>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> THE BIGGEST INTERNAL CRISIS IN ISRAEL'S HISTORY.

AS THE GOVERNMENT PASSES A CONTROVERSIAL MOVE TO WEAKEN THE SUPREME COURT.

AND MASS PROTESTS CONTINUE.

I ASK A LEADING JOURNALIST WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THEIR DEMOCRACY.

AND -- >> IT IS HORRENDOUS.

I'VE NEVER BEEN SO SCARED IN MY LIFE.

>> URGENT EVACUATIONS AT THE HEIGHT OF HOLIDAY SEASON AS WILDFIRES CONSUME PARTS OF GREECE.

ANOTHER SIGN OF DEVASTATING CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND IN THE UNITED STATES, I SPEAK TO ATTORNEY MISSY SIMS, AN EXPERT AND ACTIVIST RICHARD WILD, IN THEIR EFFORT TO HOLD OIL AND GAS COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE.

>>> AND, SPAIN DID NOT GO EXTREME RIGHT IN THE ELECTIONS, SO, WHAT IS NEXT?

>>> AND A SMALL CHANCE OF SUCCESS.

HARI TALKS TO HARVARD ECONOMICS PROFESSOR RAJ CHETTY ABOUT HOW HIGHLY SELECTIVE COLLEGES SHAPE AMERICA'S LEADERS.

♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- CANDACE KING WEIR.

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>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, AND ISRAEL, WHERE MONTHS OF PROTESTS OVER THE VERY NATURE OF THEIR DEMOCRACY HAVE FINALLY COME TO A HEAD.

THE RULING GOVERNING COALITION HAS TODAY APPROVED A CONTROVERSIAL NEW LAW WHICH STRIPS THE SUPREME COURT OF THE POWER TO DECLARE GOVERNMENT ACTIONS UNREASONABLE.

THIS, DESPITE MONTHS OF FURIOUS AND ORGANIZED NATIONWIDE PROTESTS.

AS WELL AS REPEATED ADVISE AND DISAPPROVAL FROM WASHINGTON, ISRAEL'S MOST IMPORTANT ALLY.

THE WHITE HOUSE IS NOW CALLING TODAY'S MOVE, QUOTE, UNFORTUNATE, AND IT IS CALLING FOR CONSENSUS.

ONE OF NETANYAHU'S MOST FAR RIGHT ULTRA NATIONALIST ALLIES SAYS THIS MAKES ISRAEL A LITTLE MORE DEMOCRATIC, AND A LITTLE MORE JEWISH, AND HE WENT ON TO SAY, THIS WILL BE JUST THE BEGINNING.

WHILE THE NATION'S RESPECTED ARMY RESERVISTS WARN THIS IS WHERE WE DRAW THE LINE.

THREATENING NOT TO TURN UP FOR VOLUNTEER SERVICE.

SO, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IS UNCLEAR, BUT IT IS AMONGST THE BIGGEST DOMESTIC CRISES ISRAEL HAS EVER FACED.

NOAH LANDAU IS JOINING ME NOW FROM TEL AVIV.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SO, WHAT NEXT?

I MEAN, THAT'S THE BIG -- FIRST OF ALL, WHAT IS THIS, HOW BAD IS IT FOR THE CRITICS, AND WHAT NEXT?

>> WELL, THIS IS A VERY DRAMATIC -- SIX MONTHS OF MASS PROTESTS.

JUST PASSED A LAW THAT BASICALLY LIMITS JUDICIAL POWER, AND THE ABILITY OF ISRAELI JUDGES TO OVERRULE GOVERNMENT DECISIONS.

THIS SPECIFIC BILL, WHICH IS ONLY JUST A PART OF NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT PLAN TO DRAMATICALLY WEAKEN THE JUDICIARY, IS BASICALLY REVOKING WHAT WE CALL THE REASONABLENESS STANDARD.

THIS STANDARD ALLOWS THE COURT TO BLOCK GOVERNMENT DECISIONS THAT ARE HIGHLY UNREASONABLE.

WITHOUT IT, THE COURTS ARE JUST UNABLE TO INVALIDATE ANY DECISION THAT IS MADE BY ELECTED OFFICIALS, MEANING THE GOVERNMENT, THE PRIME MINISTER, MAYORS, MINISTERS, ON THE GROUNDS OF UNREASONABLENESS, WHICH IS BASICALLY A DECISION THAT FOCUSES ON POLITICAL INTERESTS, WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATION FOR PUBLIC INTEREST.

>> SO, LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU, WE JUST QUOTED THEM SAYING THIS IS GOING TO MAKE IT MORE DEMOCRATIC, NOT LESS, AND WE KNOW THAT YOUR COUNTRY DOES NOT HAVE A FORMAL CONSTITUTION AND A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS IS COURT-TESTED, IT'S COURT PRECEDENT, AND THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

HOW OFTEN, THEN, IS THAT UNREASONABLE STANDARD USED BY GOVERNMENT?

HOW MANY TIMES DOES THE SUPREME COURT, YOU KNOW, REACT TO IT?

EITHER AGREEING OR DISAGREEING WITH IT?

>> SO, NOT A LOT.

WE KNOW, ACCORDING TO DATA FROM THE JUSTICE MINISTRY, THAT THIS ONLY HAPPENS A FEW TIMES A YEAR.

IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SUPREME COURT DECISIONS, WHICH ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES, WE SEE THAT APPROXIMATELY ON AVERAGE IT COULD BE FIVE TIMES A YEAR IN THE PAST TEN YEARS.

IT'S NOT A LOT OF DECISIONS, IT'S ONLY -- THESE RULINGS ARE -- THERE ARE QUITE A FEW OF THEM, BECAUSE THE JUDGES RESERVE THEIR USE OF THIS STANDARD JUST TO VERY, VERY UNIQUE, SPECIFIC CASES.

IT ALSO ONLY APPLIES IN ADMIN STRAIVE, NOT CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, SO, OFTEN, FOR EXAMPLE, IT WILL BE USED TO BLOCK CORRUPT GOVERNMENT APPOINTMENTS.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN JANUARY, THE HIGH COURT DISQUALIFIED A MEMBER OF COALITION FROM SERVING AS MINISTER, BECAUSE OF HIS CONVICTION FOR TAX EVASION.

CORRUPTION AS A PUBLIC OFFICIAL, BRIBERY AND FRAUD.

THE LAW DIDN'T PROPERLY TAKE THIS SPECIFIC STORY INTO ACCOUNT, BUT IT IS HIGHLY UNREASONABLE TO APPOINT SUCH A MAN TO THE JOB.

>> OKAY.

SO, WE HAVE SEEN THE ISRAELI PEOPLE CONDUCTING, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY CALL PRO-DEMOCRACY PROTESTS AGAINST THIS MOVE BY NETANYAHU AND HIS ULTRA RIGHT COALITION PARTNERS, AND THEY HAVE NOT LET UP.

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS.

WHAT NEXT?

AS WE SAID, THE MILITARY RESERVISTS ARE THREATENING NOT TO SERVE.

WE KNOW THAT A FORMER PRIME MINISTER IS TELLING THEM TO HOLD OFF, HE'S GOING TO TRY TO FILE A COUNTER PETITION TO THE SUPREME COURT TO BLOCK ALL THIS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE NEXT MOVE?

>> SO, THE PEOPLE ON THE STREETS, THE PROTEST MOVEMENT, IS REALLY UPSET, YOU KNOW, SEEING THIS LAW ACTUALLY PASS, BY THE WAY, ALL THE OPPOSITION JUST WALKED OUT OF THE VOTE, IT WAS 64-0.

THIS IS NOW -- PEOPLE ARE NOW ON THE STREETS IN ISRAEL AND THERE'S A MASSIVE QUESTION OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH ALL THESE MILITARY VOLUNTEERS, AS YOU SAID, INCLUDING PILOTS, WHICH ARE VERY CRITICAL TO ISRAEL'S SECURITY, WHO SAID THEY WILL NOT SERVE ANYMORE, IF THIS BILL IS APPROVED.

AND WE JUST SAW THAT HUNDREDS OF ISRAELI ARMY RESERVISTS, SOME INDEED IN CRUCIAL ROLES, WILL BE SAID THIS, TODAY, THIS EVENING, THAT THEY'LL STOP SHOWING UP FOR DUTY FOLLOWING THE VOTE.

>> WELL, THAT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT, SINCE THEY MAKE THE BACKBONE OF THE ISRAELI STATE AND THERE'S SO MUCH REVERENCE PAID TO YOUR MILITARY AND THE SECURITY ESTABLISHMENT, SO, THAT'S -- THAT IS A HUGE BUG DEAL.

WE ALSO HEAR THAT MAIN TRADE UNIONISTS ARE POTENTIALLY TALKING ABOUT EITHER NATIONWIDE OR OTHER KIND OF ROLLING STRIKES, ALREADY MANY BUSINESSES HAVE STARTED TO STRIKE AND HAVE GO SLOWS.

