>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ANOTHER EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

WE HAVE A GREAT PROGRAM COMING YOUR WAY THIS WEEKING INCLUDING A VISIT WITH FUTURE BASEBALL HALL-OF-FAMER TED SIMMONS WHO GETS INDUCTED IN THE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME IN COOPERSTOWN, NEW YORK O SEPTEMBER THE 8th.

ALVIN REID AND I WILL BE POSING QUESTIONS MR. SIMMONS' WAY.

LET'S MEET THE PANELISTS TALKING GT HOT TOPICS THERE WEEK, STARTING WITH THE COHOST OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW ON THE BIG 550 KTRS WENDY WIESE.

SHE'S ALSO THE NEWS DIRECTOR THERE.

HE'S CELEBRATING A BIG BIRTHDAY TOMORROW.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BILL McCLELLAN FROM YOUR ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

FROM RAWSTORY.COM, THE RIVERFRONT TIMES AND THE BIG 550, RAY HARTMANN.

AND THE NEWS EDITOR FOR THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, GIVE IT UP FOR IN ALVIN REID.

AND BILL, WE ALL WISH YOU A HAPPY BIRTHDAY ON THIS THE EVE OF YOUR BIRTHDAY.

>> HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

>> WENDY WAS NICE ENOUGH TO SEND ME A CARD.

EVERYBODY ELSE FORGOT.

>> ONE MORE DAY.

>> LIKE I SAID, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

>> HEY, A PROGRAMMING NOTE.

ON TUESDAY AT 7:00, OUR PROGRAM ITOW, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, CHUCK BERRY, THE FATHER OF ROCK AND ROLL, BORN IN ST. LOUIS AND SPENT HIS ENTIRE HIGH OF HERE, WILL BE PROFILED AND YOU CAN SEE THAT RIGHT HERE ON NINE PBS.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THAT, INCLUDING YOU, BILL.

IT WAS YOUR IDEA WAY LONG AGO IN ONE OF YOUR COLUMNS THAT THERE SHOULD BE A STATUE FOR CHUCK BERRY AND NEXT WEEK IS THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF THAT STATUE.

SOMETHING MONUMENTAL TODAY, THE SUPREME COURT IN A UNANIMOUS DECISION DECIDED EXPANDING MEDICAID THE WAY THE VOTERS DID IT A SUMMER AGO IS NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL, SO THAT SOUNDS LIKE GOOD NEWS FOR THE THE VERY POOR MISSOURIANS NOW RECEIVING McFROM THE STATE.

DID YOU HAVE ANY TAKE AWAY ON THE COURT AND ITS DECISION?

>> THE TAKEAWAY I HAVE, FIRST OF ALL, IT WASN'T SURPRISING, BUT WE ARE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

IN THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, IT'S CONSERVATIVE AND THEY'RE GOING TO RULE THE DAY FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND REIN IN THE LIBERALS, AND IN MISSOURI, WE HAVE A LIBERAL SUPREME COURT THAT'S GOING TO REIN IN THE CONSERVATIVES, AND THAT'S REALLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE SELECT OUR SUPREME COURT JUDGES, AS THEY CALL.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THAT MISSOURI SYSTEM WHERE THE GOVERNOR GETS THREE NAMES HE CAN PICK AND THE TRIAL ATTORNEYS, WHO ARE LIBERAL BY NATURE, PRETTY MUCH CONTROL THE SELECTION PROCESS AND SO THE GOVERNOR NEVER GETS, EVEN A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNOR, NEVER REALLY GETS MANY HARDCORE CONSERVE PERSPECTIVES.

SO WE HAVE A LEFT-LEANING SUPREME COURT AND IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT THEY HAVE REBUKED THE RIGHT -- HARD RIGHT-LEANING LEGISLATURE.

>> IF I'M GOING TO -- >> GO AHEAD.

>> I ONLY PARTLY AGREE WITH THE BIRTHDAY BOY.

I WOULDN'T CALL IT LIBERALS.

THE COURT IS MORE -- IT IS MODERATE AND THAT MAKES IT LOOK LIBERAL.

I DON'T THINK MANY OF THE JUDGES ON THE SUPREME COURT WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS LIBERAL ANYMORE, BUT I THINK YOU GOT A GENERAL POINT THAT IT'S DIFFERENT THAN IT IS IN -- WELL, LET ME JUST GET TO THE POINT I WAS GOING TO MAKE AND THAT IS, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, WHAT, JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO WHEN THE JUDGE RULED AGAINST MEDICAID AND BASED ON HAVING HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE GREG WILLER, OUR KTRS LEGAL ANALYST, EXPLAIN THERE TO ME, HE MADE THE POINT THAT THAT DID NOT IMPACT EITHER SIDE, UNLIKE A LOT OF CIVIL CASES, WHAT THE SUPREME COURT MIGHT DO AND HE SURE EXPLAINED THAT WELL.

AND I WAS SURPRISED THAT IT WAS UNANIMOUS, AND WHAT A SETBACK FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GOING TO SPIN THIS.

I THINK THE ONLY QUESTION REMAINING IS WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO SOMEHOW THINK THIS IS STILL, IN 2022, SOMETHING THEY WANT TO MOAN ABOUT AND DO ALL THIS KIND OF LIKE DRUG TESTING AND WHATEVER ELSE THEY WANT TO DO SO TORTURE THESE RECIPIENTS.

>> WELL, I WAS GOING TO -- YOU KIND OF THREW ME A LITTLE SOFTBALL THERE T RAY, BUT NOT REALLY.

I WAS GOING TO SAY THIS IS NOT A SETBACK FOR ANYBODY.

THIS IS LIKE A -- AND I HATE WIN-WIN.

WENT PEOPLE SAY WIN-WIN, I HATE THAT SAYING, BUT I THINK CONSERVATIVES KNEW THAT WE'RE GOING TO LOSE WHEN WE GET TO THE STATE SPROURPS, SO -- SUPREME COURT, SO LET'S PUSH IT AS FAR AS WE CAN.

NEVER MIND HOW MUCH MONEY WE WASTE AND ERIC SCHMITT AND ALL THAT, BUT THEY KNEW THIS WAS COMING.

AND THOSE THAT STOOD FAST, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN HEALTHCARE, IT'S A WIN FOR THEM AND IF YOU'RE AN ACTIVISTING LIKE TO PROTEST AND ALL THAT, IT'S A WIN FOR YOU BECAUSE WE PUT PRESSURE ON THEM.

SO EVERYBODY WALKS AWAY, I THINK, WITH WHAT THEY ULTIMATELY GOT.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE VOTERS BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE VOTED TO SAY DO IT AND NOW HOPEFULLY IT'S GOING TO GET DONE.

>> GOOD POINT, ALVIN, BECAUSE IF IT HADN'T GONE THROUGH, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT OF PEOPLE IN RURAL MISSOURI HURT AND RURAL HOSPITALS MIGHT HAVE CLOSED AND THE REPUBLICANS MIGHT HAVE HAD TO PAY A PRICE.

BUT THIS WAY, THERE'S NO PRICE TO BE PAID.

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT.

ALTHOUGH I MIGHT DISAGREE WITH YOU, QUIBBLE WITH YOU, BILL, BECAUSE YOU SAY A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT BE HURT.

275,000 PEOPLE IS JUST 4% OF THE MISSOURI POPULATION AND WHILE A MAJORITY OF MISSOURIANS VOTED FOR THIS IN A RED STATE, ACTUALLY IT DOES HELP A RELATIVELY INSTALL NUMBER.

LESS THAN -- >> NEW YORK -- NO, IT DOESN'T.

IT HELPS THE ENTIRE STATE.

>> I'M TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO GET THE HELP.

>> THE NUMBERS REPRESENT HUMAN BEINGS, SO EVEN THOUGH -- >> THERE'S NOT, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE ALL GETTING CHECKS.

WE'LL PUT IT THAT WAY.

>> WE ARE, CHARLIE, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T -- IT.

>> DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY LESS NECESSARY.

>> LET'S MOVE ON TO THE NEXT TOPIC AND THAT WOULD BE SHOULD KIM GARDNER, THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY, BE REMOVED OR CENSURED OR IS THERE SOME OTHER MECHANISM FOR HER TO BE PUNISHED, I DON'T KNOW, AFTER REALLY A HORRIBLE WEEK.

WHAT HAPPENED?

HER OFFICE ALMOST 30 TIMES ENTERED THE SIGNATURE OF ONE OF THE LAWYERS ON DOCUMENTS WITHOUT THE LAWYER'S KNOWLEDGE.

THAT LAWYER, THE LEAD HOMICIDE PROSECUTOR, QUIT YESTERDAY.

