>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME >>> THANK YOU, DEAR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS FOR YOUR SUPPORT OF ISRAEL THROUGHOUT HISTORY AND AT THIS CRITICAL MOMENT IN TIME.

[ APPLAUSE ] >> ISRAEL'S PRESIDENT ADDRESSES THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS, BUT AS SOME LAWMAKERS BOYCOTT AND WITH TENSIONS SIMMERING OVER DEMOCRACY IN ISRAEL, WE TAKE A TEMPERATURE CHECK ON THIS IMPORTANT DIPLOMATIC RELATIONSHIP WITH DENNIS ROSS, FORMER SPECIAL MIDDLE EAST COORDINATOR UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON.

>>> THEN, U.S./CHINA RELATIONS AGAIN IN FOCUS AFTER A RECENT SPATE OF HIGH PROFILE HACKS, WE HONE IN ON CYBERATTACKS AND THE THREAT POSED BY CHINA WITH CHRIS KREBS, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY.

>>> AND -- >> I THINK IT IS INCUMBENT UPON US IN THE BANKING INDUSTRY TO BE FOCUSED ON THE WEALTH GAP AND THAT WEALTH GAP FOR BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IS WAY TOO HUGE.

>> BANKING WITH A CONSCIENCE.

>>> PLUS, ARE THINGS LOOKING UP FOR THE U.S. ECONOMY?

WALTER ISAACSON SPEAKS TO INDUSTRY LEADER PRISCILLA SIMS BROWN, CEO OF AMALGAMATED BANK.

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>>> I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

IRONCLAD THAT IS HOW ISAAC HERZOG IS DESCRIBING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HIS COUNTRY HIETS.

TODAY HE ADDRESSED CONGRESS, HE ATTEMPTED TO AFFIRM THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ISRAELI/U.S.

FRIRP FRIENDSHIP DESPITE RECENT FISSURES.

HE WAS RECEIVED WITH STRONG BIPARTISAN SUPPORT EVEN AS A HANDFUL OF DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS BOYCOTTED TODAY'S ADDRESS.

TENSIONS HAVE BEEN GROWING OVER THE ACTIONS OF BENJAMIN NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING ITS CREEPING OCCUPATION OF THE WEST BANK AND THE DIVISIVE PUSH TO OVERHAUL THE COURT SYSTEM, WHICH MANY SEE AS AN ATTACK ON DEMOCRACY.

LET'S GET INTO ALL OF THIS NOW WITH DENNIS ROSS, HE WAS THE UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON.

IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE YOU ON THE PROGRAM.

THIS IS A HISTORIC SPEECH BEFORE CONGRESS FOR PRESIDENT HERZOG.

HE WAS ONLY THE SECOND ISRAELI PRESIDENT TO DO SO, THE FIRST BEING HIS FATHER.

HIS POSITION, WE SHOULD NOTE, IS LARGELY CEREMONIAL, BUT HE IS NO NOVICE WHEN IT COMES TO ISRAELI POLITICS.

HE HAS SERVED IN A NUMBER OF GOVERNMENTS AND WAS ACTUALLY A CANDIDATE SOME YEARS BACK FOR THE LABOR PARTY.

FOR OUR VIEWERS WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH HIM, TELL US MORE ABOUT THIS MAN.

>> WELL, I THINK YOU GAVE A GOOD THUMBNAIL SKETCH TO BEGIN WITH.

HE'S A PRETTY SEASONED POLITICIAN.

HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE LABOR PARTY.

HIS FATHER WAS THE PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL, WAS FORMERLY THE HEAD OF MILITARY INTELLIGENCE, WAS ONE OF THE GREAT COMMENTATORS DURING THE ISRAELI WARS, AND HE WAS ALSO SEEN AS KIND OF A NONPARTISAN PERSON.

HE WASN'T REALLY POLITICAL IN THE SAME WAY THAT ISAAC HERZOG BE PRIME MINISTER, ACTUALLY CAME FAIRY CLOSE.

THE LABOR PARTY WHEN HE RAN ACTUALLY GOT 24 MANDATES, TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE DIFFERENCE, TODAY THE LABOR PARTY HAS FIVE MANDATES.

SO WHEN HE WAS RUNNING, HE MADE THE LABOR PARTY A VERY SIGNIFICANT POLITICAL FORCE.

AS THE PRESIDENT, IT IS A CEREMONIAL POSITION, BUT I WOULD JUST NOTE FOR YOUR VIEWERS THE PRESIDENT ACTUALLY HAS AN IMPORTANT POSITION FROM SEVERAL PRACTICAL STANDPOINTS.

NUMBER ONE, AFTER AN ELECTION, IT'S THE PRESIDENT WHO MAKES THE DECISION TO ASK A LEADER OF A PARTY TO FORM A GOVERNMENT, MEANING EVEN THOUGH YOU WOULD THINK THAT WHOEVER COMES IN AS THE HEAD OF THE PARTY WITH A LARGE NUMBER OF VOTES YOU WOULD AUTOMATICALLY ASK THEM TO FORM A GOVERNMENT.

IF THE PRESIDENT THINKS THAT PERSON WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FORM A GOVERNMENT, HE WOULD GO TO SOMEONE ELSE.

THAT'S ONE POWER HE HAS.

ANOTHER POWER HE HAS, HE HAS THE PARDONS.

THERE ARE THOSE WHO SOMETIMES TALK GIVEN PRESIDENT NETANYAHU'S LEGAL TROUBLES, SOMETIMES THEY TALK ABOUT PLEA DEALS BUT THE IN BACK OF THE MIND OF SOME COULD BE THAT A PARDON COULD BE SIGNIFICANT AT A CERTAIN POINT.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, BECAUSE HE ASSUMES A POSITION OF BEING ABOVE POLITICS AND A TIME WHEN THERE'S SUCH GREAT POLARIZATION WITHIN ISRAEL BECAUSE HE HAS THE IMAGE OF BEING ABOVE POLITICS, HE MAY BE THE ONE FIGURE WHO CAN ACTUALLY BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

HE ACTUALLY HAS PRESENTED THAT BECAUSE THE DISCUSSIONS TO TRY TO COME TO AN UNDERSTANDING ON THE WHOLE QUESTION OF HOW YOU REFORM OR OVERHAUL THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM, THERE HAVE BEEN A SET OF DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE UNDER HIS AUSPICES.

NOW, THOSE DISCUSSIONS HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED FOR THE TIME BEING.

HE, AGAIN, IS MAKING THE CASE, LOOK -- IS AND I HEARD IN THE SPEECH TODAY -- HE MADE A SPECIAL PLEA FOR PRODUCING A CHANGE HERE BUT DOING IT ON THE BASIS OF A VERY BROAD CONSENSUS, WHICH BY THE WAY IS VERY MUCH WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN THAT HE'S BEEN WALKING.

AS YOU SAID, THIS IS A CEREMONIAL ROLE THAT HE IS IN NOW AS PRESIDENT AND NOT POLITICAL, BUT HE HAS PLAYED THE MEDIATOR IN TERMS OF TRYING TO FIND SOME RESOLUTION IN THESE JUDICIAL REFORMS AND TO THUS FAR NO AVAIL.

HE BRIEFLY ADDRESSED THE CURRENT CRISIS IN ISRAEL RIGHT NOW AND CONCERNS ABOUT THE FUTURE DEMOCRACY OF THAT STATE BEFORE CONGRESS.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.

>> I'M WELL AWARE OF THE IMPERFECTIONS OF ISRAELI DEMOCRACY, AND I'M CONSCIOUS OF THE QUESTIONS POSED BY OUR GREATEST OF FRIENDS.

THE MOMENTOUS DEBATE IN ISRAEL IS PAINFUL AND DEEPLY UNNERVING BECAUSE IT HIGHLIGHTS THE CRACKS IN THE HOLE, WITHIN THE ENTIRE HOLE AND AS PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL, I AM HERE TO TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND EACH OF YOU THAT I HAVE GREAT CONFIDENCE IN ISRAELI DEMOCRACY.

THAT MOMENT RIGHT THERE?

BECAUSE HE WAS SPEAKING NOT ONLY FOR A U.S.

AUDIENCE, BUT I WOULD SAY ARGUABLY MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR AN ISRAELI AUDIENCE CLOSELY WATCHING THE SPEECH BACK AT HOME.

>> YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I THINK YOU PUT YOUR FINGER ON SOMETHING.

HE WAS NOT ADDRESSING ONLY AN AMERICAN AUDIENCE, AND WHAT HE SAID THERE, OF COURSE, WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPERFECTIONS, HERE HE WAS ADDRESSING MORE THE AMERICAN AUDIENCE THAN THE ISRAELI ONE, BUT WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT HIS FAITH IN DEMOCRACY, IN A SENSE WHAT HE WAS SAYING, WE'RE DEMONSTRATING THAT FAITH AND OUR COMMITMENT TO DEMOCRACY AND THE DEPTHS OF OUR ETHOS IN THIS REGARD BECAUSE LOOK AT THE DEMONSTRATIONS.

