>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> IRAN HAS BEEN VERY, VERY BADLY DAMAGED.

>> TRUMP VOWS TO MAKE TEHRAN PAY AFTER AMERICAN SERVICE MEMBERS ARE KILLED IN CONFLICT.

WHERE COULD THE WAR GO FROM HERE?

I ASK FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY CHUCK HAGEL.

AND CUT OFF FROM FUEL, CUT OFF FROM POWER.

HOW THE U. S. BLOCKADE IS CRIPPLING CUBA.

I SPEAK TO A U. S. CONGRESSMAN WHO JUST RETURNED FROM THE ISLAND.

THEN, FIRE, SMOKE AND EXTREME WEATHER WREAK HAVOC ACROSS THE WORLD.

COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR BRADLEY HORTON JOIN ME ON THE HARSH REALITIES OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

PLUS -- >> THREE ESSENTIAL THINGS ARE TOLERANCE, SKEPTICISM ABOUT POWER AND A COMMITMENT TO INDIVIDUALISM.

>> ADRIAN WALDRIDGE TELLS WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT HIS BOOK, "THE LOST GENIUS OF LIBERALISM. "

â™á â™á â™á â™á â™á â™á â™á â™á â™á > >> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

SILVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.

THE STRAUSS FAMILY FOUNDATION.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSEN BLUME.

MONOEC WARSHAW.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA ZUCKERBERG AND DONATIONS TO THE STATION BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CRISTHIAN AMANPOUR.

DONALD TRUMP IS VOWING REVERGE AFTER SERVICE MEMBERS WERE KILLED BY IRANIAN STRIKES.

THE U. S. PRESIDENT SAID TEHRAN WILL PAY MANY TIMES OVER AS THE PENTAGON IS ACKNOWLEDGING NEARLY 100 SERVICE MEMBERS HAVE SUFFERED FROM SOME LEVEL OF INJURY IN THE PAST TWO WEEK, MOST OF THEM MEANER.

MEANWHILE IN IRAN, PRESIDENT MAHMOUD PESH EARN KIAN IS INVOLVED IN A FULL-SCALE WAR.

THEY ARE FURTHER THREATENING GLOBAL OIL SUPPLIES.

DESPITE PAST PREDICTIONS THAT THE IRAN WAR WILL BE OVER IT CONTINUES ON AND HIS ADMINISTRATION IS LOBBYING CONGRESS FOR TENS AND BILLIONS MORE TO FUND THE FIGHTING.

CHARLIE HAGEL WAS UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA, AND HE JOINS ME NOW.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM.

LET'S START WITH THOSE THREE CASUALTIES, THOSE SERVICE MEMBERS THAT WERE KILLED OVER THE WEEKEND.

OF COURSE, OUR THOUGHTS ARE WITH THEIR FAMILIES RIGHT NOW AS THEIR BODIES ARE BEING TRANSFERRED OVER TO DOVER AIR FORCE BASE.

THREE IRANIAN MISSILES HAD HIT THAT JORDANIAN BASE IN JUST 24 HOURS.

THEY TARGETED AND THEY HIT A GYM, A HANGAR AND THEN HOUSING UNITS WHERE SOLDIERS SLEPT.

WHAT DOES THIS PATTERN TELL YOU ABOUT HOW EXPOSED SOME 50,000 U. S. SERVICE MEMBERS MAY BE IN THE REGION RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, WHEN YOU START A WAR WITH NO STRATEGY, THESE KINDS OF THINGS HAPPEN, AND OF COURSE, CASUALTIES ALWAYS HAPPEN IN WARS, AND YOU HAVE TO FACTOR THAT IN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT TAKING A NATION TO WAR AND COMMITTING OUR MEN AND WOMEN TO THAT KIND OF COMBAT AND POSSIBILITY OF CASUALTIES.

WHAT WE'VE GOT TO DO HERE IN THIS -- THIS ENDLESS WAR THAT WE GOT OURSELVES INTO, KIND OF LIKE THREE WARS WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY STRATEGY OR CONNECTION TO, UNDERSTANDING VIETNAM, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, WE'VE GOT TO START LISTENING TO THE DIPLOMATIC CORPS.

HOW DO WE GET OUT OF THIS?

WE'VE GOT TO LISTEN TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

THIS ISN'T JUST A WAR WITH IRAN AND THE UNITED STATES ANYMORE AND ISRAEL.

THIS IS A WAR WITH THE MIDDLE EAST, IT IS CONNECTED TO THE WORLD, THE ECONOMY.

SO THE WHOLE WORLD IS INVOLVED IN THIS IN SOME WAY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF WHEN WE STARTED.

>> SO THE ENEMY, AS IT SAYS, AS IT GOES HAS A SAY HERE, AS WELL AND IN TERMS OF WHERE IRAN VIEWS THINGS, DIPLOMATICALLY, THEY HAD AN OPTION, AN OPPORTUNITY THAT MANY THOUGHT WAS THE BEST OPPORTUNITY THEY COULD HAVE AND PERHAPS A BAD OPTION THAT THE UNITED STATES LAID OUT ON THE TABLE FOR ITSELF, AND THAT WAS THE 60-DAY MOU.

SANCTIONS WOULD BE LIFTED, THE STRAIT WOULD BE OPEN, THE WAR WOULD END.

IRAN, DESPITE HAVING ALL OF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES CHOSE TO, ONCE AGAIN, BREAK THAT MOU AND ATTACK SHIPS GOING THROUGH THE STRAIT.

SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF A DIPLOMATIC OFFRAMP?

>> WELL, WHAT WE PRODUCED IN IRAN TODAY OVER THE LAST MORE THAN FOUR MONTHS IS A REGIME MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH, MUCH MORE MILITANT, LESS INCLINED TO DEAL WITH US OR TO RESOLVE THESE ISSUES, AND THAT'S THE REALITY AND THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE ACTION THAT WE STARTED WITH NOT THINKING THROUGH THIS.

ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

INACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON STRATEGICALLY INSIDE, BUT WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WILL CONTINUE TO ATTACK THEM AND GO TO WAR ON THE BASIS OF RETRIBUTION FOR THEM KILLING OUR SOLDIERS, THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO CONDUCT A WAR.

YOU'VE GOT TO GO DEEPER THAN THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE DOING THAT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING DIPLOMATICALLY.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY IT'S GOING TO GET RESOLVED OR AT LEAST THE BEGINNING OF RESOLUTION HERE IS ON IS THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

YOU'VE --YOU'VE GOT TWO REAL ESTATE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF THE DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS.

THIS IS NOT A REAL ESTATE DEAL.

THIS IS NOT A DEAL, AND YOU CAN'T CONDUCT ANYTHING LIKE THIS ON A RETRIBUTION BASIS.

YOU HIT US, WE'LL HIT YOU MORE AND THEN IT GOES ON AND ON AND ON.

SOMEONE'S GOT TO START THINKING A LOT DEEPER AND WIDER THAN WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW.

>> WE ARE NOW IN TEN DAYS BACK AND FORTH STRIKES.

THE U. S. FOCUS IS ON KEEPING THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ OPEN AND THAT'S WHERE A NUMBER AND THE MAJORITY OF THESE TARGETS HAVE BEEN IN I ATTACKING IRANIAN INFRASTRUCTURE AND WE HAVE SEEN U. S. STRIKES ON IRANIAN WATER PLANTS AND E RAN RETALIATED WITH STRIKES THAT HIT DESALINIZATION FACILITIES OR AT LEAST FACILITIES THAT FUNCTION, PERHAPS IN BOTH WAYS CIVILIAN AND MILITARILY, DOES THAT GET THE UNITED STATES TO A PLACE WHERE IT HAS LEVERAGE HERE?

>> NO, AND IF FOR NO OTHER REASON, THEN WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, IT'S THE SAME THING THAT ISRAEL HAS BEEN DOING IN GAZA, THE WEST BANK, LEBANON.

YOU'RE CREATING GENERATIONS OF NEW TERRORISTS.

YOU ARE CREATING NEW GENERATIONS OF ANTI-AMERICANS.

LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE HOUTHIS IN YEMEN THREATENING TO CLOSE DOWN THAT WATERWAY IN THE RED SEA.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU'RE NOT SMART ABOUT THIS AND WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO AND WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH?

FIVE MONTHS AGO THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ WAS OPEN, AND WE MADE IT WORSE.

AND SO WE'VE GOT TO START THINKING BEYOND JUST THAT.

I MEAN, WE HEAR A NEW EXPLANATION EVERY DAY OF WHAT THIS WAR WAS ABOUT.

WELL, IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY FIRST ABOUT IRANIANS NOT HAVING NUCLEAR CAPABILITY AND CAPACITY.

I MEAN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ANSWERED THIS THING IN 2015 AND HAD A VERY SMART PROGRAM PLAN, THAT EVERYBODY WAS ABIDING BY AND IN FACT, ALL OF THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD INCLUDING RUSSIA AND CHINA SIGNED ON TO IT.

THE UNITED NATIONS SIGNED ON IT IT.

THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO GET BACK TO TO RESOLVE THIS, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THIS PRESIDENT OR THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS THE CAPACITY TO DO THAT.

SO THIS IS GOING TO GO ON.

>> YEAH, AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE'S NOBODY TO SAY WHO IN THIS IRANIAN --THE CURRENT IRANIAN REGIME THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE A DEAL AT THIS POINT, AS WELL, AND ON THAT SPECIFIC ISSUE OF IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM, THE PRESIDENT TODAY MADE A NUMBER OF NEWSWORTHY COMMENTS.

ONE WAS THAT THE NEXT TARGET, PERHAPS WOULD BE PICKAX MOUNTAIN AFTER THERE WERE REPORTS THAT ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE PROVIDED TO THE UNITED STATES SHOWED THAT CENTRIFUGES HAD BEEN MOVED TO PICKAX MOUNTAIN WHICH IS CONSIDERABLY DEEPER THAN BORDEAUX AFTER THE 12-DAY WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL, THE UNITED STATES AND IRAN.

PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYING THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT TARGET, AND HE SAID THE ONLY REASON HE'S ANNOUNCING THAT IS BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING THAT IRAN COULD DO TO STOP IT.

SO YOUR REACTION TO THE PRESIDENT SAYING THERE'S NOTHING IRAN CAN DO.

PERHAPS VERY OPTIMISTIC THAT THEIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS HAVE BEEN DECIMATED, AND ALSO WOULD THE UNITED STATES, EVEN WITH BUNKER BUSTER BOMBS BE ABLE TO PENETRATE PICKAX?

>> WELL, LET'S START WITH THE FACT A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, THE PRESIDENT SAID HE HAD TOTALLY E MASK LATED THE IRANIAN CAPABILITIES AND ARMED FORCES.

WELL, NOT QUITE RIGHT.

I MEAN, IF YOU --IF YOU WANT TO DO WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT DOING HERE AND YOU CAN, WITH OUR CAPABILITY, YOU CAN BOMB THEM, YOU CAN DO ALL OF THAT, BUT YOU'LL HAVE TO PUT TROOPS ON THE GROUND.

IF YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE SAYS HE WANTS TO ACCOMPLISH TWO MONTHS AGO OR THREE MONTHS AGO, THAT'S WHERE THIS IS GOING.

THAT GOES BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT, WHERE IS THIS GOING?

WE'RE GETTING DEEPER AND DEEPER IN THIS HOLE.

THE IRANIANS ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP.

YOU HAVE THE MIDDLE EAST INVOLVED NOW AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER WAR GOING ON IN UKRAINE, AND WE HAVE CAPABILITY ISSUES WITH OUR INVENTORIES AND WEAPONRY THAT'S NOW BECOMING VERY CLEAR.

THE CONGRESS HAS GOT TO GET IN THIS.

I MEAN, WHERE HAS THE CONGRESS BEEN?

ABSENT.

>> ON THAT POINT -- >> POLICY HERE -- >> ON THAT POINT OF CONGRESS, SECRETARY HEGSETH AND CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS GENERAL KAINE WILL BE TESTIFYING TODAY BEFORE THE SENATE ASKING FOR MORE FUNDING FOR THE WAR.

IT HAS BEEN THREE MONTHS NOW.

IT'S BEEN SINCE MAY SINCE WE LAST HAD A BRIEFING FROM BOTH THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, AND HE WOULD JOINTLY STAND THERE AND BRIEF THE PUBLIC AND THE MEDIA WITH THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS.

IT'S BEEN MAY SINCE THEIR LAST BRIEFING.

"THE NEW YORK TIMES" INITIALLY REPORTED AND THEN THE PENTAGON THEN FOLLOWED UP BY ANNOUNCING THAT SOME 100 SERVICE MEMBERS HAD BEEN INJURED OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

DOZENS.

WE HAVEN'T HAD A REAL UPDATE ON HOW MANY HAD BEEN WOUNDED UNTIL NOW.

YOU SAT AT THAT WITNESS TABLE AS SECRETARY ASKING FOR MORE SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING.

CAN CONGRESS DO MORE AT THIS POINT IN TERMS OF THE QUESTIONS YOU'RE ASKING RIGHT NOW?

WHY IS THIS WAR GOING?

WHERE IS THIS MONEY GOING?

>> WELL, OF COURSE, THEY CAN.

THEY CONTROL THE FUNDING.

THE POWER OF THE PURSE.

THAT'S ONE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS THAT THE CONGRESS HAS, AND ONLY CONGRESS CAN APPROPRIATE MONEY.

THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

ALSO, WHERE HAS THE CONGRESS BEEN ON ANY KIND OF A VOTE?

ARE WE IN FAVOR OF THIS?

ARE WE NOT IN FAVOR?

WHAT'S GOING ON?

WHAT DO WE KNOW?

WHAT WE DON'T KNOW?

WHERE CONGRESS HAS BEEN IS TRULY UNBELIEVABLE TO ME, AND IT'S LET DOWN THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW THE NUMBERS ON THIS.

THE POLLING NUMBERS, AND I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS BECAUSE THERE'S NO SUPPORT FOR THIS WAR BECAUSE PEOPLE, I'M SURE, WHY DID WE START IT?

WHERE ARE WE GOING, AND THE LONGER --AS I SAID, THE LONGER YOU GO WITH THIS, THE DEEPER YOU GET INTO THIS AND THE CONGRESS, AGAIN, IS THE ONE BODY THAT CAN STOP IT, AND ON.

>> DO THEY HAVE THE BACKBONE TO DO THAT?

>> THEY HAVE NOT HAD THE BACKBONE.

THEY HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RESPONSIBILITY, BUT EVEN MORE BASIC THAN THAT, THE CONGRESS HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE PEOPLE OF OF THIS COUNTRY WHO FUND THE TAXES, WHO FUND THOSE WARS, AND --AND WHO HAVE JURISDICTION, LITERALLY, OVER DECISIONS MADE BECAUSE WE ARE A REPUBLIC.

NOTHING STARTS UNTIL THERE'S AN ELECTION AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY WHERE THE PUBLIC DECIDE WHEN YOU SEND A SENATOR OR CONGRESSMAN TO WASHINGTON, YOU SEND THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO PROTECT YOUR INTEREST.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

MAYBE IT'S A JUST WAR.

MAYBE EVERYTHING WE'RE DOING IS JUST, HOW DO WE KNOW THAT?

THERE'S BEEN NO TRANSPARENCY AND NOBODY FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.

WE HEAR FROM THE PRESIDENT EVERY DAY AND EVERYTHING HE SAID IS BASICALLY NOT TRUE AND HE CHANGES HIS APPROACH THE NEXT DAY.

SO THE CONGRESS HAS GOT IT VERY, VERY SIGNIFICANT RESPONSIBILITY HERE, AND THEY'VE NOT FULFILLED IT.

>> YEAH.

