- Hi, I'm Marc Rotterman.

Coming up on "Front Row," Attorney General, Josh Stein, defends the SAFE Child Act in North Carolina's Supreme Court.

Is North Carolina in the running for a major biomedical facility?

And climate change stalls out in the US Senate.

Next.

- [Announcer] Major funding for "Front Row" with Marc Rotterman, is provided by Robert L. Luddy.

Additional funding provided by Patricia and Koo Yuen through the Yuen Foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities.

And by.

Funding for the Lightning Round provided by Nicholas B. and Lucy Mayo Boddie Foundation, A.E.

Finley Foundation, NC Realtors, Rifenburg Construction, and Stefan Gleason.

A complete list of funders can be found at pbsnc.org/frontrow.

[dramatic music] ♪ - Welcome back.

Joining the conversation, Donna King with "Carolina Journal," Democratic Senator, Jay Chaudhuri, Republican State Senator, Vickie Sawyer, and Travis Fain with WRAL.

Jay, let's begin with the SAFE Child Act, which is now currently being challenged in North Carolina's Supreme Court.

- That's right, Marc.

In 2020, the SAFE Child Act legislation that Senator Danny Britt and I both sponsored, it essentially opened a two-year window that temporarily suspends a statute of limitations for child sex abuse lawsuits, that allows survivors now to sue until the year 2021.

And as a result, a number of people have sued a number of institutions, including North Carolina School of the Arts that's been in the papers.

In 2020, a lawsuit was filed by three East Gaston High School students against the local Board of Education, because they oversaw a predatory wrestling coach.

Defense attorneys have argued that the measure violates their client's constitutional rights.

The case was heard before a three-judge panel.

That three-judge panel actually struck down the law, saying that it was unconstitutional because they said that it forbids the General Assembly from retroactively eliminating their client's rights.

And then earlier this month, Justice Samuel Ervin granted the plaintiff's petition that said that they will now hear this challenge to the court.

And to your point, Marc, Attorney General, Josh Stein now, has filed a brief defending the SAFE Child Act.

This was actually an idea that he had proposed to the General Assembly.

Essentially, his argument is that every victim deserves his day in court, and the SAFE Child Act does exactly that.

- Donna, what happens if it's ruled unconstitutional?

- Well, I think that then I think what will end up happening, is that that would be the challenge for the General Assembly if they wanna take up further action on it.

But generally, I think that just means it's dead.

I mean, this is something that would go away.

One of the things that the defendants are saying is that the constitution doesn't let you retroactively lift the statute of limitations on somebody who's already gone on trial.

But in this case, this is really about lawsuits to institutions that perhaps looked the other way, according to the plaintiffs of these cases.

So it's public school systems, the School of the Arts, things like that.

They're not criminal.

It wouldn't reopen the criminal statute of limitations.

- But a lot of these plaintiffs have repressed memories, right?

- Well, I think that's the argument that the bill sponsor said, and that's something that Josh Stein, the Attorney General, is arguing to the North Carolina Supreme Court.

- Vickie, weigh in here?

- Well, it's always an uncomfortable situation to talk about these type of things, but I'm glad that the General Assembly, and thank you to you and Senator Britt for championing this legislation.

As someone who's been involved in the school system, I understand that there are repressed memories.

These things take a long time to gen through even as an adult, so I'm appreciative of the work that is being done in this space.

- Travis?

- Yeah, just not just repressed memories, but as you grow up you decide maybe I want to deal with this, maybe I wanna take some action, whereas when you're younger you don't feel that way.

And I think it's important that it's civil suits.

I think it's important that these are people who may have turned a blind eye to things, just like you said, and not wanting to face liability for it.

I also wanna read from the dissent in this, because this is not a criminal law.

Criminal laws can't be retroactive, taxes can't be retroactive under our constitution.

But there's a question whether procedural things can be retroactive.

And that's what the dissenting judge in this case, who says it is constitutional, argued.

That this is procedural in nature and that it is within the General Assembly's powers to allow these later lawsuits.

- Jay, wrap this up in about a minute.

- So, I think one of the distinctions and arguments that Attorney General Stein's office has made, is this idea of due process.

