2026 THAN WE EARNED ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION IN 2020.

AND THAT'S JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE THAT'S JUST OUR BASE PAY.

BUT THE COSTS OF LIVING HAVE GONE UP EVERYWHERE.

SO WE'RE BEING REALLY SQUEEZED OUT.

PART OF THIS IS BECAUSE OUR BUSINESS MODEL HAS COMPLETELY CHANGED.

WE USED TO BE ON TELEVISION WHERE WE GET PAID EVERY TIME SOMETHING RUNS.

THE MORE SUCCESSFUL THE SHOW, THE MORE THEY COULD AFFORD TO PAY THE PERFORMERS.

WE HAD A SHARE IN THE SUCCESS OF THOSE PROJECTS.

THEN COMPANIES LIKE NETFLIX, THEY CAME IN WITH AN ENTIRELY NEW BUSINESS MODEL WHERE THEY USE PREDATORY PRICING TO BE ABLE TO GET SUBSCRIBERS, AND THEY FORCED WALL STREET INTO EXAMINING THEIR BUSINESS MODEL AND ALL THE OTHER COMPANIES AND NETWORKS TRIED TO EMULATE THEIR BUSINESS MODEL ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CUT IN THE PEOPLE YOU DEPEND ON IN THE SHARE OF THE REVENUE THAT IS BEING GENERATED, OR YOU ESSENTIALLY STARVE OUT THE PEOPLE THAT YOU DEPEND ON THE MOST FOR THE VALUE OF THAT ENTERTAINMENT.

>> YEAH.

ALEX, CAN YOU TALK MORE ABOUT HOW THE RESIDUAL MODEL OF PAYMENT HAS CHANGED SO DRAMATICALLY IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME?

>> YEAH.

THE RESIDUAL MODEL WAS WON BY THE LAST TIME WRITERS AND ACTORS WENT ON STRIKE TOGETHER IN 1960.

WHAT IT SAYS IS IF YOU MAKE SOMETHING THAT'S VERY POPULAR, THAT HAS A LOT OF SUCCESS, YOU GET A SHARE IN THE SUCCESS.

YOU GET A SHARE IN THE PROFIT.

IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

WITH STREAMING, THEY HAVE MADE IT SO ACTORS, WRITERS, WERE GETTING LESS THAN A DOLLAR.

WE'RE GETTING CENTS ON THE DOLLAR RESIDUALS.

I'M TALKING ABOUT BIG SHOWS.

EVEN "ABBOTT ELEMENTARY" OR "THE BEAR."

YOU'RE GETTING NO MONEY FROM THE SUCCESS.

AND WHAT THE STUDIOS CLAIM, WE'RE NOT MAKING ANY MONEY.

WE'RE JUST DOING THIS FOR THE LOVE.

I REALLY DOUBT THAT.

I REALLY DOUBT THAT THESE BILLIONAIRES ARE DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF THE CRAFT BECAUSE IF YOU WORK WITH THEM, YOU KNOW THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE ART.

THEY CARE ABOUT THE MONEY.

BUT THEY'RE STEALING ALL THE PROFITS.

THEY'RE NOT SHARING IT.

THEY HAVE BROKEN THE CONTRACT.

THEY HAVE BROKEN THE CODE BETWEEN WORKER AND EMPLOYER, AND THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE FORCED THIS STRIKE.

AND THEY HAVE REFUSED TO NEGOTIATE WITH US, WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE BURNING DOWN HOLLYWOOD.

AND IT'S UP TO THE WORKERS OF HOLLYWOOD TO BUILD A BETTER HOLLYWOOD.

LET ME TELL YOU THE END RESULT, THE CONSEQUENCES OF NOT HAVING THESE RESIDUALS.

THAT WHEN I WON THE WGA AWARD, BEST OUTSTANDING COMEDY FOR "THE BEAR," I WENT TO THAT AWARD SHOW WITH A NEGATIVE BANK ACCOUNT, A BOW TIE I BOUGHT ON CREDIT, A SUIT THAT I HAD TO ASK MY BROTHER AND MY MOM CAN YOU GIVE ME MONEY SO I CAN GET A SUIT?

I WAS ABSOLUTELY BROKE.

YEAH, I GOT THE GILDED AWARD.

I WALKED THE RED CARPET.

BUT ALL THAT GLITTERS IS NOT GOLD.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T DO THIS TO BE RICH, AND I DON'T DO THIS TO BE FAMOUS.

I COME FROM POVERTY.

I JUST WANT A MIDDLE CLASS LIFESTYLE.

I JUST WANT TO NOT WORRY ABOUT BILLS.

I DON'T WANT TO EAT RAMEN WHEN I'M WORKING ON ONE OF THE BIGGEST SHOWS IN AMERICA.

I THINK THAT IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS.

AND IF I CAN'T AT LEAST MAKE A MIDDLE CLASS INCOME DOING THIS, THERE'S NO CHANCE FOR YOUNG BLACK PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE OF COLOR, YOUNG PEOPLE IN GENERAL.

IT'S HOPELESS UNLESS WE STAND UP.

RIGHT NOW MY GENERATION IS BEING OFFERED NOTHING, BEING OFFERED NOTHING, AND REALLY BEING TOLD, YOU ARE GOING TO BE REPLACED BY MACHINES IF YOU ACT UP.

WELL, THIS IS NOW OR NEVER.

