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News stories with the journalist behind those stories.

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With Randy Beamer.

Hi, everybody, and thank you for joining us for On the Record.

I'm Randy Beamer, and this week we are going to talk about the flooding up in the Hill Country.

The response, exactly what went on and what might be done in the future to present this and prevent this kind of tragedy.

But we are starting with something a little different.

What it has been like for reporters who are in the Hill country, in San Antonio, the whole area covering this tragedy and others as well.

But how this one is different.

And joining us is Myra Arthur, KSAT 12 anchor.

Thank you very much for coming in.

Yeah, thanks.

For having you.

You've covered a lot of, terribly sad stories, tragedies, aftermaths of, natural disasters and the shooting in Uvalde.

What has this one been like?

What stood out in your mind about what it's like to cover this one?

I think just the the scope of how devastating this has been, you know, I was on the air on July 4th, covering it in the studio here in San Antonio, but then went out to the Hill Country on July 5th and seeing it all day long, seeing images of it, on video, pictures.

It is very different once you see it in person.

Of course, you're looking as far as the eye can see at these massive trees that you know, used to.

If anybody knows the hill country, it was like trees.

The river was lined with trees that just seemed to touch the sky, and now they're flat.

The bald cypress gone and snapped.

Gone.

I mean bark ripped off of the side of some of these massive trees simply by the force of water.

And that's as far as the eye can see.

And you know that there are miles upon miles upon miles of that.

And just how all of that debris is mingled with people's lives and parts of their homes and.

And people.

And people, and knowing that there were people somewhere in that, that thousands of first responders and thousands of volunteer hours are now tasked with finding, it's incredibly hard.

What about, you know, you need to get the information.

You need to get numbers.

You need to get the how, where, when and why what.

But also then when you're talking with the victims and their families and what that has been like, you're a mother, and we're we're talking a lot about the little girls.

Yeah.

Can't mistake.

Yeah.

And, you know, a lot of those little girls that were in those cabins closest to the river that were mostly affected, you know, they're the same age as my oldest son.

And I thought a lot about that.

And I think that I think it came out in some of my reporting and, I think you have to feel that in order to accurately depict what people are going through, I, you know, I never want to be a news robot who doesn't feel what, what people are feeling.

But talking to somebody who is looking for a loved one, talking to someone who has already received the news that they lost somebody.

It's incredibly hard.

And I think that it's also a huge responsibility if someone agrees to share what they've gone through with me as a journalist.

I want to make sure that I do their story justice.

And I think that for some people, you know, that the last thing they want to do is talk about it for other people.

Part of coping is sharing what they went through, and it's a start.

It gets cathartic in some ways, and if someone agrees to do that with me or any of my colleagues, I think that's an incredible responsibility that we have to take very seriously.

How has the reaction to reporters up there changed as it is focused from what happened to why it happened, and maybe who's to blame?

The word that the governor bristled at.

What is it been like to to see that change?

And what's it been like for the reporters out there?

I have to say that, you know, being there the day after the flood on the fifth, everyone that I ran into, neighbors who were on streets where homes had been swept off their foundations, where they knew that they had lost people.

Everyone was is pretty welcoming and receptive and just wanted to share what they saw, what what questions they have, what they've been through.

But I did notice that in the days that followed, once more questions arose about the timing of the alerts and was a code red alert sent out in time?

Should something more have been done to warn people?

I did get stopped by some folks in Kerrville just saying, hey, now is not the time to ask those questions in their opinion.

They felt like, you know, the mission needed to continue to be on people finding people, getting loved ones answered, or getting loved ones answers.

And I totally agree with that.

But I do think that those questions need to be addressed.

And it's a tough spot for first responders, local officials, to be in because they have some grave questions about those who are still missing to answer.

But also, you know, we have to look at what could be done to make sure something like this does not ever happen again.

And also, you know, reporters are sometimes seen as vultures coming in after this.

I've been covered enough over the years.

But then you're also you're asking the cathartic questions.

You let people know.

It was one week after the flooding that the president held a roundtable and a reporter asked a question some of the parents are asking, wanting to know why this happened.

I don't know if she used the word blame or whatever.

And then the president responded, you were there for that.

What was that like?

The the president called that line of questioning evil.

And a few days prior, similar line of questioning, the governor had called it the wording of losers.

Something to that.

Use the football analogy.

Use the football analogy.

Yes.

And talked about, you know, that being the questioning of a losing team, if you will.

You know, I think that that's, that's tough.

I think questions like that have to be asked because how could we not want to look at what happened to make sure that in no way it happens again.

But if a family of survivors or victims has those questions.

