♪♪ >> BRAUDE: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON:" YEARS.

YEARS.

YEARS.

THAT'S HOW LONG THE THREE FOUNDERS OF THE EXONEREE NETWORK SPENT IN PRISON FOR WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS.

95 YEARS IN TOTAL.

NOW THEY'RE WORKING TO SUPPORT OTHERS WHO WIN RELEASE INTO A WORLD THEY'D BEEN SEPARATED FROM FOUR DECADES.

TWO OF THEM, SEAN ELLIS AND VICTOR ROSARIO, JOIN ME, AHEAD.

THEN, LATER, "BOSTON GLOBE" TRAVEL WRITER CHRIS MUTHER AND FOOD CRITIC DEVRA FIRST HAVE TEAMED UP TO TAKE ON ALL FOUR PARTS OF THE CAPE.

YES, THERE ARE FOUR DISTINCT PARTS, APPARENTLY!

AND THEY JOIN ME TO SHARE THE BEST, WORST AND MOST INTERESTING PARTS OF THEM ALL.

♪♪ >> BRAUDE: WHEN DEFENSE ATTORNEY ROSEMARY SCAPICCHIO JOINED ME YESTERDAY TO TALK ABOUT SHAWN DRUMGOLD-- THE CLIENT SHE HELPED FREE AFTER 14 YEARS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT, WHO DIED LAST WEEK, AT THE AGE OF 57-- SHE MENTIONED A PROGRAM FOR EXONEREES THAT SHE WISHED HAD BEEN AROUND WHEN DRUMGOLD FIRST GOT OUT: >> SHAWN COULD HAVE BENEFITED FROM THE EXONEREE NETWORK, WHICH I'M SO SAD THAT HE DIDN'T GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO.

WHAT THE EXONEREE NETWORK DOES IS TRY TO PROVIDE A SUPPORT SYSTEM, A SYSTEM OF EMPOWERMENT FOR PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN RELEASED AFTER SERVING WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS.

>> BRAUDE: THE EXONEREE NETWORK WAS FOUNDED IN 2020 BY THREE MEN WHO EACH SPENT DECADES IN PRISON BEFORE THEIR WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS WERE OVERTURNED.

ONE OF THEM WAS SEAN ELLIS, WHOSE STORY WAS TOLD IN THE NETFLIX DOCUSERIES ABOUT HIM, CALLED, "TRIAL 4."

HE WAS JUST 19 WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED FOR THE 1993 MURDER OF POLICE DETECTIVE JOHN MULLIGAN.

HIS FIRST TWO TRIALS ENDED IN HUNG JURIES, BUT HE WAS CONVICTED IN A THIRD.

THEN, YEARS LATER, BOSTON POLICE DETECTIVES WHO WERE PIVOTAL TO THAT CONVICTION PLED GUILTY TO CORRUPTION CHARGES, CASTING DOUBTS ON EVIDENCE THEY FOUND.

IN 2015, ELLIS'S MURDER CONVICTION WAS OVERTURNED.

AFTER SPENDING MORE THAN TWO DECADES IN PRISON, HE WAS RELEASED ON BAIL AND PROSECUTORS ULTIMATELY DROPPED THE CHARGES.

ANOTHER OF THE FOUNDERS IS VICTOR ROSARIO, WHO WAS 24 YEARS OLD WHEN HE SAW AN APARTMENT BUILDING ON FIRE IN LOWELL.

HE SAYS HE PUNCHED A FIST THROUGH A WINDOW TO TRY TO RESCUE PEOPLE INSIDE, BUT ULTIMATELY, EIGHT PEOPLE DIED, INCLUDING FIVE KIDS.

ROSARIO WAS ARRESTED AFTER GIVING A NEWSPAPER INTERVIEW ABOUT HIS RESCUE EFFORTS AND ULTIMATELY CONFESSED TO ARSON.

BUT LATER, SAID HE WAS PRESSURED BY POLICE AND WAS GOING THROUGH SEVERE ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL AT THE TIM.

FOR YEARS AFTERWARD, HE MAINTAINED HIS INNOCENCE AND FOUGHT FOR HIS FREEDOM AND IN 2014-- AFTER 32 YEARS IN PRISON-- HIS CONVICTION WAS OVERTURNED AFTER NEW EVIDENCE RAISED CONCERNS THAT ROSARIO'S CONFESSION WAS COERCED AND SHOWED THE FIRE LIKELY WAS NOT EVEN ARSON TO BEGIN WITH.

VICTOR ROSARIO AND SEAN ELLIS JOIN ME NOW.