And what the majority and the three-judge panel argued is that this was a due process violation.

But what Attorney General Stein's office is arguing, is this is not a property based claim, but is what's called a tort civil claim.

And to Travis's point, because it's not criminal in nature, but civil in nature, they're gonna argue that this is constitutional for those cases.

- Okay, I wanna move on and talk to Donna.

And by the way, great conversation.

Looks like we may be up for a major biomedical facility here?

- Yes, yes.

The US Department of Health and Human Services is proposing opening something similar to DARPA, but in this case it would be the Advance Research Project - - [Marc] Now, what's DARPA?

- Agency for Health.

That would be defense research.

So, this is really about - - [Marc] Okay.

health research.

What they say is that this would be a fast track, high risk, high reward research into everything from Alzheimer's to cancer to research, to all different kinds of medical research.

And North Carolina would like its bidding on this.

We're a phenomenal location on the East Coast, tremendous biotech agency, the university system, community colleges for labor and workforce.

But we're not the only ones in the game, Ohio, Massachusetts, Georgia, other states are vying for this.

Congress has already allocated in the budget and the appropriations for '22, $1 billion for this agency.

The Biden Administration would like it to see closer to six billion over three years.

It's a huge project.

And of course our congressional delegation, and I'm sure the Governor and the Commerce Department are really... - [Marc] The Governor's lobbying now.

- Yeah, they're putting a big package together to see - - Right.

- if we can land this here for North Carolina.

The question I have though, as a taxpayer, what is this agency doing that the CDC and the NIH aren't already doing, and is this a really an issue of creating these capabilities within the existing infrastructure we have.

That said, we're a great place for something like this.

- Donna, you think it may be predicated on whether we pass Medicaid expansion though, too, right?

- I mean, it could be.

We've got the Biden Administration up there watching us pretty closely and we've talked a lot about Medicaid expansion.

The House and the Senate have passed their own versions that would eventually theoretically lead to it.

But there's no doubt, between governor Cooper's priority being Medicaid expansion and of course the Biden Administration, that may be a carrot out there.

- Do you think we'd pass Medicaid expansion, Jay, after the election?

- After the election?

I'm not sure.

I mean, I'm not optimistic about it being passed after the election but... - Do you think it's 2023?

- I mean, I hope it's in 2023, where there's a reset.

I mean, look, I think, if Medicaid expansion becomes a criteria for whether they're gonna locate ARPA-H or not, it'll take Texas out of the mix, it'll take Georgia out of the mix, and Boston is clearly in the running too.

I mean, I will say that Adam Russell, who is the interim director of ARPA, is a Duke graduate, so there's some local ties for us as well, and look, I mean, I think the state's been on a hot streak, because there has been bipartisan support between the Republican General Assembly and Democratic governor, that's allowed us to become the number one state in business, and hopefully we can carry that momentum into bringing this federal agency here.

- Travis, we've been down this road before though.

We've been very close on several federal projects, right?

Military projects.

- Yeah, I mean, and we've kind of just missed out.

I mean, let's remember, Massachusetts, major bio cluster, the CDC is in Atlanta, so I mean, I kind of have to think we're an underdog here, but we do have a lot to sell, and we haven't mentioned the HBCUs, and there is this drive for diversity in all things these days, and having a really really solid HBCU system, or conglomeration of HBCUs in the state, is something that I guarantee you the state will hit hard, as it makes its pitch to the federal government.

- Vicky, put this in context.

- Well, for me, it's all about transportation, the infrastructure, and how we're gonna support this mass amount of companies coming in.

So, of course, I support them, but I'm also cautiously optimistic, because, for me, we cannot even fund and build the roads that we've promised to North Carolinians, as some estimated that the STI is below, or over-programmed by $8 billion.

So, thanks, I'm glad to have these folks in here.

I'm just always concerned, how are we gonna pay for it?

- Why don't you think we can... We can't fund the roads right now.

Is that because of inflation?

- Well, there's a myriad of reasons why, but inflation is definitely one of those.

Another one is that the programming just was over-promised and under-delivered, and that's not at anyone who's a Democratic Republican.

