♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> THE NOT SO HIDDEN THREAT OF RUSSIA'S MERCENARY ARMY.

EVEN VLADIMIR PUTIN COULDN'T SEE THE DANGER.

I'M JOINED BY OXFORD AND STANFORD HISTORIAN ROBERT SERVICE.

THEN -- >> I'M STILL PROCESSING AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN JUST GO AWAY WHEN THE WAR IS OVER.

>>> WHY RAPE IS STILL USED AS A WEAPON OF WAR, AND HOW IT CAN BE STOPPED.

MY CONVERSATION WITH A SURVIVOR OF THE ISIS GENOCIDE AGAINST THE YAZIDI PEOPLE, NOW A CAMPAIGNER AGAINST VIOLENCE.

ALSO AHEAD -- >> THE GENERAL RESPONSE FROM EX-TRUMP OFFICIALS WAS A SECOND TERM WILL NOT BE AS BAD AS YOU THINK.

IT WILL BE SO MUCH WORSE.

>>> FORMER TOP HOMELAND SECURITY STAFFER MILES TAYLOR WARNS MICHEL MARTIN ABOUT THE POTENTIAL DANGERS OF A SECOND TRUMP TERM.

>>> AND FINALLY -- >> USA!

USA!

>> HUGE ATTENDANCE AND EVER MORE TEAMS TO CHEER FOR, BUT CHALLENGES STILL FACE THE WOMEN'S WORLD CUP.

WE DISCUSS WITH FORMER PLAYERS BRANDI CHASTAIN AND LEE ANN SANDERSON.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

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SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT.

TO NOT MISS WHAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.

AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA, WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.

MUTUAL OF AMERICA FINANCIAL GROUP.

RETIREMENT SERVICES AND INVESTMENTS.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT IS FACING MAJOR CRITICISM FOR OVERLOOKING THE THREAT OF WAGNER, THE RUSSIAN MES THEIR NETWORK.

A PARLIAMENTARY COMMITMENT SAYS THE UK ICE DISMAL LACK OF UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE GROUP'S WORK IN AFRICA ALLOWED IT TO FLOURISH.

BUT ACCORDING TO "THE WASHINGTON POST," THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT, VLADIMIR PUTIN HIMSELF, WAS SO STUNNED BY WAGNER'S MARCH ON MOSCOW LAST MONTH THAT HE FROZE WITH INDECISION FOR ALMOST A DAY.

THE KREMLIN SPOKESMAN STRONGLY DENIES THAT.

BUT IT'S A REVELATION THAT DRAWS A SHARP CONTRAST WITH THE IMAGE OF STRONG MACHO LEADERSHIP THAT PUTIN'S ALWAYS PROJECTED TO THE WORLD.

THE WAR HE LAUNCHED ON UKRAINE HAS DENTED THAT IMAGE SO MUCH, AND THE UKRAINIAN COUNTEROFFENSIVE IS NOW MAKING SMALL BUT SIGNIFICANT GAINS ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

MY FIRST GUEST TONIGHT BELIEVES PUTIN HAS BROUGHT ALL THIS DAMAGE UPON HIMSELF.

ROBERT SERVICE IS A HISTORIAN AND FELLOW AT THE HOOVER INSTITUTION AT STANFORD.

HIS LATEST BOOK ON RUSSIA, "BLOOD ON THE SNOW" WILL BE PUBLISHED IN THE FALL, AND HE'S JOINING ME NOW FROM CALIFORNIA.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, PROFESSOR SERVICE.

SO, AS WE KEEP THE MICROSCOPE ON THE FALLOUT FROM THIS FAILED COUP, DO YOU THINK THAT PUTIN IS STRENGTHENED OR WEAKENED?

BECAUSE ON THE SURFACE OF IT, PRIGOZHIN IS EXILED TO BELARUS, WAGNER HAS BEEN MOVED OR INTEGRATE INTO THE MILITARY, PRIGOZHIN'S ENEMIES IN THE MILITARY ARE STILL RUNNING THE SHOW, AND PUTIN IS STILL FIRMLY INSTALLED IN THE KREMLIN.

>> I THINK HE IS SUCCESSFUL AT THE MOMENT IN RESTORING THE TO HIM, BUT I THINK THAT THOSE TEAM MEMBERS HAVE BEEN REALLY -- REALLY SHAKEN IN THEIR CONFIDENCE THAT THEY -- THAT THE MAN THAT SEEMED LIKE THEIR DICTATOR BEHAVED SO INCOME COMPETENTLY.

>> YOU BELIEVE THEN WHAT UKRAINIAN AND AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE ARE SAYING, THAT ACTUALLY PUTIN WAS SO STUNNED THAT HE BASICALLY WENT, YOU KNOW, SILENT FOR A LONG TIME, SOME 36 HOURS, DIDN'T GIVE ANY ORDERS.

KREMLIN STRONGLY DENIES IT.

BUT YOU MUST HAVE BEEN DOING, YOU KNOW, SOME LOOKING INTO THAT YOURSELF.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED IN THOSE HOURS?

>> I THINK THAT -- THAT PRIGOZHIN, WHO WAS REALLY PEW PUTIN'S PUPPET, HE WAS PUTIN'S CREATION, HIS CREATURE, PUTIN -- PUTIN WAS TAKEN ABACK WITH -- WAS ASTONISHED THAT THE PUPPET COULD TURN OUT TO BE THE PUPPETEER.

PRIGOZHIN DIDN'T JUST REVOLT.

HE SAID THINGS WERE WRONG IN THE GOVERNMENT OF RUSSIA.

SO, HE BROKE THE CODE OF THE PUTIN TEAM.

HE SAID TO THE WORLD, AND TO RUSSIA IN PARTICULAR, THINGS ARE REALLY GOING BADLY WRONG IN THE KREMLIN.

HE DIDN'T MENTION PUTIN BY NAME, BUT HE DID LEAD AN ARMED UNIT FROM THE SOUTH OF RUSSIA UP TOWARDS MOSCOW BEFORE HE DECIDED TO SURRENDER.

SO, THIS WAS A REALLY -- THIS WAS LIKE ONE OF THE 18th CENTURY PEASANT REVOLTS, EXCEPT THAT THE PEASANTS WHO REVOLTED ALWAYS SAID THAT THEY WERE AGAINST THE CURRENT LEADER.

PRIGOZHIN TOOK A STEP BACK FROM THAT, AND HE MUST HAVE HAD -- HE MUST HAVE HAD AN INKLING THAT THERE WERE ELEMENTS IN THE RUSSIAN MILITARY WHO WERE ON HIS SIDE.

HE WOULDN'T HAVE DONE THIS WITHOUT THAT.

>> AND ACTUALLY SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SEEN SINCE.

AND THERE ARE OTHERS, ALSO, WHO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, HAVE BEEN DISAPPEARED, IF YOU LIKE.

BUT AGAIN, THE ELITE THAT ARE AROUND PUTIN, WHO DEPEND ON PUTIN IN THE STRUCTURE THAT HE'S CREATED FOR THEIR SURVIVAL, AND FOR THE SURVIVAL OF RUSSIA, I SUPPOSE, THEIR VIEW OF RUSSIA, DO THEY FEEL MORE CONFIDENT BECAUSE PUTIN STARED DOWN PRIGOZHIN, OR LESS CONFIDENT?

>> WELL, THE -- THE PROBLEM IS PRIGOZHIN FULFILLED A VERY USEFUL FUNCTION.

HE HAD AN ARMED UNIT THAT COULD BE DENIABLE BY PUTIN AS BELONGING TO THE RUSSIAN STATE.

SO, PRIGOZHIN COULD DO THINGS AROUND THE WORLD AS IF HE WAS A PRIVATE MERCENARY ARMY, BUT HE WASN'T.

HE WAS BEING SUPPLIED WITH EQUIPMENT AND FINANCE BY THE KREMLIN ITSELF.

SO, IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR PUTIN TO UNSCRAMBLE ALL OF THIS.

AND THE FACT THAT HE TOOK SO LONG, HOURS, TO MAKE ANY KIND OF REACTION TO THE PRIGOZHIN EVENT, INDICATES WHAT A TANGLE PUTIN'S GOT HIMSELF INTO.

>> CAN I JUST GO TO THE UKRAINE, YOU KNOW, CONFLICT AT THE MOMENT, THE WAR THAT PUTIN STARTED, OBVIOUSLY THINKING THAT HE WAS GOING TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, A SLAM DUNK IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, AND THAT HASN'T TURNED OUT TO BE THE CASE, AND THAT'S HAD REPERCUSSIONS ALL OVER THE PLACE, NOT LEAST IN RUSSIA.

BUT PRIGOZHIN HAS CHALLENGED PUTIN'S RATIONALE, HAS USED THE WORD WAR INSTEAD OF WHATEVER THE KREMLIN SAYS.