THIS IS OUR SHOT TO ACTUALLY SHOW THE VISION OF WHAT THIS GENERATION CAN BUILD, THE ECONOMY THIS CAN BUILD, AN ECONOMY THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE, A HOLLYWOOD THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE.

NO MORE ABUSE.

NO MORE EXPLOITATION.

NO MORE MISERY.

THIS SHOULD BE THE DREAM JOB.

THEY CALL THIS PLACE THE DREAM FACTORY.

BUT IF YOU ACTUALLY WORK ON THE FACTORY FLOOR, YOU SEE HOW MUCH EXPLOITATION AND HOW MUCH THEY GRIND THESE WORKERS DOWN TO DUST, AND IT'S NOT JUST WRITERS OR ACTORS.

IT'S IATSE.

IT'S TEAMSTERS.

IT'S THE TRUCK DRIVERS WHO DRIVE THE CAMERAS.

IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO SET UP THE LIGHTS.

EVERYONE IS BEING GROUND TO DUST RIGHT NOW ACROSS THE ENTIRE ECONOMY.

YOU PUSH PEOPLE TO THEIR LIMIT, THEY PUSH BACK.

>> ALEX, I HEARD YOU IN ANOTHER INTERVIEW JOKINGLY SAY YOU'VE BECOME FAMOUS FOR BEING BROKE.

I THINK THIS IS A REALLY EYE-OPENING EXPERIENCE FOR NOT ONLY THE INDUSTRY BUT FOR CONSUMERS WHO MAY, AS YOU SAID, ASSUME THAT ALL THAT GLITTERS IS GOLD IN HOLLYWOOD AND THAT EVERYONE IS RICH AND MAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

FOR YOUR FIRST SEASON ON "THE BEAR," YOU SAID YOU EARNED $43,000, OR AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE OFFERED.

YOU THOUGHT THAT WAS HUGE BUCKS AT THE TIME UNTIL YOU REALIZED EXACTLY HOW THAT MONEY NEEDED TO BE DIVVIED UP AND WHAT YOU WOULD BE LEFT WITH.

CAN YOU ALSO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE WRITING CIRCUMSTANCES WERE FOR YOU AS WELL BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T IN SOME POSH, SWANK ROOM WITH FOOD CATERED IN FOR YOU ALONG WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES AS MANY WOULD IMAGINE.

YOU WERE SITTING AT HOME WITH A SPACE HEATER IN THE MIDST OF THE PANDEMIC, WRITING, AND PERHAPS GETTING SOME CREATIVE IDEAS FROM THAT.

>> YES.

>> BUT WRITING IT IN A MUCH LESS SEXY FASHION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, I'M A WORKING-CLASS GUY.

I'M JUST SOME GUY TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

AND I'M VERY GRATEFUL "THE BEAR" GAVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO WRITE ABOUT THE WORKING CLASS.

THAT'S BEEN MY DREAM FOR SO LONG.

NOW, I, COMING FROM THE OUTSIDE IN, I ASSUMED THAT YOU GET THE PLANE TICKET.

YOU GO OUT, YOU KNOW.

THE RED CARPET'S ROLLED OUT.

NO, NOT WHATSOEVER, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE YOUNG, IF YOU'RE A WRITER OF COLOR.

YOU GET EXPLOITED, YOU KNOW, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE WHO WORKED ON THIS SHOW.

IT HAS TO DO WITH THE STUDIOS.

THE FACT IS THE STUDIO DIDN'T BELIEVE IN A SHOW ABOUT THE WORKING CLASS.

THEY DIDN'T THINK IT WAS GOING TO HAVE APPEAL.

THEY DIDN'T GIVE US ANY MONEY FOR THE FIRST SEASON.

THAT'S WHY IT TAKES PLACE BASICALLY IN ONE LOCATION.

THEY SAY, YOU HAVE THIS YOUNG WRITER.

WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY THEM MUCH, DIVERSITY WAIVER, BASICALLY FREE LABOR, AND WE DON'T HAVE TO FLY THEM IN.

SO I ZOOMED FROM MY APARTMENT.

AGAIN, IT WAS A SURREAL OPPORTUNITY, AND I AM EXTREMELY ETERNALLY GRATEFUL FOR IT.

BUT THE FACT IS BECAUSE OF THAT, I DIDN'T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.

I WAS NOT YET IN THE UNION.

I WAS ON MEDICAID.

I HAD ASTHMA.

I WAS FREEZING IN MY APARTMENT BECAUSE MY RADIATOR WAS OUT.

MY LANDLORD DIED OF COVID-19.

I HAD NO WAY TO REPAIR MY -- I WOULD PLUG IN THE SPACE HEATER.

SOMETIMES ALL THE POWER WOULD GO OUT.

EPISODE 8, I ACTUALLY HAD TO GO TO A PUBLIC LIBRARY AND WHISPER IDEAS VERY QUIETLY PITCH, AND THE LIBRARY WOULD LITERALLY SHUSH ME.

THAT IS NOT HOW HOLLYWOOD SHOULD WORK.

THAT IS NOT A PRODUCTIVE WORKPLACE.

IT IS AN ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS WAY TO STRUCTURE ANY KIND OF JOB IN AMERICA.

AND A LOT OF WORKERS HAVE IT FAR WORSE.

THE UPS WORKERS WHO ARE ABOUT TO GO ON STRIKE, THEY DON'T HAVE A.C.s IN THEIR CARS.

THERE WAS A WORKER LAST YEAR IN LOS ANGELES WHO DIED BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A.C.