WHY IS THIS SO IMPORTANT TO NETANYAHU, WHO CLAIMS TO BE SECULAR, WHO ASSURES HIS ALLIES AND EVERYBODY THAT HE'S GOT THE HANDS, YOU KNOW, BOTH HANDS ON THE STEERING WHEEL AND THAT HE'S A DEMOCRAT, AND I THINK HE EVEN CALLED HIMSELF, MAYBE I'M WRONG, BUT YOU KNOW, ISRAEL WILL REMAIN A LIBERAL JEWISH DEMOCRACY.

AND YET THEY SAY THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING?

>> EXACTLY.

SO, BASICALLY, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THE RESULT OF A LONG PROCESS, WHERE NETANYAHU, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO REMEMBER HAS INDICTMENTS, HE'S ON TRIAL, HE HAD TO FORM A COALITION THAT ONLY HAD THE MOST EXTREME RIGHT WING REPRESENTATIVE IN IT.

SO, THIS IS THE MOST RELIGIOUS AND THE MOST RIGHT WING EXTREME GOVERNMENT THAT WE EVER HAD IN OUR HISTORY, AND NETANYAHU IS, I WOULDN'T SAY THEIR PRISONER, BECAUSE HE HAS A CHOICE, BUT STILL, BECAUSE OF HIS TRIAL, HE'S IN THAT SPECIFIC COALITION THAT HAS DEMANDS.

AND THESE DEMANDS, A PART OF THEM, IS THIS JUDICIAL OVERHAUL.

>> ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THE WARNING, THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING, COULD ACTUALLY LEAD AFTER THE EVIDENCE OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE KNESSET TODAY, DESPITE THE MASSIVE PROTESTS, AND DESPITE WHAT THEY PROMISED WOULD BE AN ATTEMPT TO GAIN CONSENSUS, APPARENTLY, THERE'S BEEN NO MOVE TOWARDS SOME KIND OF CONSENSUS, DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO GET EVEN MORE DRACONIAN?

WHAT ARE THE NEXT MOVES?

THIS IS JUST ONE PART OF THIS BILL.

>> I AM VERY CONCERNED, BECAUSE BASICALLY, THE GOVERNMENT IS NOW ON A CROSS ROAD.

THEY CAN CHOOSE WHETHER THEY ARE SATISFIED WITH THIS, YOU KNOW, VICTORY, FOR THEM, IT'S -- THIS BILL IS A MASSIVE VICTORY, SO, THEY CAN CHOOSE TO JUST SAY, OKAY, WE GOT OUR ONE VICTORY, AND NOW WE WANT EVERYTHING TO CALM DOWN, OR THEY CAN CHOOSE TO GO ON A FULL WAR WITH, YOU KNOW, HALF OF THE POPULATION, AND SAY, NO, WE'RE GOING, YOU KNOW, FOR THE FULL PLAN, THE FULL JUDICIARY OVERALL, WHICH OTHER PIECES OF LEGISLATION, AND THAT WILL BE PRETTY MUCH CATASTROPHIC.

>> SO, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY LEVERAGE?

THE UNITED STATES, AS WE SAID, IS ISRAEL'S MOST IMPORTANT ALLY IN THE WORLD, I MEAN, $4 BILLION A YEAR IN MILITARY AID ALONE, AND VERY SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, MORAL ALIGNMENT AND DEMOCRATIC ALIGNMENT, BUT THIS PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN QUITE SIGNIFICANTLY PUBLICLY DISAPPOINTED AND DOES THAT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON BENJAMIN NETANYAHU OR HIS COALITION PARTNERS?

>> MANY IN THE PROTEST MOVEMENT HOPED THAT WHATEVER BIDEN TOLD NETANYAHU ON THE PHONE OR WHENEVER HE MET PRESIDENT HERZOG JUST THIS WEEK THAT HE WILL SAY SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE THEM CHANGE THEIR MIND.

IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

AND ALSO, WE SAW, YOU KNOW, THAT TODAY'S ANNOUNCEMENT, YOU KNOW, THAT THIS IS A SADDENING MOMENT, IT'S NOT A VERY, YOU KNOW, HARSH ANNOUNCEMENT, BUT ALSO, I THINK THE TEST WILL BE NOW THIS CROSSROAD THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, IF WE SEE THAT THE GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW, JUST IS SATISFIED BY PASSING THIS SPECIFIC BILL AND THEN CALMS DOWN, MAYBE THAT ALSO HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH U.S. PRESSURE.

BUT IF THEY DON'T, THEN IT MEANS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION SAID THINGS, YOU KNOW, SAID THAT THEY WERE AGAINST IT, BUT PROBABLY DID NOT PUT ENOUGH PRESSURE.

>> NOAH LANDAU, THANK YOU SO MUCH, INDEED.

AND OF COURSE, WE PAY ATTENTION TO ALL OF THIS, BECAUSE ISRAEL IS CALLED THE ONLY DEMOCRACY UNTIL YOUR REGION, SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LAYING OUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

>>> NEXT, WE TURN TO THE DEVASTATING FIRES THAT ARE CONSUMING PARTS OF GREECE.

AND LEADING GOVERNMENTS LIKE THE ONE HERE IN BRITAIN TO SEND FLIGHTS TO EVACUATEIDAY MAKERS.

TENS OF THOUSANDS ARE FLEEING FOR SAFETY, CAMPING OUT ON AIRPORT FLOORS.

AND IN THE UNITED STATES, 44 MILLION PEOPLE ARE UNDER EXCESSIVE HEAT WARNINGS AND ADVISORIES.

SOUTHWESTERN CITIES LIKE PHOENIX, ARIZONA, HAVE BEEN BAKING UNDER RECORD TEMPERATURES FOR WEEKS NOW.

>> A HEAT WAVE BEARING DOWN ACROSS THE GLOBE, WITH LITTLE RELIEF IN SIGHT.

MILLIONS OF AMERICANS ARE UNDER HEAT ALERTS.

AND NOW WILDFIRES ARE ABLAZE, CREATING MORE CHALLENGES FOR SOME COMMUNITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.

RESIDENTS IN PARTS OF MARICOPA COUNTY IN ARIZONA WERE TOLD BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO EVACUATE, AS FIREFIGHTERS BATTLE THE DIAMOND FIRE, WHILE FACING SCORCHING HOT TEMPERATURES.

>> THE HEAT HAS BEEN UNRELENTING IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> IN PHOENIX, SUNDAY MARKED 24 CONSECUTIVE DAYS OF AT LEAST 110 DEGREE TEMPERATURES.

AND IN LAS VEGAS, THE CITY HAS SEEN TEN CONSECUTIVE DAYS OF TEMPERATURES AT OR ABOVE 110 DEGREES.

TYING THE LONGEST STREAK OF DAYS WITH THOSE HIGH TEMPERATURES.

IN PARTS OF ARIZONA, THE HEAT IS SO BRUTAL, EMERGENCY ROOMS ARE FILLING UP WITH PEOPLE BEING TREATED FOR HEAT-RELATED ILLNESSES.

THIS DOCTOR SHOWS US THE ICE BED USED TO TREAT SOME OF THE WORST PATIENTS.

>> WE TRY TO FLOW ICE ON HERE ON THE BOTTOM, GET A LITTLE BIT ON THE BOTTOM.

AND THEN WE LIKE TO THROW IT ALL ABOVE THEM.

SO, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THEN IS, THE ONLY THING SHOWING IS GOING TO BE THEIR HEAD.

THAT, IN AN IDEAL WORLD.

WE LIKE TO THROW WATER ON THERE, IT'S BEEN SHOWN TO DROP THEIR TEMPERATURE A DEGREE EVERY FIVE MINUTES IF DONE PROPERLY.

>> THE DIRECTOR OF THE ARIZONA BURN CENTER SAYS PEOPLE ARE GETTING BURNT ON THE PAVEMENT, ACCOUNTING FOR HALF THE PATIENTS IN THE VALLEYWISE ICU.

>> THE PAVEMENT IS SO HOT THAT IT ONLY TAKES A FRACTION OF A SECOND TO GET A PRETTY DEEP BURN.

AND TO LAY ON A HOT PAVEMENT OR A HOT SURFACE FOR 10, 20 MINUTES, HALF AN HOUR, AN HOUR, THAT'S FULL THICKNESS BURN.

>> PHOENIX'S MAYOR EXPLAINS HOW THEY ARE BATTLING THE HEAT.

>> WE HAVE MOBILE COOLING UNITS THAT CAN GO TO AN EMERGENCY SITE LIKE A FIRE.

WE EVEN HAVE TACTICS WHERE WE CAN GO OUT WITH IVs THAT HAVE BEEN COOLED, AND THAT CAN COOL PEOPLE FROM THE INSIDE, WHICH CAN SAVE LIVES.

ANOTHER PROGRAM WE HAVE THAT'S VERY POPULAR IS OUR COOL PAVEMENT PROGRAM, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT HOW WE DESIGN THE CITY.

>> ATTORNEY MISSY SIMS AND RICHARD WILDS, PRESIDENT OF THE CENTER FOR CLIMATE INTEGRITY, ARE ON A MISSION TO HOLD BIG OIL AND GAS CORPORATIONS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE DAMAGE THEY'RE DOING TO THE PLANET.

AND THEY ARE JOINING ME NOW.