>> YEAH.

>> AND NOT ONLY THAT, HE ACTUALLY REMINDED PUBLICLY THAT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WAS ELECTED, NOT TO CHALLENGE PUTIN, BUT TO ACTUALLY TRY TO BRING THE WAR TO AN END, TRY TO MAKE BETTER RELATIONS BETWEEN UKRAINE AND RUSSIA.

WHAT IS THAT -- THOSE REMINDERS, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO SAY TO THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE OR THE RUSSIAN ELITE?

>> THEY HAVE -- THEY HAVE A PROBLEM.

THEIR ONLY STRATEGY CAN BE TO SORT OF LASH OUT, HOPE FOR THE ARRIVAL AND POWER OF AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO IS LESS HOSTILE TO RUSSIAN PRETENSIONS, AND OBVIOUSLY, THEY HAVE DONALD TRUMP IN MIND.

THEY HAVEN'T LOST ALL OF THEIR RESOURCES.

THEY HAVE A HUGE POPULATION.

THEY HAVE AN ECONOMY THAT'S CREEKING, BUT IS SURVIVING THE WAR.

AND THEY HAVE A POPULATION THAT IS LARGELY, IF NOT ON PUTIN'S SIDE, AT LEAST NOT AGAINST HIM.

SO, THERE ARE A LOT OF PLUSES THAT THE RUSSIANS STILL HAVE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REASONS WHY PUTIN CAN HANG OUT THERE.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT THAT ZELENSKYY, ORIGINALLY, WAS ELECTED ON A BALLOT PAPER THAT SAID, I WILL TRY TO DEAL WITH THE RUSSIANS AND FIND A PEACEFUL SOLUTION.

WHAT PUTIN DID, THOUGH, LAST YEAR, WAS UNITE THE UKRAINIAN NATION BEHIND HIM, WHERE IT HADN'T BEEN COMPLETELY UNITED BEFORE.

AND TURNED ZELENSKYY FIRMLY AGAINST HIM.

>> AND AGAIN, YOU HAVE WRITTEN, CERTAINLY, IN YOUR LATEST BIG ARTICLE IN "THE FINANCIAL TIMES" THAT PART OF ALL OF THIS, WELL, YOUR THESIS IS THAT PUTIN'S BROUGHT ALL THIS ON HIS OWN HEAD.

HOW DOES THE RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA STRENGTHEN OR WEAKEN HIM AND RUSSIA IN THE END?

BECAUSE AT THE MOMENT, IT LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A GOOD DEAL FOR HIM, HE HAS A MAJOR SUPERPOWER ON HIS SIDE, AND THAT HE CAN CIRCUMVENT A LOT OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE PAIN THAT'S COMING FROM NATO AND THE WEST?

>> I THINK THIS REALLY -- THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION YOU ASKED THERE.

THIS REALLY GOES TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER.

YEARS AGO, PUTIN DECIDED THAT HIS BEST GEOPOLITICAL BET WOULD BE TO SNUB THE USA AND COZY UP TO CHINA.

AND THAT WAY, TO DO DOWN THE USA.

INSTEAD OF WHICH HE COULD HAVE EASILY PLAYED OFF CHINA AND THE USA AGAINST EACH OTHER AND SOUGHT FAVORS FROM THEM.

BECAUSE THEY WANTED HIS FAVOR.

CHINA HAS SHOWN NO SERIOUS INTEREST IN HELPING RUSSIA IN THE WAY THAT RUSSIA NEEDS AT THE MOMENT.

I MEAN, JUST LOOK AT THAT SILK ROAD THAT IS BEING BUILT ALL ACROSS OLD SOVIET CENTRAL ASIA.

THE CHINESE ARE MOVING INTO WHAT RUSSIA THINKS OF AS ITS OUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE, IN A BIG WAY, AND THERE'S NOTHING THAT RUSSIA CAN DO ABOUT IT.

IT'S GETTING CHEAPER OIL AND GAS FROM RUSSIA THAN AT THE WORLD MARKET PRICE.

RUSSIA IS PAYING A HUGE FINANCIAL AND GEOPOLITICAL PRICE FOR THIS -- THIS RUSSIAN PRESIDENT, VLADIMIR PUTIN.

>> IT'S SO INTERESTING YOU SAY THAT, BECAUSE PUTIN HAS ALWAYS SAID THAT IT'S NATO THAT'S ENCROACHING ON WHAT IT BELIEVES TO BE ITS SPHERE OF INFLUENCE, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LAYING OUT WHY IT'S NOT, AND, IN FACT, IT'S CHINA.

TO THAT POINT, I WANT TO ASK YOU, ALSO SOMETHING THAT YOU BROUGHT UP, WHICH YOU REMEMBER AND EVERYBODY DOES THAT IN 2005, YOU KNOW, WHEN HE CAME INTO POWER, SHORTLY AFTER, HE FAMOUSLY SAID, ABOVE ALL, WE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION WAS A MAJOR GEOPOLITICAL DISASTER OF THE CENTURY.

AND OF COURSE, IN HIS TELLING, IT WAS GORBACHEV AND THE REFORM, YOU KNOW -- >> VICE CALL FEELING THAT HE ALWAYS HAD.

>> YEAH, BUT I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU -- >> HE AS A YOUNG MAN IN LENINGRAD, IN THE EARLY 1990s, HE'S ON THE RECORD AS HAVING SAID, IT'S A DISGRACE, IT'S A SCANDAL, IT'S INTOLERABLE, THAT RUSSIAN SPEAKERS IN THE COUNTRIES, THE NEW INDEPENDENT COUNTRIES OF THE EX-USSR ARE NOT BEING TREATED FAIRLY ENOUGH.

SO, HE'S ALWAYS HAD THIS IMPERIALIST ITCH.

>> YEAH.

>> AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS COME UP AS A RESULT OF NATO'S ACTIONS, IT WAS THERE BACK IN 1990, 1991, 1992.

THIS IS SOMETHING REALLY BASIC TO HIM.

AND HE READS HISTORY BOOKS, WITHOUT ANY KIND OF ATTEMPT TO AVOID BIAS, SO THAT ALTHOUGH HE'S TRYING TO BE A LEARNED STUDENT OF THE RUSSIAN PAST, HE'S REALLY A GAMMA MINUS, NOT AN ALPHA PLUS.

>> HE SAYS THE REFORM, THE DESIRE TO GO TOWARDS LIBERALIZATION, HE HATED IT.

YOU WROTE IN FACT THAT THE COUP ATTEMPT AGAINST GORBACHEV AT THE TIME, THAT WAS THE KEY FACTOR AGAINST THE SOVIET UNION AT THE TIME.

SO PUTIN HAS READ IT WRONG.

>> THIS -- GORBACHEV LIBERALIZED, DEMOCRATIZED, BUT HE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A PLAN FOR THE ECONOMY, SO, HE BECAME HUGELY UNPOPULAR, AND HE BROUGHT UPON HIMSELF A COUP THAT DIDN'T SUCCEED, WHICH WOULD HAVE RESTORED THE OLD AGENCIES OF SOVIET STATEHOOD AND KEPT THE WHOLE COUNTRY TOGETHER.

THE COUP THAT WE'VE JUST SEEN IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS BY PRIGOZHIN IS NOTHING LIKE THAT.

IT'S -- IT'S MORE A REVOLT BY A SINGLE COMMANDER WHO HAD A NUMBER OF GRIEVANCES AGAINST THE RUSSIAN ARMY ITSELF.

SO, IT'S -- IT'S A QUITE DIFFERENT -- IT'S A QUITE DIFFERENT MOOD AND ATMOSPHERE AND A QUITE DIFFERENT SET OF PURPOSES.

AND, IF IT HADSUCCEEDED, IT WOULD HAVE BROUGHT TO POWER A GROUP WHO WANTED TO DO EVEN MORE DREADFUL THINGS.

>> RIGHT.

>> IN THE WAY OF RAISING THE BAR OF OPPRESSION AND PERSECUTION IN RUSSIA.

>> PROFESSOR SERVICE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, INDEED, FOR YOUR VALUABLE PERSPECTIVE THERE.

THANK YOU.

>>> AND MY NEXT GUEST SAYS THAT THE WARFARE TODAY LOOKS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT IT WAS 50 TO 100 YEARS AGO.

ONE THING THAT REMAINS THE SAME IS THE USE OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN CONFLICT.

INCLUDING, OF COURSE, BY RUSSIAN FORCES IN UKRAINE.

YAZIDI ACTIVIST WON THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR HER WORK AT A WITNESS TO THE HORRORS OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

A SURVIVOR OF THE ISIS GENOCIDE IN SYRIA AND IRAQ NINE YEARS AGO, SHE'S NOW AN ADVOCATE FOR REFUGEES AND VICTIMS OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN CONFLICT AROUND THE WORLD.