And that's how she said it, you know, what do you tell the parents?

That's our job to ask that, you know, and I do want to point out that while the, governor and the president clearly disapproved of that line of questioning, the governor a few sentences later did go on to say all of those things as far as warning systems, as far as, natural disaster preparedness, those are things we will be addressing come the special legislative session that starts in just a few days.

Where do you see that reporting shifting over time as to what it's focused on, you know, initially and then what we'll be focused on now.

And some people always over that time say, well, you're forgetting about us, the victims.

Yeah.

And what kind of resources are being, spent now to report on what's going on?

I have to say, you know, it's different for local journalists.

We're not leaving.

You know, the the big names, the national outlets, they're all there.

They descended upon the hill country, and rightly so.

So you could tell just the amount of traffic that changed from, you know, being there on July 5th to the days that followed Kerrville, it it's the Hill Country.

It's not a place that is normally inundated with all of these people.

And eventually those, you know, larger outlets, they will leave.

But local journalists won't leave.

I mean, that's our area to continue covering.

And will it be with, you know, the same frequency?

No.

It won't.

But just like in other tragedies that we've covered in our area, we will continue to check back in and to, to talk about as this moves in different stages as rebuilding begins to happen, especially, you know, some of the places that, we have featured in our reporting, like critters, in the hunt area, like the hunt store.

I mean, those are staples in the Hill country.

And as places like that come back eventually, there's questions about, do these camps come back?

Do they look different than they were before?

If they do.

But the central focus is the people.

When you talk about, what's going on and other tragedies that you've, you covered, how would you compare this?

And you can't in some ways.

But to Uvalde, you know, Uvalde strong hill country strong.

But afterwards blame here.

How how are these the same?

How are they different?

I mean, I think, you know, for me, as a journalist and as a mom, both have been horrific to cover just because of the number of children, that were lost in this and the number of parents whose lives will never be the same.

But they are two very different events in Uvalde.

We knew that was someone's fault.

Someone went into that school and caused all of that to happen.

In this case, nobody caused that amount of rainfall to fall in one place.

Nobody caused that river to rise.

But yes, there are questions about could more have been done earlier, should people have had better warning?

But it also happened July 4th weekend, when so many people are camping there.

They're with their families, they're in cabins, they're in RVs.

Perfect storm.

Yes.

And it happened in the middle of the night when people are sleeping.

And, you know, I know that when I'm with my family and I have time off, I try not to have my phone right next to me.

Yes.

You know, we need a break.

So I understand, if people weren't as plugged in and connected as they normally would be.

To things like alerts and text messages, and there's just so many factors that just made this, I think, so severe.

Well, good luck in the reporting.

If I can say that, because I've been there and I know it's a tough spot and, it it does affect you when you go to sleep at night.

Well, thank you very much for coming in.

I want to thank also KSAT 12 for being a news partner with Keller in and, all the best.

Myra Arthur, KSAT 12 anchor.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Randi.

As for what contributed to the flooding and what might be done to prevent such floods in the future in terms of, the geology and the engineering, of, the areas around the flooding, both here in San Antonio, in the middle of June, as well as in the hill country doctor Hatem Sharif, professor at UTSA, professor of civil and environmental engineering, joins us.

Thank you very much for talking with us.

Now, first of all, you wrote, an article in the Express News after the June flooding and kind of dissected some of the, reasons for it and that there needed to be a forensic hydrologist investigation.

Is this also, you think, necessary after the Hill Country flooding?

Yeah, I think this is, this will help, I think, understanding the dynamics of these catastrophic events, how they happened.

And also I think in addition to understanding the dynamics of those, tragedies, it also will help maybe also emergency management, people understand how what what they can do in those situations.

So if you recreate this event, understand how to have it in detail, in terms of timelines and if the next one happened, people are for you know, what to do.

What are some of the things that we don't think about as, I guess you people that that you think about as an engineer?

And a hydrologist and geologist?

I think that people must understand that, like, some characteristics of those floods.

First, I think they should understand, intensity of the water, of the rainfall and the depth and velocity of water that, like, usually evolve during those events.

So this is why probably some people underestimate the power of water.

And then they do, actions that result of them being swept away.

Or maybe like drowning or so.

And I think those, events are intense.

They happen very quickly.

Quickly.

They are called flash floods for a reason.

So they evolve very quickly.

The force of the water is, like, really can move vehicles, including SUVs and trucks, and to the next, creek.

And and now some of the things that you mentioned about the San Antonio flooding, including maybe undersized pipes and vegetation along the creeks, that's is that's something you can look at in the hill country.