KIM GARDNER'S OFFICE HAS BEEN FOUND TO HAVE DISMISSED TWICE AS MANY CASES, 36%, THAN THE PREDECESSOR, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY AROUND 10 TO 15%.

THIS WEEK, THREE MURDER CASES WERE DISMISSED.

IN ONE CASE, ONE OF HER ATTORNEYS FAILED TO SHOW UP IN COURT THREE TIMES, SO THE JUDGE LET OUT THIS MAN ACCUSED OF MURDER WHOSE ACTIONS, BY THE WAY, WERE CAPTURED ON SURVEILLANCE TAPE.

HE'S NOW AT LARGE.

WENDY, IS THERE A PRICE TO PAY, ASIDE FROM TOUGH OPINION IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI OR AT LEAST IN OUR AREA, FOR KIM GARDNER?

>> I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE A TOUGH PRICE TO PAY FOR KIM GARDNER AMONG THE VOTERS IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, WHO JUST RE-ELECTED HER, BUT FOR THE REST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CITY AND THE REGION AND THE STATE WHO ARE JUST GOBSMACKED BY THESE EVENTS, NUMBER ONE, SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE OR AN INVESTIGATION, I'M SURE, IS ALREADY UNDER WAY ABOUT HOW YOU HAVE SIGNATURES APPEARING FOR THE ATTORNEY WHO HAS RESIGNED WHILE SHE WAS ON MATERNITY LEAVE.

THAT IS VERY -- IF THAT KIND OF THING IS GOING ON, IF SIGNATURES ARE BEING FORGED IN THE OFFICE OF THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY, THAT'S WORTHY OF SOME EXAMINATION.

RANDY MOORE, THE VICTIM OF BRANDON CAMPBELL, LAST TIME THE MARSHALS HAD TO APPREHEND CAMPBELL WHEN HE WAS RELEASED, THEY HAD TO GO AS FAR AS TEXAS TO BRING HIM BACK.

WHO KNOWS WHERE HE IS AT THIS POINT, BUT HIS VICTIM'S FAMILY FOUND OUT ABOUT IT FROM CHRISTINE BYERS IN HER REPORT ON CHANNEL 5.

THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DIDN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO ALERT THE FAMILY TO THE FACT THAT BRANDON CAMPBELL WAS BEING RELEASED.

THIS IS CHAOS IN AN OFFICE THAT CANNOT AFFORD TO CREATE CHAOS.

SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY THE LEGAL WAY TO GO ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HAVING SOME KIND OF PENALTY PAID, BUT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE, CLEARLY.

>> ANOTHER THING THAT STRUCK ME IS JOEL COURIER IN THE POST-DISPATCH WROTE A STORY ABOUT THIS AND QUOTED NICK DODOS, A PROMINENT DEFENSE AND HE SAID THAT THE LAST TWO YEARS, HE COULDN'T REACH ANYBODY TO TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL DEALS.

I THOUGHT, HERE'S THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WITH NO TRIALS BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC AND ONE WOULD THINK THAT DURING THIS, LIKE, YEAR AWAY FROM TRIALS, KIM GARDNER WOULD HAVE HER PEOPLE LOOKING OVER FILES AND TRYING TO DETERMINE IF WE CAN MAKE A DEAL ON THIS ONE OR MAYBE THE EVIDENCE IS A LITTLE LIGHT HERE.

LET'S AT LEAST TALK TO THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS AND SEE WHAT WE CAN GET GOING.

AND INSTEAD, THEY WERE -- KIM GARDNER'S OFFICE WASN'T EVEN RETURNING THE PHONE CALLS OF SOMEBODY LIKE NICK ZONOS.

I THOUGHT, WHAT ARE THEY DOING OVER THERE?

>> BUT RAY HARTMANN, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE JUDGE IS ALSO TO BLAME BECAUSE HE ALLOWED A MAN WHO WAS CAUGHT ON TAPE MURDERING ANOTHER MAN, TO BE RELEASED AND NOW HE'S AT LARGE AND NOBODY KNOWS WHERE THIS BRANDON CAMPBELL IS.

>> YES, I DO.

NOT TO DISPARAGE THE JUDGE.

THE FACT IS ONE STEP -- HE COULDN'T -- NOW, HE HAS TO RELEASE HIM IF HE GOT THE CASE DROPPED, BUT ONE STEP HE COULD HAVE TAKEN -- I TALKED TO A BUNCH OF FOLKS TODAY ABOUT THIS -- IS HE COULD HAVE BASICALLY TOLD WHOEVER WAS FAILING TO HANDLE THIS CASE PROPERLY IN THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE IN CONTEMPT OF COURT AND THEY WERE GOING TO DO TIME IF THEY DID NOT COME FORWARD WITH THE DISCOVERY THEY NEEDED OR DID NOT -- NEXT TIME THEY MISSED A COURT DATE, AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH PREFERABLE WAY TO HANDLE THIS THAN TO RELEASE A MURDERER, OF ALL PEOPLE, WHO NOW NOT ONLY POSES POTENTIALLY -- AND WENDY IS RIGHT, HE'S FLED BEFORE, BUT -- I'M SORRY, ACCUSED MURDERER, BUT THE POINT IS HE'S A POTENTIAL THREAT TO THE VICTIM, HE'S A POTENTIAL THREAT TO WITNESSES.

AND THE COPS WHO MIGHT TRY TO ARREST HIM.

HE DID NOT -- YOU CAN TALK ABOUT ANY WAY YOU WANT, HE DID NOT HAVE TO GO TO THAT STEP YET.

HE COULD HAVE DONE MORE TO -- >> BUT RAY, RAY -- >> AND I THINK HE DID IT TO MAKE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF GARDNER ON THIS.

>> BUT LET ME SAY, FIRST OF ALL, THE IDEA OF WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, PUT THIS ATTORNEY IN CONTEMPT OF COURT, RAY, SHE WAS ON MATERNITY LEAVE.

I MEAN, YOU CAN'T -- >> THEN SOMEBODY ELSE.

>> WHO THEY FORGED THE SIGNATURE OF, BUT I THINK AS TERRIBLE AS IT IS THAT WE'VE LET A MURDERER OUT, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN BLAME THE JUDGE.

I MEAN, WE HAVE THESE LAWS AND THEY APPLY TO EVERYBODY.

IT'S JUST LIKE WE'RE ALWAYS SAYING, FREE SPEECH ISN'T JUST TO SPEECH WE APPROVE OF, IT'S FOR BAD SPEECH.

YOU CAN'T LIE ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO'S A DEFENDANT JUST BECAUSE HE'S A BAD PERSON.

THE LAW IS THE LAW, AND IF THE LAW SAYS IF THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS TO COME FORWARD AT SOME TIME FOR THIS GUY OR WE'RE GOING TO LET HIM OUT, I THINK THE JUDGE JUST DID THE UNPOPULAR THING, BUT WHAT HE HAD TO DO.

>> YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, BLACK, ALLEGED, YOU KNOW, PERPETRATORS OF CRIME, BLACK VICTIM, AND US THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT TWO BLACK FAMILIES THAT ARE, LIKE -- BECAUSE THERE WAS ANOTHER CASE AS WELL WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THINKING, LIKE, HOW IS THIS, YOU KNOW, JUSTICE?

WHAT IS GOING ON?

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW, AND THIS GUY SHOULD NOT BE OUT ON THE STREET, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE A WHOLE LOT OF TALK -- AND I'VE SAID THIS.

WE SPENT A WHOLE LOT OF TIME CRYING THE BLUES FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST BASICALLY CRIMINALS, SO, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT TO LOOK AT IT FROM BOTH SIDES AND I -- YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN TO SAY WE ALL HAD SOME POINT IN OUR LIFE WHERE WE WENT FROM BEING, YOU KNOW, REPORTERS AND YOU'RE GUNNING-HO AND YOU HAVE CAUSES AND YOU WANT TO JUST CHANGE THE WORLD, AND THAT DOESN'T CHANGE WHEN YOU BECOME AN EDITOR, BUT WHAT YOU LEARN REAL FAST IS, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I MANAGE PEOPLE.

I'M NOT THAT ANYMORE.

AND TO -- FOR THIS NEWSPAPER OR WHATEVER THIS BUSINESS IS, TO BE AS FUNCTIONAL AND DO EVERYTHING I EVER WANTED TO AS A REPORTER, IT'S GOT TO WORK STARTING AT MY DESK.

AND MANAGING PEOPLE.

AND MANAGING STUFF.

AND I DON'T -- I'M NOT SAYING KIM GARDNER IS INCOMPETENT.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT PEOPLE AREN'T OUT TO GET HER, BUT I AM SAYING THAT, BOY, YOU REALLY CANNOT DEFEND MISMANAGEMENT, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SEEMS TO BE GOING ON.

>> CHARLIE, CAN I RESPOND TO YOUR ORIGINAL THING?

