Welcome back to your OTR.

Our Guest this week is Genesee County Sheriff.

Chris Swanson, tried to create a state registry to bird dog animal abusers.

Our lead Story, the battle for control of the Michigan house.

Heats up in the governor goes full Barbie.

On the OTR panel this week, Kyle Melinn, Emily Lawler, and Simon Schuster sit in with us as we get the inside out off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in part by Martin Waymire.

A full-service strategic Communications, agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at Martinwaymire.com and now this edition of off the record with Tim skubick, thank you very much.

Welcome to Studio C on this Friday morning.

You'll Pure Michigan morning.

Well, we've got lots going on in the battle for control of the house is 15 months away and here we go.

Go with the two sides going at it.

With the Democrats holding a precariously thin margin of two votes in the Michigan house to control that body.

The Republicans have already started to recall or at least attempt to recall a number of Democrats.

But the Democratic speaker, Joe Tate and his team is fighting back by now, running commercials in six districts where Republicans were elected by a small number of votes and the commercials focus on those Republicans.

Who had a chance to spend ninety seven hundred dollars for every school kid in the state, but they chose to vote.

No on same.

The targeted lawmakers include from Jackson representative, Kathy Schmaltz representative Donnie Steele, from Oakland County representative.

Jim to say, 'no, representative Alice Saint-Germain representative David Martin and representative, Tom Coon political pundit, Bill Ballenger concedes it's always a dicey vote, not to support money for school kids.

However, he adds this I think they're mistaken in that it's going to have the impact their thinking, and hoping it will be.

It's too early and he things to Target.

It Republicans will explain away their no vote.

By pointing out to the fact that many of the pork projects in the budget were for Democratic districts.

Money that could have gone to students.

I think the Republican state represented the will stay that and they have said it already.

They think it is larded with pork.

That is not a responsible way for the Slater to spend money on school aid.

And also the Republicans point out.

They barely had a chance to even read the bill that everybody in town.

Knew that eventually there would be a fight over control of the Michigan house.

And now both parties are proving that it's coming sooner than expected more than a year away from the actual election.

So Emily does, is anybody paying attention to this thing?

Besides the four of us sitting around the table and then 148 people downtown, hey everyone who saw that piece?

Tim yes all three of them.

No.

I mean I think that obviously like there is an approach where the house could be working together with such a tight margin where they could take a bipartisan approach.

But that's really not how people are viewing it.

I mean house elections happen.

Every two years, it throws us into a pretty much endless cycle, frankly, and there are just a few factors that could upend things, you've got these recalls pending, although I'll say the threshold for a recall is so high that I don't think anyone's made it since they re change that law.

And then you've got got things like the two Democrats running for mayor where you know, Democrats could not have a majority.

If both of those candidates win for a brief period of time before they call special elections.

But I think a lot of people are looking at the house and saying, is this a democratic house, you know, for the next couple Cycles or is it a democratic house until Republicans take it next cycle speakers nervous.

I don't know if he should be though if you take a look at the recalls are silly, if you look at it historically I mean we took a look back to 2006 when Leandra Drolet kind of Started this whole like recall thing about with the tax increases of 2007, we counted seventy some recall attempts against legislators 70 that that we could find.

It could be up to 80.

Only two of them, made the ballot.

Only one was successful and that was before they try.

They amended the recall ought to make it almost impossible to do.

The recalls are a distraction.

I'm not quite convinced.

The Republicans are the Republicans.

The House.

Republicans are behind it.

I think the gun activist groups who threatened it before when gun control was front and center, they're probably behind it.

But they have the organization organizational support.

Should they actually had organizational support up in Traverse City?

When they tried to get Larry Inman?

They actually had an organization actually had money and they couldn't do it.

So if they can't do it I think it's a distraction.

If the Tate's nervous I'd be surprised.

Yeah, I mean I think that the level of infrastructure and money and you know your body's that you need to spin up in such a short period of time.

Makes this particularly difficult.

And we haven't seen any evidence from the folks attempting to organize these recalls, that they're actually going to do that.

Well, if it turns out that they can put their act together, it could cost the Democrats, some money to protect these seats.

Will you concede that?

Not because what it does is it creates a completely new campaign cycle.

So people like Betsy kawhia, they can just start raising money immediately and she's already a fundraising machine.

So so instead of actually putting them on the defensive, you actually allow them to be able to raise more money than they.

Would otherwise it's just a silly idea.

Well, what about the commercials know they say these six Republicans had a chance to help the school kids and they didn't, you know, I think it's a really, really far out from an actual vote on those six Republicans, for those commercials to have much of an impact.