THE THIRD CO-FOUNDER, RAY CHAMPAGNE-- WHO LOST FOUR DECADES OF HIS LIFE TO WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT-- DIED LAST WEEK IN A MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT, JUST 30 MONTHS AFTER BEING GRANTED FREEDOM.

>> Braude: SHAWN, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

VICTOR, IT IS GOOD TO MEET YOU.

SHAWN, LAST NIGHT ROSEMARY TALKED ABOUT SHAWN DRUMGOLD, AFTER 15 YEARS IN PRISON GETS OUT, AND HE IS HOMELESS FOR A TIME.

HIS HEALTH SUFFERS BECAUSE OF THE ROTTEN HEALTH CARE HE GOT IN PRISON.

HE WAITED 12 YEARS TO GET COMPENSATION FROM THE CITY.

IS THAT THE TYPICAL KIND OF THING THAT PEOPLE FACE AFTER DECADES IN JAIL?

>> THAT'S WHERE YOU START AT.

THAT'S THE STARTING POINT.

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ONLY DEALING WITH, LIKE, HOMELESSNESS, NOT ONLY DEAL WITH BAD HEALTH CARE, DEALING WITH A LACK OF FAMILY BEING PRESENT.

THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY SOMEONE GETTING RELEASED OUT OF PRISON AFTER SPENDING DECADES IN THERE, ESPECIALLY FOR SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T DO.

>> Braude: WERE YOU PREPARED, VICTOR, TO RE-ENTER A WORLD YOU HAD BEEN AWAY FROM FOR SO LONG?

>> I REALLY WAS NOT PREPARED.

BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE IN THE PRISON SYSTEM, YOU HAVE SO MANY RINGS WHEN YOU GO IN.

AND YOU DON'T EXPECT TO COME OUT.

AFTER ALL OF THESE YEARS, YOU PASSED AND YOU GO BACK TO SOCIETY, AND YOU'RE EXPECTING TO LEAVE WHAT YOU LEFT BEHIND.

WHAT I SAW WAS A LOT OF HOMELESSNESS -- REALLY IT WAS A DEPRESSION MOMENT FORT ME.

FOR ME.

>> Braude: WHAT WAS THE HARDEST HOLE THAT YOU HAD TO FILL WHEN YOU FINALLY WERE RELEASED?

>> I SAW BASICALLY THAT YOUNG WOMENS, PREGNANT WOMENS ASKING FOR MONEY IN THE STREET, ON DRUGS, AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

REALLY IT WAS DEVASTATING TO ME TO SEE.

>> Braude: WHAT WAS THE HARDEST THING FOR YOU, SEAN, WHEN YOU GOT OUT OF JAIL?

>> WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE HARDEST THING, I'M STILL ADJUSTING, EVEN THOUGH I'M SIX YEARS HOME.

I'M STILL ADJUSTING.

THERE HAVE BEEN STRUGGLES THAT HAVE GONE FROM KNOWING HOW LONG TO SPEND IN THE SHOWER, WHICH IS A QUESTION THAT I REALLY ASK -- >> Braude: BECAUSE YOU'RE LIMITED TO YOUR TIME WHEN YOU'RE INSIDE?

IS THAT WHERE YOU'RE GOING?

>> YOU'RE DEFINITELY LIMITED, AND NOT ONLY ARE YOU LIMITED IN TERMS OF TIME-WISE BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO NEED TO TAKE SHOWERS AND A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SHOWERS, AND YOU'RE ALSO LIMITED WHEN YOU CAN'T TAKE SHOWERS.

I'VE BEEN IN CERTAIN PRISONS WHERE I COULDN'T TAKE SHOWERS BECAUSE THERE WAS A SO-CALLED, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, WATER BAN.

>> Braude: SO AS BASIC AS TAKING A SHOWER WHEN YOU'RE FREE.

DO YOU HAVE TO NOT DEAL WITH THE FACT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IT COURT SAYS, YOU WERE IN JAIL FOR DECADES, AND THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO SAID HE IS GUILTY, HE JUST GOT OUT ON SOME TECHNICALITY?

>> ABSOLUTELY, YOU HAVE TO FACE THAT.

EVERYBODY INSIDE SAYS TO BE INNOCENT.

AND I FACED THAT.

BUT I KNOW WHAT IS IN MY HEART.

I KNOW WHAT IS IN MY MIND, OKAY?

AND I KNOW I'M INNOCENT.

>> Braude: SO YOU'RE AT PEACE WITH THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Braude: DO YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT?

