>> Reilly: I'M ADM REILLY, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE, AND TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," AFTER NEO-NAZIS DEMONSTRATED IN BOSTON YET AGAIN OVER THE WEEKEND, PROSECUTORS ARE VOWING TO CRACK DOWN ON THESE EXTREMIST GROUPS.

BUT WHAT CONSTITUTES AN EFFECTIVE RESPONSE?

AN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER AND LEADER WITH THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE JOIN ME ON THAT.

THEN LATER, WITH W.N.B.A.

STAR BRITTNEY GRINER STILL DETAINED IN RUSSIA, FIVE MONTHS AFTER HER ARREST, DOES SHE HAVE ANY HOPE OF BEING FREED?

AND WHAT DOES HER CASE SAY ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MALE AND FEMALE ATHLETES IN THE U.S. TODAY?

>> DROP THE CRIMINAL CHARGES NOW!

>> Reilly: DEMONSTRATORS RALLIED OUTSIDE THE WEST ROXBURY COURTHOUSE TODAY IN SUPPORT OF TWO PEOPLE WHO WERE ARRESTED OVER THE WEEKEND WHILE PROTESTING AGAINST A WHITE SUPREMACIST RALLY OUTSIDE A DRAG QUEEN STORY HOUR IN JAMAICA PLAIN.

THE STATE DID DROP CHARGES AGAINST THOSE TWO THIS MORNING.

BUT THEY ARE MOVING FORWARD WITH A CHARGE AGAINST THE THIRD PERSON WHO WAS ARRESTED SATURDAY, CHRIS HOOD, FOUNDER OF THE NEO-NAZI GROUP NSC-131.

THAT'S A GROUP HE FORMED BECAUSE PATRIOT FRONT, WHOSE MEMBERS MARCHED THROUGH DOWNTOWN BOSTON A FEW WEEKS BACK, WAS NOT QUITE AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH IN ITS FASCISM, BY HOOD'S ESTIMATION.

STATE PROSECUTORS ALSO ASKED A JUDGE TO ORDER HOOD TO STAY OUT OF SUFFOLK COUNTY, A REQUEST THE JUDGE DENIED TODAY, BUT AFTER THE TWO WHITE SUPREMACIST DEMONSTRATIONS THIS MONTH, PLUS AN NSC-131 PROTEST AT THE SAINT PATRICK'S DAY PARADE IN MARCH, AND A NEO-NAZI PROTEST AT BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL IN FEBRUARY, SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY KEVIN HAYDEN ANNOUNCED TODAY THAT HE'S ADDING TWO ADDITIONAL HATE CRIMES PROSECUTORS TO HIS TEAM, SAYING, "IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT MASSACHUSETTS AND BOSTON HAVE BECOME TARGET DESTINATIONS FOR GROUPS THAT SPREAD HATE."

U.S. ATTORNEY FOR MASSACHUSETTS RACHAEL ROLLINS ALSO RELEASED A STATEMENT YESTERDAY, SAYING IN PART, "WE NEED TO EXPOSE THESE COWARDS," AND TO THAT END, ROLLINS SAID SHE'S CREATING A DEDICATED HOTLINE OVER THE COMING WEEKS FOR PEOPLE TO CALL WITH INFORMATION ABOUT WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS IN THE REGION.

I'M JOINED BY GBH NEWS SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER PHILLIP MARTIN, WHO'S BEEN REPORTING ON THE GROWTH OF WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS NATIONALLY, AND HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, FOR THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS.

WE'RE ALSO JOINED BY ROBERT TRESTAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE'S BOSTON OFFICE.

GOODS GOOD TO SIGH BOTH, THANK YOU TOR BECOME HERE, PHILLIP, YOU CAN START OFF BY TELLING ME AND VIEWERS A LITTLE MORE ABOUT WHY CHRIS HOOD LEFT PATRIOT FRONT TO SET UP NSC-131, WAS IT A DIFFERENCE IN WHAT THOSE GROUPS HOPED TO ACHIEVE OR IS IT A DIFFERENCE IN TACTICS, MAYBE A COMBINATION OF BOTH OF THOSE THINGS.

>> WELL, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT-- CHRISHOOD HOOD IS SOMEONE WHO CRAVES ATTENTION, SO DOES HIS ORGANIZATION.

THE PATRIOT FRONT ALSO CRAVES ATTENTION.

HIS ORGANIZATION CHRIS HOOD NSC-131, IT IS SAID THAT HE WAS KICKED OUT OF THE PATRIOT FRONT, THAT HE ALSO HAD PROBLEMS WITH ANOTHER GROUP THAT HE HAD BELONGED TO CALLED THE BASE.

NOW A LOT OF THIS IS NOT PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT ON A MICROLEVEL.