AND THAT IS, FIRST OF ALL, IT WAS, BY THE WAY, REALLY GOOD JOURNALISM ON THE PART OF THE POST-DISPATCH.

BILL CURRIER DID A TERRIFIC JOB ON THIS.

IT'S INTERESTING, THOUGH, FOR THE POST-DISPATCH, WHICH IS A PARAGON OF MISMANAGEMENT IN ITS OWN WORLD, TO BE TALKING ABOUT ANYBODY ELSE.

>> WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> IT'S -- >> MISMANAGEMENT, WHEN DID THAT STORY COME OUT?

>> HONESTY -- >> WHY DON'T YOU BLAME WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ON THE POST-DISPATCH?

>> THE JUDGE IS RESPONSIBLE SPRT POST-DISPATCH -- >> WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS KIM GARDNER WAS ELECTED.

EVERYBODY SAYS WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT.

THE ANSWER IS -- >> SO WAS DONALD TRUMP, RAY.

>> YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH, WENDY.

>> SO WAS DONALD TRUMP.

>> RAY, WHAT YOU'RE FORGETTING -- HE WAS VOTED OUT OF OFFICE AND THAT'S WHAT NORMALLY YOU DO.

>> BUT FORGING A SIGNATURE IS AGAINST THE LAW, SO SOME ATTORNEY OR SOMEONE IN THE OFFICE SHOULD LOSE THE JOB AND MAYBE IF AN ATTORNEY FORGED A SIGNATURE, THAT PERSON SHOULD BE DISBARRED, CORRECT?

>> I THINK KIM GARDNER NEEDS TO OVERHAUL THE MANAGEMENT OF HER OFFICE, NO QUESTION BIT, BUT SHE IS THE ELECTED PROSECUTOR AND -- >> YOU'RE BLAMING THE FAMILY LEAVE ACT.

>> EVERYBODY WOULD LOOK AND SAY WE GOT TO GET RID OF HER -- >> BUT BEE KNOW WE KNOW A CRIME OCCURRED.

SOMEONE FORGED A SIGNATURE.

>> THAT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED, BUT THAT'S FINE.

>> IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE INVESTIGATED GLOOSK, IT SHOULD.

THAT'S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER YOU ARBITRARILY SAY WE DOT TO GET RID OF HER.

YOU DON'T DO THAT IN A DEMOCRACY.

SHE'S ELECTED.

OF COURSE YOU -- >> I AGREE WITH THAT -- >> THENTON ELECT HER.

IT'S AS SEMP SIMPLE AS THAT.

>> OR HAVE A RECALL PETITION.

>> KIM GARDNER SUPPORTERS, AS WE CAN HEAR, ARE VEHEMENTLY ON HER SIDE AND IF THERE'S ANY EFFORT -- IF WE HAVE ERIC SCHMITT INVESTIGATING THESE FORGERIES AND HE COPS AGAINST KIM GARDNER, OH MY GOSH -- >> I DON'T THINK ERIC IS A GOOD ATTORNEY GENERAL.

I NEVER SAID HE SHOULD RESIGN.

SHE'S ELECTED.

>> SO WAS ERIC GREITENS, HE'S ELECTED, BUT HE TOOK A PHOTO OF THE WOMAN AND THE PHOTO WENT INTO THE iCLOUD, SO YOU WANTED HIM OUT OF HERE.

>> SO THEY RAN HIM OUT OF JEFF CITY.

>> NEXT TOPIC, SPEAKING OF JEFFERSON CITY, GOVERNOR MIKE PARSON IS OFFERING A $10,000 LOTTERY, 900 PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY RECEIVED A VACCINATION, THOSE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN VACCINATED, AND CHILDREN I GUESS 12 TO 17 YEARS OLD WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR $10,000 IN TERT CASH, MINUS TAXES, OR EDUCATIONAL STIPEND.

YOU POINTED OUT EARLIER THAT MISSOURI REALLY IS A HOT SPOT.

JUST 40% OF THE POPULATION IN OUR STATE HAS BEEN VACCINATED.

THAT'S WAY LOW, AND YET WE'RE NUMBER 3 IN COVID-19 PER CAPITA.

NOT GOOD.

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS LOTTERY, ALVIN?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS LIKE ONE OF THOSE BREAKING NEWS STORIES THAT IF YOU UPDATE, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHATEVER NEWS SEARCH ITEM AND PUT MISSOURI COVID, THERE'S A DIFFERENT STORY EVERY 15 MINUTES.

THERE'S A MAP OUT THERE WHERE THEY'RE SAYING FLORIDA AND TEXAS, OKAY, AND MISSOURI ARE THE THREE HOT SPOTS.

IF YOU LOOK AT FLORIDA AND TEXAS, THERE'S LITTLE RED BLOTCHES HERE AND THERE.

MISSOURI LOOKS LIKE MY SHIRT, OKAY?

THIS $10,000, BOY, THAT HORSE IS SO FAR OUT OF THE BARN, IT RAN TO THE MOON.

THIS -- HE JUST LOOKS RIDICULOUS, AND THIS IS RIDICULOUS AND IT'S WAY LESS MONEY THAN OTHER STATES ARE SPENDING ON INCENTIVES, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN LAUGHING AT THIS SINCE IT BEGAN, REPUBLICANS MOSTLY, DOWN IN JEFFERSON CITY AND THROUGHOUT THE STATE, AND NOW WHAT EVERYBODY SAID WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IS HAPPENING.

SO THIS IS A JOKE AND AS I -- YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, THIS WOULD BE FUNNY EXCEPT IT'S JUST SO TRAGIC.

>> OKAY, SO IF TISHAURA JONES GIVES OUT $500, THAT'S GREAT.

IF THE GOVERNOR GIVES OUT $10,000, IT'S A JOKE.

>> NO, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THERE'S A CONCISE EFFORT TO ACTUALLY GET PEOPLE VACCINATED AND WEAR A MASK AND DO A RIGHT THING, AND THE STATE OF MISSOURI LAUGHED THE AN ALL THAT, SCOFFED AT ALL THAT, PASSED LA US THAT SAID YOU CAN'T DO THIS, TRIED TO STRIP THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE OF ALL HIS POWER.

SO DON'T COME AT ME WITH, LIKE, SO MISSOURIANS MIGHT WIN $10,000.

THAT REALLY DOES SOUND LIKE DIALING FOR DOLLARS OR JUST SOME NONSENSE.

>> I DON'T HAVE AS BIG A PROBLEM -- I MEAN, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH MR. REED EXACTLY, BUT IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE -- I THINK THEY PROBABLY GET MORE PEOPLE IF THEY GAVE AWAY LOTS AT THE STATE FAIR, BUT THEY'VE GOT TO -- THE PROBLEM IS, IT'S LIKE ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY JUST DISCOVERED VACCINES AND THE NEED FOR THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT?

WHICH STILL, BY THE WAY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SENIOR SERVICES DOESN'T HAVE A QUALIFIED INDIVIDUAL THREE MONTHS AFTER THE RANDALL WILLIAMS SHOW LEFT TOWN, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM IS THERE'S NO COMMITMENT TO PUBLIC HEALTH IN THE STATE AND THE FACT IS, NOT SO MUCH WHAT HE'S GIVEN OUT NOW, BUT THE FACT THAT EVEN TO THIS POINT, THERE'S BEEN VERY LITTLE EFFORT TO PUSH ANY, YOU KNOW, VACCINE JUST BECAUSE IT WAS POLITICALLY INCONVENIENT.

>> I THINK THAT'S TRUE, BUT FOR ONE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE GIFT CARDS IN THE COUNTY, DID WE?

>> I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE $10,000.

>> CHARLIE, THAT WAS FIVE -- THE GIFT CARD PROGRAM THAT MAYOR JONES IS BEHIND, THAT'S $5 MILLION.

I MEAN, SHE'S TALKING ABOUT $5 MILLION.

I THINK ALVIN'S POINT IS $10,000 COMPARED TO THE STATE -- WHAT WAS IT, ALVIN?

THE STATE ACTIVE WISCONSIN, THEY'RE GIVING AWAY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

>> SO WE DO LOOK FUNNY IN THAT.

>> THAT DOES LOOK LIKE DIALING FOR DOLLARS OR THE MATINEE MOVIE OR WHATEVER.

IT'S JUST -- IT DOES LOOK A LITTLE TONE DEAF.

>> WELL, WENDY WIESE, LET ME ASK YOU, ON THE SUBJECT OF COVID-19, THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT MASK MANDATES WILL RETURN.

SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY ARE ALREADY REQUIRING PEOPLE TO WEAR MASKS WHENEVER INSIDE A PUBLIC ESTABLISHMENT, AND SOMETIMES EVEN OUTDOORS, AND ACCORDING TO OFFICIALS IN THE COUNTY AND THE CITY, THEY'RE DISCUSSING IT.