WE'RE NOW IN THE 29th WEEK OF DEMONSTRATIONS NO ISRAEL IN ISRAEL THAT TOTAL ALMOST ON A WEEKLY BASIS ANYWHERE FROM 3 TO 4% OF THE TOTAL POPULATION.

I THINK VERY MUCH WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON WITH HIM WHEN HE MAKES THIS STATEMENT AND TALKING ABOUT WHILE THIS IS PAINFUL, HE'S ALSO SAYING THIS IS A MANIFESTATION OF OUR DEMOCRACY BECAUSE THE GRASS ROOTS IN ISRAEL HAS PRODUCED THIS MOVEMENT.

THIS WASN'T CREATED BY THE POLITICAL HEADS OF THE OPPOSITION.

THIS WAS CREATED BY THOSE WHO PRETTY MUCH REPRESENT THE GRASS ROOTS OF THE COUNTRY.

>> AND HE COULD VERY WELL BE, I MEAN, IF YOU FOLLOW RUMORS IN ISRAEL, ONCE HIS TERMS IS UP AS PRESIDENT THERE'S SPECULATION THAT HE MAY RUN AGAIN FOR PRIME MINISTER OF THE COUNTRY.

HE ALSO ADDRESSED THE SIMMERING TENSION WHILE HE WAS WELCOMED BROADLY FROM BOTH SIDES THERE IN THAT CHAMBER, THERE WERE A HANDFUL OF PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS WHO SAT THIS OUT, AND THERE'S BEEN A WEEK OF HEADLINES HERE IN THE UNITED STATES IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS SPEECH WHERE YOU ACTUALLY HAD THE PROGRESSIVE CHAIR, THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, CONGRESSWOMAN JAYAPAL CALL ISRAEL A RACIST STATE.

SHE THEN WALKED THOSE WORDS BACK, BUT CLEARLY THAT WAS SEEN AS AN OPENING FOR REPUBLICANS TO QUICKLY HOLD A VOTE IN SUPPORT OF ISRAEL, AND THAT GOT OVERWHELMING SUPPORT.

YOU SAW HIM ADDRESS SOME OF THESE ISSUES AND SAY IT IS REASONABLE TO QUESTION SOME OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT'S POLICIES AND TO DISAGREE WITH THEM, BUT TO DRAW A DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT HE VIEWED AS ANTI-SEMITISM AND ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO EXISTENCE, HE WENT ON TO SAY THE BOND BETWEEN THESE TWO COUNTRIES IS STRONG, THOUGH CHALLENGED AND YET UNBREAKABLE.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, PARTICULARLY IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY EVEN IF IT'S A FRINGE, IS THAT MORE IN TERMS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON AND THE DIVISIONS THERE?

OR DOES THIS SPEAK TO A GREATER ISSUE ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE TWO COUNTRIES?

>> WELL, I DO THINK THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE, ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

NOW, THERE'S A SPLIT WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON THIS.

MEMBERS.

THEY'RE NOT A FRINGE.

THERE ARE ELEMENTS WITHIN THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS THAT I WOULD SUGGEST ARE A FRINGE.

AND IN A SENSE, I THINK PRESIDENT HERZOG WAS TRYING TO GET AT THE DISTINCTION OF CRITICISM OF ISRAELI POLICIES WHICH IS LEGITIMATE, TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO EXIST.

WHAT THEY'RE BASICALLY SAYING IS THE JEWISH PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION.

THE JEWISH PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO A HOMELAND AND THEREFORE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LEGITIMACY OF A JEWISH STATE.

NOW A FRINGE TAKES THAT POSITION.

I THINK THERE IS AMONG PROGRESSIVES IN THE COUNTRY AND CERTAINLY THE YOUNGER DEMOGRAPHIC, THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE QUESTIONING OF ISRAELI POLICIES IN A WAY MAYBE THAT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN BEFORE, AND THEY ARE MORE SYMPATHETIC TO THE PALESTINIANS THAN WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST.

SO YOU HAVE LESS SYMPATHY FOR THE ISRAELI POSITION AND MORE SYMPATHY FOR THE PALESTINIAN POSITION IN A SEGMENT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

I THINK THAT IS NEW.

I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS EVOLVED OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

IN SOME WAYS, IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THOSE WHO ARE MORE TOUGH ON THE ISRAELIS WHEN THERE IS AN ISRAELI GOVERNMENT THAT HAS EXTREME MINISTERS LIKE BEN GA VEER AND SMOET RICH.

THEY SENT A MESSAGE.

WHEN SMOET RICH GETS UP AND SAYS THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, THAT OBVIOUSLY GIVES A LOT OF AMMUNITION.

IT CREATES A LOT OF FUEL FOR THOSE WHO ARE CRITICS NOT JUST OF ISRAEL BUT THOSE WHO ACTUALLY WANT -- BASICALLY WANT TO QUESTION WHETHER ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO EXIST.

WHAT PRESIDENT HERZOG WAS SAYING, CRITICISM IS UNDERSTANDABLE.

IT'S FAIR GAME.

THAT'S A PART OF ANY DEMOCRACY.

LOOK AT ISRAEL, YOU SEE HOW MUCH WE'RE PREPARED TO CRITICIZE OURSELVES.

SO WHEN THERE'S CRITICISM, WE CAN ACCEPT THAT, BUT WHEN YOU SAY WE DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST OR YOU SAY WE DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES, THAT IS WHEN YOU CROSS THE LINE.

THEN IT BECOMES A QUESTION, YOU'RE SAYING THE JEWISH PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO A STATE, THAT REALLY DOES MOVE YOU INTO AN ANTI-SEMITIC POSTURE, NOT JUST A CRITICAL POSITION OF ISRAEL.

>> DENNIS, HANGING OVER ALL OF THIS, SORT OF THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, WAS WHETHER OR NOT WE WOULD SEE AN OFFICIAL INVITATION BY PRESIDENT BIDEN TO PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU FOR A VISIT TO THE UNITED STATES, NAMELY FOR A VISIT TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

I THINK TO SORT OF LOWER THE TEMPERATURE, WE SAW A PHONE CALL BETWEEN THE TWO ON THE EVE OF PRESIDENT HERZOG'S ARRIVAL.

BUT THERE'S STILL SOME DEBATE AS TO THE WORDING AND WHETHER AN OFFICIAL INVITATION WAS OFFERED AND WHAT THAT DEBATE WOULD BE.

IT CENTERED AROUND SOME OF THE TENSIONS BETWEEN THESE TWO ADMINISTRATIONS, PRESIDENT BIDEN TO CNN JUST LAST WEEK SAID THAT THIS WAS THE MOST EXTREME GOVERNMENT HE HAD SEEN IN HIS HISTORY AND IN THE LAST 50 YEARS AND TWO HUGE ISSUES, AS YOU NOTED, HOVER OVER THIS GOVERNMENT AND IN ISRAEL RIGHT NOW.

WE'LL TALK IN A MOMENT ABOUT THE JUDICIAL REFORMS, BUT SPECIFICALLY THE EXTREME FRINGES OF HIS GOVERNMENT THAT ON TOP OF THE RAID, THE RECENT RAID IN JENIN CONTINUED PUSHING FOR SETTLEMENT EXPANSION.

THERE ARE SOME INSIDE OF ISRAEL ITSELF WHO ARE CALLING FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION TO DO MORE AND TO PRESSURE THE NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT MORE.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE RIGHT CALL?

AND HOW WOULD YOU ASSESS HOW PRESIDENT BIDEN IS HANDLING IT?

>> WELL, I THINK HE'S TRYING TO WALK A LINE.

I THINK HE'S TRYING TO STRIKE A BALANCE.

IN A SENSE, WHEN YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL COME AND HE SEES HIM AND THE PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL SPEAKS TO THE ENTIRE CONGRESS, JOINT HOUSES OF CONGRESS, IN A SENSE, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS THERE IS AN EMBRACE OF ISRAEL.

NOW, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING WITH THE PRESIDENT IS HE'S SAYING, LOOK, I AM A -- I AM A BELIEVER IN THE U.S./ISRAELI RELATIONSHIP.

THIS IS THE ONLY PRESIDENT I'M AWARE OF WHO'S EVER REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS A ZIONIST, MEANING THAT HE THINKS THE JEWISH PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO A STATE AND INTUITIVE, INSTINCTIVE EMOTIONAL SUPPORTER OF THAT.

SO ON THE ONE HAND, HE'S CONVEYING THAT MESSAGE.

SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IN ISRAEL, AS SOMEONE WHO IS COMMITTED TO THE U.S. ISRAELI RELATIONSHIP, I UNDERSTAND THAT SHARED VALUES IS A PILLAR OF THAT RELATIONSHIP.

AND IF IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE CARRYING OUT A CHANGE IN THE BALANCE OF INSTITUTIONS IN A WAY THAT WOULD DENY THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY, YOU'RE CALLING INTO QUESTION THOSE SHARED VALUES.