BUT IT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT THESE GROUPS, ALTHOUGH THEY SHARE THE COMMON WHITE SUPREMACIST VIEWS AND VIEW POINTS, THAT THEY MAKE, THEIR TACTICS DIFFER SOME WHAT.

THE PATRIOT FRONT ATTEMPTS TO PROJECT A MEGSAGE THAT MIGHTS BE MORE ACCEPTING TO MAINSTREAM, IF YOU WILL, CONSERVATIVE, AND EVEN FAR RIGHT INDIVIDUALS WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT RECLAIMING AMERICA AS OPPOSED TO SAYING EXPLICITLY WE WANT TO CREATE A WHITETTE NO STATE WHICH IS THEIR GOAL.

THE CHRIS HOOD AND THE NEO-NAZI GROUP THAT HE HELPED FORM, NSC-131, THEY ARE EXPOLICE KNIT THEIR PASSION, THAT IS PERHAPS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO GROUPS.

AND THAT ON ONE LEVEL THEY COMPETE FOR ATTENTION AS ROBERT CAN EXPLAIN FURTHER, ON THE OTHER INSTANCE, THEY SOMETIMES COLLUDE ON MATTERS SUCH AS THE CONCEPT OF WHITE LIVES MATTER.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU FOR THAT PRIME EAR-- PRIMER, AS YOU SAY, WE DON'T WANT TO GET TOO DAR IN THE WEEDS BUT BY WAY YOU WHY HIGHLIGHT THOSE COMMON ALLITIES THAT YOU TOUCHED ON.

ONE MORE QUESTION FOR YOU BEFORE WE GO TO ROBERT.

AFTER CHARLES MOREREL WAS ATTACKED EARLIER THIS MONTH THE CITY OF BOSTON WAS SHARPLY CRITICIZED FOR NOT BEING READY TO SPOPPED TO THAT ATTACK AND NOT DOS ENOUGH.

HE SAYS HE WAS ASSAULTED BY MEMBERS OF PATRIOT FRONT, AND FOR NOT BEING READY TO RESPOND TO THE MARCH THAT BROUGHT THEM TO COPLEY SQUARE.

I WANT TO READ A BIT FROM THE REVEREND KEVIN PETERSON FROM THE NEW DEMOCRACY COALITION, HE SAID IT'S MIND BOGGLING TO ME THIS GROUP OF A HUNDRED CHILDREN OF THE KKK WERE ALLOWED TO MARCH ACROSS THE SPAN OF THE CITY'S MARKET AND TO THIS AREA, WITHOUT APPROPRIATE POLICE PRESENCE OR SURVEILLANCE.

OVER THE WEEKEND WHEN NSC-131 SHOWED UP AT THE DRAG QUEEN STORY HOUR, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE BPD WAS ON HAND AND READY TO MONITOR WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND RESPOND TO IT.

DOES THAT INDICATE A SHIFT IN HOW SERIOUSLY THE CITY OF BOSTON IS TAKING THIS ACTIVITY?

>> PERHAPS.

I THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN A DEGREE OF SERIOUSNESS FROM SOME LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS, EVEN BEFORE THIS.

WHEN I SAY SOME, I'M NOT SAYING ALL, I THINK USSMENTS.

IS ATTORNEY RACHEL-- RACHAEL ROLLINS HAISES BEEN VERY SERIOUS ABOUT THIS AND TRYING TO FORMULATE HOW TO RESPOND.

THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF MAYOR WU TRYING TO FORMULATE HOW TO RESPOND.

I THINK THEY WERE CERTIFICATE YEWS-- SERIOUSLY TAKEN BY SURPRISE BY THE PATRIOT FRONT MARCH, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN READY BECAUSE THESE ACTIVITIES HAD BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME.

WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO A TIME WHEN THERE WAS-- PEOPLE HAVE TO GET A GLIMPSE OF COMPUTERS THAT THE STATE POLICE HEADQUARTERS DURING THE MARCH BY BLACK LIVES MATTER AND ANTIFA MEMBERS.

AND WE SAW ON THOSE DESKS WITH COMPUTERS THAT THEY WERE MONITORING ANTIFA.

SO YOU HAVE TONED TO WONDER IF THEY ARE PAYING THE SAME AMOUNT OF ATTENTION TO THE PATRIOT FRONT, NSC-131, AS THEY HAVE BEEN TO ANTIFASCISTS WHO HAVE BEEN-- .

>> Reilly: THAT IS A QUESTION THAT I HAVE BEEN ASKING MYSELF.