THANK YOU, AND WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

MISSY, LET ME GO TO YOU FIRST, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A CASE STUDY THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO GET THROUGH THE COURTS AS WE SPEAK.

AND I BELIEVE IT STEMS FROM THE HURRICANE, MARIA, THAT SO CATASTROPHICALLY HIT PUERTO RICO.

TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU SAW WHEN YOU WENT TO VISIT THERE AND WHAT KIND OF REVELATION YOU HAD.

>> WELL, IT WAS APOCALYPTIC, AND IT'S VERY INTERESTING YOU USE THE WORD REVELATION.

WHEN I GOT OFF THE PLANE, I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.

IT LOOKED LIKE AN ATOMIC BOMB HAD BEEN DROPPED ON PUERTO RICO.

I HAD BEEN THERE BEFORE THE HURRICANE, AND I HAD BEEN THERE A FEW WEEKS AFTER.

YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BELIEVED IT.

THERE WAS JUST MUD AND BROKEN SIDEWALKS AND ROADS AND TREES WERE LEVELED, ALL THE FOILAGE WAS GONE AND REPLACED WITH MUD AND RAIN AND SAND.

AND, YOU KNOW, 4,645 DIED POST-MARIA.

THEY HAD TO BURY THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS, YOU KNOW, AND IT WAS -- IT WAS DEVASTATING.

>> GOSH, I SEE IT MAKES YOU VERY, VERY EMOTIONAL, AND YOU SPOKE ABOUT HOW THOSE GRAVES HAD BEEN DISTURBED AND HOW FAMILY MEMBERS AND THEIR REMAINS WERE BEING DISTURBED BY THIS TERRIBLE, AS YOU SAY, APOCALYPTIC EVENT.

THE BASIS OF YOUR ACTIVITY NOW, YOU AND MISSY, IS TO TAKE THE OIL AND GAS COMPANIES TO COURT.

AND ESSENTIALLY USING THE RICOH ACT, THE RACKETEERING PRECEDENT.

HOW, DAVID, IS THIS GOING TO WORK?

HOW DO YOU CONTACT THE TWO, OIL AND GAS COMPANIES, RACKETEERING, AND THE KIND OF TERRIBLE CLIMATE DAMAGE THAT WE'RE SEEING?

>> THESE CASES ARE ALL SORT OF PART OF A MOVEMENT OF ABOUT 44 MUNICIPALITIES AND STATES THAT HAVE FILED CASES BASED ON THE FACT THAT THE INDUSTRY KNEW THAT THEIR PRODUCTS WOULD CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE, AND THEN THEY LIED ABOUT IT.

IN MISSY'S CASE, THIS RACKETEERING CASE, THAT IS SIGNIFICANT, BECAUSE IT INDICATES THAT THE COMPANIES FORMED WHAT IS CALLED A CORRUPT ENTERPRISE AND THEY BASICALLY WORKED TOGETHER TO PUSH DISINFORMATION AND LIES ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEIR PRODUCTS WERE CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE.

THEY'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ROUGHLY 50 YEARS AND THEY CONTINUE TO DO IT TODAY.

THEY USED TO LIE ABOUT THE PROBLEM.

NOW THEY LIE ABOUT THE SOLUTIONS.

BUT THE IMPORTANT THING FOR RACKETEERING CASE IS THEY GET TOGETHER AND THEY COORDINATE THIS THROUGH WHAT'S CALLED A CORRUPT ENTERPRISE UNDER THE LAW.

SO, MISSY'S CASE IS THE FIRST RACKETEERING CASE.

THERE'S BEEN ONE MORE FILED, AND WE EXPECT TO SEE MORE OF THESE CASES FILED MOVING FORWARD.

>> MISSY, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT EVEN BY PROSECUTING THIS CASE, OR TAKING ON THIS CASE AND USING THIS -- THIS LEGAL STANDARD, THAT IN FACT REPARATIONS OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, DAMAGES, WILL BE PAID?

CAN THE COURTS AFFORD TO DO THIS AGAINST THESE COMPANIES?

WILL THEY?

OR ARE YOU LOOKING FOR SOMETHING NOT SYMBOLIC, BUT SOMETHING THAT MIGHT JUST -- THAT MIGHT HAVE A PRECEDENT AND AN AFFECT?

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE RESULT OF YOUR CASE?

>> WELL, I'M NOT A POLICYMAKER, I'M A LAWYER.

AND SO, I SUE FOR DAMAGES.

AND WE'RE PREPARED TO GO TO TRIAL.

AMERICAN COURTS HAVE LONG HELD CORPORATE MALFEASANCE TO TASK.

AND WE INTEND TO SEE IT TO THAT END.

WHATEVER HAPPENS WITH THAT, THAT IS NOT MY CONCERN.

MY CONCERN IS TO SEEK DAMAGES ON BEHALF OF PUERTO RICO.

>> WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN ACTUALLY SUCCESSFULLY GET DAMAGES ON THIS, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CASE?

BECAUSE IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, IT'S THE FIRST, IT'S UNPRECEDENTED.

>> WE'RE THE FIRST CLIMATE CHANGE-RELATED CASE THAT HAS GONE AFTER A SINGLE EVENT.

AND WE HAVE THE SCIENCE TO BACK IT UP.

SO, THE SCIENCE IS THAT THE RAPID INTENSIFICATION OF MARIA WAS CAUSED BY CARBON IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

THESE DEFENDANTS WERE 40.01% RESPONSIBLE FOR CARBON IN THE ATMOSPHERE SINCE 1965.

AND THEY COLLUDED TOGETHER TO CREATE THIS CORRUPT ENTERPRISE TO LET THE WORLD THINK THAT THAT WASN'T THE CASE, THAT THIS WAS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, WHEN, IN REALITY, THEY HAD PARTICULARIZED INDIVIDUAL INFORMATION THAT SAID OTHERWISE.

SO, AND IN FACT SHELL, IN 1998 MEMO, CALLED THE TINO MEMO, THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE, PREDICTED IN 2010 THE EASTERN SEA BOARD OF THE UNITED STATES WOULD BE HIT WITH A HURRICANE OR THEY CALLED EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS, THAT WOULD INITIATE A CLASS ACTION.

SO, WE FILED IT SEVEN YEARS AFTER SHELL PREDICTED IT.

>> WOW.

SO, THE COMPANY ITSELF PREDICTED SUCH A THING MIGHT HAPPEN.

RICHARD, AS YOU SEE THIS CASE, AND YOU PROBABLY OBVIOUSLY SEEN IT DIFFERENT, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO ARE BRINGING CERTAIN CASES, SAYING THAT GOVERNMENTS THROUGH THEIR POLICIES AND THEIR ALLOWING FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES ESSENTIALLY UNREGULATED BEHAVIOR ARE AFFECTING THEIR OWN CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO A HEALTHY ATMOSPHERE.

IN EUROPE, WE HAVE THE SO-CALLED GRANNIES CASE THAT IS BEING BROUGHT FOR THE SAME REASONS.

HOW DO YOU SEE THE LAW POTENTIALLY TAKING OFF WHERE OTHER ATTEMPTS TO MITIGATE CLIMATE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SUCCEED?

>> RIGHT, WELL, THIS IS WHY THE COMPANIES ARE SO SCARED OF THESE CASES.

BECAUSE IN THE UNITED STATES, I DON'T THINK IT'S ANY SECRET THAT THE OIL COMPANIES HAVE A STRANGLEHOLD ON THE CONGRESS, AS FAR AS CLIMATE POLICY GOES.

THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO BLOCK ACTION FOR THE PAST, AT LEAST FOUR DECADES, WHILE THEY KNEW THEY PRODUCTS WERE CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE COURTS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY.

IT'S A MUCH TOUGHER FORUM FOR THEM.

YOU KNOW, AND THE FACTS OF THESE CASES ARE VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

THEY KNEW, THEY LIED, AND SO THEY SHOULD PAY FOR THE DAMAGES.

VERY SIMILAR TO TOBACCO CASES, OPIOID CASES HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

THESE ARE VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD CASES.

YOU MAKE A PRODUCT, YOU KNOW IT'S GOING TO HARM PEOPLE, YOU KNOW IT'S GOING TO KILL PEOPLE, IF YOU LIE ABOUT THAT, THEN YOU'RE LIABLE, RIGHT?

AND YOU'VE GOT TO PAY FOR THE DAMAGES.

AND THAT'S WHAT THESE CASES ARE ABOUT.

THEY'RE VERY SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD, THERE'S NOTHING NOVEL ABOUT THE LAW, SAME WITH THE RACKETEERING CASE, NOTHING NOVEL ABOUT WHAT MISSY'S DOING, REALLY.

YOU KNOW, IN THE UNITED STATES COURTS, IN THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT OF HOLDING COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE, FOR THEIR ACTIONS, FOR THE DAMAGES THEY CAUSE, THE U.S. COURTS LEAD THE WORLD, AND SO, THIS IS, I THINK, OF PARTICULAR CONCERN TO THE COMPANIES, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT STATE COURTS IN PARTICULAR IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF HOLDING COMPANIES THAT LIE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT LYING.