THESE ARE REALLY SMALL THINGS, BUT FOR THE SCALE OF THE BUSINESS PEOPLE, THEY JUST SEE IT AS NUMBERS.

BUT ON THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, IT MEANS SUFFERING, AND IT MEANS MISERY FOR THE WORKER.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE UPS WORKERS, SOME 340,000 PREPARED TO GO ON STRIKE NEXT MONTH.

IT DOES APPEAR UNITED HAS REACHED A DEAL WITH PILOTS JUST NOW TO INCREASE THEIR PAY 40%.

BUT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT PERMEATES BEYOND HOLLYWOOD.

SHAAN, AS FAR AS AN ENDGAME IS CONCERNED, IT SEEMS LIKE BOTH SIDES HAVE REALLY DUG IN AND ARE WAITING THIS OUT.

I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FOR YOU FROM BARRY DILLER, A FORMER INDUSTRY EXECUTIVE WHO IS STILL WELL-CONNECTED OBVIOUSLY, AND WHAT HE SAID OVER THE WEEKEND ABOUT WHAT LED TO THIS SITUATION AND A POSSIBLE SOLUTION IN TERMS OF MEDIATING.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> THE RESULT OF WHICH IS THAT THERE WILL BE NO PROGRAMS, AND AT JUST THE TIME -- THE STRIKE IS SETTLED -- THAT YOU WANT TO GEAR BACK UP, THERE WON'T BE ENOUGH MONEY.

SO THIS ACTUALLY WILL HAVE DEVASTATING EFFECTS IF IT IS NOT SETTLED SOON.

AND THE PROBLEM WITH SETTLEMENT IN THIS CASE IS THERE'S NO TRUST BETWEEN THE PARTIES.

>> SO THERE'S NO TRUST, AND HE SAYS A COMPROMISE WOULD LOOK SOMETHING LIKE PERHAPS THE EXECUTIVES WOULD TAKE A 25% PAY CUT, AND THE TOP ACTORS AND EARNERS WOULD TAKE A 25% CUT.

SHAAN, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT PROPOSAL, AND IS HE RIGHT TO SAY THERE'S JUST NO TRUST ON EITHER SIDE AT THIS POINT?

>> WELL, YEAH.

HIS PROPOSED SOLUTION DOESN'T ADDRESS OUR NEEDS AT ALL.

IT'S NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH THE CEOs ARE MAKING AND THE BIGGEST STARS ARE MAKING.

THAT WOULDN'T COMPENSATE THE REST OF US APPROPRIATELY AND CUT US INTO THE REVENUE THAT WE GENERATE FOR THESE COMPANIES.

CERTAINLY THE CEOs ARE PAID WAY TOO MUCH, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE WALL STREET IS DRIVING THIS BEHAVIOR.

WALL STREET IS -- IT DROVE THIS RECKLESS SPENDING THESE COMPANIES HAVE BEEN DOING OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS WHERE THEY WERE ALL COMPETING FOR SUBSCRIBERS.

THEN THEY FOUND OUT THAT WASN'T GOING TO BE A SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL.

AND WE'RE ALSO GETTING CUT OUT OF THE RESIDUALS WE WOULD ORDINARILY LEARN.

WE'RE GETTING SMALLER SHOW ORDERS OF ONLY A FEW EPISODES.

NOT AS MANY SEASONS.

SO IT'S BEEN A VERY ABUSIVE AND GASLIGHTING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE STUDIOS AND THE NETWORKS BECAUSE IT'S LIKE THEY'RE BLAMING US FOR THEIR RISK-TAKING ON THE BACKS OF OUR WORK WHILE WE'RE NOT GETTING PAID THE WAY THAT OUR CONTRACT IS STRUCTURED ON THE BROADCAST TELEVISION AND CABLE MODELS.

SO WHAT WE NEED TO REBUILD TRUST IS WE NEED THE STUDIO EXECUTIVES TO NOT GO ON RECORD SAYING WE WANT TO HOLD OUT UNTIL THESE ARTISTS LOSE THEIR HOMES.

THEN THEY'LL BE SO DESPERATE THAT THEY'LL HAVE TO ACCEPT WHATEVER DEAL WE PUT BEFORE THEM SO WE CAN CONTINUE TO MAXIMIZE PROFITS AND PAY OUR EXECUTIVE BONUSES THAT ARE TIED TO STOCK PERFORMANCE.

IT'S LIKE A REPEAT OF THE ECONOMIC RECESSION IN 2008 WHERE ALL THESE PEOPLE GET RICH EXPLOITING THE WORKING CLASS AMERICANS, AND THEN THEY LEAVE US HOLDING THE BAG WITH A BAILOUT.

THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO DO THAT TO THIS CREATIVE COMMUNITY THAT IS ASKING FOR SUCH REASONABLE THINGS LIKE TO NOT BE REPLACED BY DIGITAL REPLICAS OF OUR NAME AND LIKENESS, WHICH IS HOW WE MAKE A LIVING.

THERE SHOULD BE ROOM FOR HUMAN PARTICIPATION.

WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE OUR ART FORM WEAPONIZED AGAINST US.

THE IDEA WE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR WORK, IT'S LIKE EVERY AMERICAN IS GRATEFUL TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES.

JUST BECAUSE MOST OF THE WORK WE DO IS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS THAT PEOPLE NEVER SEE, WHAT THEY DO SEE IS THE GLAMORIZED WHAT HAPPENS ON THE SCREEN.

BUT THIS IS WORKING CLASS PEOPLE WORKING REALLY HARD.