ROBERT, I WANT TO GET-- HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS AND THE BROADER NATIONAL CONTEXT, THE ABL SAID I BELIEVE IT WAS EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT IN THE PREVIOUS CALENDER YEAR MASSACHUSETTS WAS THE FOURTH MOST ACTIVE STATE WHEN IT COMES TO THE DISSEMINATION OF WHITE SUPREMACIST PROPAGANDA.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE CASE, WHY HAVE WE BECOME SOMETHING OF A HOT SPOT FOR THIS?

>> SOME OF THE THAT IS ACTUALLY IN WHAT PHILLIP WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT, AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NSC AND PATRIOTISM, NSC THEIR FOCUS IS NEW ENGLAND.

THEY WERE FOUNDED IN WORCESTER.

AND SO WHERE PATRIOT FRONT MAY HAVE A NATIONAL FOOTPRINT, NSC IS EXCLUSIVELY FOCUSED ON THE NEW ENGLAND SPACE INCLUDING MASSACHUSETTS.

WHEN WE ACTUALLY DRILLED DOWN, WE SEE THAT PROBABLY UPWARDS OF AROUND 80 PERCENT OF THE DISSEMINATION OF WHITE SUPREMACIST CONTENTS WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY IS REALLY ONLY A COUPLE OF GROUPS THAT ARE DOMINATING IT.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THOSE-- THIS IS ONE OF THOSE GROUPS.

SO I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO RECOGNIZE WHEREAS PATRIOT FRONT THEY TRAVELED FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY BASED IN TEXAS.

HAD THE PRESENCE IN OTHER STATES.

NSC IS HERE.

THEY LIVE AMONGST US.

AND THAT'S WHY THIS RESPONSE YOU ARE SEEING IS SO IMPORTANT.

>> YOU KNOW, I'M REALLY GLAD THAT YOU BROUGHT THAT TO THE FLOOR BECAUSE IN SOME OF THE COMMENTARY I HAVE SEEN, PEOPLE SEEM TO SUGGEST THAT THIS IS MORE A CASE OF OUTSIDERS COMING HERE BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT BOSTON AND MASSACHUSETTS IS OVERLY INCLUSIVE, OR OVERLY WELCOMING, AND THEY SEE IT AS A TARGET FOR THAT REASON.

SO BEING REMINDED THAT IT IS NOT JUST PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IN THE STATE, WHO HAVE THE POLICE STRKS REALLY IMPORTANT.

ROBERT WE MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING THAT THE SUFFOLK DA, KEVIN HAYDEN, DOUBLING THE NUMBER OF PROSECUTORS HE HAS WORKING ON SOME CASES, U.S. ATTORNEY ROLLINS WILL BE ROLLING OUT A HOTLINE FOR ACTIVITY LIKE THIS.

ARE THERE STEPS THAT THEY OR OTHER PEOPLE IN POWER COULD BE TAKING RIGHT NOW TO RESPOND TO THIS YUP TICK THAT ARE NOT BEING TAKEN THAT YOU THINK ARE IMPORTANT?

>> WELL, I THINK THE STEPS THAT YOU MENTIONED ARE STLEUTLY CRITICAL.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE KNOW IS THESE GROUPS FREQUENTLY CHANGE THEIR TACTIC, SO WHERE IS AS ONE POINT YOU MAY KNOW THAT THEY ARE COMING IN ADVANCE AND BPD MAY SLAM THE ROOTS AND HAVE A LOT OF COMMUNICATION, THEY ARE USING THIS SORT OF BLACK PROTEST RIGHT NOW.

SO I THINK IT IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT, THEY NEED TO HAVE TACTICS AND BE PREPARED, WHERE THEY MAY SHOW UP WITHOUT NOTICE.

AND SO THEY NEED TO MAKE THOSE SAME ADAPTATIONS.

NOW IT IS NOT NECESSARILY ALL ABOUT FREE SPEECH.

BECAUSE WE DO KNOW THAT THESE GROUPS, THEY DO THEIR OWN COMBAT TRAINING.

IF IT IS ABOUT FREE SPEECH WHY WERE THEY DOING COMBAT TRAINING IN WAKEFIELD LAST MONTH?

SO WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT OUR TACTICS ARE KEEPING UP WITH THEM.

AND WE THEED TO LOSE THE LAW TO THE MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE OF, YOU KNOW, FOR THE COMMUNITY.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING HAPPEN RIGHT NOW.

>> SO IF I WANT TO GO BACKS TO ENCOUNTER THAT CHARLES MORELL, THE HAVE WITH PATRIOT FRONT AND COPLEY SQUARE, HE SAYS HE WAS ASSAULTED BY THEM, THE PHOTOS THAT I HAVE SEEN CERTAINLY SEEM TO BEAR THAT OUT.

IS ANYONE GOING TO BE CHARGED IN CONNECTION WITH THAT KAITION?

DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> WE DO KNOW THAT THE BOSTON POLICE ARE LOOKING THROUGH THE PHOTO TO SEE, TO BASICALLY TRY TO DETERMINE IF SOMEONE CAN BE-- IF SOMEONE CAN BE CHARGED.

>> THAT IS THE BOSTON REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER WE SHOULD MENTION, SORTED OF A CONSORTIUM OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> CORRECT.

>> AND THE FBI IS ALSO LOOKING THROUGH THOSE PHOTOS, TRYING TO DETERMINE IF SOMEONE CAN BE CHARGED.

NOW ONE PROBLEM WITH THE INTERPRETATION OF-- ACTUALLY TWO PROBLEMS ONE IS THERE WERE DEFINITELY POLICE PRESENCE, CONTRARY TO A STATEMENT MADE EARLIER.

I'VE GONE BACK AND LOOKED AT THE VIDEO AND PHOTOS.

AND THERE WERE POLICE IN THE AREA.

PERHAPS NOT RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT WHERE MORELL WAS ALLEGEDLY ASSAULTED BUT THEY WERE DEFINITELY THERE.

AND THO THAT'S ONE ISSUE.

THE OTHER ISSUE, ADAM, IS THAT THE SITUATION WAS A LITTLE MORE NUANCED THAN WE IMAGINED.

WITHOUT QUESTION THIS MAN WAS ASSAULTED BUT HE WAS BASICALLY SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THESE INDIVIDUALS, FEELING AFFRONTED BY THEIR PRESENCE IN THIS TOWN, MARCHING DOWN THE STREET WITHOUT ANY TYPE OF OPPOSITION OR VISIBLE MONITORING, IN HIS VIEW AND MANY OTHERS' VIEW BY POLICE.

100 INDIVIDUALS WITH SHIELDS, HEAVY SHIELDS WHICH CAN BE USED AS WEAPONS MARCHING DOWN THE STREET.

AND CHARLES MORELL DEFINITELY CONFRONTED THEM.

>> Reilly: SO WHEN YOU SAY IT WAS NUANCED BUT ALSO SAY HE WAS DEFINITELYING A SAWLGT, THE ONE IMAGE THERE IS ONE HE ASSUMED IN A CHRIST TYPE POSE BUT ANOTHER WHERE HE IS BEING-- HIS-- YOU HAVE LOOKED AT THE PHOTOS, YOU HAVE SIZED UP WHAT HAPPENED.

DOES IT SEEM TO YOU THAT ASSAULT CHARGES WOULD BE APPROPRIATE?

>> I THINK SO.

I THINK SO.

ASSAULT CHARGES WITHOUT QUESTION ARE APPROPRIATE.

THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

WHAT I WAS REFERENCING.

>> GO ON, ROBERT.

>> Reilly: HOP IN ROBERT.

>> KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT, THE CIVIL RIGHT TO WALK DOWN THE STREET WITHOUT SOMEONE BLOCKING OUR WAY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF OUR SKIN OR ANY OTHER CHARACTERISTIC.

SO IT IS AN ASSAULT BUT I, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY THAT THERE MAY BE SOME CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ASSAULT AS WELL.

>> Reilly: OKAY.

THAT'S A FACTOR I HADN'T THOUGHT OF THAT COULD BE INVOLVED IN MAKING THE POTENTIAL PROSECUTION MORE COMPLICATED.

I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH ABOUT THE NSC-131 DISRUPTION OF THE DRAG QUEEN STORY THEY WENT AFTER A DRAG QUEEN STORY HOUR, THAT IS THE SAME THING THAT RAY LaCAMPBELL WHO IS GOING TO BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR SECRETARY OF STATE DID IN THE TOWN OF HOLBROOK EARLIER THIS YEAR AT THE PUBLIC LIBRARY.

LESS' LOOK AT THE VIDEO SHE FILMED.

>> WE WOULD LOVE FOR THIS TO END!

WE WOULD LOVE FOR THIS TO END, OUR TAXPAYER-- --OH, I'M BIGOTED AND EVIL ABOUT THE BOOKS WITH CHILD PORNOGRAPHY THAT EXISTS IN THIS LIBRARY?

>> SHOW ME THE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY!

SHOW ME!

>> WHY DON'T YOU READ "GENDER QUEER?"

I'VE ALREADY BEEN TELLING EVERYBODY ABOUT IT.

OR HOW BOUT LET'S TALK ABOUT IT?

NO!

LET'S!

(CROSSTALK) I'M PROTECTING CHILDREN!

I'M PROTECTING CHILDREN!

I'M PROTECTING-- HAS THIS PERSON BEEN CORI-CHECKED?

HAS THIS PERSON BEEN CORI-CHECKED?