It was just an institutional change that has to be going on at Ncdot right now.

Under their new leadership, they actually are owning that, and they're moving forward, so I'm grateful for that.

It's just gonna take a while to catch up.

- [Marc] Donna, wrap this up in about 20 seconds.

- Well, we've, we've been down this road before.

Federal agencies, landing a federal agency is a different animal than landing a company, and that's something that we've seen in the past.

We lost the Army command here in Raleigh, just a few years ago, and so there's certainly a lot of political angles to this.

Does the governor, does our delegation have the pull it takes to land something like this?

We're certainly qualified, certainly in a good location, certainly have the corporate and private university resources here to do an excellent job for the country.

- Okay, I wanna talk about Joe Biden's last couple weeks.

His climate agenda seems to be in some peril.

So, all throughout the election, that we had heard from President Biden about the clean energy revolution, and that revolution meant about $2 trillion in spending, and a part of that was 100% carbon free by 2035, a net-zero greenhouse gas by 2050, and some temperature in the Paris Accord Agreement, keeping that together.

Unfortunately, that meant a huge roadblock called the West Virginia Senator, Joe Manchin, this week, and some people in the party are really saying that he's destroying the world as we know it, but it's interesting, he may actually be saving-- - In the Democratic Party?

- In the Democratic Party, but it may be interesting, he may be saving the Democratic Party, as we know it, because a recent survey that came out between the Siena College Poll and the New York Times-- - Siena College Poll.

- Yeah, thank you.

Says that, of those surveyed, only 1% see that the climate change is actually the top priority for them, and those in that 30 or below age range, which you think would be more progressive, only 3% of those actually decided that that was the number one issue for them.

- Jay, clearly Manchin thinks the green energy climate agenda is too expensive for America.

- I mean, he does, and I think that he's inserted himself in this debate, and it seems like he's been temporarily successful in scaling back the spending that Congress would put towards trying to push for addressing climate change, but look, I mean, that being said, I think you saw Present Biden look toward trying to take executive action.

He called climate change an emergency, and a clear and present danger, he announced-- - [Marc] But he didn't declare an emergency.

- Well, no, he did not declare an emergency-- - But he issued several executive orders.

- He did including spending money on building out 700,000 acres of commercial wind farms, which I think will help with clean energy.

He's gonna double the funding for climate resilience programs.

I mean, I think it's a good point about where climate change is in relation to inflation, since the economy really is dominating everything, but one thing that I will say is, if you look at a Pew Charitable Trust poll that, asked Americans about what Biden's approach to climate change is, whether federal government's doing too much or too little, actually majority of Americans think that we're not doing enough.

So, I think if you look within the category, most Americans, although, again, there's a partisan divide about that, would say that we need to do more.

- Donna is Biden trying to govern by executive order?

I noticed he's had 94 executive orders-- - Yes.

- To date.

- [Marc] More than Trump, Obama, and Bush.

- Which seems interesting to me, considering the Democrats also control Congress.

So, if he has to rely heavily on executive orders, that means he doesn't have either good support in Congress, or he is not leading well, or something's falling apart in this process.

When you control two of the three chambers of government, two of the three branches of government, you shouldn't have to rely on EOs.

That said, there is an interesting bill, which I don't anticipate it really going anywhere, given that Democrats control Congress.

Representative Hudson of North Carolina has proposed a piece of legislation that requires this government to put a fiscal note, a financial cost to EOs, to executive orders, and I think that that would be valuable for taxpayers.

If you can create law and edicts with executive orders, then you should also know how much they cost.

- Well, the reason, the Supreme Court, with the EPA, says you can't make law that way, right?

- Right, That's correct.

- I mean, agencies, and I assume that would apply to the president.

My friend.

- Listen, the people who are kind of done with climate change, and don't think it's that big of an issue, it's not done with you.

We talk about how expensive this is.

How expensive is it for the Outer Banks not to exist anymore, for the City of Miami to be gone in 100 years?

People may think that's not gonna happen, but the science tells us that's where we're headed.

The science has been clear for a very long time.

We keep kicking these cans down the road.