MOST OF THE WORK WE DO IS NEVER SEEN.

WE DON'T DESERVE TO HAVE OUR PASSION FOR THE ARTS WEAPONIZED AGAINST US IN THE BENEFIT OF THESE BILLIONAIRES AND STUDIO EXECUTIVES THAT MADE A BAD DECISION.

THAT IS THEIR FAULT.

THAT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO TREAT US FAIRLY.

>> THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS NOT COMING TO A RESOLUTION ANYTIME SOON, AND IT MAY ACTUALLY BE UP TO CONSUMERS AT SOME POINT WHEN THEY DON'T GET THEIR FAVORITE MOVIES OR THEIR FAVORITE TV SHOWS TO STREAM AND TO WATCH, TO REALLY SEE WHERE THE BLAME ULTIMATELY LIES AND HOW FAR THIS CAN GO.

WE CAN HAVE A WHOLE OTHER CONVERSATION ON A.I.

BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T JUST IMPACTING HOLLYWOOD AND YOUR INDUSTRY.

IT'S IMPACTING SO MANY INDUSTRIES ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> YOU CAN'T HAVE TRUST WITH PEOPLE THAT THREATEN YOUR LIVELIHOODS AND SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO COME AND MAKE A DEAL WITH YOU.

>> THEY CAN'T HAVE TRUST IN PEOPLE WHO SAY YOU'RE GOING TO BE HOMELESS IF YOU DON'T JUST COMPLETELY SURRENDER.

>> I KNOW, ALEX, YOU'RE GOING BACK ON THE PICKET LINE RIGHT NOW.

SADLY, THIS DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ANYTHING'S COMING TO AN END ANYTIME SOON, WHICH MEANS WE CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION.

PLEASE COME BACK IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS AND KEEP US POSTED AS TO WHERE THINGS STAND ON YOUR END.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, BOTH OF YOU TODAY, AND BEST OF LUCK WITH EVERYTHING.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>>> WELL, OUR NEXT GUEST BELIEVES WE SHOULD BE LOOKING TO THE SKIES TO LEARN SOME IMPORTANT LIFE LESSONS.

CHRISTIAN COOPER IS A PASSIONATE BIRDWATCHER BUT WENT VIRAL AFTER HE WAS ON THE RECEIVING END OF A RACIALLY CHARGED INCIDENT.

HE IS TURNING ONE OF HIS DARKEST DAYS INTO A PLATFORM FOR INCLUSION AND EDUCATION.

COOPER HOSTS A NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC TV SHOW ABOUT BIRDS WHICH DEBUTED LAST MONTH.

AND IN HIS NEW MEMOIR DETAILS ABOUT HOW A LIFE OF BIRDWATCHING PREPARED HIM FOR THAT NOW INFAMOUS INCIDENT.

HE IS JOINING MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS THE NATURAL WORLD.

>> THANKS, BIANNA.

CHRISTIAN COOPER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> BEFORE WE BEGIN TO YOUR BOOK AND YOUR NEW TV SHOW, WHICH ARE BOTH REALLY KIND OF JOYOUS EXPERIENCES, I HAVE TO SAY, I AM GOING TO START WITH THE PAIN BECAUSE YOU START WITH THE INCIDENT THAT WILL BE THE REASON THAT MANY PEOPLE KNOW YOUR NAME, WHICH IS THAT YOU WERE IN CENTRAL PARK IN NEW YORK CITY IN 2020 WHEN THIS WHITE WOMAN, YOU KNOW, FALSELY ACCUSED YOU OF THREATENING HER LIFE AS YOU WERE DOING WHAT YOU DO IN THE PARK, WHICH IS OBSERVING BIRDS.

THIS HAPPENED RIGHT AROUND THE TIME THAT GEORGE FLOYD WAS KILLED IN MINNEAPOLIS.

SO, YOU KNOW -- >> SAME DAY.

>> SAME DAY.

LIKE LITERALLY HOURS BEFORE.

THIS EPISODE JUST KIND OF TOOK ON A LIFE OF ITS OWN.

I JUST WONDER WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT.

>> IT WAS DISORIENTING FOR THE FIRST COUPLE OF DAYS.

I JUST WANTED TO CRAWL UNDER A ROCK AND WAIT FOR IT ALL TO BLOW OVER UNTIL I COULD GET MY LIFE BACK.

AND EVENTUALLY I REALIZED THAT WOULD BE A MISTAKE, THAT FOR BETTER OR WORSE, THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY HERE TO ARTICULATE CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT WHERE WE STAND AS A COUNTRY AND TO AT LEAST GIVE A CERTAIN PERSPECTIVE THAT MAYBE PEOPLE WEREN'T AWARE OF, PARTICULARLY WHITE PEOPLE.

I THINK MOST OF US BLACK PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF IT.

BUT I THINK A LOT OF WHITE PEOPLE WEREN'T AWARE OF THE RACIAL BIAS AND HOW DEEPLY IT INFECTS OUR CULTURE.

SO THIS WAS A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT IT IN A WAY THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, GEORGE FLOYD COULD NOT BECAUSE HE'S NO LONGER WITH US.

SO I FIGURED LET ME TRY AND DO THAT WITH, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S BEEN GIVEN.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SHOVE ALL THESE CAMERAS AND MICROPHONES IN MY FACE, I'M GOING TO USE THEM TO TRY TO SAY WHAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE SAID.