>> Reilly: SHE IS ASKING IN THE DRAG QUEEN WHO IS PERFORMING OR CONDUCTING STORY HOUR HAS HAD A CRIMINAL RECORD CHECK DONE.

VERY SIMILAR TO NSC-131.

WE'RE PROTECTING CHILDREN, A SEXUAL THREAT, I WOULD LIKE TO GET YOUR TAKE, IS CALLING GROUPS LIKE THIS EXTREMISTS MINIMIZE THE EXTENT TO WHICH THEIR WORLDVIEW HAS GONE MAINSTREAM.

ROBERT, WHY DON'T YOU START Y DON'T YOU START AND.

>> I THINK THERE'S SOME DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE CLIP YOU JUST SHOWED AND A GROUP THAT IS DOING COME BAT TRAINS AND SORT OF ESPOUSE WHITE SUPREMACY AND EVERY WEEK THEY SEEM TO BE TARGETING A DIFFERENT GROUP.

LOOK, EVERYBODY'S GOT A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION.

AND THEIR FREE SPEECH RIGHT.

WHEN YOU START TO CROSS THE LINE AND INTERFERE WITH OTHERS, IT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

>> Reilly: WELL, I HEAR YOU ABOUT THE DIRCHTIONS BUT THERE IS ALSO A REALLY IMPORTANT COMMONALITY AND NSC-1341 AND RAY LaCAMPBELL IN THE TWO CASES BOTH WENT AFTER DRAG QUEEN STORY HOURS UNDER THE PRETEXT OF PROTECTING CHILDREN FROM NONEXISTING SEXUAL HARM.

AND THAT STRIKES ME AS A REALLY SIGNIFICANT AFFINITY.

SO MUCH, DO YOU THINK THAT LABELING GROUPS EXTREMIST, FOCUSING ON THE TOUGH THAT-- STUFF THAT SETS THEM APART, FOR EXAMPLE THE COMBAT TRAINING UNDERSELLS THE EXTENT TO WHICH A LOT OF, FOR EXAMPLE, REPUBLICANS HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS MIGHT APPRECATE THEIR RHETORIC ON THE ISSUE.

>> I WOULD SAY REPUBLICANS IN MASSACHUSETTS AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THAT WE SHOULD BE TOTALLY AWARE OF, AND WE SHOULD-- CUZ YOU CAN SEE IT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ABOUT THE TEXAS REPUBLICAN PARTY, FOR EXAMPLE, IS CARRYING OUT A MAINSTREAM CAMPAIGN, IF YOU WILL, AGAINST LGBTQ RIGHTS INCLUDING OF TRANSPEOPLE, AND THE SAME THING IS TRUE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

WHERE THERE IS A SIM BIOTIC RELATIONSHIP.

THEY MAY NOT AGREE ON TACTICS, NSC131 AND SOME RIGHT WING POLITICIANS BUT THEY HAVE BASICALLY GLOMMED ON TO THE SAME ISSUE IN ORDER TO TRY TO AMPLIFY THEIR MESSAGE.

AND ST A MESSAGE OF HATE.

IT IS A MESSAGE THAT IS DIRECTED AT LGBTQ COMMUNITIES, AT COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

THEY HAVE GLOMMED ON TO VARIOUS ISSUES, LGBTQ ISSUES FOR ONE, CRITICAL RACE THEORY, OR WHAT THEY CALL CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS ANOTHER, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT YOU SEE THIS HAPPENING, THAT AMPLIFICATION HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> I WANT TO ASK ROBERT THE CLOSING QUESTION, AND I THINK IT'S A BIG ONE, ROBERT, WE SAW IN JAMAICA PLAIN PROTESTORS SHOW UP, COUNTERPROTESTORS SHOW UP TO CONFRONT NSC-131.

INITIAL REPORTS SUGGESTED THEY GOT INTO A CONFLICT WITH NSC131, APPARENTLY THE CHARGES AGAINST THEM HAVE BEEN DROPPED BUT WHAT SHOULD, WHAT COUNCIL WOULD YOU GIVE TO PEOPLE WHO MAY SEE GROUPS LIKE THIS, BEING ACTIVE IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE, BE APPALLED BY WHAT THEY ARE DOS AND WANT TO INDICATE THEIR DISAPPROVAL IN SOME HELPFUL WAY RATHER THAN IN A WAY THAT IS POTENTIALLY DAMAGING OR INCENDIARY, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST?

>> YOU KNOW, I WOULD CAUTION PEOPLE AGAINST CONFRONTING THEM.

THEY'RE OFTEN LOOKING FOR A CONFRONTATION AND THEIR TACTICS ARE DESIGNED TO PROVOKE CONFRONTATION.