MAYBE THIS IS A JUST WAR, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, TRANSPARENCY IS --IS THE NAME OF THE GAME HERE IN TERMS OF WHAT CONGRESS IS OWED, THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THOSE FAMILIES OF THE 17 SERVICE MEMBERS THAT HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES SINCE THIS WAR BEGAN.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

THE PEOPLE WHO FIGHT THE WARS, AND I WAS IN ONE OF THOSE WARS IN VIETNAM IN 1968.

NO TRANSPARENCY THERE, EITHER.

>> YEAH.

>> WE LOST ALMOST 57,000 MEN AND WOMEN IN THAT WAR BECAUSE NO ONE HAD THE COURAGE ON THE POLITICAL FRONT IN THE CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENCY TO STEP FORWARD AND BE HONEST ABOUT IT.

>> SECRETARY HAGEL, WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME TODAY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> FOR SIX MONTHS CUBA HAS BEEN SUFFERING UNDER A U. S.

-IMPOSED OIL BLOCK CADE CAUSING HAVOC AND SUFFERING THAT IS ONLY GETTING WORSE.

WITH CUBANS RACING TO CHARGE THEIR PHONES OR PUMP WATER WHENEVER THE POWER COMES ON IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

IT LEVERAGED FURTHER SANCTIONS ON THE COUNTRY THIS TIME TARGETING THE TOUR IMINDUSTRY.

SEVERAL LAWMAKERS MADE THE JOURNEY TO THE ISLAND AND HAVE DENOUNCED THE SUFFERING THAT THEY SAW.

AMONG THEM WAS CONGRESSMAN MARK POCAN WHO JOINS ME FROM WASHINGTON, D. C. CONGRESSMAN, THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

THE STATE DEPARTMENT TODAY CALLS CUBA, THE CAPITAL OF 21st CENTURY COMMUNISM STILL EXPORTING INSTABILITY ACROSS THE REGION.

YOU WALKED THE STREETS OF THE ISLAND.

WHAT DID YOU SEE?

>> YEAH.

I SAW THAT --I HAVE A COPY WITH IT BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT, AND I BROUGHT IT WITH ME, AND TO CALL IT FANTASTICAL -- IT'S NOT JUST A OIL BLOCKADE.

IT'S A BLOCK ADE OF FOOD, AND MEDICINE.

IT'S A COMPLETE BLOCKADE AND AN INVOLUNTARY GLOBAL BLOCKADE BECAUSE ANY COUNTRY THAT DOES WILL FACE SANCTIONS FROM THE UNITED STATES.

SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS FOR 65+ YEARS WE'VE HAD SOME SORT OF BLOCKADE ALMOST CONTINUOUS ON THE CUBAN PEOPLE, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'VE INTENSIFIED IT SO IT'S REALLY A BOOT ON THE NECK OF THE CUBAN PEOPLE.

THE ELECTRIC GRID HAS FAILED MULTIPLE TIMES FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME.

THEY CAN'T GET ANY MEDICINE OR PARTS FOR MEDICAL DEVICES FOR THEIR HOSPITALS.

THEY DON'T HAVE FOOD.

THEY CAN'T EVEN HAVE KIDS IN SCHOOL RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE POWER SITUATION, AND IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE CLAIM WE'RE LOOKING OUT FOR THE CUBAN PEOPLE AGAINST THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT, AND INSTEAD WE'RE HURTING THE CUBAN PEOPLE AND THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM.

>> WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR THE TRIP?

HAVE YOU BEEN BEFORE?

DID YOU DECIDE TO GO FOLLOWING THIS BLOCKADE, AND IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOUR CONSTITUENTS HAVE PRIORITIZED.

>> YEAH.

WE HAVE A SISTER CITY, WISCONSIN WITH KAMAGUEY, CUBA.

I WAS THERE THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO AND JUST AGAIN LAST WEEK, AND I CAN TELL YOU THE DIFFERENCES I SAW.

WITH NO FUEL, NOT ONLY DID THEY GO 42 HOURS WITHOUT POWER.

WE HAD AN HOUR AND A HALF OF POWER AND IT WENT BACK DOWN AGAIN AND YOU ALSO DON'T HAVE GARBAGE TRUCKS TO PICK UP GARBAGE AND IT'S LITERALLY PILING UP IN THE STREETS.

THEY HAVE ONE OF THE BEST MEDICAL SYSTEMS AND THEY EXPORT DOCTORS THROUGHOUT CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA AND THEY CAN'T DO THAT.

IN FACT, WHEN THE POWER GOES OUT SURGEONS USE THEIR PHONE LIGHTS TO FINISH THE SURGERY.

IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER EXPECTING DIFFERENCE --QUITE HONESTLY, THEY LOVED AMERICA AND GUESS WHAT?

THERE WAS NO ILL TOWARDS OUR COUNTRY BY DOING SO, BUT THIS REPORT BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT I THINK IS SETTING UP A MILITARY ACTION.

WE ARE ALREADY IN A QUAGMIRE IN IRAN AND THIS IS MARCO RUBIO, PERSONAL SOUTH FLORIDA PET PROJECT, AND HE WANTS US TO GO INTO CUBA THAT I DON'T THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SUPPORT.

>> THE DOCTORS THAT YOU SAW SORT OF IMPROVISING IN THE DARK --AND YOU BRIEFLY TOUCHED ON THIS HAVE SENT THOUSANDS OF DOCTORS OVERSEAS TO BRING REGIME, HARD CURRENCY BACK HOME.

IS THIS AN EMBARGO PROBLEM THEN OR IS THIS THE CUBAN REGIME CHOOSING TO PRIORITIZE THEIR FUNDING DIFFERENTLY?

>> WELL, NO.

I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT FUNDING.

ONE OF THE THINGS THE U. S. GOVERNMENT CLAIMS IS WE WANT TO SEE PRIVATE ENTERPRISE AND WE MET PEOPLE WITH SMALL BUSINESSES.

ONE GENTLEMAN HAD BAKERIES AND HE HAD 400 EMPLOYEES AND NOW HE HAS 12 BECAUSE OF THE U. S. BLOCKADE.

HERE WE SAY WE WANT PRIVATE SECTOR DEVELOPMENT.

THEY JUST DID 176 REFORMS THAT THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS TOLD ME WOULD BE GOOD FOR HAVING A SMALL BUSINESS IN CUBA, AND YET WE DON'T RECOGNIZE THOSE BECAUSE WE ARE SETTING UP A FALSE NARRATIVE ABOUT WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY WANT TO HAVE THE U. S. INVEST.

THEY WANT TO HAVE SMALL BUSINESSES.

THEY'VE TOLD US THAT OVER AND OVER, SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AND THE PEOPLE IN THE NON-PROFIT SECTOR, AND WE'RE NOT ALLOWING ANY OF IT TO HAVE THE MOST TOTAL BLOCKADE THAT ANYONE IN THE COUNTRY HAS THIS.

WE'VE DONE IT FOR 65 YEARS AND MAYBE IT'S TIME TO GO BACK TO WHAT WE HAD UNDER BARACK OBAMA AND TRY TO DEVELOP A DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP.

>> EVERY ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS IMPOSED THESE SANCTIONS SAY THEY'RE SANCTIONING THE REGIME AND NOT THE PEOPLE.

FROM WHAT YOU'VE SEEN AND WHAT YOU'VE HEARD, DOES THIS DISTINCTION HOLD?

>> NO.

AGAIN, IT'S FANTASTICAL.

THAT'S WHY IF YOU WANT A GOOD READ AND YOU CAN'T SLEEP READ THE STATE DEPARTMENT REPORT.

IT'S PRETTY RIDICULOUS.

IT'S THE EXCUSE THE DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK.

IT'S ABOUT AS CREDIBLE.

THE DOG DOESN'T EAT EVERYONE'S HOMEWORK AND CUBA DOESN'T CAUSE EVERYTHING IN THE U. S. THEY'RE TRYING TO BLAME CUBA FOR BLACK LIVES MATTER AND PROTESTS, YOU NAME.

THIS IS A SMALL COUNTRY THAT CAN BARELY DO EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW AND YET STILL THEY'RE THE MASTERMIND.

TO ME THAT SMELLS LIKE A RAT.