AND I THINK WHAT HE'S SAYING IS, LOOK, I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT YOUR JUDICIAL REFORM SHOULD LOOK LIKE, BUT I AM GOING TO SUGGEST AS A FRIEND THAT THE WAY YOU PRODUCE SOMETHING AS FUNDAMENTAL AS THAT NEEDS TO BE BASED ON BROAD CONSENSUS.

THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN.

THE OTHER PART IS, LOOK, THE POSITION OF HIS ADMINISTRATION IS WE CAN'T PRODUCE TWO STATES BETWEEN ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS TODAY.

YOU LOOK AT THE DYSFUNCTION ON THE PALESTINIAN SIDE, IF YOU ACTUALLY HAD A PALESTINIAN STATE TODAY, IT WOULD BE A FAILED STATE.

THE POLITICS IN ISRAEL MAKE IT DIFFICULT, THE POLITICS ON THE PALESTINIAN SIDE MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE AS WELL, SO YOU GOT TO FOCUS ON WHAT CAN YOU DO.

ONE OF THE THINGS HE'S TRYING TO DO WITH THE ISRAELIS IS DON'T TAKE STEPS THAT MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER HAVE A TWO-STATE OUTCOME.

SO HERE HE'S TRYING TO I THINK STRIKE A BALANCE OF SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL ON THE ONE HAND, BUT ALSO CALLING ATTENTION TO THOSE ISSUES THAT HE THINKS ULTIMATELY THE U.S. ALSO HAS A STAKE IN.

WE HAVE A STAKE AND A STRONG RELATIONSHIP WITH ISRAEL.

WHEN ISRAEL IS PURSUING THIS KIND OF A JUDICIAL PROCESS THAT IS CREATING SUCH TREMENDOUS TURMOIL WITHIN ISRAEL, THAT'S NOT ENHANCING ISRAEL'S STRENGTH, AND THAT'S IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES.

WHEN ISRAEL IS TAKING STEPS THAT HE BELIEVES MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER GET TO TWO STATES, HERE AGAIN HE THINKS THAT'S NOT SERVING ISRAELI INTERESTS, AND IT'S NOT SERVING AMERICAN INTERESTS.

>> YEAH.

>> SO HE'S TRYING TO IN A SENSE MAKE IT CLEAR WE'RE A FRIEND OF ISRAEL, BUT BEING A FRIEND OF ISRAEL, WE ALSO HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPRESS THESE KINDS OF OPINIONS.

>> AT LEAST THE SHORT-TERM OUTLOOK LOOKS BLEAK IN TOERMS OF ANY RESOLUTION ON A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

YOU'RE RIGHT TO SAY THERE IS A VACUUM IN LEADERSHIP ON THE YOU NOTED EARLIER, THESE MEMBERS, EXTREME MEMBERS OF PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT SAYING THINGS LIKE PALESTINIANS SHOULD BE ERASED AND HAVING TO WALK THINGS BACK LIKE THAT OBVIOUSLY AREN'T VERY HELPFUL.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE JUDICIAL REFORMS IN THE FINAL MINUTES THAT WE HAVE.

AS YOU NOTED, WE'VE SEEN NEARLY 30 WEEKS OF PROTESTS.

WE ARE EXPECTING TO HAVE A SECOND AND THIRD READING OF WHAT IS CALLED THE REASONABLE STANDARD, AND THAT'S EXPECTED THIS WEEK.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CONCERNS THAT WE ARE HEADING INTO UNCHARTED TERRITORY IF THIS ACTUALLY PASSES.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT -- AND I KNOW YOU JUST RETURNED FROM THE COUNTRY, TALK ABOUT WHAT THE BIGGEST CONCERNS ARE AMONG ISRAELIS, IF THESE GOES THROUGH?

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN IF THIS -- IF THE REASONABLE STANDARD IS REVOKED, THE COURT TODAY HAS THE ABILITY TO SAY IF THERE'S AN APPOINTMENT THAT BASICALLY STRAINS THE BOUNDS OF CREDIBILITY OR REASONABILITY, MEANING YOU APPOINT SOMEONE TO A POSITION WHO HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CAPABILITY OR SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF CRIMES AND YOU'RE PUTTING THEM IN A MINISTERIAL POSITION, THAT REALLY CROSSES A LINE OF WHAT'S REASONABLE.

AND I THINK THE CONCERN ON THE PART OF THOSE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THIS IS THAT THIS MEANS THAT THERE IS NO BREAK, ANYBODY CAN BE APPOINTED TO ANY POSITION EVEN IF IT MAKES LITTLE SENSE OR EVEN IF THIS IS SOMEONE WHO IS -- HAS A TRACK RECORD OF CORRUPTION.

SO THEY'RE SUGGESTING YOU CAN'T LOSE THAT ABILITY TO CREATE THAT KIND OF A RESTRAINT.

IT DOES SEEM TO ME THAT THERE WERE THOSE EVEN IN NEGOTIATIONS REPRESENTING THE OPPOSITION AT THE PRESIDENT'S HOUSE, BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE OPPOSITION WHO WERE SAYING MAYBE THE CONCEPT OF REASONABLE HAS BEEN APPLIED TO LIBERALLY, TOO ELASTIC, TOO OPEN ENDED SO THERE COULD BE SOME DEFINITION, SOME GROUND RULES, SOME CRITERIA FOR REASONABLENESS.

RIGHT NOW THERE REALLY AREN'T.

SO THE TRUTH IS THERE IS SOME ROOM FOR COMPROMISE ON THAT ISSUE.

THE LEGISLATION THAT'S BEING ADOPTED DOESN'T SEEM TO PROVIDE VERY MUCH ROOM FOR ANY COMPROMISE.

THE QUESTION WILL BE WILL THE SECOND AND THIRD READING GO THROUGH WITHOUT ANY READINESS TO WALK THAT BACK.

WE'RE SEEING THAT MANY MEMBERS OF THE -- MANY MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY, RESERVISTS ARE SAYING THEY'RE NOT GOING TO REPORT -- >> REPORT FOR DUTY, YEAH.

>> -- FOR VOLUNTARY SERVICE IF THIS GOES THROUGH.

THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S REALLY HAVING A PROFOUND EFFECT ON THE MILITARY.

>> YEAH, AS MANY AS 160 RESERVE OFFICERS HAD THREATENED THAT THEY WON'T REPORT FOR DUTY AND EVEN THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER SAID IF THIS GOES THROUGH THE COUNTRY WOULD TURN INTO A DICTATORSHIP.

THESE ARE REALLY STUNNING WORDS.

THIS IS A STORY, OBVIOUSLY, WE WILL BE CONTINUING TO FOLLOW VERY CLOSELY.

DENNIS ROSS, THANK YOU AS ALWAYS FOR YOUR EXPERTISE.

>>> NEXT TO THE MASSIVE MIGRANT FROM SUB SAHARAN AFRICA WHO TRAVELED TO TUNISIA HOPING TO TAKE A BOAT TO EUROPE OFTEN FALL VICTIM TO SMUGGLERS AND HUMAN TRAFFICKERS.

OVER THE WEEKEND LEADERS FROM TUNISIA AND THEIR EUROPEAN UNION SIGNED A HISTORIC DEAL.

EUROPE PLEDGED MORE THAN $1 BILLION IN AID TO THE COUNTRY TO HELP IT DEAL WITH THE MIGRATION CRISIS AS WELL AS A BATTERED ECONOMY.

IT COMES AS TUNISIA FACES INTERNATIONAL CRITICISM OF ITS TREATMENT OF MIGRANT AND ASYLUM SEEKERS.

CORRESPONDENT NADA BASHIR HAS THIS REPORT.

>> Reporter: BEATEN, INJURED AND ABANDONED, THESE ARE JUST SOME OF WHAT HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH ESTIMATES TO BE HUNDREDS OF REFUGEES AND MIGRANTS RECENTLY EXPELLED FROM TUNISIA.

THEY SAY THEY'VE BEEN STRANDED FOR WEEKS IN NO MAN'S LAND.

HERE AT THE COUNTRY'S EASTERN BORDER WITH LIBYA, CLOSELY WATCHED BY ARMED BORDER GUARDS.

MANY ARE WOUNDED.

THEY SAY AT THE HANDS OF THE THEY BEAT ALL THE WOMEN, EVEN THE CHILDREN.

I'VE GOT CHILDREN MYSELF.

THEY WANTED TO HIT MY LITTLE BOY, BUT I PROTECTED HIM.

I TOOK ALL THE BLOWS.

SOME OF THE WOMEN AND BOYS HAVE BROKEN SKULLS.

THEY BEAT EVERYONE.

>> Reporter: IN VIDEOS HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH SHARED WITH CNN, MIGRANTS DESCRIBED THE HORRORS THEY HAVE FACED.

THERE IS NO SHELTER FROM THE SWELTERING DESERT SUN AND NO FOOD.

SOME HAVE EVEN RESORTED TO DRINKING SEA WATER TO SURVIVE.

