>> TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": I'M SUE O'CONNELL IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

SUFFOLK COUNTY D.A.

RACHAEL ROLLINS IS UP FOR A BIG PROMOTION, TAPPED BY PRESIDENT BIDEN TODAY FOR U.S. ATTORNEY FOR MASSACHUSETTS.

WHAT KIND OF CHANGE COULD SHE MAKE IN THE ROLE, AND WHAT ABOUT THE JOB SHE'D LEAVE BEHIND?

BERKSHIRE D.A.

ANDREA HARRINGTON AND THE ACLU OF MASSACHUSETTS, RAHSAAN HALL, JOINS ME.

PLUS, HOW THE MICROSCOPIC NUMBER OF BLACK AND LATINO BUSINESS OWNERS PARCELS BOSTON AND THE STATE'S INVESTMENT IN THEM.

THEN, LATER, LONGTIME "BOSTON GLOBE" FILM CRITIC, TY BURR, ON WHY HE'S LEAVING THE PAPER TO LAUNCH A NEWSLETTER.

♪♪ >> RACHAEL ROLLINS MADE HISTORY TWO YEARS AGO WHEN SHE WAS SWORN IN AS THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN ELECTED D.A.

IN SUFFOLK COUNTY, AND NOW SHE'S ON TRACK TO DO IT AGAIN AS JOE BIDEN'S NOMINEE FOR U.S. ATTORNEY FOR MASSACHUSETTS.

IF AND WHEN SHE'S CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE, SHE'LL BE THE FIRST EVER BLACK WOMAN IN THIS ROLE, TOO.

THE WHITE HOUSE ANNOUNCED HER NOMINATION, ALONG WITH MORE THAN HALF A DOZEN OTHERS, IN A STATEMENT TODAY, WRITING: THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE CHOSEN FOR THEIR DEVOTION TO ENFORCING THE LAW, THEIR PROFESSIONALISM, THEIR EXPERIENCE AND CREDENTIALS IN THIS FIELD, THEIR DEDICATION TO PURSUING EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL, AND THEIR COMMITMENT TO THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

IN 2018, ROLLINS RAN FOR D.A.

ON A PLATFORM OF CHANGE, INCLUDING CONTROVERSIAL DO-NOT-PROSECUTE LIST OF CERTAIN LOW-LEVEL CRIMES AND WAS ELECTED WITH 80% OF THE VOTE.

AS U.S. ATTORNEY, SHE'D BE ABLE TO BRING SOME OF THOSE PRIORITIES STATEWIDE.

THEN, OF COURSE, THERE'S THE MATTER OF THE SEAT SHE LEAVES BEHIND.

IT WOULD BE UP FOR GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER TO APPOINT AN INTERIM REPLACEMENT UNTIL THE D.A.

POSITION OPENS UP IN THE 2022 ELECTIONS.

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS ARE BERKSHIRE ACCOUNT D.A.

ANDREA HARRINGTON AND RAHSAAN HALL, THE DIRECTOR OF THE RACIAL JUSTICE PROGRAM AT THE ACLU OF MASSACHUSETTS, WHO ALSO MANAGES THE GROUP'S "WHAT A DIFFERENCE A D.A.

MAKES" CAMPAIGN.

>> O'Connell: WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> O'Connell: RA SOON, RAHSAAN, I WANT TO START WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME ABOUT WHAT A DIFFERENCE A D.A.

MAKES, AND WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE NEWS OF THIS NOTION?

>>NOTION -- NOMINATION?>> I GO BACK TO JANUARY 2018, WHEN I WAS WEARING THIS TIE, TALKING ABOUT WHAT A DIFFERENCE A D.A.

MAKES.

I'M NOT SURPRISED.

I EXPECTED IT.

I'M VERY HAPPY FOR RACHAEL ROLLINS, A DEAR FRIEND I'VE KNOWN SINCE LAW SCHOOL.

BUT THERE IS THIS HOLE IN MY HEART FOR THE RESIDENTS OF SUFFOLK COUNTY WHO ELECTED HER BY A MAJORITY, AND ALSO WHO HELD TO ACCOUNT ON THE PLATFORMS SHE RAN ON.

SO WE'RE VERY INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT WHO GOVERNOR BAKER IS GOING TO APPOINT IN THAT POSITION BEFORE THE NEXT ELECTION, AND ALSO LOOKING FORWARD TO WHAT RACHAEL ROLLINS WILL DO IN THIS POSITION.