SOMETHING THAT'S RISING AS WAR BREAKS OUT EVER MORE -- IN EVER MORE PLACES.

WE DISCUSS THIS CRISIS, HER MEETING WITH THE UKRAINIAN FIRST LADY, AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO HOLD THE PERPETRATORS ACCOUNTABLE.

NADIA, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO, AS WE HAVE AN ONGOING WAR, WHICH WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, IN UKRAINE, ONE OF THE TERRIBLE THINGS, AS YOU KNOW AND AS EVERYBODY KNOWS, IS THE ONGOING USE OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE AND RAPE AGAINST CIVILIANS, AND EVEN THE U.N. IS SAYING THAT RUSSIA IS USING THAT AS PART OF ITS MILITARY STRATEGY.

WHAT DID YOU DISCUSS WITH THE FIRST LADY?

HOW CAN YOU HELP THE UKRAINIAN WOMEN AND GIRLS WHO ARE SO AFFECTED?

>> YOU KNOW, WOMEN HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF WARS WAGED BY MEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME.

THIS IS NOT NEW TO UKRAINE.

IF WE LOOK BACK AT THE HISTORY, WE CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, IN CONFLICTS IN AFRICA, IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND EVEN HERE IN EUROPE, WOMEN HAVE BEEN USED AS WEAPON OF WAR IN CONFLICT.

I DISCUSSED WHAT WE SHOULD DO RIGHT NOW FOR SURVIVORS WITH THE FIRST LADY OF UKRAINE.

>> I SAID ZELENSKYY, IT'S ZELENSKA, OF COURSE.

>> SHE INVITED ME AND IT'S BEEN TWO MONTHS, AND I'M STILL PROCESSING WHAT I SAW, YOU KNOW, THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE, WHAT THEY HAVE DONE FOR THEIR LAND, THEIR COUNTRY, THEIR PEOPLE, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, MY CONVERSATION WITH SURVIVORS WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, ENDURED THE WORST OF, YOU KNOW, VIOLENCE IN THIS WAR.

SOMETIMES WE TALK AND WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE WAR IN UKRAINE AND ESPECIALLY ON, YOU KNOW, THE MILITARY LEVEL.

BUT WHAT I SAW WAS DIFFERENT.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, WOMEN, THOUSANDS OF WOMEN HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED, AND THEY NEED SUPPORT RIGHT NOW.

>> WHAT DO THEY SAY THEY NEED?

HOW DO THEY DESCRIBE WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH NOW, EVEN THOUGH THE ACTUAL ABUSE HAS STOPPED?

HOW ARE THEY PROCESSING, LIVING?

>> MOST OF THEM ARE STILL NOT, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T FEEL READY TO SHARE THEIR STORIES, BUT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH A LOT.

THEY ARE TRAUMATIZED, AND ONE OF THEM SAID, YOU KNOW, SHE KNOWS 50 OTHER WOMEN WHO ARE SOMEWHERE AND BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED.

THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR FRIENDS, THEIR RELATIVES WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH THAT, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO SHARE THEIR STORIES, BECAUSE, AS YOU KNOW, SEXUAL VIOLENCE COMES WITH A LOT OF SHAME AND STIGMA, AND I'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE IN IRAQ AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THOUSANDS OF WOMEN AND GIRLS THERE.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE A SURVIVOR OF THAT KIND OF BRUTAL ATTACK, RIGHT?

I MEAN, YOU ARE A SURVIOR OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE DURING THE ISIS CAMPAIGN AGAINST YOUR YAZIDI PEOPLE.

HOW DID YOU, I KNOW YOU'VE WRITTEN A LOT ABOUT IT, BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS WAR HAPPENING NOW, NINE TO TEN YEARS LATER, HOW DID -- DO YOU FIND THAT THEY WERE DEALING WITH THE SAME THINGS YOU WERE DEALING WITH?

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO PROCESS, OR ARE YOU STILL PROCESSING?

>> I'M STILL PROCESSING, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN JUST GO AWAY WHEN THE WAR IS OVER.

BECAUSE IT'S -- YOU KNOW, IT IMPACTS YOUR HEALTH, ON PHYSICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL LEVEL, AND WHEN I STARTED TELLING MY STORY, THERE WAS NO LANGUAGE THAT I COULD FOLLOW ABOUT THE USE OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE AS A WEAPON OF WAR.

AND I KNEW NO OTHER SURVIVORS FROM OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE SAME.

SO, I WANTED, YOU KNOW, TO SHARE MY STORY WITH THE UKRAINIAN SURVIVORS TO TELL THEM THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAD BEEN THERE BEFORE THEM.

AND THAT THIS IS NOT THEIR FAULT, AND THAT THEY DESERVE JUSTICE AND THEY DESERVE SUPPORT, REPARATIONS.

SO, THEY KNEW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE USE OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE, BUT NOT THAT MUCH.

SO, I'M HOPING THAT WE CAN DO BETTER FOR THEM, BECAUSE THEY -- INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY DID NOTHING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE USE OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE BY ISIS.

IT WAS ONLY SEEN AS A SIDE EFFECT UNTIL SURVIVORS SHARED THEIR STORIES.

>> SO, THAT'S VERY INTERESTING, BECAUSE, OBVIOUSLY, IN THE '90s, THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL DID MAKE SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN WAR A WAR CRIME.

>> YEAH.

>> AND THEY DID PROSECUTE THESE WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT IN THE ILLEGAL WAR IN BOSNIA AND ALSO THE GENOCIDE OF RWANDA.

AND YET NO ACCOUNTABILITY HAS COME TO THE ISIS PERPETRATORS, RIGHT?

IS THAT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T BE FOUND?

IS THAT BECAUSE -- WHY NOT?

>> ACTUALLY, THERE HAS BEEN THREE CASES IN GERMANY, ONLY IN GERMANY.

BUT WE HAVE THOUSANDS OF EVIDENCE, TESTIMONY, DOCUMENTATIONS, ISIS THEMSELVES AND THE WHOLE WORLD WATCHED WHEN THEY PUBLICLY DID EVERYTHING.

AND TODAY, AS WE SPEAK, NINE YEARS LATER, WE STILL HAVE CLOSE TO 3,000 WOMEN AND CHILDREN MISSING IN CAPTICAPTIVITY.

SURVIVORS ARE SHARING THEIR STORIES, AND WHAT IS MISSING IS THE POLITICAL WILL.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE, IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT SURVIVORS DON'T WANT TO SHARE THEIR STORIES, WE JUST NEED -- YOU KNOW, GERMANY MADE IT CLEAR THAT IT IS POSSIBLE.

>> SO, AS YOU SAY, THERE ARE THESE NEARLY 3,000 -- I THINK YOU SAID NEARLY 3,000 WHO HAVE MISSING.

YOU ALSO, THOUGH, ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SAVE, RESCUE, AND BRING HOME A NUMBER OF THESE WOMEN.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT, HOW MANY, HOW DID YOU MANAGE IT, WHERE DID YOU TAKE THEM FROM?

>> YOU KNOW, THIS NUMBER IS HUGE, SOME OF THEM WERE CHILDREN WHEN THEY WERE TAKEN INTO CAPTIVITY, NOW THEY ARE ADULTS IN CAPTIVITY.

WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY ARE, WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE IN SYRIA, IN SOME PARTS OF TURKEY, EVEN IN IRAQ.

THIS NEEDS AN INTERNATIONAL, YOU KNOW, SUPPORT.

BECAUSE WE ARE, YOU KNOW, I'M ONE PERSON, OUR INITIATIVE, OUR TEAM ON THE GROUND IS COLLECTING EVIDENCE, WORKING WITH THE FAMILIES, BUT IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO DO IT ALONE, WHEN OUR OWN GOVERNMENT HAS DONE NOTHING.

>> WHEN YOU SAY YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT -- >> IRAQI GOVERNMENT.

THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO RESCUE A SINGLE PERSON FROM, YOU KNOW, CAPTIVITY, AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, WHEN THE COALITION AGAINST ISIS WAS ESTABLISHED, THE RESCUING OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN WAS NOT A PART OF IT.

SO, AS SOON AS ISIS WAS DEFEATED, EVERYONE MOVED ON AND THE PEOPLE ARE STILL MISSING IN CAPTIVITY.

SO, WE TRY WITH THE FAMILIES, YOU KNOW, FAMILIES, SOMETIMES THEY HAVE SOME INFORMATION, WHERE THEY ARE, AND WE TRY TO, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE WORK WITH THE FAMILIES WITH THE COMMUNITY, AND BRING THEM BACK.