>> Translator: WE NEED YOUR HELP, PLEASE, WE NEED YOUR HELP.

YOU HAVE TO COME AND HELP US.

THERE ARE BABIES.

WE HAVE NO FOOD.

WE NEED YOUR HELP.

>> Reporter: THE VAST MAJORITY, ACCORDING TO HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, ARE BELIEVED TO BE FROM WEST AFRICA.

THEY SAY THEY WERE ARRESTED IN MASS RAIDS NEAR THE PORT CITY OF FER GUS, THEN BUSSED MORE THAN 300 KILOMETERS TO THE EAST, UNAWARE OF WHERE THEY WERE BEING TAKEN.

NOW MANY OF THEM ARE STILL TRAPPED IN THE MILITARIZED TUNISIA AND LIBYA.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE GOVERNMENT EXPECTS COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN OTHER THAN WHAT IS HAPPENING, WHICH IS PEOPLE WALKING FOR DAYS IN THE DESERT, BEING PUSHED BACK INTO THE FOREST BY BOTH SIDES WITH NOWHERE TO GO AND THEN SOME INDIVIDUALS REPORTEDLY DYING.

>> Reporter: THE CRISIS COMES AS TENSIONS GROW BETWEEN TU KNEE SHAN CITIZENS AND MIGRANTS WITH THE COUNTRY'S PRESIDENT FANNING RACISM AND XENOPHOBIA AGAINST BLACK AFRICANS.

IN FEBRUARY SAEED CLAIMS MIGRANTS FROM SUB SAHARAN AFRICA WOULD CHANGE THE AND BRING VIOLENCE AND CRIME TO THE COUNTRY.

WORDS WHICH FUELED ANTI-IMMIGRANT SENTIMENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUT ALSO SPARKED BACKLASH.

NOW THE PRESIDENT IS INSISTING THAT ALL MIGRANTS ARE TREATED WELL IN TUNISIA.

>> Translator: THE TUNISIAN PEOPLE HAVE PROVIDED THESE MIGRANTS WITH EVERYTHING POSSIBLE, WITH UNLIMITED GENEROSITY.

>> Reporter: COMMENTS MADE AS TUNISIA AND THE EUROPEAN UNION FINALIZED A DEAL WORTH MORE THAN A BILLION U.S.

DOLLARS AIMED AT BOOSTING TRADE RELATIONS AND CRUCIALLY CURBING IRREGULAR MIGRATION ACROSS THE MEDITERRANEAN.

>> AND WE AGREED THAT WE WILL COOPERATE ON BORDER MANAGEMENT -- >> Reporter: THE DEAL IS SET TO COMMIT MORE THAN $100 MILLION TOWARDS SECURING TUNISIA'S BORDERS, SUPPORTING SEARCH AND RESCUE OPERATIONS AND BOLSTERING THE COUNTRY'S ANTISMUGGLING MEASURES.

BUT CRITICS ACCUSE THE EU OF LEGITIMIZING TUNISIA'S HARD LINE TACTICS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO REACH EUROPE'S SHORES FROM AFRICA.

>> THEY HAVE IGNORED THE FACT THAT TUNISIA DOESN'T HAVE ANY INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE OR RESOURCES OR EVEN POLITICAL WILL TO GOVERN MIGRANTS AND ASYLUM SEEKERS ON THEIR TERRITORY.

>> Reporter: ACCORDING TO HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, SOME MIGRANTS ABANDONED AT TUNISIA'S EASTERN BORDER HAVE BEEN RELOCATED.

AUTHORITIES IN NEIGHBORING LIBYA SAY THEY HAVE RESCUED TOZENS OF MIGRANTS FROM THE BOARDER AND ARE PROVIDING THEM WITH URGENT CARE.

BUT THERE REMAINS CONCERN THAT FURTHER EXPULSIONS COULD STILL BE ONGOING WITH MANY STILL BELIEVED TO BE STRANDED AT THE BORDER.

AND AS THE BODIES OF REFUGEES AND MIGRANTS ATTEMPTING TO CROSS THE MEDITERRANEAN CONTINUE TO WASH UP ON TUNISIA'S SHORES, THERE ARE ALSO FEARS THAT OTHERS COULD BE LEFT TO DIE IN THE DESERT.

>> REALLY SOBERING AND IMPORTANT REPORTING THERE FROM NADA BASHIR.

>>> PRESIDENTIAL CLIMATE ENVOY JOHN KERRY IS THE LATEST U.S. OFFICIAL TO VISIT CHINA, HIS MESSAGE, THAT THE CLIMATE CRISIS MUST BE SEPARATED FROM POLITICS.

IT IS ONE OF A HOST OF ISSUES THE WORLD'S TWO LARGEST ECONOMIES HAVE BEEN AT ODDS OVER AND CYBERSECURITY IN PARTICULAR IS BECOMING A BIG PROBLEM.

JUST LAST WEEK IT WAS REPORTED THAT CHINA-BASED HACKERS GAINED ACCESS TO THE EMAIL ACCOUNTS OF SOME 25 U.S.

ORGANIZATIONS, AND IT SEEMS TO BE PART OF A LARGER PATTERN.

JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS IS CHRIS KREBS, THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY.

CHRIS, ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

SO AMONG THOSE ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE NOW KNOW WERE HACKED WERE THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND COMMERCE SECRETARY, AND THE COMMERCE SECRETARY GINA RAIMONDO PERSONALLY ACCORDING TO U.S. OFFICIALS THE BREACHES GAVE THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, QUOTE, INSIGHTS ABOUT THE U.S.

THINKING HEADING INTO SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN'S VISIT.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE TIMING AND THE SPECIFICS OF THESE BREACHES?

>> WELL, AS YOU POINT OUT, THE TIMING OF THIS ALIGNS WITH RECENT VISITS.

AS I LOOK AT THE ACTIVITIES OF THE CHINESE ACTORS, IT SEEMS THAT THEY ARE CONTRACTORS FOR THE MINISTER OF STATE SECURITY, WHICH IS ONE OF THEIR MAIN SECURITY SERVICES, BUT THE TIMING OF IT JUST, IT LINES UP FOR ME AS CLASSIC ESPIONAGE.

IT WAS VERY NARROWLY TARGETED AGAINST DIPLOMATIC AND COMMERCIAL AND ECONOMIC-RELATED ISSUES, POTENTIALLY LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON SANCTIONS, SOME TRADE DEALS, OTHER DIPLOMATIC NEGOTIATIONS.

SO IT DOES SEEM THAT IT WAS VERY NARROWLY TARGETED.

THIS WAS NOT NECESSARILY SOME DISRUPTIVE OR DESTRUCTIVE ATTACK OR A, YOU KNOW, OUT OF BOUNDS OTHERWISE LIKE SOME OF THEIR OTHER ACTIVITIES.

SO IT'S WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT, AND I THINK IT WAS QUITE -- SHOWS A GREAT DEAL OF CAPABILITY ON BEHALF OF THE CHINESE CYBER ACTORS.

>> YEAH, I WAS GOING TO ASK, DO YOU THINK THIS WAS MORE A SIGN OF WEAKNESS AND OVERSIGHT ON THE PART OF THE U.S. AND OF MICROSOFT PERHAPS, OR DO YOU THINK THIS IS A SIGN OF GROWING SOPHISTICATION ON THE PART OF THE CHINESE?

>> IT CERTAINLY SHOWS A GROWING SOPHISTICATION ON BEHALF OF THE CHINESE.

I THINK IT ALSO HIGHLIGHTS OUR INCREASING DEPENDENCE, AT LEAST FROM THE GOVERNMENT, AND SIGNIFICANT CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE PLAYERS ON THIRD-PARTY TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES LIKE MICROSOFT AND GOOGLE AND AMAZON, AND IT ALSO SHOWS THAT AS WE MAKE THIS FULL-FLEDGED SHIFT INTO CLOUD-BASED SERVICES, WHETHER IT'S EMAIL OR OTHER BUSINESS OPERATIONS, THAT THE CLOUD ITSELF IS INCREDIBLY COMPLEX AND THERE'S NOT A GREAT DEAL OF TRANSPARENCY INTO HOW CLOUD IS MANAGED, AND THAT IS ONE OF THE TOP TAKEAWAYS THAT I UNDERSTAND THE U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS IS THE LACK OF TRANSPARENCY INTO HOW THESE CLOUD SYSTEMS ARE MANAGED AND WHAT THE THREAT ACTIVITY IS HAPPENING ON WHAT'S KNOWN AS THE BACK PLAIN OR THE ACTUALLY SYSTEMS THAT THESE TECH COMPANIES MANAGE ON A DAILY BASIS THAT DUE TO THE FOURTH AMENDMENT AND OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS THAT THE INTELLIGENCE SERVICES HERE IN THE U.S.

CANNOT LOOK INTO ON A REGULAR BASIS.