>> O'Connell: D.A.

HARRINGTON, WHAT DOES A U.S. ATTORNEY DO?

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING A DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND BEING THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR MASSACHUSETTS?

>> THE U.S. ATTORNEY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ENFORCING FEDERAL LAWS.

SO AS THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, I ENFORCE THE STATE LAWS.

BUT U.S. ATTORNEY HAS, YOU KNOW, BIGGER PLATFORMS, FOR THE ENTIRE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS.

AND ALSO HAS A SEAT AT THE TABLE AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT TO ADVOCATE FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT, THEY HAVE A WHOLE CIVIL SIDE, CIVIL RIGHTS -- THEY ENFORCE CIVIL RIGHTS.

OUR U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HERE IN SPRINGFIELD DID AN INVESTIGATION OF THE SPRINGFIELD POLICE DEPARTMENT.

SO IT IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT ROLE, AND I THINK RACHAEL ROLLINS IS A WONDERFUL SELECTION FOR U.S. ATTORNEY.

>> O'Connell: RAHSAAN, HOW DOES THAT APPROACH THE WAY THAT DISTRICT ATTORNEY JAY ROLLINS WAS APPROACHING WHAT LEVEL OF CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED -- HOW DO YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO TRANSLATE IF SHE IS NOMINATED IN THE FALL, SHE HAS TO APPEAR BEFORE THE U.S. SENATE, AND HOW WILL THAT POINT OF VIEW AND THE VALUES TRANSLATE INTO THE POSITION OF U.S. ATTORNEY?

>> WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND IS IN THE JURISDICTION OF THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THERE ARE WHOLE SET OF CRIMES THAT SOME FOLKS IN COMMUNITIES -- PARTICULARLY COMMUNITIES OF COLOR -- HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE LEVEL OF PROSECUTION AND THE LACK OF INVESTIGATION IN PROSECUTION AND ACCOUNTABILITY INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, CORRECTION AGENCIES, CORPORATIONS THAT ARE ENGAGED IN STEPS AND ARE NOT TAKING CARE OF THEIR EMPLOYEES.

SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE AREAS THAT THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS JURISDICTION OVER.

SO THE SAME PERSPECTIVE OF VALUING THE LIFE, THE EXPERIENCE, THE VOICES OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST DIRECTLY IMPACTED AND MARGINALIZED BY THE STANDARD ANDSYSTEMS OF OPPRESSION IS THE EXPERIENCE AND PERSPECTIVE THAT WE LOOK FORWARD TO NOW D.A.

ROLLINS SOON TO BE, HOPEFULLY, U.S. ATTORNEY ROLLINS, THAT SHE BRINGS TO THE OFFICE.

>> O'Connell: D.A.

HARRINGTON, I'VE BEEN WATCHING A LOT ON TIKTOK, THESE VIDEOS OF PEOPLE RUNNING INTO STORES AND STEALING STUFF AND RUNNING OUT, AND PEOPLE THROWING UP THEIR HANDS AND SAYING, IT IS THE END OF TIMES, AND PEOPLE ARE STEALING STORES FOR CLOTHES, AND OBVIOUSLY IT IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR THE STORES OR THE EMPLOYEES.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, AS I WAS WATCHING WITH MY DAUGHTER, I SAID THAT IS PROBABLY A COUPLE OF THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF MERCHANDISE, BUT MEAN WHILE ON WALL STREET THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BEING ROBBED FROM CITIZENS, AND THAT DOESN'T GET THE COVERAGE OF SOMEBODY RUNNING IN AND STEALING CLOTHING.

I'M WONDERING AS WE LOOK AT THE EXCHANGE OF CITY ATTORNEYS THROWTDCITYATTORNEYS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, DO YOU FEEL WE'RE AT A A MOMENT WHERE WE'RE AT A TIPPING POINT, WHERE WE'RE SEEING THE CRIMES THAT HURT A LOT OF PEOPLE SERIOUSLY, VERSUS SOME CRIMES THAT ARE JUST SYMPTOMATIC OF THE CRISIS OR ECONOMIC CRISIS OR THE OPPORTUNITY THAT THE INDIVIDUALS ARE IN?

>> WELL, THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN, AS RAHSAAN STATED, OF THE LOSS OF THE SUFFOLK COUNTY'S OFFICE FROM RACHAEL ROLLINS BEING ELEVATED TO DISTRICT ATTORNEY.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A D.A.