>> EVENTUALLY, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, TOBACCO AND OPIOIDS WENT ON FOR DECADES DOING THAT STUFF.

SO, YES, EVENTUALLY, THIS COULD ACTUALLY BE A TURNING POINT THAT YOU'RE PURSUING HERE.

MISSY, I WANT TO ASK YOU SOMETHING, BECAUSE AT THE BEGINNING, I DID USE THE WORD REVELATION, YOU KNOW, SPECIFICALLY, YOU USED THE WORD APOCALYPTIC, AND I KNOW THAT YOU HAPPEN TO BE VERY RELIGIOUS PERSON.

AND YOU'VE EVEN SAID, I BELIEVE, THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS YOUR CO-COUNSEL.

TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES, FOR A LONG TIME, DIDN'T WANT TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT CLIMATE MITIGATION OTHER THAN TALKING ABOUT CREATION CARE.

AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC, FOR A LONG TIME, HAS NOT WANTED TO FACE UP TO THIS MAJOR SCIENTIFIC PROBLEM.

TRYING TO EQUATE, YOU KNOW, THE DENIERS WITH THE SCIENCE.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT BEING YOUR CO-COUNSEL.

>> WELL, FAITH IS AT THE CORE OF EVERYTHING THAT I DO.

AND JUSTICE IS AT THE CORE OF EVERYTHING THAT I DO.

AND I BELIEVE JESUS IS JUSTICE.

HE IS JUSTICE.

HE CAME FOR JUSTICE.

AND WE ARE HIS HANDS AND FEET ON THIS EARTH, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU COULD SEE 4,645 PEOPLE DIE AND NOT BE COMPELLED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

JAMES 4:17 SAYS, IF YOU KNOW THE GOOD THAT YOU SHOULD DO, AND YOU DON'T DO IT, IT IS A SIN.

AND SO, FOR ME, THAT IS THE DRIVING FORCE IN EVERYTHING THAT I DO.

>> AND IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN ON THIS KIND OF THING.

YOU SUED A GAS GIANT AWHILE BACK.

TELL ME HOW THAT CAME ONTO YOUR PLATE AND HOW YOU SUCCESSFULLY, YOU KNOW, SUED THEM?

>> SO, I WAS A CITY ATTORNEY SINCE 1995 WHEN I GRADUATED LAW SCHOOL AND I REPRESENTED LITTLE TINY TOWNS ALL OVER NORTH CENTRAL ILLINOIS.

AND I WOULD FIND THE AVERAGE PERSON FOR, YOU KNOW, ORDNANCE VIOLATION SUCH AS DOG POOP IN THEIR YARD, TALL WEEDS, BROKEN WINDOWS, HAVING THREE DOGS IN TOWN INSTEAD OF TWO, YOU KNOW, ALL THE THINGS THAT I TOOK PEOPLE TO COURT FOR, AND I FELT SOMEWHAT LIKE A BULLY AND I WAS NOT BORN TO BE A BULLY.

I WAS RAISED TO HELP PEOPLE EVERY DAY.

AND ONE OF THE TOWNS I REPRESENTED WAS THE 14th WORST ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER IN THE COUNTRY.

EXXON, CBS AND VIACOM MADE FILM, AND IN THE MEANWHILE, WE HAVE BLUE MUD PUDDLES FROM THE NICKEL, CADMIUM, LEAD.

AND THE MAYOR JUST SAID, MISSY, WHAT CAN WE DO?

BECAUSE EVERYBODY WAS POINTING FINGERS AT EACH OTHER, NOBODY WAS CLEANING THIS MESS UP.

AND I SAID, WE'RE GOING TO SUE THEM.

AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHEN I CONSULTED WITH THEM, TOLD ME TO FINE THEM.

SO, WE FINED THEM FOR LITTERING.

>> I MEAN, IT'S EXTRAORDINARY.

AND FROM THAT, TO THIS.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SEEING A THROUGH LINE HERE IN YOUR LEGAL PROCEDURE.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT, I MEAN, YOU BASICALLY ARE HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE, AND LET'S SEE WHAT THE LAW DECIDES.

RICHARD, SOMETIMES WE LIKE TO TURN INWARDS AND HOLD OUR OWN SELVES UP FOR EXAMINATION, AND WE KNOW, SADLY, TO THE DETRIMENT OF CLIMATE, THAT HISTORICALLY, THE MEDIA, ESPECIALLY IN THE UNITED STATES, HAS FAILED TO IN INWILL LINK EXTREME WEATHER TO THE SCIENCE AND CONTINUE, TO DO THAT, BY AND LARGE.

IT'S MUCH BETTER, MANY OF THE BIG ORGANIZATIONS HAVE DONE MEA CULPAS AND ARE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE.

BUT I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU, AS AN ACTIVIST, AND THE PRESIDENT OF YOUR ORGANIZATION, HOW DOES THE STORYTELLING, THE PUBLIC -- THE PUBLIC TELLING OF THIS SCIENTIFIC PROBLEM, AFFECT WHAT YOU CAN ACHIEVE?

>> WELL, I THINK PUBLIC SENTIMENT IS VERY IMPORTANT IN THIS, AND YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THESE CASES, AND THE CASES PROVIDE A FACTUAL BASIS FOR THIS STORY, IS TO CHANGE IN PEOPLE'S MINDS, CHANGE THE STORY FROM CLIMATE CHANGE IS A TRAGEDY, THAT WE ARE ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR AND IF WE HAD JUST DRIVEN LESS OR TURNED DOWN THE THERMOSTAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE, WHICH IS REALLY NOT TRUE, TO THE FACT THAT IT'S A CRIME, IT'S A TRUE CRIME STORY.

THESE COMPANIES HAVE COMMITTED PROBABLY THE MOST SERIOUS CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY EVER CONTEMPLATED, WHICH IS TO PUT THE ENTIRE PLANET AT RISK.

YOU KNOW, WITH HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLES LIVES IN DANGER EVERY DAY.

TODAY IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF IT.

SO, YEAH, I THINK THAT'S THE GUTS OF THESE CASES.

AND THAT'S THE NARRATIVE THAT WE NEED TO PUSH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE NARRATIVE.

THIS IS -- PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CONVINCED BY THE INDUSTRY THAT IT'S THEIR PROBLEM.

ONE OF THE THINGS THE INDUSTRY DID, WAS TO CONVINCE PEOPLE CLIMATE CHANGE IS THEIR FAULT, IF THEY DROVE LESS IT WOULD SOLVE THE ISSUE.

THEY SHIFTED THE GUILT TO PEOPLE WHEN THE GUILT BELONGS WITH THEM.

AND THESE CASES GO A LONG WAY TO HELPING PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT A STRATEGY, IT'S A CRIME THAT'S BEEN FORCED UPON THEM BY THE OIL COMPANIES, WHO KNEW THAT THEIR PRODUCTS WERE GOING TO DO THIS, AND WHEN AHEAD AND LIED ABOUT IT ANYWAY, AND PUT US ALL IN THE SITUATION WE'RE IN TODAY.

>> SO, MESSY, ARE YOU SURPRISED, OBVIOUSLY, THAT THE COMPANIES IN QUESTION BASICALLY HAVE FREQUENTLY COMMENTED ABOUT THESE COURTROOM IS NOT THE PLACE TO RESOLVE IT, THE PLACE TO ADDRESS IT IS THE GOVERNMENT.

MANY U.S.

JUDGES HAVE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION THEMSELVES DURING A LOT OF THESE CASES.

AND I THINK YOUR CASE IS GOING TO BE, BY NEXT YEAR, EARLY NEXT YEAR, WE SHOULD KNOW THE RESULT OF YOUR CASE.

WHAT -- WHAT DO YOU SAY TO WHAT THE FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES SAY, THAT DON'T EVEN BRING IT TO COURT, IT'S NOT THE PLACE?

>> THAT'S AMERICAN JURISPRUDENCE.

THAT'S WHAT WE BUILT ON.

IF YOU HAVE A CASE, YOU BRING IT BEFORE THE COURT.

YOU BRING IT BEFORE THE JURY.

THE JURY DECIDES THAT QUESTION.

SO, WE HAVE AN OPEN COURT IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND A JURY WILL DECIDE THIS ISSUE, WHETHER IT'S IN PUERTO RICO OR ONE OF THE OTHER CASES THAT HAVE BEEN FILED.

THEY CAN'T -- THEY CAN'T STOP US.

>> WELL, MISSY, RICHARD, THANK YOU BOTH VERY, VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING.

>>> BUT LET'S RETURN NOW TO THOSE DANGEROUS WILDFIRES THAT HAVE TURNING SUMMER VACATIONS INTO TRAVEL NIGHTMARES IN PARTS OF GREECE.

FIRES ARE BURNING IN SEVERAL CORNERS OF THE COUNTRY.

AND WE GET MORE NOW FROM CORRESPONDENT SAM KYLIE.

>> IT'S A REGULAR VISITOR, WILDFIRE, AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE OR WHEN IT WILL STRIKE.

THIS IS TOURISM IN THE 21st CENTURY.