>> AS THIS NINTH YEAR ANNIVERSARY, WHICH IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO CALL IT, BUT THE NINTH YEAR SINCE THIS GENOCIDE, YOU ARE ALSO NOTICING THAT THERE HAVE BEEN NO GRAVEYARDS, NO SITES, NO MEMORIALS, AND YOU'RE TRYING TO ADJUST THAT, AREN'T YOU?

TRYING TO MAKE UP FOR THAT.

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO BUILD, AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

>> I WASN'T TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, GENERATIONS FROM NOW WILL REMEMBER WHAT ISIS DID TO A COMMUNITY LIKE MINE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT VERY, YOU KNOW, UNIQUE TO THE YAZIDI COMMUNITY.

MINORITIES HAVE BEEN MARGINALIZED FOR GENERATIONS IN THAT REGION.

I THINK MY BROTHER AND MY SIX BROTHERS, MY, YOU KNOW, FRIENDS, NEIGHBORS, RELATIVES, ALL DESERVE TO BE REMEMBERED FOR WHAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE SACRIFICED, AND UNFORTUNATELY, NOTHING IS BEING DONE TO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE COMMUNITY TO COME TOGETHER FOR, YOU KNOW, A DATE LIKE THIS, TO JUST COME TOGETHER AND REMEMBER THOSE WE'VE LOST.

AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN BUILD SOMETHING, WE CAN BUILD OUR COMMUNITY, AND IT CAN BE AN EXAMPLE THAT WE CAN USE IN UKRAINE AND OTHER POST-CONFLICT ZONES, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE REMEMBER THOSE WHO SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES AND, YOU KNOW, THE REGION, AND SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE TO ISIS AND OTHER GROUPS THAT IMPUNITY IS NOT AN ACTION, AND THEIR CRIMES AND VIOLENCE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE AND GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE WILL SEE IT.

>> YOU'VE BEEN TO GERMANY, YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, THE ONLY CASES THAT HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED ARE IN GERMANY.

YOU KNOW PROBABLY NOW IN EUROPE, A LOT OF ANTI-IMMIGRATION, RIGHT-WING SENTIMENT HAS JUST -- IT'S JUST BOILING AGAINST REFUGEES.

EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NOT A MASSIVE REFUGEE CRISIS IN OUR COUNTRIES.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

HOW DO YOU INTERPRET OR UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN EUROPE WHEN IT COMES TO TRYING TO PROTECT, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDER SUCH THREAT?

>> WE KNOW THAT NOW THE NUMBER OF REFUGEES, OF DISPLACED PEOPLE, HAVE SURPASSED 100 MILLION PEOPLE.

>> AROUND THE WORLD.

>> AROUND THE WORLD.

>> IT'S THE WORST CRISIS IN U.N. HISTORY.

>> AND THE NUMBER IS GROWING.

AND I -- WE CAN JUST, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT WHAT SOME COUNTRIES, THEIR POLICIES, THERE ARE WALLS BEING BUILT, GOVERNMENTS ARE JUST AGAINST -- AND WE, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT THE FUTURE OF REFUGEES, THIS 100 MILLION PEOPLE, IS NOT RIGHT.

AND SO MANY PEOPLE ARE AGAINST REFUGEES WELCOME.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE CAN'T KEEP PEOPLE IN DISPLACED CAMPS FOREVER.

WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HELP THE MOST VULNERABLE ONES, AND WE ALSO WORK TOGETHER TO REBUILD POST-CONFLICT SOCIETIES, SO IF, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE CANNOT MAKE IT HERE TO THE UK, WE CAN HELP THEM TO GO BACK HOME, AND THIS IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING UNTIL IRAQ.

WE KNOW THAT NO COUNTRY IS READY TO BRING ALL THE YAZIDIS, SO, SINCE THERE IS NO WAR, WHY NOT WORKING TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE GO BACK TO THEIR HOMES AND REBUILD THEIR LIVES?

>> AS YOU SAY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENED IN EUROPE, IT'S HAPPENING NOW IN EUROPE, IT HAPPENED IN THE MIDDLE EAST, IN YOUR REGION, IT'S HAPPENED IN AFRICA, MANY, MANY OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.

SO, SUDAN IS IN THE MIDST OF A TERRIBLE CRISIS.

I'M GOING TO READ SOME OF THE STATISTICS.

IN SUDAN, OFFICIALS ARE WARNING ABOUT A SPIKE IN THIS KIND OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND GIRLS.

APPARENTLY BEFORE THE LATEST ROUND OF CIVIL WAR BROKE OUT, IN APRIL, MORE THAN 3 MILLION SUDANESE WOMEN AND GIRLS WERE AT RISK OF VIOLENCE AGAINST THEM.

THIS NOW HAS CLIMBED TO 4.2, IN OTHER WORDS, ANOTHER MILLION MORE ARE AT RISK, ACCORDING TO THE U.N. AND THIS IS WHAT MARTIN GRIFFITHS, WHO IS THE LEADER OF THE, YOU KNOW, EMERGENCY RELIEF COORDINATION, HE SAYS.

IT'S UNCONSCIONABLE THAT SUDAN'S WOMEN AND CHILDREN WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN UP ENDED BY THIS SENSELESS CONFLICT, ARE BEING FURTHER TRAUMATIZED IN THIS WAY.

WHAT WE ARE WITNESSES IN SUDAN IS NOT JUST A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS, IT'S A CRISIS OF HUMANITY.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND, WHY IT IS WAR THAT REALLY MAKES THIS SUCH A WORSE PROBLEM FOR WOMEN?

WHAT IS IT ABOUT WAR AND THE ACTIONS THAT HAPPEN IN WAR THAT INCREASE THIS VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN?

>> YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THE -- THOSE NUMBERS REPRESENT REAL PEOPLE LIKE ME.

THEY'RE NOT JUST NUMBERS, THEY'RE REAL PEOPLE BEHIND THESE NUMBERS.

AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE OF HOW WE TREAT WOMEN BEFORE WAR.

I MEAN, I CAN TALK ABOUT IRAQ, THERE WERE NO LAWS TO PROTECT WOMEN, WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

AND THE WAY WE TREAT WOMEN IN TIMES OF PEACE GIVES US A VERY CLEAR, YOU KNOW, ANSWER ON HOW WOMEN WILL BE TREATED DURING THE TIME OF WAR.

AND WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, COMBAT THE GENDER BIAS AND STEREOTYPES IN OUR FAMILIES, SOCIETIES, IN SCHOOL, AND IT ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, GOES DOWN TO EDUCATION AND EQUALITY.

>> WELL, YOU ARE REALLY WAVING THAT FLAG FOR EQUALITY AND AWARENESS, SO, NADIA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED, FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> OUR NEXT GUEST ONCE BLEW THE WHISTLE ON FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S CONDUCT IN OFFICE.

NOW, MILES TAYLOR, THE FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, IS PUBLICLY WARNING ABOUT WHAT HE SEES AS EVEN GREATER DANGERS IF THERE WAS TO BE A SECOND TRUMP TERM.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

MILES TAYLOR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE WHO KIND OF FOLLOW POLITICS, EVEN A LITTLE, KNOW THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF TRUMP RETROSPECTIVES OUT THERE.

A LOT OF BOOKS BY FORMER TRUMP OFFICIALS OR PEOPLE WHO WERE KIND OF TRUMP ADJACENT, KIND OF GIVING THEIR TAKE ON THE ADMINISTRATION.

THIS BOOK IS DIFFERENT.

EXPLAIN HOW.

>> WELL, I KIND OF GOT SICK OF READING ALL OF THOSE RETROSPECTIVES, AS I'M SURE OTHERS DID.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF SELF-CONGRATULATORY MEMOIRS OF THE TRUMP YEARS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW BRAVE AND BOLD PEOPLE THINK THEY WERE DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, BUT WHAT THEY WERE NOT GIVING US WAS A LUCID PROJECTION OF WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF WE MADE THIS MISTAKE AGAIN.

IF WE PUT DONALD TRUMP OR ANOTHER HYPER POPULIST IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND TO ME, THAT'S THE UTILITY OF HISTORY.

THE UTILITY OF HISTORY IS TO TELL US ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN NEXT AND TEACH US LESSONS.

AND THE TRUMP MEMOIRS REALLY DIDN'T GIVE US THAT.

SO, MY GOAL WAS TO TRY TO PAINT A PICTURE OF TRUMP 2.0 AND A SECOND TERM, AND NOT JUST IN MY VOICE, BUT TO GO TALK TO DOZENS AND DOZENS OF CABINET SECRETARIES AND SENIOR OFFICIALS, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE STAFF ASSISTANTS THAT SAT OUTSIDE THE OVAL OFFICE DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO ASK THEM ONE SIMPLE QUESTION -- WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN A SECOND GO ROUND, AND TO CONVY THAT MESSAGE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> HOW DID THAT RESPOND TO THAT?