MAKES IS PART OF A MOVEMENT.

SO WE'RE SEEING DISTRICT DISTRICT ATTORNEYS WITH RACHAEL ROLLINS' SIMILAR PLATFORM AND MY PLATFORM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY BECAUSE OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

PEOPLE WANT LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE COURT SYSTEM TO WORK FOR THEM, NOT JUST FOR THE POWERFUL.

I SEE THOSE VIDEOS OF PEOPLE RUNNING OUT OF THE STORES WITH LUXURY GOODS, AND, TO ME -- AND HERE IN MY OWN COMMUNITY, WITH WAL-MART, THEY BRING IN THEIR SHOPLIFTING COMPLAINTS EVERY WEEK.

THIS IS A MULTIBILLION COMPANY.

THEY CAN HANDLE THEIR OWN LOSS PREVENTION.

IT IS BUILT INTO THE COST OF THEIR GOODS.

IT SHOULD NOT BE ON POLICE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT TO PROTECT THEIR PROPERTY.

SO, YOU KNOW -- AND YOUR POINT IS WELL-TAKEN.

SO SOMEBODY LIKE RACHAEL ROLLINS IN THE ROLE OF U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS GOING TO LOOK THROUGH A LENS OF EQUITY, AND THEY'RE GOING TO PUT THE FOCUS ON WHERE IT SHOULD BE, WHICH IS ON THE CRIMES THAT HURT A LOT OF PEOPLE, REALLY BASED ON GREED AND JUST POVERTY AND A LACK OF OPPORTUNITY.

>> O'Connell: RAHSAAN, D.A.

ROLLINS HAS HAD A VERY TOUGH GO OF IT IN TERMS THAT SHE'S A WOMAN, A WOMAN OF COLOR, SHE IS A BLACK WOMAN, AND SHE IS COMING WITH A SET OF IDEALS THAT IS CHANGING THE SYSTEM, AND TURNING THE SYSTEM RIGHT SIDE, IF YOU WILL.

AND THERE WAS A CRITICISM OF SOUTH BAY, AND I OFTEN SAID SHE WASN'T THE FIRST TO PUT THE BLUES ON IN SOUTH BAY IN THE CHRISTMAS SEASON WHEN PARK SEGUNDO A PARKING IS A NIGHTMARE.

IS SHE GOING TO BE ABLE TO BRACE THROUGH WHAT WE EXPECT WILL BE MORE RACIST AND SEXIST SPOTLIGHT ON HER?

>> THE RESILIENCE AND FORTITUDE OF BLACK WOMEN THAT SOMETHING IN MY LIFE AND EXPERIENCE IS UNPARALLELED.

UNFORTUNATELY, IT IS A PERSISTENT REALITY, AND IT SHOULDN'T BE.

AND SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CONTINUE TO ENDURE THESE THINGS.

BUT WE'VE SEEN FROM WHAT SHE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO IN THE ROLE OF DISTRICT ATTORNEY THAT SHE CAN WITHSTAND IT.

I THINK THE GREATEST BENEFIT, THOUGH, IS THE SYMBOLISM OF HER IN THAT POSITION AND HOW SHE USES THAT PLATFORM TO REALLY SHIFT THE ROLE OF THE SYSTEM TO ONE IS FOCUSED ON OUR TRANSFORMATION AND HEALING AND NOT SO MUCH ON CONVICTION AND INCARCERATION.

>> O'Connell: D.A.

HARRINGTON, I'M WONDERING WHAT YOUR REACTION IS TO THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THIS.

I GREW UP AND THERE WEREN'T ANY, I DON'T THINK, FEMALE ATTORNEYS WHEN I WAS A KID.

THERE STILL ISN'T THAT MUCH REPRESENTATION IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND CERTAINLY FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR AND BLACK WOMEN, IT'S THE SAME.

YET AT THE SAME TIME, WE'RE SEEING THIS EMERGENCE OF PEOPLE STEPPING FORWARD AND GETTING BOTH APPOINTMENTS AND TO WIN ELECTIONS.

WHAT HAS YOUR EXPERIENCE BEEN LIKE?

>> WELL, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO BE A WOMAN IN THIS PARTICULAR POSITION.

AND MY -- PARTICULARLY WITH THE MEDIA.