>> COULD YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE TO BE AT THE CENTER OF THAT KIND OF MAELSTROM AND FRENZY AND WHY YOU KIND OF WANTED TO WAIT FOR IT TO GO AWAY?

>> WELL, IT'S DISORIENTING AND DISRUPTIVE.

IT'S KIND OF WEIRD TO TURN ON YOUR TV AND YOUR NORMAL MORNING NEWSCAST IS TALKING ABOUT YOU, OR, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE YOUR PHONE VIBRATE IN YOUR POCKET WITH THE LATEST UPDATE FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES," AND IT'S GOT YOUR NAME IN IT.

THAT'S WEIRD, AND IT'S UNSETTLING, AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO PROCESS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S COMING AT YOU FROM SORT OF ALL DIRECTIONS.

THE WEIRDEST WAS WHEN I CAME HOME, AND A CONSERVATIVE RAG IN NEW YORK NEWSPAPER HAD SENT A PHOTOGRAPHER TO STAKE OUT THE FRONT OF MY APARTMENT BUILDING TO CATCH A PHOTO OF ME.

AND I'M DUCKING INTO MY APARTMENT BUILDING LIKE I'M PRINCESS DI DUCKING THE PAPARAZZI.

THAT'S JUST WEIRD.

SO IT'S A LOT TO DEAL WITH.

EVENTUALLY I WAS JUST LIKE, ALL RIGHT.

WELL, IF THIS IS WHAT IT IS, THEN LET'S USE IT FOR A POSITIVE PURPOSE.

>> YOU DECIDED NOT TO PURSUE CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST THE WOMAN WHO FALSELY ACCUSED YOU.

JUST FOR FOLKS WHO HAVEN'T FOLLOWED YOUR STORY, WHY NOT?

>> IT WAS UP TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY WHETHER HE WANTED TO PURSUE THE CHARGES OR NOT.

I DECIDED -- I DECLINED TO COOPERATE IN THAT.

IF HE NEEDED MY COOPERATION, HE COULD SUBPOENA ME, AND I WOULD AGREE.

THERE WERE A LOT OF REASONS BEHIND THAT DECISION.

PARTLY A SENSE OF PROPORTIONALITY.

HER LIFE HAD IMPLODED.

BUT I ALSO UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS POTENTIALLY A LEGAL POINT TO BE MADE.

SO THERE WAS A LOT TO BALANCE.

ULTIMATELY, I WAS RIGHT ON THE LINE, AND I DECIDED THAT, YOU KNOW, SORT OF A SENSE OF MERCY HAD TO PREVAIL.

BUT THERE'S SOMETHING EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAT HAPPENED IN THAT MOMENT, WHICH IS THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT HER.

AND TO FOCUS ON HER, FOR EVERYBODY TO SAY, OH, WE GOT TO THROW HER IN JAIL, THAT PUTS THE ATTENTION IN THE WRONG PLACE.

THE IMPORTANT THING IN THAT INCIDENT WAS HOW IT DEMONSTRATED HOW DEEPLY RACIAL BIAS RUNS IN OUR COUNTRY AND HOW IT'S INTEGRATED.

AND THAT BUBBLES UP IN MUCH MORE IMPORTANT WAYS THAN THE DUSTUP BETWEEN ME AND HER.

IT MANIFESTED LATER THAT DAY WHEN THAT RACIAL BIAS MADE A WHITE POLICE OFFICER THINK IT WAS OKAY FOR HIM TO KNEEL ON THE NECK OF A BLACK MAN UNTIL THAT MAN WAS DEAD.

THAT RACIAL BIAS COMES TO THE FORE IN THE OTHER COPS WHO WERE THERE WHO DID NOTHING BECAUSE OF THAT RACIAL BIAS THAT INFORMS HOW THEY MAKE THEIR DECISIONS.

WE SEE THAT RACIAL BIAS GOING ALL THE WAY TO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FACT THAT THE PEOPLE OF WASHINGTON, D.C., LARGELY BLACK AND BROWN, DON'T HAVE ANY VOTING REPRESENTATION IN CONGRESS WHILE, YOU KNOW, WHITE, RURAL VERMONT, WITH FEWER PEOPLE THAN D.C., WHITE, RURAL WYOMING WITH FEWER PEOPLE THAN D.C. GET TWO SENATORS EACH.

BUT THE URBAN PEOPLE OF WASHINGTON, D.C. HAVE NO REPRESENTATION.

THAT'S RACIAL BIAS AT WORK.

THOSE ARE IMPORTANT.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE SHOULD FOCUS ON, YOU KNOW.

WHILE WE'RE HIGH-FIVING, WE PUT THAT WOMAN IN JAIL, THE SUPREME COURT IS ROLLING BACK AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

SO WE'VE GOT TO KEEP OUR EYES ON THE PRIZE.

WE'VE GOT TO BE FOCUSED ON WHAT MATTERS AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO ERADICATE THAT RACIAL BIAS WHEN IT BUBBLES UP IN THESE PLACES THAT MATTER.

>> BEFORE WE MOVE PAST THE INCIDENT -- WE'LL CALL IT THAT -- YOU'D BEEN VISITING THAT SECTION OF THE PARK FOR YEARS.

AND I JUST WONDER IF IT CHANGED YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THAT PLACE THAT'S MEANINGFUL TO YOU.

>> NOT AT ALL.

IT'S FUNNY.

PEOPLE HAVE ASKED ME THAT.