>> SO DO YOU VIEW THAT SOME OF THESE RULES AND LAWS NEED TO BE CHANGED?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS A GREATER DEGREE OF TRANSPARENCY FROM THE TECH COMPANIES, AND THEY'RE WORKING ON THAT, I PARTNERSHIPS, AND JUST THIS MORNING, SISA, THE AGENCY THAT I USED TO RUN IN PARTNERSHIP WITH MICROSOFT, ANNOUNCED THAT THEY ARE GOING TO START MAKING SOME REALLY CRITICAL FORENSIC LOGS AVAILABLE TO LOWER-TIER LICENSES THAT THEY MAKE AVAILABLE TO COMMERCIAL AND GOVERNMENT CLIENTS.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT'S BEEN ASKING FOR FOR QUITE SOME TIME FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, AND IT'S GREAT TO SEE THAT MICROSOFT IS OPENING UP THE ABILITY OF A BROADER RANGE OF ORGANIZATIONS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING ACROSS THEIR NETWORKS TO DETECT ANY SORT OF ANOMALOUS ACTIVITY.

BECAUSE THE REAL TAKEAWAY HERE IS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A BAD DAY.

THERE WILL BE A CYBER EVENT.

THERE WILL BE MORE CYBER EVENTS AT MICROSOFT.

THERE WILL BE MORE CYBER EVENTS IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THE KEY IS TO BE ABLE TO DETECT THEM QUICKLY AND ENSURE THAT EFFECTIVELY THE BLAST RADIUS OR THE AMOUNT OF SYSTEMS AND USERS THAT ARE IMPACTED IS AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE, AND YOU CATCH IT AND YOU KEEP MOVING FORWARD.

>> AND IT'S COMING AS CYBER EXPERTS ARE WARNING OF AN UNPRECEDENTED LEVEL OF ESPIONAGE.

I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FOR YOU FROM JAMES ANDREW LOUIS, WHO IS A CYBERSECURITY EXPERT, AND HERE'S WHAT HE SAID ON THIS FRONT.

>> WE'RE SEEING CHINA EXPLOIT THE DEEP TECHNOLOGICAL INTERCONNECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT UP OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.

IT SOUNDS GRIM, BUT WE ARE IN REALLY WHAT YOU COULD CALL A CYBER CRISIS.

EVERYONE HAS CYBER WAR, CYBER PEARL HARBOR, BUT THE LEVEL OF CHINESE ESPIONAGE HAS EXCEEDED ANYTHING WE SAW IN THE COLD WAR BEFORE, AND THE U.S.

NEEDS TO THINK OF A GOOD WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT.

>> SO DO YOU AGREE WITH WHAT HE JUST WAURND WARNED, AND SHOULD WE BE ALARMED THAT IT APPEARS THAT THE U.S. HAS NOT YET FIGURED OUT AN EFFECTIVE WAY OF DEALING WITH IT?

>> WELL, JIM'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT THE LEVEL OF THREAT ACTIVITY, PARTICULARLY OUT OF THE THREAT INTELLIGENCE COMPANY MANDIANT ISSUED A REPORT EARLIER THIS WEEK THAT TALKED ABOUT THIS GROWING SOPHISTICATION OF CHINESE ACTORS.

WHAT THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS DOING IS THEY'RE USING THEIR SYSTEM OF LAWS TO IMPROVE THEIR CAPABILITIES.

IT'S KIND OF A BANK SHOT TO IMPROVE THEIR CAPABILITIES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'VE DONE IS INTRODUCED A VULNERABILITY DISCLOSURE LAW THAT SAYS THAT ANY CHINESE SECURITY RESEARCHERS OR BUG BOUNTY HUNTERS OR HACKERS THAT JUST GO OUT THERE AND TRY TO BEAT UP ON SYSTEMS AND FIND FLAWS, UNDER CHINESE LAWS, THESE CHINESE RESEARCHERS HAVE TO REPORT THAT VULNERABILITY TO THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT BEFORE NOTIFYING THE VENDOR OR THE OPERATOR OF THAT SYSTEM.

AND WHAT THAT DOES IS IT GIVES THE SECURITY SERVICES IN CHINA AN ADVANTAGE.

THEY CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE VULNERABILITIES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN SEEN BEFORE AND DO NOT HAVE FIGURE OUT HOW TO EXPLOIT THEM.

AND IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED HERE WITH THE MICROSOFT HACK LAST WEEK.

BUT ANY WAY YOU CUT IT, THE STATISTICS SUPPORT THAT WHAT'S KNOWN AS A ZERO DAY ATTACK OR A ZERO DAY EXPLOIT, WHICH TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THOSE UNKNOWN VULNERABILITIES ARE ON THE RISE, AND THE CHINESE HAVE INCREASED THE USE OF THOSE OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

AND THE -- YOU KNOW, THE TAKEAWAY HERE IS THAT THAT VULNERABILITY DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENT BY THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS INCREASING THEIR CAPABILITIES.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO KEEP AN EYE ON, OBVIOUSLY.

FROM THE U.S. GOVERNMENT PERSPECTIVE, I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS CONTINUE WORKING WITH OUR PRIVATE SECTOR PARTNERS, THE TECHNOLOGY PROVIDERS, AND ENSURE THAT THEY ARE BEING -- THEY'RE TAKING THE APPROPRIATE SECURITY MEASURES TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES AND IF THEY -- IF THEY UNDERPERFORM HERE EFFECTIVELY THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME SORT OF RECOURSE, AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND THE RECENT NATIONAL CYBERSTRATEGY IS TAKING A HARD LOOK AT SOFTWARE LIABILITY, SOFTWARE LIABILITY IS NOT A THING THAT'S REALLY EXISTED WHERE YOU CAN HOLD THESE SOFTWARE PROVIDERS LIABLE FOR SOME SORT OF PREVIOUS FLAW, BUT THE GOVERNMENT'S TAKEN A HARDER LOOK AT THAT NOW AND LIKELY WILL HAVE SOME SORT OF FRAMEWORK COMING OUT IN THE COMING NEXT YEAR OR SO THAT WILL LAY OUT A PATH FORWARD THAT YOU COULD HOLD SOME SOFTWARE COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY'RE NOT TAKING THE APPROPRIATE STEPS TO SECURE THEIR OFFERINGS.

>> WE KNOW THE U.S. WOULD BE FORTUNATE IF IT WAS ONLY CHINA THAT THEY WERE FOCUSED ON.

OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE THREATS COMING FROM RUSSIA, IRAN, FROM NORTH KOREA.

HOW DID THE RECENT SPATE OF ATTACKS FROM CHINA COMPARE TO WHAT WE SAW WITH THE SOLARWINDS ATTACKS IN 2019 AND 2020 FROM RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE.

>> WELL, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SIMILARITIES FOR SURE.

ONE OF THEM IS THAT IT IS A CREDENTIAL OR AUTHENTICATION-BASED ATTACK, AND THAT'S WHAT I SAW LAST WEEK WITH THIS CHINESE HACK THAT IT'S THE SAME OR A SIMILAR SORT OF USING A TOKEN TO BE ABLE TO AUTHORIZE ACCESS TO COUNTS THAT YOU SHOULDN'T OTHERWISE HAVE ACCESS TO.

BUT WHAT IT ALSO SHOWS IS THAT THESE SOPHISTICATED ACTORS, WHETHER THEY'RE RUSSIA OR CHINA ARE STARTING TO TARGET SOME OF THE KIND OF AGGREGATION POINTS OR CONCENTRATED RISK POINTS IN INTERNET AND TECHNOLOGY PROVIDED SERVICES.

SO RATHER THAN KNOCKING ON THE FRONT DOOR OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND TRYING TO HACK DIRECTLY IN, THEY CAN GO TO THAT POINT OF AGGREGATION OR A SERVICE PROVIDER AND KIND OF TUNNEL UP, BUT NOT JUST HIT ONE AGENCY OR ORGANIZATION, THEY CAN HIT MULTIPLE ORGANIZATIONS WITH THE SAME TECHNIQUE.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE HAVE TO EXPECT WILL INCREASE GOING FORWARD.

BUT TO YOUR EARLIER POINT ABOUT HOW IT'S NOT JUST RUSSIA AND IT'S NOT JUST CHINA, AS I SEE IT OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT THREE TO FOUR YEARS, JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTRY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WILL DEVELOP SOME SORT OF OFFENSIVE CYBERCAPABILITY BECAUSE THE BARRIERS TO ENTRY AND THE THRESHOLDS TO DEVELOPING CAPABILITIES ARE RADICALLY DROPPING ON A REGULAR BASIS.

AND EVEN WITH THE ADVENT OF THINGS LIKE GENERATIVE AI, IT IS GOING TO HELP PREVIOUSLY LOCKED OUT BAD ACTORS THE ABILITY TO BE MORE EFFICIENT, MORE PRODUCTIVE, AND FASTER.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO USE THOSE SAME TOOLS, GENERATIVE AI, TO IMPROVE OUR CYBER DEFENSES, SO IT REALLY DOES BECOME A BIT OF AN ARMS RACE HERE.

>> ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IN PARTICULAR HAS ENOUGH TECHNOLOGY AND INSIGHTS TO DEAL WITH THE WIDELY EXPANDING INDUSTRY OF AI AND QUICKLY EVOLVING ON THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE OF CYBERSECURITY?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, JIM TALKED ABOUT A -- JIM LEWIS TALKED ABOUT A CYBER PEARL HARBOR, A CYBER 9/11, WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT THESE SORTS OF CATASTROPHIC EVENTS NOW FOR 20, 30 YEARS, AND YET WE HAVEN'T SEEN ONE.

SO THAT TELLS ME SOMETHING IS WORKING, AT LEAST UP TO DATE.

AND I THINK WHAT WE SAW CERTAINLY IN UKRAINE WITH THE RESILIENCE AND PREPARING FOR THAT BAD DAY REALLY DOES PUT YOU IN A POSITION TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A PUNCH AND KEEP MOVING FORWARD.

SPECIFIC TO CYBER, SPECIFIC TO AI-RELATED CYBER ACTIVITIES, I KNOW BASED ON CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD OUT HERE IN ASPEN AT THE ASPEN SECURITY FORUM AND WITH SOME OF MY GOVERNMENT PARTNERS, THAT THIS IS A TOP PRIORITY THAT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AND THE OPERATIONAL AGENCIES ARE WORKING ON A REGULAR BASIS WITH THE AI MODEL, THE FOUNDATIONAL MODEL DEVELOPERS, AND SOME OF THE TOOLS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR SYSTEMS ARE PROTECTED, THAT THEY SEE THE THREATS INCOMING AND THEY'RE ABLE TO DEFEND AGAINST THEM.

SO I THINK WE'RE AS BEST POSITIONED AS, FRANKLY, ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

BUT THIS REALLY DOES CONTINUE TO BE ARE WE INTEGRATING THESE TECHNOLOGIES IN A RESPONSIBLE, THOUGHTFUL WAY, AND THAT WE'RE ANTICIPATING THE VERY SORTS OF RISKS THAT WE'RE INTRODUCING INTO OUR ORGANIZATION AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE WE'RE GOING TO SEE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT EVENTS OR INCIDENTS AS COMPANIES RACE TO SBE GRACE AI INTO THEIR PRODUCTS, THEIR BUSINESS PROCESSES, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SLIP UP AND THERE ARE GOING TO BE DATA BREACHES AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY SPILLS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

>> CHRIS, YOU'RE ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO CAN CLAIM THAT YOU GOT FIRED FOR DOING YOUR JOB ASK AND DOING IT VERY WELL AS THE HEADS OF SIS IS A AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TOP OFFICIAL .

YOU FAMTSLY DECLARED THAT THE 2020 ELECTION WAS THE MOST SECURE IN HISTORY.

YOU WERE SUBSEQUENTLY FIRED FOR THAT.

THERE ARE LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS CONTINUING RIGHT NOW THAT WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK ON FOR ANOTHER DAY TO TALK ABOUT.

LOOKING AHEAD TO 2024, HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU THAT THAT ELECTION WILL BE JUST AS SECURE, IF NOT MORE THAN 2020?

>> I WAS ASKED THIS QUESTION A FEW DAYS AGO AND THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENED IN THAT INTERVIEW JUST HAPPENED, THE HAIR ON MY NECK STANDS UP A LITTLE BIT.

AS I THINK ABOUT THE THREAT ACTORS THAT WE HAD TO DEAL WITH AND WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT IN 2020 AND IT'S THE SAME OLD AND A HANDFUL OF OTHERS, I THINK THEIR MOTIVATIONS HAVE SHIFTED DRAMATICALLY SINCE 2020.

BACK THEN I THINK THE RUSSIANS AND THE CHINESE WERE PROBABLY HAPPY TO JUST KIND OF LET THE ELECTION PLAY OUT, THAT WE WERE GOING TO TEAR EACH OTHER APART AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD JUST SIT THERE AND WATCH FROM THE SIDELINES.

THIS TIME AROUND, I THINK THEIR MOTIVATIONS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT.

I THINK AS YOU LOOK AT WHAT RUSSIA IS ATTEMPTING TO ACCOMPLISH IN UKRAINE AND THAT WE CONTINUE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT TO THE UKRAINIANS AND THAT SEES BATTLEFIELD DEFEATS BY THE RUSSIANS, I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE THAT PUTIN MAY CHANGE HIS CALCULUS A LITTLE BIT AND ACTUALLY TRY TO INFLUENCE AND INTERFERE IN THE 2024 ELECTION.

SAME GOES WITH CHINA.

LAST NIGHT IN ONE OF THE OPENING SESSIONS, ADMIRAL ACKLEY KNOW FROM INDOE PAY COM WAS TALKING ABOUT PREPARING FOR A RUSSIAN OR A CHINESE INVASION OF TAIWAN.

IF PRESIDENT XI HAS ORDERED HIS 2027, THEN WE NEED TO BE READY FOR IT NOW.

AND PART OF MY CALCULUS OR MY THINKING IS ONE WAY TO UNDERMINE OUR PREPARATION TO HELP DEFEND TAIWAN IS TO THROW OUR POLITICAL APPARATUS INTO TOTAL CHAOS SO THAT WE'RE MORE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.

SO I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME MOTIVATIONS FROM CHINA AND RUSSIA AND OTHERS THAT WILL COPY PRIOR PLAYBOOKS AND MESS AROUND IN THE 2024 ELECTION.

NOT TO MENTION DOMESTIC ACTORS THAT MAY GET INVOLVED AND MOVE TO THE LEFT OR MOVE EARLIER IN THE ELECTION TO DISRUPT THE PROCESS.

>> ALARMING WARNINGS, BUT I GUESS IT IS SOMEWHAT REASSURING WHEN YOU SAY THAT THE EXPERTS ARE ON TOP OF THIS AND PREPARED FOR ANYTHING.

CHRIS KREBS, ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE YOU.

THANKS AGAIN.

>> THANKS, BIANNA.

GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>>> WELL, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY JANET YELLEN IS REJECTING RECESSION FEARS POINTING TO THE STRONG LABOR MARKET AND EASING INFLATION.

PRISCILLA SIMS BROWN IS THE CEO OF AMALGAMATED BANK, ONE OF THE ONLY UNIONIZED BANKS IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND SHE JOINED WALTER ISAACSON SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE AND THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA, AND PRISCILLA BROWN, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> WE'VE BEEN SPENDING THIS PAST FEW MONTHS WORRYING ABOUT A RECESSION, ABOUT HARD LANDINGS, EVERYTHING ELSE, AND LAST WEEK WE GOT SOME GREAT ECONOMIC NEWS.

INFLATION IS PRETTY FAR DOWN.

UNEMPLOYMENT IS DOWN.

AS SOMEBODY WHO RUNS A GREAT COMMUNITY BANK, DO YOU THINK WE'RE IN FOR A SOFT LANDING IN A SAFE ECONOMY NOW?

>> WELL, I WON'T HAZARD A GUESS, WALTER.

MANY HAVE DONE IT.

BUT I WILL SAY THAT THE INDICATORS ARE GOOD, NOT ONLY THOSE THAT YOU REFERENCED BUT ALSO ANECDOTALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH OUR OWN CUSTOMERS.

>> WHAT ARE YOU SEEING WITH YOUR OWN CUSTOMERS?

HOW ARE DEPOSITS GOING?

>> GOZS ARE GOING WELL.

QUARTER, WHICH IN THIS ENVIRONMENT IS A GOOD THING.

WE'RE ALSO SEEING REAL ENCOURAGEMENT AMONG OUR OWN KMURZ, A LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE THAT GIVES ME HOPE.

>> DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE THE CONFIDENCE TO TAKE OUT LOANS, START BUSINESSES, GROW AGAIN?

>> YES, I DO.

I THINK IN THE CASE OF OUR CUSTOMERS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGE MAKERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING GOOD IN THE WORLD, AND WHETHER THAT BE RELATED TO CLIMATE OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THESE ARE THINGS -- THESE ARE PROJECTS THAT ARE REALLY CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO OUR SOCIETY AND OUR CUSTOMERS ARE AS ENTHUSIASTIC AS EVER ABOUT GETTING THOSE THINGS DONE.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMERS BEING CHANGE MAKERS, DOING GOOD, DOING GREAT PROJECTS.

YOU'RE A 100-YEAR-OLD BANK, AND YET YOU'RE A BANK WITH A PURPOSE.

IN FACT, YOU'RE A BANKER WITH A PURPOSE.

I'VE FOLLOWED YOUR CAREER.

TELL ME WHY AMALGAMATED'S DIFFERENT.

>> WELL, I'M GLAD YOU ASKED.

IT'S AN EXCITING STORY.

YOU'RE RIGHT, AMALGAMATED WAS STARTED BY A GROUP OF CLOTHING THEY COULDN'T BE BANKED SO THEY DECIDED TO START THEIR OWN BANK, AND THAT WAS 100 YEARS AGO.