I'M WONDERING WHAT IT WAS LIKE WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED PEOPLE TO ASK THEM THIS.

>> YEAH, IF I COULD BOIL IT DOWN INTO A SENTENCE, I WOULD SAY THAT THE GENERAL RESPONSE FROM EX-TRUMP OFFICIALS WAS, A SECOND TERM WILL NOT BE AS BAD AS YOU THINK.

IT WILL BE SO MUCH WORSE.

>> HMM.

>> AND THAT ENDED UP BEING THE PROMPT THAT LED TO A LOT OF REALLY SHOCKING CONVERSATIONS, TO ME, I'LL CONFESS TO SORT OF ARROGANTLY THINKING I KNEW HOW BAD ANOTHER TERM COULD BE, BECAUSE I HAD WITNESSED THE POLICIES THAT WERE THWARTED IN THE FIRST TERM.

SOME OF THE REALLY UGLY THINGS, ILLEGAL THINGS, THAT THE PRESIDENT WANTED TO DO THAT WERE STOPPED.

AND SO, BASED ON THAT, I THOUGHT I KNEW, YOU KNOW, PRETTY CLEARLY WHAT THEY WOULD WANT TO DO IN A SECOND TERM, BUT AFTER PROBABLY CLOSE TO 100 CONVERSATIONS WITH EX-TRUMP OFFICIALS, IT WAS A MUCH MORE GRIM PORTRAIT THAN I HAD EXPECTED, BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, I DIDN'T REALIZE IN HOW MANY OTHER DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES THERE HAD BEEN THIS CORE PUS OF VERY UGLY REJECTED POLICIES THAT WE WOULD EXPECT TO MAKE A RETURN IF TRUMP HIMSELF DOES RETURN.

>> LET'S GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF THOSE DEPARTMENTS, AND LET'S START WITH THE PLACE THAT YOU -- WHERE YOU SERVED, WHICH IS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT YOU AND YOUR REPORTING, FRANKLY, YOUR REPORTING WITH OTHER OFFICIALS, DESCRIBED WHAT MIGHT BE THE PLACEBOOK.

>> WELL, FIRST, I WANT TO START ON IMMIGRATION.

YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER BEEN AN IMMIGRATION POLICY EXPERT, AND MOST OF MY TIME IN THE ADMINISTRATION WAS WORKING ON COUNTERTERRORISM AND INTELLIGENCE, BUT I OF COURSE WAS EXPOSED TO TRUMP'S IMMIGRATION FIXATION, BECAUSE IT'S ALL HE EVER WANTED TO TALK TO THE DEPARTMENT ABOUT, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF DESCRIPTIONS ABOUT TRUMP WANTING TO USE THE NATION'S COUNTERTERRORISM APPARATUS AGAINST UNARMED, INNOCENT MIGRANTS.

AND THAT'S REALLY CONCERNING TO ME.

TRUMP LEARNED IN THE FIRST TERM THAT POST-9/11, WE GOT REALLY, REALLY GOOD AT COUNTERTERRORISM.

WHAT DO I MEAN BY THAT?

WATCH LISTING BAD GUYS, GOING AFTER THEM WITH LETHAL FORCE AND TRACKING THEM, AND HE WANTED TO USE THOSE TOOLS AGAINST MIGRANTS.

AND SO, I HAD, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TELLING ME ABOUT HOW IN A SECOND TERM, TRUMP WOULD DESIGNATE MIGRANT GROUPS AS FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS, DEPLOY THE MILITARY AND GIVE THEM AUTHORIZATION TO USE LETHAL FORCE, REALLY SHOCKING THINGS THAT, AGAIN, I HAVE TO BE CLEAR, ARE NOT LEGAL FOR A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO DO, BUT EVEN BEYOND THE BORDER, A NUMBER OF OFFICIALS WHO WERE THERE UNTIL THE END OF THE ADMINISTRATION, LONG AFTER I HAD LEFT, SAID THAT TRUMP HAD AN INTEREST IN DEPLOYING DHS COUNTERTERRORISM FORCES INTO U.S. CITIES, ESPECIALLY DEMOCRATIC CITIES, TO EXERT CONTROL.

WE SAW A SIMPLE OF THAT IN PORTLAND DURING THE RIOTS IN PORTLAND, BUT I HAD ONE OFFICIAL TELL ME IN A SECOND TERM, DONALD TRUMP WOULD DEPLOY DHS FORCES TO THE POLLS DURING ELECTIONS, TO TRY TO INTIMIDATE VOTERS.

IN OTHER WORDS, TO SCARE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS AWAY FROM THE POLLS.

AND WE'VE SEEN A SAMPLE OF THAT, WITH SO-CALLED POLL WATCHERS IN PLACES LIKE ARIZONA SHOWING UP WITH WEAPONS.

>> YOU DESCRIBE IN THE BOOK MEETINGS WHERE HE EXPRESSED ADMIRATION, YOU KNOW, FOR DICTATORS.

YOU DESCRIBE MEETINGS WHERE HE DESCRIBED TACTICS THAT HE WISHES HE COULD EMPLOY, LIKE CREATING A DEMILITARIZED ZONE, SUCH AS EXISTS BETWEEN NORTH KOREA AND SOUTH KOREA, WHERE HE DESCRIBES PEOPLE LITERALLY SHOOTING PEOPLE COMING ACROSS, OR TRYING TO CROSS, THE DEMILITARIZED ZONE.

ARE YOU, MR. TAYLOR, YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT THE PEOPLE SITTING IN THESE MEETINGS ACTUALLY HEARD HIM SAY THAT?

>> WELL, I ACTUALLY HEARD HIM SAY THAT.

I MEAN, I -- YOU KNOW, I TOOK NOTES AND DOCUMENTED TRUMP ACTUALLY SAYING TO US, HE WANTED THE BORDER TO BE JUST LIKE THE DMZ IN KOREA, IN FACT, I THINK HIS EXACT QUOTE TO US WAS, KIM JONG-UN DOES IT SO MUCH BETTER, WHY DON'T WE DO IT LIKE HIM?

AND HIS REFERENCE WAS TOBARBED WIRE AND LAND MINES.

THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED THE UNITED STATES BORDER TO LOOK LIKE.

MAKE NO MISTAKE, THE SITUATION AT THE BORDER IS A MESS, BUT IT'S A MESS FOR THE PEOPLE TRYING TO SEEK A BETTER LIFE.

EVEN IF THEY HAVE A LAWFUL RIGHT TO BE HERE, THEY DON'T GET AN ANSWER FROM AMERICA'S COURTS UNTIL FIVE, SEVEN, OR EVEN TEN YEARS LATER, AND IN THE MEANTIME, THEY HAVE TO LIVE IN LIMBO.

THAT'S JUST WRONG.

AND DONALD TRUMP WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY LIVED IN LIMBO FOREVER, OR WORSE, THEY'D BE TARGETED.

BUT I WANT TO MENTION WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT DICTATORS.

THIS CAME UP A LOT DURING THE ADMINISTRATION WHEN I WAS THERE, AND IN MY INTERVIEWS AFTER, WHICH IS, WE HAVE THESE WEEKLY NATIONAL SECURITY PHONE CALLS, SO, THINK THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER AT THE WHITE HOUSE, AND THE TOP CABINET SECRETARIES AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES.

FREQUENTLY ON THOSE PHONE CALLS, WE WOULD BE CONFOUNDED BY THE PRESIDENT'S PUBLIC COMMENTS PRAISING AMERICA'S ADVERSARIES.

XI JINPING IN CHINA, KIM JONG-UN IN NORTH KOREA, VLADIMIR PUTIN IN RUSSIA.

HIS OWN PEOPLE WERE SORT OF SHOCKED THAT HE HAD THIS DEEP, DEEP AND ABIDING AFFINITY FOR DICTATORS AND AN AVERSION FOR OUR ALLIES.

ANY TIME HE WENT ABROAD TO A NATO MEETING, HE WAS FRUSTRATED THAT HE HAD TO GO.

HE DID NOT LIKE MEETING WITH AMERICA'S DEMOCRATIC ALLIES AND THE REASON, THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY WOULD DO HIM FAVORS.

>> WOW.

I'M GOING TO GO RIGHT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

AND THE REASON I'M GOING THERE IS THAT I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALLY NECESSARILY THINK ABOUT THE WAYS THAT THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT COULD BE WEAPONIZED, AS YOU PUT IT IN THE BOOK, SO, WOULD YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT?

>> I'LL GIVE YOU TWO ANECDOTES THAT REALLY SHOCKED ME, AND ONE WAS ON IMMIGRATION.