SO I THINK A DIRECT PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION SHOULD BE DISCOURAGED.

BUT IN THE SAME WAY THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK PUBLICLY OF THEIR VIEWS, SO DOES THE COMMUNITIES AND SO DO THE INDIVIDUALS.

AND I THINK YOU KNOW, OUR VOICES ARE ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL TOOLS WE HAVE.

PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES AROUND HATE.

SO IT IS CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED PEOPLE TO USE THAT REALLY IMPORTANT TOOL THAT WE ALL HAVE.

>> ALL RIGHT, ROBERT TRESTAN, PHILLIP MARTIN, THANK YOU BOTH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S BEEN MORE THAN FIVE MONTHS SINCE W.N.B.A.

STAR BRITTNEY GRINER WAS FIRST DETAINED IN RUSSIA.

SHE'S CHARGED WITH CARRYING AN ILLEGAL SUBSTANCE INTO THE COUNTRY-- VAPE CARTRIDGES WITH TRACES OF CANNABIS OIL.

GRINER PLEADED GUILTY AT HER TRIAL EARLIER THIS MONTH, AND FACES UP TO 10 YEARS IN PRISON.

SHE AND HER SUPPORTERS HAVE PLEADED WITH THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TO FREE HER.

MOST RECENTLY, IN A HANDWRITTEN LETTER, GRINER SPOKE DIRECTLY TO PRESIDENT BIDEN, BEGGING HIM NOT TO FORGET ABOUT HER.

BUT WHILE ANY DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS HAVE BEEN KEPT UNDER WRAPS, IT'S CLEAR THAT, SO FAR, ANY U.S.

ATTEMPTS TO FREE HER HAVE BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL.

MEANWHILE, THE N.B.A., WHICH OWNS ABOUT HALF OF THE W.N.B.A., SAYS IT'S USING ITS INFLUENCE TO FREE GRINER.

BUT RECENTLY, OWNERS FROM ALL 30 N.B.A.

TEAMS DECLINED TO BE INTERVIEWED, OR WOULD NOT EVEN RESPOND TO THE "NEW YORK TIMES" ASKING ABOUT GRINER.

SO, IS HER ONGOING DETENTION A CASE STUDY IN THE LIMITS OF AMERICA'S POWER?

A LACK OF POLITICAL WILL?

OR, THE DIFFERENT VALUE MUCH OF SOCIETY ATTACHES TO MEN'S AND WOMEN'S SPORTS?

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS ARE SHIRA SPRINGER, JOURNALIST AND LECTURER AT THE M.I.T.

SLOAN SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT, WHERE SHE FOCUSES ON THE INTERSECTION OF SPORTS AND CULTURE.

AND PETER ROBY, FORMER ATHLETIC DIRECTOR FOR NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE, PETER, WHAT IS YOUR TAKER ON WHY FIVE MONTHS ON BRITTNEY GRINER STILL HASN'T BEEN RELEASED?

>> I THINK IT IS A PUTIN-- VLADIMIR PUTIN AND RUSSIA AND THEIR CULTURE AND THEIR DESIRE TO LEVERAGE THIS FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT TO EITHER GET THE RELEASE OF SOME CAPTIVE RUSSIAN PERSON IN THE U.S. OR TO SHOW EXTRACT SOME SORT OF REVENGE, IF YOU WILL, AGAINST THE U.S. AND ITS POLICIES TOWARDS RUSSIA AND IN REGARDS TO THE UKRAINE, THE WAR IN UKRAINE.

AND THE SENSELESS BOMBINGS AND KILLINGS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE THAT ARE HAPPENING AT THE HANDS OF THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT IN UKRAINE.

SO I THINK WE'RE NAIVE IF WE DON'T THINK THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN THE WAR IN UKRAINE, RUSSIA'S ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE U.S. MONK MANY THINGS GOING ON, BUT CERTAINLY WITH RESPECT TO HOW THE U.S. HAS RESPONDED TO THE WAR IN UKRAINE AND ITS EFFORTS TO RALLY NATO, AND EUROPE, TO FIGHT AGAINST WHAT IS GOING ON IN UKRAINE.

>> Reilly: DO YOU THINK IF IN FACT THEY DETAINED HER BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO SEND A MESSAGE, GIVEN ALL THOSE THINGS, DO YOU THINK THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE FACT THAT SHE IS A GAY BLACK WOMAN IN RUSSIA MADE HER FROM THE RUSSIAN STANDPOINT A APPEALING TARGET TBOR THIS SORT OF POLITICAL FLEXING?

>> IT'S HARD NO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE THINKING BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THEY ARE REALLY RATIONAL WHEN IF COMES TO THESE TYPES OF THINGS BUT THE FACT THAT SHE IS AS WELL-KNOWN A PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE AS SHE IS, A TWO TIME GOLD MEDAL OLYMPIAN, SEVEN TIME WNBA ALL-STAR.