IT DOESN'T PASS THE SMELL TEST.

I THINK THIS IS BEING SET UP TO DO SOMETHING LIKE WE SAW IN VENEZUELA AND IT WAS PARTIALLY RELATED TO CUBA.

THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, UNFORTUNATELY, IS LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT CUBA, SO NOT MANY VISUALS COME OUT AS YOU WELL KNOW AND COME BACK, SPEAK THE TRUTH AND MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T WIND UP IN ANOTHER DISASTROUS MILITARY INTERVENTION LIKE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IN THE MIDDLE OF IN IRAN.

>> SO AS YOU KNOW, THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAVE BEEN ACCUSED CUBA OF CHINESE INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS AND THE COUNTER YOU JUST LAID OUT IS THAT CUBA'S ECONOMY HAS BEEN MISMANAGED TO THE GROUND BY A STATE THAT CONTROLS EVERYTHING AND HAS FOR DECADES, AND HAS CRUSHED PRIVATE BUSINESS AND ENTERPRISE SO IT ISN'T BLAMING THE BARGO ITSELF, SORT OF TAKING AWAY ANY AGENCY THAT THE REGIME HAS AND HOW MUCH THEY OWN OF THE CURRENT SITUATION THERE?

>> LOOK.

THEY HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT STRUCTURE.

I CAN POINT OUT THINGS WE RAISED WITH THEMES THAT WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT LIKE CIVIL LIBERTIES.

>> WHAT DID YOU RAISE?

>> SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE IMPRISONED FIVE YEARS AGO FOR SPEAKING OUT.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT SPEAK OUT IN THE UNITED STATES AND WE THINK WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DO THAT.

HOWEVER, IF YOU DON'T ALLOW MEDICAL PARTS IN THE U. S. THAT'S NOT THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT'S PROBLEM.

THAT'S OUR PROBLEM AND THE BLOCKADE AND WE HAVE THAT IN SITUATIONS OF REAL WAR.

IT'S OUR TOTAL BLOCKADE THAT'S REALLY CAUSING THIS AND IT'S ULTIMATELY FELT BY THE PEOPLE OF CUBA.

THAT'S WHEN YOU TALK TO FOLKS.

IF THEY HAPPEN TO GET POWER DURING THE ROLLING BLACKOUTS AT 2:00 A. M. AND THEY GO TO WINDOWS AND BANG ON POTS AND PANS TO TELL EVERYONE TO WAKE UP.

THAT'S WHEN YOU CAN TAKE A SHOWER.

ONE WOMAN HADN'T HAD A SHOWER FOR EIGHT DAYS.

THEY COULDN'T USE THE REFRIGERATOR BECAUSE THEY HAD NO POWER.

WE DON'T ALLOW YOU TO BRING OIL IN FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY, AND IF YOU DO, WE'LL SANCTION YOU.

IT GOES BACK TO U. S. POLICY AND THE FACT THAT THEY DO HAVE, OVER MY VISITS TO CUBA, FAR MORE OF A PRIVATE SECTOR TRYING TO GROW, BUT AGAIN, THEY CAN'T GROW BECAUSE WE WON'T ALLOW ANYTHING THROUGH BECAUSE OF THE BLOCKADE.

EVERYTHING I SEE COMES BACK TO THIS TOTAL BLOCKADE.

IT'S NOT WORKING AT LEAST HOW WE CLAIM IT'S SUPPOSED TO AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE FOCUS HAS TO BE.

>> YOU MENTIONED A LOT OF FREEDOM OF POLITICAL EXPRESSION.

SO MANY LOCKED AWAY IN PRISONS THERE.

NOT BECAUSE THE POWER IS OUT, BUT THE REGIME DOESN'T ALLOW FOR DISSENT.

THERE ARE CONTINUED CONCERNS ABOUT THAT VERY ISSUE, LUIS MANUEL ALKANTARA HAS JUST ARRIVED IN THE UNITED STATES AND HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.

FOR ME, CUBA'S FUTURE IS THE RESULT OF MANY PEOPLE OVER'S PERIOD OF TIME.

THE FACT THAT THE U. S. GOVERNMENT IS SUPPORTING US RIGHT NOW IS GOOD AND IT ALSO REMAINS IN THE HANDS OF CUBA WHO HAVE TO BUILD EVERYTHING THAT'S NEEDED.

CUBA'S FUTURE DEPENDS ON US, THE CUBAN PEOPLE.

>> IS WASHINGTON DOING ENOUGH FOR DISSIDENTS LIKE THIS MAN WAS AND THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING JAILED IN CUBA?

>> YEAH.

SO THEY HAVE RELEASED A LOT OF THE PRISONERS.

THEY SAY THEY'LL RELEASE SOME MORE AND IT'S PART OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD AND IT'S OF CONCERN AND IT SHOULD BE AND THERE ARE SCORES OF COUNTRIES THAT WE HAVE CONCERNS WITH ON THIS FRONT, ABOUT BUT WE DON'T BLOCKADE THEM AS A NATION AND WE DON'T MAKE IT SO THEIR CT SCANNERS AND MRI MACHINES DON'T WORK BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET PARTS FROM THE UNITED STATES.

WHATEVER WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE HANDLE THE BLOCKADE AS MORE THAN A HAMMER ON THE CUBAN PEOPLE.

WE ALLOW THE ACCESS OF TRADE AND IF WE BELIEVE IN THE ACCESS OF GOVERNMENT THEN WE WILL ALLOW THE FREE FLOW LIKE UNDER BARACK OBAMA AND YOU WILL SEE NOT ONLY THE U. S. WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A NEIGHBOR 90 MILES OFF THE SHORE BY VACATIONING AND ENJOYING ASPECT PS OF S OF THE COUNTRY AND YOU WILL SEE THE COUNTRY THRIVE.

NOTHING BAD HAPPENED TO THE UNITED STATES DURING THAT PERIOD BECAUSE SO MUCH OF THIS IS OLD, COLD WAR ARGUMENTS.

IN FACT, ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF THIS REPORT IS ABOUT THE '60s AND '70s AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY JUMP TO TODAY AND SAY CUBA DID IT.

IT'S PROBABLY THE WORST REPORT I'VE READ IN THE 14 YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE AND WHOEVER WROTE IT SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED.

>> WHAT DO THEY SAY ABOUT THIS?

IS THERE AN APPETITE ABOUT A NEW CUBAN POLICY OR IS IT A LONELY POSITION THAT YOU AND A HAND FLG OF OTHER COLLEAGUES HAVE AT THIS POINT?

>> McGOVERN HAS LEGISLATION TO HELP LIFT THE BLOCKADE.

I BELIEVE MS.

VELASQUEZ FROM NEW YORK HAS A CASE AND DO AN INTERVENTION.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT AREN'T PART OF THE GROUP PI IT'S OUT OF CUBA.

THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH COMING THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE WHAT WE SAW, AND HAVING BEEN THERE THREE TIMES I CAN TELL YOU THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE WORST IT'S EVER BEEN AND DIRECTLY RELATED TO WHAT THE UNITED STATES IS DOING AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

GIVEN OUT, IT IS NOT JUST MY SISTER CITY, BUT ALSO SOMEONE WHO SERVES IN THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE WHO CARE ABOUT THIS, AND I'LL BE RAISING QUESTIONS WITH THE AMBASSADOR.

>> FINAL QUESTION.

HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE DIRECTLY ABOUT THIS?

>> NO, BUT THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE WANT TO DO.

THIS REPORT IS LITERALLY 100 PAGES.

I READ IT YESTERDAY.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T VEN KNOW IT'S OUT.

THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BLUEPRINT FOR AN INVASION, AND WE CANNOT HAVE ANOTHER QUAGMIRE ON TOP OF IRAN IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

>> KEEP US POSTED ON YOUR CONVERSATIONS THERE.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND THE EFFORT.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> ACROSS THE GLOBE, EXTREME HEAT IS GETTING WORSE AS THE REALITIES OF CLIMATE CHANGE MAKE THEMSELVES UNMISTAKENLY FELT.