HAS THAT COW LEFT THE BARN?

>> I'M SURE IN THE MINDS OF MANY COWBOYS, IT HAS.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THAT DISCUSSION IS OVER.

I DO WHAT I'M TOLD TO DO.

WHEN THE HEALTH OFFICIALS SAY MASK UP, SEE, THERE'S MY GOOD FRIEND BILL McCLELLAN, HE'S A GOOD CITIZEN.

EVERYBODY ON THIS PANEL IS DOUBLE-VACCINATED AND WE'RE READY TO GO, BUT IF THE HEALTH OFFICIALS SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, JUST IN THE INTERESTS OF THE GREATER GOOD, WEAR A MASK, I'M GOING TO WEAR A MASK.

>> WELL, THAT WILL BE AWFULLY HARD TO DO, WENDY.

I MEAN, I'M ONE OF THESE -- THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO -- I'VE MENTALLY PUT THIS BEHIND ME AND I -- THE IDEA OF WEARING A MASK, I SURE HOPE IT DOESN'T GO THERE.

>> AND I THINK THAT THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND EVEN MAYOR JONES, I BELIEVE THAT THEY WON'T -- I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO GO THERE, OKAY?

AND I THINK IN PART BECAUSE WHATEVER BILL SAID, THAT IT'S JUST -- BOY, YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE NOT WANTING TO DO IT.

THAT'S ONE THING, BUT THE OTHER IS, ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE TRIED -- I HAVE LITERALLY TRIED REALLY HARD SINCE THIS ALL BEGAN AND WHEN I WAS WORKING, YOU KNOW, IN THE HEALTH FOOD STORE AND DEALING WITH PEOPLE THAT DID NOT WANT TO WEAR A MASK AND IT WAS AT THE HEIGHT OF ALL THIS AND THERE WAS NO VACCINATION, AND WHILE I'M VACCINATED NOW AND I KNOW THERE'S A ONE PERCENT CHANCE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT I COULD, YOU KNOW, GET IT EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN VACCINATED AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S NEW STRAINS EVERY DAY, I GUESS WE'RE MOVING ON TO ET EPSILON NOW, BUT I TELL YOU WHAT, I THINK FOR THOSE WHO REFUSE TO WEAR A MASK AND ARE NOT VACCINATED AND HAVE BEEN THE LOUDEST TALKERS AND THE BRASHEST WALKERS, I'M SORRY, I RAN OUT OF PATIENCE WITH YOU.

IT DOESN'T SEEM VERY CHRISTIANLY, BUT I JUST DON'T CARE.

>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE AGREE WITH YOU, ALVIN.

>> THIS IS ABOUT FLELT.

IT'S NOT ABOUT -- ABOUT PUBLIC HEALTH.

IT'S NOT ABOUT OUR FEELINGS.

OUR FAMILY LIKE YOURS IS VACCINATED AND WE THINK ABOUT WHETHER WE MIGHT GET IT, AND ALTHOUGH THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF GETTING IT, AND IT SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT THOSE OF US WHO ARE VACCINATED HAVE A VERY SMALL CHANCE OF ENDING UP IN THE HOSPITAL AFTER GETTING IT, WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT THING, BUT IT'S NOT WHO'S RIGHT, WHO'S WRONG.

IT'S NOT ABOUT FREEDOM.

IT'S ABOUT THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SO THE QUESTION IS IF THE HEALTH OFFICIALS SAY WE WANT TO PUT OUR -- YOU KNOW, THIS POLITICAL PHONY MESSAGE OUT THERE THAT THIS IS ABOUT FREEDOM AND IT'S ABOUT OUR RIGHTS, IT'S ABOUT THE HEALTH.

EITHER WE WANT TO HAVE A PANDEMIC RAGING FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS, OR WE DON'T.

IT'S ABOUT HEALTH.

>> BUT RAY, RAY, IF EVERYBODY IN AMERICA WAS VACCINATED, WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.

>> CORRECT.

>> SO THE REASON WE'RE HAVING THERE DISCUSSION IS BECAUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE UNVACCINATED.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> ALL RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND WE SHOULD TRY TO GET THEM VACCINATED, BUT IF WE DON'T AND THE HEALTH OFFICIALS SAY THIS IS THE WAY YOU KEEP IT FROM SPREADING, YOU LISTEN TO THE HEALTH OFFICIALS.

IT ISN'T ABOUT OUR FEELINGS OR WHAT WE THI WE SHOULD DO, LISTENING TO COMMON SENSE -- >> BUT I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT ALVIN IS SAYING BECAUSE WE'RE PENALIZING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE FOLLOW TG THE RULES.

>> YOU ARE.

>> AND WE ARE AGAIN -- WE ARE MAKING THINGS NICE FOR THOSE WHO ARE THE MOST VOCAL ABOUT ANTI-VAXXERS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> AND IT ISN'T -- >> VERY WELL.

ALVIN, I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING, YOU SAID PEOPLE GOING INTO THE HEALTH FOOD STORE WITHOUT MASKS, I THOUGHT OF ALL PLACES, THAT WOULD BE THE PLACE THEY WEAR THEM.

>> CHARLIE, I COULD WRITE A BOOK ON THAT.

I'M SERIOUS.

>> I BET YOU WILL.

>> I'M SERIOUS.

>> OKAY.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT MICHAEL NEIDORFF.

HE GAVE RATHER EXTENSIVE INTERVIEWS TO THE ST. LOUIS BUSINESS JOURNAL WHERE HE TOUCHED ON MANY DIFFERENT TOPICS.

HE -- WELL, HE'S STILL CONCERNED ABOUT CRIME, HAS TROUBLE LURING TOP TALENT TO ST. LOUIS.

HE WAS DISAPPOINTED THAT THE MAYOR WENT TO DENVER TO LOOK AT HOW TO SEND SOCIAL WORKERS TO CRIME.

HE SAID THERE'S NO DOUBT WE NEED MORE POLICE IN THE CITY.

HE ALSO WANTS TURNSTILES FOR METROLINK.

HE HAD QUITE A FEW DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND HE SAID HE WASN'T ASKING TO T INVEST MORE MONEY UNTIL WE FIX SOME OF THE ISSUES IN OUR REGION.

I THINK IF HE'S ASKS TO TURNSTILES, A GUY WHO'S HEAD OF A $100 BILLION CORPORATION IN ST. LOUIS, IS GOING TO GET THEM.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I AGREE AND LET ME SAY ONE THING.

DR. HENRY GIVENS PASSED AWAY THIS WEEK.

LONG TIME PRESIDENT OF HARRIS-STOWE UNIVERSITY, LINCOLN UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT, HE WILL BE MISSED.

ALL RIGHT, MICHAEL NEIDORFF.

WRONG -- I MEAN RIGHT ON THE TURNSTILES, WRONG ON THE DENVER TRIP.

I AGREE WITH HIM ON SOME THINGS, I DISAGREES WITH HIM ON OTHERS, BUT HE'S PUTTING IT OUT THERE AND HE'S MAKING THE CORPORATE COMMUNITY NOT ONLY DECIDE WHAT TO THINK ABOUT HIM AND HIS COMPANY, BUT WHERE ARE WE AT ON TURNSTILES AND WHERE ARE WE AT ON CRIME AND WHERE ARE WE AT ON MEDICAID, WHICH I -- YOU KNOW, HE STUMPED FOR MEDICAID AND HE GOT HIS WISH TODAY, ALTHOUGH THAT WAS A JUDICIAL THING.

SO, YOU KNOW, HEY, I CANNOT BE MAD AT MICHAEL NEIDORFF.

I JUST CANNOT.

>> 30 SECONDS TO GO.

>> I WANT TO HEAR ONE THING.

WHEN THE MICHAEL NEIDORFF GOING TO COMMIT TO KEEPING CENTENE IN ST. LOUIS.

HE'S A GREAT PHILANTHROPIST, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH ALVIN, HE HAS A RIGHT TO HIS OPINION.

WHETHER IS HE GOING TO COMMIT TO KEEPING CENTENE IN ST. LOUIS?

AT THAT TIME, I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT HE'S GOT TO SAY, AND UNTIL THEN, REALLY NOT.

>> I WISH HE HADN'T KICKED US WHILE WE WERE DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC AND I HOPE IN THE FUTURE HE'LL LISTEN TO HIS P.R.

PEOPLE.

EVEN THOUGH EVERYTHING HE SAID WAS LEGITIMATE, I THINK IT WAS HARSHLY DELIVERED.

>> A MAN SAID IF WE'RE GOING TO KICK A MAN, WHY NOT WHEN HE'S DOWN, RIGHT, BILL?