AND FOR THAT LONG WE'VE CONTINUED TO CARE A LOT ABOUT WORKERS' RIGHTS, BUT WE ALSO CARE ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE PUT IN VULNERABLE POSITIONS.

AND SO WE THINK ABOUT SOCIETY AND WHAT'S BEST, AND AS A BANK, WHERE IT'S APPROPRIATE AS A BANK, WE GET INVOLVED.

>> AND BY GETTING INVOLVED, WHAT TO YOU MEAN BESIDES TRADITIONAL BANKING ACTIVITIES?

>> WELL, WE ALSO THINK ABOUT THOSE THING THAT THE FINANCIAL SERVICES INDUSTRY SHOULD AND CAN DO TO ALLEVIATE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD, AND SO THAT STARTED FOR US WITH CLIMATE.

WE'VE DONE QUITE A LOT OF WORK, A THIRD OF OUR LENDING IS CLIMATE-RELATED OR SUSTAINABILITY RELATED.

WE GO FROM THAT TO MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN SETTING THE STANDARDS BY WHICH FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS REPORT THEIR ACTIVITY, THEIR PATH TO NET ZERO.

WE'VE DONE SOMETHING SIMILAR IN TERMS OF GETTING INVOLVED IN SORT OF PUNCHING ABOVE OUR WEIGHT AS RELATES TO THINGS LIKE WOMEN HAVING ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE, AS RELATES TO ELIMINATING THE USE OF FINANCIAL SYSTEMS FOR GUN CRIMES AND OTHER CRIMES.

THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WE THINK ARE APPROPRIATE FOR A BANK TO DO AND WE GET INVOLVED.

>> SO YOU SAY YOU GET INVOLVED IN ALL THESE THINGS, REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, GUNS, EVERYTHING ELSE.

TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A HIT ON OUR BOTTOM LINE OR THE AMOUNT OF INTEREST RATES WE PAY?

>> WELL, LOOK, YOU KNOW, FOR US THE STORY IS A PRETTY GOOD ONE.

100 YEARS AGO THIS WAS AN EXPERIMENT IN HOW BANKING COULD BE DONE WELL, HOW YOU COULD DO GOOD AND DO WELL.

NOW 100 YEARS LATER, WE THINK THE EXPERIMENT IS PROVEN, AND IT'S PROVEN FOR US IN OUR EARNINGS GROWTH AS A BANK, SO WHAT WE DO FOR SHAREHOLDERS, BUT ALSO AS A B CORP., WE CARE AS MUCH ABOUT WHAT WE DO FOR OTHER STAKE STAKEHOLDERS.

AND SO WE SEE THE SUCCESS OF THE STRATEGY IN THE PROGRESS THAT OUR STAKEHOLDERS MAKE, INCLUDING ALL OF OUR CUSTOMERS.

>> BUT DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO THE FACT THAT YOU'RE DOING GOOD AND THEY WANT TO BE IN AMALGAMATED FOR THAT REASON?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

OUR CUSTOMERS TELL US THEY LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THEIR MONEY SLEEPS AT NIGHT, AND IT'S -- THEY'RE HAPPY TO KNOW THAT IT'S SLEEPING IN GOOD PLACES.

THEY DON'T -- AGAIN, THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT'S AGAINST THEIR VALUES.

THIS IS AIDED BY THE FACT THAT WE ARE SO TRANSPARENT.

AND ACTUALLY, WALTER, I MEAN, IN THAT WAY WE ARE ALSO -- WE ALSO ENJOY A LUXURY THAT MANY INSTITUTIONS DON'T HAVE.

WE DON'T GET AS CONCERNED AS OTHERS MAY ABOUT ANY FORM OF MAL CONTENT AMONG CUSTOMERS BECAUSE WE ARE SO TRANSPARENT.

>> THERE'S A GREAT BOOK BY MATTHEW DESMOND CALLED POVERTY BY AMERICA.

I LEARNED THINGS IN IT THAT STRUCK ME IS THAT BLACK OR HISPANIC FAMILIES ARE FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE UNBANKED.

WHAT DO YOU -- I KNOW THAT'S PART OF THE MISSION OF AMALGAMATED BANK, TO FIGHT RACIAL INJUSTICE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN THAT REGARD?

>> I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I THINK IT IS INCUMBENT UPON US IN THE BANKING INDUSTRY TO BE FOCUSED ON THE WEALTH GAP, AND THAT WEALTH GAP FOR BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IS WAY TOO HUGE.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF BANKS DOING A LOT ABOUT IT.

WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS A SERIES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH CHANGE MAKERS IN THIS SPACE AND WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE AFFECTED BY THIS SPACE, TO TRY FIND WHERE'S THE WHITE SPACE?

WHAT ISN'T BEING ADDRESSED?

WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THE INSTITUTIONAL PROCESSES WE'VE HAD IN PLACE FOR A LONG TIME, WHILE PERHAPS NOT INTENDING TO BE, ARE CERTAINLY DISCRIMINATORY, AND WE ARE HAVING A DISCRIMINATORY EFFECT, I SHOULD SAY.

SO WE WANT TO ADDRESS THAT.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS, FRANKLY, THAT WE ARE REPORTING THIS WEEK VERY STRONG EARNINGS AND WE'RE REPORTING GREAT SUCCESS IS THROUGH THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING WITH UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES, WHETHER THOSE BE PEOPLE SERVING THIS POPULATION OR WHETHER IT'S THE POPULATION ITSELF.

ONE EXAMPLE OF THAT IS SOME OF THE INVESTING WE'VE DONE WITH FUNDS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY SET ASIDE FOR BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES AND FOR ENTREPRENEURS IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.

ANOTHER THING THAT WE THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT IS YOU'VE SEEN A NUMBER OF LARGER BANKS AND OTHER ASSET MANAGERS SETTING ASIDE SPECIFIC PROGRAMS TO ENABLE THOSE WHO ARE COMING INTO THE WORK FORCE TO HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL.

WE THINK ACCESS TO CAPITAL, BOTH THAT INITIAL POINT WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO BUY YOUR FIRST HOME, AND AT THAT SECOND POINT WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO EXPAND YOUR BUSINESS.

YOU'VE SEEN SUCCESS IN YOUR BUSINESS IN A LIMITED WAY.

YOU HAVE LOTS OF DEMANDS.

YOU WANT TO EXPAND IT.

YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

WE'RE LOOKING AT SOLUTIONS TO THAT PROBLEM.

>> LET ME READ YOU A STATISTIC I FIND INTERESTING, WHICH IS THAT RESEARCH SHOWS THAT AMERICANS IN 2021 WERE CHARGED $11 BILLION OVERDRAFT FEES, AND 9% OF ACCOUNT HOLDERS PAY 84% OF THOSE FEES, AND THOSE ARE CUSTOMERS WHO USUALLY HAVE BALANCES OF LESS THAN $350.

THAT FEELS LIKE A TAX ON THE POOR.

YOU KNOW, HOW CAN BANKS MAKE BEING POOR WHEN YOU GO TO A BANK AND THAT THE POOR DON'T GET EXPLOITED?

>> LOOK, I THINK THERE'S A LOT IN THAT ANSWER.

ONE IS WE HAVE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE IN THE WAY THEY'RE USING THESE ACCOUNTS.

IT'S A TRAVESTY IF THE FEES YOU'RE BEING CHARGED ON AN ACCOUNT ARE MULTIPLES OF THE BALANCE IN YOUR ACCOUNT.

THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE USING THIS ACCOUNT AS A WAY OF GETTING A PAYDAY LOAN ESSENTIALLY.

YOU'RE TAKING THE MONEY OUT KNOWING IN MANY CASES, AND WE DO SEE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO THIS AN EXCESSIVE NUMBER OF TIMES.

SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THEY NEED ACCESS TO FUNDS RIGHT AWAY.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANOTHER ACCESS SO THEY KNOWINGLY WILL CREATE A SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE GETTING A FEE FOR THE USE OF THAT MONEY, RIGHT?

AND THAT HAS TO STOP.

WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE BECAUSE WHETHER YOU TAKE THE FEE AWAY OR NOT, THEY ARE STILL NOT MANAGING VERY WELL.

AND WE HAVE TO PROVIDE EDUCATION TO ASSIST IN THAT.

WE IT THAT NOT ONLY DIRECTLY, BUT WE DO IT INDIRECTLY BY SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE PROVIDING THAT KIND OF INFORMATION AND EDUCATION AND LITERACY, FINANCIAL LITERACY TO CUSTOMERS.

THAT'S WHERE IT STARTS.

IT ALSO HAS TO CONTINUE THROUGH TO OUR POLICIES AND PRACTICES ON HOW WE CHARGE FEES AND RECOGNIZING THE PROBLEM AND COMMUNICATING WITH CUSTOMERS.

THIS IS ANOTHER REASON WHY COMMUNITY BANKS ARE SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY CUSTOMERS, AND THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE WHERE THEY SEE THERE ARE ISSUES.

>> YOU SAY THAT CUSTOMERS LOVE THE FACT THE MONEY'S SLEEPING IN A GOOD PLACE.