>> I DO.

>> Braude: AND HOW DO YOU COPE WITH THAT?

>> WE HAVE THIS COMMUNITY AND THIS COMMUNITY IS SO HELPFUL IN A LOT OF WAYS.

AND ONE OF THE WAYS OF COPING WITH IT IS JUST REMINDING ONE ANOTHER THAT YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THE NAY-SAYERS BECAUSE TO BEGIN WITH, THERE WAS A FALSE NARRATIVE.

SO THERE ARE GOING TO BE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THAT FALSE NARRATIVE AND UNFORTUNATELY ARE GOING TO STICK WITH IT.

>> Braude: LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS SUPPORT NETWORK THAT YOU, WITH RAY CHAMPAGNE, FORMED.

HE DIED IN A MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT.

HERE HE IS AT A 2022 VIRTUAL EVENT FROM THE WONDERFUL NEW ENGLAND INNOCENCE PROJECT.

AND THERE WERE THE VOICES OF A NUMBER OF EXONERATED PEOPLE.

HERE IS RAY CHAMPAGNE'S?

>> WE HAVE ALL GONE THROUGH WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH.

SO THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO CAN BE THERE FOR THEM WHEN THEY NEED IT.

EVEN IF IT IS JUST TO CRY BECAUSE LIFE IS JUST SO FRICKIN' CONFUSING TO THEM.

THAT'S OKAY, TOO.

>> Braude: WHAT OTHER KINDS OF SERVICES AND SUPPORT TO YOU PROVIDE PEOPLE WHO LIVED THROUGH NIGHTMARES LIKE YOU DID?

>> THE SUPPORT RANGES FROM EMOTIONAL SUPPORT, HOUSING SUPPORT, TECHNOLOGICAL SUPPORT.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE DESIRE AND WANT TO, YOU KNOW, GIVE JOB TRAINING AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, BUT SOME OF THE SUPPORT IS JUST BASIC SUPPORT.

MONEY TO GO TO THE STORE TO GET THEIR BASIC TOILETRIES.

SUPPORT IN GETTING THE HEALTH CARE SERVICES THAT ARE NEEDED.

IT IS, LIKE, ANOTHER PROBLEM THAT WE FACE IS IN PRISON, SOME GUYS HAVE A PROBLEM FILLING OUT A SIMPLE GRIEVANCE FORM.

I DONT WANT TOI DON'T WANT TO SAY IT SIMPLE, BUT TO ASK SOMEONE TO FILL OUT A WHOLE HEALTH CARE FORM -- >> Braude: DO YOU TALK TO EACH OTHER REGULARLY?

>> WE DO.

IT IS LIKE A BROTHERHOOD, AND WE CHECK IN WITH ONE ANOTHER -- >> Braude: THAT'S SPART OF THE SUPPORT, KNOWING THAT A BROTHER IS THERE TO SUPPORT YOU.

WHAT OTHER KINDS OF SUPPORT IS THE NETWORK PROVIDING?

>> BASICALLY, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS BASICALLY TRYING TO GET THEM BEFORE THEY EVEN COME OUT, THAT WE CAN PROVIDE WHAT THEY NEED.

WE KNOW WHAT WE NEED WHEN WE CAME OUT.

AND REGARDING TO THE EXPERIENCE THAT WE GOT, WE ARE TRYING TO GET THERE WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO THE COURT, SO THAT WE ARE THERE TO SUPPORT THEM.

AND THEY CAN SEE THAT WE CAN CONNECT WITH ONE ANOTHER BECAUSE IT IS A CONNECTION THAT HAD BEEN BROKEN.

AND WHEN THEY SEE US, THEY SEE WHERE THEY COME FROM.

AND THAT WHAT IS MAKING US UNITED.

>> Braude: JUST THAT YOU WERE THERE AND YOU LIVED THROUGH IT -- >> EXACTLY.

AND THEY CAN IDENTIFY THE PAINS AND SUFFERING THAT WE HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH OVER THE YEARS.

>> Braude: I PLAYED AT THE BEGINNING ROSEMARY SCAPICCHIO, WHO REPRESENTED SEAN ELLIS AND SHAWN DRUMGOLD, SAYING HOW SHAWN DRUMGOLD WOULD HAVE BENEFITED HAD THE NETWORK HAVE BEEN THERE IN HIS TIME OF RELEASE.

WOULD IT HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE TO YOU, VICTOR, WHEN YOU GOT OUT, IF IT HAD BEEN AVAILABLE TO YOU?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS HELP.