AND WE SEE THAT AGAINST BLACK WOMEN, WOMEN DISTRICT ATTORNEYS, WOMEN IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE MEDIA NEED TO TAKE MORE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HOW THEY REPORT ON WOMEN LEADERS BECAUSE THEY REALLY SET A TONE, WHERE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY WHO, YOU KNOW, DON'T HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF SCRUPPLES THINK THEY CAN ATTACK WOMEN.

FOR A WOMAN LIKE RACHAEL ROLLINS TO GET TO HER POSITION, YOU HAVE TO BE EXCEPTIONAL IN EVERY WAY, AND SHE IS CERTAINLY EXCEPTIONAL AND THAT IS WHY SHE IS WHERE SHE IS AT.

>> O'Connell: ASSUMING SHE GETS THE SEAT, HER SEAT WILL BE UP FOR ELECTION.

WHAT DO YOU HOPE HAPPENS?

ARE PEOPLE BEING PERSUADED TO RUN?

AND WHAT'S THE INSIDE BASEBALL ON THE POLITICS OF IT ALL?

>> IF I KNEW THE INSIDE BASEBALL, I PROBABLY WON'T TELL, BUT I DON'T KNOW THE INSIDE BASEBALL.

BUT ALL I KNOW IS THAT THE ACLU IS GOVERNOR BAKER MUST APPOINT A SUCCESSOR WHO WILL CONTINUE THE WORK ON, AGAIN, A LEGAL SYSTEM THAT IS FOCUSED ON TRANSFORMATION AND HEALING AND COMMUNITY-CENTERED RESOURCES TO ADDRESS DISRUPTION AND HARM, AS OPPOSED TO THE TOUGH ON CRIME MODEL WE'VE SEEN FOR SO MANY GENERATIONS.

>> O'Connell: I KNOW DURING THE ELECTION CYCLE, I WAS HAPPILY PLEASED TO SEE THE OUTREACH TO FOLKS WHO ARE INCARCERATED, AS WELL AS TOWN MEETINGS IN NEIGHBORHOODS WHICH USUALLY DON'T HAVE THEM.

DO YOU HAVE A FULL PLAN IF, HOPEFULLY, WE CAN GET OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THIS COVID?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE STARTED.

THE "WHAT A DIFFERENCE A D.A.

MAKERS MAKES" IS ON THE GROUND AND PARTNERING, AND WE'LL HAVE ADVOCACY ISSUES THAT WE'LL BE TAKING TO D.A.s AND TO THE PUBLIC, AND CONTINUE TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ON THE ROLE, POWER, AND INFLUENCE OF THE D.A.s, TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE, AND IN REDUCING INCARCERATION.

>> O'Connell: DO YOU THINK SHE IS GOING TO HAVE ANY TROUBLE BEING CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE, D.A.

HARRINGTON?

>> I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO WATCHING RACHAEL ROLLINS AT THE CONFIRMATION HEARINGS.

SHE HAS A TREMENDOUS VISION.

SHE IS A TRANSFORMATIVE FIGURE IN CRIMINAL JUSTICE.

I DON'T SEE HER HAVING ANY PROBLEMS, BUT I'M A LITTLE BIAS.

>> O'Connell: D.A.

ANDREA HARRINGTON AND RAHSAAN HALL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> O'Connell: BY SOME ESTIMATES, AS MANY AS 40% OF BUSINESSES OWNED BY PEOPLE OF COLOR ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE CLOSED IN THE PANDEMIC.

THAT'S AN ESPECIALLY HARSH BLOW IN MASSACHUSETTS, WHERE BLACK AND LATINO PEOPLE MAKE UP MORE THAN 20% OF THE POPULATION, BUT EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC OWNED JUST 3% OF THE BUSINESSES WHICH HAD EMPLOYEES.

AS CHRIS BURRELL, FROM GBH'S CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING TELLS US, THAT'S FAR BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

>> Reporter: ARCHITECT DAVID LEE IS GOING OVER A PUNCH LIST WITH HIS BUILDER FOR THIS RENEVATION PROJECT HE DESIGNED AT A BRICK ROW-HOUSE IN ROXBURY.

LEE HAS OWNED A FIRM IN THE CITY SINCE THE '60s AND CAN JUST ABOUT COUNT THE NUMBER OF BLACK-OWNED CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES ON ONE HAND.

>> NUMBERS HAVE NOT INCREASED.

>> Reporter: CRUZ AND HIS FATHER HAVE BUILT A LOT AND OTHERS THAT HAVE COME ALONG.

>> THE FACT THAT YOU COULD PROBABLY NAME THEM ALL IS PROBLEMATIC, YOU KNOW?