THE LATEST MAELSTROM IN SOUTHERN EUROPE, AN ISLAND OF ANCIENT RUINS FACING A MODERN APOCALYPSE.

INTENSE HEAT WAVES HAVE TURNED FORESTS INTO DECEMBER KATED TINDER, YEARNING FOR A SPARK TO ROAR INTO FLAME.

AND ANYTHING THAT FAILS TO FLEE THE INFERNO HAS LITTLE CHANCE OF SURVIVAL.

GREEK AUTHORITIES HAVE EVACUATED TENS OF THOUSANDS FROM POPULAR RESORTS AT PEAK SEASON, AND THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S THE LARGEST SUCH OPERATION IN THE COUNTRY'S HISTORY.

>> ALL THE MONEY, PASSPORTS, CLOTHING, WE HAD TO LEND A WOMAN SOME OF MY WIFE'S CLOTHES, BECAUSE SHE HAD NOTHING TO WEAR.

TERRIBLE.

>> BRITISH TOUR OPERATORS ARE FLYING EMPTY PLANES HERE TO BRING DESPERATE TOURISTS HOME.

POWERFUL WINDS HAVE MADE LIFE JUST ABOUT BARABLE FOR PEOPLE ON THESE ISLANDS LIVING THROUGH THIS HEAT WAVE, BUT THOSE WINDS ARE FANNING THE FLAMES OF THESE INFERNOS.

AND THE PROBLEM IS SPREADING.

THE LATEST, OVERNIGHT, THE ISLAND OF CORE FEW, WHERE THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN EVACUATED AND POLICE ARE BOLSTERS THEIR RANKS IN ANTICIPATION OF MORE TO COME.

THE GREEK GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN BATTLING WILDFIRES ACROSS THE COUNTRY FOR A WEEK.

DURING WHAT'S EXPECTED TO BE THE LONGEST HEAT WAVE THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER SEEN.

AS TEMPERATURE RECORDS ARE SHATTERED ACROSS EUROPE AND THE WORLD, EVERY DAY, OUR PLANET HAS BECOME SLIGHTLY MORE UNLIVEABLE.

>> Translator: WE ARE EXPERIENCING HERE AND IN MANY COUNTRIES EXTREME CLIMATIC EVENTS.

PLEASE, I RENEW MY APPEAL TO THE LEADERS OF THE NATIONS, TO DO SOMETHING MORE CONCRETE TO LIMIT POLLUTING EMISSIONS.

IT IS AN URGENT CHALLENGE AND CANNOT BE PUT OFF.

IT CONCERNS EVERYONE.

LET US PROTECT OUR COMMON HOME.

>> AS HEAT WAVES AND FIRES ARE ESCALATING YEARLY IN SOUTHERN EUROPE, THE THREAT IS NOW EVEN PERHAPS TO THE PONTIFF'S OWN HOME.

>> NOW, IS A UKRAINIAN DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL SAYS HIS COUNTRY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR A DRONE ATTACK IN MOSCOW.

RUSSIA SAYS IT DOWNED AT LEAST TWO DRONES THAT HIT A PAIR OF BUILDINGS IN MOSCOW EARLY TODAY.

AND IN AN ATTACK IN CRIMEA, RUSSIA SAS UKRAINE FIRED 17 DRONES, HITTING A RUSSIAN AMMUNITION DEPOT.

MEANWHILE, THE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT, VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, HAS VOWED RETALIATION FOR A WEEKEND OF RELENTLESS STRIKES BY RUSSIAN FORCES, MISSILES HEAVILY DAMAGED HISTORIC CATHEDRAL IN ODESA.

CORRESPONDENT ALEX MARQUARDT IS THERE.

>> PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAD SAID THAT RUSSIA WOULD FEEL THE RETALIATION FOR ALL THE STRIKES THAT WE'VE SEEN HERE IN ODESA, AND NOW, UKRAINE'S DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR CLAIMING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT OVERNIGHT DRONE STRIKE IN MOSCOW, WHICH DID DO LESS DAMAGE, FAR LESS DAMAGE THEY'VE SEEN HERE IN ODESA.

WE ARE IN THE TRANSFIGURATION CATHEDRAL.

CHURCH OFFICIALS HAVE ASKED US TO PUT HELMETS ON BECAUSE OF ALL THE WORK THAT IS GOING ON, THE DEBRIS THAT IS FALLING FROM THE ROOF.

I WANT TO SHOW YOU THIS CORNER OF THE CHURCH.

THIS IS WHERE THE ROCKET CAME THROUGH THE ROOF, GOING DOWN TWO STORIES.

THAT DAYLIGHT, THAT SUN COMING THROUGH THE ROOF AND BRIGHTENING UP THIS OTHERWISE DARK CATHEDRAL.

OVER HERE IS THE ALTAR, YOU CAN SEE UP THERE, THOSE PILLARS, NOW OFF TO THE SIDE, THAT ALTAR JUST LEANING OVER, AND REALLY ONLY STAYING UPRIGHT BECAUSE IT IS LEANING UP AGAINST A WALL.

AND THEN FARTHER UP IS THE BEAUTIFUL DOME OF THIS CATHEDRAL.

ALL OF ITS WINDOWS HAVE BEEN BLOWN OUT.

BELOW THAT, THE FRES COS HAVE BEEN KNOCKED DOWN.

WE'VE SEEN LARGE SECTIONS OF THE ROOF COMING DOWN, AS THESE WORKERS SEEK TO CLEAR IT.

THEY SAY THAT WILL TAKE SEVERAL WEEKS, BUT IT COULD BE MONTHS OR YEARS BEFORE THIS -- THIS CATHEDRAL IS FULLY REPAIRED.

THE KNAVE GOES ALL THE WAY BACK THERE.

AND IN THE CORNER, THERE WAS A FIRE, WE'RE TOLD THAT A SHOCKWAVE STARTED AN ELECTRICAL FIRE.

NOW, THIS CHURCH WAS DESTROYED IN 1936 WHEN STALIN WAS IN POWER.

IT WAS REBUILT WHEN UKRAINE GOT INDEPENDENCE.

AND NOW, OF COURSE, IN A SIGNIFICANT STATE OF DOES REPAIR.

IT IS ATTACKS LIKE THESE ON CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE, ON BUILDINGS THAT FRANKLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CONFLICT THAT NOW HAS PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY CALLING FOR MORE AIR DEFENSE SUPPORT FROM WESTERN ALLIES, FOR WHAT HE CALLS A FULL-FLEDGED AIR SHIELD FOR UKRAINE.

>> AND JUST A NOTE, THOSE HISTORIC BUILDINGS HAVE CAUSED THE IRE OF UNESCO, SAYING THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE RUSSIANS SHOULD NOT ATTACK THOSE KINDS OF STRUCTURES INSIDE UKRAINE.

SINCE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT'S CONTROVERSIAL DECISION TO END AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, AMERICAN COLLEGES ARE NOW BEING PRESSURED TO STOP LEGACY ADMISSIONS.

IT'S A PROCESS THAT HISTORICALLY BENEFITS WHITE, WEALTHY BENEFITS.

RAJ CHETTY RECENTLY INVESTIGATED THIS PRACTICE, AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF SUCH HIGHLY SELECTIVE ADMISSIONS, AND HE IS JOINING HARI TO DISCUSS THOSE FINDINGS.

THIS CONVERSATION IS PART OF OUR ONGOING INITIATIVE ABOUT POVERTY, JOBS, AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA CALLED "CHASING THE DREAM."

>> RAJ, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU RUN OPPORTUNITY INSIGHTS, WHICH LOOKS AT THE DIFFERENT FORCES THAT ARE GIVING KIDS CHANCES OR NOT GIVING THEM CHANCES AT SUCCESS.

SO, YOU JUST CRANKED OUT A REPORT HERE ABOUT HIGHLY SELECTIVE COLLEGES, WHAT WE THINK OF IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS.

WHY DID YOU DO THAT, AND WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> THANKS, HARI.

WHAT WE'RE DOING IS LOOKING AT THE ROLE OF A SMALL NUMBER OF COLLEGES, HIGHLY SELECTIVE COLLEGES AND WHAT IMPACT THEY HAVE ON ECONOMIC MOBILITY IN THE U.S. NOW, TO START, YOU MIGHT SAY, THESE COLLEGES, THEY EDUCATE ONLY SOMETHING LIKE HALF A PERCENT OF AMERICANS, SO, IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS, THEY CAN'T BE VERY IMPORTANT IN DRIVING INEQUALITY AND SOCIAL MOBILITY IN THE U.S. AS A WHOLE.

HOWEVER, THEY DO PLAY THAT VERY OUTSIZED ROLE IN SHAPING AMERICA'S LEADERS.

SO, IF YOU LOOK AT MEASURES LIKE WHAT FRACTION OF LEADING POLITICIANS, WHAT FRACTION OF INVENTORS, SCIENTISTS, SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, LEADING ARTISTS, ET CETERA, BENT TO ONE OF THESE I I HAVE LEAGUE OR OTHER SIMILAR COLLEGES, THOSE NUMBERS ARE VERY LARGE.