BECAUSE WHEN WE COME OUT, IT IS LIKE WHEN YOU GET A -- IT'S LIKE IF WE ARE BLIND TO ALL OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN CHANGED IN SOCIETY.

AND NOW IT IS LIKE THE EYES COME TO BE OPEN, LITTLE BY LITTLE, OPEN IT UP, SO WE CAN ADAPT OURSELVES TO SOCIETY BECAUSE IT IS NOT EASY TO BE INSIDE THE PRISON SYSTEM AND THEN COME OUT AND DROP YOU LIKE HERE YOU ARE.

20 YEARS LATER OR 30 YEARS LATER -- YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT EASY.

>> Braude: I SAID THIS TO ROSEMARY LAST NIGHT, AND I'M ALMOST EMBARRASS TODD SAY IT TO THE TWO OF YOU, THE STATE PUTS YOU IN PRISON, AND THEY ARE FORCED TO ADMIT THEY PUT YOU THERE FALSELY, AND WHEN THEY'RE FORCED TO RELEASE YOU, THEY FEEL NO RESPONSIBILITY TO DO ANYTHING TO UNDO THE DAMAGE THEY DID.

FINALLYS LEGISLATURE, IN THEIR MOST RECENT BUDGET, A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS TO THE EXONEREE NETWORK.

THAT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT HAS HAPPENED FROM THE STATE, CORRECT?

>> THE FIRST TIME.

>> Braude: AND WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

HOW WILL THAT MONEY BE SPENT?

>> WE'RE DEALING WITH PROVIDING THE SERVICES AND BUILDING THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

UP UNTIL NOW, SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VOLUNTEERING THEIR TIME TO KIND OF HELP PULL THINGS TOGETHER.

BUT THE MEN ARE SO GREAT, THAT WE NEED TO BUILD OUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN TERMS OF HIRING CLINICIANS AND PEOPLE TO MANAGE CASE LOADS AND MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE GOING ON AS THE PROCESS IS GOING ON.

>> Braude: AS ROSEMARY SCAPICCHIO SAID TO ME, THIS IS JUST THE SEED MONEY.

I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU THE WEBSITE ADDRESS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE EXONEREE NETWORK IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES.

I KNOW THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL WHEN TALKING ABOUT SHAWN DRUMGOLD'S FIGHT WITH THE CITY FOR A DECADE, A DECADE, BEFORE HE GOT A SETTLEMENT.

IT GETS BACK TO WHAT I SAID BEFORE, WHERE THE STATE SEEMS TO FEEL NO OBLIGATION TO COMPENSATE FOR THE WRONG THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR.

AND THEN THERE IS A BIG FIGHT.

DO YOU HOPE THAT THIS $250,000, THIS APPROPRIATION, IS AN INDICATION THAT MAYBE THAT DAM IS GOING TO BREAK AND MAYBE WILL THERE WILL BE A pGREATER UNDERSTANDING THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND YOU AND RAY AND SO MANY OTHERS SHOULDN'T HAVE TO FIGHT FOR SOME COMPENSATION FOR THE YEARS YOU LOST?

>> I HOPE IT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

BUT I'LL SAY THIS: THERE IS A DAMNING NEED FOR HOUSE FOR EXONEREES COMING HOME.

THE COURT MAKES A RULING THAT THERE WAS WRONG DONE, THAT THIS PERSON SHOULD NOT BE IN PRISON, AND THE PERSON GOES FROM A PRISON CELL TO COMING HOME, AND COMING HOME TO WHERE?

AND SO WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE $2 $250,000 AND USE IT AS A DOWN PAYMENT ON A HOUSE, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THAT ISN'T WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, BUT IT IS A START.

THERE IS A LOT MORE WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BECAUSE THERE IS NOT A LOT OF ACKNOWLEDGMENT.

>> Braude: THERE IS A LOT MORE WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, AND I'LL SAY THAT I HOPE FOR EVERYBODY THAT YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES WILL NOT HAVE TO DO IT ALONE.

HOPEFULLY WE'LL ALL PLEDGE TO MAKE IT RIGHT AS BEST WE CAN.

SEAN, IT IS GOOD TO HEAR YOUR VOICE, AND VICTOR, THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK.

SEAN ELLIS AND VICTOR ROWS ROWS.

FOR MORE INFO ON THEIR WORK, HEAD TO NEWENGLANDINNOCENCE.ORG/ EXONEREE -NETWORK.