>> Reporter: EVEN IF BLACK AND LATINO ENTREPRENEURS IN THE STATE HAVE FOLLOWED IN LEE'S FOOTSTEPS AND STARTED UP HUNDREDS OF ENTERPRISES IN THE LAST DECADE, BUSINESS OWNERSHIP IS STILL DISPROR PROPORTIONATELY DOMINATED BY WHITE MEN.

IT SHOWS THAT IN MASSACHUSETTS, BLACK AND LATINO PEOPLE CONTROL OVER 3.2% OF FIRMS.

THE NATIONAL RATE IS MORE THAN 7%.

IT'S HARD TO PINPOINT WHAT ACCOUNTS FOR THAT DISPARITY.

CRITICS FAULT THE LACK OF PRECISE RACIAL AND ETHNIC DATA FROM THE STATE ON SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS THAT GET MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LOANS AND GRANTS IN TAXPAYER-FUNDED PROGRAMS.

>> WE'RE AN EXCEPTIONAL STATE.

WE'RE A WEALTHY STATE.

AND OUR NUMBERS SHOULD LOOK BETTER THAN THEY DO.

>> Reporter: MALIA AT M.I.T.

SLOAN SCHOOL SAYS OTHER CITIES AND STATES ARE FAR MORE INNOVATIVE IN SUPPORTING BLACK AND LATINO ENTREPRENEURIALSHIP.

>> YOU HAVE TO SEE THE SIDE OF CREATING BUSINESSES AND YOU HAVE TO HOLD CORPORATES TO THE DEMAND SIDE OF BRINGING FOLKS IN AND GIVE YOURS, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS TO GET THAT RIGHT.

>> Reporter: SOME MINORITY BUSINESS OWNERS ARE ALREADY TAKING THE LEAD.

CITY FRESH FOODS, WHICH MAKES MEALS FOR SCHOOLS AND ELDERLY, JUST OFFERED LONG-TIME EMPLOYEES, NEARLY ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR, A CHANCE TO BE CO-OWNERS OF THE BUSINESS.

>> WE ALL KNOW THERE IS A BIG WEALTH GAP AROUND ASSETS AND WHAT FOLKS HAVE, ESPECIALLY IN THE COMMUNITY OF COLOR.

SO THIS IS A CHANCE FOR FOLKS TO GET A LITTLE SOMETHING.

>> Reporter: THAT LITTLE SOMETHING, CALLED CAPITAL, IS A HUGE BARRIER FOR BLACKS AND LATINOS BECOMING ENTREPRENEURS, COMPARED TO WHITES, WHO HAVE HIGHER RATES OF EQUITY AND RELATIVES WITH MORE MONEY.

>> WE HAVE CREATED FOLKS HERE WHO HAVE GONE OUT AND RUN THEIR OWN BUSINESSES.

MORE FOLKS WILL PARTICIPATE IN MAKING -- YOU KNOW, BRINGING US TO THE PROMISED LAND, SO TO SPEAK, OR GETTING US THERE.

>> Reporter: LICINIO MONTROND HAS WORKED HERE SINCE HE GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL.

>> WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE TO BECOME PART OWNER, WHY NOT COME IN AND TAKE THAT.

I LOOK AT WASTE AND OTHER THINGS DIFFERENT NOW.

I DON'T WANT TO BASICALLY THROW AWAY MY MONEY.

>> Reporter: MONTROND NOW HAS A STAKE IN THE PROFITS.

>> NEXT UP, ANOTHER KEY BOSTON FIGURE ALSO CHANGING JOBS.

HE'S LEAVING THE PAPER TO LAUNCH A NEWSLETTER.

♪♪ >> RACHAEL ROLLINS MADE AN THE BROADER CULTURE SURROUNDING IT, IT IS A THE TECHNOLOGY THAT BRINGS US OUR ENTERTAINMENT AND THE NEWSPAPERS AND MAGAZINES THAT COVER THEM.

I'VE CHANGED, TOO, AND SO IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON.

THOUGH HE IS NOT MOVING ON FROM MOVIES ALL TOGETHER, HE'LL STILL PUT OUT REVIEWS AND RECOMMENDATIONS IN A NEW SUBSTACK NEWSLETTER CALLED "TY BURR'S WATCH LIST."

THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

>> O'Connell: I HAVE THE LIST OF YOUR 3,000 MOVIE REVIEWS, AND I'D LIKE TO GO OVER THEM WITH YOU -- >> WE'VE GOT TIME.