OFTEN 30%, 50% OF FOLKS IN THESE POSITION OF INFLUENCE HAVE GONE TO ONE OF THESE COLLEGES.

>> I'M LOOKING AT THE REPORT HERE, AND IT SAYS THAT -- IF YOU GRADUATED FROM ONE OF THESE 12 COLLEGES, 15% OF THE TOP 0.1% OF THE UNITED STATES OF INCOME DISTRIBUTION, A QUARTER OF ALL U.S.

SENATORS, HALF OF ALL THE RHODES SCHOLARS AND THREE-QUARTERS OF SUPREME COURT JUSTICES APPOINTED IN THE LAST 50 YEARS WENT TO ONE OF THESE 12 SCHOOLS.

YOU MEAN, THAT'S AN INCREDIBLY SMALL GROUP OF SCHOOLS THAT PRODUCES THIS GROUP OF LEADERSHIP.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

AND THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THESE SCHOOLS IN PARTICULAR.

THE PEOPLE THEY'RE CHANNELING INTO THESE POSITIONS HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF INFLUENCE ON SOCIETY IN GENERAL, AS CEOs OF COMPANIES, MAKING OUR LAWS, INVENTING NEW THINGS AND SO ON.

SO, MOTIVATED BY THAT, WHAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON IS ASKING, WHO IS GETTING INTO THESE COLLEGES?

BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO MATTER IN TERMS OF WHO MIGHT BE IN THESE POSITIONS OF INFLUENCE.

WHO IS GETTING IN, AND HOW MIGHT WE MAKE COLLEGES MORE EQUITABLE?

SUPPOSE, HARI, YOU TAKE A SET OF KIDS THAT HAVE THE SAME S.A.T.

SCORES.

AND YOU ASK, SUPPOSE YOU'RE A KID FROM A HIGH INCOME FAMILY, SAY, THE TOP 1% OF THE INCOME DISTRIBUTION, AND I'M A KID FROM A MIDDLE CLASS FAMILY, AND WE BOTH HAVE THE SAME S.A.T.

SCORES, SAY WE BOTH GOT A 1500 ON THE S.A.T., WHICH PUTS US AT IN THE 99th PERCENTILE.

WHAT ARE THE OLDS THAT YOU GO TO ONE OF THESE COLLEGES AND THAT I GO?

IT TURNS OUT, YOU ARE 2 1/2 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO GO TO AN IVY LEAGUE COLLEGE, RELATIVE TO ME, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE THE SAME EXACT S.A.T.

SCORES, IF YOU COME FROM A FAMILY IN THE TOP 1%.

SO, THESE COLLEGES TEND TO ENROLL A DISPROPORTIONATE SHARE OF KIDS FROM HIGH INCOME FAMILIES.

>> SO, WHAT ABOUT IF THESE HIGH INCOME STUDENTS WERE TO APPLY TO DIFFERENT SCHOOLS?

HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY MIGHT NOT GET IN THERE?

BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU POINT OUT IS THE INFLUENCE OF LEGACY ADMISSIONS, MEANING, IF MY DAD WENT THERE OR I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS THAT WENT THERE, HOW MUCH OF A FACTOR IS THAT?

>> IF YOUR PARENTS WENT TO ONE OF THESE COLLEGES, YOU TYPICALLY HAVE A QUITE SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE IN TERMS OF YOUR ODDS OF GETTING IN.

WE ESTIMATE YOU ARE ABOUT FIVE TIMES AS LIKE LITTLE TO GET IN TO ONE OF THESE COLLEGES AS A CANDIDATE WITH COMPARABLE CREDENTIALS, WHOSE PARENTS DID NOT HAPPEN TO GO TO THAT COLLEGE.

NOW, WHY DOES THAT AMPLIFY THE HIGH INCOME ADMISSIONS ADVANTAGE?

FOLKS THAT WENT TO PLACES LIKE HARVARD AND YALE AND PRINCETON HAVE HIGH INCOMES, SO NATURALLY, THE KIDS OF THOSE PARENTS ARE COMING FROM HIGH INCOME FAMILIES ON AVERAGE, AND THAT'S CONTRIBUTING TO THE HIGH INCOME ADMISSIONS ADVANTAGE THAT WE STARTED OUT TALKING ABOUT.

SO, THAT'S ONE IMPORTANT FACTOR.

THE OTHER IMPORTANT FACTORS ARE WHAT WE CALL NON-ACADEMIC RATINGS.

SO, THESE SCHOOLS PRACTICE, AS YOU MIGHT KNOW, WHOLISTIC ADMISSIONS.

THEY DON'T JUST LOOK AT YOUR TEST SCORES, THEY LOOK AT OTHER THINGS.

WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITIES WERE INVOLVED IN?

WHAT IS YOUR OVERALL PORTFOLIO THAT YOU LOOK LIKE FROM YOUR HIGH SCHOOL AND SO ON?

AND WHAT WE FIND IS THAT KIDS FROM HIGH INCOME FAMILIES, THE TOP 1% IN PARTICULAR, ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO GET HIGH NONACADEMIC RATINGS FROM ADMISSIONS COMMITTEES, AND THAT'S COMING ENTIRELY FROM THE FACT THAT THEY ATTEND CERTAIN HIGH SCHOOLS, TYPICALLY ELITE PRIVATE HIGH SCHOOLS, VERY EXPENSIVE SCHOOLS, WHICH TEND TO PRODUCE VERY HIGH NONACADEMIC RATINGS FOR THEIR STUDENTS, RELATIVE TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO, WHY MIGHT THAT BE?

YOU KNOW, YOU GET INVOLVED IN MORE ACTIVITIES, YOU HAVE GREATER SUPPORT FROM YOUR TEACHERS AND GUIDANCE SCONCE LOR COUNSELORS IF YOU GO TO A SMALL SCHOOL, WHERE THEY ARE HELPING YOU BUILD YOUR PROFILE.

IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, ONE GUIDANCE KONS LAR FOR 600 KIDS ON AVERAGE, THAT'S JUST NOT AS FEASIBLE.

SO, THAT CREATES ANOTHER BIG ADVANTAGE FOR KIDS FROM HIGH INCOME FAMILIES.

AND THEN THE THIRD FACTOR IS ATHLETIC RECRUITMENT.

SO, YOU MIGHT HAVE THE INTUITION THAT ATHLETES COME ACROSS THE INCOME DISTRIBUTION, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

10% OF THE STUDENTS ATTENDING ARE RECRUITED ATHLETES, AND THEY COME FROM HIGH INCOME FAMILIES, ACTUALLY.

>> WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN THE WAKE OF AN IMPORTANT SUPREME COURT RULING THAT SAID THAT USING RACE AS ONE OF THE DATA POINTS TO CONSIDER A STUDENT'S ADMISSION INTO A COLLEGE IS BASICALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

SO, WHAT YOU'RE POINTING OUT HERE IS INTERESTING, BECAUSE IT'S NOT RACE, BUT THERE ARE CERTAINLY FACTORS THAT TIP THE SCALES IN FAVOR OF HIGH INCOME STUDENTS, IN A WAY THAT, WELL, THE REST OF US DO NOT EVEN HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMPETE ON, BECAUSE WE'RE JUST NOT WEALTHY, WE DIDN'T GO TO THOSE PERFECT SCHOOLS THAT CREATED THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR US, AND WE NIGHT NOT HAVE HAD PARENTS THAT ALREADY WENT TO THESE SCHOOLS.

>> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT, HARI.

AND SO, FOLLOWING THE SUPREME COURT DECISION, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, FOCUSED ON RACE, WHERE AS WE'RE FOCUSED ON CLASS HERE, THEY ARE RELATED BUT DIFFERENT.

A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION THAT HAS ENSUED HAS FOCUSED ONLY POSSIBLE CLASS-BASED AFFIRMATIVE ACTION POLICIES.

SO, IF WE CAN'T LOOK DIRECTLY AT RACE, MAYBE WE CAN GIVE A HAND TO KIDS FROM LOWER INCOME FAMILIES, MAYBE THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE.

WHAT WE'RE FINDING HERE IS, BEFORE YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT, IN A SENSE, PUTTING A THUMB ON THE SCALE FOR KIDS FROM LOWER INCOME FAMILIES, THE FIRST THING WE CAN DO IS JUST TAKE THE THUMB OFF THE SCALE THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE, IN FAVOR OF KIDS FROM HIGH INCOME FAMILIES.

JUST MAKE IT MORE NEUTRAL BY INCOME BEFORE THINKING ABOUT GIVING AN ADVANTAGE, EVEN, TO KIDS FROM LOWER INCOME FAMILIES.

THAT ITSELF WOULD HAVE QUITE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON DIVERSITY AT THESE COLLEGES THAT ARE SHAPING SOCIETY.

>> YOU KNOW, JUST RECENTLY, WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY BECAME THE FIRST ONE TO COME OUT AND SAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO USE LEGACY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO USE THE FACT THAT YOUR PARENTS OR GRANDPARENTS WENT TO THIS COLLEGE AS ONE OF THOSE DECISION CRITERIA.

DO YOU THINK THAT WILL CHANGE THINGS?