NEXT UP, AND ON A FAR LIGHTER NOTE, I DON'T MEAN TO BE AN ALARMIST BUT WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT TWO MONTHS LEFT OF SUMMER-- AND STILL ON MY AGENDA?

HITTING ALL FOUR SECTIONS OF THE CAPE: UPPER, MID, LOWER AND OUTER, WHICH ADMITTEDLY I HAD NO IDEA EVEN EXISTED AS DIFFERENT ENTITIES UNTIL THE RECENT TERRIFIC "BOSTON GLOBE" SERIES THAT FOCUSES ON THE HITS, AND A FEW MISSES OF EACH OF THE REGIONS.

I'M JOINED BY THE TWO JOURNALISTS WHO WERE TASKED WITH PAINSTAKINGLY SIGHTSEEING AND EATING THEIR WAY THROUGH IT ALL.

THEY BOWLED, THEY DRANK, THEY ATE LOBSTER ROLLS, THEY DRANK.

THEY STAYED AT CELEBRATED HIGH-END ACCOMMODATIONS AND NO NAME LOW-END ONES.

THEY ATE ICE CREAM AND THEY DRANK.

"GLOBE" TRAVEL WRITER CHRISTOPHER MUTHER AND "GLOBE" RESTAURANT CRITIC DEVRA FIRST, WHO'S JOINING US UNDER A VEIL OF ANONYMITY, TO KEEP WOULD-BE RESTAURANT-BRIBERS AT BAY.

>> Braude: CHRISTOPHER, GREAT TO SEE YOU.

DEVRA, YOU LOOK FABULOUS.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

CAN WE START WITH SOME GENERAL THINGS.

WHAT WAS THE GENESIS OF THIS PARTNERSHIP?

>> I WAS THINKING ON THAT, AND I REALIZED THAT DEVRA AND I HAD A FLIGHT, AND THAT'S WHERE WE HAD THE IDEA.

WE SHOULD GO TO THE CAPE pAND DO IT IN SECTIONS.

>> Braude: DEVRA, OBVIOUSLY YOU HAD GREAT TREPIDATION TO DO ANYTHING WITH CHRISTOPHER.

HOW DID YOU OVERCOME THAT CONCERN?

>> IT WAS DIFFICULT, BUT I MANAGED.

ACTUALLY, WE ALWAYS WANTED TO COLLABORATE, BUT WE COULDN'T THINK WHAT MADE SENSE TO GO TOGETHER.

BUT AS CHRIS SAID, DURING THE PEACE CO FLIGHT IT HIT US.

>> Braude: I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE FOUR REGIONS OF THE CAPE.

I'VE ONLY EXPERIENCED OUTER AND LOWER.

I'M GOING TO GO DOWN QUICKLY, AND CAN ONE OF YOU GIVE ME A SENTENCE OR TWO ON WHAT YOU THINK DISTINGUISHES THAT REGION.

SURE, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO, JIM.

DEVRA, UPPER, WHAT DISTINGUISHES THAT PART OF THE CAPE?

>> UPPER CAPE?

WELL, IT IS EASY TO GET TO SO IT IS GOOD FOR, LIKE, A DAY TRIP.

>> Braude: UH-HUH.

>> AND THAT'S A NICE THING TO DO.

YOUDO.IT'S FUN, YOU CAN GO RIDE BIKES AROUND, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE DID, IN FACT, DO.

YOU CAN GO DRINK SOME BEER.

THERE IS A TREEHOUSE BREWERY THERE NOW.

IF YOU JUST HAD A DAY AND WANTED TO DO A KIT, YOU COULD DO THAT THERE.

>> Braude: OKAY.

FINE.

SO, MID, GIVE ME A SENTENCE ON MID-CAPE, CHRISTOPHER.

>> I FEEL LIKE MID-CAPE IS ALMOST THE RESIDENTIAL AREA OF THE CAPE.

WHERE PEOPLE WHO WORK ON THE CAPE LIVE, AS OPPOSED TO SORT OF LOWER AND OUTER -- THERE MAY BE MORE OUTER -- BUT THERE YOU'LL FIND ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS THAT WE DID, LIKE A SUNSET CRUISE.

THERE ARE SOME WONDERFUL BEACHES.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, KIND OF KENNEDY COUNTRY.

THERE IS ALSO SOME REALLY CHARMING MAIN STREETS FOR SHOPPING.

>> Braude: AND LOWER, SINCE YOU MENTIONED LOWER, CHRISTOPHER, TAKE IT AWAY.

GIVE ME A SENTENCE ON LOWER.

>> UM, MONEY.