Luckily, we've kicked it far enough down the road, as a society, that the free market is starting to react to it, and Duke Energy and others are just on their own, without government mandates, and with some government mandates.

- I'm coming right back to you, because North Carolina is charting its own energy future, my friend.

- Yeah, to address climate change, the legislature passed a bill last year, HB 951 calling for a 70% reduction in CO2 emissions from Duke Energy's power plants.

That's just the basics though, and state regulators, along with Duke Energy, and a bunch of interveners, 'cause this works kinda like a court process.

They're gonna come up with the details, it's ultimately up to the utilities commission, that process is underway now.

Duke Energy's plan, what they wanna do, would rely more on natural gas than a lot of environmental groups want.

And also more than the solar industry and the wind industry would like to see.

Duke Energy says they have to have kind of this natural gas bridge to new technologies, as solar energy, and particularly battery storage, gets better and better and better and more reliable.

But they'd also be potentially burning hydrogen in those natural gas plants one day, and investing in small nuclear reactors, so small, modular, nuclear reactors.

And what critics say is that these are unproven technologies, and that we shouldn't be relying on them, even kind of 5, 10 years out.

There's gonna be a lot of back and forth on this over the summer, the Southern- - [Marc] What's the timeline?

- It's gotta be done by the end of the year, but people will be weighing in over the summer.

A Southern Environmental Law student was out with a paper this week that said, "Hey, you actually don't need natural gas, you can do all this, and cheaper, with solar and wind."

- [Marc] They gonna sign off on this?

- It's gonna be the North Carolina Utilities Commission, seven members, all appointed by Governor Roy Cooper, at this point.

- Environmental groups, though, Jay, are not happy with Duke right now, are they?

- They're not, I'd commend Travis's article, actually, it's a great summary of the number of issues.

But you're right, I mean- - [Marc] I thought it was too.

- But the environmental groups, I think, have raised a number of issues.

And I think, just to underscore what Travis has talked about, I mean, I think the Utilities Commission has to tackle a number of emerging issues that are coming out, based on the papers that they filed.

A couple things that are interesting, one is the environmentalists and the advocacy groups are questioning the actual modeling that's being used by Duke, so what are the inputs that obviously cause the output?

So the price of gas, for example, is something that has been disputed.

The second issue is the use of technology, natural gas that Travis talked about.

There is questions about whether this next generation of nuclear power will actually be feasible or not.

And what is the mix gonna be- - Europe is headed towards nuclear power, right?

- I mean, Europe has embraced, I think, nuclear power more so than the United States has.

And then, you know, the last...

I think the third issue, from my perspective, is also whether you cap solar energy or not.

And I think the environmentalists would like to see more about how much we use environmental energy in the mix.

But you know, the bottom line, to me, is that the Utilities Commission has to sort through a number of issues.

They've gotta do it by the end of December.

- Okay.

- And they've gotta do that while keeping costs low to consumers.

- Donna, your thoughts.

- Sure, so all of this is based on a piece of legislation called HB 951.

So this law builds in guardrails, and among them is lowest cost and most efficient.

And that right there changes the entire calculus of this proposal, because one of the things environmentalists say, as well as people are saying, "Look, you gotta follow the law, lowest cost to right payers, to households, and most efficient."

That means that all of the focus on solar and wind, which requires backups, dispatchable backups, to make sure that it's reliable, you know, that eliminates the lowest cost just right off the bat.

So both sides, people who are saying, "We wanna make sure that this is affordable for households and businesses in North Carolina, doesn't put us in the situation that Europe's in."

And then environmentalists are saying, "You're relying on this hydrogen technology down the road that really is unproven right now.

And could, eventually, if the reliance is on this technology, and solar, and wind, we could be looking at brownouts and blackouts, if we don't have these dispatchable backups, which requires redoing the entire grid."

- Excuse me, Vicky.

- Well, I just spent some time with folks in Texas, California, this past week, and their whole nervousness around, especially legislatures, "Can we charge our phones?

Are we going to be able to make sure that people in nursing homes can actually get the air conditioning that they need?"

- They're worried about the grid?