YOU KNOW, SHE HAS GOT A HUGE PROFILE.

AND SO I THINK THAT HAS AS MUCH TO DO WITH IT AS THE FACT THAT SHE IS BLACK OR A LESBIAN.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS NECESSARILY WHAT IS DRIVING RUSSIA.

BUT IT IS HARD TO KNOW.

>> SHIRA WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF WHAT IS DRIVING THIS, DO YOU SHARE THE ANALYSIS THAT PETER JUST OFFERED, OR DO YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT TAKE.

>> NO, I SHARE PETER ANALYSIS 100 PERCENT.

SHE IS ABSOLUTELY, I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY OTHER WAY TO SAY IT.

SHE IS A POLITICAL BARGAINING CHIP.

AND THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE HERE.

AND SHE, THE TIMING OF WHEN SHE WAS ARRESTED AT THE AIRPORT WHICH WAS FEBRUARY 17th.

THIS WAS MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO, AS THINGS WERE RAMPING UP TOWARDS THE WAR IN UKRAINE.

THE FACT THAT PUTIN IS A HUGE SPORTS FAN AND HE SEES SPORTS AND SPORTS MIGHT AS A SYMBOL OF RUSSIA'S STRENGTH AND SORT OF STRIKE AT AMERICA'S SOURCE STRENGTH, ONE OF THE HIGHEST PROFILE FEMALE ATHLETES IN AMERICA, IS NO COINCIDENCE.

YOU KNOW, SHE WAS TAKEN PURPOSEFULLY, MANY PEOPLE SAY, YOU KNOW, FRAMED WITH THESE CHARGES.

SO 100%.

>> Reilly: WHEN YOU SAY THAT I AM THINKING OF THE SOCCI OLYMPICS AND THOSE RIDICULOUS HOCKEY GAMES WHERE PUTIN PLAYED AGAINST TEAM OF PROFESSIONALS AND SCORED SEVEN GOALS.

>> RIGHT.

THE FIRST TIME I SAW PUTIN WAS AT THE 2012 LONDON OLYMPICS WHERE HE WAS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, JUDO MATCHES, SAYING IT IS WHERE HE LIKES TO PLAY RUSSIAN STRENGTH.

>> Reilly: YOU MENTIONED HER BEING FRAMED.

ARE WE AT A POINT RIGHT NOW WHERE WE CAN SAY IF IN FACT SHE DID OR DID NOT BREAK RUSSIAN LAW, DO YOU THINK?

>> I DONE THINK WE ARE AT A POINT.

BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH SECRETARY RESEE AND SO MUCH OBJECTIFICATION OF WHAT GOES ON WITH RUSSIA AND THE RUSSIANS LEGAL SYSTEM.

AND I MAY HAVE SORT OF OVERSTEPPED IN SOME WAYS IN SAYING-- .

>> Reilly: NO, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK SHE PROBABLY WAS.

>> I THINK THAT IS WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING.

BECAUSE OF THE TIMING, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS A SMALL, YOU KNOW, A MINISCULE AMOUNT OF HASHISH OIL AND THEN THE DISPROPORTIONATE CHARGE OF SORT OF THIS INTENSE-- INTENT TO TRANSPORT AND DISTRIBUTE DRUG, SOMETHING THAT CARRIES FOR HER A TEN YEAR PENALTY.

IT ALL SEEMS A BIT NISHY AS DOES THE FACT THAT THIS WHOLE JUDICIAL PROCESS IS A BIT SKETCHY WITH HER DETENTION, HER PRETILE DETENTION RELETTEDLY BEINGS EXTENDED.

DENIED HOME DETENTION, ALL OF THAT DOESN'T PASS THE SMELL TEST, RIGHT.

>> Reilly: YEAH, YEAH.

PETER, GRINER'S WNBA COACH SAID IN A FAIRLY RECENT INTERVIEW THAT IF SHE WERE LEBRON JAMES SHE WOULD BE HOME BY NOW, THE KOASM WENT ON TO SAY THE STATEMENT ABOUT THE VALUE OF WOMEN.

THE STATEMENT ABOUT THE VALUE OF BLACK PENSIONER STATEMENT OF THE VALUE OF A GAY PERSON, ALL OF THOSE THINGS WE KNOW, SO THAT IS WHAT HURTS A LITTLE MORE.

ALL THAT RINGS TRUE TO ME.

AND YET WHEN I WAS GETTING READY TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, I HAD HADN'T KNOWN UNTIL TODAY ABOUT THIS NEW MURAL UNVEILED IN WASHINGTON D.C. THAT DEPICTS AT LEAST 18 AMERICANS WHO ARE CURRENTLY HELD OVERSEAS.