>> THAT'S THE LAST WORD.

BILL, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TOMORROW.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> HAPPY BIRTHDAY.

>> NANNY -- MANY HAPPY RETURNS AND IN A MOMENT, TED SIMMONS.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR NEXT UP.

THIS IS WHERE WE INTERVIEW THE COMMUNITY LEADERS AND WE'RE TALKING TO THE TOAST OF ST. LOUIS FOR THE SUMMER OF 2021 BECAUSE TED SIMMONS SPENT 21 YEARS IN THE MAJORS, MANY OF THEM FOR THE ST. LOUIS CARDINALS, AND HE'S HEADING INTO THE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME ON SEPTEMBER THE 8th AFTER HITTING 248 HOME RUNS, 285 -- WAS IT -- 285 WAS THE BATTING AVERAGE, EIGHT-TIME ALL-STAR, AND NICKNAMED SIMBA BECAUSE OF THE HAIR.

WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO THAT, BUT TED, CONGRATULATIONS.

THANKS FOR JOINING US ON NEXT UP.

>> WELL, CHARLIE, ALVIN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

THIS IS PRETTY SPECIAL.

I'VE WATCHED, OF COURSE, OVER THE YEARS.

IT'S A PRETTY BIG SHOW HERE IN TOWN AND I FINALLY MADE IT.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> AND YEAH, I'M SURE THAT JULY 31st WILL PALE IN COMPARISON TO YOUR APPEARANCE ON THIS PROGRAM.

ON JULY 31st, BY THE WAY, EVERYBODY, AT BUSCH STADIUM, NOT ONLY WILL A STATUE SCULPTED BY HARRY WEBER BE UNVEIL, BUT THERE WILL BE A TED SIMMONS BOBBLEHEAD AND YOUR NUMBER, 23, WILL BE RETIRED.

>> YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

>> SO THAT'S REALLY EXCITING AND EVERYONE CAN GET TICKETS AT CARDINALS.COM.

YOU KNOW, YOU JUST MUST BE PINCHING YOURSELF.

>> WELL, IT'S -- YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE A PRACTICAL JOKE ALMOST.

YOU THINK -- YOU GO TO BED AT NIGHT AND YOU LAY DOWN AND SAY TOMORROW MORNING SOMEBODY'S CALLING ME, THEY'RE GOING TO TELL ME THIS ISN'T REALLY HAPPENING TO YOU.

SO AS WE NEAR THIS THING, I KEEP GETTING CLOSER AND CLOSER TO THE REALITY THAT IT IS IN FACT GOING TO HAPPEN AND THE THING THAT THE CARDINALS HAVE PUT TOGETHER HERE ON THE 31st IS JUST GOING TO BE GREAT.

I HOPE EVERYBODY COMES AND CERTAINLY GOING TO BE A VERY SPECIAL DAY FOR ME AND MY FAMILY.

BUT IT'S A CELEBRATION OF THIS WHOLE TOWN.

THE HALL OF FAME THING IS A TRIBUTE TO EVERYBODY AND THAT'S HOW I LOOK AT IT.

SO I CAN'T WAIT FOR NEXT WEEKEND FOR SURE.

>> WELL, TED, I MEAN, THROUGHOUT MY CAREER, I'VE DONE JUST TREMENDOUS, TREMENDOUS THINGS AND RIGHT NOW I'M KIND OF LIKE TONGUE-TIED BECAUSE I'M 60 YEARS OLD AND, YOU KNOW -- >> JUST A KID.

>> I'M JUST A KID, BUT HEY, MAN, THE CARDINALS HAVE THREE MILLION NOW AND IT'S WONDERFUL AND THE STADIUM IS EITHER PACKED OR ALMOST THERE EVERY NIGHT, BUT MAN I CAME TO SEE YOU SO MANY GAMES WHEN THERE'S ME AND ABOUT 20,000 OTHER PEOPLE IN THAT GIGANTIC STADIUM AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ONE OF MY, LIKE, KIND OF LIKE CHILDHOOD HEROES BECAUSE, MAN, YOU CAN HIT, YOU CAN CATCH, YOU CAN PLAY.

I JUST WAS LIKE, OH WOW, TED SIMMONS IS GOING TO BE ON THE SHOW.

SO I'M GOING TO QUIT NOW, BUT THIS IS TRULY AN HONOR FOR ME.

>> HEY, THAT'S -- MAN -- >> I WILL SAY THAT -- >> HEY -- >> YOU KIND OF SUMMED IT UP, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO WEAR THE CARDINAL CAP WHEN YOU GO INTO THE HALL OF FAME.

WHEN YOU THINK BACK TO WHEN YOU FIRST CAME UP, AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT MY NEXT GO-AROUND, BUT WHAT A JOURNEY THAT STARTED IN ST. LOUIS, AND JUST TELL ME WHAT IT WAS LIKE PLAYING HERE.

>> WELL, I CAME FROM THE DETROIT AREA AND THEY KIND OF LIVE AND DIE WITH THE PISTONS AND THE LIONS AND THE TIGERS FOR THE LONGEST TIME, ALTHOUGH THE TIGERS AND RED WINGS HAD SUCCESS AND THE OTHERS WERE JUST ROUGH.

I CAME TO ST. LOUIS FOR THE FIRST TIME, I HAD NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN THIS TOWN CENTERED AROUND THEN, OF COURSE, THE BASEBALL AND FOOTBALL CARDINALS AND THEN THE START-UP OF THE BLUES, AND I GO WAY BACK THERE TOO.

AND IT WAS ALL BRAND NEW TO ME.

I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THIS TOWN WAS LIKE.

I DIDN'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE NATURE OF THE CARDINALS.

I MEAN, I -- HONEST TO GOODNESS, I NEVER SAW A NATIONAL LEAGUE GAME UNTIL I PLAYED IN ONE, SO WHEN I HEARD THE NAME STAN MUSIAL, I SAID I WONDER HOW HE CONNECTED MAYBE TO TED WILLIAMS OR SOMETHING.

WHO WAS HE IN RELATION TO MICKEY MANTLE?

I JUST DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS PLACE, SO WHEN I CAME HERE, I WAS A COMPLETE STRANGER AND THEN, OF COURSE, OVER THE YEARS BECAME FULLY COMMITTED TO THIS CITY IN MANY WAYS.

MY TWO SONS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY WERE BORN AND RAISED HERE AND WENT TO SCHOOL HERE.

I'M TELLING YOU, I'VE COME FULL CIRCLE AND THIS BUSINESS THAT'S HAPPENING HERE WITH THE CARDINALS AND THE COOPERSTOWN HALL OF FAME IS LIKE THE CULMINATION OF A LIFETIME AND AN ASSOCIATION WITH A CITY THAT'S JUST EMBRACED ME AND MY FAMILY ALL ALONG.

>> CAN YOU TELL OUR VIEWERS ABOUT A LESSON YOU LEARNED EARLY ON FROM ONE GEORGE KISSEL?

>> WELL, THE STORY IS LONG, BUT ALL I CAN SAY IS WHEN I FIRST SIGNED AS A 17-YEAR-OLD, I SAT DOWN AND MET ALL THE OTHER DRAFTED PLAYERS AND GEORGE KISSEL WAS THE MOST PROFOUND FUNDAMENTALIST MAYBE THAT EVER CAME AROUND THIS GAME, OR CERTAINLY ONE OF THEM.

AND HE KNEW THAT I THOUGHT BECAUSE I WAS THE NUMBER ONE DRAFT PICK AND GOT ALL THE BIG MONEY, SO TO SPEAK, I THOUGHT I WAS PROBABLY PRETTY SPECIAL, AND I DID THINK I WAS PRETTY SPECIAL.

BUT HE TOOK ME LITERALLY IN FRONT OF THAT WHOLE GROUP AND POSED SOME VERY COMPLICATED CUTOFFS AND RELAYS THAT ANYBODY AT 17 YEARS OLD COULD SORT THROUGH OR COME UP WITH THE RIGHT ANSWER.

SO HE SAID AND SAID, OKAY, ANYBODY WANT TO RAISE THEIR HAND AND EXPLAIN WHERE EVERYBODY GOES ON THIS PLAY?

NOBODY D SO FINALLY HE TURN TO ME AND SAID, MR. SIMMONS, YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE I WOULD GO, SO WHY DON'T YOU STAND UP AND TELL EVERYBODY.

HE DID THAT TO ME TWO DAYS IN A ROW AND THEN THE THIRD DAY, HE CALLED ME IN HIS OFFICE TO EXPLAIN, YOU PROBABLY THINK YOU'RE THE BEST PLAYER AROUND HERE AND BECAUSE YOU GOT ALL THE MONEY, DRAFTED NUMBER ONE, YOU MIGHT BE ENTITLED TO DO THAT, BUT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR YOU DON'T KNOW ANY MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE IN HERE RIGHT NOW.