CAN I JUST SAY MONEY FOR LOWER.

>> Braude: AND OUTER IS MONEY, TOO, IS IT?

DEVRA?

>> THERE IS CERTAINLY MONEY THERE, BUT I WOULD SAY MORE IT IS ECCENTRIC, PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TO ESCAPE OR, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS, WRITERS.

THERE IS A BIG COMMUNITY OF CREATIVES THERE, AND THE GAY HOMOSEXUALS.

>> INSTEAD OF CREATIVE, SHE MEANS GAYS, BOTTOM LINE.

>> Braude: ONE OF THE INSTRUCTIONS I GOT FROM THESE TWO, IT'S NOT A BEST OF.

WITH TWO EXCEPTIONS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO SAY WHAT IS THE BEST.

I DON'T KNOW, WHAT MADE YOU FEEL HAPPY OR SOME SUCH THING.

DEVRA, STARTING WITH YOU, SINCE YOU'RE THE FOOD PERSON, BEST SEA SEAFOOD OTHER THAN A LOBSTER ROLL.

ANY REGION?

>> WE WENT TO THIS PLACE CALLED "EPIC OYSTER," AND WE REALLY ENJOYED IT.

IT BRINGS IN SOME OF THE PORTUGUESE INFLUENCES OF THE AREA, WHICH IS KIND OF A NEAT THING TO GET.

AND IT IS ALSO A RESTAURANT THAT YOU MIGHT GO TO, YOU KNOW, IN THE CITY.

IT HAS SORT OF LIKE A REAL SENSIBILITY, A CHEF SENSIBILITY.

SENSIBILITY.

A CHEF SENSEABILITY.

>> Braude: IF YOU SAY CLAM STRIPS, I'M COMING ACROSS THE TABLE.

CLAM STRIPS ARE NOT A FOOD.

WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE -- >> CLAM STRIPS.

>> Braude: I'M SERIOUS, WHAT WAS IT?

>> WE HAD A REALLY GREAT TUNA POQUE.

>> YES.

>> Braude: WHERE WAS IT?

>> I THINK THE ONE IN WEALTHLEY.

>> Braude: OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE KNOW BEACHES, FROM THE DRIVE IN TO THE GOLF -- WHAT WAS THE RECREATIONAL HIGHLIGHT?

>> FORCE ME, IT WAS DRAGGING DEVRA ON THINGS SHE DIDN'T WANT TO DO.

>> Braude: LIKE WHAT?

>> KAYAKING.

WE WENT KAYAKING, AND I TOOK OFF, ON THE JOCK THAT I AM, AND I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT DEVRA WAS SO FAR BEHIND SHE WAS GETTING PULLED OUT INTO THE TIDES.

THE SAME WITH BOWLING.

I JUST ROLLED RIGHT OVER HERE -- >> Braude: SO TO SPEAK.

DO YOU LIKE THE BIG -- MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS ONE THING ABOUT BOWLING, WHICH IS I WON ONE OUT OF THREE OF THE GAMES.

CHRIS MAY BE EXAGGERATING HIS EXTREME ABILITIES IN THE BOWLING ALLEY.

>> Braude: I AM NOT SURPRISED.

>> AND I WOULD SAY I ALSO REALLY LOVED KAYAKING.

THAT WAS MY FAVORITE, EVEN THOUGH CHRIS KIND OF pDRAGGED ME.

I THINK I WANT TO BUY A KAYAK NOW.

>> Braude: THAT'S GREAT.

DEVRA, STARTING WITH YOU, SINCE YOU'RE THE FOOD PERSON, NOT ONLY ICE CREAM, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE'RE FOCUSING ON PEPPERMINT ICE CREAM IN PARTICULAR, OR JUST BEST ICE CREAM IN GENERAL, DEVRA?

>> CHRIS AND I HAVE THIS RANDOM LOVE OF PEPPERMINT ICE CREAM.

IT IS BOTH OF OUR FAVORITES, AND THAT IS UNUSUAL IN THE ICE CREAM-LOVERS COMMUNITY.

SO WE BONDED OVER THAT REALLY EVERYWHERE WE WENT.

I THINK WE AGREED THAT OUR FAVORITE WAS FOUR "C"s IN SINGER/SONG CENTERVILLE.

>> Braude: MARGERY EAGAN ALSO LIKES THAT.

ARE YOU SIGNING OFF ON FOUR "C"s?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE IS A CERTAIN CANDY TO CREAM RATIO.

AND YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO COLORS.

THEY NEED TO BE GREEN AND RED.

YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE THE RED OR THE GREEN.

AND THE PINK CAN'T BE TWO ARTIFICIAL.

YOU NEED TO HAVE A TINY BLUSH OF PINK IN THE ICE CREAM.

SO IF YOU HAVE THE FLAVOR, THE CANDIES, AND THE CREAM CREAMINEST, YOU HAVE THE FOUR "C"s. >> Braude: BACK TO YOU, DEVRA, THE OTHER THING WE'RE ALLOWED TO RATE BEST OF, THE LOBSTER, AND WHAT WAS THE BEST AND HOW MUCH DID IT COST AND WHERE DID IT COME FROM?

>> I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT WAS MY FAVORITE OF THE TRIP, BUT MAYBE NOT THE BEST.

A PLACE WE STUMBLED UPON WHEN WE NEEDED REFRESHMENT DURING OUR BIKE RIDE, CALLED SEAFOOD CHANTY, AND THE PRICE OF LOBSTER IS HIGH AND FUEL IS EXPENSIVE, SO JUST BE PREPARED FOR THAT.

IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT $30.

IT WAS A GIANT LOBSTER ROLL, BRIMMING WITH HUGE PIECES OF FRESH LOBSTER MEAT.

EVERYTHING YOU WANT FROM A LOBSTER ROLL.

NOT TOO MUCH MAYO, A LITTLE BIT OF CRUNCH FROM LETTUCE, BUT THAT IS REALLY IT, GIANT AMOUNTS OF BIG PIECES OF FRESH LOBSTERS.

AND I'VE PAID MORE THAN THAT FOR MUCH LESSER LOBSTER ROLLS.

THAT WAS A NICE SURPRISE, RIGHT ON A BUSY ROAD OVERLOOKING THE CANAL.

AND CHRIS EVEN TRIED IT -- >> Braude: WHAT DO YOU MEAN "EVEN TRIED," IT, YOU DON'T LIKE LOBSTER?

>> NO.

BUT THE CLAM STRIPS WERE REALLY GOOD, AND THE TARTER SAUCE WAS AMAZING.

>> Braude: I LOVE TARTER SAUCE.

I MAKE TARTER SAUCE, NOT THAT YOU ASKED.

WHAT WAS MY POINT ABOUT LOBSTER ROLL.

OH, CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT HELPING WITH THE PRICE.

LET'S GO TO ACCOMMODATIONS SINCE YOU'RE THE TRAVEL WRITING.

HERE IS MY TAKE-AWAY HAVING READ ALL FOUR PARTS OF THE SERIES -- CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG -- DEVRA STAYED IN HIGH-END ACCOMMODATIONS OVERLOOKING THE WATER.

YOU STAYED IN LOW-END ACCOMMOATIONS OVERLOOKING PARKING LOTS.

IS THAT A FAIR SUMMARY?

>> YES.

>> Braude: HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?

>> DEVRA IS A DIVA -- NO.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE WEEK I HAVE THE NICE AND THE NEXT WEEK SHE HAD THE NICE, AND WE SWAP OFF.

BUT I ENDED UP PICKING REALLY LOUSY PLACES, AND IT IS ALSO HIGH TIDE SEASON IN THE CAPE, AND THERE WAS ONE NIGHT WHERE I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN A NICE PLACE, AND INSTEAD THERE WERE GOATS THERE.

>> Braude: IN THE ROOM?

>> NOT IN THE ROOM, BUT ON THE PROPERTY.

GOATS ARE LIKE SATAN'S LAP DOGS.

AND DEVRA IS AT A REALLY COOL HIPPIE HOTEL.

AND MY HOTEL WAS FILLED WITH GROSS PINE FURNITURE.

BUT I WILL SAY SOME OF THE PLACES I STAYED WERE NOT HIGH END, BUT THEY WERE REALLY LIKE A GOOD DEAL, LIKE THE CHATHAM HOTEL.

>> Braude: CHATHAM BAR IN FOR $400 A NIGHT -- >> ONLY $1200 A NIGHT.

>> Braude: WAS IT REALLY?

>> YES.

>> IT IS HARD IN THE pMOMENT TO COMPARE THE PRICE OF A NIGHT TO MY MONTHLY MORTGAGE PAYMENT.

>> Braude: I INTENDED TO GO THROUGH COCKTAILS AND COFFEE, WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT DRINK TO ME.

BEACHES, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT A BIGGER ISSUE, DEVRA, STARTING WITH YOU.