>> I THINK IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS HAPPENING NOW ABOUT WHETHER THESE KINDS OF ADMISSIONS PRACTICES MAKE SENSE.

PROMPTED PARTLY BY THE SUPREME COURT DECISION.

I THINK LOTS OF COLLEGES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO REVISIT HOW THEY DO ADMISSIONS.

AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH THIS NEW STUDY IS, IT'S IMPORTANT TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, A BROAD LOOK AT WHETHER WHAT WE'RE DOING MAKES SENSE, AND ONE THING I'D EMPHASIZE IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT LEGACY, NONACADEMIC RATINGS AND ATHLETICS, SO FORTH, YOU MIGHT MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT MAYBE IT MAKES SENSE TO PUT SOME WEIGHT ON THOSE FACTORS BECAUSE THOSE KIDS MAYBE ARE GENUINELY MORE QUALIFIED, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE BETTER OUTCOMES, THEY'RE GOING TO REACH THOSE POSITIONS OF LEADERSHIP THAT WE STARTED OUT TALKING ABOUT.

BUT ACTUALLY, WITH THESE DATA, WE'RE ABLE TO FOLLOW HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF KIDS OVER TIME, AND LOOK AT HOW THEY ENDED UP DOING TEN YEARS AFTER COLLEGE.

AND WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS THAT THERE'S ACTUALLY NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT THE KIDS WHO ARE GETTING THESE ADMISSIONS ADVANTAGES, THE LEGACY STUDENTS, THE ONES WITH THE HIGH NONACADEMIC RATINGS, HAVE ANY BETTER OUTCOMES.

IN FACT, THEY HAVE SOMEWHAT WORSE OUTCOMES THAN THE KIDS WHO DON'T HAVE THOSE ADVANTAGES, WHICH, IN MY VIEW, MAKINGS IT QUITE A BIT HARDER TO JUSTIFY WHY WE'D HAVE THOSE PREFERENCES.

>> WHERE IS THE DATA?

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?

>> RIGHT, SO, IN OUR TEAM, HARI, WE STUDY ISSUES OF ECONOMIC MOBILITY AND OUR APPROACH IS A BIG DATA APPROACH.

SO, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS, LINKING DATA FROM SEVERAL DIFFERENT SOURCES.

FROM FEDERAL INCOME TAX RECORDS, COVERING STUDENTS AND THEIR PARENTS, TO DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DATA ON COLLEGE ATTENDANCE TO INTERNAL DATA FROM MANY COLLEGES ACROSS AMERICA ON WHO APPLIED, WHO GOT IN, WHO ENDED UP COMING.

SO, INTERNAL ADMISSIONS RECORDS.

ALL OF THAT DATA IS LINKED AND THEN ANALYZED.

SO, THAT'S WHAT ALLOWS US TO UNDERSTAND PEOPLE'S PARENTAL INCOME BACKGROUNDS, FOLLOW THEIR TRAJECTORIES OVER TIME, LOOK IN DETAIL AT HOW ADMISSIONS OFFICE RATINGS ARE AFFECTS OUTCOMES.

THAT'S THE POWER OF BIG DATA, BEING ABLE TO STUDY THESE QUESTIONS.

>> WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT SURPRISED YOU WHEN YOU SAW THIS?

>> YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK TWO THINGS SURPRISED US.

SO, FIRST, IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY TO LOOK AT PRIOR WORK ON THESE ISSUES, IT SUGGESTS THAT GOING TO ONE OF THESE COLLEGES MIGHT NOT ACTUALLY MATTER SO MUCH BASED ON THIS LOGIC THAT -- THINK ABOUT THE VERY SELECTIVE SET OF KIDS WHO ARE GETTING INTO A PLACE LIKE HARVARD OR YALE AT THIS POINT, HAVE ADMISSIONS RATES OF LESS THAN 5%, YOU ARE PICKING A VERY SMALL SET OF VERY TALENTED KIDS WHO PRESUMABLY COULD HAVE DONE WELL, EVEN HAD THEY NOT GONE TO THESE COLLEGES.

THERE'S A BIG DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER WE SEE GREAT OUTCOMES FROM THESE SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING THAT'S ADDING VALUE, OR IT'S JUST THAT THEY'RE SELECTING A SET OF KIDS THAT WOULD HAVE DONE WELL ANYWAY, RIGHT?

AND IF ANYTHING, THERE WAS SOME PRIOR WORK THAT'S BEEN PICKED UP IN POPULAR DISCUSSIONS WHICH SUGGESTED THAT MAYBE IT DOESN'T MATTER SO MUCH, MAYBE IT'S MORE ABOUT WHO IS GETTING IN AS OPPOSED TO THE AFFECTS OF THESE COLLEGES.

WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THESE NEW DATA IS USING AN APPROACH OF COMPARES KIDS WHO BARELY GET IN OFF THE WAIT LIST, VERSUS KIDS WHO DON'T, SO, LOOK AT A SET OF WAIT LISTED APPLICANTS, THEY'RE VERY CLOSE TO THE MARGIN OF GETTING IN, BUT IT TURNS OUT BY CHANCE, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE HAPPENS TO PLACE THE RIGHT MUSICAL INSTRUMENT THAT'S NEEDED TO FILL A COLLEGE ORCHESTRA IN A GIVEN YEAR, AND THEY GET IN, AND SOMEBODY ELSE, YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T PLAY THAT INSTRUMENT, YOU ENDED UP NOT GETTING IN.

SO, THIS GIVES US KIND OF AN EXPERIMENT, WHERE WE CAN NOW COMPARE OUR OUTCOMES, LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS OVER TIME, AND WE SEE THAT IF YOU GOT LUCKY AND GOT IN, YOU HAVE TREMENDOUSLY BETTER OUTCOMES, IN PARTICULAR, TREMENDOUSLY BETTER CHANCES OF REACHING THE TOP OF SOCIETY DEFINED IN VARIOUS WAYS, HAVING EARNINGS IN THE TOP 1%, GOING TO A TOP GRADUATE SCHOOL, WORKING AT A VERY PRESTIGIOUS FIRM THAT IS OFTEN A PATHWAY TO POSITIONS OF INFLUENCE LIKE WE STARTED OUT TALKING ABOUT.

AND SO, I THINK THAT, THE MAGNITUDE OF THAT, YOU KNOW, DOUBLING YOUR OLDS OF GETTING INTO THESE POSITIONS REALLY SURPRISED US.

>> SO, WHAT SHOULD THEY DO?

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE TOP 12 SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO LOOK AT YOUR REPORT AND SAY, WELL, THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING WHAT WE THOUGHT, WHICH IS THAT WE PRODUCE PHENOMENAL OUTCOMES, AND OUR ALUMNI GO ONTO GREAT THINGS.

BUT YOU KNOW, HARVARD'S GOING TO SAY, LEGACIES ARE JUST ONE PART OF THIS AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU PLAY THE TUBA OR NOT IS JUST ONE PART OF THIS, WE LOOK AT THE WHOLISTIC STUDENT, SO, WHAT IS YOUR SUGGESTION ON WHAT COULD IMPROVE, I GUESS, SOCIETY AND GIVE PEOPLE BETTER OPPORTUNITIES?

HOW SHOULD THEY THINK ABOUT THEIR ADMISSIONS POLICIES?

>> WE CONSIDER TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF APPROACHES.

ONE IS TO DIRECTLY ADDRESS THE THREE FACTORS THAT EXPLAIN THE HIGH INCOME ADMISSIONS ADVANTAGE.

SO, TAKE A LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, ENDING LEGACY ADMISSIONS, PUTTING LESS WEIGHT ON THESE NONACADEMIC FACTORS, THAT BASICALLY SEEM TO FAVOR HIGH INCOME STUDENTS BUT DON'T PREDICT FUTURE SUCCESS, SAND AND RECRUIT ATHLETES DIFFERENTLY.

IF YOU LOOK AT STATE FLAGSHIP PUBLIC COLLEGES, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN FOR EXAMPLE, HARI, THERE, YOU FIND A VERY DIFFERENT PATTERN, WHERE THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE IN ADMISSIONS RATES CONDITIONAL ON S.A.T.

SCORES BY PARENTAL INCOME.

AND WHAT ARE THOSE COLLEGES DOING DIFFERENTLY?

THEY DON'T HAVE LEGACY ON THE NONACADEMIC FACTORS, AND THEY RECRUIT ATHLETES ACROSS THE INCOME DISTRIBUTION.

THEY DON'T HAVE SPORTS TEAMS THAT TILT TOWARDS VERY HIGH INCOME FAMILIES.

IF WE MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION, WE ESTIMATE THAT WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OF LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME STUDENTS AT THESE COLLEGES AT 10%.

JUST TO PUT THAT NUMBER IN CONTEXT, IN THE CONTEXT OF CURRENT DISCUSSIONS IN OTHER DOMAINS, OTHER STUDIES HAVE MAES ITTED THAT ENDING RACE-BASED AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, IF IT DIDN'T RESULT IN ANY OTHER CHANGES IN ADMISSIONS PRACTICES AT THESE COLLEGES, WOULD REDUCE THE NUMBER OF BLACK AND HISPANIC STUDENTS BY ABOUT 10% ON THESE COLLEGES.