Could there be some reshaping, of the river area or pipes that might help.

Making use of the natural vegetation so that it will can, slow down.

So movement of water may be replanting some areas?

So there are some, solutions that they do not it will not require a lot of change to the landscape.

I think for the situation the most important, thing is improving the forecasting and warning.

How specific can you be?

I know there are sensors up there in the Hill country.

That showed, one of them that, the river rose something like 20ft within an hour and a half.

What would that should there be more sensors?

And if you get that specific, how would you warn people down river?

And how far down?

How early could you do that with that kind of rainfall.

Sensor are helpful.

But I think, an integrated forecasting system, I think that will be will be a better way.

Like, say you need the hydrologic model in addition to the forecasting that, then you need to forecast the flooding.

And then this will give you like some ideas about which area will flood in and how many minutes like this area would be flooded in half an hour.

This would be in one hour, which, streets become impassable so that emergency crews then work more efficiently and people know how to navigate this, flood.

So I think, the, an integrated forecasting system that will forecast real time impacts on the ground.

That would be very helpful.

Now, right now, I guess you can forecast, you know, when the crest is going to hit down river after there has been this big wave of water, but with the terrain, if knowledge of the terrain, and say the rainfall, you could predict how fast, how big it would be in certain areas.

How widespread.

Yeah.

I it areas not only in the river, even the areas like say mystic and many areas, those areas will be flooded because the the floodway will widen quickly.

Those regions will be flooded in how many minutes?

Area which area will be flooded and when which streets will become impossible and when.

And so and I think that there technology there and is being used in some areas like say Houston in the medical area in Houston, they have a forecasting system that forecast flood areas that will be flooded.

And and now in San Antonio on the mission reach of the river, you know, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had basically made it, drainage ditch decades ago.

And then we replanted.

What would you change in terms of the geography up there, the terrain to, to make flooding less likely?

Would you take away some of the big trees?

Would you plant grasses?

How how would that work?

Now?

I think you guessed maybe.

Well, this is a largely you went ahead, flash, flood alley is a large region.

I think, like, structures probably are not the best, solution.

I think it more it is more of education and, maybe redesign the computing of the, flood zones, understanding those kind of events and how they affect.

I think those are rare events.

And no, no structural solution maybe would be feasible.

So how how much.

Have we made in terms of advancements?

Say, you know, in 1987 there was a big flood in comfort and they, and then 98, the big flood here, there were sirens installed in some areas.

But in terms of the forecasting and the hydrology and the terrain, how many advancements have we made?

How much more do we know now?

I think we know much more than before on especially in terms of, forecasting, in terms of, rainfall forecasting and in terms of the forecasting of impacts of the cloud using hydraulic model.

So technology is improving, and I think that it's, yeah.

But I think also Educacion is important in Texas.

Those events, as you mentioned, happen like every say, ten years or so.

So people sometimes they tend to forget.

And also the population dynamics in Texas it's changing.

So people do not have a memory of those, big events.

And the last quick question, after you put the article in the paper about the San Antonio flooding, what could be done?

What kind of reaction have you had?

People say, oh, yes, we need that.

That's kind of novel for a lot of people.

Any pushback, any support?

Yeah, I think people support that.

I think even agencies are working towards that.

Yeah.

Improving, making the forecasts more specific, more location specific timing events.

And also they like should be action oriented.

What do I need to do.

Like move to higher ground.

Some people actually move to higher ground shelter at home.

Do not and also do not use drive through flooded streets.

I think action is in the forecast should be action oriented.

What they need to do.

All right.

Well thank you very much.

Some great information.

Doctor Hatem Sharif, professor of civil and environmental engineering at UTSA.

Thanks.

Thank you very much.

And now to what's been going on in Kern County this week with, Commissioners Court and a man who has been covering the Hill country, the flooding, for some time now, since the beginning.

Ricardo Delgado, who is the Hill Country reporter of the San Antonio Express-News.

Thank you very much for coming in.

No problem.

First of all, the commissioners in Kern County met this week and faced a lot of questions.

And some of them, they, you know, they can't answer yet.

What what came out of this meeting?

Well, there was a lot of, just thinking, first responders and other fellow, elected officials who had shown up in, you know, asked questions, gone through search and rescue operations themselves.

Some commissioners mentioned some stuff maybe they would like to do in the future.

Regarding the river and other commissioners just basically said, well, we can't necessarily give you all the answers from up here right now, basically, asking for patience from people asking questions and the residents themselves.

Was their patience.

What kind of response did they get from people in the room?

So, there was mainly three public speakers.