Perhaps there's something was Ballinger's right, Mr. Ballinger is occasionally right on this program and others.

But yea though I really do think that it's a little bit far out to view that as like a direct impact on elections that are happening.

Seeing you here.

Now, I don't know if I entirely agree with that only because State Legislative elections are generally pretty low information.

Elections, people are often going with the top of the ticket.

I mean, the trajectory right now is that we're going into a presidential election year with a candidates that are likely to be on the top of the ticket are roundly disliked by the majority of voters.

And so, I don't necessarily see a way of easily countering this message unless you have the money to do.

So.

And right now, Republicans haven't demonstrated that they can counter the money that's right now being spent by an administrative account by the A party but doesn't have any disclosure.

We don't know how much money they've got.

You can counter the message.

Let's not forget, there'll be another budget by the time.

We're headed into next year's primary.

So you know if Republicans vote for record education that budget.

That's the talking point, not the one that happened a year ago.

I actually agree with Simon though because the Republicans are not in a position to respond in any way.

These Facebook ads are being put out by the Michigan Democratic party, which actually has an infrastructure in is actually raising money, the Michigan.

Republican party, can't even raise money to put together their conference that they're supposed to have up on Mackinac Island.

They've got way bigger problems than this.

So the Democrats can basically just go and swing away, it doesn't really matter because the Republicans can't defend, and if they are going to defend, then they would be taking money away from their own house, Republican fund, which is usually just reserved for election year activities.

So it's actually causing maybe the Republicans either respond with money that they really don't want to spend or not respond at all.

Let's talk, let's talk about money.

Certainly, I mean we I think the headline, you know, coming away from this is sort of an unexpected one or perhaps quite expected, which is that Republican caucus packs out, razor Democratic counterparts, despite being the minority, at the same time Democratic campaigns far out, raise their Republican counterparts because they're the party in the majority and you could see lobbyists and special interest money.

How you can have it both ways there.

Yeah, certainly there's a singular pack that represents each party's caucus in each chamber.

And these are really important because in competitive swing districts, these packs are able to spend unlimited amounts of In general elections directly coordinating with their candidates.

And so, they're really powerful the Democrats sitting pretty, I think they're doing pretty well right now and I agree that the house Republican at large committee raised more than the Democrats, but the individual Democratic members are doing very well.

People like Betsy Kofi, who I mentioned, Carol Glanville, Jamie churches, Fitzgerald and West Michigan.

I mean, they're all raising a lot of money.

Matt Hall.

The house leaders raised a lot of money, but you take a look at the people who are who just showed in that.

That piece right there.

They're not raising the same amount of money as their, they're politically competitive Democratic colleagues.

And Joe Tate is doing very well with his PACs and you take a look at his own personal political action, committee.

Something that Jason Wentworth was good at Lee Chatfield was good at and the Republicans just aren't, I gotta say like infrastructure wide when you're looking at these fundraising numbers.

One question that comes up for me as you know, there are record breaking numbers going to for instance the house Republican caucus.

PAC the Senate Republicans out raised as well, but I wonder how much of that is money.

That's being diverted from people who typically, would have donated to the Republican party and look at it and say, maybe that's not the infrastructure.

I want to invest in right now.

We don't know that those reports don't come out until a little bit later.

I think there's two important points here to go off with Emily was saying one, is that what's interesting to me is that, although these large-scale donors have largely fled from the Michigan, Republican party, typically forming the Bedrock of that parties fundraising.

It's basically business as usual for Republican caucus PACs.

But these people can only donate once a year, they don't have it, you know, they're hitting contribution limits and so there is somewhat of a ceiling for these caucus PACs.

At the same time we've seen you know time and time again that these administrative accounts from the individual parties have operated as the attack dogs in legislative elections hitting the other party hard with you know pretty aggressive ads.

And if Republicans can't raise the money to sort of rebut them, this is on the order of millions of dollars that Democrats will have at their disposal to attack.

Republican legislators heading into the 2024 that we won't see from a public eye.

So my Little bride.

And I were watching TV, last Saturday morning.

We have no life.

And onto comes to CNN, and there's a commercial, not a commercial, there's a story about what's going on and who shows up at the bottom?

This, but Governor Gretchen Whitmer disguised as Barbie and I, so why do they do that?

The communications team at the governor's office has had a great year so far.

You a great year as far as getting the governor out in national press in very real relatable.

Well, and good terms, some of the coverage that she's gotten.

You just can't buy them dinner.

Jack of all of the governor's that we've seen in recent years, if you piled all of those governors together, they don't even come close to the National media attention.

This Governor has gotten, oh, and it even just in the last six months.

I mean, the feature stories are just from from from her standpoint are great.