THE BEST THING FOR YOU TO DO IS PUT YOUR LEARNING CAP ON AND TAKE THIS GAME SERIOUS.

MY WHOLE LIFE CHANGED THAT WAY.

MY WHOLE LIFE CHANGED.

>> SO ALL THIS MONEY YOU MADE, DARE I ASK, WHAT WAS THAT, $500?

>> I'M CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO SAY THAT THE FIRST MAJOR LEAGUE CONTRACT I SIGNED WITH THE CARDINALS TO PLAY THE WHOLE YEAR -- OKAY?

-- AT THAT TIME WAS $7500 FOR THE WHOLE SEASON.

>> WHOLE SEASON.

>> I MEAN, IT'S COME ALL ALONG THE WAY, BUT, YOU KNOW, I PLAYED IN AN ERA WHERE I WORKED IN THE -- YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A -- I USED TO WORK IN THE BANK IN THE WINTER BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MARK TWAIN BANK BACK THERE T ADAM AARONSON, JOHN DUBENSKE HERE IN TOWN EMPLOYED ME AND HELPED SUSTAIN ME DURING THE WINTER MONTHS BECAUSE ALL THAT MONEY I SIGNED AS THAT NUMBER ONE PROSPECT, YOU KNOW, AFTER TAXES AND BUYING VARIOUS THINGS FOR MY FAMILY, THAT GOES QUICK.

AND SO I NEEDED THAT JOB IN THE WINTER AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S DIFFERENT TODAY.

>> OKAY.

NOW, I LOOKED IT UP.

I DIDN'T HAVE IT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

YOU WERE HERE A COUPLE OF GAMES IN 1968 OR AT LEAST -- I GUESS AS YOU PLAYED ON AN ACTIVE ROSTER, SO AT THAT TIME, WHAT, 19 OR JUST 18 THEN?

BOB GIBSON AND ALL THESE ALL-STARS AND THE BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL, DID THEY TALK TO YOU?

>> OH YEAH.

OH, THEY GRABBED ME AND EMBRACED ME, AND THEY WERE GREAT TEAMS THAT PEOPLE ALL REMEMBER, BUT I MEAN GIBSON AND CURT FLOOD WAS STILL IN THE CLUBHOUSE, TAPADA WAS HERE, THE SECOND BASEMAN, JAVIER, ROGER MARIS WAS HERE AND I TOLD YOU I GREW UP IN DETROIT AND JUST LEARNED TO HATE THE YANKEES BECAUSE THEY'D COME IN AND BEAT THE TAIL OFF THE TIGERS, BUT IN '61, MARIS HAD DONE GREAT THINGS AND NOW -- 'I THINK 58, THAT YEAR.

I WALKED IN THAT CLUBHOUSE AND ROGER MARIS IS IN THAT CLUBHOUSE RIGHT OVER THERE, SO IT WAS JUST UNBELIEVABLE FOR A 19-YEAR-OLD TO COME OUT FOR THAT LOOK-SEE IN SEPTEMBER AND LOOK AND SEE THOSE PEOPLE IN THAT CLUBHOUSE AND TRY TO ASSIMILATE.

I MEAN, I WAS 19 YEARS OLD AND THESE PEOPLE WERE ADULT MEN.

IT WAS DIFFICULT, BUT THEY GRABBED ME BY THE ARM AND SAID, COME ON, LET'S GO.

>> TED, HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU WERE CATCHING GIBSON AND CARLTON?

>> WELL, I WAS -- THE FIRST TIME, I WAS 20 YEARS OLD.

>> 20.

>> YEAH, AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST HANGING ON.

WHEN I SAY HANGING ON, I PUT DOWN THE FINGERS AND HOPE IT WAS THE RIGHT ONE AND THEY'D BE OKAY WITH IT.

AND THEN I'D TRY TO CATCH IT WHEN THEY THREW IT.

I CAME UP, YOU KNOW, SO YOUNG AND I CAME UP BECAUSE MY -- JOE TORRE HAD COME IN THE WINTER AND HE WAS GOING TO PLAY CATCHER AND SHANNON WAS THE THIRD BASEMAN.

MIKE GOT SICK WITH KIDNEY DISEASE THAT ENDED HIS CAREER.

WHEN HE -- IN SPRING TRAINING, WHEN HE WAS SHET SET DOWN, TORRE WENT TO THIRD BASE AND THEY CALLED ME UP FROM TRIPLE-A AS A 20-YEAR-OLD, CATCHING THE PEOPLE YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT.

I WAS NO MORE READY ON DO THAT THAN THE MAN IN THE MOON.

AT 20 YEARS OLD, 19, 20 YEARS OLD, I STILL THOUGHT ABOUT MY HIGH SCHOOL PROM.

I WAS ONLY TWO YEARS FROM WHEN I WAS THERE.

SO NOW I'M GOING TO BE CATCHING BOB GIBSON?

I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO WITH ALL THIS.

.

I GOT TO BE ABOUT 25 I WAS JUST, AS I SAY, HANGING ON, BUT THAT CYCLE TURNED AND NOW I LEARN WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND SO TO WHAT EXTENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CRITICAL OF MY, YOU KNOW, ABILITIES FROM THE AGE OF 20 TO 23, 24, 25, I MEAN, AS I SAY, I WAS AWFULLY YOUNG TO BE DOING A GROWN-UP JOB LIKE THAT.

>> WELL, YOU COULD HIT, OKAY?

>> YEAH.

>> AND WHEN YOU WERE -- LIKE I SAID, YOU'RE LEARNING TO CATCH AND THE FUNDAMENTALS AND ALL THAT.

AT WHAT POINT DID YOU SAY I CAN HANDLE THESE GUYS ON THE MOUND WHEN I'M IN THE BATTER'S BOX.

DID YOU KNOW THAT BY 21, 22?

>> THAT WAS EARLIER BECAUSE I HIT .300 BY THE TIME I WAS 21 AND KISSEL HADN'T DRUMMED ALL THE ARROGANCE OUT OF ME, BUT BY 21, YOU'RE PLAYING EVERY DAY AND HITTING ALL THE OTHER PITCHERS ON THE OTHER TEAMS.

GAYLORD FERRY WAS STILL PITCHING, JENKINS, J.R. RICHARDS, AND THESE ARE REAL TOUGH BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE PITCHING THESE GUYS, IF YOU'RE NOT HAVING SUCCESS, YOU'RE GOING TO FEEL THAT AND YOU'RE GOING TO CARRY THAT EVERYWHERE, BUT IF YOU ARE HAVING SUCCESS, IT'S THE MOST REINFORCING THING IN THE ENTIRE WORLD AND YOU START HOMERING OFF STEVA OR HITTING THE BALL OFF THE FENCE WITH NOLAN RYAN, HOMERING OFF HIM, YOU START FEELING REALLY GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF AGAIN AND THAT WAS ALWAYS WITH ME.

IT WAS MY TICKET.

I COULD ALWAYS HIT.

BY THE TIME I WAS 21, 22, 23 YEARS OLD, I SAID, HEY, I DON'T CARE WHO'S PITCHING, I DON'T CARE IF THE GUY IS A MARTIAN, I'LL GET HIM.

>> WHO HAD YOUR NUMBER?

WHO COULDN'T YOU FIGURE OUT?

>> OH, YEAH, THE SOFT SPOT.

>> KENNY HOLTZMAN?

>> HE WAS ROUGH.

HAD A GOOD BREAKING BALL BEHIND THE COUNT.

THREE BALLS, ONE STRIKE, RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE.

AND YOU'RE WAITING FOR BALL FOUR.

THE GUY -- HOLTZMAN WAS ROUGH.

HE'S A ST. LOUIS GUY HERE.

>> I KNOW.

>> MAURER, THOSE KIND OF GUYS THAT ALMOST SLOPPED THE BALL UP THERE AT YOU.

YOU KNOW IT'S SLOW AND I'LL WAIT ON THIS GUY AND YOU WAIT AND WAIT AND WAIT.

YOU CHARGE OUT THERE AND JAM YOURSELF AND PLOP UP A LOW GROUND BALL TO SHORTSTOP.

THOSE SLOW BALLS WERE ROUGH ONES.

>> TED, WHO WAS THE PITCHER, WAS IT TUDOR?

WHO WAS ON THE MOUND WHEN YOU HIT A HOME RUN AND WLONE YOU CROSSED THE PLATE, THE UMPIRE TOSSED YOU OUT OF THE GAME?

>> THAT WAS TUDOR, AGAINST THE CUBS HERE IN ST. LOUIS AND PAUL RUNGE WAS THE HOME PLACE UMPIRE AND I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU FAST AS I CAN.