I WAS TOLD BY TRUMP'S OWN CHIEF OF STAFF AT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION THAT THERE WAS A POLICY THAT THEY TRIED TO IMPLEMENT, THAT THE WHITE HOUSE TRIED TO IMPLEMENT, TO FORCE MIGRANT CHILDREN OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF THEIR PARENTS ARE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND THEY WERE UNDOCUMENTED, TO PUNISH THOSE FAMILIES BY KICKING THEIR KIDS OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL.

WELL, HOW COULD THAT POSSIBLY HAPPEN, YOU ASK?

WELL, HE EXPLAINED TO ME THAT ALL THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WOULD DO WAS SAY TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT THEY WOULD NO LONGER RECEIVE FUNDING FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION IF THEY WERE TEACHING UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

AND A LOT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO WITHOUT THE FEDERAL FUNDING THAT THEY NEED.

SO, THIS WOULD BE A WAY TO COERCE THEM TO KICK THESE INNOCENT CHILDREN OUT OF SCHOOL.

IN FACT, VENABLE SAID THE WHITE HOUSE WAS SO SERIOUS ABOUT THIS, HE CALLED IT, QUOTE, THE COCKROACH THAT WOULDN'T DIE.

AND THAT THEY RESISTED THE POLICY, BUT IN HIS VIEW, IN A SECOND TERM, THEY WOULD IMPLEMENT THAT POLICY.

AND ANOTHER ONE WAS ON LGBTQ ISSUES.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN IN FLORIDA HOW RON DeSANTIS AND HIS ADMINISTRATION IMPLEMENTED WHAT'S THE -- WHAT'S BEING REFERRED TO AT THE DON'T SAY GAY LAW, FORBIDDING TEACHERS FROM TALKING ABOUT SAME-SEX COUPLES, EVEN IF A STUDENT'S PARENTS ARE SAME-SEX COUPLE.

DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION OFFICIALS EXPLAINED TO ME THAT THAT POLICY WOULD BE FEDERALIZED ON A NATIONWIDE SCALE USING THE SAME TOOL.

SCHOOL DISTRICTS WOULD BE THREATENED, THEY WON'T GET FEDERAL FUNDS IF THEY DON'T IMPLEMENT DON'T SAY GAY POLICIES.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT A SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION COULD DO WITHOUT CONSULTING CONGRESS AT ALL, AND IT'S A REALLY CHILLING IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CULTURE WARS, IN MY VIEW.

>> LET'S GO BACK TO YOUR, KIND OF FIRST LIFE IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

PEOPLE WHO HAVE FOLLOWED YOU A LITTLE BIT MAY REMEMBER THAT YOU KIND OF OUTED YOURSELF AS ANONYMOUS.

YOU WROTE A PIECE, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THERE WERE OTHER CIVIL SERVANTS WHO WERE TRYING TO KEEP THE PRESIDENT, IN THEIR VIEW, FROM SORT OF ACTING ON HIS WORST IMPULSES, AND SORT OF VIOLATING THE LAW.

WHY WASN'T THAT ENOUGH?

BECAUSE IT CLEARLY WASN'T.

>> IT WASN'T ENOUGH, AND THIS WILL SOUND IRONIC, COMING FROM ME, MICHEL, BUT I LEARNED THROUGH LONG, HARD EXPERIENCE, THAT ANONYMITY NOT ONLY WAS UNHELPFUL, BUT IN A SENSE, IS A DANGER TO DEMOCRACY.

LET ME EXPLAIN WHAT I MEAN BY THAT.

AT FIRST, IT SEEMED TO WORK.

PUTTING THE MESSAGE OUT ANONYMOUSLY, BLOWING THE WHISTLE ANONYMOUSLY, DREW THE MESSAGE TO THE MESSAGE.

TRUMP FOUND A WAY TO DISTRACT ATTENTION, SO, BY ANONYMOUSLY BLOWING THE WHISTLE, I WANTED TO DEPRIVE HIM OF THAT OPPORTUNITY.

BUT EVEN THAT ENDED UP BEING SOMETHING THAT DONALD TRUMP WEAPONIZED TO SAY, SEE, I TOLD YOU SO, THERE'S A DEEP STATE INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT AND THEY'RE TRYING TO LAUNCH A COUP.

WHEN, IN REALITY, ALL ANYONE OF US WERE TRYING TO DO WAS KEEP THE PRESIDENT FROM DOING THINGS THAT WERE ILLEGAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL, BUT BECAUSE THAT FED HIS NARRATIVE, I FELT LIKE IT WAS IMPORTANT TO COME OUT IN MY OWN NAME, SO I COULD DETAIL IN VERY SPECIFIC FASHION WHAT MY ALLEGATIONS WERE.

MY BIG REGRET, THOUGH, MICHEL, IS THAT I DIDN'T DO IT SOONER.

BECAUSE TOO MY SURPRISE, AND TO MY DELIGHT, IN FACT, WHEN I DID COME FORWARD, A LOT OF MY PEERS CAME FORWARD, TOO.

AND I REALIZED BELATEDLY THAT WHAT MANY OF THEM NEEDED WAS SOMEONE TO STEP OUT THERE FIRST.

AND I WISH I HAD GIVEN THEM AIR COVER SOONER, AND I'D HAD MORE TIME TO RECRUIT MORE PEOPLE TO TURN AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, BECAUSE JOE BIDEN JUST BARELY BEAT DONALD TRUMP, AND THE EX-PRESIDENT HAS A VERY VIABLE PATH BACK TO THE WHITE HOUSE, IF THAT'S NOT DONE AGAIN.

>> AND I DO WANT TO MENTION THAT YOU PAID A HEAVY PERSONAL PRICE FOR THAT, AND I DO RECOGNIZE, AS YOU SAY IN THE BOOK, THAT YOU WANT YOUR FOCUS TO BE ON THE POLICIES AND THE FUTURE AND NOT YOU PERSONALLY, AND THE PAES.

BUT EVEN HAVING SAID THAT, YOU PAID A HEAVY PRICE FOR THAT, AND I -- DO YOU MIND SAYING ABOUT WHAT THAT WAS?

>> WHAT I WANTED TO SHOW FOLKS IS HOW BAD THE ENVIRONMENT'S GOTTEN.

AND AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE FORMER PRESIDENT, I DID LOSE MY HOME AND I WAS FORCED TO FLEE MY HOME.

I DID LOSE MY JOB IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

I DID LOSE A VERY SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP THAT I WAS IN AT THE TIME.

I HAD TO SPEND MY LIFE SAVINGS ON LAWYERS AND PROTECTION COSTS.

AND I ENDED UP ON ELECTION NIGHT 2020 IN A SAFE HOUSE UNDER ARMED GUARD WITH A PISTOL UNDER MY PILLOW, AND GRAB.

ING, QUITE FRANKLY, MICHEL, WITH ADDICTION ISSUES.

THE PRESSURE WAS SO INTENSE FROM THE THREATS ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM, FRANKLY, THAT I ENDED UP DOING SOMETHING THAT I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD DO.

I TOOK TO COPING BY DRINKING.

AND IN EXCESS.

TO THE POINT THAT IT ALMOST COST ME MY LIFE.

AND IN A SENSE, I THINK THAT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A WARNING AND A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR OUR DEMOCRACY, IS JUST LIKE ME IGNORING MY PERSONAL GUARDRAILS AS THE PRESSURE GOT WORSE, IF WE IGNORE OUR DEMOCRATIC GUARDRAILS, WE RISK SELF-DESTRUCTION.

BUT I ALSO WANTED TO TELL THOSE PERSONAL STORIES, BECAUSE EVEN IF I WAS PREPARED FOR THE VITRIOL, THE PUBLIC OFFICIALS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY WHO STAND UP FOR THE RIGHT THING, LOCAL POLL WORKERS, LOCAL LEADERS, ELECTION OFFICIALS THAT STOOD UP AGAINST EFFORTS TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION, MANY OF THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES WERE NOT PREPARED, AND IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE VERY AWARE OF, IS POLITICAL INTIMIDATION AND VIOLENCE RIGHT NOW IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SOARING.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS PROGRESSIVE OR AS LIBERALS WHO HAVE ENGAGED IN TERRIBLE CONDUCT, BUT THE REALITY OF IT IS, THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR IS VERY MUCH MUCH MORE ON THE RIGHT.

AND I JUST HAVE TO ASK YOU, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT I JOINED, AND I'M A LIFELONG CONSERVATIVE, WAS NOT LIKE DONALD TRUMP, IT JUST WASN'T.

IT WAS A VERY, VERY DIFFERENT PARTY, AND AS HE TOOK IT OVER, THE MISTAKE MANY OF US MADE WAS THINKING THAT HE WAS AN ABERRATION, AND THAT HIS CHARACTER DEFECTS, HIS PROCLIVITY TOWARDS VIOLENT RHETORIC, HIS BIGOTED VIEWS WOULD NOT IMPRINT THEMSELVES ON THE MOVEMENT.