SO, THAT'S JUST TO SAY, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF MAGNITUDES, THE ISSUES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE ARE OF COMPARABLE MAGNITUDE, HERE FOCUSED ON THE CLASS DIMENSION, THERE FOCUSED ON THE RACE DIMENSION.

LET ME MAKE ONE FINAL POINT HERE, SO, SOMETIMES COLLEGES WILL SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, SITTING THERE IN YOUR OFFICE, LIKE, THEORETICALLY, THAT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD IDEA, WE HAVE TO HAVE A SPORTS TEAM, WE CARE ABOUT ALUMNI RELATIONS.

I CAN UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, IT'S A COMPLICATED DECISION, THERE ARE MANY FACTORS GOING INTO PLAY.

ANOTHER WAY YOU CAN LOOK AT IT IS, WHAT IF WE PROVIDED A LITTLE BIT OF SUPPORT IN THE ADMISSIONS PROCESS, A LITTLE BIT OF A PREFERENCE FOR THE KID WHO GOT A 1500 ON THE S.A.T.

COMING FROM A LOW INCOME FAMILY.

JUST LIKE WE GIVE A PREFERENCE FOR LEGACY STUDENTS OR KIDS FROM HIGH INCOME FAMILIES, EFFECTIVELY, WHAT IF WE GIVE A PREFERENCE FOR THOSE KINDS OF KIDS?

HIGH ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT KIDS FROM LOW INCOME FAMILIES.

WE PROVIDED SOME SUPPORT THERE, THAT COULD ALSO HAVE A VERY SIMILAR, I THINK, POSITIVE EFFECT IN THE LONG RUN.

>> IF YOU HAD A MAGIC WAND AND YOU COULD TELL THE PRESIDENT OF THESE 12 COLLEGES ONE THING THAT THEY CAN DO, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THAT THEY OUGHT TO DO, AND WHY IT WOULD BE IN THEIR BEST INTEREST?

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, THE SYSTEM THAT THEY'RE IN, WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT, GIVES THEM THE PRESTIGE OF BEING SUPER EXCLUSIVE, WHETHER THAT'S RIGHT OR WRONG, AND IT ALSO SAYS, OUR ALUMNI GO ON TO DO GREAT THINGS.

SO, HOW DO YOU KIND OF THINK OF THAT ECONOMICALLY AND SAY TO THIS PRESIDENT, HERE'S A REASON WHY IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR YOU TO DO WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT TO CHANGE YOUR ADMISSIONS POLICIES?

>> YEAH, SO, HARI, I'VE BEEN SPEAKING WITH MANY COLLEGE PRESIDENTS AND LEADERS OF COLLEGES IN THE CONTEXT OF DOING THIS WORK, AND THE FIRST THING I WOULD NOTE IS, I THINK MANY PEOPLE HAVE A SINCERE INTENTION OF TRYING TO MAXIMIZE THE SOCIAL IMPACT OF THESE KINDS OF INSTITUTIONS.

THEY RECOGNIZE THEY HAVE A SOCIAL PURPOSE.

I THINK THAT'S MANIFESTED IN THE FACT THAT MANY COLLEGES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT RACIAL DIVERSITY, RIGHT?

SO, THERE IS AN INTEREST IN DIVERSITY, I THINK THIS IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT DIMENSION OF DIVERSITY THAT PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN.

NOW, I WOULD SAY, CONCRETELY, THERE ARE THINGS ONE CAN DO IN ADMISSIONS THAT WILL GENUINELY MAKE A DIFFERENCE, WE SEE THAT VERY CLEARLY IN THE DATA NOW.

DO THEY COME AT A COST, YOU KNOW, THAT'S HARDER TO SAY.

ARE THEY GOING TO AFFECT DONATIONS AND FUND-RAISING AND OTHER ASPECTS OF CAMPUS LIFE THAT UNIVERSITIES HAVE TO CONSIDER?

WE DON'T DIRECTLY SPEAK TO THAT IN THIS STUDY.

WHAT I WILL NOTE, THOEP, IT'S NOT TOTALLY OBVIOUS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A BIG COST THERE.

YOU COULD IMAGINE, FOR INSTANCE, A SCENARIO WHERE CHILD FROM A LOWER INCOME FAMILY WHO GETS INTO ONE OF THESE COLLEGES AND GOES ON TO BECOME EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL, MAY ACTUALLY FEEL MORE COMPELLED TO DONATE BACK AND SUPPORT THE INSTITUTION, BECAUSE THEY GENUINELY FEEL THAT IT MADE A DIFFERENCE, AS OPPOSED TO SOMEONE FROM A HIGH INCOME FAMILY WHO KIND OF FELT LIKE THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE IT ANYWAY, THIS WAS KIND OF A -- A PLACE TO STOP, YOU KNOW, KIND OF ALONG THAT PATHWAY.

SO, I THINK IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THEY'RE TRADEOFFS, AND WE NEED TO EXPLORE THESE ISSUES MORE DIRECTLY.

>> RAJ CHETTY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, HARI.

>> AND IT IS AN INCREDIBLY ISSUE.

>>> DESPITE THE SWELTERING EUROPEAN HEAT, HUGE NUMBERS BRAVED THE TEMPERATURES TO VOTE IN SPAIN SNAP GENERAL ELECTION THIS WEEKEND.

SURPASSING THE 2019 TURNOUT, PROVING THE PUNDITS AND POLLSTERS WRONG.

SPAIN DID NOT LURCH ALL THE WAY TO THE EXTREME RIGHT.

THE CENTER-RIGHT PEOPLE'S PARTY TOOK THE MOST SEATS, BUT IT WASN'T QUITE ENOUGH TO FORM A GOVERNMENT.

AND THE FAR-RIGHT BOX PARTY LOST ALMOST 20 SEATS.

THE RULING SOCIALIST PARTY ACTUALLY DID A LITTLE BETTER THAN EXPECTED.

BUT AS YET, THERE'S NO CLEAR WINNER.

JOURNALIST AL GOODMAN HAS THE DETAILS.

>> THE STILL SOCIALIST PRIME MINISTER SAID TODAY HE THINKS THERE WILL BE SOME SORT OF GOVERNING DEAL.

HE DOESN'T THINK THERE WILL BE ANOTHER SET OF ELECTIONS.

SPAIN HAS BEEN PLAGUED BY THOSE.

THE COALITION BUILDING, HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE?

ONE RESULT SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR FROM THIS ELECTION, THE SPAN YARDS VOTED NOT TO ALLOW THE FAR-RIGHT PARTY INTO THE GOVERNMENT.

THE MAIN CONSERVATIVE PARTY DIDN'T GET ENOUGH SEATS FOR THE MAJORITY, AND EVEN WITH THE ADDED SEATS OF THE FAR-RIGHT PARTY, WHICH USED TO BE PART OF THE MAIN CONSERVATIVE PARTY, THEY DIDN'T GET TO THE MAJORITY.

THE FAR RIGHT HAS BEEN ADVANCING ACROSS EUROPE, IT IS GOVERNING IN ITALY WITH HARD-RIGHT PRIME MINISTER, IT'S IN THE GOVERNMENT IN FINLAND, BUT THE SPANIARDS ON SUNDAY SEEM TO BE SAYING, NOT HERE, NOT NOW.

THE COALITION BUILDING, ACCORDING TO ANALYSTS, COULD BE EASIER FOR THE SOCIALIST PRIME MINISTER, BECAUSE HE'S ALREADY GOT ONE ON THE LEFT.

HE'S GOT THE EXPERIENCE AND THE CONTEXT.

BUT A SENIOR SOCIALIST PARTY OFFICIAL TOLD CNN THIS DAY THAT THIS TIME FOR SANCHEZ, THIS SECOND ATTEMPT AT A COALITION, COULD BE A LOT TOUGHER FOR HIM, BECAUSE THE NATIONALIST PARTIES IN THE AREA AROUND BARCELONA AND THE NORTHERN BASK REGION COULD TRY TO EXTRAEKT A MUCH HIGHER PRICE THIS TIME.

ONE OF THE NATIONALIST PARTY LEADERS SAID ON SUNDAY, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE SANCHEZ PRIME MINISTER AGAIN, IF IT COMES TO THAT, WITH NOTHING IN EXCHANGE.

SHE SAID THEY ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT GOVERNING THE STATE OF SPAIN.

>>> SO, FINALLY TONIGHT, THE WILDFIRES RAGING AROUND THE WORLD ARE DEMONSTRATING SOLIDARITY.

THE SOUTH AFRICAN FIRE FIGHTERS SING AND DANCE AROUND THE GLOBE TO CANADA TO HELP DOUSE THE FLAMES THAT ARE CONSUMING RECORD AMOUNTS OF WILDERNESS THERE.

ABOUT A QUARTER OF THESE FIREFIGHTERS ARE WOMEN.

MEANWHILE, THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT HAS SENT FIRE FIGHTING PLANES TO HELP THEIRED A VERVE TEAR GREECE UNTIL ITS TIME OF NEED.

CROATIA AND EGYPT ARE ALSO ASSISTING.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.

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