IN A TWEET BEGGED THE PRESIDENT BIDEN TO MEET WITH THEIR FAMILIES AND BRING THE 18 AMERICANS HOME.

I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT THE GRINER WAS THE ONLY FACE ON THAT MURAL THAT I RECOGNIZED.

IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT GRINER MAY BE SUFFERK ON THE ONE HAND FROM A LACK OF PRIVILEGE ADVICE A VEES MAIL ATHELETES AND HOW LEBRON JAMES MAY BE TREATED BUT AT THE SAME TIME SHE IS BENEFITING FROM A HIGHER VISIBILITY COMPARED TO ORDINARY PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAPPEN TO BE SPORTS STARS?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT IS TRUE.

IT APPEARS TO BE THAT WAY.

BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, YOU DIDN'T RECOGNIZE NIBBLES ON THAT MURAL.

AND WE HAVEN'T REALLY READ VERY MUCH ABOUT THE OTHER FOLKS BEING HELD AGAINST THEIR WILL IN RUSSIA.

AND SO YOU KNOW, THIS IS I THINK A FUNCTION OF THE POWER OF SPORTS THAT WE ALL ACKNOWLEDGE.

AND IT'S ABILITY TO RESONATE WITH SO MANY PEOPLE.

AND TO DOMINATE THE MEDIA AND TO GET PEOPLE'S ATTENTION.

FOR ME RUNNING THE STUDY FOR THE CENTER OF SPORTS SOCIETY FOR FIVE YEARS, I LIVED THAT EVERY DAY BECAUSE OF THE PLATFORM THAT SPORT HAD TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER, TO GET THEIR ATTENTION, AND TO BRING ABOUT SOCIAL CHANGE.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE CENTER.

SO I LIVED THAT MYSELF AND I KNOW THAT IT'S POWERFUL.

I DON'T THINK I AGREE WITH THE COACH THAT IF IT WAS LeBRON JAMES HE WOULD BE HOME BY NOW.

BECAUSE IF YOU TALK ABOUT A CHIP THAT THEY WOULD WANT TO LEVERAGE, THERE'S NO WAY THAT YOU WOULD EXPECTED THEM TO LET LeBRON GO MORE QUICKLY THAN BRITTNEY GRINER JUST BECAUSE OF HIS INTERNATIONAL PROFILE AND HOW, YOU KNOW, HE'S SO VISIBLE AS AN INTERNATIONAL STAR.

SO I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THE COACH BUT I EMPATHIZE WITH HER BECAUSE SHE'S CONCERNED ABOUT WANTING TO GET BRITTNEY GRINER HOME AND DOING WHATEVER SHE CAN ON HER BEHALF.

>> YEAH, SHIRRA LAST QUESTION TO YOU, ABOUT 45 SECONDS.

ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THE NBA'S SEEMING-- THEY MADE IT CLEAR THEY WOULD LIKE HER HOME BUT ARE NOT REALLY ROCKING THE BOAT.

>> I'M NOT SURPRISED.

I MEAN THIS IS SUCH A DELICATE SITUATION, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS SITUATION WHO DON'T WANT TO PUT A FOOT WRONG.

WE SAW THIS AT THE VERY, BEGINNING.

PEOPLE WHO WERE CLOSE TO BRITTNEY GRINER WERE TOLD NOT TO SAY ANYTHING, THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT THIS NEWS BEING MADE PUBLIC BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT HER TO BECOME A POLITICAL BARGAINING CHIP.

BUT IT DOESN'T SUR PLIES ME.

THERE ARE A LOT OF POLITICS AND POWER PLAYS INVOLVED.

HOWEVER THAT BEING SAID, AT THE RECENT ESPY AWARDS DID YOU SEE STEF CURRY SPEAKING UP AND THERE WAS A TRIBUTE MID WAY THROUGH THAT CEREMONY THAT RECOGNIZES BG AND DREW ATTENTION TO THE ISSUE.

DIFFERENT FORUM BUT I THINK THE NB A&W NBA PLAYERS ARE FINDING A WAY TO RAISE THEIR VOICES AND DRAW ATTENTION APART FROM OWNERS.

>> Reilly: I'M GLAD YOU POINTED OUT WHAT HAPPENED THERE.

AND ALSO THAT THERE MAY BE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES IF PEOPLE SAY SOMETHING REALLY LOUDLY, REALLY AGGRESSIVELY ABOUT THIS, THAT THEY MIGHT NOT WANT TO HAPPEN.

WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

SHIRA SPRINGER AND PETTER ROBBY, THANK YOU BOTH, APPRECIATE IT.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org