HOW COULD THOSE THREE MINUTES, FOUR MINUTES, HOWEVER LONG IT WAS, POSSIBLY COMPARE TO 35-PLUS YEARS OF GOING TO THAT PLACE, THAT EXACT SPOT, AND SEEING ABSOLUTELY AMAZING BIRDS LIKE A MORNING WARBLER THAT CAME OUT ONTO THE WOOD CHIP PATH FOR ALL OF US TO SEE.

THIS INCREDIBLY RARE BIRD, AND IT'S OUT IN THE OPEN FOR ALL OF US TO SEE FOR A WEEK.

THAT'S WHAT'S IMPRINTED IN MY HEAD FOR THAT SPOT.

THE OTHER STUFF, YEAH, IT HAPPENED.

BUT THE BIRDS ARE SO MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT FOR ME.

>> OKAY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BIRDS.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOUR NEW BOOK "BETTER LIVING THROUGH BIRDING" NOTES FROM A BLACK MAN IN THE NATURAL WORLD.

IT'S THIS VERY INTERESTING KIND OF MEDITATION ON ALL THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SO FAR, SOCIAL JUSTICE AND OUR PLACE IN THE WORLD AND HOW WE TAKE UP SPACE.

SO JUST TALK ABOUT, IF YOU WOULD JUST TO START, HOW YOU FELL IN LOVE WITH BIRDING AND WITH BIRDS?

>> SURE.

AND THE FIRST THING ANYBODY WHO HAS TO KNOW ABOUT THE BOOK IS THAT IT IS A MEMOIR.

IT'S NOT A HOW-TO ABOUT BIRDING THOUGH THERE IS THAT SHOT THROUGH IT BECAUSE I'VE BEEN BIRDING MY WHOLE LIFE.

WHAT GOT ME STARTED WAS MY SPARK BIRD AS WE SAY IN BIRDING LINGGO WAS A RED-WINGED BLACKBIRD.

I PUT UP A BIRD FEEDER IN THE BACKYARD AND I WAS LOOKING AT ALL THESE ALL BLACKBIRDS WITH RED ON THE WINGS.

I THOUGHT I DISCOVERED A NEW SPECIES OF CROW.

THEN I FOUND OUT THEY'RE ACTUALLY RED-WINGED BLACKBIRDS.

BUT THAT DIDN'T MATTER.

I STILL LOVED IT, AND THAT'S WHO GOT ME STARTED.

>> BEFORE WE MOVE ON, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BIRDING AND BIRD WATCHING?

>> THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

WE PREFER BIRDING THESE DAYS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU CAN BE BLIND AND BE A BIRDER.

IN FACT, IN THE PUERTO RICO EPISODE OF MY SHOW "EXTRAORDINARY BIRDER," WE ACTUALLY MEET A BLIND BIRDER WHO ONLY SORTS BY SOUND AND IS ABLE TO ANALYZE RECORDINGS OVER 24 HOURS TO TELL THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE RESERVE, OH, THESE ARE THE BIRDS THAT HAVE SHOWN UP OVER THE LAST 24 HOURS.

AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT BECAUSE I'M LISTENING TO THE RECORDING AND TELL YOU WHAT'S BEEN THERE.

I'M A NEAR BIRDER.

YOU CAN DROP ME JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE IN THE NORTHEASTERN UNITED STATES, AND I CAN TELL YOU WHAT BIRDS ARE AROUND JUST BY WHAT I HEAR.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT JUST WATCHING.

>> INTERESTING.

>> THESE DAYS, WE USE "BIRDING".

>> YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK -- AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE -- ABOUT BEING A CLOSETED, QUEER BLACK KID IN A PREDOMINANTLY WHITE LONG ISLAND NEIGHBORHOOD YOU WERE KIND OF ALWAYS A BIT OF AN OUTSIDER.

AT LEAST YOU KIND OF FELT LIKE ONE.

HOW DID BIRDING KIND OF HELP YOU BE IN THE WORLD?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I KNEW I WAS GAY FROM LIKE SUPER EARLY, LIKE THE AGE OF 5.

FROM THAT AGE, I KNEW ENOUGH TO HIDE IT INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH.

SO WHEN YOU GOT ALL THAT BOTTLED UP INSIDE AND YOU FEEL AT ODDS WITH EVERYTHING, WITH THE WHOLE CULTURE, YOU KNOW, IT WEIGHS ON YOU.

WHAT BIRDING DOES, YOU KNOW, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR WOES ARE AND NO MATTER WHERE THEY COME FROM, IS BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A FOCUS ON, YOU KNOW, LOOKING FOR A CERTAIN KIND OF MOTION, LISTENING FOR PARTICULAR SOUNDS, FOR A LITTLE WHILE AT LEAST, WHATEVER WOES YOU'VE GOT FALL AWAY.

AND INSTEAD, YOU'RE FULLY ENGAGED WITH A NATURAL WORLD AROUND YOU THAT IS SO MUCH BIGGER THAN YOU ARE.

AND THEN AS YOU'RE ENGAGING WITH THIS WORLD, YOU REALIZE, I'M PART OF THIS WORLD TOO.

I'M AN INTEGRATED PART OF THIS NATURAL WORLD, AND YOU START TO LEARN ABOUT IT, AND YOU JUST GET ENGAGED ON SO MANY LEVELS WITH THE WILD.

AND WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IS PREYING ON YOUR MIND, WHATEVER IS WEIGHING YOU DOWN, FOR AT LEAST A LITTLE WHILE, IT GOES AWAY.

THAT'S AWESOME.

THAT'S INCREDIBLY HEALING.