>> O'Connell: WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF TIME.

I'M SO FASCINATED BY YOUR CHANGE BECAUSE SO MUCH HAS CHANGED.

CAN YOU TALK TO ME AND TELL US WHAT IS SORT OF THE TIPPING POINT FOR YOU WAS TO MAKE THIS CHANGE?

>> WELL, THE TIPPING POINT WAS REALLY THE PANDEMIC PUSHED ME INTO IT BECAUSE THERE WERE NO MORE MOVIES IN THEATERS.

I WAS REVIEWING EVERYTHING THROUGH STREAMING LINKS.

BUT LEADING UP TO THAT, THERE WAS A SENSE THAT AS THE STREAMING PLATFORMS PROLIFERATED AND EVERYBODY WAS WATCHING SHOWS AND MOVIES ON THEIR TVs, ALL THAT WAS KIND OF LEFT IN THE THEATERS WERE THE BIG BLOCKBUSTER, SUPER-HERO MOVIES, AND AT THE ART HOUSES, THERE WAS SORT OF DEDICATED AUDIENCES FOR THOSE MOVIES.

BUT MORE AND MORE THOSE WERE STARTING TO SHOW UP ON AMAZON AND NETFLIX AND OTHER PLACES, YOU KNOW, AS A PREMIERE.

SO THE BUSINESS WAS SHIFTING.

BUT THE WAY -- NOT JUST THE GLOBE, BUT THE WAY EVERYBODY COVERS MOVIES HAS NOT CHANGED IN REALLY, YOU KNOW, NOT EVEN (indiscernable) BUT EVEN BEFORE.

WE STILL LOOK AT THE THEATRICAL PREMIERE AS THE BE-ALL AND END-ALL, AND THEN YOU FORGET ABOUT IT.

BUT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 30 ARE NOT COMING TO THE MOVIES.

THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE NETFLIX AND THEY'RE GETTING BRAIN FREEZE.

>> O'Connell: JUST MY OWN VIEWING DURING THE PANDEMIC BROUGHT IT INTO STARK.

I LOVE GOING TO THE MOVIE THEATERS.

SOME PEOPLE WERE THRILLED TO BE ABLE TO HUG THEIR FAMILY, AND I CRIED DURING THE OPENING CREDITS OF A MOVIE BECAUSE I WAS IN A MOVIE THEATER.

THAT'S WHEN I GOT MISTY THAT I CAN FINALLY RETURN.

MY DAUGHTER IS 20, AND SHE DOESN'T CARE.

WE DIDN'T SEE "THE HEIGHTS" BECAUSE I WANTED TO SEE IT IN THE THEATER, AND SHE WANTED TO SEE IT ON STREAMING.

IT IS SHOWED ME HOW DIFFERENT THE GENERATIONS ARE IN VIEWING MOVIES NOW.

>> YES.

AND TO A GREAT DEGREE I REGRET THAT BECAUSE, AS YOU SAY, NOTHING REPLACES THE BIG SCREEN EXPERIENCE.

NOT JUST THE BIG SCREEN AND THE SOUND, BUT EXPERIENCING IT IN A ROOM FULL OF STRANGERS WHO ARE ALL HAVING THAT SAME EXPERIENCE.

NOTHING CAN REPLACE THAT.

BUT TECHNOLOGY DO WHAT TECHNOLOGY DO, AND SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIND A WAY AROUND THIS.

WHAT I DO FEAR IS THAT MOVIES AROUND ACTUAL PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO TO STREAMING AND REMAINING OUT-HOUSES, AND MULTIPLEXES WILL BE FULL OF THE BIG BLOCKBUSTERS, WHICH AFTER 19 YEARS I'M LESS INTERESTED IN WRITING ABOUT.

>> O'Connell: I CAN IMAGINE.

AND SOME PEOPLE MAY BE LESS INTERESTED IN WATCHING THEM, TOO.

PART OF THIS STARTED IN THE MAINSTREAM WITH "THE IRISHMAN," AND IT WAS MADE TO BE IN THE THEATERS, AND IT WAS, LIKE, 500 HOURS LONG AND, ALSO, YOU COULD WATCH IT STREAMING, WHICH ALSO HAD A VERY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE ON HOW PEOPLE EXPERIENCED THE MOVIE.