WE'RE DOWN 2-1, BOTTOM OF THE NIN NINTH.

I'M UP, BUT THE ENTIRE GAME, THE HOME PLATE UMPIRE AND MYSELF HAVE BEEN AT EACH OTHER'S NECK.

THAT PITCH IS A STRIKE, BALL!

THAT'S NOT OUTSIDE!

JESUS, YOU CAN'T GIVE THAT FITCH, MAN, THAT'S A STRIKE.

SO WE ARE BANTERING ALL INNING.

I MEAN ALL GAME.

EVERY INNING.

SO FINALLY I GET UP THERE, OKAY?

AND TUDOR IS PITCHING, TRYING TO CLOSE OUT THE GAME, THREE OUTS AWAY FROM THE GAME BOTTOM OF THE NINTH, SO THE FIRST BALL INSIDE, I BACKED UP, ALMOST HIT ME IN THE CHEST.

HE SAID STRIKE.

I TURNED AND LOOKED AND HAD, HEY, MAN, THAT BALL ALMOST HIT ME.

TUDOR WASN'T STUPID.

NEXT PITCH, HE THROWS THE SAME BALL CLOSER.

FAST BALL RIGHT IN HERE AND I'M TELLING YOU, I DON'T KNOW HOW IT DIDN'T HIT ME.

AND RUNGE SAID STRIKE.

SO I TURNED AND HE'S REACHING FOR HIS MASK LIKE THIS, AND THAT IS A SIGNAL.

WHEN AN UMPIRE GOES LIKE THIS REAPING TO PULL HIS MASK OFF, HE'S ABOUT TO SAY YOU ARE OUT OF HERE.

I RECOGNIZED IT, JUMPED RIGHT BACK INTO THE BOX IMMEDIATELY AND WENT INTO THE BATTING STANCE.

TUDOR THEN THROWS ME A HANGING BALL AND AND I HIT IT HOME.

I ROUND THE BASES AND RUNGE IS STANDING ON HOME PLATE.

AND I THOUGHT, I'VE GOT TO STEP ON HOME PLACE AND HE'S STANDING ON IT.

AT SECOND BASE, I RECOGNIZE IT.

LOOK AT THIS, WHAT.

I GET AROUND THIRD BASE, I'M COMING IN AND HE HASN'T MOVED FROM HOME PLATE.

I THOUGHT, I'M COMING.

YEAH, OKAY, I'LL GET THIS.

I KNEW HE HAD TO STEP OFF EVENTUALLY, AND ABOUT SEVEN OR EIGHT FEET BEFORE I GOT THERE TO TOUCH HOME PLATE, HE BACKS UP AND WHEN HE DID, I DIDN'T OPEN MY MOUTH TO SAY A WORD, I JUST PUT MY HAND AND HIT THAT JUST LIKE THAT.

TOOK MY HEAD OFF AND TIP IT TO HIM AND HE SAID YOU ARE OUT OF HERE, MAN.

IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED JUST LIKE THAT, SO I DID.

ONE OF THE GREAT MOMENTS OF MY LIFE.

>> HOW ABOUT CATCHING A BOB GIBSON NO HITTER AGAINST -- I THINK THE TEAM WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST BATTING TEAMS OF THE DAY, THE PITTSBURGH PIRATES.

>> LUMBER COMPANY, PITTSBURGH, YEAH.

INCREDIBLE.

PEOPLE TALK ABOUT NO HITTERS AND THEY ALWAYS SAY AROUND THAT FOURTH OR FIFTH INNING T EVERYBODY STARTS FENCING STUFF.

HE'S GOT GOOD STUFF AND NOBODY'S GOT A HIT YET.

AND THE OLD STANDBY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING, AND NOBODY DOES.

BUT AS A CATCHER OF A GAME LIKE THAT, I MEAN, IN THAT FIFTH INNING, YOU'RE POSITIVE.

TONIGHT TRK , IT MIGHT HAPPEN BECAUSE THIS GUY'S STUFF IS SO GOOD TONIGHT, THEY CAN'T HIT IT.

AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THE HEAVIES IN THAT LUMBER COMPANY, YOU NAME THEM, THEY'RE IN THE LINEUP TONIGHT.

HE IS JUST MOWING THEM DOWN AND I'M SAYING WOW, THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE.

SO AS THINGS GO AND EVERYBODY IS SILENT ABOUT IT, AND OF COURSE GIBSON WOULDN'T HAVE SAID A WORD AND IF YOU APPROACHED HIM, HE MIGHT HAVE, YOU KNOW, PUT HIS ARM ON HIS FOREHEAD OR SOMETHING.

YOU CATCH THE GAME, IT GETS THROUGH AND BY IT TIME YOU'RE ONE OR TWO OUTS IN THE NINTH, NOW EVERYBODY IS JUST CROSSING THEIR FINGERS TRYING TO KEEP COOL, NOT SAY A THING, AND HE ENDS UP STRIKING OUT STARGEL AND IT'S THE FINAL OUT.

YOU JUST SAY A LUCKY OPPORTUNITY IN YOUR LIFETIME AS WELL TO SAY, I MEAN, THE ONLY PITCHED ONE AND YOU SAY, I GOT TO BE THERE.

AND AT THAT TIME, I WASN'T HANGING ON.

I KNEW WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

I KNEW WHAT TO DO, AND I FELT A PART OF THAT.

IT WAS REALLY SPECIAL.

>> I'VE HEARD THIS DESCRIBED THAT THE REASON NONE OF US HAVE EVER SEEN THAT LAST OUT IS BECAUSE, WELL, PITTSBURGH OBVIOUSLY EAST COAST, AND THE ONLY CREW THERE, ACTUALLY THEY DID THE NEWS ALSO.

SO LIKE AT 9:00 CENTRAL TIME, THEY LEFT THE STADIUM AND THERE'S NO FILM, RECORDING OF THE LAST OUT OF BOB GIBSON'S NO HITTER.

SO IT'S CRAZY, BUT -- >> WELL, YOU KNOW, THINGS HAPPEN THAT WAY.

I REMEMBER CLEAR AS A BELL.

INCREDIBLE NIGHT WHEN A PITCHER GETS LIKE THAT AND SUSTAINS THAT FOR NINE INNINGS, IT'S INCREDIBLE TO WATCH AND TO CATCH.

IT'S BEYOND DESCRIPTION.

>> HE DID AUTOGRAPH A BALL FOR YOU?

YOU STILL HAVE IT?

>> NO, I STAYED OUT OF GIBSON'S WAY ALL THE TIME.

[ LAUGHTER ] YOU GIVE HIM ALL THE SPACE HE NEEDED ALL THE TIME.

>> NOW, WHAT'S THE TECHNICAL TERM FOR SWITCH HITTER?

LATERAL SYMMETRY?

>> BILATERAL SYMMETRY.

EQUILATERAL ABILITY BOTH -- ON THE MIDDLE OF YOUR BODY, THIS SIDE WORKS AND THIS SIDE WORKS.

SO I DON'T BELIEVE IN PURE BILATERAL SYMMETRY BECAUSE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SOMEBODY SAYS, WELL, I'M A SWITCH HITTER AND IT'S NO DIFFERENT ON MY LEFT SIDE THAN MY RIGHT.

AND I SAY, OKAY, I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A PENCIL AND I WANT YOU TO WRITE YOUR NAME.

FIRST DO IT WITH YOUR LEFT HAND AND THEN DO IT WITH YOUR RIGHT HAND AND IF WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS TRUE, THE TWO SIGNATURES WILL BE IDENTICAL, RIGHT?

AND THEN THEY SAY, MAYBE NOT, FULLY BILATERAL.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT IN BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYBODY SIGN THEIR NAME LEFT AND RIGHT-HANDED AND THEY BE EXACTLY THE SAME.

BUT AS AMBIDEXTROUS GOES, PEOPLE HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO PHYSICAL THINGS ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE OF THE PHYSICAL BODY AND IT'S REFERRED TO AS, YOU KNOW, AMBIDEXTERITY OR BILATERAL SYMMETRY AND BY THE TIME I WAS 4 OR 5 YEARS OLD, MY BROTHERS NEW SOMETHING WAS GOING ON.

I'M THROWING THE BALL ONE WAY, THE NEXT TIME I THROW IT ANOTHER.

I BAT ONE WAY AND THE NEXT TIME I GRAB IT AND GOT OTHER WAY.

MY OLDEST BROTHER WAS 14 YEARS OLDER THAN ME AND MY OTHER BROTHER WAS SEVEN YEARS OLDER AND THEY SAW ME AS A KID CAN'T SAID SOMETHING'S GOING ON.

SING SINGLEMOST IMPORTANT THING GOING IN MY LIFE TO BE ABLE TO DO NA.

>> HOW DID YOU END UP CATCHING?