IN SPAIN, THE LARGEST WILDFIRE OF THE YEAR IS STILL BURNING EVEN AS ANOTHER HEAT WAVE BEGINS.

LONDON IS BRACING FOR A SIX-DAY HEAT WAVE HAVING ENDURED A RECORD BREAKING JUNE, AND RECORDS ARE BEING SHATTERED THIS SUMMER IN THE UNITED STATES WITH WILDFIRES FROM CANADA CREATING A BREW OF TOXIC AIR BEING FELT ACROSS MULTIPLE STATES.

FOR MORE ON THIS LET'S BRING IN RADLEY HORTON, PROFESSOR OF CLIMATE AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY.

RADLEY, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK ON THE PROGRAM.

IT'S NOT A SUMMER WITHOUT A CONVERSATION WITH YOU, SADLY, ON EXTREME WEATHER, AND HERE WE ARE AGAIN.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHEN WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN LARGE PORTIONS OF THE NORTHEAST AND THE MIDWEST HERE AND THAT IS THE CANADIAN WILDFIRES.

CANADA'S REPORTING MORE THAN 840 ACTIVE FIRES, OVER 180 OF THEM CURRENTLY OUT OF CONTROL.

PUT THE SEASON INTO CONTEXT FOR US.

HOW UNUSUAL IS THIS FIRE ACTIVITY IN CANADA?

>> YEAH, SO, THUS FAR IT'S TOO EARLY TO SAY WHETHER 2026 WILL PROVE TO BE A TOP YEAR IN TERMS OF THE AREA BURNED.

WHAT WE CAN SAY IS THERE ARE VERY STRONG UP WITH YARD TRENDS AND WE HAVE SATELLITE RECORDS THAT GO BACK 50 YEARS OR SO, AND WE HAVE OTHERS THAT GO BACK LONGER.

WE CAN SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, 2023 WAS TWICE AS BAD AS ANY PRIOR YEAR.

2025 WAS THE SECOND WORST YEAR EVER, AND AS YOU INTIMATED, THIS YEAR IS OFF TO A REALLY ROUGH START WITH SO MANY FIRES BURNING OUT OF CONTROL.

THE NUMBERS AREN'T HUGE YET IN TERMS OF TOTAL AREA BURNED, BUT IT'S PART OF THIS UPWARD TREND THAT'S DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO HIGHER TEMPERATURES AND GLOBAL WARMING.

AND AFFECTING A HUGE PORTION OF THE POPULATION, NOT JUST IN CAN DAL AND MY EVIDENCE AS WELL THE AREAS BURNED BY CANADIAN WILDFIRES HAS NEARLY QUADRUPLED AND IT ATTRIBUTES THAT TO HUMAN-CAUSED CLIMATE CHANGE.

DO YOU BACK UP HIS THEORY THERE?

>> GENERALLY SPEAKING, I DO.

WHAT WE CAN SAY FOR SURE IS AIR TEMPERATURES GOING UP IS THE MOST DIRECT EFFECT OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE BURNING OF FOSSIL FUELS, AND WE SEE THAT SUMMER FIRE SEASON IN CANADA WARMED BY ALMOST 4 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT AND 2 DEGREES CELSIUS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS FOR EACH SINGLE DEGREE CELSIUS OF WARMING THERE'S 7% MORE MOISTURE THAT'S BASICALLY GOING TO GET SUCKED OUT OF ALL OF THE TREES, SUCKED OUT OF ALL OF THE VEGETATION SIMPLY BECAUSE THE HOTTER ATMOSPHERE DEMANDS MORE WATER, IF YOU WILL.

SO THIS IS A VERY DIRECT EFFECT AS WE SEE THOSE HIGHER TEMPERATURES, YOU WOULD HAVE NEEDED A LOT MORE RAINFALL JUST TO SORT OF MAINTAIN THE BALANCES OF THE PAST, AND THEN WE'RE ALSO SEEING MORE OF THESE INDIVIDUAL WEATHER EVENTS LIKE THIS ALL-TIME HIGHEST PRESSURE ASSOCIATED WITH VERY HOT TEMPERATURES OVER INDIVIDUAL DAYS AND THAT IS WHAT TAKESIO YOU FROM THE OVERALL DRYING AND TINDERBOXES THAT FORESTS ARE BECOMING ON FIRE WEATHER CONDITIONS THAT LET THESE THINGS EXPLODE.

THE NORTH SHORE OF LAKE SUPERIOR, THUNDER BAY AREA, NOT SOMEWHERE WE THINK OF AS GETTING INCREDIBLY HOT WAS CLOSE TO 40 DEGREES CELSIUS, 103 FAHRENHEIT MONDAY WHEN THESE MONDAYS STARTED TO EXPLODE.

AREAS FURTHER NORTH, 107 FAHRENHEIT.

THESE ARE REALLY, REALLY EXTREME TEMPERATURES AND WHILE A NUMBER OF FACTORS CAN ATTRIBUTE TO FIRE, WE CAN ATTRIBUTE THOSE HIGHER TEMPERATURES DUE TO GLOBAL WARMING AND BEING A CRITICAL FACTOR AND MAKING THEM SO MUCH WORSE.

WE'RE ALSO SEEING MORE LIGHTNING STRIKES, IT SEEM, THAT CAUSE SOME OF THE FIRES AS THE PLAINTIFFS DO DUE TO HUMAN ACTIVITIES.

>> AND THE PACE OF THESE GREWERS ARE QUITE STUNNING.

THE COMMUNITY OF THE FIRST NATION WAS FIRST TOLD THERE WAS NO IMMEDIATE DANGER AND HOURS LATER RESIDENTS WERE FLEEING BY BOAT AS FLAMES REACHED THE SHORELINE THERE.

ARE WARNING SYSTEMS EQUIPPED FOR THESE TYPES OF FIRES?

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO UPDATE THEM?

>> ABSOLUTELY THINGS NEED TO BE DONE.

IT'S INCREDIBLY CHALLENGING AND THAT'S ALL THE MORE REASON WHY WE HAVE TO DO MORE.

SO AS WE CAN ANTICIPATE THESE EXTREME FIRE WEATHER CONDITIONS , AND WE SEE THESE CONDITIONS COMING, SOME WILL NEED TO REMOVE THE VEGETATION NEARBY AND THAT HELP WILDFIRES JUMP AND WE GET THE CATASTROPHIC FIRE WEATHER.

THINGS CAN HAPPEN SO QUICKLY.

IT'S SUCH A DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU SEE THE FIRES JUMPING ACROSS THE CANOPY OVER A GREAT DISTANCE.

THERE'S SO MUCH MORE THAT WE NEED TO DO IN TERMS OF WARNING AND BE IN TERMS OF HAVING OUTLET PATH WEIS AND MULTIPLE ROLES OUT OF COMMUNITY AND THE SINGLE BIGGEST LONG-TERM THING THAT WE CAN DO IS PROFOUNDLY REDUCE OUR GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND THAT'S THE WAY TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURES AND TAKE A BIG STEP TOWARDS MAKING THESE, EVENTS SO MUCH LESS LIKELY AND DEADLY.

>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S VIEWS ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

AS IT RELATES TO THE CANADIAN FIRES, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS THREATENED CANADA ON POOR FOREST MANAGEMENT AND HAS IMPOSED TARIFFS OVER THE SMOKE CROSSING THE BORDER.

HE SAYS THEY'RE POISONING U. S. AIR.

AS A SCIENTIST, DOES BAD MANAGEMENT ACTUALLY HOLD UP HERE AS PERHAPS AN ARGUMENT AS TO WHY THESE FIRES HAVE IMPACTED SUCH LARGE PORTIONS OF THE UNITED STATES?

>> IRONICALLY, IT'S REALLY OVER THE WESTERN U. S. WHEN WE SEE THE FIRES THERE WHICH WE HAVE ALSO SEEN A STRONG UPWARD TREND.

THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE A STRONGER LINK TO FOREIGN MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE WESTERN U. S. HAS MUCH MORE OF A PERCENTAGE OF FOREST AREA THAT HAS BEEN MANAGED IN THE PAST.