Vanity Fair, New York Times, New Yorker, romantic gesture, that New Yorker thing went on and on.

On and on it was 6,000 words.

There's like a novella they took her from the time.

She was born until right up to here.

It was incredible.

Unbelievable.

And yeah, I just the positive press is something else.

Obviously, waiting in the wings, just in case something happens to Joe Biden, she could step right into a presidential race.

And even if things work out well for him, she's ready to go in 28, if need be, I mean she's just setting the groundwork and the the messaging is fantastic.

I'm going to see Barbie tonight, you May have noticed, I'm wearing all pink but I do think that you know the governor's digital team is the younger side.

I think they're keeping on top of these Trends.

You know, you saw things like her, putting out the video welcoming Taylor Swift to town, you saw her.

I think tweeting about Beyonce coming.

Barbie does not surprise me.

If only because the governor likes to have a little bit of fun, and I think when your digital team comes to you, with something really fun, she's going to be good.

She said it was hilarious.

Did you think it was hilarious?

And I thought it was very endearing, right?

It's something.

That's charming and they're very this morning.

I think that, you know, they're really capitalizing on the cultural moment and this is something that I think speaks to the decline of Legacy Media.

Like the folks at this table because of social media, they're able to communicate directly with voters, and it doesn't have to be anything substantive, they can, you know, tie in a little bit of their what they see is policy accomplishments here and there, but really all they have to do is something that's, you know, engaging.

And people find entertaining and Taps into these cultural moments.

And then, you know, like, See media folks like us are sort of forced to cover it because it gave you become so widely popular on the internet.

Why do we bite on this all the time?

Because it's shark week baby.

That's why we bike because it's shark week and she's just so relatable and that's why she comes across this.

Genuine this doesn't look contrived.

It doesn't, look manufactured, it looks real.

And so we love the real in the media, we love it.

All right, let's see what king got on the real guy.

Who's our guest.

The sheriff Genesee County Mr. Sheriff Sheriff.

Welcome to off the Record.

It's good to see you.

Nice to have you on board.

Thank you.

Let's cut to the chase.

You want to go after people that are abusing animals.

You talked about a petition drive there has been crickets on the petition driver.

You working the legislature to get lawmakers to do the heavy lift, so you don't have to do the petition Drive.

Wow, they're certainly not crickets.

It's It's what people don't see is what you might be talking about.

This has been a 13-month journey for me and it being a law-enforcement as long as I've been in and talking to people that are in law enforcement.

When you directly connect, animal abuse neglect of torture to what happens when people do that without any accountability.

There's a six out of ten shot, they're going to do it to an actual vulnerable person.

Child somebody, that's addicted and elderly and so we're pushing this.

There's two ways to do it.

You can do a ballot initiative or the legislative process.

So we're kind of doing both well, your work at the legislature.

Pretty hard because you don't want to spend the money in time to do a petition Drive.

Well, I'd rather spend the money on marketing, the messaging than trying to get signatures.

It just makes sense financially.

So you can, somebody do introduce the bills.

We have a lot of interest on both sides, and this is the name names.

Well, for their sake.

I'm going to tell you we've got both house and Leaders, both majority and minorities.

They both loved it.

Did you know Winnie Brinks was raised on a farm?

Yes, yes.

Yes.

And Mark Brewer has a pet goldfish.

Yes.

And so when you look at three boards, there you go.

When you look at you know, Mark Brewer who is such a voice in Lansing on both sides and he sees the logic and the path to get there, we're going to get there and the voters are going to be able to endorse this movement of creating a registry for people that abuse neglect torture and beat animals to death.

You've given up your right.

To own another animal for a period of time and then close that civil process loophole.

Where right now, if we take animals off the street, if the owner doesn't give up ownership, they stuck in animal control's and Humane Societies for up to two years plus.

We're going to shorten it down to 22 days and get them rehomed.

Sheriff, what do you got as far as money and organization because you need both of those in order to launch some kind of Drive?

Where are you getting those from?

Well, the organization is built.

We've got people from all over the state and the country.

For example, we Have you know, our civil lawyer that comes from Oakland County?

That used to be from Genesee County, Brooke Tucker.

She's a phenomenal student of law.

She wrote The Language, she wrote all the language in Genesee County.

When she was there, of course, having Jim Kurtz, traumas are public relations director.

We have a Lena Clark who works for the Attorney General's office.

Now, these are not part of their official duties, but that's the kind of talent we have.

You know, we have people on there from Michigan Pain Alliance.

They have a vested interest in their part of the committee and then, of course, the Michigan Humane.