THAT'S WHY I WISH MORE BLACK PEOPLE WOULD BIRD BECAUSE WE NEED THAT, YOU KNOW?

WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO LET GO AND JUST FEEL SOME HEALING FROM THE NATURAL WORLD.

>> IT SOUNDS, IN A WAY, LIKE YOU IMMEDIATELY FELT AT HOME IN THE NATURAL WORLD.

BUT DID YOU FEEL STILL AN OUTSIDER IN THAT WORLD AS YOU TOOK UP THIS PASSION?

>> OH, MY GOD, I WAS A CLOSETED GAY PERSON.

I'M BLACK, AND I WAS A BIRDER ON TOP OF THAT AND A NERD, A SCIENCE FICTION COMIC BOOK NERD.

I MIGHT AS WELL HAVE BEEN RED STAMPED ON MY FOREHEAD WITH A SCARLET LETTER.

SO I WAS AT ODDS WITH THE WORLD AROUND ME.

THAT WAS DIFFICULT AT TIMES.

>> WELL, BUT THE BIRDS DON'T CARE.

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT.

>> THAT IS THE THING.

THE BIRDS DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE QUEER, STRAIGHT, TRANS, YOU KNOW, BLACK, WHITE, ASIAN, HANDICAPPED, ABLE-BODIED.

THEY JUST -- THEY DON'T CARE.

SO THAT'S PRETTY AMAZING.

>> YOU DO HAVE SOME REALLY FUNNY STORIES, THOUGH, WHERE YOU GOT THE WORLD THERE WAS A SPECIAL BIRD YOU WANTED TO SEE, AND YOU'RE LIKE, HOLD UP.

I GOT TO GO.

>> IT HELPS TO HAVE UNDERSTANDING BOSSES.

THERE'S A WORD FOR THAT BY THE WAY.

IT'S CALLED THE TWITCH, WHERE YOU HEAR OF SOME RARE BIRD THAT IS, YOU KNOW, SHOWED UP SOMEWHERE, AND THE TWITCH IS WHEN YOU DROP EVERYTHING AND YOU JUST GO BECAUSE YOU GOT TO SEE THIS THING.

SO, YEAH, IT HELPS TO HAVE PEOPLE AROUND YOU WHO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT AND THAT THIS MAY OCCUR AT CERTAIN TIMES.

AND WHEN A KURTLAND'S WARBLER SHOWED UP IN CENTRAL PARK, WHICH THERE'S ONLY ABOUT 6,000 OF THEM IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, AND THEY BREED IN AN AREA ABOUT THIS BIG IN MICHIGAN.

AND ONE OF THEM TOOK A WRONG TURN AND ENDED UP IN CENTRAL PARK, AND SOMEBODY SAW IT AND KNEW WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT AND GOT THE WORD OUT.

AND WE LOST OUR MINDS.

I MEAN EVERYBODY TWITCHED FOR THAT ONE.

>> I SEE THAT.

I HEAR THAT.

SO HOW DO YOU GET STARTED?

GIVE US A LITTLE HINT HERE?

>> THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, IF YOU WANT TO GET STARTED BIRDING, IS TO JUST LOOK AND LISTEN.

STEP OUT YOUR FRONT DOOR AND LOOK AND LISTEN.

GET TO A LOCAL PARK.

LOOK AND LISTEN.

THAT'S THE FIRST THING.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WILL SEE BIRDS.

YOU MAY NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE, AND THAT'S OKAY.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE EXPERT.

YOU'LL LEARN.

SOME PEOPLE THINK BINOCULARS ARE A BARRIER TO ENTRY BECAUSE THEY CAN BE SUPER EXPENSIVE.

DON'T LET THAT STOP YOU.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE THEM, THERE HAVE BEEN PLENTY OF TIMES I'VE BEEN CAUGHT OUT WITHOUT MY BIN OCULARS.

I JUST USE MY EYES AND EARS.

>> YOU'RE A LONGTIME BOARD MEMBER OF THE NEW YORK AUDUBON SOCIETY.

THERE ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE NAME SHOULD BE CHANGED TO GET RID OF THE NAME OF JOHN JAMES AUDUBON.

HE WAS A NOTED OPPONENT OF ABOLITION.

HE OWNED AND SOLD ENSLAVED PEOPLE.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT IT?

>> I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO COMES DOWN ON THE SIDE OF WE NEED TO LOSE THE NAME, AND I'M VERY HAPPY TO SAY THAT NEW YORK CITY AUDUBON, WHICH AS YOU MENTIONED I'M A BOARD MEMBER, HAS MADE THAT DECISION TO CHANGE THE NAME.

AND WE NEED TO BE CLEAR.

THERE IS NO ERASING AUDUBON.

THIS IS NOT CANCEL CULTURE.

THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, OH, MY GOODNESS, HIS NAME MUST BE STRICKEN FROM THE ROLLS.

YOU CAN'T.

JOHN JAMES AUDUBON WAS HUGE IN TERMS OF ILLUSTRATING THE BIRDS OF NORTH AMERICA, BRINGING A PUBLIC AWARENESS OF THE BIRDS OF NORTH AMERICA TO A WIDER AUDIENCE.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO CHANGE THAT.

YOU CAN ASTERISK IT WITH THE FACT THAT A LOT OF HIS WORK WAS FUNDED BY THE SALE OF SLAVES, BY THE WORK OF SLAVES.

THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ASTERISK.

BUT YOU CAN'T ERASE IT, SO WHY CHANGE THE NAME?