HOW ARE DIRECTORS AND WRITERS AND PRODUCERS -- I IMAGINE YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY PERSON THINKING, THINGS HAVE TO-CHANGER TO CHANGE AND I MIGHT HAVE TO CHANGE -- HOW ARE THEY REACTING TO IT?

>> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

I LIKE "THE IRISHMAN" BUT IT IS ILL-SERVED BY WATCHING IT AT HOME, WHEN THE DOORBELL IS RINGING AND THE MICROWAVE IS ON -- YOU NEED TO BE IN THE THEATER FOR THREE HOURS TO WATCH IT.

I THINK FILMMAKERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO ADDRESS THIS NEW MEDIUM.

THERE IS A REASON THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DRAWN MORE TO SERIAL TV, BECAUSE YOU CAN GET IN THERE AND DO AN HOUR OR HALF HOUR OR YOU CAN BINGE.

IT IS MALEABLE.

I DON'T THINK THE TWO-HOUR FILM IS GOING AWAY.

YOU CAN SAY THINGS THERE THAT YOU CAN'T SAY ANYWHERE ELSE.

BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW FILMMAKERS TAYLOR IT TO THE MOVIES.

>> O'Connell: IT IS LIKE JUST A NEWSLETTER, WHICH IT IS CALLED A NEWSLETTER, BUT IT IS NOT REALLY A NEWSLETTER.

HOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN WHAT SUBSTACK IS?

>> IT IS ESSENTIALLY A NEWSLETTER.

IT IS A PUBLISHING PLATFORM FOR NEWSLETTERS.

AND IT ALLOWS WRITERS, PUBLISHERS, AND JOURNALISTS TO OWN THEIR OWN MATERIAL AND PUT IT OUT WHEN THEY WANT TO AND DIRECTLY TO AN AUDIENCE.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO YOU COULD START A SUBSTACK NEWSLETTER.

I'M STARTING IT, HOPEFULLY, HAVING A BACKLOG OF AN AUDIENCE THAT WILL SORT OF PAY ATTENTION AND COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE.

BUT IT IS ESSENTIALLY AN E-MAIL WITH PICTURES AND LINKS THAT SHOWS UP IN YOUR IN-BOX, AND IN MY CASE THREE DAYS A WEEK.

MONDAY, WEDNESDAY, AND FRIDAY, YOU'LL GET AN E-MAIL SAYING HERE IS A MOVIE YOU CAN WATCH.

IT MIGHT BE OLD.

IT MIGHT BE NEW.

IT MAY BE IN THEATERS.

AND HERE IS A STORY BACKGROUND ABOUT IT THAT MAY MAKE YOU LAUGH.

I PUT UP SOMETHING UP TODAY ABOUT THE WALTER MATTHAU 1973 ORIGINAL, AND HE IS JUST A DELIGHT TO WRITE ABOUT.

SOMETIMES I'LL BE WRITING ABOUT A MOVIE THAT CAME OUT LAST YEAR.

IT ALLOWS ME A GREATER SENSE OF FREEDOM WHILE STILL CONNECTLY, HOPEFULLY, TO READERS THAT ARE INTERESTED.

>> O'Connell: DOES IT GIVE YOU AN ABILITY TO CONTEXTUALIZE THINGS?

I LIKE TO WATCH A MOVIE FIRST AND THEN READ REVIEWS ABOUT IT TO SEE IF WHAT I THINK I'M SO SMART ABOUT I ACTUALLY SAW, OR TO SEE AND HIGHLIGHT THINGS I MAY HAVE MISSED.

DOES THIS GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPAND THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THAT'S A TOTALLY BONAFIDE WAY TO READ REVIEWS.

SOME COME TO THEM BEFORE.

SOME COME AFTER.

SOME READ THE FIRST FEW PARAGRAPHS AND THEN COME BACK LATER TO READ THE REST.

BUT IT DOES ALLOW ME TO KNIT MOVIES TOGETHER, AND MAKE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN FILMS, BETWEEN DIRECTORS, BETWEEN AUDIENCES AND FILMMAKERS, BETWEEN THEMES.

IT KIND OF ALLOWS ME TO GO WHERE I WANT.

I HAVE THAT ABILITY IN MY SUNDAY COLUMN AT THE GLOBE, WHICH IS A GREAT FORMAT, AND I CAN WANDER INTO FIELDS OF POLITICS AND OTHER AREAS, NOT JUST MOVIES AND TV AND MUSIC.

AND I PROBABLY WILL STILL DO SOME OF THAT AS WELL.