All of them spoke with regards to the flooding, most of them just thanking the commissioners and the first responders, asking them to pray for the community and, hoping the area recovers.

Well, one of them had a suggestion, about maybe possibly draining, the lakes.

One of the lakes alongside the Guadalupe River, specifically for some cleanup, mostly because it's, you know, there's a lot of stuff under there.

And, a couple of the commissioners and, as well as the judge mentioned that there is stuff under there that they probably need to get out.

And there are also some questions about, well, I don't know if there are questions, but they're the topic of threats that have been brought up, against city officials, against county officials.

And how did they respond to that?

So, Commissioner, for precinct two rich places, his area covers Center Point, which saw a lot of flooding.

He mentioned, after briefly talking about, some of the search and rescue that he was a part of and some of the stuff going on in Center Point that he had received, death threats.

He didn't elaborate on them too much.

He just mentioned it briefly and then mentioned that he had been target.

And some elected officials have been a target of, negativity following the flooding for things that, decisions made before his time on the court.

At least that's about all he mentioned.

And some of those threats, I guess, came up because, one of the stories last week or one of the many stories, is that they have been talking a commissioners court had been talking about putting in warning sirens since 2016.

Has that come up again?

Specifically, are they talking sirens and a program and costs and working with state leaders on that?

They haven't, mentioned it to in depth, at least within that meeting.

That meeting on Monday, precinct three, Commissioner Jeff Holt mentioned, possibly wanting sirens alongside some of the cities in Graham Hunt, Kerrville along the Guadalupe.

But there wasn't too much in-depth discussion about measures or sirens.

At this meeting yet.

And now, as a Hill Country reporter, you covered commissioners court have for some time city council, their, city council meeting last week, and they'll be talking again this week or this next coming week.

Yeah.

The last city council meeting, which was, last week, was pretty emotional, as you can imagine.

It was pretty fresh off of the flooding just days afterward.

And, they spoke about debris cleanup, where they would be putting it, some solutions.

What infrastructure was damaged?

Stuff like that.

They'll be meeting on Tuesday.

Likely.

This will, they'll likely have to do with business they postponed because they completely postponed their regular agenda in light of the flooding.

And they'll probably still be talking about cleanup and other things affected by the flooding.

And what about business?

You mentioned business, but the businesses up there devastated.

Some of them have opened up again, though, to help other people right now, restaurants and things like that.

Where are they in terms of getting back what they need to get back?

It depends on, I guess, how close they were to the river and how they were affected.

Some of them are still cleaning up, and need an inspection, just from the city or the county to see if they're able to open.

If their structures are fine, some of them have already started up and fulfilling, you know, business orders.

Some of them weren't too affected and just had to clean out, flood water.

It really just depends.

And there's been several funds announced by both local community funds.

The governor announced yesterday about, I want to say 5 million for micro businesses, which is businesses with 20 or fewer employees.

So they're all various different states of open and functioning.

And what about the future of camps up there?

I mean, it's a big part of tourism, the economy.

People don't realize that as anyone talking about that, the short term, long term effects on the camps.

So, I'm not, aware of what the conversations necessarily for the camp, the people who run the camps there, looks like.

But I know I spoke to a business owner, actually, who has a business on the Guadalupe, and he mentioned that he got a lot of business from people who brought their children to camps, families, you know, who would bring their children to camps, eat at his restaurant.

And he mentioned that he, was a little afraid that the flood, apart from all the devastating loss of life, would have, maybe he could call the killing the golden egg.

You know, that it would.

People now will be afraid of attending camps and that that is going to have a ripple effect on the tourism, of Kerrville and Kerr County.

Is anyone talking you about flood plains and rebuilding and whether they can or can't?

County is a little bit different in terms of regulations and cities and what they can or can't do.

There hasn't been too much discussion immediately about rebuilding.

I mean, there's general sentiment about bouncing back from most elected officials.

That's mostly in the first week after what has been most dedicated to search, rescue, recovery.

There has been too much discussion about flood plains yet.

All right, well, I know that's coming up, and it's going to be on your list to do as you're very busy up there in the Hill Country.

Thank you very much for coming in.

Ricardo Delgado, Hill country reporter of the San Antonio Express News.

You can read more of that.

Is it online now?

Express news dot dot.

Online and in print.

I knew that.

All right.

Thanks very much, Ricardo Delgado, and thank you for joining us for this edition of On the Record.

You can watch the show again.

You can watch any previous shows.

You can also download it as a podcast at klrn.org I'm Randy Beamer, and we'll see you next time.

On the record is brought to you by Steve and Adele Dufilho