BECAUSE BIRDING HAS BEEN OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE FOR THE LONGEST TIME.

I MEAN I USED TO JOKE WHEN I WAS YOUNG THAT, OH, YOU COULD COUNT ALL THE BLACK BIRDERS IN NORTH AMERICA ON THE FINGERS OF ONE HAND.

HAPPILY THAT'S CHANGING, BUT THERE'S STILL A HUGE DEFICIT IN THE NUMBER OF BLACK BIRDERS.

AND IF YOU LEAD WITH, AH, PLEASE JOIN OUR BIRDING ORGANIZATION.

IT'S THE JOHN JAMES AUDUBON SOCIETY, YOU KNOW, NAMED AFTER THIS SLAVE OWNER, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME GETTING BLACK PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T ALREADY SIGNED ON TO BIRDING TO JOIN.

AND WE REALLY NEED TO DO THAT BECAUSE WE NEED TO GET EVERYBODY BIRDING.

WE NEED EVERYBODY FOCUSED ON THE BIRDS BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY IN NORTH AMERICA, JUST IN MY LIFETIME, WE HAVE LOST ONE-THIRD OF THE BIRDS IN NORTH AMERICA.

GONE.

>> AND WHY IS THAT?

IS THAT CLIMATE?

IS THAT DEVELOPMENT?

>> THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF REASONS.

HABITAT LOSS, CLIMATE CHANGE, YOU KNOW, AND ALL OF THEM JUST COMING TOGETHER TO REALLY GIVE US AS HUMAN BEINGS A HUGE WARNING SIGN THAT SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY WRONG WITH OUR ENVIRONMENT.

I MEAN TALK ABOUT A CANARY IN THE COAL MINE.

WE'VE GOT ONE-THIRD OF OUR BIRDS ACTING AS THAT CANARY TELL US WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING TO FIX OUR ENVIRONMENT.

SO IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT, WE NEED ALL HANDS ON DECK.

THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE COUNTRY ARE CHANGING, AND IF BIRDING REMAINS AN ENTIRELY WHITE OR PERCEIVED AS ENTIRELY WHITE ACTIVITY, THEN WE'RE IN TROUBLE.

>> BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, MR. COOPER, YOU'VE HAD THIS WONDERFUL -- I MEAN YOU'VE WRITTEN THIS WONDERFUL BOOK.

YOU MIGHT HAVE WRITTEN IT ABSENT THE INCIDENT IN CENTRAL PARK MAYBE.

YOU HAVE THIS SHOW ON NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, "EXTRAORDINARY BIRDER."

I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES WOULD HAVE COME TO YOU HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR THIS -- THIS TERRIBLE, PAINFUL INCIDENT.

AND I DON'T KNOW.

I WONDER HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THE NOTORIETY THAT CAME WITH THE INCIDENT AND THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT CAME MY WAY.

I CONSIDER MYSELF INCREDIBLY PRIVILEGED BECAUSE -- AND I'VE CERTAINLY FOUND THIS OUT MAKING THE SHOW "EXTRAORDINARY BIRDER" BECAUSE THAT TITLE ISN'T ABOUT ME.

IT'S ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT BIOLOGISTS AND PLAIN OLD BIRDERS WHO ARE DOING EXTRAORDINARY THINGS TO SAVE THE BIRDS AND FOR THE HABITATS THAT WE ALL ENJOY.

AND THEY ARE ALL DOING THESE AMAZING THINGS, HAVE BEEN DOING THEM FOR YEARS, AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY GET THE CHANCE TO TELL THEIR STORY IN THEIR OWN WORDS AS I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO.

AND SO I CONSIDER IT -- I CONSIDER MYSELF EXTREMELY PRIVILEGED, AND I THINK THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF EQUALLY AMAZING STORIES OUT THERE THAT PEOPLE ARE JUST LIVING.

AND IF I HAD NEVER GOTTEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO WRITE THIS BOOK OR DO THIS TV SHOW, I WOULD STILL BE LIVING WHAT I DO, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, AS I SAID BEFORE, FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE FOR BLACK PEOPLE, EQUALITY FOR QUEER PEOPLE, AND WILD BIRDS FOR ALL PEOPLE.

AND I'D STILL BE DOING IT.

SO THIS JUST LETS ME DO IT ON A BIGGER PLATFORM.

SO, YAY, AND I'M HAPPY THAT'S THAT HAPPENED.

BUT REALLY I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE AMAZING STORIES TO TELL, AND I WISH ALL OF THEM GOT THE ATTENTION THAT THEY SHOULD GET.

>> WELL, SPEAKING OF THE ATTENTION OVER SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, TURNING PAIN INTO PURPOSE, I WAS CURIOUS IF THE WOMAN WHO FALSELY ACCUSED YOU, HAS SHE EVER REACHED OUT TO YOU?

HAS SHE EVER APOLOGIZED?

>> SHE APOLOGIZED IN THE PRESS IN A FASHION.

I DON'T THINK IT INDICATED THAT SHE QUITE UNDERSTOOD EVERYTHING THAT HAD HAPPENED, WHY IT WAS SIGNIFICANT.

SHE NEVER REACHED OUT TO ME DIRECTLY.

I'M NOT LOOKING FOR ANYTHING FROM HER, YOU KNOW.

I HAVE MY OWN LIFE.

I'M MOVING FORWARD WITH IT AND HOPEFULLY SHE'S DOING THE SAME.

>> CHRISTIAN COOPER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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♪♪