The animal control's, the MSA the sheriff's, there's there's nobody in this field whether you take care of animals, whether you're a breeder, whether you rescue on a Sunday afternoon in the middle of winter, they see that this is a real topic and then you look what happened yesterday.

Starting in Oakland County during the Oxford.

Shooting Ethan crumbly killed innocent animals before he killed people.

How do you make that connection?

You've decided a statistic about people who hurt animals going on to hurt people.

Have you seen cases of that?

Absolutely, I give you a per first of all, Time Magazine did a great article in August of 2022, Mark Levine.

I encourage you to check it out.

There is a great call for accountability and this is a national reporter.

A freelance reporter.

This says, you know, every judge can, you know, have their own subjective sentence.

The laws are not really substantial when it comes to the amount of penalties.

But what about the accountability piece?

So we have a national push to it that me look at of six out of ten active Shooters.

They Torture animals before they kill people, Parkland, Uvalde, and of course Oxford.

When you look at what's happening here in Michigan, you see that Direct Connect?

Then we had our own personal case which is really kind of the this the the Catalyst for this, you know, and on an Easter Sunday morning in 2022.

Just last year, a guy and a girl were dating.

She went to go, get breakfast, came back.

He didn't like what she got.

They got to do domestic.

He pulled out a gun.

He raped her as he got done raped her.

She jumped out of the window with her dog running down the street.

Even the whole thing, he chases her down shoots and kills the dog, drags her back and continues.

The physical assault, neighbor, digs a shallow, grave berries.

The dog we go on the investigative Manhunt.

We exhumed the the corpse we do a necropsy, we arrest the individual days later.

We give her the, The Voice she had the protection.

There's a direct connect months later.

Same neighborhood gentleman thinks that his neighbor set him up on a domestic.

He goes over to take revenge.

She's Out there, the ring cameras there sees the three and a half year old puppy on a chain.

Just minding their business takes out a screwdriver and stabs It 33 times kills, it comes back an hour later, try to kill her, there's the direct connect.

Simon.

I'm curious, do you think that there should be a pathway for people who abuse animals to get off of this registry?

And then also another thing I'm curious about is, do you believe that people who, you know, are dealing in the pet trade either, from Humane Societies to, you know, professional dog breeders?

Should they have to consult this registry before they make a transaction?

A great questions.

The pathway is is already built in.

There's a misdemeanor felony, multiple felonies, or habitual offender penalty.

So there is a natural progression to get off the list once you're on.

And really, it's a list that anybody can access.

It's different than Logan's laws different than the sex offender registry.

It doesn't restrict where they can live, where they can, they can do their own personal business, but they just can't go and get another animal.

Would you have a crush video cases that we've had where they buy 30 40 innocent companion?

Animals and they use them to kill and monetize.

We just had the case last year, they can go into pet supply stores and now Pet Supply can actually just build a protocol and say anybody comes in and buys animals, we're just going to check and it's not a punitive decision.

If you check or don't check, it's an opportunity for you to check and hold people accountable.

Then, you have the autonomy to say, you know what, we're not going to sell you an animal.

We're not going to, we're not going to work with you because you did this in, you know, this County.

You've moved over here.

Been convicted of running a puppy mill over here.

You're not going to do it in our County.

We saw that up in Grand Traverse County, there is a prior conviction up a grand traverse, the sheriff raided, and you had over 100 dogs, some were dead, some were sleeping on others.

And that same individual got convicted, on the west side of the state.

Let's talk politics.

If there's a Democratic primary for governor, could you beat Mike Duggan or Joslynne Benson?

Why you are so good.

You know, I obviously my focus of this year's smiling because I had this love this game.

I just love this environment.

I love, you know, that the talent at this table is exciting and she's so question on the table defense attorney.

You know, again we've had this conversation.

You and I personally for two years there's some great talent that when that seat opens up in 26, I think you're going to see a lot of people say I can leave the state post Gretchen Whitmer.

She's done a great job in one of those could be Mike Duggan.

And one of them could be you.

Could.

Why don't you just say you want to do it because Actually, there's a progression, you know, you have the sheriff race in 2024, I love my County, I love my community.

It's my second election.

The pet registry that we're looking at, is a 2024 ballot initiative in November.

That takes a lot of focus.

But as I said before, you know, I if what we're doing with ghost our human trafficking enforcement team, we just finished our 52nd County.

We've worked with what press Q, aisle arrested, two individuals, the ignite model that we have for Corrections, it's changing the way we do business and Corrections, of course the pet registry.

There's a Out of Statewide initiatives that could play across the state.

So there's at least a 50-50 chance you will run.

There's you know what?

Tell you that?

I'll answer it this way.