ALSO I ASSUME IT'S NOT SLEEPING IN BAD PLACES.

LET ME TAKE AN EXAMPLE, THEY MAY NOT LIKE MONEY GOING TO GUN MANUFACTURERS OR GUN TRANSACTIONS.

TELL ME WHAT YOU DO IN THAT REGARD.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING.

I LIKE ALMOST EVERY AMERICAN, I OWNERS AS FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS AND EVEN IN MY OWN HOME, AND SO WE DON'T TAKE A POSITION AROUND WHETHER OR NOT A GUN OWNER SHOULD BE A GUN OWNER.

WE THINK THAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS IMPORTANT.

WHAT WE DO, THOUGH, IS WE DO WANT TO SEE THE ERADICATION OF USING FINANCIAL SERVICES SYSTEMS TO COMMIT GUN CRIMES.

THAT'S THE DISTINCTION WE MAKE, AND AGAIN, WE THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT SWIM LANE FOR A BANK.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY IN THAT -- IN FACT, IT CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE AROUND THE WORLD -- IN THAT ILLEGAL ACTIVITY USING CREDIT CARDS FOR THE PURPOSE OF BUYING GUNS TO DO SOMETHING WRONG IS HARD TO IDENTIFY.

IT'S HARD FOR US TO REPORT THE SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY TO AUTHORITIES, AND SO WE'VE TAKEN IT UPON OURSELVES TO TRY TO >> IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, WE'VE SEEN THE EARNINGS REPORTS FROM THE BIG BANKS.

THEY ALL CAME OUT IN THE PAST WEEK.

THEY DID A LITTLE BIT BETTER, I THINK, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAN EXPECTATIONS.

IT LOOKED PRETTY GOOD FOR THE BIG BANKS.

OVER THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO, WE'RE GOING TO SEE COMMUNITY BANKS REPORTING.

IS THAT A TREND THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE, OR IS THIS SOMETHING SPECIAL TO THE BIG BANKS THIS QUARTER?

>> WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD -- IT'S HARD FOR ME TO ANSWER THAT DIRECTLY, BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT WE AS A -- WE'RE A BANK THAT'S IN FOUR MAJOR CITIES, SO WE'RE CONSIDERED NATIONAL.

BUT WE DO WORK ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND WE CARE A LOT ABOUT THE SMALLER BANKS, THE COMMUNITY BANKS THAT WE ALSO LIKE TO SUPPORT.

WE THINK THAT THEY SERVE A VERY IMPORTANT PURPOSE ON MAIN STREET IN AMERICA.

THIS IS THE BANK THAT SUPPORTS THE ENTREPRENEURS, THE LOCAL ENTREPRENEURS, AND KNOWS THEM VERY WELL.

AND I THINK WHETHER YOU ARE A WE'RE 125th BANK OUT OF 4,000, WHETHER YOU'RE US, WHETHER YOU'RE SMALLER, OR WHETHER YOU'RE LARGER, WE NEED THIS ECOSYSTEM FINANCING ORGANIZATIONS TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN THE ECONOMY IN IMPORTANT WAYS, AND SO WE CERTAINLY HOPE TO SEE VERY GOOD RESULTS COMING OUT OF THE COMMUNITY BANKS THAT WILL REPORT.

YOU'RE RIGHT, IT SORT OF GOES IN ORDER OF SIZE.

YOU'VE SEEN SOME OF THE BIG BANKS REPORT.

YOU'LL SEE US AND OTHERS REPORTING NOW, AND THEN YOU'LL SEE THE SMALLER BANKS REPORTING.

>> THIS SPRING SILICON VALLEY BANK, FIRST REPUBLIC BANK FAILURES, PEOPLE WERE WORRIED THAT THIS WAS GOING TO HURT MID-SIZED BANKS AND COMMUNITY BANKS.

THINGS HAVE THEY STABILIZED?

IT SEEMS THEY HAVE.

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO REALIZE IS THAT THIS REALLY IS NOT ABOUT EQUATING OF SILICON VALLEY BANK, YOU HAVE A FAIRLY LARGE BANK THAT WAS AFFECTED, 200 BILLION.

THAT'S NOT A SMALL BANK.

AND YET I THINK INITIALLY, THE INITIAL REACTIONS WERE THAT FLIGHT QUALITY MEANT FLIGHT TO SIZE.

WHAT PEOPLE HAVE COME TO REALIZE I THINK IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS THAT PASSED IS THAT ACTUALLY, WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT BANKS ARE ACTING RESPONSIBLY.

THAT THEY'RE MAKING PRUDENT DECISIONS TO PROTECT THEIR POLICY -- I'M SORRY, THEIR SHAREHOLDERS AND THEIR CUSTOMERS, AND SO THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS STARTING TO BE REFLECTED IN THE RESULTS THAT YOU'RE SEEING FROM BANKS.

>> WE HEARD SENATOR WARREN SAY RIGHT -- SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN SAY AFTER THE PROBLEMS WITH SILICON VALLEY BANK AND OTHERS THAT IT HAPPENED BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH CORRECT REGULATIONS ON MID-SIZE, SMALLER, AND COMMUNITY BANKS.

IS SHE RIGHT?

ARE THERE MORE REGULATIONS -- YOU'RE A MID-SIZED BANK SO YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THOSE TWO THINGS.

DO YOU THINK THE REGULATORY REGIME IS CORRECT AT THE MOMENT?

IF NOT, HOW WOULD YOU FIX IT?

>> LOOK, I THINK THE PROCESS OF REGULATING FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS IS ALWAYS A DYNAMIC PROCESS.

THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE CHANGES IN THE ECONOMY AND CHANGES ALL AROUND US THAT WILL AFFECT WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO DO FROM A REGULATORY PERSPECTIVE.

WHETHER THAT BE ESOTERIC, NEW INSTRUMENTS COMING INTO THE MARKETPLACE, WHICH BANKS HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN, WHETHER THAT BE ECONOMIC FORCES BOTH U.S. AND GLOBAL AFFECTING THE PROGRESS OF A BANK TOWARD ITS OWN ASPIRATIONS AROUND RISK AND GROWTH, THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING ALL THE TIME, AND I CAN ONLY TELL YOU THAT WE ARE REGULATED BY FOUR ENTITIES AND ALL FOUR OF THEM ARE QUITE HOW TO ADJUST TO THESE DYNAMIC CHANGES.

>> LET ME ASK YOU A PERSONAL QUESTION.

YOUR FAMILY IS FROM ETHIOPIA, I THINK FROM WHAT I'VE READ, YOU GREW UP ON MILITARY, U.S. MILITARY BASES IN GERMANY.

YOU REALLY DIDN'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN THE UNITED STATES OR COME UNTIL YOU WERE ABOUT AGE 14, AND YOU SAID THAT'S WHEN YOU EXPERIENCED RACISM FOR THE FIRST TIME.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT AND HOW THAT'S AFFECTED YOUR CAREER.

>> ACTUALLY, THE FIRST TIME I UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS RACISM WAS WHEN I WAS COMING TO THE U.S. FOR SUMMERS, AND I CAME WHEN I WAS 9 YEARS OLD, AND JUST HAD AN EXPERIENCE WHERE SOMEONE REACTED TO ME BECAUSE OF MY RACE.

HOW DOES THAT COLOR MY EXPERIENCE?

LOOK, I THINK -- I THINK WE'RE ALL ACUTELY AWARE OF WHO WE ARE, AND WE BRING OUR IDENTITY INTO EVERYTHING THAT WE DO.

THE WAY IT HAS COLORED ME IS THAT I UNDERSTAND THAT RACE AND OTHER ARTIFICIAL SYMBOLS THAT WE CARRY AND AND ARE THERE FOR US DON'T TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

AND IT DOESN'T TELL MY FULL STORY, AND I KNOW IT DOESN'T TELL YOUR FULL STORY, SO MY JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT IN THE ROLE THAT I PLAY EVERY DAY, I'M LOOKING BEYOND THESE THINGS THAT ARE ARTIFICIAL, AND IT CAN BE RACE.

IT CAN BE AGE.

IT CAN BE GENDER, OR IT COULD JUST SIMPLY BE THE STYLE OF SOMEONE'S COMMUNICATION.

SO THAT'S MY JOB.

MY JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M GETTING PAST THOSE AND TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER TO TALK THROUGH ISSUES WITH VERY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

IT'S ALSO COLORED THE WAY I SHOW UP.

I MAKE IT A POINT TO SHOW UP JUST AS I AM.

I MAKE IT A POINT TO TALK THE WAY I TALK, TO CORRECT MYSELF WHEN I FIND MYSELF BEING A BIT OTHERS.

I ALSO THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHERE THESE ISSUE HAVE IMPACTED ME AND HAVE IMPACTED OTHERS OR WHERE I CAN CALL IT OUT WHERE I SEE IT HAPPENING.

>> PRISCILLA BROWN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, WALTER.

>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING PAN "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" ON PBS, JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.