MUCH OF CANADA HAS NO HISTORY OF FOREST MANAGEMENT.

A LOT OF THE NORTHERN REGIONS WHERE SOME OF THESE FEARS ARE ARE TOO VAST, TOO REMOTE FOR ANY KIND OF FOREST MANAGEMENT OR EXTRACTION, REALLY, TO BE POSSIBLE, SO THAT'S THE IRONY BEHIND THE STATEMENTS.

FOREST MANAGEMENT EVEN IN SOME PARTS OF CANADA IS MAYBE PART OF THE STORY, BUT THE PART THAT'S REALLY DUE TO HUMAN ACTIVITIES IS THIS INCREASE IN AIR TEMPERATURES.

SO IF YOU ARE LIVING RIGHT NEAR A MAJOR CITY THAT'S HAD A LOT OF FOREST MANAGEMENT, THEIR TEMPERATURE TRENDS WILL BE A BIG FACTOR AND YOU WILL THINK ABOUT TRENDS IN IGNITION.

ARE MORE FIRES GETTING STARTED BY PEOPLE INTENTIONALLY OR NOT INTENTIONALLY, AND ALSO THE HISTORY OF FOREST MANAGEMENT HAVE TREES BUILT UP INCLUDING DEAD TREES IN WAYS THAT LEAD TO BIGGER FLYERS.

THAT, GENERALLY SPEAKING A STORY MORE ABOUT CANADA AND THIS IS A STORY MORE ABOUT FIRE TEMPERATURES.

THEY'LL HAPPEN NATURALLY AND BE THAT MUCH MORE EXTREME WHEN THEY HAPPEN.

TO THE BROADER IRONY, OF COURSE, BECAUSE CANADA ISN'T ABLE TO MANAGE A LOT OF THE REMOTE FIRES AND DOESN'T HAVE ANY HISTORY OF MISMANAGEMENT, NOT ONLY BECAUSE THE U. S. HAS BEEN A SOURCE OF A LOT OF SMOKE AND A LOT OF DOWNSTREAM FIRE DAMAGE, BUT ALSO, THINK, BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT ATTRIBUTION ARGUMENT ONE STEP FURTHER AND THINK ABOUT RESPONSIBILITY LONGER TERM THE U. S. , OF COURSE, THREW SUCH A GREEN WALL IN EMITTING GREENHOUSE GASSES A MAJOR PLAYER AND A MAJOR DRIVER GLOBALLY IN THE FACT THAT WE'RE SEEING MORE EXTREME, MORE INTENSE, MORE DAMAGING FIRES.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

SO YOU SAY GIVEN THE FREQUENCY OF U. S. FIRES, SPECIFICALLY IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THIS COUNTRY THAT MANAGEMENT SHOULD BE BETTER THAN IT CURRENTLY IS, AND IT'S MORE RARE TO SEE THESE TYPES OF FIRES IN CANADA.

I'D LIKE TO GET TO SOME STATISTICS.

61% OF AMERICAN VOTERS SAY EXTREME WEATHER IS GETTING MORE FREQUENT.

INCLUDING IN THEM, HALF OF REPUBLICANS, YET THE WORLD RISK REPORT FINDS THAT OUT OF TEN COUNTRIES THE U. S. HAS THE SECOND LARGEST GAP BETWEEN HOW MANY PEOPLE THINK CLIMATE CHANGE THINK IS A SERIOUS THREAT VERSUS HOW MANY BELIEVE THEM MAKING THEMSELVES ISOLATED MINORITIES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK CAN BE DONE TO CHANGE THAT BECAUSE THERE SEEMS TO BE A DISCONNECT BETWEEN HOW PEOPLE AT HOME PRIVATELY ARE VIEWING CLIMATE CHANGE VERSUS HOW THEY PERCEIVE THEIR NEIGHBORS TO BE VIEWING IT.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION AND THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPONENTS.

SOME OF IT HAS TO DO WITH HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY AND THERE HAS BEEN A LARGE DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN ESPECIALLY FOCUSED ON THE U. S. THAT IT'S GOING ON TO THIS DAY, CONTINUING TO UNDERMINE THESE VERY BASIC, WELL- UNDERSTOOD SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES THAT GO BACK OVER 100 YEARS NOW.

HUMAN ACTIVITIES AND THE BURNING OF FOSSIL FUELS ARE INCREASING AIR TEMPERATURES.

THEY ARE CAUSING MORE EXTREME EVENTS OF VARIOUS TYPES WHETHER IT'S REALLY-Y RAIN EVENTS AND EXCEPTIONAL HEAT WAVES, WHETHER IT'S MORE FIRES IN AREA, FOR EXAMPLE, SO PART OF NAH IS THIS DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN.

>> YEAH.

RADLEY HORTON, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.

WE'LL STAY IN TOUCH WITH YOU AS THE SUMMER CONTINUES.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

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>> THANK YOU.

> >> THE WORD LIBERAL IS EVERYWHERE IN POLITICS AND OUR NEXT GUEST ARGUES THAT LIBERALISM IS ONE OF THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD TERMS IN OUR POLITICAL VOCABULARY.

AUTHOR AND BLOOMBERG COLUMNIST ADRIAN WOODRIDGE SITS WITH ISAACSON.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

LIBERALISM NOW HAS TWO MEANINGS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, IT'S LIKE CLASSIC LIBERALISM ON THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUAL STEMMING FROM JOHN LOCKE, I'D SAY, AND LIBERALISM IN THE POLITICAL SENSE WHICH TENDS TO IMPLY BIG STATE, BIG GOVERNMENT SPENDING PROGRAMS AND TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY LIBERALISMS AND WHY DO WE HAVE TWO DEFINITIONS OF IT?

>> ONE IS INDIVIDUALISM, AND IT'S A POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY THAT STARTS WITH THE INDIVIDUAL AND WORKS UPWARD AND OUTWARDS.

THE LIBERAL IS CONCERNED THAT THE RIGHT'S DUTIES AND SELF-DEVELOPMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

SECONDLY, IT'S A BELIEF AND THE NOTION OF TOLERANCE.

WE MUST BE TOLERANT OF OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS AND THE ONLY WAY TO COME TO THE TRUTH OR TO ELIMINATE ERROR AT THE VERY LEAST IS THROUGH OPEN DEBATE AND TOLERANCE AS HUMANS AND SOCIETY AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE LIVING IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND THE THIRD THING IS SKEPTICISM ABOUT POWER, SAYING THAT POWER --ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS AND IT'S THIS DANGEROUS DRUG AND THERE FOR RIGHTS AND THOSE ARE THE THREE BIG ISSUES OF LIBERALISM.

THE ISSUE WHETHER IT'S A SMALL STATE -- YOU CAN BE A LIBERAL AND SUPPORT A SMALL STATE.

KAINE WAS A LIBERAL AND WANTED A LIBERAL STATE.

THERE WAS A SECONDARY THINGS, AND THE THREE ESSENTIAL THINGS ARE TOLERANCE, SKEPTICISM ABOUT POWER AND A COMMITMENT TO INDIVIDUALISM, AND I THINK IN THE 1990s THERE WERE ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE STATE AND WE HAD PEOPLE WHO WANTED SMALL STATES, AND OTHER PEOPLE WERE LIBERALS AND THAT WAS A BIT OF A DECEPTION ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND I THINK WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE THAT DECEPTION, THAT CONFUSION IN THE 1990s BECAUSE WE WERE ALL, BASICALLY, LIBERALS.

EVERYONE YEAHED ON THE BIG THINGS THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, THE ERA OF LIBERAL -- >> LET ME PUT A PIN ON THAT.

YOU THINK THAT PRESIDENT REAGAN AND PRIME MINISTER THATCHER WERE LIBERALS IN THAT SENSE JUST AS TONY BLAIR AND BILL CLINTON WERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> YEAH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

GEORGE W. BUSH, BUT THERE WAS A BIG ARGUMENT ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE STATE.

THATCHER WAS ON ONE SIDE, TO SOME EXTENT AND CLINTON BLAIR WERE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

NOW WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD.

WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD WHERE YOU HAVE AUTOCRATS ON THE MARCH WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN INDIVIDUALISM, WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN SEPARATING POWERS, WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN TOLERANCE.

PUTIN AND IT'S THE BIGGEST ECONOMY OF THE WAR IS POWER.

YOU HAVE TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO, I THINK, DOESN'T AGREE WITH A LOT OF THINGS THAT GEORGE BUSH OR GEORGE H. W. BUSH THOUGHT WAS ESSENTIAL.

WE HAVE TO STOP FOCUSING ON THE SECONDARY DEBATE ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE STATE AND ALL OF US, AS LIBERALS WHETHER WE ARE BIG STATE LIBERALS OR SMALL STATE LIBERALS HAS TO AGREE THAT WE WILL SERVE THE FUNDAMENTAL VAT YOUS THAT WE HAVE TO AGREE TO DEFEND, AND THOSE VALUES ARE UNDER ATTACK THAN WE HAD AT ANY POINTS OF THE 1930s.

WHEN YOU SAY A SECONDARY, YOU HAVE A REALLY BIG STATE OR A SMALL STATE AND THAT SEEMS CONNECTED TO LIBERALISM.

A VERY BIG STATE TAXING A WHOLE LOT WOULD IN SOME WAYS SEEM TO BE COUNT ER TO BASIC LIBERALISM, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> NO, THE ONLY WAY TO THE BIG STATE CAN BE A LIBERAL ARGUMENT.

IF YOU SAY NEED A BIGGER STATE IN ORDER TO GIVE OPPORTUNITY AND IN ORDER TO GIVE CONDITIONS WHERE THEY CAN DEVELOP THEIR CHARACTERS AND PERSONALITIES AND INTO BEING ONE PEOPLE, YOU NEED PENSIONS OR NEED SOCIAL ASSISTANCE, IF WE'RE DOING THAT TO GIVE YOU THE QUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY, TO GIVE THEM THE CAPACITY TO DEVELOP THOSE AS INDIVIDUALS, I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARILY A LIBERAL.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THE BIG SPACE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO HAVE THOSE IMPOSED ON SOCIETY BECAUSE THEY WANT SOCIETY TO MARCH TOGETHER AS A SINGLE, DISCIPLINED UNIT AND A REGIME AND IT'S ANTI-LIBERAL.

CLINTON BELIEVES IN THE BIG STATE, AND HE'S ANTI-LIBERAL.

YOU HAD LYNDON JOHNSON --THAT WAS -- THAT WAS, THAT WAS, BECAUSE THEY WERE DOING THESE THINGS TO EMANCIPATE THE INDIVIDUAL AND TO ALLOW THE INDIVIDUAL TO ACHIEVE THEIR BEST IN PEA.

>> SAID OUR WAY SDPSHGS IT GOING TO AFFECT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

>> ONE COMES FROM THE RIGHT WHICH BELIEVES IN POWER AND BELIEVES IN PUTTING PEOPLE INTO CERTAIN CATEGORIES, BUT IT COMES FROM THE LEFT AND THAT IS BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE LEFT THAT ARE OBSESSED WITH GENDER, BIOLOGICAL CATEGORIES.

YOU SAY THAT YOU WERE BORN INTO A CERTAIN ROLE IN LIFE BECAUSE OF WHO YOU ARE, AND THAT YOU CANNOT TRANSCEND THAT WERE THROUGH HEALTH.

THERE ARE THREATS ON THE LEFT AND THREATS ON THE RIGHT BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THE CONCEPTUAL OF SIZE AND THE INDIVIDUALIST.

>> AND YOU SAY THAT IN THE BOOK.

YOU SAY THAT THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT IS AS LIBERAL AS THE TRUMPIAN RIGHT, BUT LOOK, IT SEEMS LIKE A BIT OF AN EQUIVALENCE, AND PUSH BACK, ARE THEY THE SAME AS THE PRESIDENT THAT REFUSES TO ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF AN ELECTION?

>> I THINK YOU HAVE A POINT THERE.

I SHOULD HAVE TAKEN A LOOK AT MORE, THOUGH, IT WAS MORE A RESULT OF THE ELECTION, I THINK, AND THE FIRST TRUMP TERM WE HAD A PRESIDENT WHO WAS SOMEWHAT CONSTRAINED UNTIL THE VERY END.

WE HAVE I MUCH MORE SELF- CONFIDENT, AND I THINK THAT HE HAS OVERSTEPPED THE MARK ON MORE AND MORE OCCASIONS, AND I DO THINK IT WAS A BIGGER THREAT FROM THE RICE.

HOWEVER, I DON'T THINK IF YOU'RE A PROFESSOR OR COLLEGE XHUNT, YOU WOULD BE GOVERNING TO THE IMPORTANTANCE OF DEBATE, TOLERANCE AND A FREE EXCHANGE OF VIEWS AND TO SHAKE PEOPLE DOWN IF A LEARNING ENVIRONMENT IS EXTREMELY DESTRUCTIVE AND DANGEROUS.

IF THOSE PEOPLE GET POWER THEY ARE MORE LIKELY, IF THEY START OFF IN THE POSITION OF BECOMING .

IT IS THE -- [ INDISCERNIBLE ] >> TRUMP'S NEVER PRETENDED TO BE IN THE BOOK.

THE PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO BE LIBERALS ARE NOT ACTING IN A LIBERAL FASHION.

>> DO YOU THINK THE LEFT AS YOU CALLED IT OR FOR THAT MATTER, SELF-INDULGENT LIBERALISM, AS YOU SAY HAPPENED IN THE '90s OR THE EARLY 2000, DID THAT PAVE THE WAY FOR TRUMP, AND IF SO, HOW?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SOMETHING HAPPENED IN THE 1980s AND 1990s THAT PREPARED THE WAY FOR THE GENERAL CRISIS OF LIBERALISM WHICH LED TO TRUMP, AND THAT THING WAS THAT WE ABANDONED THE PUBLIC SQUARE THAT ABANDONED THE NOTION OF THE WAR WHERE WE HAD DUTIES AND CONSTRAINTS AS WELL AS FREEDOM AND WE HAD THE STRANGE MARRIAGE OF TWO SORTS OF LIBERALISM.

ONE WAS THE LIBERALISM OF THE 1960s WHICH WAS JUST GO HANG, AND THE SECOND WAS THE THATCHER AND REAGAN.

THE MARKET'S BUSINESS SHOULD ALL BE GOVERNMENT AND THAT'S PUSHED AWAY A WHOLE SET OF CONSTRAINTS, CONSTRAINTS IN THE WAY THAT CAPITALISM OPERATES AND CONSTRAINTS ON THE WAY INDIVIDUALS TEND TO COOPERATE.

I THINK THAT DOUBLE LIBERALISM CAN DO AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF GOOD FOR A WHILE.

IT CREATED GREAT MILEAGE AND GOT RID OF OVERMIGHTY COMPANIES THAT WERE RUNNING THINGS VERY BADLY.

IT GAVE THE ECONOMY A BURST, BUT I THINK THE FULL CONSEQUENCE OF THAT CAME MUCH MORE DANGEROUS IN TWO WAYS.

ONE THE NOTION OF THE PUBLIC GOOD AND PUBLIC CONSTRAINTS AND SECONDLY, IT'S EMPOWERED SELF-SEEKING REMEMBER TO OF CAPITALISM, AND SO YOU HAD A SOCIETY IN WHICH EVERYBODY WAS MAXIMIZING THEIR FUTILITY.

THEY WERE SAYING WE MUSTN'T HAVE LIBERATION CONTROLS AND WE MUST DECIDE TO INTO --THEY'RE BOTH REVOLUTIONARIES DID ULTIMATELY LEAD TO TRUMP, AND IN SOME WAYS TRUMP IS A BUSINESSMAN AND THIS EMBODIMENT OF BOTH THOSE REVOLUTIONS?