YOU CAN LOOK AT THE DATA.

GOP VOTERS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY DURING THE TRUMP YEARS, AND THEY BECAME MUCH MORE AMENABLE TO DONALD TRUMP'S WORLD VIEW, AND THAT INCLUDES VIOLENCE AS A LEGITIMATE TOOL OF POLITICS.

>> AND NOW, YOU ALSO SAY, AND ACTUALLY, WE DON'T NEED YOU -- TO RELY ON YOU FOR THIS REPORTING.

WE'VE HEARD THE FORMER PRESIDENT SAY, I AM YOUR RETRIBUTION.

WE'VE HEARD HIM SAY THAT HE WOULD USE A SECOND TERM TO SEEK RETRIBUTION.

AND HE'S TELLING HIS SUPPORTER BASE, I'M GETTING INDICTED FOR YOU.

WOULD YOU JUST SAY MORE ABOUT THAT?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

AND WHAT DOES THAT FORE TELL?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WHILE I WAS WRITING "BLOW BACK," SOME OF THE TIME, I WAS WORRIED THAT READERS WOULD THINK IT WAS HYPER BOLLIC, BECAUSE WHAT X OFFICIALS PROJECTED FOR THE FUTURE WAS SO GRIM AND SO FOCUSED ON THE WEAPONIZATION OF THE GOVERNMENT, I WAS CONCERNED FOLKS MIGHT NOT BELIEVE IT.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, ONCE THIS BOOK WAS FINISHED AND TURNED IN AND BEING PUBLISHED, TRUE TO FORM, DONALD TRUMP SAID THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD AND HE CAME OUT AND MADE CLEAR THE THEME OF HIS CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN THAT A SECOND TERM WILL BE FOCUSED SOLELY ON REVENGE.

WHAT THIS BOOK DOES IS PROVIDE A ROAD MAP OF THAT RETRIBUTION.

IT GOES BELOW THAT TIP OF THE ICEBERG, BELOW THE WATER LINE, TO SPELL OUT EXACTLY HOW, IN A SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, OR THE MAGA WHITE HOUSE OF A COPYCAT, WOULD GO ABOUT THAT.

AND I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE THAT VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY.

SO, WHEN HE SAYS TO HIS SUPPORTERS, I AM YOUR LET TRY BUGS, WE ACTUALLY NEED TO HEAR THAT DONALD TRUMP WANTS THEM TO GIVE HIM A CHANGS TO EXACT REVENGE FOR HIS OWN PARTISAN PURPOSES, AND THAT'S NOT HOW TAXPAYERS, REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL AFFILIATION, WANT THEIR GOVERNMENT TO BE RUN AS A REVENGE MACHINE FOR ONE MAN.

>> AND YOU OFFER SOME SPECIFIC THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW THAT IS OVERCOME.

GIVE US SOME OF YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> WELL, IN THE SHORT-TERM, I WISH WE HAD SEEN CONGRESS PASS MORE LEGISLATION TO SAFEGUARD OUR INSTITUTIONS AFTER JOE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT.

NOW, BECAUSE OF POLARIZATION IN WASHINGTON, SOME OF THOSE REALLY GOOD BILLS THAT WERE INTRODUCED HAD NO CHANCE OF SUCCESS.

THINGS THAT WOULD FORT IF I FORTIFY INSPECTOR GENERALS, THINGS THAT WOULD MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO INSTALL POLITICAL HENCHMEN INTO REALLY IMPORTANT NONPARTISAN JOBS IN GOVERNMENT, SO, I'M AFRAID THAT WINDOW HAS PASSED, BUT WHAT WE STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO, IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS, IS ARREST DONALD TRUMP'S RISE IN THE PRIMARIES.

I DON'T LITERALLY MEAN ARREST HIM, THAT IS MAYBE SOMETHING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WILL END UP DOING YET AGAIN WITH ANOTHER INDICTMENT, BUT SEPARATELY, TO STOP HIS RISE IN THE PRIMARIES, AND I AM ENCOURAGED TO SEE SOME REPUBLICANS STARTING TO SPEAK UP VERY VOCALLY, CHRIS CHRISTIE, WILL HURD, ASA HUTCHINSON, IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHETHER THEY'RE THEIR EFFORTS TO EXPOSE WHO DONALD TRUMP REALLY IS WILL IMPACT REPUBLICAN VOTERS, BUT IN THE LONG RUN, I THINK ALL OF THIS RESTS ON EVERY DAY AMERICANS, BECAUSE I SAY IN THE BOOK, WHAT WE'VE FIGURED OUT IS THAT THE PRICE OF DESCENT IN THE UNITED STATES HAS BECOME VERY HIGH.

AND THE AVERAGE AMERICAN, THE MODERATE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, ARE SELF-CENSORING THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE NOT SPEAKING OUT AGAINST TRUMP, BECAUSE THEY'RE SCARED OF BEING ATTACKED IN THEIR COMMUNITIES BY MORE EXTREME -- PEOPLE WITH MORE EXTREME POLITICAL VIEWS.

WE'VE GOT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR US TO SHARE OUR OPINIONS AND OUR CONCERN, AND THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT, THE ONLY WAY TO LOWER THE PRICE, IS TO INCREASE THE SUPPLY.

WE'VE ALL EXPERIENCED IT.

YOU DON'T WANT TO UPSET THE MAGA GUY AT THE PICNIC.

IF YOU ENGAGE THAT CONVERSATION, YOU MIGHT CHANGE SOMEONE'S MIND, AND I THINK DEMOCRACY DEPENDS ON IT.

>> MILES TAYLOR, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, THE WOMEN'S WORLD CUP IS HEATING UP, AS THE TOP TEAMS BATTLE THEIR WAY THROUGH THE GROUP STAGES.

VIEWING FIGURES FOR THE TOURNAMENT SO FAR ARE SKY HIGH, AND MORE TEAMS THAN EVER ARE COMPETING.

SO, LET'S GET THE LATEST WITH THE PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE PITCH FOR TWO OF THIS YEAR'S FAVORITE TEAMS.

THE LEGENDARY AMERICAN FOOTBALLER AND WORLD CUP WINNER BRANDI CHASTAIN JOINS ME FROM SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA, AND WITH ME HERE IN OUR LONDON STUDIO FOR ENGLAND IS THE FORMER LIONESS LEE ANNE SANDERSON.

YOU ARE HERE WITH ME, LEANNE, AND YOU TOLD ME YOU PLAYED FOR AMERICAN TEAMS, AS WELL.

I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH, DO YOU FEEL THAT THE WOMEN'S WORLD CUP IS GETTING, YOU KNOW, ALL THE EXPOSURE, ALL THE GLORY THAT IT DESERVES, GIVEN THE SKY HIGH, YOU KNOW, VIEWING FIGURES AND THE TICKETS SOLD?

>> I WOULD SAY YES AND NO.

I'VE LIVED IN AMERICA FOR 12 YEARS, BRANDI IS ICONIC, BUT I THINK IN AMERICA, WHEN I FIRST MOVED THERE, THE PLAYERS ARE EMBRACED, THEY ARE LIKE ROCK STARS, ALEX MORGAN IS BIGGER THAN THE STATUE OF LIBERTY IN NEW YORK.

I THINK IN ENGLAND, IT CAN STILL GROW AND WE CAN LEARN A LOT FROM THE WAY THE AMERICANS EXPOSE THE PLAYERS.

>> AND BRANDI, YOU KNOW, I THINK -- AS LEANNE HAS REFERREDED TO, NOBODY IS GOING TO FORGET YOUR LAST MINUTE PENALTY-WINNING SHOT AT THE 199 WORLD CUP FINAL AND YOUR CELEBRATION.

YOUR PERSONALITY REALLY STAMPED WOMEN'S SOCCER ON PEOPLE'S CONSCIOUSNESS.

DO YOU THINK THIS WOMEN'S WORLD CUP IS GETTING ENOUGH EXPOSURE?

>> I WOULD SAY ANY COMPETITOR IS NEVER SATISFIED, CHRISTIANE.

THAT'S THE NATURE OF WHAT WE DO.

WE ALWAYS HAVE STRIVING FOR BETTER, AND I THINK WOMEN'S FOOTBALL IS AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH GLOBALLY.

THE FACT THAT WE HAVE 32 TEAMS, I'LL TAKE THE U.S. WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM FOR AN EXAMPLE, WE HAVE 14 PLAYERS THAT HAVE NEVER PLAYED IN A WORLD CUP BEFORE.

TO ME, THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT GROWTH.

BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW, AND LEANNE HAS EXPERIENCE IN DOMESTICALLY, THE NWSL.

WE WILL BE EXPANDING TO 14 TEAMS, MY TEAM IN THE BAY THAT I'M WEARING HERE WILL BE JOINING IN 2024, SO, WE HAVE GROWTH HAPPENING.