I never turn down opportunities if it could help people because it's, it's something that has always driven me as a police officer as a public servant in every rank that I've had.

And as the sheriff, you know, going on my finish in my fourth year, I've seen what people desire, they want somebody to protect serve and unify.

Somebody relatable, you just talked about the Gretchen Whitmer, Barbie commercial.

That's I have such a public Persona is because I tell people without restriction without edit who I am, what I stand for and I show them the Human Side.

Sheriff, if I'm curious what you're seeing in terms of crime in Genesee County, a lot of times Flint gets a bad rap because of crime.

Are you seeing any Trends?

One way or the other or anything different going on in that front?

Absolutely, we did a model of policing in July 1st of last year called Operation Arrowhead it.

If you look at any downtown area You of any City even Across America.

That is usually the Hub of the county.

Detroit hubba Wayne Grand Rapids ahava.

Can't Flint The Hub of Genesee.

We had in one weekend prior to us, taking a different approach for shootings, one homicide four, point eight miles, the red bricks.

If you ever come down to Flint, well I had five individuals that were funded by The Mott Foundation and the county, and we put five of the best personalities there to do problem solving policing.

Don't just treat symptoms have been a medic since I was 20 when I have somebody that's got Possible system, failure, or trauma, you triage what you can do and then you go and you can rehab the patient.

So when someone gets arrested for domestic or larceny, why do they do that?

They're mentally ill.

They have no shoes.

They have no refrigerator full of food for the kids.

So these officers, they go back and fix that problem.

We've had one shooting in the last calendar year that four point eight miles crime has drastically reduced.

You can go talk to the business owners.

Don't listen to a word.

I say, just watch what we've done.

The downtown vibe.

I've is completely transformed.

They just re-upped the, the, the funding for another entire year.

That's how you transition from normal policing, traditional policing.

to police Evolution.

We were talking about Gretchen Whitmer, getting some national press.

You got national press yourself and 2020 in the wake of the George Floyd protests and you were pretty passionate at that time.

About sort of changing the relationship between police and the community, what kind of progress have you seen?

And how do you measure progress in that regard?

I love it.

My answer your second question first.

First and you measure progress in our world by how people feel like, listen to the people.

I love, you know, stats, I love data but you go to the street and that's where you get the true sense of, are you making a difference?

Because perception is reality.

and to get back to what happened on May 30th, 2020 was the right thing to do and that was one of 40 protests that entire year where people expected Flint because of water, and crime, and poverty, to be what everybody else thought they would be.

And we transitioned, we didn't have a Arrest.

Nobody was injured.

No buildings were splashed, no boards are broke, but that was a moment of what I've been my whole life in the people expected more.

And so that's what started, the ignite, our education model that's what started our County ambassador program who I met you met this morning.

Our returning citizens that are full time employees.

John Allen did 29 years in prison for murder and he's full time employee for me a deputy sheriff because when he transitioned out he's not the same as he was when he came in that speaks volume into people.

And you have to show by your actions.

What your were just say when I was hanging out at Target parking lot, I made a declaration, you know, my dad, my grandpa, both the Detroit Riots '67 '45.

I said, you know, I can't change everything.

I'm not going to do nothing, but I'm gonna do my part and that's what we do.

It's everything, it's our, it's our Christmas Spectacular.

It's, you know, doing things like depths with dogs and it's the protection side.

The service side, the unify side.

And those three words are on all three sides of every patrol car in the Sheriff's office at Genesee County.

It's a constant, reminder.

And that's how I judge it.

We do have time, right?

Pardon, you'll stay for overtime.

I'll stay all day.

Simon, you quick one.

I'm curious is Tim has extracted from you.

You're someone who's at least mulling Statewide leadership, Democrats have Trifecta control of state government right.

Now, what do you believe they need to do to maintain that control?

Well, they need to keep building relationships because the people are going to decide the control.

Ultimately, and I found this, when you try to force something, there could be a reaction that you Normally get.

And when you look at Genesee County, we're very Democratic and I was to get, I was able to get the largest crossover, vote County history.

And when you do that, now everybody even if they have a different party, they're all walking in the same direction.

You get a lot more done.

I think if if they continue to work with our opposition on both sides and instead of creating division, that's what people want.

I think the average person not only in the state but around the country you obviously have you know, far rights and laughs but the majority of people like listen, I'm gonna Party of leave me alone, you know, I really just want to do my thing.

Take care of my family, take care of my my business and I'm tired of the fight and I got it interrupts.

Yeah, they hold that slot.

Stay in that seat.

Don't go out.

Where if you stay around to go to WKAR.org for our overtime segment with the sheriff.

Watch these closing credits and see you on the other side.

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