- Well, absolutely, especially in Texas, which for me, is such an energy-production state, that that was a concern, that I was surprised that I would hear coming from those legislators' mouths.

But it is forefront for them.

So I appreciate what Donna was saying, is that there are guard rails around this, and it is about the one that has the most reliable and least cost to the consumer.

- Okay, great conversation, I want to go to the most under-reported story of the week now.

- Absolutely, so most under-reported for me, the North Carolina Democratic Party has announced that they're not going to follow the unionization of their own staffers, which I think is really an interesting piece.

So the party here in North Carolina, the staff is unionized, and the parties decided, at this point, not to recognize that unionization.

Considering that they've been making this such a part of their platform moving into 2022.

- What was the rationale?

- Well, they really haven't offered one, and you know, it's been coming up on Twitter, and...

But you're right, actually, absolutely, you know, it's also about what it's always about; it's about cost.

And that's one of the things that I think we're gonna see coming up.

They're gonna have to offer some sort of explanation.

- Jay, under-reported, my friend.

- Under-reported for me was, as we all recall, when the Dobbs decision came out that overturned Roe v. Wade, a basic premise of Justice Alito's majority decision, was that the constitution can protect the right of abortion, only if it is, quote, "Deeply rooted in our history and traditions."

"Washington Post" has an interesting perspective piece that talks about a 1792 case, in which Thomas Jefferson, John Marshall, and Patrick Henry, actually viewed abortion as a private matter.

I encourage your viewers to read that.

- Okay, go ahead, my friend.

- Well, for those of us who live in Eastern North Carolina, this is no news, but for me, a Piedmonter, did not realize how much the military presence has a footprint in North Carolina.

And actually, the North Carolina Military Affairs Group just started out a campaign to let all of us know how important the military community is to us.

I did not realize that the defense industry is like, the second largest industry in our footprint here.

We also are ranked seventh, in the number of military folks that we have, in the United States, which to me was... Yeah, which is absolutely fantastic.

So you can learn more about our military at ourncmilitary.com.

- Travis?

- Would recommend folks read some coverage recently, from Lisa Sorg of "NC Policy Watch", about the Cooper administration's work, trying to get people back into their homes from Hurricane Matthew, it is going slower than I think, many of us would've anticipated.

It's been five years, I get it, it's hard, layering these state and federal programs.

We had a pandemic to deal with, the labor market is messed up, supply chains are messed up.

But again, it has been more than five years.

And what Lisa has found is distressing, "NC Policy Watch".

There will also be a legislative oversight committee meeting on this sort of thing, in the coming weeks.

- [Marc] Is there money in the pipeline that's not coming through, what is it?

- There's tons of money, there are a lot of different moving parts.

And again, read Lisa Sorg's story, she's written maybe a dozen pieces recently.

- Is the governor on this?

- No, I mean, there have been challenges, because of some transition, in dealing with housing issues, when Governor Cooper first took office in... - I know that they have been focused on trying to do this.

The focus on this is trying to resolve the issue.

- I'm sure they're trying, it just... - Well, it's a pretty significant problem though.

Okay, let's go to "Lightning Round."

Who's up, and who's down this week, Donna?

- Up, I'm gonna say fundraising, particularly in North Carolina's judicial races.

We've got two North Carolina Supreme Court seats that are on the ballot.

And fundraising is pouring in.

Democrats appear to be out raising Republicans at this point in some of those races.

And they're critical.

I think that you're gonna see a lot of focus on them, more so than you would in other election cycles.

- But doesn't the Super PAC take care of that?

[all laugh] Don't you think there's a high probability that a Super PAC's gonna come in?

- I think we're seeing a lot of focus all over the place, in states particularly like North Carolina, where judicial decisions are really impacting.

My down is Attorney General, Josh Stein.

It appears that Stein is possibly trying to head off action either by the SBI or some other level of authority.

He has filed a lawsuit asking a federal court to declare a 1931 law unconstitutional.

Now, that law makes it a misdemeanor to have campaign ads that knowingly are false, and there's been an investigation at the State Board of Elections, and then was passed on to Wake County.

There's a hearing on Monday.