WE ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE FACT THAT THE PURSE FOR THE WOMEN'S WORLD CUP IS GROSSLY UNDER WHAT THE MEN'S IS.

AND SO, WE HAVE A LOT OF WAYS TO STILL TRAVEL, BUT I BELIEVE SINCE 1999, WE HAVE CERTAINLY MADE SOME INROADS.

WHAT I DO BELIEVE, HOWEVER, IS THAT WOMEN'S FOOTBALL AND THE WOMEN WHO ARE IN IT, IS THE DEEPEST, RICHEST WELL OF TALENT THAT HAS BEEN UNTAPPED AND NOW SPONSORS, TELEVISION RIGHTS, YOU KNOW, THINGS TO THIS NATURE ARE SEEING THE LIGHT.

AND SO, I'M VERY THRILLED THAT THIS IS THE BEST TIME TO -- ANY TIME TO BE APART OF WOMEN'S FOOTBALL.

>> JUST BRIEFLY, WHILE I STILL HAVE YOU, THE LAST WOMEN'S WORLD CUP, THE U.S.

TEAM WAS, YOU KNOW, EMBROILED IN AN EQUAL PAY DISPUTE, AND NOW, YOU HAVE SECURED EQUAL PAY, SO MANY OFCOLLEAGUES HAVE FOUGHT THE GOOD FIGHT.

IS THAT DONE AND DUSTED?

>> THAT WAS JUST NOT JUST ONE TEAM'S BATTLE.

THAT WAS A FOUR-DECADE ENDEAVOR, AND THAT NATIONAL TEAM WERE THE ONES TO PUT IT OVER THE LINE.

AND YES, FOR U.S. SOCCER, WE DO HAVE A WONDERFUL CBA THAT HAS BEEN SIGNED, OUR PRESIDENT, WHO WAS A TEAMMATE OF MINE ON THE WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM, IS LEADING THE CHARGE, AS WELL, AND I THINK U.S. SOCCER HAS ALWAYS BEEN ON THE WOMEN'S LEVEL A GLOBAL EXAMPLE OF WHAT COULD HAPPEN.

AND SO, I THINK THIS IS A BIG STEP FOR US, BUT IT'S A MINOR STEP IN THE BIGGER PICTURE OF THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO ACHIEVE.

>> SO, LET ME TURN TO YOU THEN, LEANNE.

ARE THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO ACHIEVE, WHETHER IT'S ON THE FOOTBALL PITCH, OR AROUND CONCERNING, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE LIVES OF PEOPLE, YOU'RE THE FIRST OPENLY GAY FEMALE TO PLAY FOR BRITAIN, AND TO DECLARE HERSELF AS SUCH.

AND -- HAS THAT ISSUE -- IS IT RESOLVED?

ARE THERE STILL ISSUES THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE FEMALE PLAYERS FIND?

WE HEAR ABOUT, YOU KNOW, QUITE A FEW ABUSE ACCUSATIONS AND CHALLENGES THAT MANY OF THE PLAYERS STILL HAVE TO FACE.

>> YEAH, THEY DO.

AND I THINK THANKFULLY, BRANDI TOUCHED UPON IT THERE, IT'S TAKEN DECADES FOR THECBA TO AGREE WITH.

ENGLAND IS STILL TRYING TO GET EQUAL PAY.

SPEAKING FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, I WANT TO SEE, YOU KNOW, BEING THE FIRST SOMETIMES DOES COME WITH ITS RESTRICTIONS, AS WELL, BECAUSE THAT JUST BECOMES MY FOOTBALLER THAT HAPPENS TO BE GAY, I'M NOT THE GAY FOOTBALLER, AND EVERY TEAM I SIGN FOR THAT WAS THE THING THEY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, AND I'M LIKE, ACTUALLY, I'VE WON THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, I PLAYED IN TWO WORLD CUPS, LET'S TALK ABOUT MY GOAL SCORING AND ALL THE THINGS I'VE DONE.

SO, I'M GRATEFUL I WAS THE FIRST, AND I HAVEN'T BEEN THE LAST, WE'VE SEEN OTHER PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, FOLLOW THROUGH AND IN THE MEN'S GAME, AS WELL, AND WE'LL SEEPLAYERS.

IT'S ALL ABOUT BEING COMFORTABLE WITH WHO YOU ARE.

I'M HAPPY THEY'VE STUCK TOIG, BECAUSE I THINK WHEN I PLAYED THERE, I SPOKE OUT AND IT WAS ALMOST SEEN AS A TABOO, OR, YOU'RE LIKE A TROUBLEMAKER FOR SPEAKING OUT.

BUT I JUST WANTED IT FOR THE GREATER GOOD.

I'VE SAID THAT MANY TIMES BEFORE.

LIVING IN AMERICA, I GOT TO A PLACE WHERE I FELT LIKE I WAS EMBRACED TO BE MYSELF AND THE INDIVIDUALALTY.

AND THAT'S WHY THEY WIN ALL THE TIME.

NOT DURING THIS WORLD CUP, BUT THAT'S WHY THEY WIN.

THE OLYMPICS, THEY ARE ALWAYS THE GOLD MEDALISTS, THEY ARE, IT'S NOT A COINCIDENCE.

>> SO, LISTEN, YOU KNOW, FURTHERING THAT THEME, WOMEN CERTAINLY IN THE UNITED STATES, WOMEN'S SOCCER HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN SO MUCH MORE POPULAR AND MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN MEN'S SOCCER.

FOOTBALL.

NOW, YOU HAVE THE GLOBAL MALE CHAMPION, YOU KNOW, LIONEL MESSI, WHO SIGNED UP WITH INTER MIAMI.

I'M JUST GOING TO READ YOU THE MOST CRAZY STATISTIC EVER.

APPARENTLY, THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA HAS GONE UP FROM 1 MILLION TO 12 MILLION SINCE MESSI JOINED.

AND, OF COURSE, THEIR OWNERS ARE PREDICTING MASSIVE REVENUES TO OVER $100 MILLION.

MY QUESTION TO YOU BOTH IS, HERE WE GO AGAIN?

YOU KNOW, COULD AMERICAN SOCCER, WOMEN'S SOCCER, SUDDENLY SORT OF FALL BACKWARDS UNDER THE SHADOW OF MEN'S SOCCER POWERED BY MESSI?

>> I PEARL LYPERSONALLY DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK THESE PLAYERS ARE LIKE ROCK STARS.

THOUGH I'M ENGLISH, I LOVE THE U.S. WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM.

I THINK IT'S BRILLIANT THAT MESSI'S GONE OVER, I LOVE RONALDO, I STILL RESPECT MESSI, YOU KNOW, SCORING IN HIS FIRST GAME AND WHAT DAVID BECKHAM IS DOING, AS WELL, AGAIN, THE SAME AS WHAT HE DID WITH THE GALAXY, IS TREMENDOUS.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY.

IF ANYTHING, IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT BETTER.

I'M GOING TO MAKE MY WAY TO THE GAMES.

>> AND BRANDI, ARE THEY ALLIES IN THIS, YOU KNOW, IN THE FIGHT HERE?

>> WELL, I'D HAVE TO SAY FOR A LONG TIME, WOMEN'S SOCCER WAS LEADING THE CHARGE, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS ALWAYS THE QUESTION, WHY ISN'T THE MEN'S NATIONAL TEAM AS GOOD AS THE WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM, AND, YOU KNOW, TELLING THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL HERE IN AMERICA IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE LUXURY HERE TO HAVE A LAW ENACTED IN 1972 CALLED TITLE IX THAT SUPPORTED EDUCATION BILLS THAT -- AND SPORT HAPPENED TO FALL UNDERNEATH THAT.

SO, WOMEN REALLY BENEFITTED FROM THAT, AND, YOU KNOW, THOUGH EVERYBODY WASN'T IN COMPLIANCE INITIALLY, NOW WE HAD A CHANCE TO COME TOGETHER AS A NATIONAL TEAM, AND SO, WHERE AS OUR MEN WERE KIND OF BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL BECAUSE OF ALL THE HISTORICALLY AMERICAN-TYPE SPORTS, SOCCER NOW COLLECTIVELY HAS A CHANCE.

AND THE FACT THAT A PLAYER LIKE MESSI, WHO I LEAVE, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT 12 MILLION DOES 12 MILLION WAS A LOW NUMBER, WILL ENHANCE THE AMOUNT OF EYES THAT WILL BE ON SOCCER IN AMERICA.

>> ON THAT NOTE.

>> I THINK THAT'S GOOD FOR BOTH OF US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, BRANDI, LEANNE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I DIDN'T GET PREDICTIONS OUT OF YOU, BUT NEXT TIME.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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