AT A YOUNG AGE, YOU FIT THE EQUIPMENT OR YOU JUST DECIDE I'M GOING TO BE A CATCHER, OR HOW DID THAT WORK OUT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A CERTAIN BODY TYPE, ESPECIALLY BACK THEN, THEY LOOKED FOR ALL THE TIME.

YOU HAD TO HAVE KIND OF A THICK MUSCULAR ROUNDED SHOULDERS, KIND OF LARGE HIPS AND THICK THIGHS.

PHYSICALLY TO ENDURE THAT KIND OF POSITION.

SO YOU GET KIND OF STEERED IN A CERTAIN WAY AND, YOU KNOW, CONTRARY TO WHAT -- WELL, WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT THINK, YOU KNOW, I USED TO PITCH.

I USED TO PLAY SHORTSTOP.

I USED TO PLAY RIGHT FIELD AND ALL THESE POSITIONS.

WHY?

BECAUSE ALL THE TIME GROWING UP, I HAD THE STRONGEST ARM.

AND YOU'LL FIND THAT IF YOU WALK OVER TO, YOU KNOW, BUSCH STADIUM OVER THERE AND ASK ANY ONE OF THOSE PLAYERS, THEY'LL SAY DID YOU EVER PITCH?

AND THEY'LL SAY, OF COURSE.

YOU SAY, WHY IS THAT?

BECAUSE WE ALL HAD THE STRONGEST ARM.

WE ALL THREW THE BALL HARDER AND FARTHER THAN EVERYBODY.

AND SO I WAS NO, YOU KNOW, EXCEPTION TO THAT RULE.

AND SO I COULD THROW, SO I COULD MAKE THE PLAY AT SECOND BASE AND I COULD PLAY SHORTSTOP, GO TO THE HOLE ON THE BACK END AND THROW IT ALL THE WAY ACROSS, AND WHEN IT CAME MY TEAM IN HIGH SCHOOL AND FEDERATION LEAGUES AND THE VARIOUS TEAMS I PLAYED, FOR, I PITCHED TOO BECAUSE I HAD THE BEST ARM.

SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT STEERS YOU IN A CERTAIN DIRECTION, AND BECAUSE I COULD HIT, THEY KNEW I WASN'T GOING TO PITCH.

AND BECAUSE I COULD REALLY HIT, THEY WANTED ME OUT THERE EVERY DAY.

AND BECAUSE PHYSICALLY I WAS KIND OF SHAPED THAT WAY AND COULD MANAGE IT PHYSICALLY, YOU SHOULD BE A CATCHER AND IT'S THE FASTEST WAY TO THE MAJOR, WHICH WAS TRUE AND I HEARD THAT IMMEDIATELY.

THE FASTEST WAY?

YEAH, THERE'S NO CATCHERS IN THE BIG LEAGUE CAN HIT.

THERE WAS A FEW.

BERRA.

>> BENCH.

>> YEAH, HE MIGHT -- HE'S MY CONTEMPORARY.

WHEN I WAS 12 YEARS OWED, I DIDN'T KNOW WHO BENCH WAS AND HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS.

WHO WERE THE MAJOR LEAGUE CATCHERS?

AND WHO WAS -- THAT GETS HARD, YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE LATE '50s AND '60s AND EARLY '70s TO COME UP WITH A GUY.

POWERS, ROSEBORO, EARL BATTY, THESE WERE CATCHERS IN THE MAJOR LEAGUE WHEN I WAS A KID WHO COULD HIT A LITTLE BIT, BUT MOST OF THEM COULDN'T HIT AT ALL.

>> IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WERE SUCH A GOOD HITTER IN HIGH SCHOOL THAT YOU TOOK BATTING PRACTICE WITH THE DETROIT TIGERS AND THERE WAS AN EXECUTIVE WITH THE TEAM, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE HIS NAME, BILL LA JOY WAS THERE.

>> YEAH, LONG TIME SCOUT.

>> HE SAID THE MOST UNUSUAL -- IN HIS AUTO BUYING ON GRAESKS HE SAID YOU WERE THE MOST UNUSUAL KID HE VISITED BECAUSE WHEN HE WENT TO YOUR HOUSE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT PLAYING IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES, YOUR PARENTS LEFT THE ROOM.

THEY LEFT THE HOUSE AND YOU CONDUCTED THE INTERVIEW SOLO.

>> WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER IS THE GUY, SAY, LIKE MYSELF, BY THE TIME I'M 14 YEARS OLD, I PLAYED IN THE CITY OF DETROIT, BIG METROPOLITAN AREA AND, YOU KNOW, BY THE TIME I WAS 14, LIKE SAY BIG DEREK JETER, SOMEBODY WHO REALLY, REALLY IS A SUPER ATHLETE, BY THE TIME HE'S 14 YEARS OLD, HE GREW UP IN KALAMAZOO, THEY NOT ONLY KNEW WHO HE WAS ALL OVER KALAMAZOO, GRAND RAPIDS, BATTLE CREEK, LANSING, AND METROPOLITAN AREA OF DETROIT, THERE'S A KID OUT THERE IN KALAMAZOO THAT YOU JUST GOT TO SEE.

HE PLAYED BASKETBALL, HE PLAYED FOOTBALL, AND HE PLAYED BASEBALL AND HE'S SOMEBODY'S NUMBER ONE SOMETHING.

I DON'T WANT TO SOUND LIKE A DOPE, BUT WHEN I WAS 14 YEARS OLD, I WAS LIKE THAT IN THE DETROIT AREA.

WHERE, THERE'S THIS SIMMONS KID OVER THERE, MAN, HE'S A HECK OF A FOOTBALL PLAYER, HE'S A HELL OF A CATCHER.

HE CAN REALLY HIT, YOU'VE GROTTO GO SEE HIM.

WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS WHETHER IT WAS LAJOIE, THE DETROIT TIGER ORGANIZATION KNEW WHO I WAS AND LAJOIE WAS ONE OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE PEOPLE THERE AND THE ROLES WERE CHANGED LATER, BUT BACK THEN THEY COULD TAKE A YOUNG KID WHO WAS NON-DRAFTED YET, 14, 15 YEARS OLD, AND SAY, HEY, THE TIGERS ARE GOING TO BE IN TOWN THIS WEEKEND, THEY'RE PLAYING THE YANKEES, WHY DON'T YOU COME DOWN ON FRIDAY, SATURDAY, AND SUNDAY, WE'LL PUT YOU IN A UNIFORM, LET YOU, YOU KNOW -- PUT YOUR UNIFORM ON WITH THE TIGERS THERE AND, YOU KNOW, IN THE CLUBHOUSE AND YOU GO OUT AND TAKE BATTING PRACTICE.

WELL, I WAS 14 YEARS OLD AND THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, THE TIGERS AND I'M 14 YEARS OLD AND I'M HITTING BALLS IN THE UPPER DECK.

NOT BECAUSE I'M WONDERFUL?

BUT BECAUSE I COULD.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU GO THROUGH THAT KIND OF STUFF ATHLETICALLY AT 14, 15, 16 YEARS OLD, MAN, YOU GET TO A PLACE WHERE YOU THINK YOU'RE JUST BIGGER THAN LIFE AND IN TERMS OF YOUR EGO AND IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, YOUR CONFIDENCE, IT'S JUST SOARING ALL THE TIME.

NOW, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY GOOD, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR A GUY LIKE DEREK JETER OR MIKE TROUT.

YOU THINK THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHO MIKE TROUT WAS IN NEW JERSEY WHERE HE GREW UP THERE, IN THE PHILADELPHIA REGION?

I MEAN, MIKE TROUT WAS KNOWN BY EVERYBODY.

I KNOW THAT BECAUSE I WAS A SCOUT FOREVER, YOU KNOW, AFTER I QUIT PLAYING.

SO I MEAN, YOU KNOW AND YOU HEAR ABOUT THESE GUYS AND THAT -- NUMBER ONE PITCHER TAKEN FOR THE CARDINALS HERE IN PAST WEEK, YOU THINK THIS KID HADN'T BEEN KNOWN FOR THE LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS BY EVERYBODY?

THAT'S WHAT I WAS LIKE THEN AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR EVERYONE.

OKAY?

>> I'M AFRAID TO SAY THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON NEXT UP.

ALVIN AND I COULD TALK TO YOU FOR HOURS.

>> I WANT EXTRA INNINGS!

>> EXACTLY.

>> YOU GUYS GOT ME ROLLING MAN AND NOW YOU'RE GOING TO STOP ME OFF.

>> WE'D LIKE TO WELCOME YOU BACK BACK.

HALL-OF-FAMER TED SIMMONS.

THANKS FOR JOINING US ON NINE PBS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> GO CARDINALS.

>> ABSOLUTELY!

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>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.