BUT THINK OF THIS AS A CHERRY MOVIE RECOMMENDATION MACHINE WITH A BIT OF AN ATTITUDE.

>> O'Connell: OTHER NEWS THAT CAME OUT OF THE BLOAB GLOBE THIS WEEKEND, JACK WROTE HE HAS A TERMINAL ILLNESS, AND HE WROTE AN EXQUISITELY WELL-WRITTEN COLUMN.

I'VE BEEN READING JACK THOMAS SINCE I WAS IN THE FIFTH GRADE.

AND IT REMINDS US WHAT POWER THE COLUMNISTS HAVE IN THE PAPER, WHICH THEY STILL DO, BUT IT IS A DIFFERENT TIME.

WHAT ARE YOUR REFLECTIONS ABOUT JACK THOMAS?

>> IT WAS AN INCREDIBLY MOVING PIECE.

I NEVER MET HIM PERSONALLY.

HE WAS GONE FROM THE GLOBE BEFORE I ARRIVED.

BUT LIKE YOU, I'VE BEEN READING HIM SINCE I WAS A KID.

IT IS INTENTIONALLY MOVING TWOTO HEAR THAT VOICE FOR THE LAST TIME TAKING STOCK.

A COLUMN IS A POWERFUL, POWERFUL FEATURE, AND IT STILL IS.

AND THE GLOBE HAS THESE INCREDIBLE COLUMNISTS.

I WAS GLAD TO BE OF THAT NUMBER, ALTHOUGH SORT OF IN MY CULTURAL WHEELHOUSE.

I THINK A LOT OF SUB STACK WRITERS ARE STARTING IT AS A SIDE LINE OR QUITTING THEIR JOBS, AS I'VE DONE, AND TRY TO GIVE IT ALL THEIR FOCUS AND IT CAN REALLY BE THEIR BUSINESS.

IS THAT GOING TO REPLACE COLUMNISTS?

I THINK IT WILL CHIP AWAY A LITTLE AT THE FORMAT, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WILL PLAY OUT OVER TIME.

AND I DON'T WANT IT TO REFLECT POORLY ON MY GLOBE WRITERS.

>> O'Connell: ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT NOT HAVING AN EDITOR?

FOLKS MAY NOT KNOW WHEN WE WRITE, WE USUALLY SEND IT TO AN EDITOR WHO HELPS US TO BE BETTER WRITERS, OR BETTER COMMUNICATORS, AND SOME OF THE GREATEST EDITORS CAN REALLY ELEVATE YOUR WRITING.

BUT YOU'RE GOING TO KIND OF BE OUT THERE ON YOUR OWN.

ARE YOU A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT THAT?

>> ACTUALLY, SUBSTACK IS PROVIDING ME WITH AN EDITOR ON A LIMITED BASIS.

SHE ISHE IS A GREAT WRITER.

AND HE GIVES IT A ONCE-OVER AND WE TALK.

I'M NOT JUMPING OUT OF THE PLANE ENTIRELY WITHOUT A PARACHUTE.

IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO HAVE OTHER EYES ON THE STUFF YOU WRITE, SO THAT'S NOT QUITE GOING AWAY.

ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, I SORT OF TRAINED MYSELF TO TRY TO CATCH MAJOR THINGS BEFORE THEY GET OUT OF DOOR OVER THE 20 YEARS, AND, OF COURSE, I'VE STILL FAILED.

>> O'Connell: IF FOLKS WANT TO FIND YOUR SUBSTACK, WHERE CAN THEY FIND IT?

>> YOU TYPE INTO YOUR SEARCH FIELD TY BURR'S WATCH LIST.COM.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE, YOU CAN HAVE A PAID SUBSCRIPTION, AND YOU'LL BE GETTING SOME MORE COMMENTARY, AND THE ABILITY TO COMMENT, AND SOME OTHER GOODIES I'M STILL WORKING ON.

>> O'Connell: GREAT.

I LOOK FORWARD TO READING MORE OF YOUR WORK.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU, TY BURR.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

TAKE CARE.

>> YOU CAN FIND ALL OF HIS FUTURE FILM REVIEWS AND REPRESENT DATIONSRECOMMENDATIONS ON HIS WEBSITE.

COME BACK TOMORROW, AND WE'LL HAVE THE LATEST ON THE RISING COVID CASE NUMBERS HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS AS A RESULT OF THE DELTA VARIANT AND WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW TO KEEP YOURSELF SAFE.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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