- That's kind of antiquated though.

That's a nuisance lawsuit.

- That law came out before political speech was declared as First Amendment.

- [Marc] Who's up, and who's down this week, quickly?

- Yeah, so who's up?

Marriage equality is up.

This past week 47 House Republicans joined Democrats to pass the legislation to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act.

Among the Republicans... - Where's Tillis on that in the Senate?

- Well, so it hasn't been voted on the Senate.

- [Marc] No, but he said a little something about it.

- I think he said he was inclined to support it if my memory serves me correct.

- [Marc] Senator Thom Tillis.

- That's right.

Among the Republicans who supported it was Elise Stefanik, the House GOP Conference Chair and the Chair of the Freedom Caucus, Scott Perry.

So that bill was aimed at Supreme Court and who's down?

I think on the broader theme of fundraising nationally, I think Republican US Senate candidates, Democrats in the 10 closest US Senate races, have out raised Republicans.

Among small dollar donors, if you look at Mark Kelly of Arizona has out raised his opponent $23 million to $2 million.

- Vicky, who's up and who's down this week?

- Definitely up anxiety about the ever shrinking effect of the federal infrastructure bill, not only inflation but also unionized labor is two of those things that industry folks are citing that are actually eating up the ability to add capability or capacity into our infrastructure.

Down, poor Charlotte.

They now have been left at the dance again by David Tepper.

And so they had Rock Hill, South Carolina.

That has fallen through.

And now at Eastway Mall, that has fallen through too.

- Travis, who's up and who's down this week, my friend?

- I gonna say COVID cases.

We test waste water for virus particles, up like 55% over the last week.

I'm not saying lock it down, but if you wanna take some precautions, when there are spikes, it's that time.

- And we do wish the President to get well soon.

- As well as everyone else.

I'm gonna say down, Ted Budd, fairly lackluster fundraising recently.

He put out a video asking people to donate so that he could buy barbecue for his staff, said he was trying to buy barbecue.

I submit to you that if you are trying to buy barbecue in North Carolina and not succeeding, you got a problem.

[all laugh] - Donna, what's the headline next week?

- Yeah, I think next next week we're gonna see some numbers that may indicate that we really are in a recession.

If we have two down quarters in a row, we're in a recession.

Those numbers due out next week.

I think we're also gonna see that consumers in the consumer price index, that people are spending less and largely due to inflation.

This is the critical issue.

- Are gas prices coming down based on demand, do you think?

People are not going to the gas stations as much, not driving as much?

- It could be, but I do think it's interesting that the White House took credit for them coming down but wouldn't take credit for them going up.

- What do you say about that, my friend?

[Marc laughs] - Well, because it's true.

I think if you looked what happened after Russia invaded Ukraine and the access to petroleum reserves, the prices went up.

- Headline next week?

- My headline next week is with really, really low turnout in Wake County, Willie Rowe defeats Sheriff Gerald Baker in the primary.

- Headline next week?

- Beleaguered Hunter Biden.

It sounds like there are charges that are swirling around and we'll see if the pending charges for gun possession and alleged tax violations actually hold.

- Well, if the Republicans take back the House, there will definitely be a lot of investigations about Hunter Biden, I think, particularly because he didn't register as a foreign lobbyist.

- Blaming presidents for gas prices is one of the sillier things we do in this country.

Next Tuesday is runoff day.

There's some city council races.

In Wake County, we've got a Sheriff's race.

If you're a Democrat, if you've got a ballot, vote!

- Great job, panel.

That's it for us.

Thanks for watching.

Hope to see you next week on Front Row.

Have a great weekend.

[dramatic music] ♪ - [Announcer] Major funding for Front Row with Marc Rotterman is provided by Robert L. Luddy.

Additional funding provided by Patricia and Koo Yuen through the Yuen Foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities, and by funding for the Lightning Round provided by Nicholas B. and Lucy Mayo Boddie Foundation, A.E.

Finley Foundation, NC Realtors, Rifenburg Construction, and Stefan Gleason.

A complete list of funders can be found at PBS nnc.org/frontrow.

[dramatic music] ♪ ♪