YOU SAY PART OF A LIBERAL REVOLUTION OF THE 1990s WAS ALLOWING MORE OPEN BORDERS AND FREE IMMIGRATION WHICH SEEMS TO BE A TENET IN SOME WAYS, FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE SHOULD BE A TENET OF LIBERALISM, AND THERE WAS SOMETHING IN YOUR BOOK, AND I'M GOING TO READ IT TO YOU BECAUSE IT WAS SO TOUGH IN WHICH YOU SAID, SWEDEN SUFFERS FROM THE HIGHEST RATE OF DEATH BY SHOOTING IN EUROPE THANKS TO THE PROLIFERATION OF IMMIGRANT GANGS.

THE BRITISH NORTHERN CITIES THAT POWERED THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION IS THREATENING BY AN ENCLAVE WITH PUNISHMENT AND GANGS.

THAT WAS THE RESULT OF THESE IMMIGRATION POLICIES, YOU SAY.

DON'T LIBERAL IMMIGRATION POLICIES, ISN'T THAT AT THE HEART OF TOLERANCE OR DIVERSITY THAT A LIBERAL SHOULD BELIEVE IN?

>> WHAT YOU WILL READ IN MY BOOK IS LIBERALISM IS RESPONSE --YOU HAVE TO HAVE MORE UMBRELLA.

>> I THINK IN THE 90s AND THE 2000s WHO SAID IMMIGRATION COULD ONLY BE GOOD.

GOOD ECONOMICALLY AND GOOD CULTURE BECAUSE IT LED TO MORE PLURALISM AND VALUES AND LIFESTYLES AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND IT'S A WELLIC RAL THING TO DO.

I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO LIBERALISM IS COMING FROM THE PUBLIC REACTION TO VERY HIGH LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION, AND THAT THOSE HIGH LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION HAVE SOMETIMES LED TO VERY GOOD THINGS AND NOT ALWAYS LED TO VERY GOOD THINGS.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM OF ASSIMILATION IN THE UNITED KINGDOM.

IN SWEDEN, WE HAVE A MASSIVE NUMBER OF GANG VIOLENCE IN COMMUNITIES, AND WHERE YOU GET IF YOU GET THAT SOCIETY IS SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL, BY OVER LIBERAL POLICIES IS YOU GET TRUMPISM OR YOU GET IN SWEDEN DEMOCRATS PART OF THE PARTY, A PART OF GOVERNMENT.

SO THERE'S A PRACTICAL ARGUMENT THAT WE NEED TO HAVE CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS IN ORDER TO PREVENT THE BAD GUYS FROM GETTING IN, BUT THERE'S ALSO A BIGGER ARGUMENT THAN THAT AND IT ISN'T JUST THATS ISSITY ISN'T JUST ATOMIZED INDIVIDUALS PURSUING THEIR INTERESTS AND IT WOULD BE COOL TO HAVE SIMILAR --LIBERALISM WENT TOO FAR IN ONE PARTICULAR MARKET AND DIRECTION, AND WE NEED TO SAVE LIBERALISM BY MAKING IT A BIT MORE TOWARDS A MORE RESTRAINT ON THE MARKET AND PARTICULARLY WITH TECH.

MORE SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY AND NOT JUST INDIVIDUALS DOING THEIR OWN THING.

>> LET ME TAKE YOU BACK IN HISTORY BECAUSE MORE THAN A HUNDRED YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE IN A PERIOD VERY MUCH LIKE THIS ONE WITH HUGE TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGE, PROBABLY LIKE TECH CHANGE WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, WE HAD ELECTRICITY AND LIGHT BULBS, AND TERRAIN --IT ALSO LED LIBERALISM TO REINVENT ITSELF.

TELL ME HOW LIBERALISM REINVENTED ITSELF IN THE EARLY 1900s AND WHAT THE LESSONS ARE FOR TODAY.

>> IT'S CENTRAL TO THE ARGUMENT OF MY BOOK BECAUSE IT HAS SIMILAR WAYS, AND I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF 19th CENTURY.

Y BELIEVE -- SUPREMACY BEING THE VSHALL AND THE MARKETS --AND THE STATE INTERVENTION WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS REGARDED AS VERY BAD.

BOTH IN THE UNITED STATES, GROVER CLEVELAND OR --AT THE END OF HIS CAREER WHO CLUNG TO THAT IDEA.

THEY HATED THE NOTION OF STATE INTERVENTION.

OTHER LIBERALS SAY IF WE GO TO THE DOCTRINE WE KNOW WE'LL BE ON THE WINNING SIDE OF HISTORY BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE GETTING IS THE RISE OF DEMOCRACY.

IN HAD A DEMOCRACY IN THAT PERIOD, AND DEMOCRACY REALLY DIDN'T.

WE'RE GETTING THE RISE OF GREAT, BIG, MASSIVE INDUSTRY.

SO IT'S NOT JUST A FREE MARKET TRANSACTION AND THERE ARE COOPERATIONS AND HUGE ENTITIES, AND WE HAVE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS OF INDUSTRIALIZATION IN TERM WAS SEWAGE AND LACK OF CHAOS AND INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE STREETS.

THEY SAID IN ORDER TO SAVE CAPITALISM AND IN ORDER TO SAVE LIBERALISM AND BASED ON THE INDIVIDUAL, WE NEED A MORE ACTIVE STATE.

IT WAS VERY INTERESTING HERE BECAUSE HE SAID THAT THE INDIVIDUAL, PARTICULAR LY OUR INDIVIDUALS ARE INHERITING FORTUNES AND FOR THE BATTLE OF LIFE, AS HE SAW IT, BUT HE ALSO SAID FUNDAMENTALLY, THAT IF YOU GET GIANT CORPORATIONS THAT CONTROL THE ECONOMY, YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN FREE MARKETS AND HE WAS A SUPPORTER OF ANTITRUST AND ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO HAVE ANTITRUST IN THAT WAY.

YOU HAD THE INVENTION OF THE PROTOTYPE AND FREE EDUCATION IN SCHOOLS, AND PENSION PROVISION AND MORE ACTIVE ROLE FOR THE STATE WITH PEOPLE, LIBERALS, AND ALL OF THIS WAS PREDICATED ON THE IDEA THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT INDIVIDUALS COULD FLOURISH IN A MASS SOCIETY, DOMINATED BY BIG CORPORATIONS WAS FOR THE STATE TO MAKE A --TO TAKE A MORE ACTIVE ROLE, AND I THINK A LOT OF THOSE PROBLEMS ARE BEING RE-PRESENTED TO US BY THE CURRENT DIGITAL REVOLUTIONS AND A LOT OF THE SOLUTIONS REQUIRE US TO BE MORE ACTIVE IN RELATION TO THE STATE.

IN THE 1980s AND THE 1990s, LIBERALISM BECAME A DOCTRINE THAT SAID THE MARKET IS GOOD AND BUSINESS IS GOOD.

WE SHOULD GIVE BIG BUSINESS AND IT ALLOWS US TO DO IT ONCE, AND THAT'S STILL THE IDEOLOGY OF A LOT OF PEOPLE AND CENTRIST DEMOCRATS, I WOULD SAY, AND I WOULD SAY THAT WE NEED TO BE MUCH MORE ACTIVE IN DEALING WITH THE BIG TECH COMPANIES.

THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD ALLOW US TO BE FOR TWO REASONS.

ONE IS THEY'VE GOT TOO MUCH POWER AND GO BACK TO THE FORMULATION THAT POWER CORRUPTS AND IT IS A WARNING ABOUT A PRIVATE SECTOR AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC SECTOR AND ALSO THEY ARE SELLING US AND THE WAY THAT THEY'RE SELLING US LEADS TO ADDITION, DISTRACTION.

DESTROYS HABITS OF CONCENTRATION AND HABITS OF SELF-CONTROL THAT ARE FUNDAMENTALLY THREATENING TO THE ESSENCE OF A LIBERAL SOCIETY AND THE ESSENCE OF LIBERAL SOCIETIES IS A SELF-CONTROLLED AND SELF- CONSCIOUS INDIVIDUAL.

>> ADRIAN WALDRIJ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP SIGN UP FOR AMANPOUR.

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JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.