EVERY ARTICLE I READ ABOUT THE CAPE -- NOT YOURS -- BUT THE FIRST LINE, SECOND PARAGRAPH, IS ABOUT THE SHORTAGE OF WORKERS IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY, AND THE CAPE IS ALL SERVICE INDUSTRIES.

DID YOU FIND THAT?

>> CERTAINLY PEOPLE ARE HAVING TROUBLE FINDING ENOUGH HELP, SO YOU MIGHT FIND THINGS THAT A REALLY POPULAR COFFEE SHOP ON COMMERCIAL STREET IS CLOSED ON WEDNESDAYS.

WHAT EVERYBODY IS SAYING, DON'T EXPECT GOOD SERVICE.

BE KIND TO US.

WE'RE BUSY, WE'RE UNDERSTAFFED.

THE PLEASANT SURPRISE FOR US WAS EVERYWHERE WE WENT ON THIS TRIP, WE HAD EXCELLENT SERVICE.

>> Braude: OH, REALLY?

>> KIND.

SOMETIMES IT WAS GREEN, BUT, STILL, ONCE THEY GOT TRAINED UP, IT WAS GOING TO BE GREAT.

THAT WAS A REALLY NICE SURPRISE.

>> Braude: CHRIS, WERE PEOPLE A-HOLES?

WE HEARD ALL OF THESE STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE SCREAMING AT YOUNG KIDS WORKING -- >> FROM WHAT I SAW, THERE WAS NO SORT OF CUSTOMER RAGE GOING ON, EXCEPT WHEN DEVRA WALKED INTO THE PLACE -- I'M KIDDING.

OTHERWISE, IT WAS TOTALLY FINE.

PEOPLE'S EXPECTATIONS ARE SO LOW WHEN IT COMES TO SERVICE, THE FACT THAT WE HAD A WAIT A LITTLE LONGER, IT WAS FINE.

AND, ALSO, PEOPLE WERE JUST FLAT-OUT CHARMING.

>> Braude: BEFORE WE GO, CHRISTOPHER, DID YOU SEE A SHARK OR DID YOU NOT SEE A SHARK?

>> I SAW A SHARK.

>> Braude: DO YOU WANT TO TELL US WHERE, OR SHOULD WE WAIT TO FRIDAY?

>> I'M NOT AFRAID TO SAY IT.

IT WAS IN WEALTHLEY.

>> Braude: WERE YOU IN THE WATER?

>> MY TOES WERE IN THE WATER.

>> Braude: WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

>> IT WAS MORE PANIC.

I ONLY PEA PEED IN MY BATHING SUIT.

>> Braude: I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE FOURTH INSTALLMENT.

EVERYBODY SHOULD CHECK IT OUT.

>> THANK YOU.

TYRECE THANK YOU.

>> BRAUDE: CHRISTOPHER MUTHER, DEVRA FIRST, THANKS.

BY THE WAY, THE FINAL INSTALLATION OF THEIR CAPE SERIES IS OUT FRIDAY.

DON'T MISS IT.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

AHEAD OF WHAT MAY BE THE FINAL JANUARY 6TH HEARING, WE'RE BRINGING YOU THE MAJOR HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE SEVEN HEARINGS UP TO THIS POINT.

AND BE SURE TO JOIN US THE FIRST WEEK OF AUGUST, AS WELL, FOR A STATE RACE DEBATE EXTRAVAGANZA.

ON MONDAY, AUGUST 1ST.

THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL WILL ALL FACE OFF.

THEN, TUESDAY, THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

ON THURSDAY, WE'LL HAVE THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES FOR STATE AUDITOR.

AND IF YOU'RE WONDERING WHY I DIDN'T MENTION WEDNESDAY, WELL THAT'S BECAUSE WE WERE HOLDING THE DATE FOR A DEBATE BETWEEN THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR.

BUT CHRIS DOUGHTY HAS AGREED TO DEBATE HERE, GEOFF DIEHL HAS NOT.

WE'VE REACHED OUT SEVERAL TIMES IN RECENT WEEKS AND CONTINUE TO HOPE.

BUT DON'T WORRY, WE'LL TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO THAT RACE THAT DAY, EITHER WAY.

AND ON AUGUST 10TH, WE'LL HAVE YET ANOTHER DEBATE, THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY FOR SECRETARY OF STATE, BETWEEN LONGTIME INCUMBENT BILL GALVIN AND N.A.A.C.P.

BOSTON PRESIDENT, TANISHA SULLIVAN.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND PLEASE, DON'T FORGET UKRAINE.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org